Why hasn't the Coalition begun deploying skilled Skelebots?

[Pepsi Jedi]

Much like the above poster said, give um too much ability to think and one of um might sit up and go "Wow humans are squishy....."

Maybe one of the head's of the CS watched terminator and thought rebirthing Skynet was a bad idea?

[Nxla666]

Mostly, because the CS government is way to paranoid to give bot much more capability beyond "point and click" commands.

As for the comment about Artoo and the other droids, it came up in a conversation years ago I had with a hardcore SW geek that the R2 series astromech was actually considered a failure because too many of them started to display "behavior problems", ie: actual emotional responses and such, and the programming of all furture astromechs was less complicated.

[Ravenwing]

It wouldnt be needed.


I know the force org charts for the CS always have something like 8 grunts, a couple of juicer or borgs, etc. But a real military would have one or two tech officers in the mix(Since CS grunts aren't allowed to have a mos beynd killing things.) I solve this by combining the Tech officer occ and the grunt.

But back to my point. Most squads would have 1 medic, and one general fix it guy.

[Temporalmage]

Perhaps after the abyssal failure of skelebots in the Tolkeen war, the CS will have a few of them reprogrammed. Look at the Hunter skelebot, which has more skills than average, and is used to deliver messages. I've used them in campaigns running around Chi-Town itself, similar to robots in the star wars saga.

[Khanibal]

Course, ultimately, its a false message, since the CS regime doesn't really seem to care about humanity, mainly keeping the status quo.

Actually, they do care. Most of the C.S. military and administration honestly believe that their policies and methods are the only way to secure the safety of the human race. They know down to their core that d-bees and magic are harmful and corrupting forces. Even the ones that know that some d-bees and mages are harmless or at least not antagonistic believe that their policy is generally correct and it's necessary to paint all non-humans and wizards with the same brush in order to keep the people focused and "on target". Yes there are some people who know their policies are excessive and cruel, but even to most of them it's a "us or them" situation.
All in all, aberrant, not diabolic.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I do mean that a Coalition squad of 8-10 human grunts and their 1-2 Dog Boys could be issued a single all-purpose skelebot to help with everything from combat to heavy lifting to assissting in vehicle repairs and dealing with advanced electronics. I see it as a force multiplier. Yes, they can break down like just any other machine, but a skelebot is also easy to abandon. A built-in and entirely self-contained self destruct mechanism would complete the package nicely.

I'd only use 4 human soldiers, the rest dog boys and Skelebots.

I've already moved onto a new generation of Skelebots, thanks to help from Triax. They are built into what appears to be CA-6 armor, so it's nearly impossible to distinguish them from cyborgs or the exo-skeleton CA-6EX armor. (I also have all CS Juicer's wearing CA-6 armor too).

[Library Ogre]

From what I recall, the CS AI programming simply isn't very advanced, and they've had problem giving them non-combat roles (which is part of why skelebots are seldom used in conjunction with human troops... they have problems with combat roles that aren't "Kill everything"). Now, as pointed out, they can get help with this from Triax, but that would require them to think about it... and they have a definite human bias.

[G]

I think the CS would rather deploy borgs than bots for the type of utility you are suggesting.

I use a dogpack mix of 2 psi stalkers, 6 dogboys & 2 skelebots. The Skelebots are essentially the psi stalkers bodyguards. When the group rests at night, they have two sentries who never rest. When the group needs to fall back because they are outgunned, the skelebots are the ones who hold the line, allowing everyone else to escape. I dress them in medium borg armor - the borgs always want light or heavy depending on mission, there are a lot of extra medium armors floating around.

I don't mix them with standard human troops as I keep my important humans in vehicles n such. I do use them as infantry for tanks & robots..so a CS tank will have a squad of skelebots guarding it who when the crew leave the vehicle become bodyguards and carry-its, while some ALWAYS stay with the tank (usually 4). In the field, someone in the tank can give the skelebots orders, the default being anti-missile & melee combatants.

[dark brandon]

canon answer, I don't think anyone has ever thought about them as more than just war machines.

(for any anti-cs, the following is how I play it in my game, not cannon answer)

I usually will play them to be more skilled than combat oriented, and more reactionary than actionary.

for example, a typical squad will consist of 3 humans, 3 psionics (usually dog boys) and 3-6 skelebots. They tend to either be linked with the squad commander (so when he fires, they will fire, simultaniously at the same target) or are linked via radio to triangulate incoming fire and respond. In game terms, this means basically theyhese bots are basically always attack simultaniously (dening dodge to shooters).

In larger groups, they will travel with skull walkers or other ground vehicles and are linked to the robots weapondry. This allows them to do heavy damage to large/imposing foes, such as dragons. They can also be commanded to aim for specific targets. In game I will roll once for the robot, then roll once for the skelebots. For example, skelebots do 3D6 damage, so in a group of 10 they do 3d6x10 damage.

finally, I use them as maintenance, camp and base builders, recon, and resupply.

Though, now i'm gonna steal dustins idea, which makes targeting the commander that much more difficult.

[Dustin Fireblade]

They've also been having problems with Triax latly as well over the whole FQ affair.

Pretty much forgiven as of Aftermath. Prosek signed a new treaty with the NGR.

[Mack]

I do mean that a Coalition squad of 8-10 human grunts and their 1-2 Dog Boys could be issued a single all-purpose skelebot to help with everything from combat to heavy lifting to assissting in vehicle repairs and dealing with advanced electronics. I see it as a force multiplier. Yes, they can break down like just any other machine, but a skelebot is also easy to abandon. A built-in and entirely self-contained self destruct mechanism would complete the package nicely.

I'd only use 4 human soldiers, the rest dog boys and Skelebots.

I've already moved onto a new generation of Skelebots, thanks to help from Triax. They are built into what appears to be CA-6 armor, so it's nearly impossible to distinguish them from cyborgs or the exo-skeleton CA-6EX armor. (I also have all CS Juicer's wearing CA-6 armor too).

I use a similar approach, with a mix of humans, dog boys, and skelebots. The combination of abilities works very well, and compensates for weaknesses.

I also considered assigning one skelebot to each human soldier as a combat escort--it shoots at what he shoots at, protects him, carries him to medical treatment if needed... All of which would be a morale and confidence booster for the individual soldier.

I use a small backstory for skelebots. They were originally intended for basic sentry duties, and then only in small groups with direct human oversight. But with the coming war a CS General decided to put them into large infantry style units, which was far beyond their original design and resulted in the SoT failures.

[Dustin Fireblade]

They've also been having problems with Triax latly as well over the whole FQ affair.

Pretty much forgiven as of Aftermath. Prosek signed a new treaty with the NGR.

I tend to think that they're putting on happy faces and pretending everything is ok rather then it actually being ok and everything forgiven. Call me pessimistic, but I don't think Proseck is the forgiving sort.

It's a pretty happy face when you triple the amount of supplies you are sending. And the book goes into some details on Prosek's thoughts on the subject.

[Lenwen]

I know the force org charts for the CS always have something like 8 grunts, a couple of juicer or borgs,

Since when did the CS military start to standardize Juicers ?

to my knowledge thier still a incredibly small percentage of the CS military .. not 1 or 2 in every other squad ..
I'm thinking they make up like less then 2% of the military overall which would not put thier numbers anywhere near what is needed to have several in every squad nor every OTHER squad ...

Would it ?

[Mack]

It's probably more realistic to "zoom out" and handle things on a Platoon level. IE, one platoon probably has a squad of psi-stalkers and dog boys, a squad of power armor, a squad of juicers and cyborgs (heavy combat types), and then a few squads of Joe-soldier with maybe some partial bionics or psychic abilities sprinkled in. Those squads might be further subdivided into a heavy weapons team, a medic, com guy, squad leader, etc.

For typical infantry units, I endorse something similar. A squad has mostly normal soldiers, plus a few of specialists. Specialists may be a pair of psychics, or Juicers, or partial borgs, Dog Boys, or even merc advisors. Each squad in a platoon has different specialists. So a platoon has some capability in each area, and if needed the platoon commander can combine the specialists into a single squad for unique missions. This keeps the ratio of normal soldier to specialists reasonable and gives flexability based on need.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Yeah, I've noticed a lot of the players around here modify "squads" to fit either a) what they think they should be, without regard for resources, cost, etc, or b) juice them up in order to take on the high-powered PCs in the games they run.

Either is fine. (Actually, I have a slight beef with the first one) But, as with house rules, they need to be clearly differentiated from canon. And it seems canon is silent on this one. After a brief perusal on my part, I couldn't find "standard squad" strengths or even much on special squads like seek and destroy, special forces, or anti-supernatural patrols. I checked CWM and Psyscape. Don't have CS Navy in front of me. If anyone can find anything specific, let us know.

They probably left it up to the GMs. Still, some guidance on the subject, ala the listing of demon "squads" in The Minion Wars, description of Dweomers forces, the Mechanoids deployment, etc, would be appreciated.

But, speaking personally, I don't think every squad has a borg, a juicer, a few psychics, a few dog boys, and a psi-stalker. First of all, a "squad" is usually 8-12 people! There'd be no room for human troops, if that were the case! And let's not forget that humans are the backbone of the Coalition Military.

As of the Tolkeen War, a patrol and recon squad is four humans, four Dog Boys and one Psi-Stalker, and a squad leader, who can be human, a Psi-Stalker, or regular psychic. (SoT 1 pg27)

Same page goes on to state that EVERY squad has at least 2 Dog Boys and usually one or two Psi-Stalkers as well.

Page 29 of SoT1 says that roughly 4% of the CS Army possess psychic powers, and that puts tens of thousands of psychics in the Army alone.

Aftermath pg 12 has a "Magic Recovery Team" and on pg 14 is a "Rescue and Recovery Team."

In CWC, check the CS Ranger OCC on pg 80 for details on a long range patrol unit

For additional information on CS squads see the original Sourcebook 1



For something really comprehensive, check out the CS Battle Order at Nexus Nine.
http://www.nexusnine.net/doc/artc/cs/

[dark brandon]

Yeah, I've noticed a lot of the players around here modify "squads" to fit either a) what they think they should be, without regard for resources, cost, etc, or b) juice them up in order to take on the high-powered PCs in the games they run.

you shouldn't assume A or B. If you question validity, you should ask, don't just assume they have no reguard for resources or for high powered PC.

If you ask, you may gain some insight on how other players decide their squads.

Either is fine. (Actually, I have a slight beef with the first one) But, as with house rules, they need to be clearly differentiated from canon. And it seems canon is silent on this one. After a brief perusal on my part, I couldn't find "standard squad" strengths or even much on special squads like seek and destroy, special forces, or anti-supernatural patrols. I checked CWM and Psyscape. Don't have CS Navy in front of me. If anyone can find anything specific, let us know.

Check out Sourcebook 1

[Lenwen]

Alotta replies ... and yet not a single person willing to give a book/pg# or thier reasoning as to why there are up to 3 Juicers per squad ...

honestly ?

Beef up your setting to how ever you need it .. just dont go around claiming its all cannon .. when the CS has a VERY VERY Limited amount of Juicers threw out its whole military .

So far that I know the LARGEST Juicer % of military in the CS is currently under the General who heads up Lone Star's defense . I believe he has a platoon or a brigade or something of that size . Out side of that there are Zero mentions as to exactly how many the CS truely has . And I am not some one who simply gives the CS Force Fields or Juicers .. just to suit the need of the Storyline .. I stick to canon . If its not in a canon written book or specified as canon .. Sorry CS dont get it .

[gaaahhhh]

I think the CS should get Titan Robotics to supply their skelebots.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Alotta replies ... and yet not a single person willing to give a book/pg# or thier reasoning as to why there are up to 3 Juicers per squad ...

honestly ?

Beef up your setting to how ever you need it .. just dont go around claiming its all cannon .. when the CS has a VERY VERY Limited amount of Juicers threw out its whole military .

So far that I know the LARGEST Juicer % of military in the CS is currently under the General who heads up Lone Star's defense . I believe he has a platoon or a brigade or something of that size . Out side of that there are Zero mentions as to exactly how many the CS truely has . And I am not some one who simply gives the CS Force Fields or Juicers .. just to suit the need of the Storyline .. I stick to canon . If its not in a canon written book or specified as canon .. Sorry CS dont get it .

To the best of my knowledge there are two division's of juicer's, created at the start of the CS-Tolkeen War. How many of those are still alive as of 109 PA is anyone's guess, though I'm sure if the CS thinks they are effective they will create more. In any event these two divisions were under the CS Special Forces (the proper name escapes me).

I believe in Siege on Tolkeen 2, in the section of the "Dirty Thirty" Special Forces unit, there are example's of CS soldiers that could be included into a SpecOp type of unit, and IIRC that does include Juicer's.

So I could see a limited number of Juicer's in a special forces unit, outside of their respective divisions, but not the regular army.

But don't worry, I hardly ever use Juicer's for anything.

[dark brandon]

Alotta replies ... and yet not a single person willing to give a book/pg# or thier reasoning as to why there are up to 3 Juicers per squad ...

honestly ?

Beef up your setting to how ever you need it .. just dont go around claiming its all cannon .. when the CS has a VERY VERY Limited amount of Juicers threw out its whole military .

So far that I know the LARGEST Juicer % of military in the CS is currently under the General who heads up Lone Star's defense . I believe he has a platoon or a brigade or something of that size . Out side of that there are Zero mentions as to exactly how many the CS truely has . And I am not some one who simply gives the CS Force Fields or Juicers .. just to suit the need of the Storyline .. I stick to canon . If its not in a canon written book or specified as canon .. Sorry CS dont get it .

By canon, we have no idea how much they have throughout their army. they may be very very limited, or quit common. About the only thing we do know is that the CS do have juicers by canon. Saying they have very very limited is as canon as saying they have a whole lot of them.

[Dustin Fireblade]

By canon, we have no idea how much they have throughout their army. they may be very very limited, or quit common. About the only thing we do know is that the CS do have juicers by canon. Saying they have very very limited is as canon as saying they have a whole lot of them.

I disagree. As of Uprising, it was canon that the Proseks weren't in love with Juicer conversions and had only recently started allowing them. As it is, they keep them on a pretty tight leash and insist on a certain degree of countermeasures.

Sure, WB11 was around what, 104, 106 PA, but to me this still argues against Juicers becoming massively incorporated in the CS Armed Forces by 109 PA. I imagine they're still under evaluation, "frowned upon", etc.

As I already mentioned, the CS had two divisions of nothing but Juicer's in 105 PA. In other words 11,520 total Juicer's. These were created after a three year study.