Radioactive Waste

[azazel1024]

*copied from the Rifts thread*

If the places are powered solely on generators then that would be an issue, but if they can pull power from the grid and only use the generators as a backup things would be less dire. Most nuclear plants are pretty well automated. Odds are decent they'd keep puttering along on their own for months or years before a real problem came up, and a lot have auto shut down safe guards now (or are self limiting). So they'd be able to power their own cooling systems for the pools for months or even several years afterward. If the electrical draw on the nuke pant dropped a lot after an apocalyptic situation and the automated systems worked right the reactor load and reaction rate would drop a lot as well, so the nuclear fuel would last a lot longer as well. I have no idea how long, maybe several years or even several decades with minimum load on the reactors before stuff broke down or the reactors ran out of fuel. If say a 1,000mw reactor had a designed 6 month fuel supply before needing fuel rod replacement and the load drops to something like maybe 10mw because of the end of the world (only a few things left connect to the plants portion of the grid, powering the plant itself, etc) you might well get 100x more life out of the fuel, though I doubt the plant systems would last 50 years before break downs occured.

Just a few thoughts on it. I really don't know how all the systems are designed. Let alone the spent fuel pool cooling systems. If this gets moved over the DR thread, this is my opinion on why radiation hasn't become a big issue, the plants are running on auto pilot mostly disconnected from the grid or with minimal load on the grid (lots of downed power lines from weather, panicked drivers hitting power poles, stuff falling on power lines, lack of maitenance, no one to leave lights on, etc). So the nuclear power plants are kind of just idling a long for now. Things might get interesting in a few years or a decade or two though if humanity doesn't get their stuff together and start taking things back from the zombies.

Also take the Life after People show with a grain of salt, some of that stuff is a little far fetched, mostly on how fast some of that stuff happens.
-Matt

[azazel1024]

I wish I had seen the thing. I have a hard time imagining that the radiocative waste would burn through its containers. Ususally the stuff is placed in glass in to metal drums and then placed in to the pools if I remember correctly. Few radioactives produce enough thermal energy to metal glass, let alone metal. Polonium is one of the few radioactive materials that is self vaporizing under the heat of its radioactive decay. Plutonium will glow red hot from its radioactive decay. Other then that there isn't much that puts out huge amounts of heat, at least enough for melting glass/metal.

So I'd imagine that they could put out enough heat to evaporate/vaporize the water given a few days, but I doubt they'd have enough thermal output to burn through their containers.
-Matt

[bigbobsr6000]

Speaking of radioactive zombies.........

Radioactive Zombies For Dead Reign
________________________________________
In addition to the bite, a zombie may deliver radiation sickness to the victim with a successful attack. Plus, the greater number of zombies in a concentrated area, the more rads one is exposed to due to close proximity. The radiation exposure to PCs is up to your individual campaign. I use the following number of radioactive zombies in a mob per amount-irradiated exposure. 1-9=similar to x-ray exposure, 10-20=lightly, 21-50=moderately, 51-100=highly, 101+=severely.

Radiation Sickness Delivered by Scratch/Claw: Save vs. Lethal Toxins 14. If failed, death will occur in 2 to 14 days (Roll 1d10 + 1d4). Then will need to Save vs Coma/Death.

Radiation Sickness due to Exposure:
X-ray Exposure: Save vs. Non-Lethal Toxins 16 + 1 per 10 minutes of radiation exposure.
Light Exposure: Save vs. Lethal Toxins 14 + 1 per one minute (4 melee rounds) of radiation exposure.
Moderate Exposure: Save vs. Lethal Toxins 14 + 1 per 30 seconds (2 melee rounds) of radiation exposure.
High Exposure: Save vs. Lethal Toxins 14 + 1 per 15 seconds (1 melee round) of radiation exposure.
Severe Exposure: Save vs. Coma/Death after 15 seconds (1 melee round) of radiation exposure.

Now, not all the zombies need to be radioactive (and no they do not glow in the dark). These could be found in or around a former nuclear power plant, which left unattended, went awry. Near the obvious nuked area.(Maybe in an attempt to destroy them.) Or from a nuclear powered aircraft carrier/submarine at port or drifted ashore somewhere unleashing their undead crew.

This is just an idea, please feel free to use and adjust as you see fit. Feedback welcome.

Thanks, Big Bob.

Effects of Radiation Exposure on Human Health
Nausea
Vomiting
Headache
Some Loss Of White Blood Cells
Hair Loss
Damage To Nerve Cells And The Cells That Line The Digestive Tract.
Radiation Victims Highly Vulnerable To Disease
Victims Of Radiation Sickness Are Also Vulnerable To Hemorrhaging.
Suffer From Fever And Diarrhea
Death Occurs Within Two To Fourteen Days.

[jaymz]

Interesting.. I never considered that before.
I've seen previews for that show on TV but never watched, I'm sure it would contain a wealth of information for a DR campaign. I'll keep an eye out for reruns.

Actually the Life After People is a TV show now. They are 10 episodes in so you may be able to catch new episodes after the holidays.

[azazel1024]

I like the radioactive zombie. I think the exposure would need to be lower with a bunch of them around though. The radiation levels needed to develop radiation sickness are really, really high and the level of radiation drops with the square of the distance. So having a hundred basically pure strontium zombies standing 10ft from you is probably enough to give you radiation sickness in a matter of a few minutes, but them standing 50ft away for a few minutes might not be much worse exposure then a cheast x-ray.

Its time + distance + radiation source strength + source type (alpha doesn't travel far, beta travels pretty far, gamma is the worst) to determine how bad the exposure is.

Most radiation is really bad from something like a nuclear melt down, reactor leak, etc not because you are in close proximity to something radioactive, but because you end up breathing in and having direct skin contact to the radioactive material (or ingesting it). Being near a solid that is radioactive just doesn't do a lot unless the exposure is over a really long time.
-Matt

[bigbobsr6000]

I like the radioactive zombie. I think the exposure would need to be lower with a bunch of them around though. The radiation levels needed to develop radiation sickness are really, really high and the level of radiation drops with the square of the distance. So having a hundred basically pure strontium zombies standing 10ft from you is probably enough to give you radiation sickness in a matter of a few minutes, but them standing 50ft away for a few minutes might not be much worse exposure then a cheast x-ray.

Its time + distance + radiation source strength + source type (alpha doesn't travel far, beta travels pretty far, gamma is the worst) to determine how bad the exposure is.

Most radiation is really bad from something like a nuclear melt down, reactor leak, etc not because you are in close proximity to something radioactive, but because you end up breathing in and having direct skin contact to the radioactive material (or ingesting it). Being near a solid that is radioactive just doesn't do a lot unless the exposure is over a really long time.
-Matt

Thanks for the feedback and info. Could you please come up with an alternate exposure danger based on # of radioactive zombies in area? How close one would have to be? etc.

[azazel1024]

I'll have to get back to you on it (tomorrow probably).
-Matt

[J. Lionheart]

I like the idea of Radioactive zombies.. I wonder what else we can come up with..

Well, the Radioactive Commie-Nazi Zombie from Outer-Space is a classic. What could be more fun to kill?

[azazel1024]

I like the radioactive zombie. I think the exposure would need to be lower with a bunch of them around though. The radiation levels needed to develop radiation sickness are really, really high and the level of radiation drops with the square of the distance. So having a hundred basically pure strontium zombies standing 10ft from you is probably enough to give you radiation sickness in a matter of a few minutes, but them standing 50ft away for a few minutes might not be much worse exposure then a cheast x-ray.

Its time + distance + radiation source strength + source type (alpha doesn't travel far, beta travels pretty far, gamma is the worst) to determine how bad the exposure is.

Most radiation is really bad from something like a nuclear melt down, reactor leak, etc not because you are in close proximity to something radioactive, but because you end up breathing in and having direct skin contact to the radioactive material (or ingesting it). Being near a solid that is radioactive just doesn't do a lot unless the exposure is over a really long time.
-Matt

Thanks for the feedback and info. Could you please come up with an alternate exposure danger based on # of radioactive zombies in area? How close one would have to be? etc.

Okay, here is what I would personally do as an alternative, YMMV.

Bite or scratch, save vs lethal poison 14 or higher. If the save fails the person contracts (well shows symptoms of) radiation sickness within 24+4d6 hours. Read radiation poisoning below.

Any physical contact, even if it doesn't deal damage has a 1-20% chance of causing radiation poisoning, on an unsuccessful roll (ie 1-20) a save vs lethal poison must be made.

If for some reason you like to hang out around rad zombies for a long period of time you may also contract radiation poisoning, this includes hanging out around dead radiation zombies. A save VS lethal poison of 14 or higher must be made every 60 minutes if within 30ft of a zombie. -2 minutes for every zombie within that distance. Minimum time is once per minute. The exposure clock only resets once every 24hrs. So you could be around a single zombie for 59 minutes without having to roll a save, run away and then the next day you could be around another one for 59 minutes without having to roll to save. However, if your near one for 59 minutes and then run in to another one that you grapple with (without being injured) for a couple of minutes you would have to roll to save.

So an example of this is our hero bill happens to kill a zombie and decides to pitch his tent near it unwittingly. After an hour he has to roll VS lethal poison or else contract radiation poisoning in 24+4D6 hours. If Bill went all rambo on a bunch of zombies and there were 10 zombies he killed and then sat down for a snack, after 40 minutes (60min - 2x# of zombies) he'd have to roll vs. lethal poison.

Now maybe charlie is a death priest. Well little does he know his little zombie pose he likes to control are really radiation zombies. He has 30 of them that he uses regularly, well he is doing a ritual around them and he has to save VS lethal posion every minute because of his close proximity to them!

Radiation sickness/poisoning
The character feels weak, suffers from hair loss, skin blistering, vomiting, nausea, peeling skin, loss of finger nails, diarrhea, headaches and weakened immune system. This can progress to death, especially without medical care. Wounds do not heal and clotting is weakened (wounds will not clot on their own, they must be bandaged)

Effects are -2d4HP per day, no injuries are healed for the duration
-25% to PS, PE (including your roll to save VS coma/death), SPD, PB and PP attributes.
-3 to strike, parry and dodge
Tires more quickly, after more then 5 minutes of intense physical activity double all penalties for one hour until the character has a chance to rest (so -50% to all physical attributes, -6 to strike, etc, etc)

Care from someone with a first aid or paramedic skill will reduce the damage to 1d6HP per day.

The proper care from a hospital equivelent facility will reduce the damage to 1d4HP per day. This requires proper hydration, possibly through IV, proper bandaging of any blisters or wounds, sterile environment, etc.

Recovery and prevention.

With no medical care there is a 1-10% chance of recovery per day.
With basic medical care from someone with a first aid or paramedic skill, a 1-12% chance of recovery per day
With someone with the MD skill and the proper facilities/medicines there is a 1-15% chance of recover per day

If a successful save is made the character can begin to heal naturally, but they remain weak until all radiation related HP damage is healed. The penalties however are only -10% to all physical attributes and -2 to strike, parry and dodge. The character still tires after 5 minutes of intense activity (combat, running, heavy lifting, etc) with penalities doubled until they rest for an hour.

Expanding upon some recent research, in DR there are a few different anti-radiation medicines that can be taken to prevent radiation sickness. Lets lump them in to two catagories, Potassium Iodide (KI) pills which are 'resonably' common (IE you could find them in most hospitals, clinics and some pharamcies because they are used for treatment of fungal infectsion, hyperthyroidism and radiation intake). KI prevents the accumulation and concentration of radioactive iodine in the body and thyroid, radioactive iodine is a common component in nuclear power plant melt downs (Chernobyl being an example). We are going to call the other catagory just antiradiation pills. Some recent research is showing that there are a few compounds, such as Cordyceps sinensis, Nuemune and one or two others that seem to be showing some promise of mitigating the effects of radiation exposure on bone marrow and the digestive system (radiation destroys fast growing cells the easiest, which means the digestive system and bone marrow are destroyed first from radiation exposure).

To add this to the game for radiation exposure.

Potassium Iodide will provide a +2 to save VS lethal poison for exposure to a radiation zombie's bite or scratch and will also provide a +3% chance to recovery rolls so long as two doses are taken per day (each dose lasts 12hrs).

Antiradiation pills (generic) will provide a +2 to save VS lethal poison against all types of radiation exposure (including a zombie's bite/scratch, and proximity exposure) and will also provide a +3% chance to recovery rolls against all types of radiation sickness. Antiradiation pills must be taken every 6 hours and provide 6hrs of protection (so 4 doses a day to add the bonus to save VS radiation sickness).

As I said, YMMV but I think my system may work. Only way to find out is to play with it.
-Matt

[azazel1024]

I like the idea of Radioactive zombies.. I wonder what else we can come up with..

I do to, even if they are rare at first. The radiation didn't cause the zombie, but maybe the occasional nuke plant starts melting down, or maybe its just some workers from a nuke plant that rose as zombies and got exposed then.

I'd like to eventually see some fun zombie mutations. Especially since my take has always been that zombies were caused by some disease. I keep the PPE in my game, but what turns people to zombies is still the disease. It has changed so that it is direct infection in to the blood stream (IE bite, scratch, etc) that can cause it. BUT everyone in the world who is still alive is 'immune' to it, which is why they never got the plague and rose as a zombie. HOWEVER, if they are killed by a zombie their immune system stops working and the zombie plague takes over their body. This works if they were bitten and later die a few days later from general wound infection or even something else that kills them before their 'zombie wound' has healed completely. The person's immune system hadn't completely faught off the zombie infection before they died. As soon as the immune system is gone the zombie infection can take over the body in a matter of minutes (it is highly agressive). Now an already dead person can't be turned in to a zombie unless they had already been bitten/scratched/etc. The infection has to have been spread in to them first, and a dead person has no circulation so the zombie plague can't turn them in to a zombie before their body is to far dead for it to work.

Heck, even if you ignore my own little personal take on things, the various reasons on why the zombies have risen in the front of DR almost all sound like different zombie mutations could start showing up (I do not like the idea of zombie animals, insects, etc and I hope PB doesn't go that route at any point).
-Matt

[bigbobsr6000]

I like the radioactive zombie. I think the exposure would need to be lower with a bunch of them around though. The radiation levels needed to develop radiation sickness are really, really high and the level of radiation drops with the square of the distance. So having a hundred basically pure strontium zombies standing 10ft from you is probably enough to give you radiation sickness in a matter of a few minutes, but them standing 50ft away for a few minutes might not be much worse exposure then a cheast x-ray.

Its time + distance + radiation source strength + source type (alpha doesn't travel far, beta travels pretty far, gamma is the worst) to determine how bad the exposure is.

Most radiation is really bad from something like a nuclear melt down, reactor leak, etc not because you are in close proximity to something radioactive, but because you end up breathing in and having direct skin contact to the radioactive material (or ingesting it). Being near a solid that is radioactive just doesn't do a lot unless the exposure is over a really long time.
-Matt

Thanks for the feedback and info. Could you please come up with an alternate exposure danger based on # of radioactive zombies in area? How close one would have to be? etc.

Okay, here is what I would personally do as an alternative, YMMV.

Bite or scratch, save vs lethal poison 14 or higher. If the save fails the person contracts (well shows symptoms of) radiation sickness within 24+4d6 hours. Read radiation poisoning below.

Any physical contact, even if it doesn't deal damage has a 1-20% chance of causing radiation poisoning, on an unsuccessful roll (ie 1-20) a save vs lethal poison must be made.

If for some reason you like to hang out around rad zombies for a long period of time you may also contract radiation poisoning, this includes hanging out around dead radiation zombies. A save VS lethal poison of 14 or higher must be made every 60 minutes if within 30ft of a zombie. -2 minutes for every zombie within that distance. Minimum time is once per minute. The exposure clock only resets once every 24hrs. So you could be around a single zombie for 59 minutes without having to roll a save, run away and then the next day you could be around another one for 59 minutes without having to roll to save. However, if your near one for 59 minutes and then run in to another one that you grapple with (without being injured) for a couple of minutes you would have to roll to save.

So an example of this is our hero bill happens to kill a zombie and decides to pitch his tent near it unwittingly. After an hour he has to roll VS lethal poison or else contract radiation poisoning in 24+4D6 hours. If Bill went all rambo on a bunch of zombies and there were 10 zombies he killed and then sat down for a snack, after 40 minutes (60min - 2x# of zombies) he'd have to roll vs. lethal poison.

Now maybe charlie is a death priest. Well little does he know his little zombie pose he likes to control are really radiation zombies. He has 30 of them that he uses regularly, well he is doing a ritual around them and he has to save VS lethal posion every minute because of his close proximity to them!

Radiation sickness/poisoning
The character feels weak, suffers from hair loss, skin blistering, vomiting, nausea, peeling skin, loss of finger nails, diarrhea, headaches and weakened immune system. This can progress to death, especially without medical care. Wounds do not heal and clotting is weakened (wounds will not clot on their own, they must be bandaged)

Effects are -2d4HP per day, no injuries are healed for the duration
-25% to PS, PE (including your roll to save VS coma/death), SPD, PB and PP attributes.
-3 to strike, parry and dodge
Tires more quickly, after more then 5 minutes of intense physical activity double all penalties for one hour until the character has a chance to rest (so -50% to all physical attributes, -6 to strike, etc, etc)

Care from someone with a first aid or paramedic skill will reduce the damage to 1d6HP per day.

The proper care from a hospital equivelent facility will reduce the damage to 1d4HP per day. This requires proper hydration, possibly through IV, proper bandaging of any blisters or wounds, sterile environment, etc.

Recovery and prevention.

With no medical care there is a 1-10% chance of recovery per day.
With basic medical care from someone with a first aid or paramedic skill, a 1-12% chance of recovery per day
With someone with the MD skill and the proper facilities/medicines there is a 1-15% chance of recover per day

If a successful save is made the character can begin to heal naturally, but they remain weak until all radiation related HP damage is healed. The penalties however are only -10% to all physical attributes and -2 to strike, parry and dodge. The character still tires after 5 minutes of intense activity (combat, running, heavy lifting, etc) with penalities doubled until they rest for an hour.

Expanding upon some recent research, in DR there are a few different anti-radiation medicines that can be taken to prevent radiation sickness. Lets lump them in to two catagories, Potassium Iodide (KI) pills which are 'resonably' common (IE you could find them in most hospitals, clinics and some pharamcies because they are used for treatment of fungal infectsion, hyperthyroidism and radiation intake). KI prevents the accumulation and concentration of radioactive iodine in the body and thyroid, radioactive iodine is a common component in nuclear power plant melt downs (Chernobyl being an example). We are going to call the other catagory just antiradiation pills. Some recent research is showing that there are a few compounds, such as Cordyceps sinensis, Nuemune and one or two others that seem to be showing some promise of mitigating the effects of radiation exposure on bone marrow and the digestive system (radiation destroys fast growing cells the easiest, which means the digestive system and bone marrow are destroyed first from radiation exposure).

To add this to the game for radiation exposure.

Potassium Iodide will provide a +2 to save VS lethal poison for exposure to a radiation zombie's bite or scratch and will also provide a +3% chance to recovery rolls so long as two doses are taken per day (each dose lasts 12hrs).

Antiradiation pills (generic) will provide a +2 to save VS lethal poison against all types of radiation exposure (including a zombie's bite/scratch, and proximity exposure) and will also provide a +3% chance to recovery rolls against all types of radiation sickness. Antiradiation pills must be taken every 6 hours and provide 6hrs of protection (so 4 doses a day to add the bonus to save VS radiation sickness).

As I said, YMMV but I think my system may work. Only way to find out is to play with it.
-Matt

THIS IS GREAT!! Really like it and thank you for doing it.