Balabanto wrote:Which are useless! The moment combat starts, this PC has to RUN AND HIDE. There's nothing else they can do. Either this character is the "Star' of every adventure, or they're USELESS in every adventure. This OCC is not BALANCED or FUN for players. And if there's even one combat oriented character in the group, either they're not going to be happy, or this PC is not going to be happy. If you lose half your actions for being shapeshifted, the moment combat starts, if you don't unshift, you die. If you unshift, your cover is blown, and you die.
Life isn't fair doesn't matter here. Construction of fun scenarios for ALL the PC's, however, does. From a GM's perspective, this OCC blows.
I disagree. Only in adventures that are either pure combat or pure "other" will this character be unfun. In typical games you should have both instances...times for adventure and times of combat. Beyond that, is there anything keeping this character from picking up a laser rifle and shooting it (IE can they get WPs?). If not, then they are about average in combat, because most OCC's shoot with the same exact bonuses and penalties equvillant to their level.
Also, except for the normal mage penalties, can they still wear armor? What kind of piloting skills can they get, what about pilot related?
They CAN wear armor. However, it does not go with them when they change. It really doesn't SAY what happens to the armor.
Not only that, but no matter how you slice it, this class is not as powerful as a Tattooed Man.
Balabanto wrote:They CAN wear armor. However, it does not go with them when they change. It really doesn't SAY what happens to the armor.
Not only that, but no matter how you slice it, this class is not as powerful as a Tattooed Man.
I really can't comment because I haven't seen the class. A TTman is pretty awesome, but I don't think they're "all that". It'd come down to skills really.
"We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine And the machine is bleeding to death The sun has fallen down And the billboards are all leering And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles ...I open up my wallet And it's full of blood "~~Godspeed you black emperor.
Yeah, but that just proves my point that it's not worth it. Sure, the squirrel is MDC, but with the way armor has been revised, if the character gets into combat, the best thing for it is never to use any of it's abilities. The class should be a kind of cool shapeshifty class that beats people up as large animals and sneaks around as small animals, not a character that's more worthless than a Vagabond in every single way.
You can't cast spells. You can shapechange into normal animals with no supernatural strength. You lose half your actions when you do this. So you now are less effective than a Rogue Scholar in combat as a Grizzly Bear. You get a few psionic abilities and can take more as you go up in level. You can shapechange into other humans, but you still get only half your actions.
Here's the kicker. You get almost nothing for skills, a couple WPs, and...
An XP chart that's higher than Tattooed Man.
WHAT? That's right, it costs 2700 XP to get to second level in this horror. If ever there was a justification for O.C.C. abortion, this one is it. All I have to do is use my special abilities, and I'm less powerful than a Vagabond! With a Tattooed Man Plus experience point chart. There's only 300 XP between me and a Dragon Juicer. Can someone tell me what the justification was for this?
So I took a harder look at the class. Lets see what they get. A very wide and encompassing shapechange that covers animals, humans, d-bees and monsters. Since it doesn't say they lose mode of transport when they change into animals then they probably get to fly like the eagle they can turn into, or swim or burrow or whatever. They get Super Psionics! 28 skills to start and a decent amount during progression. Access to all physical, espionage, rogue and tech skills making them very formidable spies/assassins. Lots of bonuses, stats and abilities that take their trust/intimidate/seduce skills into the godly range so that they could probably bamboozle Emporer Prosek himself into revealing secrets. Changes H.P./S.D.C. to M.D.C. and gives them bio-regen. And the biggest plus of all, they are listed that they can be any race, so if you really want supernatural strength pick a race that can meet the requirements and has supernatural strength.
So all that to make them one hell of a super spy/assassin that's tough and has the versatility of many race choices. Yeah I can see why they suck...
Sounds like an excellent OCC to me. And I can see why they'd get that high of an XP Table with all those special Abilities.
Which are useless! The moment combat starts, this PC has to RUN AND HIDE. There's nothing else they can do. Either this character is the "Star' of every adventure, or they're USELESS in every adventure. This OCC is not BALANCED or FUN for players. And if there's even one combat oriented character in the group, either they're not going to be happy, or this PC is not going to be happy. If you lose half your actions for being shapeshifted, the moment combat starts, if you don't unshift, you die. If you unshift, your cover is blown, and you die.
Life isn't fair doesn't matter here. Construction of fun scenarios for ALL the PC's, however, does. From a GM's perspective, this OCC blows.
Being the PC in question and seeing the problems with the OCC firsthand is is this.
1) The cost to be able to shapeshift is way to high for what it gives you. The half action thing is very painful but the fact that skills are at half is very crippling for any non-combat things you want to do as a spy/assassin. Also the PPE cost and duration of shifting into a humaniod for is very high...it isn't till about probably 4th level you can us it to effectively inflitrate a group for anything but a hit and smash job.
2) Turning into a large animal for combat purpose is useless against most opponents. Fighting against people with MDC armor or supernatural creatures is just very useless. And I strongly disagree giving bear the strength to suddenly rip though a battle tank.
3)The exp. chart is ridiculous for what you get...especialy since the little you do get is useless till you do get levels.
Now that being said I should have probably played a d-bee race(though I reallky can't think of many d-bee races that get high MA and PB that get supernatural strength that can take a ooc).
Though to fix the class I said get rid of the 1/2 actions and 1/2 skill percentages in a alternative form and allow them to assume the shape of any animal there is including the non-native to eath and mutant animals....and possibly reduce the exp chart.
I find inuit and eskimo magic to be the worst. The exception is the Netbook for canada, which is a billion times better.
Balabanto wrote:Well, something called The Devastator should Devastate things. 1d6x10 couldn't devastate your mother in Rifts.
amodernheathen wrote:If, in one posting, I can increase the hellish chaos of even a single planet seven-fold, then I believe that I have done my duty as a Game Master to the widows and orphans of that world. By increasing their number. Drastically.
The main gypsy beguiler issue is that I cannot, absolutely cannot see how this thing is better than classes with lesser xp charts. If I try to be an LLW, I am better off. If I try to be a Battle MAgus, I'm better off. If I try to be a unique race with no OCC and just base RCC bonuses, I am better off than playing this. For 300 XP more, a Dragon Hatchling casts spells, is a major psionic, and shapeshifts into anything while still being a dragon. That's the REAL reason this class is broken.
csbioborg wrote:one thing that has been a source of great debate is whether a conjuer from say wormwood can conjure its native lifeforms. ALso dinosaurs are not imaginary and are mdc in rifts so why not.
I asked a very simular question to this up on the main Rifts page. It is implyed that small dinosuars can be conjured, Dinos are MDC creatures, but no PPE cost is given for the summoning of MDC creatures. So how do ya'll play them?
csbioborg wrote:one thing that has been a source of great debate is whether a conjuer from say wormwood can conjure its native lifeforms. ALso dinosaurs are not imaginary and are mdc in rifts so why not.
Ha! What's "imaginary" in Rifts?!
Unicorns, dragons, demons, fairies, TW flamethrowers, vampires and werewolves.... yah... no imaginary stuff here..
I find that like 'cute' in the Conjurer rules.
-Rifter6
My interpretation was that it couldn't just be something the Conjurer made up in his head " i conjure a giant cockroach with 16 tenticles all with spikes on the end and a stinger coming off the end", kind of thing. But anything that is a "real" creature in Rifts would be okay as long as it met the other conditions.
