Weapons in AtB

[wildhood]

I wanted to use Black Powder & Western Weapons from Transdimensional TMNT Book on pgs 62-66.

[Rali]

What type of weapons do you normally envision being available in your AtB campaigns. Obsiously there are those listed in the books but what else? Are the guns futurisitic? Simple and retro? Pre-Death military?

The majority of the weapons in AtB are similar to those you would find today. The only groups that would have regular access to high-tech weaponry would be those who have maintained them from before the Death, have found military stockpiles that survived the decades (Yehcat), or those who have been able to rebuild the industrial know how to produce them again (The Empire of Humanity).

Most of the common weapons in the game will be the product of one of the weapons manufactures that have popped up in Cardania, Gatorland, or elsewhere.

Keep in mind that the size level of your character will determine what firearms you can use.

[glitterboy2098]

i'd say many of the more robust weapons from today could easily have been preserved into the post-crash era. the Ak-47, for example, is likely to remain a popular weapon throughout the world for as long as anyone still make's the gun and ammo. and given it's fairly simple all stamped metal components, that's likely to be for a long time to come. (not to mention it's sheer durability means any in existance will stay in existance for quite a while..) one should expect to find lovingly maintained pre-crash hunting rifles (probably bolt actions) in most communities, though the ammo for such are likely to be hoarded as something more precious than gold.
muzzleloaders, pre-crash or otherwise, should be popular. making black powder is a fairly simple process when you know the right mix, and you can make your own ammo, either by casting your own lead balls, or by making widebore shotguns and loading them with scrapmetal.

i agree that pre-crash higher tech weapons should be limited to those with access to military caches or higher tech production capablities. and i don't just mean energy guns and such. M-16's, M-4's, MP-5's, P-90's, M-203's, rocket launchers, etc... all of these need a degree of manufacturing capability and regular maintenece that most groups wouldn't be able to obtain. thus they should be fairly rare. (this makes a great reward for palyers though. finding an old arms cache with some M-4's with M-203's and a few crates of ammo would be like a fantasy adventuring party finding a dragons hoard. if you use it as trade goods you could get lots of bucks, or you could use it, at which point you've got some pretty potent weapons...so long as they function...)

[wildhood]

I wanted do my game like that TV show Hawkeye or like the Patriot (starring Mel Gibson), my characters are like a tribe of Native Americans, Scouts or Native American trained fighters using Muzzle loaders, Tomahawks.

[glitterboy2098]

In my campaigns, firearms are pretty rare. I guess it really depends on where you're running your campaign, but I'd agree with Rali and glitterboy2098, but take it even a step further - only larger powers (EoH, Cardania, Americorp, possibly Imperial Mexico, etc.) that have industrial development have them - most other places, people are working with unreliable, scavenged and piecemeal weapons, or, if they have traded with one of the industrial nations/groups, both guns and ammo are rare and valuable.
Most people use melee weapons and bows/crossbows.
Energy/'futuristic' weapons are almost non-existent, which is part of why EoH is so powerful and scary.
I need to incorporate black powder, that's a great idea, thanks wildhood. Time to get out Trans-d.

actually, i think your not too far what what i'm thinking.
the typical "wilderness" community is going to get by with bows/crossbows, the occasional scratchbuilt blackpowder weapon*, and maybe a few pre-crash relics.**
the closer you are to one of the major powerblocks, the more likely you are to see the stuff from the books. most of the cardania and americorp gear from the books, IIRC, was available for sale. trading (mostly using goods, like food or crafts) would allow communities closer to these places to get ahold of a few weapons and a decent supply of ammunition.

likewise if the community is close to some pre-crash ruins, one should expect to see not only a greater number of pre-crash relics in use (in varing degress of functioning, anyway), but also a supply of newer stuff if close to a major powerbloc (trade in relics being very lucrative, IMO). likewise those closer to old ruins should have a greater variety of scratchbuilt weapons, made using the junk they salvaged but wasn't worth trading or using as is.

*'scratchbuilt blackpowder weapons' in the sense of that BP is fairly easy to make, using as it does fairly common chemicals, and finding bits of pipe to use as a barrel wouldn't be too hard. such scratchbuilts are likely to be heavy "emplaced" weapons used for defense of a town, rather than portable, but you could make a 'blunderbuss' using scrap easy enough... more show than bite though. and lets not forget treecannons and such. and it doesn't have to be guns either. communities with access to a steady supply of oil, gasoline, or other flammable material could make simple flamethrowers and molotov's, and things like crossbows and catapults could also be made "junkyard wars" style

**mostly i'm thinking a handful of boltaction hunting rifle, though pre-crash made muzzleloading or breech loading BP rifles would be popular but rare. i'd suspect that pre-crash rifles and pistyols in wilderness communities owuld have run out of the original ammo types, and had their cratridges refilled with BP and unjacketed lead rounds. good for hunting, not much else. my suggested modifications for such ammo:

Black Powder modified Pre-crash ammunition. this ammunition is the result of reusing pre-crash casings for relic weapopns. lacking the ability to produce copper jacketed rounds and smokeless powders, many communities improvise and replaced these with homemade black powder propellants and unjacketed cast lead minie balls. this ammunition is less powerful than the pre-crashtypes, and carries an increased risk of fouling due to powder residue and lead stripping in the barrel.
Range: reduce by 1/2. (black powder is less powerful a propellant than smokeless powders. and cannot propell the round as fast or as far.)
Damage: reduce the damage by one dice type, due to the slower projectile velocity.
Special: due to powder residue and the fact that lead will be despositied in the barrel with each shot, the weapon has a greater chance of being damaged. on a roll of a natural 1, the weapon has jammed, has a dud round, or other problem (GM's choice) and needs to be cleared. rapid fire weapons being fired in bursts (such as assualt rfles or machineguns) suffer this problem on a roll of a natural 1 or 2 when firing bursts. the weapon must be cleaned regularly. one that has not been so maintained will suffer a problem on a roll of a natural 1, or 2, (1, 2, or 3 when firing bursts) with a natural 1 resulting in damage to the weapon that renders it completely inoperable.
Cost: one quarter (1/4th) the cost of conventional ammunition for the weapon. blackpowder and lead are comparitively cheap compared to what their replacing.
for example, a pistol that did 3D6 S.D. with a range of 600 feet using normal ammunition would do 3D4 S.D. with a range of 300 feet using black powder converted ammunition.

this sort of option allows for NPC's (or down on their luck players) to afford a decent supply of ammo, but at a resulting drop in effectiveness.

[wildhood]

Ever here about Bellie-Bows fun for hole family & easy to used even a child can shot it.

[glitterboy2098]

i'm assuming you meant the Gastraphetes type of crossbow.

i'd think the simple medieval types that were small enough to use like a rifle, but used a stirrup to to allow the user to draw back the bow would be easier and more popular. the Gastraphete is too large to make it worth using in the more fluid type of warfare in the pre-crash era. (it was created in an era when enemies fought in big blocks of men with swords, not spread out skirmishers. whats more, it was originally developed as a seige weapon, which requires even less mobility)

but making crossbows, of whatever type, should be considered an option. though making regular bows is likely to be easier. (one would expect the Longbow to have a resurgence of popularity)

[glitterboy2098]

Civil War Union 6-Pounder cannons, under troop loadout in the adventure "Doc Feral's Dynamic Dimensional Doohickey", Transdimenional TMNT pg. 99. Gives weight with and without cart, range, calibre, price for modern replica, and damage for two types of cannon shot, as well as a basic idea of how much gunpowder (gunpowder? Weird, I'd've thought black powder) is required for the ammunition carried.

Note: As I said here, I was surprised to read "gunpowder" in the description of the above Civil War cannon. If you can find evidence they were in fact black powder weapons, you would do well to impose black powder misfire rules on said cannons.

they were blackpowder weapons. smokeless powder hadn't been invented yet. technically, the stats in TDMNT could also apply to cannon back in the 1700's. indeed, they fit those cannon better. the main advance during the civil war was in shells (a great many varieties of exploding shells, various types of grapeshot and cannister, conical shells...) and bores (breachloaders, rifled bores, and so on.) the TDTMNT stats represent a fairly typical napoleonic era 6pdr, which is close enough to the 'standard' cannon types used in the civil war to work. representing the later breachloading rifled models would be a case of removing the penalties to hit and speeding up the rate of fire by about 2x.

keep in mind though, a great many varieties of cannon were used in the civil war, including smaller models with longer barrels (longer ranged, less damage), 'mortars' (squat versions firing shells on a high arc..used as a seige weapon), and so on. generally the confederates saw a lot of variety in their batteries, due to limited supply issues. union batteries tended to be standardized.

Black powder rifles are all well and good, very handy if you've got nothing else, but now and then you'll need a bigger gun. This could mean bringing out the rare ammo or the odd scavenged EoH laser rifle. However, it could also mean bringing out primitive but effective 6-pounder cannon mass-produced in your factory.

true enough. though i would expect the cannon to be emplaced permanently in some sort of defensive work. even when not needed. nothing like seeing the village has walls and cannon to deter bandits.

[glitterboy2098]

an article with a bunch of new weapons and some new backgrounds/apprenticeships would be nice, actualy.
you can update the weapons from TDTMNT into current palladium forms (mainly a case of changing the terminology, actually), not just the historical weapons, but possibly some of the 'futuristic' weapons in it and related books.

personally i'd like to see a series of articles updating the old ATB sourcebooks to the new rules. IE: "roadhogs revised" providing new style stats for the animal types, backgrounds, maybe even some updates and new options for the vehicles construction rules. (like adding different engine types [deisel, hybrid, electric, ect], some vehicle types [SUV's, military trucks, and wheeled fighting vehicles], and new weapons and equipment)
sections expanding the setting fluff are optional, though i'd love it if such were included.

you could also do an article updating the old TMNT material a bit, or at least the parts palladium created. some of the species, the gear, backgrounds, etc.. at the very least, someone should write up aztec-land for the new ATB, Mutants of the yucatan relies too heavily on it, but there is no way to get the original TMNT book anymore.

[glitterboy2098]

*long, quiet pause*

Shall I assume you're working on it, or have I in fact discouraged you? I can tell you, I'd prefer the former.

nah, just very busy with work, college, and finishing the rifts worldbook i'm working on. and if i get around to doing ATB stuff, it would probably be to keep working on the plains of free cattle stuff i've already got notes on... [shrug]
the again, the blackpowder weapons and such would fit well into the dynamic i was working up for that...

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

You should see my big dumb cave bunnies sometime.

Yes please!