Why it's Bad to Smite Evil

[UR Leader Hobbes]

Ok the guy running our gaming group sprung this on us this last weekend.. Here is the build up..

We were aproaching a medium sized town which was down in a valley.. It was a kinda dark night and it had just started to rain.. Through the occasional flash of lightning we could see a keep off in the distance. (We were on a mission to deliver a letter to the baron of the keep)

As we neared the town the road narrowed a bit and the woods grew a bit more dense. We were ambushed by werewolves on the way in.. Fortunately we were able to defeat them.(Mages and the fire warlock were big helps!)

As we aproached the town it appared that the militia was getting ready to march out.. (They saw the fires and magic fight upon the distant hill and weren't sure what was going on.) We explained the situation and they decided that it was ultimately a false alarm. A couple of characters opted to talk with the capitan of the militia and he said that attacks outside of the town were not unheard of. Another person said to another party member "This town is cursed."

We checked into the local inn (The Rusy Nail) and sat down. A couple of players went to run a couple of quick errands in the town. (Find a blacksmith, fletcher, etc) Most of the people were fairly decent..

Back at teh inn one patron was quiet with a hood over his head and sitting alone.. A couple of players took note of him and one even aproached him. Turns out he's a priest of one of the temples in teh town. He was rather unfriendly and actually warned the player to leave teh town soon. From the simbols he wore it was determined that he was a priest of an evil deity.

A couple of other characters return from running errands. They joined us and we started chatting about the events and the town.. When teh inn keeper was asked what chruches were established here in the city he denoted that there were two. Both of evil gods.

After a couple of ales we concluded that the two chruches must be behind the towns woes. Otherwise the townsfolk wouldn't have said something to teh effet that the place is cursed. There also more than likely wouldn't be any werecreatures running about the woods.. The party begins to debate weather or not we should get involved. (We were just passing through.)At this point the paladin in the group takes it upon himself to smite the priest sitting in the inn. (Natural 20 and takes the guys head off)

At this the people in the inn flee. (nobody wants to have ale in a room with the armored killing machine.) Deciding it's better to not wait about for the dead priest buddies to come after us we opt to go on the offensive.. (Meaning we went to teh church and slew everyone in it. Also summoned up an elemental to destroy the building itself.)

Once that was done we decided that while we were at it we might as well go and take out the other evil church as well. (The line of thought being that without a rival evil church in the town to check the remaning chruch; the priests could simply have there way in the community.. Thus it would be better off for the people to take them out as well.)

Long story short we slew all the priests (Save for one who made an escape) and the elemental rendered that building to a burning piece of rubble as well..

Seems good right.. Two less evils in the world.. A job well done right..

The next day we deliver the message to the barron.. (WHole point of us making our way through this town) Turns out that the chruches were bulit atop gates to Dyval and those gates were sealed.. The Baron believes that the churches were maintaining the seals and that without the seals sooner or later the unholy forces from Dyval will manage to find their way into the world..

Turns out he didn't tell the townsfolk and it was a well kept secret between him and the chruches.. (I mean really who's gonna move into an area that has the potential for demonic infestation?)

Not having anyone in the group that can actually do anything we sent messages to priests of other churches and a couple of good mages that we've encountered in the past..

But all in all it looks like we smited a couple of necessary evils..

Anyone ever run into something similar?

[Veknironth]

Well, I'll add to this. Not only should the Baron have had them arrested, but any other do-gooders in the area would come looking for the group who:

1. Killed a man in cold blood because of his clothing in a public place.
2. Killed every member of that man's Church.
3. Killed every member but one of the other church in the town.
4. Unleashed an elemental on 2 structures, reducing them to rubble.

Also, unless either church was local, word of one the local branches being utterly destroyed and all of its clergymen being ruthlessly slaughtered would reach the home office. This would usually result in some sort of retribution. This is assuming the deities involved don't take notice.

Last, who attended these churches. From what I understand, there were only 2 churches in the town. Unless they are all aetheists, then I presume the majority of the townspeople were the congregation. How happy are they going to be?

-Vek
"Who are the evil people in this story?"

[The Dark Elf]

I hope for your sake they were both cults of Old Ones or as the others said You are all dead men!

I wait for the sequel when you lot fly some suicidal dragons into the towers of the citadel!!

[UR Leader Hobbes]

So what you basically did was MURDER several upright and law-abiding citizens simply because they where of a different religion then you? Am I right on that? Because last I checked, the Church of Darkness, as well as evil deities of several other pantheons are all LEGAL and ACCEPTIBLE deities to worship. As the Baron had a deal with them, and they where operating in the open, it stands to reason they weren’t underground or illegal.

Every single one of those characters should be sitting in the barons dungeon, waiting for the clergy of the 2 faiths in question to show up and administer punishment.

Yeah essentally the Palladin slew the guy as we came to the conclusion that the evil churches must have been behind the towns woes at the inn..

While it is true that the churches were operating out in the open, I think any good character would act on if he/she truly felt that the chruches were causing harm to the community or were behind supernatural attacks on the innocent citicens of the community..

Think of it like a factory. It operates in the open and members of the community are emplyoyed there. On the surface it seems to be a benefit, but if you discover that they are dumping toxic waste into the towns drinking water then they are commiting an illegal act.

Now we never met this barron before.. We didn't know what sort of lord he was. (Benevolent and fair or vile and a cruel dictator) We asssumed that he wouldn't allow a church to unleash supernatural beings upon the towns folk with good concience.

Ultimately it was an act where we drew one conclusion after another and that lead the paladin to act out. At that point it was too late.. I wouldn't be surprised if the Barron didn't come after us.. But for now I think he's got more pressing matters to attend to. Namely the gate to Dyval.

[UR Leader Hobbes]

Well, I'll add to this. Not only should the Baron have had them arrested, but any other do-gooders in the area would come looking for the group who:

1. Killed a man in cold blood because of his clothing in a public place.
2. Killed every member of that man's Church.
3. Killed every member but one of the other church in the town.
4. Unleashed an elemental on 2 structures, reducing them to rubble.

Also, unless either church was local, word of one the local branches being utterly destroyed and all of its clergymen being ruthlessly slaughtered would reach the home office. This would usually result in some sort of retribution. This is assuming the deities involved don't take notice.

Last, who attended these churches. From what I understand, there were only 2 churches in the town. Unless they are all aetheists, then I presume the majority of the townspeople were the congregation. How happy are they going to be?

-Vek
"Who are the evil people in this story?"

Oddly enough the majority of the towns people were of a good alignment. So it was believed that these two churches were trying to keep a sort of spiritual monopoly on the place by not allowing other gods to be worshiped.. (We did ask about other churches and gods but none were in this town. Hence another reason we suspected the churches to be behind the towns woes.)

[Misfit KotLD]

The Paladin was confused. It's Bump Uglies, not Smite Evil. And yeah, the baron, both churches' parent organizations, and any local law abiding heroes should be gunning for a group who beheads priests like that. Not to mention the burned church buildings and slaughtered believers. Of course, the gates could open as well and all hell breaks loose. Then EVERYONE is out for the PCs for their deeds.

[KillWatch]

Where it might not have been legal, and they appear to have attacked without provocation, isn't it within the requirements of at least a paladin to smite evil wherever it is found, institutionalized or not?

The other characters might not have a divine commandment to wipe out evil temples or followers which may cause conflict, but the paladin was sort of acting in character. Without knowing his disposition, he might have tried to convert the priests to that of his god(s).

But then again, what does it take to become a priest and to gain power from a god? They have to be fanatical zealots, giving self over completely to their god's goals and purpose. So the god itself would dictate on how the paladin and the priests would interact.

It sounds though as if the temples were full of pacifist evil priests, which I don't understand really. And what do they, or their gods get by keeping the seals? Are they simply sitting on them until a fore told date to unleach all manner of hellish realities upon the people?

So while their actions MAY have been hasty and even illegal, it might not have been the wrong thing to do

[ZorValachan]

It's your assumption that evil holiness (god) is the same as unholiness (agents of Hades/Dyval).

Some palladins fight the unholy (demons, devils), but do not necessarily fight holy evils. It also really depends on how the character takes his alignment and role of slayer of evil-dark

I had a principled wolfen which followed the Pantheon of Light and Dark. A legal and openly worshiped pantheon of the Wolfen Empire. Another member of the party was an evil Priest of Set. The principled character never took action against this priest, but did slay the witch of Modeus in the party as soon as it was discovered she was a witch.

Later he had his mind wiped and although still principled, took a different stance on the matter. When his memories came back and he realized what a hypocrite he had been, he slew the priest of Set and then himself. This was after about 5 years of gaming and they were at about 6-7th level at the time.

To say 'all palladins must do X' is too limiting. How each one takes their role as a destroyer of evil is up to their deity and own personal code.

And why wouldn't an evil priesthood-temple want to keep a gateway to Dyval sealed? Just because they are both evil doesn't mean they are buddies. What they 'get' could be as simple as not letting a rival evil into the world.

[Severite]

I personally would run it with the overzealous palladin and company buying it at the hands of citizens/priests, since just because they are servants of an evil god, doesn't mean it is illegal, or even wrong. For instance, perhaps the gods alignment was aberrant. Evil, yet honorable, and, most likely, fair to their servants/congregation. Meaning what has just been commited was murder against a large number of civillians. Plus, yes, the Palladin and his code to never attack an unarmed foe, and a complete lack of understanding of what was really going on. Now, on the flip side, it is entirely possible that you and your friends, saw this situation(including GM) in much the same way, particularly if you are relatively young, and as players killing the evil church was an accepted and more importantly expected action. Depends on your group, really.

[Veknironth]

Well, I have to chime in on this again. If the townspeople were generally good, then why were they worshipping this evil religion? How could the other Churches keep them from worshipping whoever they wanted? Why would they attend services? Why did the Baron just allow these entities to operate in his area of control, contrary to his and the popular will? The group, from what I see, made no attempt to investigate or address any of these questions. They didn't ask around or try to figure out what was going on. They just immediately resorted to overwhelming violence without so much as a warning. They started by attacking unsuspecting, unarmed man while he was enjoying a drink. Then they decided to kill all of his friends and burn down his place of work, then did the same thing to the competition. All of this was done without even talking to anyone.

HOw can they be sure that everyone in the 2 churches was evil? What about the children and spouses of these church members? Are they also evil? IS there no possibility that they are innocent? And what proof was there that these Churches were responsible for anything? As far as I can see, the player group just took it upon themselves to slaughter people who they suspected of being aligned with some power they didn't like. That is evil. They are evil brigands who went on a rampage to satisfy their bloodlust and used the thinly veiled excuse of the church being evil. That is how anyone outside of that player group is going to see them. Anyone who hears that story will be looking for justice, or perhaps to join this band of cutthroats so they can engage in some wanton bloodletting. Those Churches, unless they only had 1 temple a piece, are going to exact revenge. There is no way they would stand for some group desecrating and murdering an entire congregation. If I lived in that town I would demand those characters surrender their weapons and submit to a trial. IF they refused, since they are obviously powerful, then I would ask them to leave before they decide anyone else is evil and decide to take the law into their hands again. If they refuse to leave, then I would look for outside help to rid my town of these bandits who were now squatting, unwanted, in my home.

As for the factory reference - just think what would happen if the factory closest to you had some guy killed in a bar for no reason other than the killers had a grudge against the factory. Thise band of killers then goes to the factory and kills EVERYONE working there. They then burn it to the ground because they don't want to face the consquences of having killed the first guy. Then they decide they are going to massacre the competing factory in town and raze it because they feel like they've created a monopoly. You would be locking your doors, sitting in the corner with a shotgun, waiting to see if they came after you. There would be a massive manhunt for these people, and every law enforcement agency in that area would be on the look out. No one would thank them for that.

-Vek
"Indefensible."

[jade von delioch]

I surprised that you were not thrown in prison. Heres why i think this way:

1) in palladium, the church is made up of two factions; the good and the evil deities. They work and exist (for the most part) in harmony.
2) you seem to have attacked the priest out of ill reasoning. Taking the life of citizens of a kingdom unlawfully should have negative results if you are not in the right.
3) Investigation works the best before one takes rash actions. This way you would have found out why there are two evil churches in town. there had to be a reason and no one seemed to be complaining about it as far as i can tell from your recount of the story.