New Government uses Dimensional Travel

[Astral Pantheon]

The use of Dimensional Travel is a very overlooked power. The high end technology in the Three Galaxies could leap any small 3rd world Power (Government) on Rifts Earth into a 1st place slot almost over night. Temporal Wizard and Warriors could secure off world resources and set up operations offworld. New magics, new "alien" allies, and so much more could be gained from offworld travel.


What would you focus on if you where a New Government...Resources, Medicines, Mystics (Magic & Psychic powers/items) Stuff, Alliances, High end Technology or something else??


*Post Away!!!*

[Nightmaster]

The number one issue to my mind would be reliability and expense. Is it easy to open the gate to exactly the location you want and exactly the world you want? How much does it take to open the gate for how long?

If you can't open it reliably, for a significant amount of time and for reasonable cost then it won't be cost effective. If it's not reliable then there isn't much point in it as you will find it very difficult to collect any resources. If you can't keep it open for long you end up with a huge bottleneck on transportation. If the cost is too high to open it then the cost/benefit ratio goes down.

I think the example he put pretty much includes magic in the equation of dimensional transportation. He even mentioned Temporal Wizards/Raiders (the later would be a little trick to deal with).

So with that in mind I think the issue of reliability and expense is resolved. Also you forget that you dont really need to keep a portal open for too long to pass a reasonable amount of goods (if that is what you want). Just remember that a Dimensional Portal ritual open a Rift for 1 minute per level of the caster. If you make preparations in advance you can pass as much resources in a 5 minutes windows as you wish and what you will be using to make all that is just PPE.

Now if I was a ruler I would send my agents to Center to buy books. Lots of books. Most of then from book stores. The type of books? Medical/Technology ones, the same type you can buy for college students.

Just think about it. You step inside Center with some universal goods (gold, silver, precious stones, etc) sell then and after that buy as many books on mechanical engineering as you can (books are really cheap compared to weapons and gear), then you open a rifts back. Now you have a much more advanced database on mechanical engineering than the CS/NGR or even the Republic of Japan have access to. Repeat the process for over some months and you can increase the tech level of your nation by leaps and bonds.

Resources would be my next target but for that I would need to find a planet (in my or other dimension) free of sentient beings so that I can begin mine that world from its minerals without needing to negotiate anything with anyone.

Weapons, Armor and Gear would be the leats of my desires since money to purchase then in Center of other places would not be easy to get and the amount one would be able to get would not be large enough to be any diference in the world of Rifts.

On a overall analysis if one government in Rifts Earth begin to use dimensional travel as a way to secure more technology and resources and they are lucky to not stumble on the Splugorth or anyother dimensional conquerer, then they could get in the same tech level as the NGR in less than 8 months but without resources or the infrastructure to put in pratice the new knowledge they acquired they would still be behind for years to come.

[Astral Pantheon]

The number one issue to my mind would be reliability and expense. Is it easy to open the gate to exactly the location you want and exactly the world you want? How much does it take to open the gate for how long?

If you can't open it reliably, for a significant amount of time and for reasonable cost then it won't be cost effective. If it's not reliable then there isn't much point in it as you will find it very difficult to collect any resources. If you can't keep it open for long you end up with a huge bottleneck on transportation. If the cost is too high to open it then the cost/benefit ratio goes down.

Darkorinth, sorry I wasn't clear but Nightmaster is correct. You have magic at your disposal either temporal wizard/warriors or a small pyramid (Stone Master) or even a few Shifters with D-Portal Spells. Now collecting the resources is a different matter and where your collecting the resources would matter. Nightmaster, thats a good idea about the books; it would be nice to hire 1-2 aliens to explain a few of the advanced books (There is a difference in reading a book and fully understanding the content of a book). I myself have mixed feelings on mining but agree to free of sentient beings. Mostly my mixed feelings come from if you already have access to magic or Warlocks then coal, water, wood, clay, stone, lead, and Iron can all be created with a little meditation along with repeated castings.

[Shadow Wyrm]

For my canon of Tolkeen, I have them with a few off world allies from the Aliens Unlimited book. They also have off world bases for resorses. It works great and it makes sense.

[taalismn]

I was thinking more of the resource gathering angle, but looking over the orginal post that's not what you are going for. .

I use that for my PS continiuum; it might be too dangerous to go across an ocean to get required materials(like rare earths), but if they can find a reliable Rifting sequence, and get themselves a path to a dimension where they can set up a base camp to mine the stuff themselves, all the better.
Such outposts try to be as self-reliant as possible, since you can't always rely on a quick D-Gate home every time you need a new roll of toilet paper.

[Shadow Wyrm]

Off world resource gathering is probibly the best use of D-magic, IMHO. In Rift's Japan, one of the island kingdoms, can't recall which on has off-world mining and in makes them a notable power block.

[taalismn]

It's Takamatsu...Their ace in the hole is access to an alternate Earth that appears uninhabited, and they're harvesting/collecting oil, timber, and presumably other resources as well from there. The prosperity they've reaped from such a resource/steady source of supplies is part of what has Otomo angling to take down/over Takamatsu for themselves.

[azazel1024]

Even if you can get the information consider what is open tech and what isn't. Some of the engineering, computer engineering, EE, ME, weapons tech, etc you probably could find books on. Actual current military gear your going to have to buy and reverse engineer, hire engineers who designed it, etc.

As for reverse engineering it, much would be beyond rift's engineers abilities to understand or duplicate, at least without a lot more related research, etc first.

Even with the advanced information you're going to have to build machines, to build machines to build the machines to build the advanced equipment. So that also means researching new and advanced production machines, prototyping machines, etc, etc.

Its not like you can go "Oh, wow that is how high intensity lasers work, I'll be cranking them out next week!" Its more of a "Oh, that is how they work, and that is how that nanocircuitry etcher works and that is how the machine the builds a nanocircuitry etcher works and how the machine that builds that one works, etc"

If you have a very advanced new nation on rifts Earth with some good resources you probably could get one hell of a leg up, but it would probably still take you several years to a couple of decades to duplicate a lot of the tech. If you found some 'out dated' tech manuals, diagrams, engineering plans, etc you probably could get a faster leg up, but it would be backward tech compared to what PW normally has available, though possibly just beyond cutting edge for Rifts Earth.

To a degree it would be like someone from Victorian England trying to research how to build 20/21st century technology. They are going to need a lot more then the technical manuals for how a Iowa class battleship is made to be able to build one.
-Matt

[Shark_Force]

it wouldn't surprise me to discover that someone in phase world has actually devised a step-by-step plan for the theoretical process of improving a civilisation's technology level 1 step at a time.

particularly with organisations like the CCW around.

but if nothing else, someone has probably done something like that for a university thesis or equivalent

it may not even cost you anything more than the equivalent of internet access

[Nightmaster]

Even if you can get the information consider what is open tech and what isn't. Some of the engineering, computer engineering, EE, ME, weapons tech, etc you probably could find books on. Actual current military gear your going to have to buy and reverse engineer, hire engineers who designed it, etc.

As for reverse engineering it, much would be beyond rift's engineers abilities to understand or duplicate, at least without a lot more related research, etc first.

True but my focus as a ruler is not weapon tech. Weapon tech is tricky to get your hands on so I target more easy to acquire technology.

Books and tech manuals on Medicine, Energy Production, Electronics and etc are easy to buy (as it would in any good book store) and the points in the books if you understand you can hire teachers to explain it to you.

If you focus in those things, weapon tech eventually comes around naturally. After all your overall tech level have increased and if you stop to think about it, weapon tech is just the other technologies (optics, nuclear physics, etc) applied to war.

Even with the advanced information you're going to have to build machines, to build machines to build the machines to build the advanced equipment. So that also means researching new and advanced production machines, prototyping machines, etc, etc.

Its not like you can go "Oh, wow that is how high intensity lasers work, I'll be cranking them out next week!" Its more of a "Oh, that is how they work, and that is how that nanocircuitry etcher works and that is how the machine the builds a nanocircuitry etcher works and how the machine that builds that one works, etc"

That is why I said that without the infrastructure to put in practice what your scientists and engineers have learned from the books and databases you brought from Center your nation would still be years behind any of the major powers of Rifts Earth.

If you have a very advanced new nation on rifts Earth with some good resources you probably could get one hell of a leg up, but it would probably still take you several years to a couple of decades to duplicate a lot of the tech. If you found some 'out dated' tech manuals, diagrams, engineering plans, etc you probably could get a faster leg up, but it would be backward tech compared to what PW normally has available, though possibly just beyond cutting edge for Rifts Earth.

To a degree it would be like someone from Victorian England trying to research how to build 20/21st century technology. They are going to need a lot more then the technical manuals for how a Iowa class battleship is made to be able to build one.
-Matt

More or less. The key thing here is TIME.

If you have time to learn and put into actual use what you learned from the books and thus enhance the infrastructure of your nation then you will catch up pretty fast and in little time will surpass the CS/NGR/Republic of Japan in several fields.

Even a Victorian England guy could learn a lot from books of the 20th century and then apply it to his poor nation. All he need is time to study and someone to explain/teach him what he didnt understand.

[taalismn]

Even a Victorian England guy could learn a lot from books of the 20th century and then apply it to his poor nation. All he need is time to study and someone to explain/teach him what he didnt understand.

"HELP! I've been kidnapped by mad Prussians from an alternate 1900, who are forcing me at gunpoint to explain modern electronics and transistor theory!"

[Nightmaster]

Even a Victorian England guy could learn a lot from books of the 20th century and then apply it to his poor nation. All he need is time to study and someone to explain/teach him what he didnt understand.

"HELP! I've been kidnapped by mad Prussians from an alternate 1900, who are forcing me at gunpoint to explain modern electronics and transistor theory!"

LOLLL

[Astral Pantheon]

I would be collecting knowledge but as I said before a few Alien teachers wouldn't be a bad idea. I did post focus on there would be nothing wrong with one of your teams also looking for weapons and seeking allies in the vast Megaverse.


Alright, I guess I need to focus the the question a little more.

If your Rifts government had 10 teams able to go off world --- What would you seek out (Resources, Medicines, Mystics (Magic & Psychic powers/items) Stuff, Alliances, High end Technology or something else) ????


I know two teams would be dimensional "Raider" teams against the bad Splugorth and similiar Beings...but must be careful and never come back to HQ directly after a raid.

[taalismn]

I would be collecting knowledge but as I said before a few Alien teachers wouldn't be a bad idea. I did post focus on there would be nothing wrong with one of your teams also looking for weapons and seeking allies in the vast Megaverse.


Alright, I guess I need to focus the the question a little more.

If your Rifts government had 10 teams able to go off world --- What would you seek out (Resources, Medicines, Mystics (Magic & Psychic powers/items) Stuff, Alliances, High end Technology or something else) ????


I know two teams would be dimensional "Raider" teams against the bad Splugorth and similiar Beings...but must be careful and never come back to HQ directly after a raid.

Send 'em to Center and go shopping in the duty-free malls...

[azazel1024]

Sounds like we're on the same page. You certainly could get head and shoulders (and maybe torso and waist) above the other nations of Rifts Earth, but it would probably take a few years and maybe even a few decades to really get light years ahead doing all of the practical development with the research taken care for you in advance.
-Matt

[rat_bastard]

This is actually the theme for my upcoming New Alexandria game. The New Alexandrian government has many shifters and a half dozen stone pyramids at their disposal and a desperate need for new technology to help them compensate for the fact that they have overextended their reach.

In the game the entire island of Atlantis has disappeared without a trace or warning leaving The alliance of nations headed by New Alexandria as the De-facto power on earth, if it does not tear itself apart first or get conquered again. However The people of earth don't know much about other dimensional powers. And as a result they have very little idea of where to send people to exchange knowledge and ideas.

More on this later, I'm a little busy right now.

[Astral Pantheon]

Sounds like we're on the same page. You certainly could get head and shoulders (and maybe torso and waist) above the other nations of Rifts Earth, but it would probably take a few years and maybe even a few decades to really get light years ahead doing all of the practical development with the research taken care for you in advance.
-Matt

Azazel1024, you are correct. If your team could get ahold of some Mechanoid technology or a rogue Mechanoid Brain your nation in a few decades would rival or surpass many on Earth. A example is the Mechanoid Plasma Generator with a lifespan of 600 years

[taalismn]

Sounds like we're on the same page. You certainly could get head and shoulders (and maybe torso and waist) above the other nations of Rifts Earth, but it would probably take a few years and maybe even a few decades to really get light years ahead doing all of the practical development with the research taken care for you in advance.
-Matt

Azazel1024, you are correct. If your team could get ahold of some Mechanoid technology or a rogue Mechanoid Brain your nation in a few decades would rival or surpass many on Earth. A example is the Mechanoid Plasma Generator with a lifespan of 600 years

Used that in the early stages of developing Paladin Steel...after the Mechanoids took over a factory to start manufacturing some of their gear, the locals managed to seize it back and haver been trying to make sense of some of the hardware and equipment that was halfway converted....so far, they've managed to kludge up Brute weapons modules for use on their own giant robots and vehicles..

Of course, to my dismay, I've misplaced my copy of Rifts: Mechanoids...

[azazel1024]

You seem to read to many conspiracy books. The skull and bones organization doesn't resemble the coalition at all and the free masons don't really practice magic (or attempt to), certainly not as it relates to magic in rifts, PFRPG, etc.

Now if you want to say they do in the context of your games, run with it, it can be fun.
-Matt

[Khanibal]

If the CCW treats teachers as well (lol) as the U.S. it shouldn't be too hard to wheedle a few to come to some backwater world (i.e. rifts earth) and start teaching children from k-12 and then either send the best of these kids to a decent PW university or buy the texts and hire more teachers to teach then the engineering, mining, et c.

[Nightmaster]

If the CCW treats teachers as well (lol) as the U.S. it shouldn't be too hard to wheedle a few to come to some backwater world (i.e. rifts earth) and start teaching children from k-12 and then either send the best of these kids to a decent PW university or buy the texts and hire more teachers to teach then the engineering, mining, et c.

I think the CCW treats teachers a lot better than the US or any other nation today.

But yes the idea of hiring teachers from PW to teach Rifts Earth natives what they cant understand in the books would work great and in a few years (3+) your nation could very well be the new power on the block in your region, on par with the NGR or better.

The only problem with all those scenarious is the surveilance of other nations over yours. If in NA, the CS would have to be keep in the dark about from where you are getting that knowledge (if you dont manage to stop then from knowing that is) and later prevent then from attacking you to either stop you from rising to power or to get their hands on all that knowledge.

[Khanibal]

Can you imagine being a teacher in the C.S.?
TOMMY! What are you doing with a book? Put that down! Now class pick up your calculators and PDD's, it's time for history (sic).

[Shark_Force]

Can you imagine being a teacher in the C.S.?
TOMMY! What are you doing with a book? Put that down! Now class pick up your calculators and PDD's, it's time for history (sic).

teachers in the CS are actually probably treated quite well. this is because they'll only be teaching the handful of upper-class citizens, and those upper-class citizens are only going to accept the best for their kids.

the average kid in the CS probably doesn't have an actual teacher (teachers can be asked questions, which is not desirable). they probably learn everything they do learn from TV or it's equivalent. i doubt there's much formal education, because the kind of education you get from formal education is not generally what the CS wants the average citizen to have. the CS doesn't want you to actually study history or geography or science. all of those courses are really useful for someone who is being educated to think for themselves, which isn't what the CS wants at all. the CS version of chemistry (apart from the previously mentioned upper-class citizens) is probably just learning how to use the tools and equipment used in chemistry labs so that the actual elite can expect you to know how to centrifuge those samples when you're told to, and likewise with most other forms of education. for the average citizen, 'education' likely means they know how to weld, or drive a truck, or how to farm, and such.

i mean, if the average CS citizen was being offered a legitimate education, the CS wouldn't have to be nearly as terrified of rogue scholars as they are. the whole reason these people are considered criminals is because they actually do teach people in such a manner as to encourage them to think for themselves. they scare the crap out of the CS elite specifically *because* they offer higher education to the masses.

[Mallak's Place]

Can you imagine being a teacher in the C.S.?
TOMMY! What are you doing with a book? Put that down! Now class pick up your calculators and PDD's, it's time for history (sic).

Half the Population of Chi-Town has the Speed reading Psi-Power and don't even know it.. Comes from drinking the water.

[V-Origin]

This is actually the theme for my upcoming New Alexandria game. The New Alexandrian government has many shifters and a half dozen stone pyramids at their disposal and a desperate need for new technology to help them compensate for the fact that they have overextended their reach.

In the game the entire island of Atlantis has disappeared without a trace or warning leaving The alliance of nations headed by New Alexandria as the De-facto power on earth, if it does not tear itself apart first or get conquered again. However The people of earth don't know much about other dimensional powers. And as a result they have very little idea of where to send people to exchange knowledge and ideas.

More on this later, I'm a little busy right now.

Ha! This is how my mercenary city of New Tolkeen got started off too.

It had permanent, stable dimensional rifts to centre, UWW and the CCW, not to mention the godly dimensions. They have some "special" agreements with UWW and the CCW to become full blown member planets of UWW and CWW but without any of the UWW and CCW's restrictions. Ahem..

Best of all, it has signed a contract with the pleasure planet corporations to become the first pleasure planet city on Rifts Earth which will ensure lots of money coming in. In fact, because the city does not have CCW's restrictions, New Tolkeen is aiming to become the biggest and baddest pleasure city ever known in Rifts Universe.

[Mallak's Place]

Our Group built a small pyramid close to the city of High Stone, several times a day it opens a Dimentional portal perpendicular to the floor to the Garbage Pit. We then drop a Giant Bucket Crane and lift out about 5 tons of material that it drops on the floor after the portal closes. we then send in workers wearing full EBA to sort through the stuff for usable objects and materials.

[Nightmaster]

i mean, if the average CS citizen was being offered a legitimate education, the CS wouldn't have to be nearly as terrified of rogue scholars as they are. the whole reason these people are considered criminals is because they actually do teach people in such a manner as to encourage them to think for themselves. they scare the crap out of the CS elite specifically *because* they offer higher education to the masses.

If you take your time to read the timeline presented in the SoT book 1, you will notice that emperor Prosek is in charge in the last 33 years and that the doctrine about the books and education only began after the destruction of the Library of Chi-Town and that happened 7 years after he become chairman and after he become emperor for life. That makes the doctrine start about 28 years before the present day in the Rifts setting.

Before emperor Prosek rose to power the CS neither prohibit or encouraged education. Remember that people had free access to the Library in Chi-Town and yet the number of people that were iliterate was very high. That portrait a society that dont have a public education system but at the same time dindt stop the citizen to try to achieve a better education. Its similar to most of Europe in the late 18th century and the begining of 19th century, where one was to pay to have access to formal education in the way of hired teachers or selective schools.

The only other option were church schools that dindt offered more than simple read/write and mathematics to the children of most small towns. If one wished better education for himself or his children then he would have to pay. The CS most probably was this way before emperor Prosek begin the burning of books and hunting of teachers.

That (IMHO) means that despite all that the number of people that is actually literated in the CS is greater than one would imagine. Remember also what is said in the Adventure sourcebooks about the reasons people are not accepted as citizens in the CS if they know how to read and write, that people that are literated normally teach that to their children and the CS dont want that "disease" to spread.

Because of that is the reason rogue scholars are so feared by the CS. If the number of literated people in the CS were so small they would not really fear then, after all the number of people that could be influenced by their teachings would be really restricted and the CS could easily contain such treats. Now if the number of non-upper citizens that still know how to read/write were more larger (28 years only the doctrine is in activity) then each rogue scholar began to really pose as a treat since their words could spread very fast if not contained imediatly.

My guess is that the number of non-upper class citizens that know how to read/write in the CS is about 25-30% but that number is slowing droping thanks to the doctrine but it is still high enough to make teachers not authorized by the CS to be considered a treat.

In another 20 years that number will be more low but still a problem for the CS leaders, after all reducing the literacy rates of the population take time since most parents that know how to read/write would teach their children and the CS would not shot their own proverbial feet by saying in the schools across the nation that the children should not listen to their parents and etc etc.... That would cause a real social problem since the government would be saying that they (the parents) dont have saying in how their own children should be raised. This would only spark dissent and lay ground for the begining of civil unrest and those are things that the CS leaders fear like vampire fears the holy cross.