Megadamage melee weapons

[The Baron of chaos]

One thing i puzzle is how do you imagine the damage they do on frail SDC living beings?
Damage of energy weapon is easy to imagine and understand why it completely disintegrate a person. But a vibro blade or magic sword? I mean a chop would cut istantly flesh and bones like they were jelly, but a stab won't hurtn more than being stabbed to death by normal knife.
Just curious my personal idea is that the impact of MDC melee weapon is so much to cause not just a wound but also a series of correlated fractures and lacerations aroudn the wound, like being impaled by a train.

[The Galactus Kid]

...like being impaled by a train.

Yeah, about like that.

[Seneca]

I see it like this. Imagine that a knife has a high frequency vibro-field oscillating at a few thousand times a second. It would sink into a slab of beef like a butcher knife would a tub of butter. No resistance even from bone with very little force. The oscillating field by itself probably does extra damage all by itself to flesh and bone. Effectively like a mini-chainsaw working inside you.

[Rockwolf66]

I have a couple of Supernaturally strong characters who use MDC reproductions of SDC Melee weapons. While as you put it a stab really doesn't make a larger wound channel in itself. the strenght and power of the user allows the weapon to be used with levels of force that would shatter a normal blade and to create wounds that make those of a Zweihander* in those cold steel Proof Videos look tame.


Seen in the Cold Steel "Sword Proof" video nearly cutting a side of beef in half lenghtwise.

[MikelAmroni]

A vibro-knife would be not unlike using an electric carving knife on the contents of a can of spam. The cuts would be jagged and massive, and much bigger than the actual blade. There is little to no resistance

[cornholioprime]

One thing i puzzle is how do you imagine the damage they do on frail SDC living beings?
Damage of energy weapon is easy to imagine and understand why it completely disintegrate a person. But a vibro blade or magic sword? I mean a chop would cut istantly flesh and bones like they were jelly, but a stab won't hurtn more than being stabbed to death by normal knife.
Just curious my personal idea is that the impact of MDC melee weapon is so much to cause not just a wound but also a series of correlated fractures and lacerations aroudn the wound, like being impaled by a train.

Depends upon the Weapon in question.

A regular MDC implement does no more damage than its SDC counterpart -depending, of course, upon the strength of the wielder.

Energy (melee) weapons do additional energy damage that manifest themselves as VERY nasty wounds in an SDC character -actually, in the 'real world' all that energy being pumped into an SDC fleshie would probably leave only hamburger, or at least a hole suitable for viewing movies in Widescreen Mode.

Magic melee weapons magically impart all that awesome damage into your body all at once, with what would likely be the same chunky salsa effects of the energy wep above. And of course, many if not most of those weps have a "don't touch me" effect that will do the exact same thing if they are picked up by opposing alignments (and sometimes even if they are just touched).

So.....if your GM says to you one in a campaign one day, "right there in a clearing is a Sword that looks to be of magical origin and which hums with power," maybe you should get suspicious as to why it's just sitting there out in the open, unclaimed, and ask him to describe for you if all the ground in a fifty-foot radius of the weapon is stained dark red or brown with bits of bone fragment strewn all about......

[Starmage21]

A vibro-knife would be not unlike using an electric carving knife on the contents of a can of spam. The cuts would be jagged and massive, and much bigger than the actual blade. There is little to no resistance

I like this. My own explaination is that there was simply no resistance, and the cuts are super-clean.

This is just much better explaination for vibro-weapons.

[cornholioprime]

A vibro-knife would be not unlike using an electric carving knife on the contents of a can of spam. The cuts would be jagged and massive, and much bigger than the actual blade. There is little to no resistance

I like this. My own explaination is that there was simply no resistance, and the cuts are super-clean.

This is just much better explaination for vibro-weapons.

Hey...all that energy has to go somewhere.

[Captain Shiva]

One thing i puzzle is how do you imagine the damage they do on frail SDC living beings?
Damage of energy weapon is easy to imagine and understand why it completely disintegrate a person. But a vibro blade or magic sword? I mean a chop would cut istantly flesh and bones like they were jelly, but a stab won't hurtn more than being stabbed to death by normal knife.
Just curious my personal idea is that the impact of MDC melee weapon is so much to cause not just a wound but also a series of correlated fractures and lacerations aroudn the wound, like being impaled by a train.

According to Chaos Earth, a vibroblade makes a quick, clean, almost painless cut. But magical weapons might be different, some might be deliberately designed to hurt as much as possible.

[Killer Cyborg]

According to Chaos Earth, a vibroblade makes a quick, clean, almost painless cut. But magical weapons might be different, some might be deliberately designed to hurt as much as possible.

Seriously?
That's incredibly messed up.

[Rimmerdal]

What about hitting an arm?

Nothing critical to immediately kill you there..I'm thinking you'll just get new arm....Right?

[The Baron of chaos]

According to Chaos Earth, a vibroblade makes a quick, clean, almost painless cut. But magical weapons might be different, some might be deliberately designed to hurt as much as possible.

Seriously?
That's incredibly messed up.

And I'll explain why, as if vibro blade do such wounds, apart the bone cutting, they won't do so much more damage than a regular blade. After all even regular blades can chop bones with enough strength, and while the blood loss could be a problem, is far from megadamage. I mean take average "deadmeat" Joe, He has P.E. 10, 15 SDC and 25 HP. He is stabbed with a vibroknife 1d6 Megadamage. The roll give a 4, that is 400 SDC. Dropping him to -360 HP. Now how this will translate GRAPHICALLY? Why he suffered all that much damage? Compare it form being back stabbed by a normal knives handled by a very strong guy(Augmented strength of 35, thats +20 damage bonus) The knife roll is a 4 again, that with strength bonus is 24, and is critical striek too(backstabbing), so is 48, reducing our poor "deadmeat" to -8 Hit Points. The wound is terrible and the knife had likely borke some bones, CSI teach us that he is likely to experience extreme blood loss and depending of location of the wound a more or less fast death. What does the vibroblade more than the average knife to the poor carcass of "deadmeat" joe, outside the sheer damage points, I'm talking about the exact typology of damage in a world where did those extra 352 point of damage come from?
Ironically this si a problem only for "cutting" megadamage melee weapon.
Blunt weapons , fist included, are easier. The sheer impact shatter 80% fo the skeleton, cause most internal organs to explode, flooding the innard fo "deadmeat" with blood, gastric juice and else. And this for low level blunt megadamage 1-6 point of blunt megadamage. Stronger than this and the body start exploding on impact, liike a watermelon thrown in front of running train! Against inorganic SDC megadamage blunt weapon ,when not smashing it to piece, leave small craters with diameter equal to impact surface diameter(punch, the side of the hammer , etc.) plus 4 inches diameter per point of damage.

[Captain Shiva]

What about hitting an arm?

Nothing critical to immediately kill you there..I'm thinking you'll just get new arm....Right?

I believe that if a limb is severed, that there is a good chance of dying right away from shock(in game terms, I guess you would save vs. coma/death,) assuming you make a successful roll, you then have to deal with the issue of bleeding to death, so maybe you would need to get medical attention with 1d4 melee rounds? Any EMTs out there on the boards could provide better answers then I could.

[Captain Shiva]

According to Chaos Earth, a vibroblade makes a quick, clean, almost painless cut. But magical weapons might be different, some might be deliberately designed to hurt as much as possible.

Seriously?
That's incredibly messed up.

And I'll explain why, as if vibro blade do such wounds, apart the bone cutting, they won't do so much more damage than a regular blade. After all even regular blades can chop bones with enough strength, and while the blood loss could be a problem, is far from megadamage. I mean take average "deadmeat" Joe, He has P.E. 10, 15 SDC and 25 HP. He is stabbed with a vibroknife 1d6 Megadamage. The roll give a 4, that is 400 SDC. Dropping him to -360 HP. Now how this will translate GRAPHICALLY? Why he suffered all that much damage? Compare it form being back stabbed by a normal knives handled by a very strong guy(Augmented strength of 35, thats +20 damage bonus) The knife roll is a 4 again, that with strength bonus is 24, and is critical striek too(backstabbing), so is 48, reducing our poor "deadmeat" to -8 Hit Points. The wound is terrible and the knife had likely borke some bones, CSI teach us that he is likely to experience extreme blood loss and depending of location of the wound a more or less fast death. What does the vibroblade more than the average knife to the poor carcass of "deadmeat" joe, outside the sheer damage points, I'm talking about the exact typology of damage in a world where did those extra 352 point of damage come from?
Ironically this si a problem only for "cutting" megadamage melee weapon.
Blunt weapons , fist included, are easier. The sheer impact shatter 80% fo the skeleton, cause most internal organs to explode, flooding the innard fo "deadmeat" with blood, gastric juice and else. And this for low level blunt megadamage 1-6 point of blunt megadamage. Stronger than this and the body start exploding on impact, liike a watermelon thrown in front of running train! Against inorganic SDC megadamage blunt weapon ,when not smashing it to piece, leave small craters with diameter equal to impact surface diameter(punch, the side of the hammer , etc.) plus 4 inches diameter per point of damage.

I had actually never given that aspect of it much thought. I think I get what you are saying:that a 1d4 MD viroblade might not make a wound that is not larger or deeper than a 1d4 SDC/HP knife. Maybe you should just ignore what I refernced above from Chaos Earth, and just say that the vibrations just turn the tissue surrounding the cut into a mess resembling a cat that has been sent through a meat grinder tail first.

[Starmage21]

According to Chaos Earth, a vibroblade makes a quick, clean, almost painless cut. But magical weapons might be different, some might be deliberately designed to hurt as much as possible.

Seriously?
That's incredibly messed up.

And I'll explain why, as if vibro blade do such wounds, apart the bone cutting, they won't do so much more damage than a regular blade. After all even regular blades can chop bones with enough strength, and while the blood loss could be a problem, is far from megadamage. I mean take average "deadmeat" Joe, He has P.E. 10, 15 SDC and 25 HP. He is stabbed with a vibroknife 1d6 Megadamage. The roll give a 4, that is 400 SDC. Dropping him to -360 HP. Now how this will translate GRAPHICALLY? Why he suffered all that much damage? Compare it form being back stabbed by a normal knives handled by a very strong guy(Augmented strength of 35, thats +20 damage bonus) The knife roll is a 4 again, that with strength bonus is 24, and is critical striek too(backstabbing), so is 48, reducing our poor "deadmeat" to -8 Hit Points. The wound is terrible and the knife had likely borke some bones, CSI teach us that he is likely to experience extreme blood loss and depending of location of the wound a more or less fast death. What does the vibroblade more than the average knife to the poor carcass of "deadmeat" joe, outside the sheer damage points, I'm talking about the exact typology of damage in a world where did those extra 352 point of damage come from?
Ironically this si a problem only for "cutting" megadamage melee weapon.
Blunt weapons , fist included, are easier. The sheer impact shatter 80% fo the skeleton, cause most internal organs to explode, flooding the innard fo "deadmeat" with blood, gastric juice and else. And this for low level blunt megadamage 1-6 point of blunt megadamage. Stronger than this and the body start exploding on impact, liike a watermelon thrown in front of running train! Against inorganic SDC megadamage blunt weapon ,when not smashing it to piece, leave small craters with diameter equal to impact surface diameter(punch, the side of the hammer , etc.) plus 4 inches diameter per point of damage.

I had actually never given that aspect of it much thought. I think I get what you are saying:that a 1d4 MD viroblade might not make a wound that is not larger or deeper than a 1d4 SDC/HP knife. Maybe you should just ignore what I refernced above from Chaos Earth, and just say that the vibrations just turn the tissue surrounding the cut into a mess resembling a cat that has been sent through a meat grinder tail first.

remember it only takes a 1/3 - 1/4 inch penetration of the torso to cause death IRL. Getting a knife in someone takes a little bit of effort, especially if youre stabbing at the chest area(where you have to push it through bone), whereas a mega-damage knife is going to just slide in with very little effort. That means the wound is very likely to be bigger than a normal knife because a human is never going to perfectly insert it and withdraw(its going to move laterally a little bit, especially with a lot of power behind it).

A super-clean wound is just as effective as a hamburger wound. The net result is the target dies a very bloody death, or in the very least loses a limb for the effort, and thats still going to put them out of combat. RUE has an entire section on MD damage to an SDC body for a reason. It IS a little crappy to kill characters off just because the bad-guy had an MD pen-laser that got past the coalition patrols.

[Killer Cyborg]

if I jab a blue whale with a vibro knife, does the whole thing explode?

Probably not.
I'm pretty sure that a blue whale has more than 600 SDC.

[Crazy Lou]

so if he stabs it 3x?

[Killer Cyborg]

so if he stabs it 3x?

Yeah, probably that'd do it.
Or 10x.

Which is why it's messed up if the area of effect of the blade is only the same as the size of the blade.

[Rimmerdal]

I'm seeing the issue is size target versus weapon..that whale example pretty much says it. I'll keep that in mind as I GM in the future..

[Wise_Owl]

This is an issue with HP systems in general, and the MDC system in particular; In HP systems, HP represent an abstarct 'total' health, rather than specific wounds. The ability to target and inflict crippling wounds isn't really dealt with within the batteries of the system; Granted one can Ad Hoc it, but still.
To whit; The Issue of M.D.C. as a sort of 'insta-kill' on people has never made a whole lot of tense. Mega-damage conflates and combines two broad issues; The Ammount of Deformation to a target caused by an attack(what I would call it's 'damage) and it's ability to inflict that(It's penetration). While both these traits measure something similar(the ability of something to withstand damage and destruction) MDC combines them both in a way that acts 'strange' sometimes.
To me, int his case, the answer is obvious; The In-Game purpose of M.D.C. hand weapons is multif-old, but principally because we all want cool Sword Fights and such, and it sucks if that can't happen to anybody wearing environmental body armour. There are a range of potential solutions, some 'clean' some a little ichy.
Converting the 100 SDC to 1 MDC rate to something lower works well. Say 30 to 1. This means the inflicted damage from a single MD attack, while still considerable, doesn't go into the same levels of insanity. A person has the 'potential' to survive an MDC attack to a body part.
You could assign S.D.C. and HP values to different body parts, with a maximum amount of damage a part could take before being destroyed and thus no more damage being taken(something a little similar to the way Gurps handles Hit Locations).
A realistic, if complicated method, would be to assume that M.D.C Hand Weapons, do Mega-Damage to M.D.C. structures and opponents, but depending on their type, might do less damage to S.D.C. Targets.
I've used variants on these for different games, and haven't come up with a perfect solution, though I do use a lower conversion rate for S.D.C. to M.D.C., and limit the damage you can recieve to a limb to 1/3 your total HP(not S.D.C., your S.D.C. can be whiped out by a single attack, but if your arm is blown off, while it's life threatening, and needs to be taken care of, it's not insta death).
I tend to modify systems in a way that makes sense within the context of the world, instead of trying to take a system that seems a bit unusual or silly to me and than trying to explain it within the world. Doesn't work all the time but still;
As far as I can tell, a Vibro-Blade wound would probably not, on the surface, look much better/worse than a knife wound, save possibly for more extensive, since it would encounter negligable resistance. It would be a cleaner cut, I'd imagine.

[The Baron of chaos]

Wise owl, I take my hat off to you. That's the most reasonable and pragmatic answer to the thread. I agree with most you say.
I want to add some thign i've thought re-reading Vibro-blades descriptions. Vibro Blades generate an energy field(what type of energy is not known), that is not exaclty form fitting. So yes the woudn woudl be tad larger. As for clean wound they would do that, except that they do not actually cut, but disintegrate, like millions of tiny small chainsaws or sledgehammers. Still MDC melee weapons offer great chance to survive than splash megadamage weapons. For laser don't know. I won't touch the arguments about how a small beam of energy can deliver so much SDC damage with a ten foot pole.

[Steeler49er]

A few (Good) points:
►As to PEN value and outright damage values getting meshed together in PB (in both MDC & SDC enviros)-All of you NEED to stand-up and say something about that to Kevin, that it Is something that exists in Real World Physics as well as Most RPG's on the market... And it works (as well as making an Awefull lotta sence to have).
Guns, Knifes, Claws-etc. in most games have a PV (of which is Only optional in PB to have-ala Compendium of Contemporary Weaponsrules). White Wolf has soak, R. Talsorian Games has SD for its games, SLA Industries by Nightfall & Hogshead Games (later bought by Wizards of the Coast-WotC) had Its system, Marvel FASERIP had IT's own thing going with Edged weapons Vs. Blunt...
And when GMing Rifts & other PB games I use The U.P.Score System which uses a variant of PB's; MDC, AR, & PV systems with the Moh's hardness chart.

THIS would help in cutting down (pun intended) the confusion.


►I Also use W.S. for Wound Size to regulate just how much Maximum damage can be done to a target-☺As in the above question by "Kikkoman" about Blue Whales, Clearly a whale isn't going to take much damage from a Vibro-Scalpel-even after 10 hits due to the sheer thickness of it's skin... It's going to be about as effective as a Normal (But Really very sharp Knife).
W.S. is, in my games, Additionally used to determine increased blood loss (Past PB's 1 point per wound-per miniute) for when dealing with Larger weapons. A Claymore, Shot gun and Chain Saw will all have Much greater W.S. + Tissue Damage than a mere pocket Knife. Much more blood loss.

►As to Vibro Blades, The confusion comes from Nerdom Vs. Geekdom, in that Nerds are Geeks with smarts, where as Geeks are potential Nerds that ended up staying in their mommas basement and chose to consider Star Trek and D&D Excellent sources to get Real World physics knowlegde from (IE they actually don't know what the FRACK They're talking about!).
The physic behind Vibro Blades ORIGINAL meaning have been lost to people because a Nerd musta once tried to explain to a Geek (their less educatable cousin!) how one worked and, after maybe an hour or so of going Nowhere with their eyes gazen over clade, just chose to equate it all to an Electic Turkey Knife an be done with it!
☻As such there are now TWO distinct versions of how and What Vibro Blades (knife, sword, axe-etc.) are and how they work.



TYPE 1) The NEW version: This one is nothing more than, as you guys have put it "A chain saw/Electric knife". It runs by having a "Sonic Generator" in it's hilt and generates a vibrating feild that (in theory should) Chop, hack, and serate the crud outta flesh... Unfortunately in realitoe's the damage would wind up being very low (still meaner than a common knife) than most think. THIS version is what the Star Wars RPG uses. It would Also have minimal to nihl-increases in Penetration Value (PV) and thus is never likely to do MDC levels of damage.


TYPE 2) The REAL version: This is the one that PB (and Kevin) described are as using. THIS version creates an heretounknown energy feild that permeates the weapon/object in question and puts it's molicules into an excellerated state of Resonant Oscillation that let's it catch up to oscillation/resonance feilds of Other much tougher forms of matter.
☺ How it works and what that techno bable all means.
In physics one comes to learn that ALL known matter in the universe resonates (VIBRATES-hence the Vibro confusion) back and forth. The harder the matter, the faster it moves. Unless excited (like via heat) Gases tend to move/vibrate/resonate slowly like June Bugs in Molasses... In july. Liquids Vibrate much faster and Hard Solids (IE:Metal) move at ridiculous fast speeds. Now when one trys to cut "some-ting hird don'tcha know", it is the job of your Sharp instrument, to focuse all your might into the Smallest strike zone possible to do the most Tactically sound form of damage (Sharp Vs. Blunt), BUT this is hard to do because Atoms are Nigh-Invulnerable (they-their electron shell, can only really be broken via Nuclear levels of pressure, or from internal reaction from External interactions-like that of a Nuclear explosion), and as such what your trying to REALLY BREAK is the molecular bonds betwix atom that holds them together...
Those CAN be broken.

The problem comes from the fact that matter, for hard thinggys, happens to be vibrating (IN PLACE) at such incredably high speeds that your Knifes atomic point & edging is coming allot of the time into to contact with your Targets Atoms (which in effect are jumping into the way) instead of cutting the molecular bonds...

As best described in R. Talsorian Games Cyber Gen (the year 2025 continuation for their Cyberpunk 2020 book line) when asked to describe the Liquid Polymetal alloy <Hexite> that made up the Tinman Cyber evolveds limbs and how they could move/pour while still being solid, They likened it to the prop-propeller blades on a Plane... "When not moing Of course you can throw a tennis ball through/in-between the blades, but as the blades start to move this become much more difficult. As they move faster and faster that tennis ball will eventually begin to bounce of every once in awhile, and intime will do so EVERTIME. The blades will move sooooo darn fast that, they will eventually start to become a blur, invisable even and at that point it is like hitting a wall. So to does the Tinmans arms. Portions are solid one second, and back liquid in that same moment."

So, when one (if one) can get the matter of the Blade to move/resonate as fast or faster (In place) than that of the target, it will increase the chances of the atoms from the blade to stike at JUST the vulnerable molecules, and miss the freakishly hard atoms, and thus create a nice, clean cut through, if given enough power-say from a standard 10 Giggawatt CS E-clip (see Rifts Original Conversion book I for the super power 'Energy Absorbtion', which tells you how much Rifts E-clips have in electrical Juice) or 10,000 car batterys, it could cut through even the Hardest of matterials.

Aslo, as an odd bonuse, the HFR Feild (High Freq Resonance) that is passiing through said blade will be strengthened to (in rifts cases) MDC levels.



I hope some of this explains things.
I tried posting alll this back in the 90's when the boards first openned and, it didn't take (i balme Star Trek Next Gen Syndrome for this ), I hope one of yawl though can maybe get that answere yawl be looking fer 'fer all these years...


Nightly night.



P.S.
As to magic Melee weapons, the books just say that the SN fields break down the Natural Laws of reality so as to both "weaken the target And increase the damage of the weapon".
In assumption only that sounds alot like "Making the blade Sharper, harder, faster-better..."
Bionic hammers... Heh, it's magic, it can do that.
Steeler49er-

[runebeo]

A really large creature such as whales or other large land beast should get some kind of damage resistance against megadamage melee weapons. I think a 50% chance of taking half damage from non-critical hits would be a good rule, but still not much help since very few S.D.C. creatures can take more than a point or two.

[Killer Cyborg]

Steeler49er,
Other than the distracting color changes, you made an interesting post.
I would like some sources for the information on the different vibro-blades, and I'm left wondering what the damage effect would be like in the second kind of blade you describe.
Would it just work like a sharp knife, or would the area of damage be larger than the width/length of the blade?

[Crazy Lou]

it sounds like the 2nd version would just be like a really sharp knife, that can cut through just about anything. But the problem with that would be that there's no way you could make a reasonable adjustment to effects of a strike for different types of armor. Also, if that's the way that Rifts vibro blades are supposed to work, it doesn't even make sense that it would do MD to SDC structures. It should just cut through anything SDC, but do about it's standard damage in SDC. So being stabbed by a Vibro knife shouldn't be much more lethal than by an SDC knife, except for the above mentioned issue of slightly larger wounds b/c you can't stab in and out perfectly, so w/ less resistance the extra motion would be more noticeable.

[Daniel Stoker]

So being stabbed by a Vibro knife shouldn't be much more lethal than by an SDC knife, except for the above mentioned issue of slightly larger wounds b/c you can't stab in and out perfectly, so w/ less resistance the extra motion would be more noticeable.

What about being slashed with a vibroknife? A real knife is limited to how much it can penetrate with a slash, but I should be able to cut off or nearly cut off some poor schlubs arm or REALLY have his guts come spilling out doing a lot more then a mere 1D6 damage.


Daniel Stoker

[Crazy Lou]

for slashing ya, but that's why I was talking about stabs... but a slash I'd agree.

[Qev]

I just have this wonderful image in my mind of some poor unarmored slob accidentally nicking his own thumb with his vibroblade, and promptly detonating into a cloud of red mist. I could see metal grille floors being popular in bars in the rougher parts of town.

[Crazy Lou]

an excellent way to put this problem!

[Steeler49er]

Steeler49er,
Other than the distracting color changes, you made an interesting post.
I would like some sources for the information on the different vibro-blades, and I'm left wondering what the damage effect would be like in the second kind of blade you describe.
Would it just work like a sharp knife, or would the area of damage be larger than the width/length of the blade?

Well, First off, sorry about the "Post of Many Colors" , I just do that so as to keep my (often) to freakin LONG post from making peeps go all cross-eyed... I was kinda having a very hard time getting the right look for it last-night... Gomenasai

As to a link, sorry but I lost all of those many cool likes over 10 years ago from when I lats posted them here... I kinda gave up on this debate years ago (and this is a totally differant computer with None of the prior ones data intact) so I figured i'd never take up the discussion again, but scine you and others were really wanting to know this stuff, I kinda figured I'd be a real jerk if I did say (at least a little) something.

I can tell you that the Real world effects of this (the second version of the Vibro blade <HFR>) are truly impossable to tell as, unlike the sonic generator of the first Vibro-knife, such a device as a HFR generator simple couldn't be created! It is pure Fantasy tech and (i should say, It can be created But...) the level of tech needed to create such a thing would be Soooo high that you could create better than Vibro-tech and wouldn't waste your time even creating such a (at that point) "Low tech" device

Testla and many others (like Philip Taylor Kramer) worked on similar stuff, but with the exception of Testla I've never heard of anyone using it.

The most likely description as to how it would funtion would best be described as "Just like it does in Rifts ", a strike from the knife would make a VERY nice and clean cut through just about anything and would reduce an objects hardness (PV, Soak, AR's-etc) to the realm of a Dane Cook joke-(an ineffectually laughable attempt that it will have some effect at working)...

As my wife said, "I'd sure Hope that a Vibro Scalple made a clean cut, cuz if it works like others are saying (as in the electro-turkey knife) it sure would be worthless to doctors as, it would Kill the patient-splatt "-Waysenna-

it sounds like the 2nd version would just be like a really sharp knife, that can cut through just about anything. But the problem with that would be that there's no way you could make a reasonable adjustment to effects of a strike for different types of armor. Also, if that's the way that Rifts vibro blades are supposed to work, it doesn't even make sense that it would do MD to SDC structures. It should just cut through anything SDC, but do about it's standard damage in SDC. So being stabbed by a Vibro knife shouldn't be much more lethal than by an SDC knife, except for the above mentioned issue of slightly larger wounds b/c you can't stab in and out perfectly, so w/ less resistance the extra motion would be more noticeable.

You are correct sir-dead on.
It would easily cut right through you or your sdc car in one swipe for sure, and if a Large enough, a HFR vibro would split a whale down the middle like it were air, but yeah, just like an MDC laser or rail gun a True Palladium Vibro may not kill you if you are hit right (you can easily luck out).

For instance An MDC laser may heat up a point of impact on your body if your PC (and not so much you) is hit with it, which May be enough to super heat the water inyour blood to the point of exploding and thus killing you, or it may hit and heat up but the stolicpressure may just give you a Heart attck, OR it May just go cleanly through you!

Similarly a Rail Gun Rounds Sprawl may gut you like a pig OR, if it was Just a High Pen type of round (read AP rounds), it may go right through you and leave you not much better off than if you gotten hit by a normal SDC gun!
-"Sprawl dude... Cool"-Jack Black in The Jackel.

A vibro blade cuts sooo easy though that it is Very hard to Not critically injure someone with even a glancing blow. ONLY a Plasma or Partical Beam should ever garrinty death from a glance to an SDC object, and that is smple because they've got sooo much AOE to the width of their beams that it is Hard to not Vaporize a majority of an object.


So how does one fix this/these problems with MDC attacks vs Sdc object-A mix of common sence and This system;
♣When dealing with MDC attacks hitting ANY sdc structure, simple reduce Any hit by 10% for every 1 point that the roll to strike is to the target difficulty number!

So, if a swordsmen with a VBlade stikes at you with his sword with a strike roll of [18] and you make a dodge roll of [15], rule it that the 1D6-vblade hits but only did 30% of its' total damage! So if the hit normaly would have done 3MD, it would now only do 90SDC-<still likely to kill you> and be ruled a Strong glancing blow! If the damage rolled had been 1, this would come out to being a nick that could still kill but is also highly survivable and is great fer giving your players a chance to live.

As to If you get impaled by a Palladium class HFR V-Blade, well that can still kill you as was pointed out earlier by "Starmage21" due to the fact that a same blade that has little to No resistance with slide in All the way and that kills fast, faster than a normal blade, and once in that same knife Still needs to be pulled Out!-(read "just as easily in as out"=new wound). Unlike normal blades, a HFR blade will have very little resistance on the way out and will therefore Not be required to exit the same way.

Play Impales at a Much higher % reduction (from as much as 5% to as little as 1%) but 50% of THAT damage should go Strait to HP<rounded up>!
In the above example the damage at 5% on a 3MDC hit would equate out to 8 HP and 7sdc worth of damage!
Rememebr that Impalement attacks are generally Much less damaging than a hack, cuts, or slicing attack but do most of that damage to HP instead (bypassing SDC-which is the point).

Hope this helps.

[Steeler49er]

Additional to Crazy Lou.
The ability to adapt to Armors and varing hardnesses is what I was talking about when I said that "I felt it was very hard to create such a form of tech". This IS the main reason for my generale dislike of This version of the Vblade (although the other version is even worse for logic).

The best assumption one could (quite easily) derive as to "Why a HFR vibro weapon could compansate for varing densitys" is that it simply may not need to! It may infact be that if one Resonates fast enough ,then one is simply capable of cutting through any Lesser density matterials <lesser than whatever you got the Vblade set to that is-which is generally the maximum setting>.


Additional to Overlord R.
No the HFR vibro will not "Generally" extend its field out, and in effect, increase the length of the blade beyond the blades matterial length, But this can be done as it is a Complex energy field that is (must be) used inorder to create that HFR Permiation field in the first place... with a sufficantly high enough tech level (a little above what is needed to initially create a HFR weapon in the first place), such a field could YES be extended if And only If the Knife/blade/hammer is made this way...
The range (past the tip of the blade or hammer) would likely be pretty short (50%+/- greater) but would infact allow for an awsome effect.
BUT this is considered to be an Energy attack and Not strickly a kinetic attack as it is the Energy feiled and Not the Knife that is doing the damage!
This last trick is seen very often in Animes where in that weapon is Pushed into doing more damage. THIS field can also be altered to do damage similar to that of a TYPE 1) Vibro blade as well, but the PV of That version is likely Very weak.
And Both versions are going to be a Very big drain on the e-clip (likely reducing a HFR Vblades hours long charge to mere miniutes), and Both would be classified as "Settings" of the weapon.
Plus, unless great care it taken in the development of such a weapon, feed back is very likely to happen and could ruin or even destroy such a weapon (may even explode).

But doable Yes...


Both great questions guys
Hope this helps.

[Steeler49er]

Yup, like I said the confusion about how V-blades work exists even among some of PBs own staff. Kevin explained it along time ago but because many writers come from other game companies, they often bring their own <sometimes> contradictory interpritation on how things work into their writings for PB...

Adds to the fun I say.

I remember once that PB had a write up by a Poster/or staff writer (I forget) in one of the Rifters for a playable Vampire story arc. In it he describes how the vampires are smart for getting "Impervious to Energy" cast on them so that they could hide out in a volcano w/o burning up!
Because, as we all know, Palladium Vampires are really just as vulnerable to Fire/Heat as White Wolf Vampires... Right?


However YES, if you alter the HFR of a HFR type Vblade it Will cut you up bad (just like the Sonic generator VibroBlades used in Star Wars RPG...), It just won't do much to penitrate MDC matterials is all.

[Crazy Lou]

Oh on the different hardnesses thing i was talking about variations in compositions of different MDC armors. Some are described as ceramic composite, some are magically reinforced -- what do you do then? -- and some are super alloys, and some are super alloys made at a nano level (like GBs). The hardness would all be different, and thus the resistance, and also capability for damage, would vary. (perhaps it would be to an insignificant effect, and thus one could dismiss this issue, but perhaps not).

[Steeler49er]

Oh on the different hardnesses thing i was talking about variations in compositions of different MDC armors.

As was I!
I've always felt that this was an issue that PB needed to address, you know, the facts that Not all armors are created equal! But when palladium creates armors all they do (most of the time and with very few exceptions) is to Draw up some niffy looking suit and then to tak/slap on some random arbitrary number of MDC point-BAMB-"Call it a day!"

Exceptions like the Archons ceramics and glitterboys lasers do ½ (it's almost always ½ this or that with PB-why not two and five 20th ).

Many types of armor (including force feilds) should Not be effected by Vibro-Knives and I have had to rule this in the past. I've also ruled that totally transparent/invisable force feilds may allow Some lasers (exspesially variable one) to bypass them, and in a few cases I've created armors that have TOO hard of a U.P. score<hardnesses Far over 100sdc equalling 1MDC>. So most definately YES, Some Magic items, many energy fields and some Ultra hard materials like Kisentite and Adamantium, as well as So called Mystic materials like Orichalcum<?> and Mithiril should likely be ruled to have properties that May effect HFR class Vibro weapons...
But the same should be said about many armors varing resistances (or weaknesses) to Heat, cold, colors of the EMS-light, and some chemicals. All armors, as well as things like Bone and Carapace, in Rifts and other PB books should have Varying Hardnesses in the first place and NOT get stuck on the static
100sdc is needed to do 1MDC rule.
Hows about a high tech yet still sdc super alloy of steel that requires 80 or 90 sdc to be harmed. This would add alot more diversity for RolePlayers to play Lower than MDC level, but higher than Low tech sdc world games. Funner to go into shops as well when they can offer you more varietys of armors like "This one has a 1230 U.P. Vs heat, but only 30 UP Vs.impact! if your going up against a fire demon, this is the thing to buy!"
As apposed to how things work at present

Player-"So... Telll me about armors... What's the differance betweenthis armor and that one?"
GM as the shop owner-"well this armor has 200 MDC!
Player-"And that one?"
GM-"Oooo, good choice... This one has 200 and 1one MDC!"
Player-OooooKay

So, we all need to get Kevin to add some diversity to PB.
As to how you can (for now) play up HFR Vblades, just have it so that they "adapt" to whatever they impact on (just like a Variable Laser has to go through!) this logical-if a bit of a cop'out.
Also, as to differing MDC Ceramics and Nano armor, They'd realistically have No bearing on HFR weapons tech as it<a Vblades oscolation field> is mostly just cutting at the molecules and will ignore/bypass the effects of such traits, thus working just like normal.


Type 1) vibro blades (IE Shredders) should Also be kept to add some spice to the game... They may such at harming MDC materials but, they're Far Nastier on sdc flesh and likely require a LOT less power to use (like 1/100th the juice) than a HFR Vblade!

Also, lets NOT forget about a very much unmentioned melee weapon-I speak of the dreaded MONO-weapon!!!
They're silent, cheap, often invisable to the naked eye, and Oh so scary to confront, and they're able to pass through human tissue just as easily (if not easier) than a HFR VBlade! One hit kills!

[Crazy Lou]

I may just be confused here, but if you argue that a HFR vibro weapon is at a high enough frequency that it wouldn't matter what the composition of the MDC armor is, and that it can cut them all at least at 1D6 for a Knife, then shouldn't that same 1D6MD knife do like 2D6 or 3D6 against some of the softer MDC armors? Because w/ less hardness, it's easier to cut?

Also, another thing it seems like we're missing is the difference b/t hardness and resilience (not sure that's exactly the right word, but I'll explain). I mean that something can be very hard, but very easy to break. Like Diamond. It's super hard, but brittle, and can shatter easily. So it seems like some armors ought to be more susceptible to blunt and others to blades. Also, that hardness might not be the only significant factor in the effectiveness of v-blades. More on this later, but I don't have time now to continue the post...

[Prince Artemis]

I may just be confused here, but if you argue that a HFR vibro weapon is at a high enough frequency that it wouldn't matter what the composition of the MDC armor is, and that it can cut them all at least at 1D6 for a Knife, then shouldn't that same 1D6MD knife do like 2D6 or 3D6 against some of the softer MDC armors? Because w/ less hardness, it's easier to cut?

Also, another thing it seems like we're missing is the difference b/t hardness and resilience (not sure that's exactly the right word, but I'll explain). I mean that something can be very hard, but very easy to break. Like Diamond. It's super hard, but brittle, and can shatter easily. So it seems like some armors ought to be more susceptible to blunt and others to blades. Also, that hardness might not be the only significant factor in the effectiveness of v-blades. More on this later, but I don't have time now to continue the post...

The word your looking for, atleast geologically, is clevage. It's the term for how a rock or mineral is likely sheared and how easy it is to do.

Slate for example has a horizontal clevage, because it shears in layers.

But, resilance would work. Leather is as soft as other clothing materials(like tweed), but can handle a lot more punishment.

[The Baron of chaos]

Steeler your is one fot he most interesting contribute to this thread.
And arise a question we all soon or later faced. The fact that all weapon and all amrors, regardless of the difference of materials and peculiarities , can receive and do the same amount of damage, in MDC universe.

As for vibro-blades, personally i think that the chainsaw description so far given, fit them. The blade energy field is not just on the tip, surrounding the blade. So in addition to meet no resistance at all from SDC structures, it keep on doing damage even if just left stuck in the wound. Think about spinnin a pen in the sand.

[Prince Artemis]

Steeler your is one fot he most interesting contribute to this thread.
And arise a question we all soon or later faced. The fact that all weapon and all amrors, regardless of the difference of materials and peculiarities , can receive and do the same amount of damage, in MDC universe.

As for vibro-blades, personally i think that the chainsaw description so far given, fit them. The blade energy field is not just on the tip, surrounding the blade. So in addition to meet no resistance at all from SDC structures, it keep on doing damage even if just left stuck in the wound. Think about spinnin a pen in the sand.

My old City rat character had a 2 dozen blades for combating giant robots and mosters. For monsters, he'd stab as deep as possible and leave it there. For robots, he jammed them into the joints and left them there. Mind you he only actually kept half a dozen sheathed, the rest were in a case strapped to his back.

[The Baron of chaos]

Interesting tactic prince artemis.

On side note no one dared to touch the spiny unnerving question of the "moment". Megadamage Strenght and Vibroblades(or any comparable megadamage weapon).
I know tha tsome recent rules say that you inflict only the best of the two damage values. But somehow i feel this is, don't know, wrong on many levels. Am I the only one?
Personally I'll remain stuck with old rules, but it would be good know whats the differenc ein getting a supernaturally strong megadamage balde strike and a wimp (normal PS 6 or less), megadamage blade strke. Not just against SDc target.

[Crazy Lou]

That's a topic that deserves, and has had, it's own thread. More than once I am sure.

Anyway, personally, I ignore the whole issue and use SN punch damage+MD weapon damage. I know that there's a lot of argument against that, but I don't really care because I like it. It makes the most sense to me from a purely logical standpoint. I also add PS damage bonuses to SN strength strikes. At least for those beings w/ exceptionally high SN PS. Because otherwise there's really no way difference b/t something w/ SN PS 51 and SN PS 151 except in how much the being can carry. Which I think is stupid. I know that it's really rare for SN PS (or any PS really) to exceed the 51-60 range, but I still think it's really dumb that the rules just let all the damage for anything past that sit at the same level. I think if you're a being powerful enough that you somehow have a SN PS of 200, you should hit like it, and not like it's only a "wimpy" 51. (I also know there's an advanced table in rifter 3, but it doesn't really make sense. In several cases, transitions to the next level makes you have a lower damage instead... )

[Steeler49er]

Hi Lou, sorry fer the late response to your question.
First off I'd like to say that I agree 100% with your present above statements regarding SN PS adds to Melee weapons... It's just logical and I'm really very glad that "Bill Coffin" choses do believe in a similar train of thought when he Ignored the rules for 'Power Channeling" while making Century Station.
It was Very stupid to think that someone with SN PS using that power would ONLY do that powers listed damage, and Not the total combined of the two...
We need more logiacl writers like him at PB.


Now as to your question you posted:

I may just be confused here, but if you argue that a HFR vibro weapon is at a high enough frequency that it wouldn't matter what the composition of the MDC armor is, and that it can cut them all at least at 1D6 for a Knife, then shouldn't that same 1D6MD knife do like 2D6 or 3D6 against some of the softer MDC armors? Because w/ less hardness, it's easier to cut?

You are correct.
To a point the Vibro blade should be able to do more damage to Lower Densitys just like it does to lower PV's, IF palladium books had ever bothered to include Hardness rules, but at present one of the only PB books to do so For PV was the "Weapons Compendiums" line of books, and they only went upto dealing with PV's of 9.0 to 10.0 (100sdc=1MDC) max, never harder (as that was just unlikely to come across, and there is No issue covered for Density at all...

So, it should be said that a HFR Vblade ONLY really reduces it resistance from matter (PV reduction) so YES, Lower density matter would be easier to cut than High density items And Conversely so is that Higher density items would, as well, Slow the blades progress down as HFR tech just makes the innate "Hardness" of an object less (MUCH-LESS) of an issue...
But again you are correct that density would play into things.
This is why PB (right from the get go) should have Had some kind of Hardness Rating and separated SDC from the consept all together, where SDC got relegated to merely representing the innate overall mass or Density of objects.

Higher the hardness of an object, higher its' Hardness rating.
Higher an objects density, high its SDC count!
This would have cleared up EVERYONES confusions over AR's, MDC, sdc, HP, PV (you name it), But PB went and grouped in all of these together in many strange<and wounderfully odd > missmatched pairings... Go figure.
ALL that MDC should have ever been in the books was a Higher PV than normal <10.0/100 vs. lets say Steels 7.0-7.5 ratings>

Since PB seldom uses the PV/PEN system <or goes over it> this means it is just easier for you, when dealing with PB to let the HFR Vblade (and the Nerd Botched version 1) as well) do there normal damages... For now!

Also, another thing it seems like we're missing is the difference b/t hardness and resilience (not sure that's exactly the right word, but I'll explain). I mean that something can be very hard, but very easy to break. Like Diamond. It's super hard, but brittle, and can shatter easily. So it seems like some armors ought to be more susceptible to blunt and others to blades. Also, that hardness might not be the only significant factor in the effectiveness of v-blades. More on this later, but I don't have time now to continue the post...

This is something I've covered ALOT with the A.R.D.V. rule I made up sometime ago. It deals with Crystals and Other materials that can be More and Less damaged based on, Not how hard you hit but, from what Angle you hit it from.

I give you These links regarding
ARDV's (Armor Rating Deflection Values)
1)ARDV's & U.P. Score
2)ARDV

And for your viewing enjoyment, This link to MIA's music videos "Paper Airplanes" so that you can Imagine Rifts WITH good Hardness & AR rules, while you go on a rampage in your New High "DC", High Hardness rated Triax supertech Power Armor with T.W. DVD player, surround sound and Variable-HFR Mono Rune blades and Gravity Coild Canons that you just got



☺☻☺☻☺☻☺☻☺☻☺♥♦♣♠☺☻☺☻☺☻☺☻☺☻☺

[Killer Cyborg]

Interesting tactic prince artemis.

On side note no one dared to touch the spiny unnerving question of the "moment". Megadamage Strenght and Vibroblades(or any comparable megadamage weapon).
I know tha tsome recent rules say that you inflict only the best of the two damage values. But somehow i feel this is, don't know, wrong on many levels. Am I the only one?
Personally I'll remain stuck with old rules, but it would be good know whats the differenc ein getting a supernaturally strong megadamage balde strike and a wimp (normal PS 6 or less), megadamage blade strke. Not just against SDc target.

The damage from Supernatural Strength attacks does not come from the physical force of the blow, but rather from the supernatural force of the blow.
The supernatural force doesn't stack with physical weapons- it overrides it (or is overridden).

Read up on the Pogtals in VK, and how their energy field works, because that's essentially how Supernatural Strength works (it was prototype for how Supernatural PS works now).

[The Baron of chaos]

The damage from Supernatural Strength attacks does not come from the physical force of the blow, but rather from the supernatural force of the blow.
The supernatural force doesn't stack with physical weapons- it overrides it (or is overridden).

Read up on the Pogtals in VK, and how their energy field works, because that's essentially how Supernatural Strength works (it was prototype for how Supernatural PS works now).

Well KC this is simply the most idiotic thing i've ever heard in a RPG. Pogtal work that way due their energy aura(they are kind of living vibro weapons). But for others supernautural strength come straight form supernatural muscle( like a titan juicer, no magic or force field, all good , classical MUSCLES. And like them some other superstrong creatures. And again this add a curious question and robotic strenght? And Augmented strength? For them, as far i recollect, you add the damage.
I'm saying so because simply make no sense. I understand that for purely energy weapons you do not add PS damage because there is no mass behind the weapon. But for SOLID melee weapons, like vibroblades or runic swords, your logic simply make no goddamned sense. Is it or not solid? Do or don't it have a mass and a density? Then why one shouldn't be able to carry some of its damage bonus, reflecting the speed and power it actually move?...(damn where is my fellow baron von clogg when one need him, he is the expert of the physics of PAIN!).

[The Galactus Kid]

The damage from Supernatural Strength attacks does not come from the physical force of the blow, but rather from the supernatural force of the blow.
The supernatural force doesn't stack with physical weapons- it overrides it (or is overridden).

Read up on the Pogtals in VK, and how their energy field works, because that's essentially how Supernatural Strength works (it was prototype for how Supernatural PS works now).

Well KC this is simply the most idiotic thing i've ever heard in a RPG. Pogtal work that way due their energy aura(they are kind of living vibro weapons). But for others supernautural strength come straight form supernatural muscle( like a titan juicer, no magic or force field, all good , classical MUSCLES. And like them some other superstrong creatures. And again this add a curious question and robotic strenght? And Augmented strength? For them, as far i recollect, you add the damage.
I'm saying so because simply make no sense. I understand that for purely energy weapons you do not add PS damage because there is no mass behind the weapon. But for SOLID melee weapons, like vibroblades or runic swords, your logic simply make no goddamned sense. Is it or not solid? Do or don't it have a mass and a density? Then why one shouldn't be able to carry some of its damage bonus, reflecting the speed and power it actually move?...(damn where is my fellow baron von clogg when one need him, he is the expert of the physics of PAIN!).

Certain times the damage does stack. Splicers, the mutant weapons in Madhaven etc.

[The Baron of chaos]

The damage from Supernatural Strength attacks does not come from the physical force of the blow, but rather from the supernatural force of the blow.
The supernatural force doesn't stack with physical weapons- it overrides it (or is overridden).

Read up on the Pogtals in VK, and how their energy field works, because that's essentially how Supernatural Strength works (it was prototype for how Supernatural PS works now).

Well KC this is simply the most idiotic thing i've ever heard in a RPG. Pogtal work that way due their energy aura(they are kind of living vibro weapons). But for others supernautural strength come straight form supernatural muscle( like a titan juicer, no magic or force field, all good , classical MUSCLES. And like them some other superstrong creatures. And again this add a curious question and robotic strenght? And Augmented strength? For them, as far i recollect, you add the damage.
I'm saying so because simply make no sense. I understand that for purely energy weapons you do not add PS damage because there is no mass behind the weapon. But for SOLID melee weapons, like vibroblades or runic swords, your logic simply make no goddamned sense. Is it or not solid? Do or don't it have a mass and a density? Then why one shouldn't be able to carry some of its damage bonus, reflecting the speed and power it actually move?...(damn where is my fellow baron von clogg when one need him, he is the expert of the physics of PAIN!).

Certain times the damage does stack. Splicers, the mutant weapons in Madhaven etc.

Proof that even for palladium this is an "unclear" rule, that is prety confusing

[The Baron of chaos]

On side note, thinking about it , I realized this is not just a problem of Rifts or of Palladium system. The fact is the few RPG can justify why someone really strong should use a melee weapon instead of barehands.

[Killer Cyborg]

The damage from Supernatural Strength attacks does not come from the physical force of the blow, but rather from the supernatural force of the blow.
The supernatural force doesn't stack with physical weapons- it overrides it (or is overridden).

Read up on the Pogtals in VK, and how their energy field works, because that's essentially how Supernatural Strength works (it was prototype for how Supernatural PS works now).

Well KC this is simply the most idiotic thing i've ever heard in a RPG.

You should probably read up a bit on RPGs, then.

Pogtal work that way due their energy aura(they are kind of living vibro weapons). But for others supernautural strength come straight form supernatural muscle (like a titan juicer, no magic or force field, all good , classical MUSCLES. And like them some other superstrong creatures.

Then explain the following:
-a Supernatural Strength character with PS of 3 can lift 120 lbs and inflict 4d6 SDC on a full strength punch, 1d4 MD on a power punch, yet a normal strength character with PS 10 can lift 200 lbs, yet only inflicts 1d4 SDC on a full punch, and 1d4x2 SDC on a power punch.
-RUE 285, in the description of Supernatural Strength & Damage:

Demons and other supernatural creatures inflict MD from their punches, kicks, and bites.

The problem is not that the rules and description for supernatural PS does not conform to the Titan Juicer- the problem is that the Titan Juicer is the oddity that does not conform to the rules.
There's no reason for them to have Supernatural PS, and it's stupid that some writer gave it to them. As it stands, it's a nonsensical exception to the rule for Supernatural Strength, not an example of how the category is supposed to work.
-RUE 285

Simply put, supernatural beings are NOT human. They are something else. Creatures that defy the laws of physics and draw upon arcane forces and energies (like magic) as part of their innate essence. Their supernatural aspect gives them Mega-Damage strength and endurance...

And again this add a curious question and robotic strenght? And Augmented strength? For them, as far i recollect, you add the damage.

With SDC melee weapons, yes.
With MD weapons, not so much.
Although there are tables somewhere for extra damage in melee combat from robots with weapons, the added damage is not as much as their normal punch damage. There is a bonus, but it's not the addition of the punch damage.

I'm saying so because simply make no sense.

The different strength categories make no sense in the first place.

I understand that for purely energy weapons you do not add PS damage because there is no mass behind the weapon. But for SOLID melee weapons, like vibroblades or runic swords, your logic simply make no goddamned sense. Is it or not solid? Do or don't it have a mass and a density? Then why one shouldn't be able to carry some of its damage bonus, reflecting the speed and power it actually move?...(damn where is my fellow baron von clogg when one need him, he is the expert of the physics of PAIN!).

Because the punch damage is not caused by the physical force of the supernatural creature's blow- it's caused by their supernatural nature.
The supernatural damage over-rides any normal damage that their punch might inflict, and it overrides any damage that a melee weapon itself causes.
The Vibro-Blade may as well not even touch the target, because the supernatural force behind the attack damages the target instead.
Why?
In-Game: who knows? It's supernatural.
Out-Of-Game: Probably because the writers wanted supernatural creatures to inflict damage in correlation with their physical strength, but still wanted supernatural creatures to use their natural weapons and fists instead of melee weapons in most situations.

[Killer Cyborg]

On side note, thinking about it , I realized this is not just a problem of Rifts or of Palladium system. The fact is the few RPG can justify why someone really strong should use a melee weapon instead of barehands.

Yup.
In reality, it would be because they simply prefer to.
But that mild of an incentive rarely works well in actual gaming.

[Killer Cyborg]

Certain times the damage does stack. Splicers, the mutant weapons in Madhaven etc.

Gargoyle weapons. Xiticix Weapons.
And as far as I can tell, it's in explicable in every case.

Of course, if you know the author of Madhaven*, he might be able to shed some light on the Mutant weapons in that book.









*I think it's Jason Richards

[The Baron of chaos]

Then explain the following:
-a Supernatural Strength character with PS of 3 can lift 120 lbs and inflict 4d6 SDC on a full strength punch, 1d4 MD on a power punch, yet a normal strength character with PS 10 can lift 200 lbs, yet only inflicts 1d4 SDC on a full punch, and 1d4x2 SDC on a power punch.
-RUE 285, in the description of Supernatural Strength & Damage:

Hmm this is another thing I should take note before buying RUE(i still have my older edition, I know I know is outdated and else...but , don't know hwo to explain, feel like family). Then why this strength supernatural in first place? It does seem....weak

With SDC melee weapons, yes.
With MD weapons, not so much.
Although there are tables somewhere for extra damage in melee combat from robots with weapons, the added damage is not as much as their normal punch damage. There is a bonus, but it's not the addition of the punch damage

Yeah, but still, It does take in account the additonal mass and speed fo the attack to some level. While supernatural strong beings, not just savage animals, but also intelligent demons, seem to have being all put on same level. One could run at mach 2 , have SN PS of 40 and wield a runic chainsaw made of kisentite with the chain made of darkmetal and engulfed by super hot flames and still do not get no damage bonus, only the weapon damage is done? Now i'm even more sure of one thing.....the conjurers should trade Superhuman strength for power weapon, is just more useful spell for them.

Yup.
In reality, it would be because they simply prefer to.
But that mild of an incentive rarely works well in actual gaming.

Well I've being thinking about it and I think I found an answer. The question is not the additional damage, that as you pointed out won't be that much, but is the typology. Melee weapons are used because their weight(for blunt) or their sharpness(for cutting and impaling) allow them to better hurt , in lethal way, a living body(that's also the sense of bite and claws).
with punch you can kill person, but in much slower and less easy way. Sure a lcuky punch could do the job, but the fact is that with a denser, heavier or sharper weapon, your strength is channeled and focused, allowing to pierce skin , bones and reach vital organs.
Now for supernatural creatures against a SDC being, this is irrelevant as SDC body offer no resistance toward the strike, the supernatural creature could have used a toothpick and still do the same amount of damage. Melee weapon come hand while fighting other MDC being, as with sheer punch is hard deliver a deathly wound(possible but need a goddamned natural 20 in most cases), while melee weapons pierce skin, cause bleeding, mutilate, shatter bones and could reach vital organs. In the end I think the more reasonable answer is in the middle. The damage of megadamage melee weapon is already taking in account the strength of the wielder. Is simply converting and focusing it. If the PS damage is greater than melee weapon you use it but add one or two dice of damage or a given number(+2 per dice of damage as example, +10 ix a **x10 present, this is just an idea), reflecting the higher density, weight, and sheer evil power of badassery of the melee weapons. Sould dirnking apart, ther eis a reason demons like to use rune weapons(ok i admit the huge amoutn fo spells andspecial abilities is already a good reason...Oh to have six arms equipped with runic chainsaws!)