Nightlords vs. Others

[MrMom]

Just how powerful are the nightlords? Could say Moloch defeat Thoth in a one on one? Also are the nightlords classified as AI or gods or other?

[drewkitty ~..~]

Just how powerful are the nightlords? 1) Could say Moloch defeat Thoth in a one on one? 2)Also are the nightlords classified as AI or gods or other?

1) no, Thoth would win, in a one on one fight.
2) the would be AI splinters, avatars of the dark.

[Warwolf]

The Nightlords are something akin to an extremely powerful master vampire in that they have accepted a fragment of The Dark unto themselves which has forever corrupted and changed them.

As far as them vs. Thoth... I would have to give it to the Nightlords. Remember that the Baal are the only beings I've ever seen in Palladium that have collapsed and entire DIMENSION. Now, if it were the Nightlords vs. the Egyptian Gods of Light... that would be a much more level battlefield.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I think that they would find being compared to a master vampire to be insulting. it would take a whole nest of vampires to be a threat to a nightlord. and also... they are seriously the ONLY beings in palladium that have collapsed a dimension? I have made up beings that use entire planets as toys... and they're certainly not fully-fledged gods from what i understand...
one more thing. what the heck is an alien intelligence, anyway? can someone explain that and give me rules for making new ones for my games?

AI's are found in BTS1, RCB1, and RDC.

[drewkitty ~..~]

pardon my being new to this, but..... huh?

Go here

[drewkitty ~..~]

also... is there a table somewhere online that can help me make alien intelligences? i just spent my allowance for the month last week on a new nightbane book... and not even the good one!!!

There shouldn't be. But try googling it to see what you get.

[The Dark Elf]

RDC wasnt on the list

[AzathothXy]

RDC wasnt on the list

I think it should be CB3, going by that list.

[LunarYoma]

Just how powerful are the nightlords? Could say Moloch defeat Thoth in a one on one? Also are the nightlords classified as AI or gods or other?

i put the average nightlord as being equal to an adult dragon or 'lesser god'. as for moloch taking on Thoth in a one on one fight, thoth wins.

[Specter]

also... is there a table somewhere online that can help me make alien intelligences? i just spent my allowance for the month last week on a new nightbane book... and not even the good one!!!

I thought there was a table for this in Shadows of Light... or rather I guess that's just for a vampire intelligence... so nm. But, As a rule of thumb Alien intelligences that decide to manifest in our world will be at least as poweful as a vampire intelligence, so it would be a good starting point.

[Rallan]

Just how powerful are the nightlords? Could say Moloch defeat Thoth in a one on one? Also are the nightlords classified as AI or gods or other?

i put the average nightlord as being equal to an adult dragon or 'lesser god'. as for moloch taking on Thoth in a one on one fight, thoth wins.

Not necessarily. Thoth is secretly Xy, leader of the Great Old Ones (the baddest badass alien intelligence dudes EVAR according to PFRPG's backstory) and just doesn't remember it. Moloch has a secret hotline to The Dark, an entity so bad that it can act through Moloch to collapse entire dimensions full of demons. Basically they've both pretty much got whatever Super Top Sekrit game-breaking powers the authors decide to give 'em, so the winner is "whoever the GM wants" rather than whoever's got the best stats.

[Steeler49er]

Thoth FTW... Hands down!
That is, of course, if it were just One on One! Not even Thoth could take on Every single Night lord all at once. That's suicide and as much as Thoth is a fickle headed WaCk job, I'd think even he could see that.

The First time Intelligences were given roll-up stats was in the Very First "Rifts Conversion Book I" and by now they could use a minor up date since soooooo many spells, powers, psi-powers, and OCC/PCC/MCC's have opened up for them. Additionally Thoth being a god can use "Prototypical Defic Powers" as per normal rules found in the "Dragons and Gods" hand book. Alien-Intels and some Demon lords can use them as well but any Prototypical Defic Powers are deadly costly for them to use and are often weaker and the amount usable is often Less than True gods.

Gods have already gone up vs. Nightlords and lost-(Inti got his booty handed back to him!!!). The NightLords are Classed as being the equivalent of Witches that are as powerful as godling or even full on gods... IE as powerful as the Actual Intelligence of normal witches! Which is a vey scary Realization. Think abOOt it (OH Cannada) for a second- A Witch that is as powerful as the Very Alien Intelligences that create witches... So by comparison "The Dark" would have to be 1000X's more powerful than a standard Intelligence!
Which is about what he was desribed as quite possably being, After all The Dark is said to be one of the Old Ones (You know, Thoths ye' Old Crew).



FYI-The Nightlords are likely VERY much aware of Thoths existance (Like, 99.999999999999999% aware) and would Likely try and bone out of such a fight. It's also likely that with 10,000+ years of Nightlord activity on Earth Thoth (Who may even have helped seal them away during that War of "Light & Dark" for all we know) is Equaly likely aware of Them.
SplYnnY would have a VERY tough fight on with good all 'BaLL Nezzy' Molech mono-E-Mono (which I hear is a Kissing disease ).




NOW AN ELIGHTENED IMMORTAL WOULD KICK ALL THE NightLords @$$3$ cuz they're just TeH BomB!

[Warwolf]

Thoth FTW... Hands down!
That is, of course, if it were just One on One! Not even Thoth could take on Every single Night lord all at once. That's suicide and as much as Thoth is a fickle headed WaCk job, I'd think even he could see that.

Agreed, as I doubt The Dark would go out of its way to save ONE of its minions... but the whole group? Well, let's just say that would risk a conflict on scale with the Minion War.

[Steeler49er]

The "Minion Wars" are a series of conflicts And books inwhich the Minions of Dyvval, Hades and other locations have gone to war. The war is spilling over into Many Palladium books.
Here's one such book for Rifts.

[Anthar]

Destroying an entire dimension is not that great a feat depending on which dimension gets destroyed. Dyval, for example can be destroyed by penetrating into Sahtalus citadel and destroying the Soul chamber that powers the citadel. This would be a relatively easy task for a Nightlord to accomplish.

[Steeler49er]

The Power to Destroy an entire dimension is nothing compaired to the Power of the Force

[MrMom]

Give in to your hate. Let the power of the Dark flow through you.

[Her0man0]

it would be a great battle but i think the nightlords would win in a contest of might with almost any pantheon from pantheons of the megaverse as long as the nightspawn of vampires didnt jump in, and you know they would. The nightlords as a whole could be considered thier own pantheon of "gods"

most of the stats in pantheons have thier sdc conversion and it lowers most of them to the 2000 to 6000 sdc range, moloch has what 6000 sdc (off the top of my head) not to mention his minions, avitars, and fellow nightlords.

so like the olympian pantheon which only zues, aries, hercules, artemis, and maybe Hades would actually fight (with thier respective minions of course), IMHO the olympian pantheon would be outclassed and the nightlords would win, unless zues called in the hundred handed at which point the nightlords better hope for The Dark to step in and save thier butts. but lets not forget the titans, the few that are left might just throw thier hats into the ring, like sharks smelling blood in the water....

so all in all i would have to say the nightlords are equal if not stronger than the average pantheon of gods, but i wonder what an mdc conversion would look like for them and thier minions, it wouldnt be a 1 to 1 conversion (sdc to mdc), that would be cool to see

on a different note, the nightlord avitar rcc is a playable character, it would be interesting to see if they would survive being rifted away from the nightlord that created them and see what they do as a villain on thier own, maybe even go up against cosmo knights and the like.....

[Steeler49er]

is that a star wars referance? if so, let it be known that i deeply hate star wars.

Yup


And That's okay with me that you don't like S.W., I just wanted to see who got the referance first as, I'm just horrendiously Sarcastic- (I couldn't care less about some sci-fi flick like SW or Star Trek)

[Steeler49er]

it would be a great battle but i think the nightlords would win in a contest of might with almost any pantheon from pantheons of the megaverse as long as the nightspawn of vampires didnt jump in, and you know they would. The nightlords as a whole could be considered thier own pantheon of "gods"

most of the stats in pantheons have thier sdc conversion and it lowers most of them to the 2000 to 6000 sdc range, moloch has what 6000 sdc (off the top of my head) not to mention his minions, avitars, and fellow nightlords.

so like the olympian pantheon which only zues, aries, hercules, artemis, and maybe Hades would actually fight (with thier respective minions of course), IMHO the olympian pantheon would be outclassed and the nightlords would win, unless zues called in the hundred handed at which point the nightlords better hope for The Dark to step in and save thier butts. but lets not forget the titans, the few that are left might just throw thier hats into the ring, like sharks smelling blood in the water....

so all in all i would have to say the nightlords are equal if not stronger than the average pantheon of gods, but i wonder what an mdc conversion would look like for them and thier minions, it wouldnt be a 1 to 1 conversion (sdc to mdc), that would be cool to see

on a different note, the nightlord avitar rcc is a playable character, it would be interesting to see if they would survive being rifted away from the nightlord that created them and see what they do as a villain on thier own, maybe even go up against cosmo knights and the like.....

The book (Between the Shadows) gave them upwards of 12,K MDC... Same as many of the "Gods 'O' Light".
And as much as I would give an arm and a leg to be one (TeHy TeH MoSteSt kewl L33t...) the Nightlords in a header Vs. the Greek Panthion of Light (GPL... Sounds like a DC team ) would Lose, Bad.
I've gone over their stats and allies, tactics and mind set and the GPL are just all around 20-25% better. Plus they, the GPL, have access to Prototyplical Deific powers which as a matter of point, the Nightlords do Not. The Nightlords have Low intell on the GPL and Low access to advanced tech. The NL's powers are Very Kewl fer sure but their obssesion with relying on said powers has set them back big time. Many in the GPL have inate powers which require NO PPE expendature, can summon minions in seconds, Have access to Rune tech, Are in good or Great with Other Panthions of Light, Can and often Do have access to Psychic powers, and ACTUAL armies that are readied for full all out war with Other gods.

The GPL is just better and much more well rounded. Additionally and maybe most importantly the NL are a factured and self serving lot making Any concerted efforts in defensive and offensive actions a problem. The armies of Zeus are generally Very well ordered and will be Much less likely to rout in battle. The NL's hounds are their Best force as their Own powers are Very draining And that PPE is their life blood. The GPL also has Bonified worshipers which are constantly fueling PPE to them in large amounts. Additionally, Each of the NL's power are exactly the same and the GPLs are not, and that is a VERY and exploitable and big flaw for the NL. Zero diversity.

The Nightprinces powers are utterly usless up against beings that can endow everyone of their forces with immunity to illusion. The forces of the GPL are likely numbered into the millions... Their cohesive and work as a unit. The NLs forces are in the millions-but are Not cohesive.


Thoth, GPL and many others fer the win.

[Her0man0]

touche steeler49er, well answered, i change my vote on principle of logic, when your right your right.

It sounds like the gods of light would win hands down unless of course the gods of darkness were to throw in thier hats to the nightlords, in which case anyone could win

[Steeler49er]

touche steeler49er, well answered, i change my vote on principle of logic, when your right your right.

It sounds like the gods of light would win hands down unless of course the gods of darkness were to throw in thier hats to the nightlords, in which case anyone could win

Ehh??
O geez I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to shoot you down
I'm very sure that the Nightlords could beat them if under the right circumstances... I didn't mean to come of like a know it all jerk. I hope you didn't take it that way, I could still be way off on my assesment.

Thank you fer the compliment and I'm truely sorry if I sounded rude

[AzathothXy]

But ultimately, how many Nightlords are there? A big enough army of them would be devastaing, even to a pantheon.

[Steeler49er]

The Nightlords are something akin to an extremely powerful master vampire in that they have accepted a fragment of The Dark unto themselves which has forever corrupted and changed them.

As far as them vs. Thoth... I would have to give it to the Nightlords. Remember that the Baal are the only beings I've ever seen in Palladium that have collapsed and entire DIMENSION. Now, if it were the Nightlords vs. the Egyptian Gods of Light... that would be a much more level battlefield.

Even your weaker Nightlords are still zounds above a petty Master Vampire. They're more on the realm of godlings or something. The ones who are directly connected (Moloch and the Russian one) more like total gods.

We have to remember: these guys can make avatars. That's a god-like ability in itself. They can also make astral domains through astral avatars, the equivilent (in some cases better than) a deific realm.

As well put as your point is (Dead accurate) Tycol, Warwolf wasn't using the Vampire referance as a description of power levels, rather just as a ruff (Rough) example of the NL's be connected to the Dark. And It's a good description but would be better to be put as Molech being the Master and Fully aware of his creator Intelligence, and the other Night Lords are Secondary Vampire Likely getting their powers from Molech (as he'd be the only one with knowledge of the Dark). You can be bit by a Master Vamp and likely know little if anything about your Vampire Intel...

Thoth being a god can use "Prototypical Defic Powers" as per normal rules found in the "Dragons and Gods" hand book. Alien-Intels and some Demon lords can use them as well but any Prototypical Defic Powers are deadly costly for them to use and are often weaker and the amount usable is often Less than True gods.

The prototypical deific powers actually are not all that impressive. Stuff like manifestation are certainly good, but that's 2 copies max whereas Nightlords can create an amount of avatars comparable to the Deevil Lords (albeit, with more of an investment). The amount usable isn't any less than true gods, I have never seen any being with deific powers in D&G who did not have access to all of them. The Dyval sourcebook seems to have forgotten that and said something like they have 1D4, so I take it that would apply to NEW Deevil Lords, whereas the current ones have been around long enough to learn all of them (even if they had to do it at half power). Alien intelligences in particular pay as much as gods, only some weak gods and lesser deevil/demon lords need to pay double.

Thoth's main power lies in his extreme experience in valuable OCCs, in his unique deific powers, and in his manipulation of the pantheon of Light and general friendliness with most parties (who hates him besides Amon/Utu? Chantico?) Thoth's genius & ability to suck PPE at no cost is only rivaled by the dwarf of the northern pantheon. With gods or nightlords, it often comes down to long-term PPE warfare, that ability requiring limited cost and no investment is crippling. As is the Rune Strike.

If you think of the number of followers, his OCC power is just scary. I'm pretty sure anyone who realized the full implication of what that means about his experience and knowledge would want him dead right away, he's too much of a threat.

Most of what you said just reiterated what I'd said and ain't much of a critique'. We seem to be on the same page. As to Deific powers, D&G Does mention that Intells do not always have them all. Additionally it is not the Dyvval Source book which first described Devil & Demon lords as having deific powers it was intended for the Nightlands source book and (I think as it has been 10 years since I saw it) the errta that may have had it. They're listed as having allot less than gods but they are listed as having them.

Gods have already gone up vs. Nightlords and lost-(Inti got his booty handed back to him!!!).

Who was Inti again? I can't remember where that part's from, CB2 or something?

Rifts South America II under the Nazcan gods i think.

The NightLords are Classed as being the equivalent of Witches that are as powerful as godling or even full on gods... IE as powerful as the Actual Intelligence of normal witches! Which is a vey scary Realization. A Witch that is as powerful as the Very Alien Intelligences that create witches... So by comparison "The Dark" would have to be 1000X's more powerful than a standard Intelligence!

Godlings, sure. Only the strongest gods are the equivalent of your average alien intelligence. Nightlords are really only a match for minor gods (basically heroic, possibly epic realms). They're certainly not anywhere near an alien intelligence. Yes, they're better than your average witch, but they were already powerful sorcerers to begin with. Sorcerers can get pretty powerful on their own with the right spells (shadow self in bletherad, return from the grave from mystic russia, lord magi, geo-immortals, astral mages). It's also not standard witchery, this is more along the lines of the major pact where you merge body and soul with something. The nightlords aren't even on the level of netherlords, your standard (even double cost) deevil/demon lords can create witches. Nightlords just create Night Priests, something not really on par with your standard priest either.

Seems that we're still on the same page. You say that the NL are as powerful as godlings, and I say that that is about the same level of power as well. They have more M/SDC but are just as powerful but When I said full on gods I ment the lower classed ones, not the higher ones.

Which is about what he was desribed as quite possably being, After all The Dark is said to be one of the Old Ones (You know, Thoths ye' Old Crew).

Where did it say that again? Was that one of the list of rumours as to the Dark's origin in Nightlands? Heck, for all we know, the portal to the dark is the equivilent to Azlum being a portal to the light or something.

Yup, it's "said to be"... which equals a rumour... which is Just how I phrased it to. And as to where it's found well, I think it's safe to say that based on all of your other latter comments you already knew the answere to that. No need for sarcasm... Especally since it's missplaced.

FYI-The Nightlords are likely VERY much aware of Thoths existance (Like, 99.999999999999999% aware) and would Likely try and bone out of such a fight. It's also likely that with 10,000+ years of Nightlord activity on Earth Thoth (Who may even have helped seal them away during that War of "Light & Dark" for all we know) is Equaly likely aware of Them.

I'm sure they know some vague stuff about him (like being a god, inventor of various spells) but he's pretty mysterious and not involved to our knowledge, in Nightbane. They probably know far more about Hades than they know about Thoth.

I'm sure they (The Night Lords) know of him... They're over 10,000 years old and aren't in the dark. These guys are about power, and power desire much more power, and knowledge begets that power when one is a mage. And again, Thoth was active on Earth as he IS part (A large part) of the Egyption Panth! So in that, you are very wrong unless you wish to define that the world Nightbane has a totally differing past from the rest of Certain (Not all) earths in the PB megaverse and just happened to end up with the exact same futures events, (In other words to say #### with the butterfly effect... Which is okay with me) than your dead on right and under that set of rules I can see that you're right that the NL wouldn't know much of Thoth.... But considering Many spells use Thoth in their wordings it's still a hard sell.
Then you'd have a good point.

SplYnnY would have a VERY tough fight on with good all 'BaLL Nezzy' Molech mono-E-Mono (which I hear is a Kissing disease ).

Eh, Splynn's even less likely to do a 1 on 1 fight than Thoth. Unlike him, he doesn't have a pantheon of do-gooders to resurrect him if he's accidentally killed, nor the option to fight battles via manifestation. If Moloch showed up in the preserves and started burning everything he'd just port out of there and swarm him with minions. Since he and Thoth are buddies (and I believe so are the pantheons of Dragonwright, or at least Styphon via Styphathal possibly, it gets them worshippers) attacking Splynn is just not a good plan.

I actually pitted the Nightlords up against Splynn... I lost.
10 Nightlords ended up getting exsposed to the light of the Azylem, went good, went insane, lost a Smack of MDC and ran off into the woods of the Amazon rain forrests. Slpynny just said "Who the Fk was that?" as it all happened real fast. Then he went back to his daily life with a look of "Things that make you go Hummm" on his face/errr Eye Ball.
And again, it seem your just mostly in agreement with what I said.

NOW AN ELIGHTENED IMMORTAL WOULD KICK ALL THE NightLords @$$3$ cuz they're just TeH BomB!

EIs are a tad overrated. Final refinement ones are pretty scary, but up until then, they have abilities which are like enhanced versions of chi spells or something like that.

And Final Refinement is the only version I'm in referance to. My comment was ment as an inside joke harkening to the "Who would win, Nightlords or EI" Thread. In That case I'd give it to the EI as they're 10x's the power of a Nightlord at that stage (And yes, we always use the rifter info in such disccusions).

Reincarnation is really just not as much as it's cracked up to be. You can't reincarnate if someone traps your soul in a soul jar/pool/harvester/drinking rune weapon. Plus you could prevent an EI from killing themself and enslave them with various magics.
Heck, even if you power them up with those mega-stats given to them in the rifter, it's very possible to deal with them.

In a one on one fight, the guy that dies is the loser, Reincarnation is a null and void issue as you've still lost even If you can come back, and Win/lose is the object of the thread... Not who can come back. So Yeah your right about that but, It never played into what I said in the first place.

[Steeler49er]

But ultimately, how many Nightlords are there? A big enough army of them would be devastaing, even to a pantheon.

thousands of them (One fer every major city in the world, +Some minor cities are controlled & some control Regons). They were meassured at over 1,000. in the NMB
But many pantheons have a Large number of powerful lesser gods, godlike beings, and demi-gods... Considering that full on gods are powerful enough to go toe to toe with a dozen nightlords and the Biggest ones (Like Zeus) can take on 100+NL, that would cut down on the over all total of Nightlords that the Other gods would have to face. Each of those 'lesser gods' are about equal to a NL one on one. Avatars are a BAD idea fer the NL to use in combat as they're weaker and if they die a chunk of a Night lords power get permanently Hacked! Avatars are best used as a last ditch survival thinggy were in the Night lord Knows that they're Fk-ed and about to die anyways.

Molech on the other hand is a scary dude. He likely has a Bomb Smack of stashed magic weapons and STILL knowns alot of magic (He WAS at one time listed as one of the most Powerful mages on Earth). But most of all is that he can create as Many clones as he wishes w/o the downsides from their deaths... He could create an army of 10,000 clones (fer all we know) and send them down on the pantheon in question if he needed to.
Otherwise he's about as powerful as anyother NL.

[Anthar]

Destroying an entire dimension is not that great a feat depending on which dimension gets destroyed. Dyval, for example can be destroyed by penetrating into Sahtalus citadel and destroying the Soul chamber that powers the citadel. This would be a relatively easy task for a Nightlord to accomplish.

That isn't relatively easy to do in the slightest. Based on the flavour text in Dyval not even Thoth knew about the nature of Dyval until recently (that, or he gets a kick on sending his people out on recon missions to find out stuff he already knows). How exactly do you think a Nightlord would pull it off? Send in some hunters? If they tried to go them self and melt it down, Sahtalus would ANNIHILATE them. Probably literally.

You seriously underestimate the intelligence and creativity of the Nightlords. Without the entity known as the Dark they have secretly infiltrated and taken over virtually every Earth government worth taking over without the general population even realizing what's going on. They have Dopplegangers, Ashmedai and Namtar Hollow men that can infiltrate the Deevil hordes, plus the Nightlord avatars that can be disguised as any deevil. The Nightlord avatars have the same abilities of the Nightlords that allow them to have control over matter and energy that "transcend normal magic and psionic powers".

The Nightlords without their considerable abilities are masters of misinformation so the stories that are known about the Dark could be fabricated to keep other Nightlords in line and strike fear in their enemies that even if they can defeat the Nightlords, the Dark will strike them down.

And as I recall Sahtalus doesn't have any special abilities other than his enormous MDC, magic knowledge and limited Deific abilities, so it is basically a UFC style smackdown between two powerful beings.

[Her0man0]

touche steeler49er, well answered, i change my vote on principle of logic, when your right your right.

It sounds like the gods of light would win hands down unless of course the gods of darkness were to throw in thier hats to the nightlords, in which case anyone could win

Ehh??
O geez I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to shoot you down
I'm very sure that the Nightlords could beat them if under the right circumstances... I didn't mean to come of like a know it all jerk. I hope you didn't take it that way, I could still be way off on my assesment.

Thank you fer the compliment and I'm truely sorry if I sounded rude

dont worry i wasnt offended, i meant what i said, you showed that you have waay more knowlage about the nightlords and the gods than i do.

that being said; i do think that comparing an NL to a godling is underestimating a very powerfull force, the NL dont just have alot of sdc/mdc, they also have thousands of ppe, lots of magic, and reality/matter altering powers.

[Steeler49er]

Well, I was mostly basing off of "=" equals.
They've got MASSIVE god levels of power, but in a head to head those powers are generally pretty much useless Vs. a godling or higher. Many godlings have access to 'impervious to energy' (Imp to the En) and the 'Matter Control" powers of the N-Lords are Utterly dependant on matter... Which in a fight may not always be around.

That said, A Nightspawn Munchkin Ultra tough Nyh-Immortal Player of mine almost got his after life card Punched by a Weak nightlord while on Wormwood (A Bad place fer Nightlords to be, considering that there's little to No Normal matter around) during a one on one Combat session.
In this corner and Hailing from Rifts Kentucky, weighing in at just over 300 Lbs, The girls love him and know him as "Mr. Squishy"... IT's- Krase-The liviiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing Metaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal Blood Blob!

And in this corner of the arena weighing in at Two Hundered and Thirty-Five Pounds, Hailing from the Nightlands of Earth -717, He's Big, He's bad he's Darcib' bak the... "Life... STEALER"


He used the only matter around (The arena floor) to Leathel advantage, Sucked Krase into a hole in the ground and turned it into a 20 tallx10ft thick Cannon made outta Adamantium, transmuted .001Grams of stone into Anti-Matter and BOOM, shot Krases body into Oblivion...
Needless to say that Krases Player (Scott) was impressed.

Five miniutes later, Krase came back--He'd left one of his Blood Plasmoid Fingers in the glove compartment of the Car from which, thanx to a talent he had (Similar to anitomical separation) he regrew and kicked that Night Lord ars.

So, if a Night Lord can Almost take down a Munchkin, A godling Ain't NOTHEN