Nxla's Greatest threat...the CS?!

[dark brandon]

I know, it's suppose to be Psyscape, but while thumbing through the psyscape book, I saw something that made me laugh.

Nxla is a huge, 200 story monster. Kinda hard to miss in the surrounding area that it may be summoned in. It has 10 Psionic attacks per melee...

But best yet...It doesn't have dimentional teleport. Meaning even if it does make it to rifts earth, it wouldn't last longer than a few weeks. This isn't something that's really hard to miss and any fly-bys of the magic zone with telescopic visors are gonna show this thing for what it really is. And he's quite vulnerable to Kenetic (rail gun) attacks.

So, he pops in...gets spotted and in 30 mins he's being buzzed by SAMAS and Super SAMAS from 2000 ft away, unable to defend himself except for maybe a few psionic attacks here and there when one SAMAS does happen to get in the way. The physical attacks are completely negated since it can't reach anything (it's not that fast flying). And, lacking Dimentional Teleport...it's pretty much screwed.

[cornholioprime]

I know, it's suppose to be Psyscape, but while thumbing through the psyscape book, I saw something that made me laugh.

Nxla is a huge, 200 story monster. Kinda hard to miss in the surrounding area that it may be summoned in. It has 10 Psionic attacks per melee...

But best yet...It doesn't have dimentional teleport. Meaning even if it does make it to rifts earth, it wouldn't last longer than a few weeks. This isn't something that's really hard to miss and any fly-bys of the magic zone with telescopic visors are gonna show this thing for what it really is. And he's quite vulnerable to Kenetic (rail gun) attacks.

So, he pops in...gets spotted and in 30 mins he's being buzzed by SAMAS and Super SAMAS from 2000 ft away, unable to defend himself except for maybe a few psionic attacks here and there when one SAMAS does happen to get in the way. The physical attacks are completely negated since it can't reach anything (it's not that fast flying). And, lacking Dimentional Teleport...it's pretty much screwed.

You need to re-read how NXLA "works."

First, who says that it's going to manifest itself on Earth while visible? LOTS of powerful beings sneak into our dimension after first making themselves invisible, and one gets the feeling that a being with an IQ of 30 would probably take such a precaution.

Second, just because you're 200 stories high, doesn't mean that the Coalition can see you. This is the super-depopulated Rifts Earth, remember??

The Twin Towers were something like 200 stories tall themselves, but drive just a few short miles away and they, too, disappear -and that's on a relatively flat piece of Earth, not the overgrown canopy and forests that make up large swathes of Rifts North America.

Third, NXLA might not be able to Dimensional Teleport, but he has something like knowledge of all Spells levels 1-10 or 1-8 or something like that...and in one of those levels is a lesser teleport spell.

Fourth You really think that his minions won't have a hiding place made ready for him to dwell in, shielded from prying eyes, like an excavated pit or canopy of trees or remote location or something?? Somehow, I don't think that has NXLA survived all these millions of years by just showing up in a new dimension with a loudspeaker and guns a' blazin.' Even something as powerful as NXLA has to answer to, or at least stay in hiding from, the massed might of the Splugorth....

[dark brandon]

You need to re-read how NXLA "works."

First, who says that it's going to manifest itself on Earth while visible? LOTS of powerful beings sneak into our dimension after first making themselves invisible, and one gets the feeling that a being with an IQ of 30 would probably take such a precaution.

At best, he has invisibility simple (2nd lvl spell as well as natural turn invisible). Most PA has thermal vision which would see through it.

Second, just because you're 200 stories high, doesn't mean that the Coalition can see you. This is the super-depopulated Rifts Earth, remember??

The Twin Towers were something like 200 stories tall themselves, but drive just a few short miles away and they, too, disappear -and that's on a relatively flat piece of Earth, not the overgrown canopy and forests that make up large swathes of Rifts North America.

Well, I suspect CS diving in their non-hover cars probably wouldn't be able to see him from a few short miles away. On the other hand an aerial patrol, a flying Death's Head...with telescopic vision and radar...might be able to garner a few extra miles. I mean...I'm just saying.

Third, NXLA might not be able to Dimensional Teleport, but he has something like knowledge of all Spells levels 1-10 or 1-8 or something like that...and in one of those levels is a lesser teleport spell.

All spells 1-6. Which, you are correct, teleport lesser is a lvl 6 spell. You've found the one thing that CS can't stop him from doing and the logical reasoning it would have in stopping the CS. They can't stop him from teleporting 50 lbs of non-organic material 75 miles away.

I'm just pulling your strings corn...No, he has no teleport spell for himself.

Fourth You really think that his minions won't have a hiding place made ready for him to dwell in, shielded from prying eyes, like an excavated pit or canopy of trees or remote location or something?? Somehow, I don't think that has NXLA survived all these millions of years by just showing up in a new dimension with a loudspeaker and guns a' blazin.' Even something as powerful as NXLA has to answer to, or at least stay in hiding from, the massed might of the Splugorth....

Can't argue this. Though, once found wether by luck or maybe the guys from Psycape are like "eh...we'll let the CS handle him"...once found...he'd be pretty SOL. Heck Just sending in a bunch of skelebots nutrilizes most of his psionic powers.

[dark brandon]

I suspect the dimensional teleport thing is an oversight. That ability is obnoxiously common.

Pretty sure its automatic for alien intelligences though, yes?

Maybe. Probably. But as written...Poor Nxla is a sitting duck.

[dark brandon]

That may be true but they can still be turned into soulless xoombies. This would cause a problem for the CS. Where the psyscape characters would be able to exorcise the fragment and return the souls. As well as cast the same spell on Nxla to remove tens of thousands of souls from nxla. Psionic attacks also deal 10 times more damage and they are immune to his psionic attacks. So while the CS may have some advantage I would still put psyscape as its greatest threat.

Even thought about this. In order to be turned by nxla they have to be captured and have a ritual done to them (takes about 1/2 an hour). Not going to be much time if you're being hit by wave after wave of CS. Next...you can't turn Skelebots into soulless if he's underground and if he's above ground Flying PA would be near impossible to catch as long as they stay more than 100 or so ft away from him.

Psionic attacks deal 10x in damage, but CS can deal out equivalent damage and at a range. I think Mind bolt does 2D4x10 to Nxla or so...which is about the same amount of damage an old style samas rail gun does. At best you can have a high lvl mind melter with a 6D6 or 8D6 psi-sword doing 8D6x10...of course he has to be in melee range with a creature that has a Supernatural PS of 60. This also means the MM is so close that spells like Magic net are going to be a viable option for him.

[rat_bastard]

Not to mention the damage done by a mark IX Missile launch vehicle.

[rat_bastard]

That's strange.... I thought Nxla could rip out the souls of people in the same plane as it is in without waisting time with a ceremony. So the whole danger of Nxla showing up was the mass-sucking-of-souls.

only if you are in psionic range...

he could go astral and rip out souls one at at time but that leaves its body defenseless.

[cornholioprime]

That's strange.... I thought Nxla could rip out the souls of people in the same plane as it is in without waisting time with a ceremony. So the whole danger of Nxla showing up was the mass-sucking-of-souls.

Correct.

Nxla's "soul strands" have a planet-wide range, even if the speed is slow.

[cornholioprime]

I suspect the dimensional teleport thing is an oversight. That ability is obnoxiously common.

Pretty sure its automatic for alien intelligences though, yes?

Correct.

Alien Intelligences have the full range of Prototypical Deific Powers at normal cost, unless otherwise stated in their write-ups.

[dark brandon]

That's strange.... I thought Nxla could rip out the souls of people in the same plane as it is in without waisting time with a ceremony. So the whole danger of Nxla showing up was the mass-sucking-of-souls.

Correct.

Nxla's "soul strands" have a planet-wide range, even if the speed is slow.

He has this ability? Really? where?

Correct.

Alien Intelligences have the full range of Prototypical Deific Powers at normal cost, unless otherwise stated in their write-ups.

In his write up...he doesn't have it. Sadface.

[cornholioprime]

That's strange.... I thought Nxla could rip out the souls of people in the same plane as it is in without waisting time with a ceremony. So the whole danger of Nxla showing up was the mass-sucking-of-souls.

Correct.

Nxla's "soul strands" have a planet-wide range, even if the speed is slow.

He has this ability? Really? where?

Why don't you re-read the "Soulles Xombies" section??

Correct.

Alien Intelligences have the full range of Prototypical Deific Powers at normal cost, unless otherwise stated in their write-ups.

In his write up...he doesn't have it. Sadface.[/quote]I see your "sadface" and raise you an face.

Unless a write-up specifically states that a creature of type X does NOT have a Given ability native to its 'species,' then it has it; your Argument is like trying to say that a Dragon who has a poorly written text, DOESN'T have a Breath Weapon just because the writer forgot to include it.

[dark brandon]

Why don't you re-read the "Soulles Xombies" section??

Ah, yes, there it is. None the less, CS would still be best to handle such things. After all, skelebots don't have souls.

I see your "sadface" and raise you an face.

Unless a write-up specifically states that a creature of type X does NOT have a Given ability native to its 'species,' then it has it; your Argument is like trying to say that a Dragon who has a poorly written text, DOESN'T have a Breath Weapon just because the writer forgot to include it.

Prove it.

[cornholioprime]

You need to re-read how NXLA "works."

First, who says that it's going to manifest itself on Earth while visible? LOTS of powerful beings sneak into our dimension after first making themselves invisible, and one gets the feeling that a being with an IQ of 30 would probably take such a precaution.

At best, he has invisibility simple (2nd lvl spell as well as natural turn invisible). Most PA has thermal vision which would see through it.

Illusory, Size-changing, and Invisibility Magicks.

Higher Level Scroll Magicks.

A lair prepared in advance.

Willing, high-powered followers who can cast the required spells in Nxla's stead.

I thought up those possibilities within a few moments of reading your Post here, and neither I nor anyone else on this Board (or any other) has an IQ of 30......yet you're playing Nxla to have all the subtlety of a retarded Wooly Dragon.

Is there no limit to the ways in which you dumb down NPCs in order to artificially "win" an Argument??

Second, just because you're 200 stories high, doesn't mean that the Coalition can see you. This is the super-depopulated Rifts Earth, remember??

The Twin Towers were something like 200 stories tall themselves, but drive just a few short miles away and they, too, disappear -and that's on a relatively flat piece of Earth, not the overgrown canopy and forests that make up large swathes of Rifts North America.

Well, I suspect CS diving in their non-hover cars probably wouldn't be able to see him from a few short miles away. On the other hand an aerial patrol, a flying Death's Head...with telescopic vision and radar...might be able to garner a few extra miles. I mean...I'm just saying.

A singular spot in a singular direction, out of several million square miles of land to cover.

Not only do you 'write' Nxla to be stupid as all get out, you also write your scenario so that the random Coalition patrols just happen to be located, and looking, in the exact right place at the exact right time to see Nxla appear.

Fourth You really think that his minions won't have a hiding place made ready for him to dwell in, shielded from prying eyes, like an excavated pit or canopy of trees or remote location or something?? Somehow, I don't think that has NXLA survived all these millions of years by just showing up in a new dimension with a loudspeaker and guns a' blazin.' Even something as powerful as NXLA has to answer to, or at least stay in hiding from, the massed might of the Splugorth....

Can't argue this. Though, once found wether by luck or maybe the guys from Psycape are like "eh...we'll let the CS handle him"...once found...he'd be pretty SOL. Heck Just sending in a bunch of skelebots nutrilizes most of his psionic powers.[/quote]Where did you miss the part about Nxla not only being able to Rift in his millions and millions of followers both Xombie and Harvester, not to mention that his Xombie-fying Soul Strands will make pretty quick work of any invading army before they really know what's hitting them?

As well as the fact that his Minions can just teleport him to somewhere else on the planet or open yet another Rift??

[dark brandon]

You need to re-read how NXLA "works."

First, who says that it's going to manifest itself on Earth while visible? LOTS of powerful beings sneak into our dimension after first making themselves invisible, and one gets the feeling that a being with an IQ of 30 would probably take such a precaution.

At best, he has invisibility simple (2nd lvl spell as well as natural turn invisible). Most PA has thermal vision which would see through it.

Illusory, Size-changing, and Invisibility Magicks.

Higher Level Scroll Magicks.

A lair prepared in advance.

Willing, high-powered followers who can cast the required spells in Nxla's stead.

I thought up those possibilities within a few moments of reading your Post here, and neither I nor anyone else on this Board (or any other) has an IQ of 30......yet you're playing Nxla to have all the subtlety of a retarded Wooly Dragon.

Is there no limit to the ways in which you dumb down NPCs in order to artificially "win" an Argument??

Second, just because you're 200 stories high, doesn't mean that the Coalition can see you. This is the super-depopulated Rifts Earth, remember??

The Twin Towers were something like 200 stories tall themselves, but drive just a few short miles away and they, too, disappear -and that's on a relatively flat piece of Earth, not the overgrown canopy and forests that make up large swathes of Rifts North America.

Well, I suspect CS diving in their non-hover cars probably wouldn't be able to see him from a few short miles away. On the other hand an aerial patrol, a flying Death's Head...with telescopic vision and radar...might be able to garner a few extra miles. I mean...I'm just saying.

A singular spot in a singular direction, out of several million square miles of land to cover.

Not only do you 'write' Nxla to be stupid as all get out, you also write your scenario so that the random Coalition patrols just happen to be located, and looking, in the exact right place at the exact right time to see Nxla appear.

Fourth You really think that his minions won't have a hiding place made ready for him to dwell in, shielded from prying eyes, like an excavated pit or canopy of trees or remote location or something?? Somehow, I don't think that has NXLA survived all these millions of years by just showing up in a new dimension with a loudspeaker and guns a' blazin.' Even something as powerful as NXLA has to answer to, or at least stay in hiding from, the massed might of the Splugorth....

Can't argue this. Though, once found wether by luck or maybe the guys from Psycape are like "eh...we'll let the CS handle him"...once found...he'd be pretty SOL. Heck Just sending in a bunch of skelebots nutrilizes most of his psionic powers.

Where did you miss the part about Nxla not only being able to Rift in his millions and millions of followers both Xombie and Harvester, not to mention that his Xombie-fying Soul Strands will make pretty quick work of any invading army before they really know what's hitting them?

As well as the fact that his Minions can just teleport him to somewhere else on the planet or open yet another Rift??

Dude...you're arguing awfully hard on a thread that was obviously not meant to be taken quite so serious. I suggest a vacation...in the Bahamas. Mmm...beach front property.

[cornholioprime]

Why don't you re-read the "Soulles Xombies" section??

Ah, yes, there it is. None the less, CS would still be best to handle such things. After all, skelebots don't have souls.

***yawn***

Skelebots for whom it will take time and planning to get them where they need to go -by which time they get there, Nxla will be long gone.

I see your "sadface" and raise you an face.

Unless a write-up specifically states that a creature of type X does NOT have a Given ability native to its 'species,' then it has it; your Argument is like trying to say that a Dragon who has a poorly written text, DOESN'T have a Breath Weapon just because the writer forgot to include it.

Prove it.

Rifts: Dark Conversions. Palladium Dragons and Gods (a Rifts-applicable Sourcebook).

Moreover, the mere fact that Nxla can teleport masses of Minions and/or Xombies to your location as a defense mechanism indicates that this Intelligence can indeed perform some form of Teleportation Magic on its own, and that the write-up the creature merely has a few flaws in it.

[cornholioprime]

Dude...you're arguing awfully hard on a thread that was obviously not meant to be taken quite so serious. I suggest a vacation...in the Bahamas. Mmm...beach front property.

You know what??

You're absolutely correct. So, since you believe this Thread to be not all that 'serious,' you can go ahead and admit that you were incorrect in describing Nxla as a pushover.

[Temporalmage]

Even as written Nixla is bad news.

CS scout patrol finds Nixla, Nixla sends out it's soul sucking tendrals and turns them into it's minions. Patrol never returns.
CS sends a larger force to find the lost patrol, Nixla sends out more tendrals and turns all of the larger force into it's minions. Up to thousands per day.
CS finally sends it's army to investigate, remember that at this point the CS "probably" has no idea, or a very poor idea, of what they are actually facing (save vs nixlas soul sucking is a 15 or better on the dice!!).
The army approches Nixla's location and it already has hundreds of thousands of troops and minions to protect it. Virtually an entire army of it's own that have become supernatural killing machines with as much MDC as a SAMAS that willingly fight to the death for thier master. And durring the battle Nixla is going to soul suck as many more troops as it can, and then create it's own "Skelebots" by animating hundreds of the corpses around the battle field.
The only thing that would save the CS from themselves would be Psi-bat intervention in the form of ordering a mass retreat!

No, sorry. Even as written the CS is the last thing that Nixla would fear on this planet. Even nuking it wouldn't kill it with a minimum of 140,000+ MDC. Nixla would just keep coming and take out Chi-Town in a few days at most. And thats only becouse it don't move very fast.

[dark brandon]

Dude...you're arguing awfully hard on a thread that was obviously not meant to be taken quite so serious. I suggest a vacation...in the Bahamas. Mmm...beach front property.

You know what??

You're absolutely correct. So, since you believe this Thread to be not all that 'serious,' you can go ahead and admit that you were incorrect in describing Nxla as a pushover.

He's not a pushover. He's a little child...crying out for attention. As stated in RIFTS source book 30, all you need is love.

[dark brandon]

Of course, all of this gets thrown out of whack if Nxla appears somewhere much more remote, like, say, Hawaii.

Good...cause if it was the Bahamas...it'd be personal.

[taalismn]

still...it's a nice thought...that an ancient nasty piece of work like Nxla could be a thundering moron...
but that's not how AIs become ANCIENT Alien Intelligences...

[dark brandon]

still...it's a nice thought...that an ancient nasty piece of work like Nxla could be a thundering moron...
but that's not how AIs become ANCIENT Alien Intelligences...

It'd be a first for palladium. Maybe an ancient AI got to be ancient by going after 3rd rate worlds. In Nxla's case, Maybe he's use to worlds only magic and psionics reign where range is basically a few hundred feet at most., and dispite having a big IQ, takes things for granted and underestimates technology. Maybe he's use to coming into worlds guns blazing.

Maybe does, maybe he doesn't...it doesn't matter...all that matters is...all that matters is...

GO CARDS.

[The Beast]

Second, just because you're 200 stories high, doesn't mean that the Coalition can see you. This is the super-depopulated Rifts Earth, remember??

The Twin Towers were something like 200 stories tall themselves, but drive just a few short miles away and they, too, disappear -and that's on a relatively flat piece of Earth, not the overgrown canopy and forests that make up large swathes of Rifts North America.

WTC

With the construction of 7 World Trade Center in the 1980s, the World Trade Center had a total of seven buildings, but the most notable were the main twin towers, which each were 110 stories tall, stood over 1,350 feet (410 m) high, and occupied about one acre (208.71 square feet) of the total 16 acres (65,000 m2) of the site's land.

Some other site. Not sure of acuracy.

56. The towers could be seen from at least 20 miles away

Pretty sure something that's 200 stories tall is gonna be seen at least 25 miles away if the immediate terrain (around the observer, not Nxxla) allows it.

[taalismn]

still...it's a nice thought...that an ancient nasty piece of work like Nxla could be a thundering moron...
but that's not how AIs become ANCIENT Alien Intelligences...

It'd be a first for palladium. Maybe an ancient AI got to be ancient by going after 3rd rate worlds. In Nxla's case, Maybe he's use to worlds only magic and psionics reign where range is basically a few hundred feet at most., and dispite having a big IQ, takes things for granted and underestimates technology. Maybe he's use to coming into worlds guns blazing.

Maybe does, maybe he doesn't...it doesn't matter...all that matters is...all that matters is...

GO CARDS.

Anything's possible...

"Yeah, I got to be richer than Thraxus by returning cans for the deposit...'course it helps that I have a 300 thousand+ year lifespan..."

[cornholioprime]

Second, just because you're 200 stories high, doesn't mean that the Coalition can see you. This is the super-depopulated Rifts Earth, remember??

The Twin Towers were something like 200 stories tall themselves, but drive just a few short miles away and they, too, disappear -and that's on a relatively flat piece of Earth, not the overgrown canopy and forests that make up large swathes of Rifts North America.

WTC

With the construction of 7 World Trade Center in the 1980s, the World Trade Center had a total of seven buildings, but the most notable were the main twin towers, which each were 110 stories tall, stood over 1,350 feet (410 m) high, and occupied about one acre (208.71 square feet) of the total 16 acres (65,000 m2) of the site's land.

Some other site. Not sure of acuracy.

56. The towers could be seen from at least 20 miles away

Pretty sure something that's 200 stories tall is gonna be seen at least 25 miles away if the immediate terrain (around the observer, not Nxxla) allows it.

A]]Once again, the spotting of Nxla's arrival has to depend on EITHER/OR the Colaition Trooper looking in just the right direction at just the right time and within range of Nxla's appearance in a mostly depopulated country that covers millions upon millions of square miles

and

B]]It requires Nxla to stupidly manifest upon Rifts Earth out in the open and in plain sight.

[Balabanto]

Nxla 's best chance is to take over random animals. That's how it wins. Animals get -4 to their saves, making their roll effectively a 19 to save. Once he does that, his Soulless Xombie army of squrrels, dogs, cats, pigeons and sheep, which are now all MDC creatures, attack the Coalition en masse. Plus, there is nothing to prevent Soul Harvesters from roaming the Dinosaur Swamp, collecting Dinosaurs and other herbiverous monsters for Nxla to turn into creatures.

Realistically, once Nxla is discovered by any of the groups in the Magic Zone, it actually says in text...Even Alexander Duncson would ally with Dweomer against Nxla!

That means that even Dweomer would ally with Psyscape against Nxla. Any lesser agitation (Merc Town, Kingsdale, etc, anything within 300 miles) would probably also be contacted, in order to gain as many troops as possible. Nxla may be doomed, but it won't be at the hands of the Coalition.

Don't forget Queenston in Northern Ohio either. It's only 300 or 400 miles, and their True Atlantean Queen won't be friendly to Nxla either. Nxla's problem isn't the CS. It's the fact that he has the worst tactical positioning on all of Rifts Earth. Had he appeared somewhere in the Dinosaur Swamp, he wouldn't be nearly as screwed as he is.

[cornholioprime]

Nxla 's best chance is to take over random animals.

Animals don't have "souls" -at least not in the Palladium System.

Plus, there is nothing to prevent Soul Harvesters from roaming the Dinosaur Swamp, collecting Dinosaurs and other herbiverous monsters for Nxla to turn into creatures.

You're mixing up the Harvester process with the Soul Steal attack that is Nxla's.

Realistically, once Nxla is discovered by any of the groups in the Magic Zone, it actually says in text...Even Alexander Duncson would ally with Dweomer against Nxla!

By the time he gets to Rifts Earth, unless somebody is waiting RIGHT THERE where he comes through -and there's no real way to predict where that will be in advance -the Target Planet is probably, irrevocably, doomed.

That means that even Dweomer would ally with Psyscape against Nxla. Any lesser agitation (Merc Town, Kingsdale, etc, anything within 300 miles) would probably also be contacted, in order to gain as many troops as possible. Nxla may be doomed, but it won't be at the hands of the Coalition.

Don't forget Queenston in Northern Ohio either. It's only 300 or 400 miles, and their True Atlantean Queen won't be friendly to Nxla either. Nxla's problem isn't the CS. It's the fact that he has the worst tactical positioning on all of Rifts Earth. Had he appeared somewhere in the Dinosaur Swamp, he wouldn't be nearly as screwed as he is.

ALL of you, who make statements of this sort, forget one important thing:

Nxla and the Harvesters is virtually unknown to almost everyone on Rifts Earth, and as such is an unknown quantity that one just can't rouse Lord Splynncryth into battling based just on your word, at least not right away.

[The Beast]

A]]Once again, the spotting of Nxla's arrival has to depend on EITHER/OR the Colaition Trooper looking in just the right direction at just the right time and within range of Nxla's appearance in a mostly depopulated country that covers millions upon millions of square miles

Nxla's arrival has nothing to do with his size. Without any natural or magical size reduction he's gonna stick out like a sore thumb.

[Killer Cyborg]

Nxla's weakness is psychics.
The CS has MOM implants that can create psychics (not to mention already having a decent number of psychics on staff).

And don't they have a weapons gauntlet that lets even minor psychics create psi-swords?
Meaning that every psi-stalker and his dog-boy could have a psi-sword?

[Balabanto]

Doesn't matter. Here is the secret to the dinosaur army. Rules as Written.

Kill one phoenixi. Boom. Nxla shows up.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Do they have those? If so what book and where?? I wanna see um.


I agree something 200 stories tall is going to be hard to hide. More over the psychics are going to FEEL his popping into this dimension. Just like you feel it when a fat kid jumps in the pool. Something that powerful doesn't exist with out sending out serious shockwaves.

The Psi troops in the CS (( including hundreds of THOUSANDS of dog boys)) Are going to know something's up. He probably pings on those dog boys tracking senses from across the contenient.

They're gonna send some scouts to see what's going on. The psi's in the other groups will as well.

Sooner or later the CS are going to get a report from a relay station of some monster 200 stories tall.

I don't think they'd mobialize an army. They'd send some troops to check it out. When the were lost they'd send some with skeles and radio boosters. Video would get transmitted back to Chi town where they go "OH CRAP!" and see their flesh and blood troops getting taken over.

The ol boy is 200 stories tall, as opposed to 'giants' that are under 80 feet tall in Palladium.

Sooner than one would think the CS is going to nuke that thing. They sure didn't mind whipping them out on tolkeen and it was pretty close to them. Seeing a monster 200 stories tall that sucks the souls from your troops, is going to trigger a big knee jerk responce.

but even if the CS didn't mobilize that fast, the Sploog would feel it, and go looking. When they found out who/what it was they'd go after it too. If nothing else, to dimensionally port it away. Earth is good business, and remember. the Sploog can rift in troops in the drop of a hat. He holds like 2 or 3 other planets worth doesn't he? The only reason he doesn't flex TOO much on earth is a sort of MAD situation with other big boys.

This thing pops up on earth and the gloves are off. The Sploog would go **** on it. He's spent a while building up earth as his fleamarket and is NOT gong to let some guy with necrophilia take that away from him.

[cornholioprime]

A]]Once again, the spotting of Nxla's arrival has to depend on EITHER/OR the Colaition Trooper looking in just the right direction at just the right time and within range of Nxla's appearance in a mostly depopulated country that covers millions upon millions of square miles

Nxla's arrival has nothing to do with his size. Without any natural or magical size reduction he's gonna stick out like a sore thumb.

We already covered this in an earlier Post, and Nxla does have magical means to camouflage, transform, and hide himself...either through his own actions or those of his followers.

[MrMom]

so who wins Nxla or The Lord of the Deep? I doubt Nxla is gonna go for a stroll on the Sea floor with the LotD out there. That would make Islands out as well.

[MrMom]

[MrMom]

form blazing sword?

[DhAkael]

-Yawn-
Oh...this thread still active?
Sorry.
*goes back to sleep*

[cornholioprime]

Dude...you're arguing awfully hard on a thread that was obviously not meant to be taken quite so serious. I suggest a vacation...in the Bahamas. Mmm...beach front property.

Never mind; some people like to argue to get a kick of besting someone else.

Nah...more likely for pointing out someone else where they think that a given Argument is a specious one -kinda like what I'm about to do to you.

You know what??

You're absolutely correct. So, since you believe this Thread to be not all that 'serious,' you can go ahead and admit that you were incorrect in describing Nxla as a pushover.

He's a pushover though. CS Mind Melters -> Clairvoyance -> CS Battle Preparation -> Nxla = smoking boots. Give me the full resources of the Coalition resources and I'll bring you his head on a lance.

Really??

"Battle Preparation," you say??

How, exactly, is the CS going to do "Battle Preparation" on something that they've never seen before and whose capabilities they know NOTHING about?? Are you going to part the clouds of Rifts Earth and hand Nxla's stats to the High Command??

And while you're at it, would you please tell me again about this Alien Intelligence with literally millions of years of tactics, battle experience, and a 25 IQ Roll....that's just going to sit there in one spot, out in the open and visible, and wait for your guys to get there??

Skelebots for whom it will take time and planning to get them where they need to go -by which time they get there, Nxla will be long gone.

Depends on the quality of your Psychics Sensitives' visions, no?

Alex

Last time I checked, Psychic Visions aren't anywhere NEAR a sure thing, now are they??

Form what I remember of their talents, psychics would be lucky to get so much as an image of themselves and a bunch of their fellows as Soulless Xombies, now wouldn't they??
If you know of the Psychic Power/Ability that allows Sensitives to get detailed information such as "Nxla will be at the corner of Sunset and Vine in El Paso on Tuesday the 25th at 10:00 A.M. and won't move from that spot until the Coalition arrives," let me know what Book you find that in.

[dark brandon]

And while you're at it, would you please tell me again about this Alien Intelligence with literally millions of years of tactics, battle experience, and a 25 IQ Roll....that's just going to sit there in one spot, out in the open and visible, and wait for your guys to get there??

Where does it state he has millions of years of tactics and battle experience?

I'd argue that he is such a powerful and incredible creature that he rarely has to use tactics and battle experience once he's set in a world.

[The Baron of chaos]

You know is odd, I'm pretty sure i already posted a reply to this thread. And instead.
I just want to say something about Nxla's menace.
first off, the reason Nxla is feared is not his "muscles" , but his soul harvesting. While is hard for him enter physically in one dimension, once there he start harvesting souls like there is no tomorrow. And there is no real defence against soul harvesting, no armor will help. Nor building. Generally if cannot stop astral traveller, cannot stop sould harvesting. And more soul he harvest, the more powerfull it become and more soul he could harvest per day! Second, many think that he/it will stay always full stretched, and static like a totem. But it's alive, could move, and fly, albeit slowly. And i think he can put itself in horizontal position, if there is the need. He has also lot of necromantic powers, and as all good alien intelligence could summon some demons to do the dirty job. Oh he can also resurrect its minions at will. Also his psionic powers should be understimated. (oh for the chronicle he does have 40 ApM !!! I mean 40 ApM!! 10 x 200ft!! Of course this only physical attacks...nut nothing prevent him to use evil runic weapons and tW weapons..albeit i admit is unlikely)
I think is not the sort of enemy you should think as an easy target. For no one. And even less for the coalition, who is unable to get rid of federation of magic.

[Jesterzzn]

You guys are forgetting that Nxla is 200 gnomish stories tall. You see while the write-up does say that he is 200 stories tall, it also says that he is about 800 feet tall.

Now usually the first thing people say to that is, "They obviously meant 800 meters." But unfortunately right next to the 800 feet they also give his height in meters...244.

So he is 200 gnomish stories tall, or about 80 human stories.

[dark brandon]

You guys are forgetting that Nxla is 200 gnomish stories tall. You see while the write-up does say that he is 200 stories tall, it also says that he is about 800 feet tall.

Now usually the first thing people say to that is, "They obviously meant 800 meters." But unfortunately right next to the 800 feet they also give his height in meters...244.

So he is 200 gnomish stories tall, or about 80 human stories.

I'm sure that makes him over 9000's inches tall.

[The Baron of chaos]

Ahem. That was an in-joke, folks.

Nxla and the Lord of the Deep both have this much in common: they're basically giant parasitic batteries of energy sucking up the life sources around them. For what purpose? Nobody knows...

Well, thats a pretty much a thing all evil aline intelligence of certain magnitude have in common. Vampire intelligence, the Dark behind nightlords, the Evil Alien intelligenc ebehind the kreegor empire, the demon planets(the most awesome and powerfull monster of the megaverse as far as we know!)...All suck the soul and life force for some reason. Considering that all of them were at some point said to be related to the Old "evenslumberingwestillkickass" Ones, this could lead to grim hypothesis...

[cornholioprime]

Never mind; some people like to argue to get a kick of besting someone else.

Nah...more likely for pointing out someone else where they think that a given Argument is a specious one -kinda like what I'm about to do to you.

Except you can't. All you can do is cast things in stone, as if the things have to be a certain way. I say to the contrary: depending on circumstances, Nxla might easily take over OR he might be easily crushed be the CS. That is GM's call.

And by that one answer alone, you show your apparent inexperience in answering questions put forth to Board members.

EVERY question can potentially be solved by "Whatever the GM says."

HOWEVER........people don't ask questions within the Forums to get the standard answer, "GM's Call" -unless, of course, they specify such beforehand. They ask questions because they want answers based on canon declarations of things like Raw Stats, Story Setting, Battlefield Conditions, Comparative Power Levels, etc.

I haven't gone back to look at how long you've been a member here, so just a little bit of friendly rebuke (and take it in the spirit in which it is intended): "GM's Call," used as an answer to a given Forum Question where a canon response is expected, marks you as an utter noob to the Forums no matter how long you might have been playing the Game in RL.

How, exactly, is the CS going to do "Battle Preparation" on something that they've never seen before and whose capabilities they know NOTHING about?? Are you going to part the clouds of Rifts Earth and hand Nxla's stats to the High Command??

You are one more time arguing from a standpoint of given, fixed mechanics.

To answer your question in a manner that might enlighten you: they are going to prepare in a manner that a given GM deems fit.
And that in turn depends on the degree of military intelligence that the GM deems fit. Which may for the most part rely on the quality of Psychic visions. Which in turn are again a GM's call.

See above missive for the aforementioned friendly rebuke about using "GM's Call" as an answer.

And while you're at it, would you please tell me again about this Alien Intelligence with literally millions of years of tactics, battle experience, and a 25 IQ Roll....that's just going to sit there in one spot, out in the open and visible, and wait for your guys to get there??

Skelebots for whom it will take time and planning to get them where they need to go -by which time they get there, Nxla will be long gone.

Depends on the quality of your Psychics Sensitives' visions, no?

Alex

Last time I checked, Psychic Visions aren't anywhere NEAR a sure thing, now are they??

Usually, but given that the end of Earth as they know it might be NEAR, the quality of their visions might be very good to excellent if a GM decides it to be that way.

You're simply going to have to put more effort in your Responses.

Form what I remember of their talents, psychics would be lucky to get so much as an image of themselves and a bunch of their fellows as Soulless Xombies, now wouldn't they??

That in turn is once again subject to the Prime Directive: GM discretion. Which overrides Canon on any given day. Right?

Let me gues: even at this point, you don't understand why your 'answer' isn't really an 'answer,' do you??

If you know of the Psychic Power/Ability that allows Sensitives to get detailed information such as "Nxla will be at the corner of Sunset and Vine in El Paso on Tuesday the 25th at 10:00 A.M. and won't move from that spot until the Coalition arrives,"

It's sufficient if one Psychic knows recognizes the area in the vision (because he was born near or whatever) and if all the psychics have a feeling that doom is near. Right? They might even get success visions the nearer the point of entry comes.

Here's another, basic 'rule' about "X versus Y" scenarios: the more that you have to 'handicap' one side versus the other in order to score a 'win' for your side of the argument, the more you confirm that your position/argument is the weaker one.

Now you need to metagame Exact Locational Knowledge into your Coalition Sentry Psychic as well, do you??

let me know what Book you find that in.

No, I won't. Because I don't have to. Because if I as a GM deemed fit, I would say that it is so and then it would be so. End of story.

[cornholioprime]

And while you're at it, would you please tell me again about this Alien Intelligence with literally millions of years of tactics, battle experience, and a 25 IQ Roll....that's just going to sit there in one spot, out in the open and visible, and wait for your guys to get there??

Where does it state he has millions of years of tactics and battle experience?

I'd argue that he is such a powerful and incredible creature that he rarely has to use tactics and battle experience once he's set in a world.

Fair enough; we'll say that it so, and I'l agree with you, just for the sake of argument.

Even accepting that caveat, you still have a guy whose IQ is nearly off the scale and who, if he doesn't have millions of years in actual combat practice, he still, apparently, has millions of years of keeping himself alive.

I'm not saying that his 25 IQ means that every complex, multi-layered master plan goes without a hitch as if he were Thanos or the serial killer Jigsaw from the movies....but I am saying that he should at least be expected to make defensive preparations before, during, and after he gets here (otherwise, we have to make the asinine assumption that his Harvesters mysteriously fail to tell him about the hazards of Rifts Earth in advance).

Some of the folks here, in order to artificially 'win' their side of the argument, were turning him from "badass Alien Intelligence" into "idiotic stationary object that never hides itself."

Not to mention that they were creating scenarios in which he pops into oue dimension not only in plain sight, but in convenient, pure-luck visual range of wandering Coalition Patrols....low-level Grunts who also just happen to know EXACTLY what they are up against the microsecond that they see it.

[dark brandon]

Some of the folks here, in order to artificially 'win' their side of the argument, were turning him from "badass Alien Intelligence" into "idiotic stationary object that never hides itself."

Not to mention that they were creating scenarios in which he pops into oue dimension not only in plain sight, but in convenient, pure-luck visual range of wandering Coalition Patrols....low-level Grunts who also just happen to know EXACTLY what they are up against the microsecond that they see it.

Badass AI is simply perception. To some, he's so badass that the moment he can come to earth, he will, defences be damned. He's the stealer of souls. In most worlds if not all this is how he worked. I would also say that the majority of his worlds if not all, were not largely technically savvy. In most palladium books, if it's high tech, it's low magic (if any) and if it's high magic, it's usually low tech (Rifts being an exception, Phase world included since it's a type of source book). He probably only gets followers that are in high magic areas. And in a purely magical world he's pretty much has the upper hand. Most enemies would have to get in close to attack, where he would reign suprieme/unstoppable. So, his high IQ may be used to figure out how to get himself to the world, but not nessissarily anything beyond that.

So, in this case, in RIFTS world, he'd be unprepared. Even warned by his followers, he's a god and probably would only give fleeting thought. In fact, with his high IQ (much higher than probably most if not all of his followers) and the fact he's probably a dreaded old one, the thoughts and warnings of mear mortals would fall on deaf ears. Simply put, he doesn't seem to be the kind of guy who listens to his followers, pride makes him deaf and blind.

As for the CS, it's more of just a matter of time. If not the CS psychics, i'm sure the Psycape guys would know, and in all honesty why WOULDN"T they share the local?

[Killer Cyborg]

you still have a guy whose IQ is nearly off the scale and who, if he doesn't have millions of years in actual combat practice, he still, apparently, has millions of years of keeping himself alive.

I'm not saying that his 25 IQ means that every complex, multi-layered master plan goes without a hitch as if he were Thanos or the serial killer Jigsaw from the movies....but I am saying that he should at least be expected to make defensive preparations before, during, and after he gets here (otherwise, we have to make the asinine assumption that his Harvesters mysteriously fail to tell him about the hazards of Rifts Earth in advance).

Some of the folks here, in order to artificially 'win' their side of the argument, were turning him from "badass Alien Intelligence" into "idiotic stationary object that never hides itself."

Agreed.
One of the trickier aspects of role-playing is playing PCs or NPCs who are smarter than you are, because they'll think of things you'd never see coming.
So if you can think of any workable scenarios for Nxla's arrival to Rifts Earth to have a high chance of survival/success for him, so can he.
In fact, even if you can't, he probably can.

The highest recorded human IQ was 230, and there is some skepticism about the accuracy of that claim.
Nxla's IQ would be the equivalent of 250.

Tricky guy to out-think.

[taalismn]

Exactly...in playing super-intelligent adversaries, it can get to be pretty cheesy and tiring when the supposed superior lifeform(i.e., the GM, behind his mask of being an Alien Intelligence), has to REACT to the brilliant plans thought up by the mundanes(i.e., the PCs) with a "I'm a hundred thousand years old; surely you don't think I couldn't have thought of THAT and prepared ahead for it?!")...
Handled right, thought, it can be devastating..
Handled wrong, it turns into a shouting match between the players and GM...

[dark brandon]

Exactly...in playing super-intelligent adversaries, it can get to be pretty cheesy and tiring when the supposed superior lifeform(i.e., the GM, behind his mask of being an Alien Intelligence), has to REACT to the brilliant plans thought up by the mundanes(i.e., the PCs) with a "I'm a hundred thousand years old; surely you don't think I couldn't have thought of THAT and prepared ahead for it?!")...

It simply depends on what he's been exposed to.

I'm not saying Nxla has to be a dunce, but what has he been exposed to, what he has to prepare for, what he is willing to prepare for (Hell he could prepare for every little thing EVAR, but that would mean he would spend probably 1000 years just getting his base of operations ready) all come into play. Something tells me this isn't someone who takes his time with worlds. Considering he's linked to a world not just physically, but also via soulless, that he would have to be quick about entering and taking a world, otherwise someone will figure him out. For one it's not like he can hide all that well. from 500 or 200 miles out psychics can feel him.

[cornholioprime]

No, you just show that you didn't understand the original post. The original poster was speculating about whether the CS might be Nxla's greatest threat and he outlined a scenario, his take on the situation. Various people have responded and stated their assessment of the situation. All good and fine here.

The problem with you and specifically you is that you do cast in stone as if only your reading of the situation was right, when it ain't.

And the problem with you and only you is that you see my assessment of the situation as my way of saying that the outcome can ONLY go one way.

When, in fact, my series of rebuttals in this Thread have only served as a counter to d-brand's initial premise -that Nxla is a pushover.

D-brand used Canon readings of Nxla's stats and abilities to say why he believed 'X;' my rebuttal used Canon readings of Nxla's stats and abilities to say I thought that 'X' was a flawed outcome on d-brandon's part.

EVERY question can potentially be solved by "Whatever the GM says."

Even that is beside the point. The problem is you seem to think (and we have been through this in the debate on the scrupulous alignment before) that there if Nxla was to come to Earth it would have to work out a specific way, namely the way you proposed.

You NEVER saw me say that in ANY post in this Thread.

You merely saw me saying, repeatedly, 'D-brandon, why do you say that Nxla would fall in the manner that you say when he also has A,B, and C at his disposal??"

How you got "that is the ONLY way for a scenario to progress," nobody knows but you -and even then I might be hoping for too much.

When this is just of many possible scenarios. You criticized Dark Brandon for making Nxla dumb in his entering Earth; at the same time you proposed a different scenario as if this was the actual (or even only truth).

Wrong again, for the reasons listed above.

Now if you had said that you would have handled Nxla differently and that you as a Gm would given him magic scrolls, etc etc etc, that would have been a different thing.

I don't have to give Nxla this that or the other thing "as a GM" because d-brandon didn't open up a "What would you as a GM do?" discussion.

He opened a discussion based on Book Canon.

But at least give the appearance of challenging the legitimacy of Nxla coming to Earth as proposed by Dark Brandon and that is a challenge that cannot go unanswered.

I don't even know what you're getting at here; the syntax of the sentence is a little weird.

Try explaining it again in a different fashion.

If Dark Brandon or any other GM was to decide that Nxla would enter Earth and got quickly destroyed the CS (for example because the CS had sufficient psychic intelligence and Nxla had vastly understimated the CS), then this would an interpretation fully equal to yours.

Only if he makes up a House Rule Scenario in which Nxla makes a series of mistakes that don't at all match his known or implied behaviours, abilities, or resources.

His main logical flaw was to set up, from Canon, a listing of Nxla's weaknesses and the Coalition's strengths....and then dump Canon in order to make Nxla act in such a non-canon way that he would just sit there and turn himself into an easy target.

For the most part, it is logically inconsistent to mix both Canon and House Rule into one, cohesive Argument such as the one presented here in the OP; all that such an artificial construct serves to do is to artificially get a cheap 'win' for one side or the other.

What he proposed was much akin to me saying "Palladium Va,pires are SO easy to kill; all that I have to do is walk up to them and stake 'em in the heart" without mentioning that they can, and do, fight back in a variety of ways.

Now that we got that out the way, let's proceed.

You can't properly "proceed" until you get to the right place to start with.

So far you've failed to do even that.

HOWEVER........people don't ask questions within the Forums to get the standard answer, "GM's Call" -unless, of course, they specify such beforehand. They ask questions because they want answers based on canon declarations of things like Raw Stats, Story Setting, Battlefield Conditions, Comparative Power Levels, etc.

That shows that you might not be a newbie but that you haven't truly understood what goes on these boards. Most people here don't see it as strictly as you.

Wow.

That's a weird observation that you've got there.

At a glance, I can look around the entire series of Forums, and safely guesstimate that at least 75-80% of all of the Threads, in EVERY Forum asks Canon questions with the expectation of Canon answers (yes I routinely scan them all, even the Modules for which I don't own the Books).

As opposed to those Threads which are in the minority (to my eyes) wherein the Authors of the Threads who want to know how Players homebrew their Games, CLEARLY ask the other Forum Members to do so (we're doing just that in the "Dead Reign" section at this very moment; players who have the module are frustrated at how hard the Zombies are to kill and are bringing forth interesting modifications).

See the difference??

As evidenced by Dark Brandon's remark: "Dude...you're arguing awfully hard on a thread that was obviously not meant to be taken quite so serious. I suggest a vacation...in the Bahamas. Mmm...beach front property." I would submit this to you as the first piece of evidence that a substantial part of the board, including me, doesn't give that much of a damn about what you consider to be Canon.

Since most Threads in most of the sub-Forums are PRECISELY about Players asking Canon questions -both old and new -I would submit that you don't know what you're talking about.

Perhaps you'll bother yourself to give a damn about that.

All that Dark Brandon did was talk about this thought experiment of his. It has been informat chit-chat by nature, not because he was looking for you about canon declarations about Nxla. In fact, it's my impression that there are a good deal of people around who couldn't care less what you (or anyone else) considers canon declaration.

Almost as important as the words themselves, is the ability to "read between the lines."

To wit:

A]] d-brandon wanted a Canon discussion of how easy Nxla would be to take out because he kept presenting Nxla's weaknesses against the Coalition in Canon terms.

B]] Just as importantly, d-brandon wanted a discussion because he expended the energy to print out the Thread in the first place; with very rare exception, no one puts out a Thread without wanting anybody to say anything about it.

C]] Third, the very fact that d-brandon CONTINUED to engage me with Canon to buttress his arguments, and didn't tell me that he wanted to take it in another, possibly non-canon direction, indicates that he did, indeed, want to create a canon scenario.

I just did my part by pointing out the Canon that also applies to Nxla and which he didn't consider, as a counterpoint.

And to prove that your above remark my inexperience is incorrect I would like to point out that I did raise the term Canon in my last post because I knew that you'd bother me with that nonsense again.

If you think that Canon is nonsense, then don't participate in Canon discussions.

Just pop in every time you see a Thread, type out, "GM's Call!!" and then excuse yourself again.

I haven't gone back to look at how long you've been a member here, so just a little bit of friendly rebuke (and take it in the spirit in which it is intended): "GM's Call," used as an answer to a given Forum Question where a canon response is expected, marks you as an utter noob to the Forums no matter how long you might have been playing the Game in RL.

Talking about Canon where informal talk about a thought experiment has been clearly expected by Dark Brandon marks you as an ideologist, someone who is prone to misreading reality based on his own interests/conceptions.

If d-brandon wanted something other than Canon, he would've said so; he's one of the Board's veterans, and he has had NO trouble whatsoever in creating non-Canon threads in the past.

And he has ALWAYS been clear about when he wants one type of answer or the other.

And that in turn depends on the degree of military intelligence that the GM deems fit. Which may for the most part rely on the quality of Psychic visions. Which in turn are again a GM's call.

I guess that I'll just keep repeating the same thing until it sinks in:

d-brand asked a Canon-specific question. Psychic visions, in canon, aren't anywhere near as detailed as some folks make them out to be (which is what makes them fun to play with).

See above missive for the aforementioned friendly rebuke about using "GM's Call" as an answer.

You are simply mistaken about the nature of this forum if you think that the only or even the major purpose of this forum is talking about what's Canon and what's not.

Covered above; most Players specifically specify when they want to see the one or the other.

You're simply going to have to put more effort in your Responses.

I am content with the quality of my responses if they manage to reduce an opposing debater into someone who just claims that my responses aren't good instead of sticking to the issue and providing argument.

Once your arguments are determined to be poor ones, it isn't my job to 'provide argument' on flawed logic...or follow the person who is putting forth that flawed logic further down the road.

Here's another, basic 'rule' about "X versus Y" scenarios: the more that you have to 'handicap' one side versus the other in order to score a 'win' for your side of the argument, the more you confirm that your position/argument is the weaker one.

No, you misunderstand what I am trying to convey to you: your acting as if the rules only allow for one interpretation and according this one interpretation, namely coincidentally your interpretation (the one which makes most sense to you), things would have to work like this and then this and then that.

Once again, you are incorrect in stating that the body of my responses to d.b. are "this can ONLY happen this way!" scenarios.

They are, again, merely ways of pointing out how he was flawed in effectively saying "Nxla uses these powers here but not those over there."

BIG difference between that Argument and saying "Nxla can ONLY do things this way!!"

As for the issue at hand: you say that I am handicapping one side vs the other. This is a slanted interpretation. For example, I could argue that in my world psychic sensitives could always gets such visions in the case of impending doom.

To make it abundantly clear to you: I am not arguing for any possible scenario or against anyone's thoughts on how it would go.

Neither am I.....something else that you continue to misunderstand.

I am arguing against you attitude of: "It would have to be like this, this and this. This is Canon and everything else is wrong."

When you see me saying, "it can ONLY be like this!!" point it out to me.

I say, and have said all along, in answer to d-bran, questions to the effect of "how is it that you're using ONLY these capabilities and not those if you're setting up a canon scenario as to what Nxla would do? Aren't you artificially stacking the deck when you do that? Why are you assuming only flawless actions on the part of the CS, but loading down Nxla with a whole series of tactical and operational mistakes and not granting him the ability to make smart preparations of his own in return?"



Show me where, in the body of my Posts to this Thread, I have done otherwise.
And bring up SPECIFIC examples of it.

[dark brandon]

And the problem with you and only you is that you see my assessment of the situation as my way of saying that the outcome can ONLY go one way.

When, in fact, my series of rebuttals in this Thread have only served as a counter to d-brand's initial premise -that Nxla is a pushover.

actually, it seems to be more just corni. Honestly, I don't see anyone anywhere saying "this is the ONLY" way it can come out. In fact...the only person who seems to declair any sort of absolute is you

D-brand used Canon readings of Nxla's stats and abilities to say why he believed 'X;' my rebuttal used Canon readings of Nxla's stats and abilities to say I thought that 'X' was a flawed outcome on d-brandon's part.

You bringing up his Deific teleport (which I could argue since it's NOT in his write up, unlike other AI's he doesn't have it) and soul tendrils I feel do not make my outcome flawed. CS is still the only nation that would be able to last an attack, and due enough damage in a single instance to kill him.

He opened a discussion based on Book Canon.

Canon or not, CS still holds the best chance to kill him.

Only if he makes up a House Rule Scenario in which Nxla makes a series of mistakes that don't at all match his known or implied behaviours, abilities, or resources.

His main logical flaw was to set up, from Canon, a listing of Nxla's weaknesses and the Coalition's strengths....and then dump Canon in order to make Nxla act in such a non-canon way that he would just sit there and turn himself into an easy target.

I disagree. Your interpretation that an IQ of 25 is different than mine. Neither one of us are using canon when using his implied behaviors or resources. His abilities are up for discussion, one that I really don't CARE to get into.

What he proposed was much akin to me saying "Palladium Va,pires are SO easy to kill; all that I have to do is walk up to them and stake 'em in the heart" without mentioning that they can, and do, fight back in a variety of ways.

I think what I most disagree with is for some reason you feel your interpretation is any better than mine.

Since most Threads in most of the sub-Forums are PRECISELY about Players asking Canon questions -both old and new -I would submit that you don't know what you're talking about.

You're mistaken.

We have palladium books Q and A. A Place to post your game questions and rule clarifications. Once answered the post will go into the Games F.A.Q. Archive.

Rifts is: Ley Line walkers, Juicers, Coalition Troops, Samas, Tolkeen, & The Federation Of Magic. Come together here to discuss all things Rifts®.

That is not to say canon questions don't get asked here...but it's more than that.

A]] d-brandon wanted a Canon discussion of how easy Nxla would be to take out because he kept presenting Nxla's weaknesses against the Coalition in Canon terms.

B]] Just as importantly, d-brandon wanted a discussion because he expended the energy to print out the Thread in the first place; with very rare exception, no one puts out a Thread without wanting anybody to say anything about it.

C]] Third, the very fact that d-brandon CONTINUED to engage me with Canon to buttress his arguments, and didn't tell me that he wanted to take it in another, possibly non-canon direction, indicates that he did, indeed, want to create a canon scenario.

[/quote]

No, I was just making a thread to prove that CS is awesome and when/if psyscape fails to stop nxla, it'll be the CS who brings him down and frees all the souls due to Nxla's vunlernability to guns.

Nxla: "Bullets...my only weakness"

[cornholioprime]

And the problem with you and only you is that you see my assessment of the situation as my way of saying that the outcome can ONLY go one way.

When, in fact, my series of rebuttals in this Thread have only served as a counter to d-brand's initial premise -that Nxla is a pushover.

actually, it seems to be more just corni. Honestly, I don't see anyone anywhere saying "this is the ONLY" way it can come out. In fact...the only person who seems to declair any sort of absolute is you

My premises declaring Nxla to NOT be a pushover were no more "absolute" than yours were in declaring that he was.

D-brand used Canon readings of Nxla's stats and abilities to say why he believed 'X;' my rebuttal used Canon readings of Nxla's stats and abilities to say I thought that 'X' was a flawed outcome on d-brandon's part.

You bringing up his Deific teleport (which I could argue since it's NOT in his write up, unlike other AI's he doesn't have it) and soul tendrils I feel do not make my outcome flawed. CS is still the only nation that would be able to last an attack, and due enough damage in a single instance to kill him.

Now you ALMOST get it....almost.

You use Canon stats to describe how Nxla would fall if he tried to stand against the Coalition, which is fair enough....but, then, you simultaneously IGNORE the resources that Nxla has at his disposal to avoid, counterattack, or just plain slip in unnoticed in the first place.

To restate an analogy brought up in the last Post:

You saying that you find Vampires easy to kill by just walking up and staking them in the heart...good.

You saying that you find Vampires easy to kill WITHOUT taking into account their own defenses and counterattacks...bad.

He opened a discussion based on Book Canon.

Canon or not, CS still holds the best chance to kill him.

Irrelevant to the discussion. The CS holds the best chance to kill almost everybody....but that's not what is being discussed here.

Only if he makes up a House Rule Scenario in which Nxla makes a series of mistakes that don't at all match his known or implied behaviours, abilities, or resources.

His main logical flaw was to set up, from Canon, a listing of Nxla's weaknesses and the Coalition's strengths....and then dump Canon in order to make Nxla act in such a non-canon way that he would just sit there and turn himself into an easy target.

I disagree. Your interpretation that an IQ of 25 is different than mine. Neither one of us are using canon when using his implied behaviors or resources. His abilities are up for discussion, one that I really don't CARE to get into.

You're contradicting yourself.

That is to say: then why did you raise those selfsame Abilities of Nxla's in your Opening Post??

What he proposed was much akin to me saying "Palladium Va,pires are SO easy to kill; all that I have to do is walk up to them and stake 'em in the heart" without mentioning that they can, and do, fight back in a variety of ways.

I think what I most disagree with is for some reason you feel your interpretation is any better than mine.

IF your "interpretation" -in ANY issue - unfairly 'handicaps' one side or the other in order to artificially make a point, then yes, anyone who does the best job that they can of presenting the strengths of BOTH sides does indeed have a better "interpretation" than you do.

If you had even made the teeniest bit of effort to take in Nxla's own means of support, the (admittedly limited) magics at his command, et al., then your premise wouldn't look nearly as weak.

Instead, you not only made the guy show up out in the open, you also put a conveniently-placed Coalition patrol in place, AND allowed the guy to call in an attack, AND you made Nxla just sit there and wait for the attackers to arrive, AND you stripped Nxla of his own support base -in this case, high-powered Harvesters and armies of Xombies.

Do a better job of representing 'the other side' -even if it leads to a conclusion that you might not like to see -and you'll not get this sort of "What the hell? That scenario makes NO sense!" response from me, or anyone else.

Since most Threads in most of the sub-Forums are PRECISELY about Players asking Canon questions -both old and new -I would submit that you don't know what you're talking about.

You're mistaken.

We have palladium books Q and A. A Place to post your game questions and rule clarifications. Once answered the post will go into the Games F.A.Q. Archive.

Rifts is: Ley Line walkers, Juicers, Coalition Troops, Samas, Tolkeen, & The Federation Of Magic. Come together here to discuss all things Rifts®.

That is not to say canon questions don't get asked here...but it's more than that.

And yet the vast majority of Threads within those Forum subsections deal with Canon questions ("Can I get TW enhancements for my Wilk's??" "Can you add SDC bonuses to your character if he is an MDC being?" "Do True Atlanteans suffer the non-Maxi-Man penalty for having six tattoos or less?" and on and on and on.)

I'll see your "you're mistaken" and raise you a "you're flat out wrong."

A]] d-brandon wanted a Canon discussion of how easy Nxla would be to take out because he kept presenting Nxla's weaknesses against the Coalition in Canon terms.

B]] Just as importantly, d-brandon wanted a discussion because he expended the energy to print out the Thread in the first place; with very rare exception, no one puts out a Thread without wanting anybody to say anything about it.

C]] Third, the very fact that d-brandon CONTINUED to engage me with Canon to buttress his arguments, and didn't tell me that he wanted to take it in another, possibly non-canon direction, indicates that he did, indeed, want to create a canon scenario.

No, I was just making a thread to prove that CS is awesome and when/if psyscape fails to stop nxla, it'll be the CS who brings him down and frees all the souls due to Nxla's vunlernability to guns.

Nxla: "Bullets...my only weakness"

With the "stay right there, Nxla, 'til I get back" scenario that you cooked up, who wouldn't fall to the CS -or anyone else??

But it's a whooooole hell of a lot harder to get things done when you have The Enemy -Nxla -fight back and use his own resources as effectively as you have the CS use theirs, isn't it??