Reconstructing the Super Spell.

[cornholioprime]

There's no real way to extrapolate how much MDC was needed by the Alliance of Light to seal away the Old Ones.....because, believe it or not, when you read carefully how they were handled, they weren't imprisoned so much as put to sleep (probably NO Prison can contain them).

The Heroes Three who put the thing together were:

Kym-Nark-Mar, mightiest of all Dragons and Dragon-Gods;

Lictalon, perhaps the greatest mage that has ever existed in the Palladium Megaverse;

and

of course, the Forgotten (Old) One, Thoth, a Megaversal Magical Powerhouse in his own right.


In all likelihood, the power of their Super Spell lay not so much in the amount of PPE expended as the intricacy of the spell.

Note that the other monsters, imprisoned elsewhere, were for the most part "just" sealed away, but remained awake (Apsu is a notable exception, and even he isn't being monitored in the same way).

There are, apparently, other Titans even more awesome than Apsu, and it is these beings, along with the Old Ones and some (unnamed) others, that Brahma actively spends PPE on.

[drewkitty ~..~]

There's no real way to extrapolate how much PPE was needed by the Alliance of Light to seal away the Old Ones.....because, believe it or not, when you read carefully how they were handled, they w...snip.

[cornholioprime]

There's no real way to extrapolate how much PPE was needed by the Alliance of Light to seal away the Old Ones.....because, believe it or not, when you read carefully how they were handled, they w...snip.

Okaaay.

I'm missing your point, and I don't think that I'm the only one who is (if indeed you are trying to make one).

[Glistam]

In your post you said "MDC" instead of "P.P.E." It seemed appearant that you meant P.P.E. however, so it was pointed out what your post probably should've said.

I don't think this spell can be reproduced, it was created for one specific purpose based on specific need and circumstance. It's improvisational magic at its best and really has no precedent in the game system. It's likely something that also had a low chance of success and the participants got very lucky that it worked at all.

[drewkitty ~..~]

In your post you said "MDC" instead of "P.P.E." It seemed appearant that you meant P.P.E. however, so it was pointed out what your post probably should've said.
...snip

yep

[cornholioprime]

There's no real way to extrapolate how much PPE was needed by the Alliance of Light to seal away the Old Ones.....because, believe it or not, when you read carefully how they were handled, they weren't imprisoned so much as put to sleep (probably NO Prison can contain them).

Spoiler:

Brahma, along with a select few powerhouses in the Megaverse, is busy making sure that the Unnameable Beings do not awaken. These beings (which include the Palladium World's Old Ones)

Spoiler:

They are bound with incredibly powerful spells in several places between dimensions that cannot be reached by any normal magic or technological means. The god Brahma routinely spends thousands of P.P.E. every day to reinforce these bonds.

Spoiler:

The Old Ones, the Sumerian demon Apsu, the Greek Titans and some even more horrible entities are locked in dismal dimensional prisons.

The Heroes Three who put the thing together were:
Kym-Nark-Mar, mightiest of all Dragons and Dragon-Gods; Lictalon, perhaps the greatest mage that has ever existed in the Palladium Megaverse; and of course, the Forgotten (Old) One, Thoth, a Megaversal Magical Powerhouse in his own right.

Out of curiousity, was Lictalon ever 'stat'ed out like Thoth and Kym-Nark-Mar were? Or at least books that list several of his accomplishments (other than sealing the Old Ones) and maybe his origins?

In all likelihood, the power of their Super Spell lay not so much in the amount of PPE expended as the intricacy of the spell.

Looking at the PPE costs of the Spells of Legend and Enki's Super Spell Lite, high amounts of PPE do seem to play a role.

As I said (or perhaps the correct word is "implied") earlier, their "prison" is more of a "minimum security prison with comfy pillows and soothing music" than a proper, San Quentin-style lockdown.

Ahriman is in a real Priosn.
Cronus is in a real prison.
The Tarnove Intelligence is in a real prison.

Apsu, on the other hand (now that I think of it) is a more apt example of the type of prison that the Old Ones are in -if or when he ever wakes up, there doesn't seem to be any means of actually keeping him there -and I believe that the various scattered texts regarding the Old Ones and the other Unnameables strongly implies that the Old Ones are in a similar situation.

They weren't taken down "by force," and judging by how important Brahma feels his job is, it doesn't look like they can be held wherever they are, either, if they ever wake up.

[cornholioprime]

Ahriman is in a real Priosn.

Kinda just trapped in another dimension. Considering he still gets visits from Demon Lords and has plots running in dozens of other dimensions.

Cronus is in a real prison.

True.

The Tarnove Intelligence is in a real prison.

Which one was that again?

Apsu, on the other hand (now that I think of it) is a more apt example of the type of prison that the Old Ones are in -if or when he ever wakes up, there doesn't seem to be any means of actually keeping him there -and I believe that the various scattered texts regarding the Old Ones and the other Unnameables strongly implies that the Old Ones are in a similar situation.

Yes, Apsu is sleeping but he is also bound by powerful spells in an interdimensional prison.

Also on regards to the Super Spell (from Land of the Damned 1):

The Great Magic dealt the Old Ones such a blow that it rendered them senseless for all time to come, casting them in a slumber so deep 'twas unto death itself.

It actually sounds more like the spell delivered such a powerful blow that their MDC (Palladium World was still a magic hotspot back then) into the minus and right into a comatose state. After that they were sealed away.

They weren't taken down "by force," and judging by how important Brahma feels his job is, it doesn't look like they can be held wherever they are, either, if they ever wake up.

Considering that he also soothes their minds to keep them sleeping with his psychic powers...

It's also said that the 'Lost Pantheon' came close to killing one of the Old Ones before they ran out of power (or were betrayed, book offers both).

Which Book is that one in??

I've heard of the Lost Pantheon (FYI for the rest of you: they were called "lost" because they were destroyed to the very last God in a self-sacrificial charge against the Old Ones), but which Book said that they almost managed to kill an Old One??
(I'm asking because I'll make that PFRPG Book another purchase target if I don't have it already.)

ADDENDUM: As for the Tarnow Intelligence, he is the "thing" inside the Crystal in Poland (Rifts: Mindwerks) that can turn any metal into MDC, and transmute same from one element into another. It is rumoured that he was defeated and bound by a single member of the Old Ones, and he's one of the Megaverse's stronger AIs.

[cornholioprime]

I've heard of the Lost Pantheon (FYI for the rest of you: they were called "lost" because they were destroyed to the very last God in a self-sacrificial charge against the Old Ones), but which Book said that they almost managed to kill an Old One??
(I'm asking because I'll make that PFRPG Book another purchase target if I don't have it already.)

Land of the Damned 1.

It has quite good references to the Chaos War in the Aurora Tristinium at the beginning.

ADDENDUM: As for the Tarnow Intelligence, he is the "thing" inside the Crystal in Poland (Rifts: Mindwerks) that can turn any metal into MDC, and transmute same from one element into another. It is rumoured that he was defeated and bound by a single member of the Old Ones, and he's one of the Megaverse's stronger AIs.

Hmm... has to look into that.

Heh.

Whoever he messed with, he must have either REALLY pissed them off (and he should count his blessings that he isn't part of a Greatest Rune Weapon instead), or they wanted to make a display of their power to make an example of him or something.

The power of Whoever It Was that bound him is so awesome, that even though his prison CAN be destroyed, he is forced to do everything in his power to protect it.

(His/its ability to transmute metals into MDC equivalents is the SOLE reason why, in the very heart of the Brdokil Empire, King Wojytla's Empire is still not just surviving, but thriving.)

[cornholioprime]

Whoever he messed with, he must have either REALLY pissed them off (and he should count his blessings that he isn't part of a Greatest Rune Weapon instead), or they wanted to make a display of their power to make an example of him or something.

The power of Whoever It Was that bound him is so awesome, that even though his prison CAN be destroyed, he is forced to do everything in his power to protect it.

(His/its ability to transmute metals into MDC equivalents is the SOLE reason why, in the very heart of the Brdokil Empire, King Wojytla's Empire is still not just surviving, but thriving.)

Don't forget that the Tarnow Crystal also turns it's benefactor completely evil, so I wonder if the forces that captures the Tarnow Intelligence were even more evil, or if they just have a dreadful sense of irony and wanted to punish the young, upstart Intelligence for daring to match them.

I haven't heard of ANY Rune Magic powerful enough to stop the sentient inside from trying to influence the outside world.

The Tarnow Intelligence seems to be going along on his own agenda; in all likelihood this is how he/it passes the time, corrupting others (and he'd do it for free).