Exactly WHAT does the CS have ?

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well I went and looked and your right. It is mentioned only in passing and apperently forgotten.

It said in the book it's (New Waukegan) going to be 40 lvls and hold 2.5million but if you read the RUE,

Chi Town is 40 lvls. And has a population of 2.2 Million in Chi town and 3 million in the Chi Town burbs.

In the mention of Waukegan Chi only had 1.3 million at the time. but now has 2.2.... looks like they got the people that were supposed to go to the other.

Other CS places are mentioned and detailed as well as Ishpeming (678,000 with 110,000 around it)) and Manistique (380,000, with 100,000 around it)) but not one mention of New Waukegan.

Looks to me like Waukegan might have been the next 'public works' project. I.E. give the populace something to do and jobs and what not, that got left by the wayside when they went to war with FQ and then Tolkeen.

It was left out of the RuE completely, while things like Kingsdale were included. I can't help but think if it had actually been finished it'd have ranked mention. RUE Reiterates that Chi town is the biggest and most populated at the time of RuE which is set post Tolkeen war.

[The Beast]

Isn't it also mentioned in either Aftermath or one of the SoT books?

[Prince Artemis]

Isn't it also mentioned in either Aftermath or one of the SoT books?

I'm pretty sure aftermath mentions it as near completion.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Isn't it also mentioned in either Aftermath or one of the SoT books?

I'm pretty sure aftermath mentions it as near completion.

I spent the evening flipping though the SoT books and Aftermath. I didn't see any mention of it what so ever in there. In fact the only place I've been able to find it is those sentence or two in the CWC book way back before the SoT or Aftermath or RuE.

I didn't read every word of the entire SoT or Aftermath but I read though the parts pertaining to the CS and their territories and didn't see it at all.

If someone finds it, please share the page numbers.

[Ravenwing]

RUE: Page 29.


Last Paragraph about Chicago ruins. Right before the Minnesota section. It makes a mention of Waukegan.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Indeed. But as of the RuE it's still being built and apparently will not have population till it's completion. (( First of it's kind))

[Dead Boy]

...It goes on to say how the recruits for the Tolkeen/Quebec war were promised favorable status on the waiting list, gaining CS citizenship in just one or two years for themselves and their families. Given that half of them are said to have died in their first six months of service, it annoys me that much more that the Kev wrote it so the CS reneged on that deal... so unnecessary even from a storytelling standpoint.

Not really. The CS knows what the people want (Entry into Chi-Town) and knows what it can provide (which isn't entry into Chi-Town). Think about it. There are how many people in Chi-Town, a city, that by it's very nature can't expand. So, whenever someone is born, they just took the spot of someone wanting in. People also live longer in the city than outside, and are less likely to leave, which further log jams the entry into the city.

I agree with Glitterboy2098 in thinking that you're limiting your scope a bit too much. The people in the burbs are looking to get CS Citizenship, not necessarily to become a Chi-Town resident. Between Waukegan's excess capacity of 1.8 million (using 105PA numbers) and Lone Star City's (having lost 89,000+ people and it being stated in RUE that half of the city is a "ghost town" with room to spare), elbow space is not a issue. Even New Chillicothe has room to comfortably accommodate a few tens of thousands more (I forget where, but I recall reading that they are at only 50% normal capacity). The new citizens could be spread out throughout the entirety of the CS. And if the evil powers that be need to thin the herd a bit more to make the numbers work, then just give them the name of their new cities of residence but tell them they have to get there under their own power/means. The dangers of the land will take out at least 25%.

Indeed. But as of the RuE it's still being built and apparently will not have population till it's completion. (( First of it's kind))

Then that must mean (even if retroactively) that the 700,000 people mentioned in CWC must be the population of its 'burbs awaiting the city's completion, with maybe as much as 10% of that being the construction crew.

You mean New Waukegan I'd guess? Mentioned in CWC page 200. However it's just really in passing and it's population is unknown in 109 PA. It was 700,000 in 105 PA.

I'm actually going to be doing a write up for the area arround it (read- It's burbs) I was just curious what other people thought of a possible mass exodus of the burbs

Along similar lines, I wrote up an piece for a new fortress-city under construction called Cross, planting it between Whykin and Kingsdale, (with the main focus being on the 'burbs). The idea was it was to be where the CS would house its new citizens that came as a result of the deal with all their new "burb trash" recruits and their families (the deal being redacted to only include families for the "surviving" soldiers as a compromise). And why would the CS do this? Well, after the war there would be about a quarter of a million battle hardened, heavily armed people out there that would have a serious axe to grind with the CS if they completely reneged on their deal for citizenship; it would be wise to have them on the Coalition's side instead. I really should flesh it out a bit more and submit it to The Rifter.

[glitterboy2098]

I'd suggest a new supercity wouldn't completely be filled with the new CS citizens the high ups don't want polluting the sanctity of Chi-town. In thought, it would make a type of sense. Push all the 'lesser citizens' to a separate city, but I'd think you'd want to also seed the city with CS loyalists, particularly Prosek loyalists, in a way that is balanced, so you don't end up with another potential Free Quebec setup. The CS needs to make sure this new population center has the EXACT same values and is run effectively the same was as Chi-town/CS, otherwise it can risk a large population deciding "Screw you guys!"

Its going to require an initial dilution of core Chi-town culture and loyalists, but in the long term would better support sustained loyal populations.

i think it's a given that the governmental, infrastructional, and military leadership in any new city will be appointees from Chi-town or another existing fortress city. your correct in that the CS would want ot have loyal members in the positions of power in these new cities, and thats how you do it. the new citizens are the workers, low level managemewnt, ect. initially the high level positions would be people transferred in from other cities.

only after a few decades, when the populace gets into complacency about their new citizenship, would you start to see lots of locals in the positions of power. between the two points owuld be a gradual process of promotion from within.

[Mack]

Considering the first and last story were written in part by KEVIN S HIMSELF and it features a CS OFFICER THAT WAITS YEARS TO GET IN, I'd say it's canon.

You should re-read that story. The CS Officer is a citizen, but is assigned to the Burbs just as he could be assigned to the Magic Zone, or Missouri, or Lone Star.

And the Anthology is not canon.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Not for nothing guys but just going "It's not canon" Doesn't make it not. Give some proof or something. But saying something that hasn't been proven more than once doesn't make it so.

The fact that Kevin wrote some of the stories seems to lend credence that at least SOME of it is canon.

[Talavar]

Not for nothing guys but just going "It's not canon" Doesn't make it not. Give some proof or something. But saying something that hasn't been proven more than once doesn't make it so.

The fact that Kevin wrote some of the stories seems to lend credence that at least SOME of it is canon.

We're just going by precedent - prior to Tales of the Chi-town Burbs, none of the Rifts fiction was canon; Tales of the Chi-town Burbs is Rifts fiction, so many (myself included) believe it not to be canon either. That's all the evidence I'm going by anyway.

[Pepsi Jedi]

The others were not written by Kevin either were they?

And they were specifically said to be non canon by Kevin and crew.

Tales of the Chi Town Burbs was written at least in part by Kevin himself, and we've not been specificly told it's not canon. ( They tend to tell us when stuff is optional or not canon. The rifter being a prime example. Most of it is optional except for a few select articles that we were specifically told was canon.

So it (tales of the chi town burbs) could go either way. I see your arguement (( Previous novels weren't cannon). Still, the oppisite could be true, (( With Kevin writing some of the stuff and no indication that it's not canon)).

It'd be cool if Alex could let us know.