Would You Become Cold-Blooded ?

Astral Pantheon · Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:26 pm

If you were a Human or D-Bee (SDC ) and had a Free chance at becoming Cold-Blooded R.C.C. ---Would you become Cold-Blooded??

Before anyone asks the Cold-Blooded R.C.C. is in Rifts@Adventure Sourcebook Mercenary Adventures.

!!Feel free to post why or your thoughts on Cold-Blooded R.C.C. !!

csbioborg · Unread post by **csbioborg** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:29 pm

yes as written they are the nicest deal you can make in rifts as a normal person with a couple extra bucks

even beheading one wont kill it

Astral Pantheon · Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:43 pm

csbioborg wrote:yes as written they are the nicest deal you can make in rifts as a normal person with a couple extra bucks

even beheading one wont kill it

And

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:I personally like the CB OCC. It's well balanced and not nearly as munchkin as some of the OCC's in that book. IF I ended up on Rift's Earth, I would consisder this class as a survival option.

Yes, I agree as a normal person its the nicest deal and great survival option (You could be lost deep into the Canada/Alaska wilderness bare naked and still have an excellant chance on surviving). But there are ways to munchkin even this.... Cold-Blooded Minotaur need I say more.

Astral Pantheon · Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:06 pm

Lets see from a normal human to Cold-Blooded on just for survival reasons:

1. Become M.D.C.
2. Robotic Strength
3. Fast Regeneration (even limbs, eyes, ect..if buried in ground)
4. Many Stat bonuses
5. Many Immunities
and a few bad side effects...mostly the need for raw meat, bone and blood (However, it can be animal) along with chance of insanity (But in Rifts Earth Who isn't a little Crazy.)

Very nice overall for survival

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:10 pm

If we're basing this on chances for survival, then yes I'd consider it.

Not sure what my wife might have to say, though...

Astral Pantheon · Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:25 pm

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:
Mack wrote:If we're basing this on chances for survival, then yes I'd consider it.

Not sure what my wife might have to say, though...

You'd mess up a wonderful trip to RE by bringing your wife,

Munchkin Slappin GM, if Mach and his wife both became Cold-Blooded their chance for survival go up (Plus having a loved one with you is always a nice bonus).

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:00 am

Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:
Mack wrote:If we're basing this on chances for survival, then yes I'd consider it.

Not sure what my wife might have to say, though...

You'd mess up a wonderful trip to RE by bringing your wife,

What can I say? I fear her more than a Vampire-transformed Splugorth.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:49 am

Mack wrote:
Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:
Mack wrote:If we're basing this on chances for survival, then yes I'd consider it.

Not sure what my wife might have to say, though...

You'd mess up a wonderful trip to RE by bringing your wife,

What can I say? I fear her more than a Vampire-transformed Splugorth.

londonbaz · Unread post by **londonbaz** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:51 pm

Without question and as soon as possible... best enhancement for the price of a small slice of humanity... and with EBA who cares about the temperature problems?

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:30 pm

I'm glad this topic came up, it reminded me about the potential for the Cold-Blooded. Virtual immortality, natural enemy status of the undead, and none of the creepy bloodletting of vampires. I'm currently writing up an NPC for my Madhaven game, an N'mbyr Gorilla Man Cold-Blooded as a member of a wicked merc group called The Black Vultures. Their hand to hand strikes also harm entities, so they have an advantage. And with an N'mbyr becoming Cold-Blooded, at least they have the option for temporarily gaining Supernatural P.S.

Couple this with the natural psionic or mystical nature of some races, the next question would be what would the best mortal/S.D.C. race be to be transformed into a Cold-Blooded? I debated over using the N'mbyr or a Blucie from D-Bees of North America. If you're looking for hellacious conversion to M.D.C., there's the Bayou Ursines or original Lyvorrkians from Vampire Kingdoms, pre-M.D.C. update along with the giant races.

londonbaz · Unread post by **londonbaz** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:49 pm

DtMK wrote:I'm glad this topic came up, it reminded me about the potential for the Cold-Blooded. Virtual immortality, natural enemy status of the undead, and none of the creepy bloodletting of vampires. I'm currently writing up an NPC for my Madhaven game, an N'mbyr Gorilla Man Cold-Blooded as a member of a wicked merc group called The Black Vultures. Their hand to hand strikes also harm entities, so they have an advantage. And with an N'mbyr becoming Cold-Blooded, at least they have the option for temporarily gaining Supernatural P.S.

Couple this with the natural psionic or mystical nature of some races, the next question would be what would the best mortal/S.D.C. race be to be transformed into a Cold-Blooded? I debated over using the N'mbyr or a Blucie from D-Bees of North America. If you're looking for hellacious conversion to M.D.C., there's the Bayou Ursines or original Lyvorrkians from Vampire Kingdoms, pre-M.D.C. update along with the giant races.

Avianne, Minotaur, Blucie, Ogre... all have massive appeal. Look outside the box as well - the trust/intimidate bonus coupled with D'Norr Devilman (with its high MA) can be nasty just to create the terrifying individual brooding in the corner...

Daniel Stoker · Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:19 pm

DtMK wrote:Couple this with the natural psionic or mystical nature of some races, the next question would be what would the best mortal/S.D.C. race be to be transformed into a Cold-Blooded? I debated over using the N'mbyr or a Blucie from D-Bees of North America. If you're looking for hellacious conversion to M.D.C., there's the Bayou Ursines or original Lyvorrkians from Vampire Kingdoms, pre-M.D.C. update along with the giant races.

The only issue is as Mack and I went over before we don't know from the write-up what if any Magic or Psionic powers transfer over after the transformation into a Cold Blooded.

Daniel Stoker

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:21 am

As a GM, I'd say let them keep whatever natural abilities the race had before going through the conversion. The Wampyr in Nightbane are caught between life and death, and they actually GAIN psionic powers. Becoming Cold-Blooded is a quasi-undeath, so it shouldn't obliterate racial abilities like vampirism and Murder-Wraith conversion does.

Besides, it opens up possibilities for varied Cold-Blooded that way. That could be what truly makes them dangerous, you expect them NOT to have any special abilities only to be surprised. It's not as powerful as becoming a Cosmo-Knight, and allows for individuality. They can be virtually any alignment and their HTH attacks do damage to the supernatural and entities. Besides, is natural psionics really so horrible to have for a conversion that gives them a headache under heat lamps?

Blucies are already cannibals, and an Auto-G MIGHT be able to undergo it. On the plus side, it would give them plenty of chances to get genetic material to transform. But if an Auto-G or Changeling Cold-Blooded were caught eating raw flesh while imitating someone else, then the dietary requirements may give them away.

Astral Pantheon · Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:19 am

DtMK wrote:As a GM, I'd say let them keep whatever natural abilities the race had before going through the conversion. The Wampyr in Nightbane are caught between life and death, and they actually GAIN psionic powers. Becoming Cold-Blooded is a quasi-undeath, so it shouldn't obliterate racial abilities like vampirism and Murder-Wraith conversion does.

Besides, it opens up possibilities for varied Cold-Blooded that way. That could be what truly makes them dangerous, you expect them NOT to have any special abilities only to be surprised. It's not as powerful as becoming a Cosmo-Knight, and allows for individuality. They can be virtually any alignment and their HTH attacks do damage to the supernatural and entities. Besides, is natural psionics really so horrible to have for a conversion that gives them a headache under heat lamps?

Blucies are already cannibals, and an Auto-G MIGHT be able to undergo it. On the plus side, it would give them plenty of chances to get genetic material to transform. But if an Auto-G or Changeling Cold-Blooded were caught eating raw flesh while imitating someone else, then the dietary requirements may give them away.

I wouldn't allow shapeshifters myself to undergo the process but natural abilities or ok with me (as long as not linked to taste...reduced in transformation). Even if you go just go for human 1st lvl (or d-bee) as example in book..we are talking about: M.D.C. 50+11d6 to start. Thats very Nice

csbioborg · Unread post by **csbioborg** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:48 am

DtMK wrote:As a GM, I'd say let them keep whatever natural abilities the race had before going through the conversion. The Wampyr in Nightbane are caught between life and death, and they actually GAIN psionic powers. Becoming Cold-Blooded is a quasi-undeath, so it shouldn't obliterate racial abilities like vampirism and Murder-Wraith conversion does.

Besides, it opens up possibilities for varied Cold-Blooded that way. That could be what truly makes them dangerous, you expect them NOT to have any special abilities only to be surprised. It's not as powerful as becoming a Cosmo-Knight, and allows for individuality. They can be virtually any alignment and their HTH attacks do damage to the supernatural and entities. Besides, is natural psionics really so horrible to have for a conversion that gives them a headache under heat lamps?

Blucies are already cannibals, and an Auto-G MIGHT be able to undergo it. On the plus side, it would give them plenty of chances to get genetic material to transform. But if an Auto-G or Changeling Cold-Blooded were caught eating raw flesh while imitating someone else, then the dietary requirements may give them away.

since that raw flesh is anything
he just has to go to a sushi bar a couple times a week
its not like he is eating human flesh

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:12 pm

See, this is another thing that gets me about the description of the Cold-Blooded. You can be any other human or D-Bee when transformed as long as you're mortal or S.D.C. Because it's not a full undead conversion, natural abilities should be kept, as it's an O.C.C., but they keep flip-flopping on it, calling it an R.C.C. So which is it? If you're a human, Blucie, N'mbyr or others starting out, THAT'S a race. The Cold-Blooded conversion is a potion and rituals. The Corrupt is an O.C.C., right?

Maybe should ask the Q&A to get some definitive answers about this. But I can see a persecuted race like Changelings, Auto-G's, etc. going through the process for revenge against those that wronged them. Natural abilities I'd allow, and even I'd be hesitant at full blown P.C.C.'s going through it, except the Momano headhunters also allow Bursters, Zapper, Nega-Psychics and Mind Melters into their ranks.

I know Cosmo-Knights are an O.C.C. too, and the transformation is more drastic. But let's say a Ley Line Walker or Mind Melter become chosen by the Cosmic Forge. Okay, their magic/psionics are replaced with Cosmic goodness. They screw up and fall, they lose plenty of their powers, but now have the option of Ley Line Walker or Mind Melter again? It's a trade-off. But there's no coming back from being Cold-Blooded!

Astral Pantheon · Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:27 am

DtMK wrote:See, this is another thing that gets me about the description of the Cold-Blooded. You can be any other human or D-Bee when transformed as long as you're mortal or S.D.C. Because it's not a full undead conversion, natural abilities should be kept, as it's an O.C.C., but they keep flip-flopping on it, calling it an R.C.C. So which is it? If you're a human, Blucie, N'mbyr or others starting out, THAT'S a race. The Cold-Blooded conversion is a potion and rituals. The Corrupt is an O.C.C., right?

Maybe should ask the Q&A to get some definitive answers about this. But I can see a persecuted race like Changelings, Auto-G's, etc. going through the process for revenge against those that wronged them. Natural abilities I'd allow, and even I'd be hesitant at full blown P.C.C.'s going through it, except the Momano headhunters also allow Bursters, Zapper, Nega-Psychics and Mind Melters into their ranks.

I know Cosmo-Knights are an O.C.C. too, and the transformation is more drastic. But let's say a Ley Line Walker or Mind Melter become chosen by the Cosmic Forge. Okay, their magic/psionics are replaced with Cosmic goodness. They screw up and fall, they lose plenty of their powers, but now have the option of Ley Line Walker or Mind Melter again? It's a trade-off. But there's no coming back from being Cold-Blooded!

Cold-Blooded has so much potential but it would be nice to know if Psychic/Magic powers are kept (even if frozen at full or half like vampire)....If either is so, then I could see many going Cold Blooded just for the semi-immortality!!

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:53 pm

I've posted the question on the Palladium Q&A, hopefully it'll generate enough buzz and interest to find a definitive answer.

Astral Pantheon · Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:04 am

DtMK wrote:I've posted the question on the Palladium Q&A, hopefully it'll generate enough buzz and interest to find a definitive answer.

While even if a definitive answer cannot be reached there still will always be a Cold Blooded Minotaur with a Magic Axe (from HU2: For spell Power) :lol:

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:10 am

And so far, the current consensus says that Cold-Bloodeds should still retain the special abilities inherent to their race. And I think I came up with another frightening possibility! A Feni Nomad Cold-Blooded! Everyone's expecting a frightened, easily skittish creature, but when they go into their berzerker rage, they gain 1D6X100 extra S.D.C. per level! It's a mortal S.D.C. creature, so it should be legal. Now imagine a ticked off, camouflaging, condition adapting, Robotic strength wielding deer humanoid snapping and knowing that the thing won't stop until you're dead or it is? Couple with their power punches do triple normal damage to supernatural and undead opponents, this critter puts the Bam in Bambi!

Crucible · Unread post by **Crucible** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:08 am

In short....no.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:59 pm

DtMK wrote:And so far, the current consensus says that Cold-Bloodeds should still retain the special abilities inherent to their race. And I think I came up with another frightening possibility! A Feni Nomad Cold-Blooded! Everyone's expecting a frightened, easily skittish creature, but when they go into their berzerker rage, they gain 1D6X100 extra S.D.C. per level! It's a mortal S.D.C. creature, so it should be legal. Now imagine a ticked off, camouflaging, condition adapting, Robotic strength wielding deer humanoid snapping and knowing that the thing won't stop until you're dead or it is? Couple with their power punches do triple normal damage to supernatural and undead opponents, this critter puts the Bam in Bambi!

Brilliant!

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:33 pm

Thanks! And that's the Cold-Blooded's triple damage to supernatural power punch, the Feni Nomads are masters of adaptation to environments, which is added to with a Cold-Blooded because now they can survive in a vacuum.

Rahmota · Unread post by **Rahmota** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:03 pm

Nope not a chance in Hade's realm or if you gave me all the jewels in christendom. I would rather die a human than live as a creature. I have no idea why so many peple are so ashamed of or disgusted with being a human.

Daniel Stoker · Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:09 pm

I'm neither shamed or disgusted, but if I'm going to live on Rifts Earth I wouldn't mind giving myself some advantages.

Daniel Stoker

londonbaz · Unread post by **londonbaz** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:04 am

Daniel Stoker wrote:I'm neither shamed or disgusted, but if I'm going to live on Rifts Earth I wouldn't mind giving myself some advantages.

Daniel Stoker

And Cold Blooded means that you keep your "equipment"...

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:43 am

I'm not ashamed nor disgusted with being a human either, but let's face it, Rifts Earth is a hostile place. You need every advantage you can get. Let's take your average D-Bee friendly bar. The occasional gunfights breaking out and the risk of minding your own business when suddenly you're shot with a friendly fire sniper-silent laser blast and vaporized. One shot, poof! You're misted! Then you have potential con men or cardsharps who are probably reading your mind and you don't even know it, strange creatures looking too good to be true, so they're probably trying to seduce you while their goal is sucking on your bone marrow. Then you have stories of monsters, militant humans who hate you for one reason in this town and another in the next, and your friend next to you is talking with a Tarlok or metamorphed dragon in human form cracking jokes, then the monstrous being laughs its butt off and does a restrained slap on your friend's back out of friendship, but even its restrained punch snaps the human's vertebrae. Great, empty your savings to get to someone to cast Restoration on you, or undergo Borg conversion so you can move again. That's just the BAR. Yeah, an advantage where you can take hits and keep on going sounds pretty darn good right now!

Astral Pantheon · Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:38 pm

DtMK wrote:I'm not ashamed nor disgusted with being a human either, but let's face it, Rifts Earth is a hostile place. You need every advantage you can get. Let's take your average D-Bee friendly bar. The occasional gunfights breaking out and the risk of minding your own business when suddenly you're shot with a friendly fire sniper-silent laser blast and vaporized. One shot, poof! You're misted! Then you have potential con men or cardsharps who are probably reading your mind and you don't even know it, strange creatures looking too good to be true, so they're probably trying to seduce you while their goal is sucking on your bone marrow. Then you have stories of monsters, militant humans who hate you for one reason in this town and another in the next, and your friend next to you is talking with a Tarlok or metamorphed dragon in human form cracking jokes, then the monstrous being laughs its butt off and does a restrained slap on your friend's back out of friendship, but even its restrained punch snaps the human's vertebrae. Great, empty your savings to get to someone to cast Restoration on you, or undergo Borg conversion so you can move again. That's just the BAR. Yeah, an advantage where you can take hits and keep on going sounds pretty darn good right now!

This statement is so very true.

The Galactus Kid · Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:02 pm

DtMK wrote:I'm not ashamed nor disgusted with being a human either, but let's face it, Rifts Earth is a hostile place. You need every advantage you can get. Let's take your average D-Bee friendly bar. The occasional gunfights breaking out and the risk of minding your own business when suddenly you're shot with a friendly fire sniper-silent laser blast and vaporized. One shot, poof! You're misted! Then you have potential con men or cardsharps who are probably reading your mind and you don't even know it, strange creatures looking too good to be true, so they're probably trying to seduce you while their goal is sucking on your bone marrow. Then you have stories of monsters, militant humans who hate you for one reason in this town and another in the next, and your friend next to you is talking with a Tarlok or metamorphed dragon in human form cracking jokes, then the monstrous being laughs its butt off and does a restrained slap on your friend's back out of friendship, but even its restrained punch snaps the human's vertebrae. Great, empty your savings to get to someone to cast Restoration on you, or undergo Borg conversion so you can move again. That's just the BAR. Yeah, an advantage where you can take hits and keep on going sounds pretty darn good right now!

Post of the year!!! I don't even know what I'm going to read for the next 357 days...

Rahmota · Unread post by **Rahmota** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:29 pm

Yes Rifts Earth is a hostile place but you can still get advantages without sacrificing your identity, soul or humanity to become a creature or monster. Body armor, weapons, EBA an aggressive attitude to defend yourself and kill the invading monsters and creatures before they kill you. And the greatest advantage of all associate with other humans. Other strong socities of people and stay away from the creatures and monsters.

As for a bar like that filled with hostile monsters and creatures I would never set foot in it and burn it to the ground if I couldnt avoid it. Monsters like you describe have no place on the human's earth.

If you are not human you are a creature or monster. Its as simple as that. It is better to die a human than to live as a monster.

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:57 pm

Rahmota wrote:Yes Rifts Earth is a hostile place but you can still get advantages without sacrificing your identity, soul or humanity to become a creature or monster. Body armor, weapons, EBA an aggressive attitude to defend yourself and kill the invading monsters and creatures before they kill you. And the greatest advantage of all associate with other humans. Other strong socities of people and stay away from the creatures and monsters.

As for a bar like that filled with hostile monsters and creatures I would never set foot in it and burn it to the ground if I couldnt avoid it. Monsters like you describe have no place on the human's earth.

If you are not human you are a creature or monster. Its as simple as that. It is better to die a human than to live as a monster.

Your last name wouldn't be Prosek, would it? :lol:

I agree, humans have a tougher time on Rifts Earth, and there's a few things I agree with. But the kill them before they kill you attitude? Pure CS propaganda to me. Not all creatures and monsters are evil, but with rhetoric like that, you run the risk of segregation simply because something is different. If you're psychic, you're a mutant, ergo we make you a second class citizen for fear of your physiological superiority overtaking us. Just because it's different, it's not automatically evil. And personally? A dragon friend would come in pretty handy if the poo-poo is hitting the fan!

But I digress. If I were on Rifts Earth and were offered the chance to be Cold-Blooded, I'd consider it. Now more than ever simply because on top of all the other problems I'd risk, someone wants to burn down or blow up the bar I'm in? Sheesh! Give a guy a break!

Oh, Astral Pantheon and Galactus Kid, thank you for your kind words. I kindly accept my nomination for post of the year, it's an honor just to be in this prestigious group! *bows*

Rahmota · Unread post by **Rahmota** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:20 pm

Unfortunately no my name is not Prosek.

However I am pro-human, pro-CSA and do stand by my attitude. The CSA are the good guys and the heroes defending and protecting the earth from the scum and villany of the multiverse.
This is Earth. Home and cradle of humanity and all these creatures and monsters are invaders and interlopers that should be dealt with like any other tresspasser. Send them home, imprison them or kill them. I suppose that some may proove themselves equal and capable of being trusted. But there are far far too many in the books that are totally and absolutely unable to be trusted integrated or deserving of anythign other than a plasma enema (assuming they even have a sphincter to do so) as all they want from humanity is a quick snack or sheep or death.

But this was not about letting other outsiders in this post was about taking a human and tainting and perverting them into a creature. To even consider throwing away the precious gift that is your human life and soul to gain just mere power, especially as with this OP the taint and stink of even partial undeath is an aberration an abhorent idea. I mean look at the cold blooded. You have to drink poisonous potions, dark rituals, you are giving up being a living breathing souled being to become a partly undead tainted creature that has at best a tentative grip on your soul. What sort of power are you selling yourself to to gain this power? What sort of strings come along with this? TANSTAAFL anyone?

And if you are willing to sell yourself out like that, betray your own species for personal gain and power what else are you willing to do? I could never trust someone who did that. If you would go that far for personal power whos to say you wouldnt turn on me at the first chance for somethign far less? You could never trust someone who tainted themselves like this. Ever.

If I where to wind up in Rifts Earth I swear i would rather die a human being than to live as a creature or monster. Heck Borg, Chemaug, PSI and mutants are pushing the envelope enough as it is. Cosmo knights are right out. I know that if a GM forced my character into this he would swallow the next fusion block he found or do whatever it takes to destroy himself as he would consider himself a monster and only worthy of destruction.

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:12 am

Okay, you choose never to transcend your limitations. That's your choice. And I'm not entirely sure I'd do it either without checking the catches, but it might be a great option for some. Not only humans, but other mortal races can have this option. Perhaps some have lost everything to real monsters, and decide to level the playing field by becoming something powerful enough to stop the real destroyers. Maybe they had a tragedy in their lives and this is not only the best way to forget, but to start anew. Or maybe they're being hunted and slaughtered by bigots in spooky skull costumes. All are reasonable to this world's danger level to consider this as an option.

Cold-Blooded are natural enemies against the undead and necromancers, creatures that use life and twist it. That alone makes them a notch above the normal consideration in my book. It depends on the Cold-Blooded. If you want to appeal to a Goth girl from another world who likes scars and cold people with angst, this is better than tattoos and piercings! And besides, last I checked, some 'people' fighting under the banners of being bastions of humanity lost that defining factor long ago when they turned humans into scared sheep with guns too ignorant to read and make up their own minds. Better to be a creature with a strong sense of morality and your own code that open minded sentients can relate to than monsters with human faces in my humble opinion.

Are you specifically trying to sound xenophobic, or is it a stage persona like Sasha Fierce is to Beyonce'?

Astral Pantheon · Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:59 am

Rahmota wrote:Yes Rifts Earth is a hostile place but you can still get advantages without sacrificing your identity, soul or humanity to become a creature or monster. Body armor, weapons, EBA an aggressive attitude to defend yourself and kill the invading monsters and creatures before they kill you. And the greatest advantage of all associate with other humans. Other strong socities of people and stay away from the creatures and monsters.

As for a bar like that filled with hostile monsters and creatures I would never set foot in it and burn it to the ground if I couldnt avoid it. Monsters like you describe have no place on the human's earth.

If you are not human you are a creature or monster. Its as simple as that. It is better to die a human than to live as a monster.

and

Rahmota wrote:Unfortunately no my name is not Prosek. However I am pro-human, pro-CSA and do stand by my attitude. The CSA are the good guys and the heroes defending and protecting the earth from the scum and villany of the multiverse.
This is Earth. Home and cradle of humanity and all these creatures and monsters are invaders and interlopers that should be dealt with like any other tresspasser. Send them home, imprison them or kill them. I suppose that some may proove themselves equal and capable of being trusted. But there are far far too many in the books that are totally and absolutely unable to be trusted integrated or deserving of anythign other than a plasma enema (assuming they even have a sphincter to do so) as all they want from humanity is a quick snack or sheep or death.

But this was not about letting other outsiders in this post was about taking a human and tainting and perverting them into a creature. To even consider throwing away the precious gift that is your human life and soul to gain just mere power, especially as with this OP the taint and stink of even partial undeath is an aberration an abhorent idea. I mean look at the cold blooded. You have to drink poisonous potions, dark rituals, you are giving up being a living breathing souled being to become a partly undead tainted creature that has at best a tentative grip on your soul. What sort of power are you selling yourself to to gain this power? What sort of strings come along with this? TANSTAAFL anyone?

Maybe I'm just a different type of person who looks for the best options in life. Not only would I become Cold Blooded; if I could find the right Alien Intelligence, I'd become a Witch (Union...Similiar to Ea in Pantheons of the Megaverse). That is just me.

Now, from my human side all I can do is quote this from the Staue of Liberty something for humans, d-bees, and creatures alike (at least in North America) :

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

DtMK, another great post :!:

Rayven · Unread post by **Rayven** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:11 am

Rahmota wrote:Yes Rifts Earth is a hostile place but you can still get advantages without sacrificing your identity, soul or humanity to become a creature or monster. Body armor, weapons, EBA an aggressive attitude to defend yourself and kill the invading monsters and creatures before they kill you. And the greatest advantage of all associate with other humans. Other strong socities of people and stay away from the creatures and monsters.

As for a bar like that filled with hostile monsters and creatures I would never set foot in it and burn it to the ground if I couldnt avoid it. Monsters like you describe have no place on the human's earth.

If you are not human you are a creature or monster. Its as simple as that. It is better to die a human than to live as a monster.

Last time I checked, there was no concept of a "soul" on Rifts Earth. Thus, that is not even something to take into account. As far as sacrificing your identity, how's that work exactly? How can you say that by taking on an advantage so that you can LIVE and continue to be you, that you are sacrificing your identity? You mentioned in another of your posts that you wouldn't even consider cyborg, since it dehumanizes you and that you'd rather swallow a fusion block and die than be anything other than purely human. That's ******* asinine. I challenge everyone here to honestly say that they wouldn't take a bionic leg if their flesh-and-blood leg was lost somehow, be it amputation due to gangrene, or got shot off by the Coalition in a gunfight. I fail to see how that dehumanizes you or taints your "soul" (though, admittedly, I don't and never have believed in a soul....but that's neither here nor there), or even removes your identity (which, by the way, is ingrained into your BRAIN, not your flesh).

protecting the earth from the scum and villany of the multiverse.
This is Earth. Home and cradle of humanity and all these creatures and monsters are invaders and interlopers that should be dealt with like any other tresspasser. Send them home, imprison them or kill them.

Prove to me, definitively, with 0% chance of being wrong, that dragons didn't exist before mankind did on OUR Earth. Prove to me, definitively, with 0% chance of being wrong, that Humans are the only sentient species on Earth. If you can do BOTH of those (without using religion), then MAYBE I'll believe that human/animal hybrids (minotaurs, centaurs, etc) or creatures mutated by the extreme release of magical energy that was caused by the Rifts themselves before the Time of Darkness, are INVADERS and INTERLOPERS, despite having been (by the time of the Seige on Tolkeen) on Earth for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

Yeah. My vote is still for becoming Cold-Blooded, or a witch, or whatever it takes to make sure I don't die by getting spat upon by the wrong guy while walking down the street.

Rahmota · Unread post by **Rahmota** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:58 am

Okay, you choose never to transcend your limitations.

What limitations? There is absoutely nothign that magic can do that technology cannot do just as well if not better. I see no limitations in being human. I do not feel limited by being human. If you see being human as limiting then I am sorry that your imagination is so limited.

Not only humans, but other mortal races can have this option

Yeah i was noticing some of the overpowered or munchkiny kind of ideas that where being loated around. thats another beef I have with this. Just another way to get some kind of power trip out of things to try and win the game. That is one of the bad thing about Rifts there are a too many munchkiny freak show creatures running around. You can't turn a page in a book without finding some "new" species that just happened to wander by or was rediscovered or somesuch BS. When all it is is an excuse to get bigger stats, more powers or be have the most bonuses. In the game I stand by my assertion that I would never ever trust a character that had that perversion done to themselves as if they are willing to betray and demean their own species they would be willing to perform any other sort of backstabbing evil.

Are you specifically trying to sound xenophobic

Yep In my games the CSA are the good guys. They are the heroes fighting agains the forces of darkness and evil. Now I admit I have softened them up a little bit in my world so they are not quite like nazis and are more like right wing republicans but still they are living in a harsh world and have to take harsh measures sometimes. *shrug* But they are still heroes defending innocent humans from the depredations of monsters and creatures that would prey upon them.

Sorry the Statue of Liberty was destroyed and rebuilt as a mockery by those damn dirty apes! And it only applies to humans anyhow.

Last time I checked, there was no concept of a "soul" on Rifts Earth. Thus, that is not even something to take into account. As far as sacrificing your identity, how's that work exactly? How can you say that by taking on an advantage so that you can LIVE and continue to be you, that you are sacrificing your identity? You mentioned in another of your posts that you wouldn't even consider cyborg, since it dehumanizes you and that you'd rather swallow a fusion block and die than be anything other than purely human. That's **** asinine. I challenge everyone here to honestly say that they wouldn't take a bionic leg if their flesh-and-blood leg was lost somehow, be it amputation due to gangrene, or got shot off by the Coalition in a gunfight. I fail to see how that dehumanizes you or taints your "soul" (though, admittedly, I don't and never have believed in a soul....but that's neither here nor there), or even removes your identity (which, by the way, is ingrained into your BRAIN, not your flesh).

What you are is a part of the identity of who you are. I am a human male. Not some freak creature out of the rifts wanting to eat people, not some dark half undead monster. And honestly bionic replacement, biogenetic cloning, those are both replacements I would consider before a last ditch cybernetic replacement that would reduce my humanity. That is one thing I like about the shadowrun game system, they have an essence stat that measures and shows how dehumanizing cybernetic replacement is. How dangerous it is for a lifeform to hack of a chunk of good quality living tissue and replace it with a cold hard unfeeling inhuman chunk of metal and plastic.

Prove to me, definitively, with 0% chance of being wrong, that dragons didn't exist before mankind did on OUR Earth. Prove to me, definitively, with 0% chance of being wrong, that Humans are the only sentient species on Earth. If you can do BOTH of those (without using religion), then MAYBE I'll believe that human/animal hybrids (minotaurs, centaurs, etc) or creatures mutated by the extreme release of magical energy that was caused by the Rifts themselves before the Time of Darkness, are INVADERS and INTERLOPERS, despite having been (by the time of the Seige on Tolkeen) on Earth for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

Well lets see archaeology has never dug up any fossils of centaurs, minotaurs or dragons. There are no creatures still alive today that are the evolutionary decndents of such creatures so for me the case is closed. There have never been real dragons, *taurs or elves or any of the fantasy or other creatures on the Rifts Earth on this world.

Rayven · Unread post by **Rayven** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:07 am

Rahmota wrote:
Prove to me, definitively, with 0% chance of being wrong, that dragons didn't exist before mankind did on OUR Earth. Prove to me, definitively, with 0% chance of being wrong, that Humans are the only sentient species on Earth. If you can do BOTH of those (without using religion), then MAYBE I'll believe that human/animal hybrids (minotaurs, centaurs, etc) or creatures mutated by the extreme release of magical energy that was caused by the Rifts themselves before the Time of Darkness, are INVADERS and INTERLOPERS, despite having been (by the time of the Seige on Tolkeen) on Earth for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

Well lets see archaeology has never dug up any fossils of centaurs, minotaurs or dragons. There are no creatures still alive today that are the evolutionary decndents of such creatures so for me the case is closed. There have never been real dragons, *taurs or elves or any of the fantasy or other creatures on the Rifts Earth on this world.

That's not proof. Archaeology is a relatively new science, and we are still discovering things. There are dinosaur fossils for new creatures being discovered every few months. Also, there are still places in this world that man has never set foot upon. I'm sure I could find the article about the skeleton of a hobbit that was discovered last year with a little digging, so who's to say there aren't elves? And dragon fossils HAVE been found in China. You have yet to PROVE to me that humans are the only sentient species, and you have yet to PROVE that there weren't "mythic" creatures before humanity. All you have said is "we haven't found them yet," which is a far cry from "nope, never happened."

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:57 pm

Haha I just realized that I never posted if I would or not.

You bet I would. And call me paranoid but even then I would outfit myself with the following layers of MDC:
NG Stalker suit
Naruni NE-CS1 nightsuit
Triax Plainclothes jumpsuit w/hood
Naruni NE-SA40 "Blackfist" Stealth PA*
Triax Plainclothes Trenchcoat (for looks

)
Naruni N-F50A Superheavy Force Field*

*Both wired to run full time off of a nuke powered grav pack and revert to battery/eclip power for operation when the grav pack is in use.

It would be a good idea for humans to layer like this but they would quickly overheat with those 3 layers between them and the PA cooling systems. Cold blooded wouldn't have that problem.

Astral Pantheon · Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:14 am

Rahmota wrote:Sorry the Statue of Liberty was destroyed and rebuilt as a mockery by those damn dirty apes! And it only applies to humans anyhow.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Where does it say just applies to humans???

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:28 am

Ahhh, don't worry about it Astral Pantheon. Besides, do you really want to get into an argument with a guy that said he wants to burn down a D-Bee friendly bar and throws Cold-Bloodeds in the same league with demons and necromancers?

Astral Pantheon · Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:44 am

DtMK wrote:Ahhh, don't worry about it Astral Pantheon. Besides, do you really want to get into an argument with a guy that said he wants to burn down a D-Bee friendly bar and throws Cold-Bloodeds in the same league with demons and necromancers?

Your right, DtMK. I get a little defensive when "talking" about freedoms, equal rights, and similiar topics. All sentient life forms should have equal rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (But thats me).

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:57 am

Hear hear!

Rayven · Unread post by **Rayven** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:24 am

Astral Pantheon wrote:
DtMK wrote:Ahhh, don't worry about it Astral Pantheon. Besides, do you really want to get into an argument with a guy that said he wants to burn down a D-Bee friendly bar and throws Cold-Bloodeds in the same league with demons and necromancers?

Your right, DtMK. I get a little defensive when "talking" about freedoms, equal rights, and similiar topics. All sentient life forms should have equal rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (But thats me).

I'll drink to that!

Wait...better make sure this is a human only bar. Don't want someone burning it down before I finish my whiskey.

runebeo · Unread post by **runebeo** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:37 am

I wouldn't mind becoming one but I rather become a Tattoo Man or Maxi-Man. The down side is the whole Atlantis slavery part, yet you would likely retain allot more of humanity & personally and since I'm already covered in tattoo I'm half way there. You got to love it when a Chiang-Ku Tattoo Master open a parlour in your neighbourhood and gives nothing but the best to his favourite customers. Close combat-wise few classes can deal with Maxi-Man able to conjure up blow worms, T-Rex, Spinosarus, Demonrunner, Phantom Wolves & Kreeghor Bloodhound, while shooting blinding tattoo arrows at you.

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:34 pm

True, those have advantages. But a being that can take hits, even be decapitated and come back after taking a dirt nap? You don't want an enemy you can't kill!

Daniel Stoker · Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:05 pm

Rahmota wrote:Well lets see archaeology has never dug up any fossils of centaurs, minotaurs or dragons. There are no creatures still alive today that are the evolutionary decndents of such creatures so for me the case is closed. There have never been real dragons, *taurs or elves or any of the fantasy or other creatures on the Rifts Earth on this world.

Well not on our earth, but if Rifts is in fact the future version of Beyond the Supernatural (or a version of it) then you'd be wrong as all kinds of monsters and creatures lived there. Plus there's the no head race in South America that is a supposed to be a native of earth that lived here/been native.

Daniel Stoker

Rahmota · Unread post by **Rahmota** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:34 pm

Well the statue of Liberty was built by humans for humans for a country that by the time of rifts no longer exists except maybe in the image of the CSA. So I'll give you it may or may not apply to the monsters and creatures but its a moot point anyhow as it was destroyed.

At least by the time of rifts humans will have put aside their petty differences among themselves based on irrelevences as skin color, religion or sexual orientation in face of the threat from the creatures and monsters trying to kill, eat or enslave all humans.

DtMK · Unread post by **DtMK** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:04 pm

The Statue of Liberty was damaged, but repaired somewhat by the Madhaven mutants. It may not be perfect, but it's something. And now their prayers are answered, as Isis is now the power behind the Mighty Lady.

As far as no prejudice against religion? Yes, they still do. Some people need to read in order to follow their beliefs, the CS frown upon that kind of thing. And of course they still have prejudice based on abilities like psionic potential, skin color matters, Cold-Blooded have a blue tinge to their skin so that's right out too. Sexual orientation? I'm sure the CS might spread rumors or exploit the sexuality of some D-Bees and mages to beware the ever flamboyant Chantreuse Mage. Hell, they even have prejudice against the follicaly challenged for fear that they may be Psi-Stalkers! Oh, and Cold-Blooded are naturally predators against supernatural monsters as well. You know, like the CS Janissary who have D-Bee DNA spliced into them before they were born and indoctrinated to kill anything different than themselves. At least the Cold-Blooded have a choice and a say in the matter in my opinion.

Rayven · Unread post by **Rayven** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:21 pm

Rahmota wrote:Well the statue of Liberty was built by humans for humans for a country that by the time of rifts no longer exists except maybe in the image of the CSA. So I'll give you it may or may not apply to the monsters and creatures but its a moot point anyhow as it was destroyed.

Moot. adj. Up for debate or argument.

So...you're saying that it's arguable whether or not the Statue of Liberty applies to anybody who isn't human. That makes sense, since the statue was never, as you say, "made for humans." It was made for the residents of The United States of America. So, are you going to tell me that Dwarves cannot reside in, and therefore be residents of, the US?

Here's another question for you, that has nothing to do with any of my past arguments. You said you allow "near-humans." What exactly do you consider a "near-human"? You don't allow power, so human mages are out, and thus apparently not "near-human." You don't allow borgs or vampires, both of which WERE human for the majority of their lives (ok, maybe not a "majority" in the case of some vampires, but definitely for all newer vampires). You run an all Coalition game, which alludes to you allowing Dog Boys, who were never human. I'm just curious as to where you draw the line.

Rahmota · Unread post by **Rahmota** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:25 am

A near human is a living, sdc structure sentient life form with a humanoid basic body shape and limited inherent powers. Juicers, mages (but not witches as they are slaves and pawn of an extra planar being) dogboys, psychics etc... are all classified as near human. As human is the measure against which all other beigns are considered the closer to human nominal the being is the more likely it is to fall into a near human category. being undead, having an MDC body or MDC inherent abilities, or other equivalent considerations causes the subject to be classified as either a creature or a monster depending on if it can peacefully coexist with humans.

And considering how there is no US in Rifts no Dwarves cannot be citizens of the US. No one in Rifts can be.

At least the Cold-Blooded have a choice and a say in the matter

Yep a choice to betray their species and end their lives to become a monster.

Would You Become Cold-Blooded??