[Athanatos] Correcting an apparently major screw-up...

[Soldier of Od]

Jason, you seem to have received a lot of flak for your creation. Something I believe is unjustified. I enjoyed the book immensely. It’s a shame you have feel that you need to clarify things by creating this post, but I think it will help people to understand it a bit better. At first glance, I think it might be difficult to get a handle on how the Athanatos are integrated into the Nightbane world, but when read in detail, it is possible to see all the points you have made above. I liked the Athanotos. The amount of detail on them is necessary to flesh out the idea, but it is easy to see how this makes them seem like big hitters. If they were ‘a major new faction’ then I would agree with the people who have spoken out against them. But they’re not. I guess the same arguments to be made against the Strigoi. But for all the people who seem to hate Palladium Vampires for some reason, the Strigoi gives them an alternative to play with. And I think they are definitely ‘cooler’ than standard Palladium bloodsuckers.

Maybe the Athanatos and the Strigoi add a bit too much complication in, in my opinion, an already overstocked cast of protagonists. A cool additional idea, but one that tries to fill a gap that wasn’t really there to begin with. Many of the Nightbane books talk about adding a ‘third party’ to make things more interesting between the main battle between the mainly Nightbane factions and the Nightlords, which is definitely a good idea. However, this was done in the main book by adding Vampires. Then various astral beings were added to the fray. Then demons. Then Magical Brotherhoods. Then Athanatos. Then Strigoi. And the various original factions/humans/Guardians can also be used as ‘third party’ types. Too many additions makes it seem like a bit of a free for all and loses focus. But the problem doesn’t have to be with the new parties, just the way they are used in the game. If treated right, all of the above can add an interesting new element to a game without swamping it.

What I am trying to say really is, that I didn’t read anything in Shadows of Light that I didn’t like, and if that’s an example of your poor work, then your best work must be excellent. If there is a problem, then it may be that some of the items had a bit of an ‘additional’ feel: giving us fresh ideas, when maybe what people wanted (based on their moaning) was expansion on established lore. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t good. If people don’t want to add Athanatos to their game, fair enough. As a race, they are few enough in number to go unnoticed. And there are plenty of other things in the book to please people.

[Mike Taylor]

I'm glad you've finally said something about this, Jason. It tends to get forgotten when someone else brings it up.

[Mike Taylor]

*bumped up for the newcomers to read*

This is, of course, Jason's official word on the Athanatos and how their role was misinterpreted by many of the book's readers.

[Vidynn]

as I just got a hold on the RIFTER that has "Dark Revelations" - are there any differences between this material and SoL? bits that are in the Rifter only? or did SoL incorporate all of the text Jason Vey did for the Rifter? thanks a lot.

[runebeo]

I included the Athanatos in our campaign and they worked out well. The only thing we changed in their background was to tie them heavy to the church and added in a Prophecy like war between the righteous and the fanatical. After the war was over not many survived and their was peace.

[Steeler49er]

You know, this part never made a lick of sence to me

The original intent behind them was to tie the Nightbane 'verse with the rest of the Megaverse by having them be human hybrids with the Spirits of Light from Rifts/PFRPG, but I was asked to remove any and all references to angels because Kevin was concerned about adding religious overtones to a modern game. That's not a gripe, and I can respect that decision on his part; I'm just explaining.

See, PB is already Overflowing with religion (Baby-lon gods, Thor & the Norse gods, Zeussy and the Gekko Roman gods...etc.), and secondly to boot, the names of the classes (so called) "Spirit of Light" astral beings are actual names of "Angles" in the first place!

Thirdly, Kevins original PB Fant book had the demon lord "SATAN" as na NPC with SixHundered and Sixty-Six (666) HP!
Not to mention the "Demon Locusts" ala Revelations desined s they're definded in the Bible???

No religion??
Molech

Leviticus
18:21 - [In Context|Original Hebrew]
'You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the LORD."

You mean THAT Molech??? The same one that the Ammonites worshipped???
No religion in a GOTHIC war RPG makes little sence...

Anywho, the ONLY reason I didn't get into Shadows of Light was because I thought I'd caught Jason Vey making This comment on an "Ask the Author" type of post;
POSTER: What do you Like most about the Nightspawn/bane Books??
(Who I thought was Jay responded): "Everything But the Nightbane! The books could work just fine without them!"
That kinda killed the book for me as I HATE "Artistic/Creative license" from people the claim to be Fans but feel that they only really liked the stupid stuff about something and feel they needed to take a Book, Novel, Comic, Movie or TV show and make it totally differant.
I'm looking at how marvel messed up New X-Men: "Academy X" and WHIPED everyone out...

Why, because some people wanted Xmen to be All Violance ALL the time.


Well, I Still read SoL years later and when I did, I got not ONE SINGLE impression that the Athanatos were in ANYWAY a missbalance to, nor an overshadowing of the Nightspawn themselves, in fact I got the very same impression of them that Jason Vey posted up above inJune of 07!
They're Not overbalancing in anyway and in fact I actually felt them to be a lil weak in comparison... That is what gave me the impression that it may not have been Vey who said that about the NB being dislikeable... The book was Just fine.

[Vidynn]

as I just got a hold on the RIFTER that has "Dark Revelations" - are there any differences between this material and SoL? bits that are in the Rifter only? or did SoL incorporate all of the text Jason Vey did for the Rifter? thanks a lot.

[Archmichael]

I have never really understood the complaints about this book. There are a number of pretty foundational essays which (in my opinion) REALLY flesh out the universe.

I think that the two chapters "The Nocturnes" and " The Lightbringers" were absolutely fantastic. I liked the Athanatos segments as well as the Pittsburgh setting. Granted the rest is sometimes disjointed, but hey, I really liked the book.

[Jefffar]

The Anthanos were never really a selling point for me as far as the book was concerned. They were just another faction, no matter how rare or what secrets of the cosmology they knew (or thought they did). Pretty much the same for the Strigori. Fleshing out the existing faction, making them more distinct from each other, that was what interested me. This book did this in spades for the Nocturnes and the Lightbringers and to a lesser extent for the ADA.

[Sir_Spirit]

I was rereading it the other day and noticed something.
Not a complaint.
I noticed that in the bit about how the Master/Mistress Vampire in Pittsburgh first met the Night Prince in charge she used mind control on him.


I do like the Strigoi, though[they trade the true vampires vulnerablility to running water with a vulnerability to salt].
I was rereading how the factions are presented and I realised that it would actually make sense for that to be the information that you get about them from the Nocturnes themselves.(From their point of View The Seekers are too paranoid and secretive to be of much use, and the Lightbringers must come off as self righteous pricks...).
Though I dislike it being presented as cannon, if you look at it as the Nocturnes perspective on the Factions it makes a lot of sense.