No Glitter Boys?

[Lt Gargoyle]

I would allow my players to play one. If they played a Qubec defecter then they run the risk of be caught and tried for treason. If they play the traditional OCC GBP then I limit them with ammo and reduce thier power core to about two years remaining. It makes sense to me that the hand me down has to be maintained and at the time it was given over is when the previous member could no longer afford to maintain it. I like the GB it has great story arc and it is not hard to take care of as far as game balance goes.

[Starmage21]

I would allow my players to play one. If they played a Qubec defecter then they run the risk of be caught and tried for treason. If they play the traditional OCC GBP then I limit them with ammo and reduce thier power core to about two years remaining. It makes sense to me that the hand me down has to be maintained and at the time it was given over is when the previous member could no longer afford to maintain it. I like the GB it has great story arc and it is not hard to take care of as far as game balance goes.

Do you also give your adventurers armor that comes with damage on it, and weapons that have near-empty E-clips? Same principle. Just because the Glitter Boy is operating at 100% does not mean that it is brand new. Rather, it implies that the unit that the Glitter Boy O.C.C. is reasonably well maintained.

Remember, the common people love Glitter Boys, and help them whenever they can with equipment and supplies. Any towns where a knowledgable mechanic lives is going to result in the glitter boy leaving with his machine in tip-top shape.

[Lt Gargoyle]

I would allow my players to play one. If they played a Qubec defecter then they run the risk of be caught and tried for treason. If they play the traditional OCC GBP then I limit them with ammo and reduce thier power core to about two years remaining. It makes sense to me that the hand me down has to be maintained and at the time it was given over is when the previous member could no longer afford to maintain it. I like the GB it has great story arc and it is not hard to take care of as far as game balance goes.

Do you also give your adventurers armor that comes with damage on it, and weapons that have near-empty E-clips? Same principle. Just because the Glitter Boy is operating at 100% does not mean that it is brand new. Rather, it implies that the unit that the Glitter Boy O.C.C. is reasonably well maintained.

Remember, the common people love Glitter Boys, and help them whenever they can with equipment and supplies. Any towns where a knowledgable mechanic lives is going to result in the glitter boy leaving with his machine in tip-top shape.

Really? then the PC has no problem, right? Wrong because this is where role playing kicks in. If the PC is a jerk then no operator I run will give him something for nothing. And then there come the question of supplies. It is not like every Operator is going to be stocking boom gun rounds.


As far as the GB starting with damage that depends on the group. If everyone else is without robots then maybe. but generally no. I just kill the power supply completely and have the first mission/quest/adventure about finding those supplies. Besides it is so much easier to get players motivated to get out and find work.

I have started entire campaigns this way. YYour Robot finally runs out of power as you make this town.

[Starmage21]

I would allow my players to play one. If they played a Qubec defecter then they run the risk of be caught and tried for treason. If they play the traditional OCC GBP then I limit them with ammo and reduce thier power core to about two years remaining. It makes sense to me that the hand me down has to be maintained and at the time it was given over is when the previous member could no longer afford to maintain it. I like the GB it has great story arc and it is not hard to take care of as far as game balance goes.

Do you also give your adventurers armor that comes with damage on it, and weapons that have near-empty E-clips? Same principle. Just because the Glitter Boy is operating at 100% does not mean that it is brand new. Rather, it implies that the unit that the Glitter Boy O.C.C. is reasonably well maintained.

Remember, the common people love Glitter Boys, and help them whenever they can with equipment and supplies. Any towns where a knowledgable mechanic lives is going to result in the glitter boy leaving with his machine in tip-top shape.

Really? then the PC has no problem, right? Wrong because this is where role playing kicks in. If the PC is a jerk then no operator I run will give him something for nothing. And then there come the question of supplies. It is not like every Operator is going to be stocking boom gun rounds.


As far as the GB starting with damage that depends on the group. If everyone else is without robots then maybe. but generally no. I just kill the power supply completely and have the first mission/quest/adventure about finding those supplies. Besides it is so much easier to get players motivated to get out and find work.

I have started entire campaigns this way. YYour Robot finally runs out of power as you make this town.

I doubt its personality traits that make people love Glitter Boys, but rather the fact that when something bad is going on, and a glitter boy shows up, things are looking up in the world.

Also, The Boom Gun is a railgun(arguably a coilgun/mass driver). The bullets/shells for the thing are nothing more than metal slugs in a sabot. Extremely simple to manufacture even with limited tools.


I dont know how interesting your games are, but if noone else is piloting a robot, I definitely want someone in my group driving a Glitter Boy power armor. That makes the bad guys want to shoot at him in his big-bad tank, and not us in personal armor.

[Lt Gargoyle]

I doubt its personality traits that make people love Glitter Boys, but rather the fact that when something bad is going on, and a glitter boy shows up, things are looking up in the world.

Also, The Boom Gun is a railgun(arguably a coilgun/mass driver). The bullets/shells for the thing are nothing more than metal slugs in a sabot. Extremely simple to manufacture even with limited tools.


I dont know how interesting your games are, but if noone else is piloting a robot, I definitely want someone in my group driving a Glitter Boy power armor. That makes the bad guys want to shoot at him in his big-bad tank, and not us in personal armor.

Well I will not dispute the slugs being easy to manufacture. But I still do not just give a jerk player free services. (the last game had a samas pilot who was)

I do not do every game this way. But the last Rifts game I did I gave the Operator PC the XM-170 Infantry Repair Barge (a knock off) and the rest of the group who had power armor were out of power. they got the start up Robots this way because they had no cash. (it was because I wanted the first few games to get the group mystic a chance to prove herself.) And it did great the group got wind of a ruin that was a week north of their location and I had them find reactors the Operator could use to power thier stuff up. Mean while the mystic proved herself quite useful to the other player.

[Killer Cyborg]

Also, The Boom Gun is a railgun(arguably a coilgun/mass driver). The bullets/shells for the thing are nothing more than metal slugs in a sabot. Extremely simple to manufacture even with limited tools.

Okay, grab a hammer and start making one.
I'll watch.

[Starmage21]

Also, The Boom Gun is a railgun(arguably a coilgun/mass driver). The bullets/shells for the thing are nothing more than metal slugs in a sabot. Extremely simple to manufacture even with limited tools.

Okay, grab a hammer and start making one.
I'll watch.

Obvious troll is obvious. *finger*

Lt. Garg, I'm sure that youve got some really great ideas for stories, and your players enjoy them. But I think that the way youre describing the way you start these guys off it seems like this:

Player: I wanna play with the glitter boy suit!
GM: Thats fine, roll up a character
*player rolls up a glitter boy OCC*
GM: Ok, game starts, and your glitter boy's power supply is running extremely low. You should find a place to resupply soon.
Player: OK I check my radar systems for nearby structures and lifesigns that would be indicative of a moderately sized settlement
GM: You find one, and it doesnt take you long to get there! Just as you make it, your power supply goes offline because it needs refueling.
Player: *rolls eyes* "So much for playing a glitter boy. Next time I'll just roll up a robot pilot and start with a suit whose value is likely to be far greater than the glitter boy, but I wont be unfairly penalized because theyre not actually glitter boys"

[Lt Gargoyle]

Also, The Boom Gun is a railgun(arguably a coilgun/mass driver). The bullets/shells for the thing are nothing more than metal slugs in a sabot. Extremely simple to manufacture even with limited tools.

Okay, grab a hammer and start making one.
I'll watch.

Obvious troll is obvious. *finger*

Lt. Garg, I'm sure that youve got some really great ideas for stories, and your players enjoy them. But I think that the way youre describing the way you start these guys off it seems like this:

Player: I wanna play with the glitter boy suit!
GM: Thats fine, roll up a character
*player rolls up a glitter boy OCC*
GM: Ok, game starts, and your glitter boy's power supply is running extremely low. You should find a place to resupply soon.
Player: OK I check my radar systems for nearby structures and lifesigns that would be indicative of a moderately sized settlement
GM: You find one, and it doesnt take you long to get there! Just as you make it, your power supply goes offline because it needs refueling.
Player: *rolls eyes* "So much for playing a glitter boy. Next time I'll just roll up a robot pilot and start with a suit whose value is likely to be far greater than the glitter boy, but I wont be unfairly penalized because theyre not actually glitter boys"

Actually I am very up front with the players with how a game is going to start. It just depends on how I want my campaign to start. Since I never have a fully set campaign. I learned from the many groups I have GMed in the past.

[Balabanto]

A GB is powerful in open combat. Underground, a Glitterboy is a 770 MD shield that provides cover.

[Starmage21]

Remember, "shiny" doesn't show up on radar. Giant robots and walkers do. As well as squads of infantry with radios.

but shiny cannot camouflage, therefore he has small chances to hide

Shiny can camouflage a lot better than you think it can. In fact, the only time when mirror-like shiny ISNT a great set of camo is when the sun is shining directly down on it.

If you dont believe me then just test it yourself. Have a buddy hide a mirror in a forest without covering it with anything. Then, go try and find it. Take note of how close to the thing you had to get before you actually noticed it, probobly because it was square. The only chance youre going to have to notice it at distance is if there is a glare.

Camo nets and spray paint are great for hiding the glare of a glitter boy.

[runebeo]

As good as the laser resistance armor is, why not just paint it with over with camouflage, black, green, gray or a sandy brown paint. I know from our game lasers are not a big issue for GBs its missiles that are their big weakness. The Sky Hawk GB transport says in its write up its laser resistant, but is also painted over so it won`t get spotted as quick and no penalties are mentioned for that. If the paint is blasted with a laser it would just burn it off revealing the reflective surface. You could also cover it in mud for a partial camouflaged effect in a pinch.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Have a buddy hide a mirror in a forest without covering it with anything. .

do that with a mirrored tank and then i wll stand corrected, if the tank could hide well enough in front of battle ready inf.

Paint will negate the damage reduction against lasers, moving with cam nets has their own disadvantages

Actually in the woods the mirror effects will be very useful. As the images you would be seeing is the surrounding woods, ground and sky. So yes I think Starmage has a good point. Size will not matter from a distance. But the reflection of bright lights would be very bad for the hiden GB.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Then tell me why modern forces take so much effort to camouflage their tanks?

Because they are not using reflective surfaces to do the job for them. I am not saying that a GB suit in the open will not draw line of site for being shot at. but in the woods the reflections of trees from every angle is going to give it an ever changing camo.

And to answer your question, how many tanks are made with laser reflective alloy? It is to conceal and break thier lines so the enemy can not easily see them.

I once read somewhere that there is a group of scientist working on a suit that uses reflective beads to make thier wearer nearly invisible. it reflects the images to the opposite side so you would see the world as if the wearer was not even there. I can not remember which science, learning mag or even the net I read that on only that it was like 4 years ago.

[Killer Cyborg]

Then tell me why modern forces take so much effort to camouflage their tanks?

Because they are not using reflective surfaces to do the job for them. I am not saying that a GB suit in the open will not draw line of site for being shot at. but in the woods the reflections of trees from every angle is going to give it an ever changing camo.

Here's a practical method to test that theory:
Get some buddies, then go play paintball in the woods.
Let everybody else wear normal cammo or street clothes.
You get to wrap yourself in aluminum foil.

Let me know how well it works.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Then tell me why modern forces take so much effort to camouflage their tanks?

Because they are not using reflective surfaces to do the job for them. I am not saying that a GB suit in the open will not draw line of site for being shot at. but in the woods the reflections of trees from every angle is going to give it an ever changing camo.

Here's a practical method to test that theory:
Get some buddies, then go play paintball in the woods.
Let everybody else wear normal cammo or street clothes.
You get to wrap yourself in aluminum foil.

Let me know how well it works.

While I would love to get one of my friends to let me wrap in in foil, it is not the same as a mirror.

[Killer Cyborg]

Then tell me why modern forces take so much effort to camouflage their tanks?

Because they are not using reflective surfaces to do the job for them. I am not saying that a GB suit in the open will not draw line of site for being shot at. but in the woods the reflections of trees from every angle is going to give it an ever changing camo.

Here's a practical method to test that theory:
Get some buddies, then go play paintball in the woods.
Let everybody else wear normal cammo or street clothes.
You get to wrap yourself in aluminum foil.

Let me know how well it works.

While I would love to get one of my friends to let me wrap in in foil, it is not the same as a mirror.

Close enough.

But if you prefer to glue a bunch of tiny mirrors on you, feel free to go with that.

Please post the test results on YouTube.

[Cybermancer]

http://everything2.com/title/The%2520si ... oncealment

[runebeo]

I just found the that rule today as well.

The camouflage paint is an S.D.C. substance, so attacks, especially from M.D. weapons, would quickly remove most of it to reveal the laser resistant chrome of the G10A1, restoring its advantage against lasers.

Kevin wrote that in 1995. While the chrome is nice a little extra stealth is worth taking a little extra damage on the first few shots. Every GB pilot should carry a few different colors cans of spray paint for the times being spotted may cost him he's life. If your in a heavily damaged GB its hard to get away when you shine for miles away.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

First I'd like to say, yay it's not locked yet! Second, a Glitterboy doesn't reflect, it refracts, thats why it is resistant to lasers. Third, the whole reflective camo thing, works best is space. And even then, its been proven that mimicking the surroundings works much better than reflecting them. Thats why we have pattern camo and not Mirror Ghillies. I think the sdc-paint-makes-your-armor-advantages-non-existant-rule to be rather...can't think of a term that encompasses how illogical this is.

[runebeo]

First I'd like to say, yay it's not locked yet! Second, a Glitterboy doesn't reflect, it refracts, thats why it is resistant to lasers. Third, the whole reflective camo thing, works best is space. And even then, its been proven that mimicking the surroundings works much better than reflecting them. Thats why we have pattern camo and not Mirror Ghillies. I think the sdc-paint-makes-your-armor-advantages-non-existant-rule to be rather...can't think of a term that encompasses how illogical this is.

How is it illogical to want to stop shining for miles away for certain missions. Both the Sky Hawk GB transport in Free Quebec and G10A1 in Rifts Japan are both painted over for greater stealth. Kevin wrote both of them so I think he know a little on the chrome armor subject.

[Killer Cyborg]

First I'd like to say, yay it's not locked yet! Second, a Glitterboy doesn't reflect, it refracts, thats why it is resistant to lasers. Third, the whole reflective camo thing, works best is space. And even then, its been proven that mimicking the surroundings works much better than reflecting them. Thats why we have pattern camo and not Mirror Ghillies. I think the sdc-paint-makes-your-armor-advantages-non-existant-rule to be rather...can't think of a term that encompasses how illogical this is.

How is it illogical to want to stop shining for miles away for certain missions. Both the Sky Hawk GB transport in Free Quebec and G10A1 in Rifts Japan are both painted over for greater stealth. Kevin wrote both of them so I think he know a little on the chrome armor subject.

Kev's name is on them, but that doesn't mean he wrote them.
Usually, it means he rewrote them, cleaning up somebody else's manuscript.

But you're mistaking what he's saying above.
He's not saying that camouflage is a bad idea, he's saying that it makes no sense to have SDC paint negate the armor's resistance to lasers.
And he's right.
It seems to be an attempt at balance that has no thought toward realism.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

Sorry about the confusion caused there. I was saying that there should be no penalty for paint. It's kinda dumd. I'm glad that the author was nice enough to try to counter balance removing one of the GB's patent weakness'. IE shiny. However, sdc paint would in no way hinder a MD laser, or the refractive alloy once said paint was instantly removed do to the searing effect of said laser. It just makes no sense, and I hate illogical things( yet somehow love Rifts). It is nice to know that the author was tinking of us and our munchkins tho. Btw, do any of you give your glitter boys back up weapons? either by installing them in the forearm storage compartment, rimouski, or just carrying a separate gun?

[Starmage21]

Sorry about the confusion caused there. I was saying that there should be no penalty for paint. It's kinda dumd. I'm glad that the author was nice enough to try to counter balance removing one of the GB's patent weakness'. IE shiny. However, sdc paint would in no way hinder a MD laser, or the refractive alloy once said paint was instantly removed do to the searing effect of said laser. It just makes no sense, and I hate illogical things( yet somehow love Rifts). It is nice to know that the author was tinking of us and our munchkins tho. Btw, do any of you give your glitter boys back up weapons? either by installing them in the forearm storage compartment, rimouski, or just carrying a separate gun?

back-up weapons are what the TX-550 Glitter Boy is for.

Glitter Boy O.C.C.s dont need backup weapons. The ONLY weapon they need is the boom gun

[Killer Cyborg]

Btw, do any of you give your glitter boys back up weapons?

Almost always.
Usually at least a robot-sized vibro-blade or other melee weapon.
Also, we tend to allow any weapon to be modified to be used by a GB or other bot, so other energy rifles and such are pretty common as well.
It's good to have a backup weapon.

[Starmage21]

Sorry about the confusion caused there. I was saying that there should be no penalty for paint. It's kinda dumd. I'm glad that the author was nice enough to try to counter balance removing one of the GB's patent weakness'. IE shiny. However, sdc paint would in no way hinder a MD laser, or the refractive alloy once said paint was instantly removed do to the searing effect of said laser. It just makes no sense, and I hate illogical things( yet somehow love Rifts). It is nice to know that the author was tinking of us and our munchkins tho. Btw, do any of you give your glitter boys back up weapons? either by installing them in the forearm storage compartment, rimouski, or just carrying a separate gun?

back-up weapons are what the TX-550 Glitter Boy is for.

Glitter Boy O.C.C.s dont need backup weapons. The ONLY weapon they need is the boom gun

If I were to play one I would insist on installing or carrying a back-up weapon. I would probably just play the NGR version if I could since they already have the weapons. It's not very prudent to rely on only one weapon in combat, it can be damaged or suffer a malfunction and then you are screwed. The ammo feed belt is very vulnerable and if damaged will cause the GB to have to reload each shot by hand and cut his/her attacks in half.

I the Glitter Boy O.C.C. doesnt get a free weapon per W.P. like most other classes do (might have something to do with so heavily relying on the suit), but nothing prevents you from taking the heavy weapon from the first coalition squad you annihlate.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

Sorry about the confusion caused there. I was saying that there should be no penalty for paint. It's kinda dumd. I'm glad that the author was nice enough to try to counter balance removing one of the GB's patent weakness'. IE shiny. However, sdc paint would in no way hinder a MD laser, or the refractive alloy once said paint was instantly removed do to the searing effect of said laser. It just makes no sense, and I hate illogical things( yet somehow love Rifts). It is nice to know that the author was tinking of us and our munchkins tho. Btw, do any of you give your glitter boys back up weapons? either by installing them in the forearm storage compartment, rimouski, or just carrying a separate gun?

back-up weapons are what the TX-550 Glitter Boy is for.

Glitter Boy O.C.C.s dont need backup weapons. The ONLY weapon they need is the boom gun

If I were to play one I would insist on installing or carrying a back-up weapon. I would probably just play the NGR version if I could since they already have the weapons. It's not very prudent to rely on only one weapon in combat, it can be damaged or suffer a malfunction and then you are screwed. The ammo feed belt is very vulnerable and if damaged will cause the GB to have to reload each shot by hand and cut his/her attacks in half.

I the Glitter Boy O.C.C. doesnt get a free weapon per W.P. like most other classes do (might have something to do with so heavily relying on the suit), but nothing prevents you from taking the heavy weapon from the first coalition squad you annihlate.

lol

I had a CIWS coalition juicer weapon installed in the left forearm and linked it to run off of the nuke cell. It was munchkin. I also have had NG-45LP installed in the same spot to be slightly less munchkin, or carried a different robot sized weapon. I have also used alternate rounds created for the boomgun, that can be fun depending on what you use.

[runebeo]

Our Glitter Girl's backup weapon is a TX-500 Triax Cyborg Rail Gun (6D6 M.D. with 4000 ft) and carries some extra silver rounds in case some undead or were-beasts pop up.

[runebeo]

If I don't allow GB's it's for campaign reasons. But most of the time that rules out ALL PA suits as well as a number of other characters (Combat Cyborgs, Dragons etc.) Say when I am running an espionage campaign

Sometime I houserule stuff so the players won't have equipment at campaign start. Again that is due to the design and they ALL start out without the stuff. Did so for a "City Rats" campaign once, they all started out as CRs but already "weighted" towards the final character classes. Magic users got gimped (IIRC one level less than the others)

If I allow GB than the players can be resonably sure to find a way to repair and reload. And to hell with "canon", the GM's job is to generate FUN not to hurt a player. If you don't like a Character Class, don't allow it. I.e I dislike mages/psions so I restrict the selection of magic and psionic classes. But do so BEFORE the game starts. Once you allow a class, don't gimp it. After all the player (at least all players I care for) selected it to have fun, not to be frustrated(1)

==================================

As for the GB's tactical use: It's a KaJaPa or Strv-103 tankhunter. Wait in ambush, kill and scoot. The laser-reflective paint is there for final escape once the evil hordes(2) finally break through and it drops the "ghilly suit/cammo poncho" and runs. Using cammo and overhead cover (forrests) it's very difficult to find even using Thermals or Radar (3 meters isn't all that high for an Armored Fighting Vehicle) and it's deep fording capabilities are excellent. Sure if the enemy get's into it's rear it has problems. But that is what teamwork and/or infantry support is for. Infantry doesn't have to kill the enemy, just Inform the GB that the enemy is coming

Killing a GB in a full battlefield environment is a matter of firepower and maps. Doing "Recon by LARS" helps a lot and is doabel in the Rifts system(3). Again it might not KILL the GB but it will damage lightly armored parts (He's not a 770MDC "block" but has lighter armored locations) and strip away cover and (more important) support infantry. So launch a spread of plasma Minis at every tree group.

The GB's range is not that big an advantage unless your battleground is "Norddeutsche Tiefebene" or "Kuwait Desert" Most terrains have ranges well below 2000m and various points that break LOS, allowing for covered movement. And yes, that includes trees since they reflect/absorb RADAR (4) and the RIFTS sensor technology is NOT using magical rays but the good old electromagnetic spectrum. And since the BG is a single round weapon you can't go "maschinegun" on a lateral moving target

As for ammo supply, the 100 rounds sound more realistic if comparing it to the GBs stated size/weight and real world vehicles. Canon may state different but the GMs word is the final one. So if GBs are around in my game it's 100 rounds. This also matches the fact that the rounds can be reloaded quite fast, even by the GB himself. Using 100 rounds single shot is an enormous task so the supply will likely last a battle. With 1000 rounds the speed-reload abilities are not needed

GB in a city is very dead very quickly unless he gets massiv support from his own infantry or artillery. Even assuming lot's of structure where he can "dig in and shoot" as I tend to do when GBs are allowed in my games the unit faces the classical "T80 in Grosny/Tiger in Warshaw" problem. Resonably fast and mobile targets above his normal LOS that at close range can move at least as fast as he can traverse. Granted he can kill a missile team with one shot but in the meantime another missile team gets a chance to fire.

Sure a GB can outrun Infantry. But what is that good for? In a city he will just run from ambush to ambush since his height restricts him from many buildings(5). And in the field that means he outruns his rear-guards/tripwire forces, again reducing it's combat strength. And sooner or later the food/water supply is exhausted (or the waste-removal system overflows) and the unit needs resupply. Resupply the GB outran

The GB, like the NGR Jager is the ultimate expression of "combined arms" On it's own a clever enemy will outflank it, wittle it down with missiles/artillery/planes(6) or simply bypass it. As the dedicated "tank/bot killer" of a combined arms force they work great. The Jager is more flexible with the add-on mounts and only needs some air support to round it out. OTOH the GB is more powerful in it's prime role but needs at least two units (a missile carrier and air support)

(1) Well, if a player considers it fun to be frustrated ... I get myself another player.

(2) Of varying color, RED was prefered back in my army days

(3) Using mini or short range missile systems arranged multi-launcher style, see NGR sourcebook

(4) Ground-clutter is a major problem for AA tanks trying to track low flying targets

(5) He could enter some office or industrial buildings even today with weight being the lesser problem, the floors should take him although he might break through raised technical flooring. But his 3+m size will be a problem since he looks unable to bend along the spine and somewhat stiff in the hips / knees

(6) COST isn't a major factor when it comes to killing an enemy tank. Nobody told Grandpa that he "should stop shooting because each round costs more than the M3 halftrack it was killing"

A GB is the big damage dealer of most group just like mages are in other games. I think the game was somewhat intended to included one in most games. Just look at the Atlantis book filled with millions of super tough creatures like the Metztla, Conservators, High Lords, Overlords, Maxi-Men and Gargoyles. From the first core book Atlantis was set to be the First or second main enemy to the players. Without a damage dealing powerhouse how do you deal with Murex Metztla with 5000 M.D.C. and loaded with psionics & electromagnetic cannons with a 4,000 feet range? A GB is one of the few things that can out range them and I know everyone says just missiles them, Well missiles cost a fortune and boomgun rounds are cheap.

GB mercenaries make lots of money, put some in to some modifications like getting some Chaff-Flare Decoys since missiles seem to be a GB Major Weakness. Think about getting a few Triax robots, robot dogs or robot horses to cover their back, lug your gear around, help with repairs and protect the pilot when their out of the GB. Robots are unaffected by the sonic boom and with the fur-like covers you can pass them of as the real thing. If a group runs low on money head to the East Coast and have the GB snipe some blind warrior women for their talismans to earn 10 million each and keep a few for the teammates.

[runebeo]

Games don't always need to be balanced at all, thats what makes Rifts so unique, while every other RPG are so closely balanced one class truly over powers another, well real life doesn't work like that at all. Look at D&D edition all the classes are so balanced it hardly matters what you play now. Is your uncle's bowling team full of pumpers, barbers, cooks & lawyers going to go out in the Forrest against a group well trained marines for a good old firefight, whose your money on. A GB is still a well trained man at arms who is skilled at piloting any number of vehicles and power armors. Have them switch vehicles from time to time, not every mission calls for a GB sometimes a SAMAS, aircraft or large APC is called for instead. Its a game that can be played without limits, try expanding your imagination for bigger things and remember other games wouldn't even let your player consider playing races as powerful as Cosmo-Knight, Norse Giant, Holy Terrors or even GB. Some groups of players give their GM at little too much say into what they can & can't play, I for one listen to my GM points then I'll say well let me try and see how it goes. If theres a problem we'll come to a compromise, like when I wanted to play a Raksasha and it turned out it was a little too powerful so with my GM assistance we lowered his I.S.P. pool a little and moved his strength by one strength level, it was 38 and lowered it to 33. I didn't play this character that long but really enjoyed the chance to try it. As good as some classes are every player should try a few different types from time to time.

[Lenwen]

I've never said no Glitterboy's in any of my settings or campaigns or situations. Do I think thier overpowered ? Absolutly not I tend to let my PC's start with anything Rcc & Occ combinations thier hearts desire so long as its Rule compatable .. or clearly marked as a NPC.

Or if its a sutiational character i.e. a character found no where else in the megaverse sept this spot here. In certain situations where there ARE cases of a certain racial class's are found in various spots .. then I simply add a roll vs me in that situation as per if he beats my rolls 2 outta 5 times then he gets that toon. I try to make the gamming as much fun as it can be. For my friends an myself.

*EDIT*
I always make sure the character has no choice in getting into and out of the Glitterboy i.e. Characters have to go threw a swamp area or small confined spaces in which both would force a GB Pilot to actually get out of the Suit.

[runebeo]

A GB can use thruster leaps to travel through a swamp. Still be an very annoying trip but he'll get there in time. Be a funny sight to see them playing leap frog from shore to shore and bolting out of the water.

[Vrykolas2k]

You can find imbalanced classes in almost any game including new D&D. Rifts at least doesn't pretend to balance. If GM's want to balance they can. If they feel comfortable running a group with everything from a Vagabond to a godling then they can do that too.

That's generally how I run, and it works very well.
Even the lowly vagabond has his/her moments to shine.
Not everything is about heavy combat, even in Rifts.

[Lenwen]

A GB can use thruster leaps to travel through a swamp. Still be an very annoying trip but he'll get there in time. Be a funny sight to see them playing leap frog from shore to shore and bolting out of the water.

As per the GB writeup .. GB Thrusters can only be on for a max amount of time for 60 seconds at most.

What happens to a Power Armor suit that hits the swamp after those 60 seconds are done weighing 1.2 tons ?

Yep, meet the most powerful boom gun ever sunken to the bottom of a swamp. which could be deeper then the GB is tall by alot, then that means those little thrusters are going to be working overtime to try to get itself out of the muck IF its lucky enough to make it out in the first place. They would eventually just have to eventually walk out of the mucky bottom of the swamp, and did he do it fast enough to help or hinder his team ? What if the swamp is not that deep but only waist high to the GB and the Grp is attacked ? GB attempts to use the Boomgun , and goes flying back up to 400ft, lose its initiative, and its next 1d4+3 melee actions,attacks.

Swamps are my secret against Glitterboys ..

[Mack]

The Sky Hawk GB transport says in its write up its laser resistant, but is also painted over so it won`t get spotted as quick and no penalties are mentioned for that.

Please cite exactly where you read that. I don't find it in the Sky Hawk description.

[Lenwen]

The Sky Hawk GB transport says in its write up its laser resistant, but is also painted over so it won`t get spotted as quick and no penalties are mentioned for that.

Please cite exactly where you read that. I don't find it in the Sky Hawk description.

Perhaps that was a mixup ?

As I know for a fact that in 1 of the many Glitterboy writeups it does say this. I just atm can not remember which 1 heh.

[runebeo]

The Sky Hawk GB transport says in its write up its laser resistant, but is also painted over so it won`t get spotted as quick and no penalties are mentioned for that.

Please cite exactly where you read that. I don't find it in the Sky Hawk description.

On page 59 under Free Quebec Cost: Glitter Boy armor technology is incorporated in strategic areas of the hull, particulary the flooring, but is painted to prevent "glitter."

It is very bad idea to put it in the cost section as it hard to spot there. People keep telling me the Sky Hawk don't even mention having laser resistant armor, but it does have it and its painted over.

[Lenwen]

The Sky Hawk GB transport says in its write up its laser resistant, but is also painted over so it won`t get spotted as quick and no penalties are mentioned for that.

Please cite exactly where you read that. I don't find it in the Sky Hawk description.

On page 59 under Free Quebec Cost: Glitter Boy armor technology is incorporated in strategic areas of the hull, particulary the flooring, but is painted to prevent "glitter."

It is very bad idea to put it in the cost section as it hard to spot there. People keep telling me the Sky Hawk don't even mention having laser resistant armor, but it does have it and its painted over.

Whoa , that is a GREAT catch man. I know for a fact I never seen that before. I personally thought you were talking about other GB's being painted to better conceal them in forrested area's which they do for a GB Variant in Japan , pg# 137-139.

[runebeo]

Our GB 7 is painted with camouflaged most of the time since we mainly fight supernatural creatures, most of our tech enemies use mostly non-laser weapons or some use variable frequency laser and having a little more stealth is worth taking a few more damage points on the first few hits. She also uses a Naruni medium forcefield and the GB 7 comes with a powerful shoulder Variable Frequency Laser Cannon (range of 8,000 feet dealing 2D4X10 M.D.) so being painted over comes in really handy for sniping with the laser cannon. They also use a Gatling rail gun that deals the same damage as a boom gun and just like the Glitter Girl you can swap it out for a real boom gun if the mission calls for it. Check it out in South America 2.

[Vrykolas2k]

Our GB 7 is painted with camouflaged most of the time since we mainly fight supernatural creatures, most of our tech enemies use mostly non-laser weapons or some use variable frequency laser and having a little more stealth is worth taking a few more damage points on the first few hits. She also uses a Naruni medium forcefield and the GB 7 comes with a powerful shoulder Variable Frequency Laser Cannon (range of 8,000 feet dealing 2D4X10 M.D.) so being painted over comes in really handy for sniping with the laser cannon. They also use a Gatling rail gun that deals the same damage as a boom gun and just like the Glitter Girl you can swap it out for a real boom gun if the mission calls for it. Check it out in South America 2.

Our group's GB has a Naruni cammo-sheet hooded robe...

[runebeo]

Naruni cammo-sheet hooded robe is a cool thing indeed, but cost allot and can be damaged while a can of spray paint is really cheap and easily replaced. If the hooded robe had some kind of reel-in system like a reverse parachute it would ROCK!

[Lenwen]

Glitterboy's worst nightmare of a battlefield . 3-6ft of swampy water over 4-6ft of muck in which you sink.

1 shot from that Boom gun = that glitterboy is pretty much out of the fight.

[Starmage21]

Glitterboy's worst nightmare of a battlefield . 3-6ft of swampy water over 4-6ft of muck in which you sink.

1 shot from that Boom gun = that glitterboy is pretty much out of the fight.

The glitter boy has a large foot base that would work in the muck a lot like snow-shoes do for people. He less to worry about getting stuck than a giant of the same size and weight. They also come equipped with these useful appendages called arms that end in a number of nearly-prehensile digits that are useful for grabbing trees and the rare vine that will hold long enough for him to keep moving.

[Lenwen]

Glitterboy's worst nightmare of a battlefield . 3-6ft of swampy water over 4-6ft of muck in which you sink.

1 shot from that Boom gun = that glitterboy is pretty much out of the fight.

The glitter boy has a large foot base that would work in the muck a lot like snow-shoes do for people. He less to worry about getting stuck than a giant of the same size and weight. They also come equipped with these useful appendages called arms that end in a number of nearly-prehensile digits that are useful for grabbing trees and the rare vine that will hold long enough for him to keep moving.

I hold no pretense of the GB "moving" threw such an enviorment. I however question his ability to shoot that boomgun and maintain an senblence of balance. Muck is not going to be able to solidly hold that Glitterboy, if he shot that boomgun since the two extentions wont be locked down tight in anything solid at all.

Therein lies the rub. And when I have a GB pilot in my grps, you can be sure they have to cross just such an enviorment at precisly .. the wrong time for an ambush by brigands of 1 type or another.

Glitterboy's are incredibly powerful. But a good GM know's how to play around the strength's of such a hugly offensive weapon and take advantage of not only the numbers games to overpower that glitterboy. But can just as easily use the terrain itself as a way to take away such a huge advantage when that advantage is abused.

[Starmage21]

Glitterboy's worst nightmare of a battlefield . 3-6ft of swampy water over 4-6ft of muck in which you sink.

1 shot from that Boom gun = that glitterboy is pretty much out of the fight.

The glitter boy has a large foot base that would work in the muck a lot like snow-shoes do for people. He less to worry about getting stuck than a giant of the same size and weight. They also come equipped with these useful appendages called arms that end in a number of nearly-prehensile digits that are useful for grabbing trees and the rare vine that will hold long enough for him to keep moving.

I hold no pretense of the GB "moving" threw such an enviorment. I however question his ability to shoot that boomgun and maintain an senblence of balance. Muck is not going to be able to solidly hold that Glitterboy, if he shot that boomgun since the two extentions wont be locked down tight in anything solid at all.

Therein lies the rub. And when I have a GB pilot in my grps, you can be sure they have to cross just such an enviorment at precisly .. the wrong time for an ambush by brigands of 1 type or another.

Glitterboy's are incredibly powerful. But a good GM know's how to play around the strength's of such a hugly offensive weapon and take advantage of not only the numbers games to overpower that glitterboy. But can just as easily use the terrain itself as a way to take away such a huge advantage when that advantage is abused.

Ahh I misunderstood the nature of the discussion then, and now having it spelled out for me leads me to another conundrum. It has been said on these forums (I cant remember where, so consider this mere anecdotal evidence) that its the jet pack that absorbs the majority of recoil, and the pylons are mainly for maintaining perfect balance when shooting. If that is the case, then it may be up to the glitter boy to use his own skills to maintain balance when firing a shot in the swamp. Perhaps another use for those Sense of Balance percentages that are included in the Acrobatics and Gymnastics physical skills!

Even if that is not the case, the pylons should still be more than effective in muck unless its extremely loose stuff (the kind that the GB would have trouble standing in anyway). If youre shooting for realism, the best option is probobly to make your glitter boy pilots spend an action finding a suitable spot for his pilons to plant before he fires the Boom Gun.

[Killer Cyborg]

Glitterboy's worst nightmare of a battlefield . 3-6ft of swampy water over 4-6ft of muck in which you sink.

1 shot from that Boom gun = that glitterboy is pretty much out of the fight.

The glitter boy has a large foot base that would work in the muck a lot like snow-shoes do for people. He less to worry about getting stuck than a giant of the same size and weight. They also come equipped with these useful appendages called arms that end in a number of nearly-prehensile digits that are useful for grabbing trees and the rare vine that will hold long enough for him to keep moving.

I hold no pretense of the GB "moving" threw such an enviorment. I however question his ability to shoot that boomgun and maintain an senblence of balance. Muck is not going to be able to solidly hold that Glitterboy, if he shot that boomgun since the two extentions wont be locked down tight in anything solid at all.

Therein lies the rub. And when I have a GB pilot in my grps, you can be sure they have to cross just such an enviorment at precisly .. the wrong time for an ambush by brigands of 1 type or another.

Glitterboy's are incredibly powerful. But a good GM know's how to play around the strength's of such a hugly offensive weapon and take advantage of not only the numbers games to overpower that glitterboy. But can just as easily use the terrain itself as a way to take away such a huge advantage when that advantage is abused.

Ahh I misunderstood the nature of the discussion then, and now having it spelled out for me leads me to another conundrum. It has been said on these forums (I cant remember where, so consider this mere anecdotal evidence) that its the jet pack that absorbs the majority of recoil, and the pylons are mainly for maintaining perfect balance when shooting.

Correct.
The only listed penalties for firing a boom gun without the pylons engaged is that every shot after the first is Wild (CB1).
Presumably because although the recoil suppression system keeps him upright, he is staggered a bit.
Also presumably, this is probably assuming that each shot is fired in rapid succession. If the GB took an attack/action to get his bearings, to aim, or to do something else other than crank out the next shot, he'd probably reset back to having no penalties on his next shot.

[Starmage21]

Can't say much more than what's already been said.

I'm starting a game for my best friend of over 20 years, our wives, and my son.

It came as no surprise that when looking over OCCs he says "Dad, I want to be a Glitter Boy!" Ok, he's 10, has always been into the clank-clank-I'm-a-tank style (first WoW character, Prot. Paladin; first D&D character full-plate 1/2 orc fighter), and the GB's really spiffy-lookin'.

So I sit down with him and start going over the OCC, we get to the Armor itself and he says "I changed my mind, what else can I use, Dad?" I hadn't even gotten to the pylons yet and he'd already recognized that the GB was immobilized while firing.

Now, in my opinion, if a 10yr old can spot the biggest chink in the GB Armor, it can't possibly be an overpowered piece of gear.

Now, I have GM'd groups who do very well with the GB, using squad tactics, with the GB as their pigman, a heavy combat 'borg or another Power Armor/Bot (usually the team Operator) as his backup, and a metamorphed Dragon or Juicer as the pointman, and so on.

Successfully using the GB armor in combat requires planning, forethought into group tactics, and reactive creativity, but it CAN be done.

(for those wondering, he still decided to paint a bullseye on his PA M.O.S. by being the proud new owner of a Wild Weasel SAMAS... )

I tend to imagine it as a mobile machine until that trigger is pulled, then it comes to a sudden abrupt stop. After that he can get on the run again.

[Killer Cyborg]

I hadn't even gotten to the pylons yet and he'd already recognized that the GB was immobilized while firing.

Now, in my opinion, if a 10yr old can spot the biggest chink in the GB Armor, it can't possibly be an overpowered piece of gear.

He's wrong, though.
The biggest chink in their armor is that it's a bright, shiny target that is a high-priority for every enemy, but that takes special facilities and massive amounts of money to repair.

The fact that they cannot both run and shoot their weapon at the same time rarely comes up, not with a 2 mile range.
The pylons engage automatically and instantly when the weapon is fired, and there's nothing indicating that they don't retract just as swiftly.
As long as you don't try to fire while your feet are in motion, there's nothing immobilizing about it; most soldiers and power armor tend to stand in one spot while firing if they're going for any accuracy.

[Killer Cyborg]

I hadn't even gotten to the pylons yet and he'd already recognized that the GB was immobilized while firing.

Now, in my opinion, if a 10yr old can spot the biggest chink in the GB Armor, it can't possibly be an overpowered piece of gear.

He's wrong, though.
The biggest chink in their armor is that it's a bright, shiny target that is a high-priority for every enemy, but that takes special facilities and massive amounts of money to repair.

The fact that they cannot both run and shoot their weapon at the same time rarely comes up, not with a 2 mile range.
The pylons engage automatically and instantly when the weapon is fired, and there's nothing indicating that they don't retract just as swiftly.
As long as you don't try to fire while your feet are in motion, there's nothing immobilizing about it; most soldiers and power armor tend to stand in one spot while firing if they're going for any accuracy.

I had a player that throw a poncho that was camo-colored over his GB. Took care of that shiny issue most of the time.

Not a bad idea (it's come up before, too).
It would have to be specially made to take into account the recoil suppression system, but it's definitely a plus.
It's still going to be a primary target in most combats, because it's the biggest threat, but at least the enemy won't see it coming for miles on a sunny day.

[Killer Cyborg]

I hadn't even gotten to the pylons yet and he'd already recognized that the GB was immobilized while firing.

Now, in my opinion, if a 10yr old can spot the biggest chink in the GB Armor, it can't possibly be an overpowered piece of gear.

He's wrong, though.

Sheesh KC, arguing with a 10yo. That's low even for you.

True enough.
But wrong is wrong.

[Killer Cyborg]

Correct on all fronts, That is just how I played it...... Are you sure your not a Mind Melter?

Shifter, actually.