Energy Field vs Missles.

[Lenwen]

Energy Field can be cast up to 60ft away.

If player A launches 4 mini missles at player B.

Player B casts (in 1 melee action) Energy Field but instead of placing it around himself he places it around the 4 minimissles.

Can this happen or not ?

Please explain your rational on either way you answer .

[Library Ogre]

Energy Field can be cast up to 60ft away.

If player A launches 4 mini missles at player B.

Player B casts (in 1 melee action) Energy Field but instead of placing it around himself he places it around the 4 minimissles.

Can this happen or not ?

Please explain your rational on either way you answer .

I would not allow it... rather, I would allow someone to try, but make it clear that they are likely to fail. While throwing up an energy field around yourself is relatively simple (since you know where you, yourself, are, and the field will last until they get there), throwing one around missiles that are traveling at ~750 feet per second*, and making sure to complete your spell in the 1/15th of a second where they are no more than 60 feet away, and no less than 8 feet away (at which point you're in the force field, and chunky salsa), is not impossible, but it IS quite improbable.


*A little less if they're the 500mph variety, much more if the 1400mph variety

[Lenwen]

Energy Field can be cast up to 60ft away.

If player A launches 4 mini missles at player B.

Player B casts (in 1 melee action) Energy Field but instead of placing it around himself he places it around the 4 minimissles.

Can this happen or not ?

Please explain your rational on either way you answer .

Sure I would allow it and treat it like trying to shoot down the missiles with same penalties to hit.

If the missiles were sent in a straight line from ground based launchers then a better tactic is to just cast it(on a rock or something) at maximum size between you and the missiles so that they detonate against it and you are hopefully outside the blast radius. Versus air attacks not so easy to find an object between you and the attack, so if you can't then throw it on yourself and at least you will take half of whatever damage is left(or less) from the blast radius.

Which begs the other question.

If you cast an Energy field around yourself in mid air. That is the unmovable type of Force field Bubble as it were.

does it stay right where its at an you can walk around inside of the Force Bubble with out having to fly ?

[Grell]

I don't think there's anything saying that Energy Field works like a TK Force Bubble in that it blocks all attacks outgoing and incoming. We've always run it as a forcefield that you could shoot out from, but that would absorb incoming fire.

It's a good idea, but only as good as the GM's interpretation of the spell is.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The was a rule about spells that a mage could parry with a spell.

If the mage anticipated the missile launch, maybe. Roll to strike.

[Balabanto]

The answer is, no. Energy Field cannot be used to surround missiles. If the Energy Field is cast more than 10 feet away from the target and is already there, however, the explosion cannot strike the target by the definition of the widest allowable mini missile radius in the game. Your best bet to stop missiles in a single action is to use a KOTWR Barrier Shield, burn the 55 PPE and cast Wall of Defense. The missiles will stop dead in their tracks, and delay the next volley by at least two actions until your opponent reorients.

If the energy field is hit and destroyed, assume the first missile in the volley to strike it is completely eliminated. Allow Dodge and Roll with it normally for half damage from this point forward. Short, Medium, and Long Range Missiles that are not mini missiles deal more damage. Adjust this interpretation accordingly.

If the Mage has Spinning Blades active, he may also roll to strike. This actively parries all incoming attacks, but to successfully parry a volley of missiles, to guarantee the damage necessary to destroy one, you would have to burn the spell out. However, this also takes two actions and would have to be cast beforehand. This would successfully remove the volley before it reached the necessary radius to strike the mage.

[Lenwen]

The answer is, no. Energy Field cannot be used to surround missiles. If the Energy Field is cast more than 10 feet away from the target and is already there, however, the explosion cannot strike the target by the definition of the widest allowable mini missile radius in the game. Your best bet to stop missiles in a single action is to use a KOTWR Barrier Shield, burn the 55 PPE and cast Wall of Defense. The missiles will stop dead in their tracks, and delay the next volley by at least two actions until your opponent reorients.

If the energy field is hit and destroyed, assume the first missile in the volley to strike it is completely eliminated. Allow Dodge and Roll with it normally for half damage from this point forward. Short, Medium, and Long Range Missiles that are not mini missiles deal more damage. Adjust this interpretation accordingly.

If the Mage has Spinning Blades active, he may also roll to strike. This actively parries all incoming attacks, but to successfully parry a volley of missiles, to guarantee the damage necessary to destroy one, you would have to burn the spell out. However, this also takes two actions and would have to be cast beforehand. This would successfully remove the volley before it reached the necessary radius to strike the mage.

Or simply place Energy field between you an the missle volley.

In Volley's all missles hit the target at the same time. according to Rue.

In Combat, Armor always takes the MD even if there is only 40 MDC left of your armor and your hit with a volley of missles doing 41+ MD. Your armor takes all the damage, saving your life in the process. Regaurdless of the amount of damage vs the amount of Armor left on the armor.

This is called "the G.I. Joe" rule. And it is also in the Rue.

[Balabanto]

A mage would have to have a held action to do this. You can't cast a spell as a parry action.

[Lenwen]

A mage would have to have a held action to do this. You can't cast a spell as a parry action.

Wanna bet ?

[Balabanto]

If you are a Battle Magus, you can Dodge, Roll and Come Up Shooting, if you have Sharpshooting Magic Bolts. So the answer is, no. You cannot actually cast a new defensive spell on an action when it is not your turn. However...this is an offensive action and the spell must be used to attack. Energy Field does not fall under the definition of Magic Bolt. The only spells that do are open attack spells that fire a bolt which requires a roll to hit of Level 5 and below, Throwing Stones, Electric Arc, Lightning Arc, and now Nova Blast (Assuming they're already active) from FOTG. However, on Rifts Earth, that last one one still costs 60 PPE and 2 actions to set up. Nor can you cast any spell which requires two actions to use as a parry attempt. An EXTREMELY lenient GM might allow you to cast Frostblade when it's not your turn and use it to parry a Hand to Hand attack, but I wouldn't.

Otherwise, you're standing there in slow motion trying to parry his stuff at a base d20 roll while all of his bonuses and penalties apply. Could you use that ability to shoot down a missile? Sure you could, but the key here is that it would have to ALREADY be active. And you need to roll a 12. That's what I call just asking for it. Even if you use Spinning Blades, it takes two actions to cast while people are gunning you down. If you are lucky enough to be Battle Magus 7 or Higher, the damage won't hinder you when it hits your armor, but we're still talking about SCADS of MDC.

[Lenwen]

If you are a Battle Magus, you can Dodge, Roll and Come Up Shooting, if you have Sharpshooting Magic Bolts. So the answer is, no. You cannot actually cast a new defensive spell on an action when it is not your turn. However...this is an offensive action and the spell must be used to attack. Energy Field does not fall under the definition of Magic Bolt. The only spells that do are open attack spells that fire a bolt which requires a roll to hit of Level 5 and below, Throwing Stones, Electric Arc, Lightning Arc, and now Nova Blast (Assuming they're already active) from FOTG. However, on Rifts Earth, that last one one still costs 60 PPE and 2 actions to set up. Nor can you cast any spell which requires two actions to use as a parry attempt. An EXTREMELY lenient GM might allow you to cast Frostblade when it's not your turn and use it to parry a Hand to Hand attack, but I wouldn't.

Otherwise, you're standing there in slow motion trying to parry his stuff at a base d20 roll while all of his bonuses and penalties apply. Could you use that ability to shoot down a missile? Sure you could, but the key here is that it would have to ALREADY be active. And you need to roll a 12. That's what I call just asking for it. Even if you use Spinning Blades, it takes two actions to cast while people are gunning you down. If you are lucky enough to be Battle Magus 7 or Higher, the damage won't hinder you when it hits your armor, but we're still talking about SCADS of MDC.

Think Tolkeen War.

What type of Missle Defense system did they have ?



A Domed shield that was activated AFTER missles were already incomming ...

And were not talking mini or short missles here were talking the Big huge gigantic 1400+ MPH fast missles.

So YES .. it is VERY possible to use Energy Field to Parry missles ..

[demos606]

Lenwen, think about the missiles in question for the Tolkeen field to be used against. There are worlds of difference between ICBM and Sidewinders. Tolkeen's "missile shield" was used against missiles fired from hundreds of miles away that took several minutes to arrive on target. They also weren't using energy field for the defense of choice.

In a close combat situation, for personal defense, energy field isn't going to work as a reactive missile defense, though it would work proactively. For city defense it *might* work if you can get it to cover a big enough area (don't believe this is possible however) and had missiles coming from several minutes away.

[Lenwen]

Lenwen, think about the missiles in question for the Tolkeen field to be used against. There are worlds of difference between ICBM and Sidewinders. Tolkeen's "missile shield" was used against missiles fired from hundreds of miles away that took several minutes to arrive on target. They also weren't using energy field for the defense of choice.

In a close combat situation, for personal defense, energy field isn't going to work as a reactive missile defense, though it would work proactively. For city defense it *might* work if you can get it to cover a big enough area (don't believe this is possible however) and had missiles coming from several minutes away.

Some of the missles were actually launched from the staging point of the invasion which took less then 1 minute to arrive.

ALL missles were in fact travelling at 1400+ mph .

[Killer Cyborg]

Energy Field can be cast up to 60ft away.

If player A launches 4 mini missles at player B.

Player B casts (in 1 melee action) Energy Field but instead of placing it around himself he places it around the 4 minimissles.

Can this happen or not ?

Please explain your rational on either way you answer .

Too many "GM's Discretion" factors in that to really say for certain.

RUE does say that bullets and energy attacks cannot be parried, and I'd toss missiles in with that.
They simply move too fast to see coming at you in time to do anything about it (as a rule).

[Balabanto]

Lenwen, think about the missiles in question for the Tolkeen field to be used against. There are worlds of difference between ICBM and Sidewinders. Tolkeen's "missile shield" was used against missiles fired from hundreds of miles away that took several minutes to arrive on target. They also weren't using energy field for the defense of choice.

In a close combat situation, for personal defense, energy field isn't going to work as a reactive missile defense, though it would work proactively. For city defense it *might* work if you can get it to cover a big enough area (don't believe this is possible however) and had missiles coming from several minutes away.

Some of the missles were actually launched from the staging point of the invasion which took less then 1 minute to arrive.

ALL missles were in fact travelling at 1400+ mph .

You are correct in the speed of the missiles. However, in game mechanics, "Less than one minute to arrive" is still less than two melee actions necessary.

Plus, this is a TECHNO-WIZARD ITEM, one of the key elements of which is the spell "Wall of Defense." The scale of the actions on which you are talking about is such that multiple people would be on alert at all times, thus totally negating your argument. There's all sorts of spells linked to that shield, probably including unique ones like "Detect Missile."

[Balabanto]

First off, I think everyone has a valid viewpoint on the matter and everyone will believe what they will. However Balabanto and Demos606 I think you both are wrong and have some what flawed arguements. Except the needing to roll to 'hit' the incoming missiles with your energy field spell, unless it's on a flat trajectory, I'm very much in agreeance with that.

I believe in this instance Lenwen is correct and the idea of using Energy field as defense against incoming missiles. Even if by the letter of the rules its not stated as being possible, I firmly believe it's within the spirit of the rules. Now I can't say I know the minds of the KS or any of the other Palladium books game developers. As I've never met any of them, heck I don't even think I've even been in the same state as them, and I'm certainly not a mind reader. But I don't see anywhere in the RUE or the old RMB stating you can't use a spell or psychic ability to shoot down or counter an enemy missile strike. And since you have enough time to try and dodge or shoot down an incoming missile which takes the same time as casting a low-level spell I don't see why it wouldnt be possible.

However this ultimately boils down to is a GM's call, do you feel it's possible? It's a GM's personal call as it's not specificly stated in the books as being possible or impossible. No amount of debating or what generally passes as debating on internet forums will change that.

It is not within the spirit of the rules to cast a spell when it is not your turn. Period.

[Qev]

Provided that you have at least one free action remaining in the round, you can shoot at an incoming missile; I personally fail to see how throwing a one-action barrier spell at one of the missiles (that just so happens to be wide enough to catch all of them) is any different.

What I find interesting (and somewhat amusing) is that, despite the incoming missiles' speed and small size, someone firing at them with a laser rifle gets absolutely no penalties to hit them.

[Balabanto]

Because you have to pronounce the words of the spell in a firm and forceful manner, and you can't do that when it's not your turn. You're expending PPE in a way that the rules never intended. Period. The only power in the game you can SPECIFICALLY do this with is Telekinetic Force Field. Since Energy Field doesn't specify these same rules, it doesn't work the same way. Psychics are already screwed enough without mages being better at this, too.

[Killer Cyborg]

Provided that you have at least one free action remaining in the round, you can shoot at an incoming missile; I personally fail to see how throwing a one-action barrier spell at one of the missiles (that just so happens to be wide enough to catch all of them) is any different.

I agree.
The rules never mention whether or not you can use a spell as a simo-attack, but I don't see why it would be ruled out as a possibility.

What I find interesting (and somewhat amusing) is that, despite the incoming missiles' speed and small size, someone firing at them with a laser rifle gets absolutely no penalties to hit them.

Do the books actually say that there's no penalties?

[Dog_O_War]

Provided that you have at least one free action remaining in the round, you can shoot at an incoming missile; I personally fail to see how throwing a one-action barrier spell at one of the missiles (that just so happens to be wide enough to catch all of them) is any different.

I agree.
The rules never mention whether or not you can use a spell as a simo-attack, but I don't see why it would be ruled out as a possibility.

Shooting missiles though is different than a simo-attack, so I don't see any "barriers" as a possibility for this.

Except the following.

Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging. Now, this won't come up all that often (probably never), but in the case of a smart projectile, given the type of attack being used (you are throwing a physical barrier in-front of them to run into) I'd give them a chance to dodge this attack (assuming the mage didn't successfully surround them with the field). Not a big chance, but a chance.

What I find interesting (and somewhat amusing) is that, despite the incoming missiles' speed and small size, someone firing at them with a laser rifle gets absolutely no penalties to hit them.

Do the books actually say that there's no penalties?

They offer no bonuses or penalties beyond the -1 for a moving target, as well as an additional -1 for every increment of 50mph the target is moving at. So that's only a -11 for shooting down the slowest-moving mini-missile there is.

Oh, and the "head-sized targets are -3 to hit" rule might as well be applied as well. So that's only a -14. But other than this, no penalties!

[Dog_O_War]

Oh yeah, as a more serious side-note on shooting down missiles, you're much much better off with a weapon capable of bursting on an area (which most laser rifles do not qualify for), as you automatically hit, thus avoiding the -14 to -31 penalty for shooting down mini-missiles. I'd say that this is the most effective means of missile-destruction (as far as the rules are concerned).


As an additional side - a mage casting the barrier-spell as an offensive manuever against missiles is better off just using it on himself and riding out the damage with the GI-Joe rule. Even if he already knows his group doesn't use that rule.

[Killer Cyborg]

Provided that you have at least one free action remaining in the round, you can shoot at an incoming missile; I personally fail to see how throwing a one-action barrier spell at one of the missiles (that just so happens to be wide enough to catch all of them) is any different.

I agree.
The rules never mention whether or not you can use a spell as a simo-attack, but I don't see why it would be ruled out as a possibility.

Shooting missiles though is different than a simo-attack, so I don't see any "barriers" as a possibility for this.

You're making an attack in response to an incoming attack.
Whether or not it's technically a simo-attack is debatable, but it would be a boring debate.

Except the following.

Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging.

No, they don't.
They're just unguided rockets unless otherwise specified, as of RUE.
And even pre-RUE, mini-missiles were never guided in any way.

[Dog_O_War]

Except the following.

Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging.

No, they don't.
They're just unguided rockets unless otherwise specified, as of RUE.
And even pre-RUE, mini-missiles were never guided in any way.

Meanwhile, an NE-010 Destructo Drone flies in and destroys your arguement.

[Shark_Force]

Except the following.

Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging.

No, they don't.
They're just unguided rockets unless otherwise specified, as of RUE.
And even pre-RUE, mini-missiles were never guided in any way.

Meanwhile, an NE-010 Destructo Drone flies in and destroys your arguement.

not really.

1) that would be otherwise specified.
2) that would be something other than a mini-missile.

[Qev]

They offer no bonuses or penalties beyond the -1 for a moving target, as well as an additional -1 for every increment of 50mph the target is moving at. So that's only a -11 for shooting down the slowest-moving mini-missile there is.

Oh, and the "head-sized targets are -3 to hit" rule might as well be applied as well. So that's only a -14. But other than this, no penalties!

Aha! I missed that bit.

Although it could be argued that, since the missiles are flying at you, from your perspective they don't have any apparent motion...

Okay, I'm reaching.

[Dog_O_War]

Except the following.

Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging.

No, they don't.
They're just unguided rockets unless otherwise specified, as of RUE.
And even pre-RUE, mini-missiles were never guided in any way.

Meanwhile, an NE-010 Destructo Drone flies in and destroys your arguement.

not really.

1) that would be otherwise specified.
2) that would be something other than a mini-missile.

Yes really. If you read my post, I never said mini-missiles. I said that "Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging". Regardless of whether a mini-missile could dodge (who knows what kind of custom things an Operator might pump out?), I never specified what missiles could dodge, only that missiles don't necessarily fly staight like a bullet. Even an unguided rocket rarely flies as predictably as a bullet does.

[Lenwen]

Except the following.

Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging.

No, they don't.
They're just unguided rockets unless otherwise specified, as of RUE.
And even pre-RUE, mini-missiles were never guided in any way.

Meanwhile, an NE-010 Destructo Drone flies in and destroys your arguement.

not really.

1) that would be otherwise specified.
2) that would be something other than a mini-missile.

Yes really. If you read my post, I never said mini-missiles. I said that "Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging". Regardless of whether a mini-missile could dodge (who knows what kind of custom things an Operator might pump out?), I never specified what missiles could dodge, only that missiles don't necessarily fly staight like a bullet. Even an unguided rocket rarely flies as predictably as a bullet does.

Mini missles = Dumb missles they can no more divert thier course from being fired then a bullet could. According to Rue.

[Dog_O_War]

Meanwhile, an NE-010 Destructo Drone flies in and destroys your arguement.

not really.

1) that would be otherwise specified.
2) that would be something other than a mini-missile.

Yes really. If you read my post, I never said mini-missiles. I said that "Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging". Regardless of whether a mini-missile could dodge (who knows what kind of custom things an Operator might pump out?), I never specified what missiles could dodge, only that missiles don't necessarily fly staight like a bullet. Even an unguided rocket rarely flies as predictably as a bullet does.

Mini missles = Dumb missles they can no more divert thier course from being fired then a bullet could. According to Rue.

You're missing the point being made, and instead focusing only on one part.

[Killer Cyborg]

If you read my post, [b]I never said mini-missiles[b]. I said that "Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging". Regardless of whether a mini-missile could dodge (who knows what kind of custom things an Operator might pump out?), I never specified what missiles could dodge, only that missiles don't necessarily fly staight like a bullet. Even an unguided rocket rarely flies as predictably as a bullet does.

1. You just tried to demonstrate how you didn't say mini-missiles by showing how you did indeed say mini-missiles.
2. If you read your post, you said "they don't travel in a straight line," which is NOT the same as "missiles don't necessarily fly in a straight line."
3. If you read your post, you did indeed specify; you said "even mini-missiles."

Whatever you meant to say, I addressed what you actually DID say.
Because all I can do is read posts, not minds.

[Lenwen]

Meanwhile, an NE-010 Destructo Drone flies in and destroys your arguement.

not really.

1) that would be otherwise specified.
2) that would be something other than a mini-missile.

Yes really. If you read my post, I never said mini-missiles. I said that "Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging". Regardless of whether a mini-missile could dodge (who knows what kind of custom things an Operator might pump out?), I never specified what missiles could dodge, only that missiles don't necessarily fly staight like a bullet. Even an unguided rocket rarely flies as predictably as a bullet does.

Mini missles = Dumb missles they can no more divert thier course from being fired then a bullet could. According to Rue.

You're missing the point being made, and instead focusing only on one part.

Sorry I must side with KC on this one. I can not read minds, but I can debat what you write.

[Dog_O_War]

If you read my post, [b]I never said mini-missiles[b]. I said that "Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging". Regardless of whether a mini-missile could dodge (who knows what kind of custom things an Operator might pump out?), I never specified what missiles could dodge, only that missiles don't necessarily fly staight like a bullet. Even an unguided rocket rarely flies as predictably as a bullet does.

1. You just tried to demonstrate how you didn't say mini-missiles by showing how you did indeed say mini-missiles.
2. If you read your post, you said "they don't travel in a straight line," which is NOT the same as "missiles don't necessarily fly in a straight line."
3. If you read your post, you did indeed specify; you said "even mini-missiles."

Whatever you meant to say, I addressed what you actually DID say.
Because all I can do is read posts, not minds.

Then I was unclear.
I meant to say that all missiles do not necessarily travel in a straight line (like a bullet), and that it is possible for some of these missiles (like the previously mentioned NE-010) are capable of dodging, though as a GM I personally would give a smart-missile a chance to dodge as well because it does self-navigate, and a physical barrier is something that this missile-type would otherwise try to navigate around in order to hit its target.

Is this clear?

[Lenwen]

If you read my post, [b]I never said mini-missiles[b]. I said that "Missiles (even mini-missiles) aren't exactly "bullets" - they don't travel in a straight line, and may even have the possibility of dodging". Regardless of whether a mini-missile could dodge (who knows what kind of custom things an Operator might pump out?), I never specified what missiles could dodge, only that missiles don't necessarily fly staight like a bullet. Even an unguided rocket rarely flies as predictably as a bullet does.

1. You just tried to demonstrate how you didn't say mini-missiles by showing how you did indeed say mini-missiles.
2. If you read your post, you said "they don't travel in a straight line," which is NOT the same as "missiles don't necessarily fly in a straight line."
3. If you read your post, you did indeed specify; you said "even mini-missiles."

Whatever you meant to say, I addressed what you actually DID say.
Because all I can do is read posts, not minds.

Then I was unclear.
I meant to say that all missiles do not necessarily travel in a straight line (like a bullet), and that it is possible for some of these missiles (like the previously mentioned NE-010) are capable of dodging, though as a GM I personally would give a smart-missile a chance to dodge as well because it does self-navigate, and a physical barrier is something that this missile-type would otherwise try to navigate around in order to hit its target.

Is this clear?

So tell me then. How do these self navigating missles .. know when to naviagate around an invisible force field ? The field is not detectable by any Technological ability .

There in lies the fault of your debat.

[Dog_O_War]

So tell me then. How do these self navigating missles .. know when to naviagate around an invisible force field ? The field is not detectable by any Technological ability .

There in lies the fault of your debat.

The fault is yours. The field is visible (a semi-transparent bubble of blue-white light), and secondly, where does it say in the spell description that the field is undetectable, by technology or otherwise?

[Lenwen]

So tell me then. How do these self navigating missles .. know when to naviagate around an invisible force field ? The field is not detectable by any Technological ability .

There in lies the fault of your debat.

The fault is yours. The field is visible (a semi-transparent bubble of blue-white light), and secondly, where does it say in the spell description that the field is undetectable, by technology or otherwise?

As the person who is claiming that tech could in fact detect it .

Its your turn to come up with an explanation as to how the missle would be able to..

[Dog_O_War]

So tell me then. How do these self navigating missles .. know when to naviagate around an invisible force field ? The field is not detectable by any Technological ability .

There in lies the fault of your debat.

The fault is yours. The field is visible (a semi-transparent bubble of blue-white light), and secondly, where does it say in the spell description that the field is undetectable, by technology or otherwise?

As the person who is claiming that tech could in fact detect it .

Its your turn to come up with an explanation as to how the missle would be able to..

Well, for one - it's visible. For two, it's energy.

[Lenwen]

So tell me then. How do these self navigating missles .. know when to naviagate around an invisible force field ? The field is not detectable by any Technological ability .

There in lies the fault of your debat.

The fault is yours. The field is visible (a semi-transparent bubble of blue-white light), and secondly, where does it say in the spell description that the field is undetectable, by technology or otherwise?

As the person who is claiming that tech could in fact detect it .

Its your turn to come up with an explanation as to how the missle would be able to..

Well, for one - it's visible. For two, it's energy.

Its only visible when you hit it with something .. its Semi Transparent.. And two .. how you detect various other types of energy is kewl an such but .. Lets be real about it the only way that missle is going to detect that Magical Force Field is if each missle comes equiped with a strapped on Dogboy ..

[Dog_O_War]

Its only visible when you hit it with something .. its Semi Transparent.. And two .. how you detect various other types of energy is kewl an such but .. Lets be real about it the only way that missle is going to detect that Magical Force Field is if each missle comes equiped with a strapped on Dogboy ..

Semi-transparent is still visible.

Also, FIREBALL! You cannot "be real" about magic. Or dogboys. Or mini-missiles. They are fake constructs that are governed by the rules presented. Unless the rules presented state that this shield does not come up as some type of energy signature, then it does. Period. End of story.

[Lenwen]

Its only visible when you hit it with something .. its Semi Transparent.. And two .. how you detect various other types of energy is kewl an such but .. Lets be real about it the only way that missle is going to detect that Magical Force Field is if each missle comes equiped with a strapped on Dogboy ..

Semi-transparent is still visible.

Also, FIREBALL! You cannot "be real" about magic. Or dogboys. Or mini-missiles. They are fake constructs that are governed by the rules presented. Unless the rules presented state that this shield does not come up as some type of energy signature, then it does. Period. End of story.

Glass is semi transparent. Do you honestly think a missle is going to be able to pick THAT up an manuver around it ?

And also if were on a "Role Playing" thread .. do you REALLY .. have to stat .. You cannot be real about magic.

Especially when the topic of the conversation is about magic vs Missles ..

Unless you simple choose to give up your side of the debat because you can not according to the Rules of the game see how that missle can pick up that Force Field with out having a Dog Boy strapped to it .. haha .

[Killer Cyborg]

I was unclear.
I meant to say that all missiles do not necessarily travel in a straight line (like a bullet), and that it is possible for some of these missiles (like the previously mentioned NE-010) are capable of dodging, though as a GM I personally would give a smart-missile a chance to dodge as well because it does self-navigate, and a physical barrier is something that this missile-type would otherwise try to navigate around in order to hit its target.

Is this clear?

Yes.

Comments:
-I don't know the ballistic differences between rockets and bullets, so I can't really comment on how much of a straight line they travel in relation to each other.
-I don't know that drones count as missiles.
-If the the Field is a wall in front of the missile, I'd give smart-missiles a chance to move around it.
But since the field can be (and I believe usually IS) made as a sphere around the target, this generally wouldn't be an option.

[Dog_O_War]

Its only visible when you hit it with something .. its Semi Transparent.. And two .. how you detect various other types of energy is kewl an such but .. Lets be real about it the only way that missle is going to detect that Magical Force Field is if each missle comes equiped with a strapped on Dogboy ..

Semi-transparent is still visible.

Also, FIREBALL! You cannot "be real" about magic. Or dogboys. Or mini-missiles. They are fake constructs that are governed by the rules presented. Unless the rules presented state that this shield does not come up as some type of energy signature, then it does. Period. End of story.

Glass is semi transparent. Do you honestly think a missle is going to be able to pick THAT up an manuver around it ?

Yes. Unless they used windex that day. On a serious note, if you can see it with your naked eye (which you can), then so can the missile.

And also if were on a "Role Playing" thread .. do you REALLY .. have to stat .. You cannot be real about magic.

Especially when the topic of the conversation is about magic vs Missles ..

Apparently I did, as you insisted to "be real" about it.

Unless you simple choose to give up your side of the debat because you can not according to the Rules of the game see how that missle can pick up that Force Field with out having a Dog Boy strapped to it .. haha .

I did post how the missile can see the force field according to the rules. You should also note that this barrier is especially visible at night, because it is also light.

[Dog_O_War]

-I don't know that drones count as missiles.

The drone is classified as a smart-missile.

really though, that's what a smart missile would be too if it were, well, smarter...

[Killer Cyborg]

-I don't know that drones count as missiles.

The drone is classified as a smart-missile.

really though, that's what a smart missile would be too if it were, well, smarter...

Hm.
Weird.

[Lenwen]

How did the missle .. Detect the energy field now then ?

[Dog_O_War]

How did the missle .. Detect the energy field now then ?

It saw it, because it's visible. It "radared" it because it's a physical barrier.

[Lenwen]

How did the missle .. Detect the energy field now then ?

It saw it, because it's visible. It "radared" it because it's a physical barrier.

[Balabanto]

Well, assuming Dog of War is correct, then the artificial construction part of his argument means roll a modified 12. That's it. No penalties for MPH, because you're shooting at a large number of targets, but you roll a modified 12 to shoot the missiles down.

Nonetheless, you can't cast a spell when it's not your action, so that part of the argument is irrelevant. Otherwise, why bother? Just cast Armor Bizarre when you see the missiles function. As soon as he locks his sights on you, he makes a horror factor test. That's why it's illegal to do things like this unless it's stated in the power description.

[Killer Cyborg]

How did the missle .. Detect the energy field now then ?

Probably the same way that smart-missiles detect any sort of wall or other obstacle, presumably radar of some sort for uncontrolled smart-missiles, and cameras for remote-controlled drones.

[Dog_O_War]

Well, assuming Dog of War is correct, then the artificial construction part of his argument means roll a modified 12. That's it. No penalties for MPH, because you're shooting at a large number of targets, but you roll a modified 12 to shoot the missiles down.

Actually, the missile rules also state that you can only target one missile in a volley (or two if your GM allows you to have 2 attacks to shoot down missiles). That is, it does not matter if it's 1 or 100, you still have the same -14 to -31 penalty because you can only target one.

Nonetheless, you can't cast a spell when it's not your action, so that part of the argument is irrelevant. Otherwise, why bother? Just cast Armor Bizarre when you see the missiles function. As soon as he locks his sights on you, he makes a horror factor test. That's why it's illegal to do things like this unless it's stated in the power description.

Also apart of the missile rules is that you can cast a spell (as an attack against the missiles), even if it's not your turn, as long as you do so with an attack that very same round.

[Balabanto]

Well, technically, the MPH is where you get the 12, so let me correct myself on that. Joe Mini-Missile, which is what we usually talk about, carries a -10 penalty for moving at 500 MPH, and a -1 for the base. That's 11. So, assuming that you're not shooting wild, that's the lowest you can get, if you have sharpshooting.

If you don't have sharpshooting, you're under heavy fire (I would consider Missiles Heavy Fire), so that's -17. If you don't consider Missiles heavy fire, though, that's a 12.

But, casting a spell? Unless you're a Battle Magus, which has the thing that you can't be hurried while doing so, you probably can't take this action. And even then, that follows Nekira's somewhat hedgy interpretation of an ambiguously written phrase.

I don't think "Attack available" covers that.

[dark brandon]

By the rules, I don't know.

In our games, it couldn't happen. One of the benifits of psionics over magic is the ability to "parry" with them, and this would be ruled in that manor. So...probably not. Of course in our game we have things like "held actions"...and you pretty much have to do like in D&D and call out what you're waiting for. In this case for missles to be launched. Then the mage can get a chance to block with his spells with it. I'm also in agreeance that you can shoot out of an energy field unlike the TKFF power.

I also think EF can move.

One of my favorite tactics when I play a mage or psionic character against Missile wielding opponents is to place a TKFF or energy field just in front of the missile port...so when they fire a missile, the shield takes the damage, but the person firing the weapon is almost always within blast radius and thus takes a whole smut load of damage.