How would YOU.. Change Palladiums Vampire ?

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:33 pm

If you were given the opportunity to change the Vampire OCC into a real Powerhouse with different weakness's what would you do ?

How exactly would you change the Vampire ?

rat_bastard · Unread post by **rat_bastard** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:37 pm

I would make them sparkle in daylight instead of taking damage.

Ziggurat the Eternal · Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:02 pm

rat_bastard wrote:I would make them sparkle in daylight instead of taking damage.

if i wanted them to be a power house, i would do this, and make them weak to fire rather than water. as you may have noticed, fire does not cover approx. 70% of our planet.

Really though, I wouldn't change them. They are powerhouses, especially if you aren't ready to fight them.

Anthar · Unread post by **Anthar** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:06 pm

I would take away their vulnerability to water and allow a wood stake through the heart and silver to kill them.
Oh, and they would only be attracted to teenage girls.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:11 pm

@ the responces !!

@ the twink vampires newly created by a franchise that rhymes with highlight ..

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:23 pm

The only thing I am not fnd of is the VI part of it. Everything else I like for themost part. Maybe up the number of hit points a bit, make the secondary more human like in order to pass as a human if neccessary....thats about it.

Shadow Wyrm · Unread post by **Shadow Wyrm** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:25 pm

I've totally ditched the cross thing in my game,works great.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:45 pm

SamtheDagger wrote:I'd give them auto-dodge--like juicer and crazy auto-dodge, so that not only does dodging not use up an action, they can dodge attacks from behind and attacks they are unaware of. I'd also ditch the vulnerable to squirt guns and water cannons and make them vulnerable only to holy water. I'd keep the "cannot be immersed in running water" and "cannot cross rivers" rules though. That way the canon history about vampires being rare in Lone Star due to the Rio Grande wouldn't be affected. I'd probably also remove the rule of them being hurt by the mere shadow of a cross, but keep the rule of them being kept at bay by crosses and garlic.

One thing I don't like about Palladium vampire rules is the rarity of vampire masters. I'd probably change the rule about there being one master for every 1000 vampires to one master for every 100 vampires. I might even add a different caste of vampire, the head master (or something like that) of which there is still only one per 1000 vampires. Head masters wouldn't be vulnerable to holy water, nor would they be kept at bay by crosses or garlic. They'd only be vulnerable to wooden stakes (not splinters, so rail-guns using bits of wood--wooden weapons wouldn't work unless they pierced the heart), consecrated silver and sunlight. Plus they would be able to cross running water as long as they aren't immersed. Head masters would have even better bonuses to I.S.P., attributes and HP, as well as even faster rates of regeneration. They would be very difficult to kill.

hmm I am liking this way....

Proseksword · Unread post by **Proseksword** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:56 pm

Yeah, I like Palladium's Vampires better than anyone else's. I'm tired of Vampire's being cliché and overly powerful. Give me Vampires that die by supersoaker anyday!

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:51 pm

2 changes.

1) No damage from crosses or cross shaped shadows (that was just silly). Though they will still react to them with pain and HF as described if they are touched to vampire flesh and will keep vampires at bay as described.

2) Regular water does squat, Holy water does damage regular water does in canon.

Grell · Unread post by **Grell** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:51 am

rat_bastard wrote:I would make them sparkle in daylight instead of taking damage.

Dang, too fast! That was what I was going to say! :-(

I guess I'd make them play baseball because being athletic is so important to being undead.

As for actual changes? I'd give them auto dodge and juicer-level combat bonuses, but that's about it. As written, they play fine from my perspective though.

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:29 am

What about simply adding +10 to physical attributes .. and granting them auto-dodge / auto-parry ?

With out adding any other powers or taking away any weakness's ..

I feel that doing the above .. would in fact make the Palladium Vampire's an actual threat ..

Even with the rediculasly illogical weakness's granted to the Palladium Vampire's .

Esckey · Unread post by **Esckey** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:00 pm

I would lessen the damage water/rain does. Being out in the rain should be a pain not death, but giving them cement boots and letting him swim with the fishes should. And that nonsense about not wanting to cross over water.

Preacher · Unread post by **Preacher** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:39 pm

Thinyser wrote:2 changes.

1) No damage from crosses or cross shaped shadows (that was just silly). Though they will still react to them with pain and HF as described if they are touched to vampire flesh and will keep vampires at bay as described.

2) Regular water does squat, Holy water does damage regular water does in canon.

Yeah this is what I do in my game as the regular water thing is Lame as is the shadow of a cross doing damage. :ok:

The auto dodge idea has merit as well but I will have to vote it in to my game or at least get everyone's opinion before I implement it.

Danger · Unread post by **Danger** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:43 pm

I would make them all gorgeous and filled with angst.

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:22 pm

Danger wrote:I would make them all gorgeous and filled with angst.

Gorgeous, Angsty, Sparkly, but very pale faced and an inate love for baseball during thunderstorms....

Danger · Unread post by **Danger** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:25 pm

jaymz wrote:
Danger wrote:I would make them all gorgeous and filled with angst.

Gorgeous, Angsty, Sparkly, but very pale faced and an inate love for baseball during thunderstorms....

So much angst, if you hit them with a stick, it would spill forth like candy from a pinata.

Danger · Unread post by **Danger** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:24 pm

Darkorinth wrote:
jaymz wrote:
Danger wrote:I would make them all gorgeous and filled with angst.

Gorgeous, Angsty, Sparkly, but very pale faced and an inate love for baseball during thunderstorms....

Angst is fine, gorgeous I expect, but any damn vampire that sparkles in any game I play in I will personally set on fire. Repeatedly. I don't care if vampires don't burn, that is what gasoline is for. I will make them cry.

Remind me not to play my Elvis-Impersonator rhinestone jumpsuit-wearing Vampire in any of your games.

dark brandon · Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:48 pm

Auto-dodge, remove any doubt that they can and do wear armor including EBA and make the shape change one action or instant.

runebeo · Unread post by **runebeo** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:52 am

I enjoy how Palladium vampires works, without the water weakness their would be noway to stop them from taking over the planet. I would like to see more ways to become a free willed vampire like the Necromancer's ritual & Undead curse in Land of the Damned. I also would like to see some Secondary vampires retain some of their spell casting or psionic powers like the Master vampires & necromancers do.

Subjugator · Unread post by **Subjugator** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:28 am

I'd give them:

1. Auto-dodge.
2. Sixth sense
3. Telepathy
4. Greater strength
5. Remove most of the invulnerabilities to damage and odd vulnerabilities and make them MD creatures instead (still vulnerable to holy water and sunlight)
6. Increase their physical speed by about 50 or 60
7. Increase their rate of regeneration (yes, increase)
8. When they're converted to MD creatures, add about 150 MD to each of them on top of their existing hit points.

/Sub

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:46 am

Wouldn't....IMHO, Vampires get ENTIRELY too much press...time to encourage some other inhuman monstrousity, instead....

jaymz · Unread post by **jaymz** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:10 am

Darkorinth wrote:
taalismn wrote:Wouldn't....IMHO, Vampires get ENTIRELY too much press...time to encourage some other inhuman monstrousity, instead....

Seconded.

I say bring out the opponents of the ....... TOXIC AVENGER!!!!!

Danger · Unread post by **Danger** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:56 pm

Darkorinth wrote:
Danger wrote:
Darkorinth wrote:
jaymz wrote:
Danger wrote:I would make them all gorgeous and filled with angst.

Gorgeous, Angsty, Sparkly, but very pale faced and an inate love for baseball during thunderstorms....

Angst is fine, gorgeous I expect, but any damn vampire that sparkles in any game I play in I will personally set on fire. Repeatedly. I don't care if vampires don't burn, that is what gasoline is for. I will make them cry.

Remind me not to play my Elvis-Impersonator rhinestone jumpsuit-wearing Vampire in any of your games.

Well......he MIGHT get a pass, but only if he is a really GOOD impersonator.

Thank yew, thank yew verrah much.

Danger · Unread post by **Danger** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:57 pm

Subjugator wrote:I'd give them:

1. Auto-dodge.
2. Sixth sense
3. Telepathy
4. Greater strength
5. Remove most of the invulnerabilities to damage and odd vulnerabilities and make them MD creatures instead (still vulnerable to holy water and sunlight)
6. Increase their physical speed by about 50 or 60
7. Increase their rate of regeneration (yes, increase)
8. When they're converted to MD creatures, add about 150 MD to each of them on top of their existing hit points.

/Sub

I kinda like that idea, Sub.

I was going to suggest removing their invulnerability to MDC weaponry. You just took it one step further. Nice. :ok:

sHaka · Unread post by **sHaka** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:00 pm

Proseksword wrote:Yeah, I like Palladium's Vampires better than anyone else's. I'm tired of Vampire's being cliché and overly powerful. Give me Vampires that die by supersoaker anyday!

Me too!

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:44 pm

I'm also been thinking ..

Racial abilities kept .. when thier turned .. then adding the Vampire OCC abilities ontop of that .

Lenwen · Unread post by **Lenwen** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:00 am

Rogue_Scientist wrote:I'm just curious: Where did the idea that all vampires have "super speed" come from?

I'm not just talking about animalistic reflexes or fast run/flight speed. I'm talking about abilities that rival the speed of Juicers, or even DC-variety "speedsters" (like the Flash) in recent movies, film, books, and television. Why do vampires need another super power?

As far as I can tell, this idea permeated popular culture in the last five to ten years. Perhaps it started with Ann Rice? Or maybe they just mirrored the speediness imparted to George Romero's zombies in the re-makes. I guess speed is "scarier".

Every movie that I've ever seen dating back to Salams Lot (the original not the remake with Patrick Dempsy) had the Vampire's moving crazy fast.

runebeo · Unread post by **runebeo** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:09 am

Darkorinth wrote:
taalismn wrote:Wouldn't....IMHO, Vampires get ENTIRELY too much press...time to encourage some other inhuman monstrousity, instead....

Seconded.

Our Gm has made young Raksasha demons playable and modified them to start with only half the number of spells, psionic powers, M.D.C, I.s.p., p.p.e, and their teleport abilities reduced to only line of sight and dimensional teleport require a nexus point. Still a little more powerful than a dragon hatchling but has been a truly fun recurring character. I loved the Steven King movie Sleepwalkers and wished they had caught on more like werewolves & vampires.

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:32 am

runebeo wrote:
Darkorinth wrote:
taalismn wrote:Wouldn't....IMHO, Vampires get ENTIRELY too much press...time to encourage some other inhuman monstrousity, instead....

Seconded.

Our Gm has made young Raksasha demons playable and modified them to start with only half the number of spells, psionic powers, M.D.C, I.s.p., p.p.e, and their teleport abilities reduced to only line of sight and dimensional teleport require a nexus point. Still a little more powerful than a dragon hatchling but has been a truly fun recurring character. I loved the Steven King movie Sleepwalkers and wished they had caught on more like werewolves & vampires.

Raksasha's as PCs, neat idea! I wouldn't bother making the Vampires any more powerful, instead I'd reduce their powers and abilities and make vampires much, much, more rare; i.e. NO Vampire Kingdoms, NO Vampire Intelligences, NO immunity to energy/MD weapons, ADD vulnerability to fire, KEEP vulnerability to water and magic/magic weapons. I DON'T want to deal with an eniter continent of Strahd (Ravenloft) like vampires, one was bad enough thank you.

AzathothXy · Unread post by **AzathothXy** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:39 am

Lenwen wrote:
Rogue_Scientist wrote:I'm just curious: Where did the idea that all vampires have "super speed" come from?

I'm not just talking about animalistic reflexes or fast run/flight speed. I'm talking about abilities that rival the speed of Juicers, or even DC-variety "speedsters" (like the Flash) in recent movies, film, books, and television. Why do vampires need another super power?

As far as I can tell, this idea permeated popular culture in the last five to ten years. Perhaps it started with Ann Rice? Or maybe they just mirrored the speediness imparted to George Romero's zombies in the re-makes. I guess speed is "scarier".

Every movie that I've ever seen dating back to Salams Lot (the original not the remake with Patrick Dempsy) had the Vampire's moving crazy fast.

Even in the novel Dracula, it talks of the dead's ability to move fast. IIRC.

AzathothXy · Unread post by **AzathothXy** » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:40 am

AzathothXy wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Rogue_Scientist wrote:I'm just curious: Where did the idea that all vampires have "super speed" come from?

I'm not just talking about animalistic reflexes or fast run/flight speed. I'm talking about abilities that rival the speed of Juicers, or even DC-variety "speedsters" (like the Flash) in recent movies, film, books, and television. Why do vampires need another super power?

As far as I can tell, this idea permeated popular culture in the last five to ten years. Perhaps it started with Ann Rice? Or maybe they just mirrored the speediness imparted to George Romero's zombies in the re-makes. I guess speed is "scarier".

Every movie that I've ever seen dating back to Salams Lot (the original not the remake with Patrick Dempsy) had the Vampire's moving crazy fast.

Even in the novel Dracula, it talks of the vamp's ability to move fast. IIRC.

runebeo · Unread post by **runebeo** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:03 am

Vampires don't need super speed at all. Turning into mist, bats & wolves gets them around just fine. To most wilderness people a bat flying around is no big deal, can't think of a much better choice for a surprise ambush. Super strength & invulnerability to most damage is more than enough to deal with most morals easily. Look at their prey which in most cases are humans & D-Bees, few D-Bees have any powers that can rival theses vampire powers.

csbioborg · Unread post by **csbioborg** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:52 am

Rogue_Scientist wrote:
AzathothXy wrote:Even in the novel Dracula, it talks of the dead's ability to move fast. IIRC.

There's fast, and then there's "super speed".

Vampires did not have super speed in Salem's Lot or in Dracula. Nor, moving forward through time, in From Dusk 'Till Dawn, Interview with the Vampire, Dracula 2000 (and co), the Blade movies, the Buffy and Angel series, etc.

Only in the last 5 years or so have I noticed a trend towards giving vampires additional "super powers", the most common of which seems to be the DC Universe's version of super speed.

As far as I can recall, the first instances of this I remember seeing were from the Ann Rice-inspired films.

vampire hunter d had some coolpowers for count magnus lee

Rallan · Unread post by **Rallan** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:12 am

It'd sort of depend on what I'm doing. Am I changing vampire stats to make them more like swarms of bloodthirsty undead 50s-70s B movie vampires? Or am I changing them to make them more like they're usually portrayed in modern horror, where they have motives and personalities of their own, and the constant lust for blood and carnageisn't always their main thing?

Or am I giving them glitter and making them play baseball? Because if it's this last one, I'm boycotting the thread.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:15 am

Rogue_Scientist wrote:
AzathothXy wrote:Even in the novel Dracula, it talks of the dead's ability to move fast. IIRC.

There's fast, and then there's "super speed".

Vampires did not have super speed in Salem's Lot or in Dracula. Nor, moving forward through time, in From Dusk 'Till Dawn, Interview with the Vampire, Dracula 2000 (and co), the Blade movies, the Buffy and Angel series, etc.

Only in the last 5 years or so have I noticed a trend towards giving vampires additional "super powers", the most common of which seems to be the DC Universe's version of super speed.

As far as I can recall, the first instances of this I remember seeing were from the Ann Rice-inspired films.

IIRC in Iterview witha a Vampire they were more than just "fast" as was displayed when he messed with Christian Sleighter's lightswitch faster than he could see... movie version anyhow... never read the books.

Cinos · Unread post by **Cinos** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:11 am

Vampires aren't insanely strong in every setting you find them in Palladium? Well, if we're gonna up them more I suppose I won't complain, I'm not a player!

My personal changes are only to their structure to add a bit more then Master, Secondary, Wild. Due to my personal preferences, I oft ignore or remove the Vampire Intellegnece thing, I find them cooler as a nameless thing without a clear starting point (Other then in Palladium Fantasy, where it's all Vlad-Tregor, who's cool enough to have it owed to him).

Elthbert · Unread post by **Elthbert** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:36 pm

Danger wrote:
Darkorinth wrote:
jaymz wrote:
Danger wrote:I would make them all gorgeous and filled with angst.

Gorgeous, Angsty, Sparkly, but very pale faced and an inate love for baseball during thunderstorms....

Angst is fine, gorgeous I expect, but any damn vampire that sparkles in any game I play in I will personally set on fire. Repeatedly. I don't care if vampires don't burn, that is what gasoline is for. I will make them cry.

Remind me not to play my Elvis-Impersonator rhinestone jumpsuit-wearing Vampire in any of your games.

I had a fat Maori Elvis Impersonator rhinestone jumpsuit wearing Super hero in one of my games. The 300 lb guy who had superhuman speed and could fly was classic ( I let him choose his major and a minor and he roled 2 minor, SOB ended up with invulnerability, SH STR, SH speed< And flight) it was unreal. But wow was that an awesome character.

SkyeFyre · Unread post by **SkyeFyre** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:58 am

I would leave them be. My players have yet to kill a vampire yet. Their misting and other little abilities are more than enough to royally stomp a group of unprepared adventurers.

Gamer · Unread post by **Gamer** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:54 am

I don't agree with some of the change ideas and removing some of the vulnerabilities.
Those vulnerabilities are what makes them unique to Rifts, I'd gotten tired of all the other RPGs and their vampires as they all seem to be more or less the same.

I agree with Keir, if the vampires were far more rare and there was no kingdoms and no growing vampire army running around in full body armor, using mdc weapons, military tactics and so on than I could see some of the changes.
But giving vampires super speed, autododge and such things make them into something that's not worth buying a new book for in my opinion.

I don't see why the vampires need any of the more grandiose idea changes, are the GMs just not using vampires for anything more dangerous than target practice for their players?
are the secondary and master vamps cat n mouse games just not being played logically enough?
Guess I just don't see the need for the big changes some are suggesting is all.

Rallan · Unread post by **Rallan** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:50 am

Gamer wrote:I don't agree with some of the change ideas and removing some of the vulnerabilities.
Those vulnerabilities are what makes them unique to Rifts, I'd gotten tired of all the other RPGs and their vampires as they all seem to be more or less the same.

Wait, horror movie cliches are what make Palladium vampires unique? You're gonna have to explain that one to me

kmspade · Unread post by **kmspade** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:18 pm

Killing a vampire with a super soaker = clown shoes. Same goes for crosses and flashlights with crosses painted on them. I always thought that was stupid.

Give them autododge, get rid of the water and cross business, and you have a pretty cool villain to fight. Could also make them vulnerable to fire to balance things out, if need be. Or make silver and wooden stakes be able to kill them. But above all, get rid of the water and cross thing.

Mechanurgist · Unread post by **Mechanurgist** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:48 pm

kmspade wrote:Killing a vampire with a super soaker = clown shoes. Same goes for crosses and flashlights with crosses painted on them. I always thought that was stupid.

Seconded. Thirded. Fourthed.

Vampires should make for more interesting villains than zombies, so it's not a question of making them tougher or weaker or with more combat invulnerabilities, it's making them shadowy, treacherous, invisible, backstabbing, fright-inducing spooky monsters who drag off the member of your party standing at the back. Give them more concealment/infiltration powers, mental powers and fewer outright invulnerabilities. Since they're associated with darkness, death and cold, give them more powers to affect the environment, like dropping the temperature in a whole building, or overgrowing it with moss, or turning a bright noonday sun into moonlit night.

Mercdog · Unread post by **Mercdog** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:41 pm

I'd say the only way I'd change vamps is to create more variations of vampire intelligences and the "type" of vampire that each creates, sort of like several strains of a disease diverging from one base strain. Most vampires would be created by the "base" vampire intelligences, but perhaps there are some different intelligences that laugh at silver and water, but see gold and salt as their ultimate destruction.

But then, my first love in gaming was Ravenloft, where the point is to treat each creature as a unique individual with varying strengths and weaknesses based on their origin. That is a bit different from the massive hordes of bloodsuckers inhabiting the world of Rifts. Still, I think that that's a change worth exploring.

Kalidor · Unread post by **Kalidor** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:07 pm

I got rid of the cross thing as well. A part of folklore left over due to people taking solace in the belief that such things would protect them, when in reality a "t" is just a "t". If a character has Vampire Lore I let them know that despite popular belief a cross is just a piece of wood and isn't going to protect you from anything.

Unless you sharpen one end and jam it through something's heart, of course!

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:45 am

I'd make the immune to sunlight damage but they hide in low light because if they are in direct sunlight... the awesome cooly hideous monster they are is revealed... no they shimmer in their not so awesome gayness and everyone wants to kill them.

Kalidor · Unread post by **Kalidor** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:31 am

Darkorinth wrote:
Kalidor wrote:I got rid of the cross thing as well. A part of folklore left over due to people taking solace in the belief that such things would protect them, when in reality a "t" is just a "t". If a character has Vampire Lore I let them know that despite popular belief a cross is just a piece of wood and isn't going to protect you from anything.

Unless you sharpen one end and jam it through something's heart, of course!

I go with what the crosses should represent, which is faith. If you believe in christ strong enough it will work, but anything that you believe in strongly enough will work.

A good example would be from the Dresden Files. The main character is not christian so crosses don't work for him. However he has great faith in magic (he is a wizard) so he several times uses the silver pantacle he wears which represents magic under human control. In one book it's effect is kind of weak and he isn't sure if it because his magic has been weakened or his faith in controlled magic. When he thinks back over all the times he has destroyed buildings recently he resolves to try and do that less.

Maybe, I don't agree, but maybe. But really, what Rifts person is going to know what this "Christ" is, much less have faith in him/it? It's just a throwback. Sure, there might be a select few cults still around in PA 104 who believe "Someday Jesus is coming back and these horrific monsters will be sorry!" but somehow I doubt even the most faithful have that much faith left considering the state of the world.

It's a safer bet that the few stories about crosses that remain regarding Vampires are because the legend got passed down and since silver actually hurts them, the cross hurt them.

TechnoGothic · Unread post by **TechnoGothic** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:52 pm

I would want one One Change.

Make them more Playable as PCs.
Remove the stuipid Skill Reduction and freezing Skill levels.
Vampires should have their own RCC EXP Table. Harder to level up than a Dragon maybe. But they should be able to gain EXP, level up, gain new skills.

Add in a New type of Master Vampire. Kinda like the Curse from PBFRPG's Land of the Damned. No Vamp-intelligence, a simple curse by a God-like being. PC does not have to Evil either. Looking for a way to remove the Curse and become Mortal again.

dark brandon · Unread post by **dark brandon** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:29 pm

Darkorinth wrote:
Kalidor wrote:
Darkorinth wrote:
Kalidor wrote:I got rid of the cross thing as well. A part of folklore left over due to people taking solace in the belief that such things would protect them, when in reality a "t" is just a "t". If a character has Vampire Lore I let them know that despite popular belief a cross is just a piece of wood and isn't going to protect you from anything.

Unless you sharpen one end and jam it through something's heart, of course!

I go with what the crosses should represent, which is faith. If you believe in christ strong enough it will work, but anything that you believe in strongly enough will work.

A good example would be from the Dresden Files. The main character is not christian so crosses don't work for him. However he has great faith in magic (he is a wizard) so he several times uses the silver pantacle he wears which represents magic under human control. In one book it's effect is kind of weak and he isn't sure if it because his magic has been weakened or his faith in controlled magic. When he thinks back over all the times he has destroyed buildings recently he resolves to try and do that less.

Maybe, I don't agree, but maybe. But really, what Rifts person is going to know what this "Christ" is, much less have faith in him/it? It's just a throwback. Sure, there might be a select few cults still around in PA 104 who believe "Someday Jesus is coming back and these horrific monsters will be sorry!" but somehow I doubt even the most faithful have that much faith left considering the state of the world.

It's a safer bet that the few stories about crosses that remain regarding Vampires are because the legend got passed down and since silver actually hurts them, the cross hurt them.

I agree that if you go by the "faith" thing then crosses won't work for the most part. Although interestingly enough it would mean that a CS soldier who believes strongly enough in the CS could repell them with some sort of CS logo. Interesting thoughts are poping up.

Another way to explain the weakness is that it is something inherited from the Vampire Intelligences and may not be related to christ in any way. Generally if a player would then ask why the Vampire Intelligence has that weakness I'd tell them that their character doesn't know that, so if they want to know they have to work to find out in character.

I don't think it's about faith, per se. If you look under the palladium diabolist section, a cross represents "protection" IIRC. So, it wasn't about belief.

Mechanurgist · Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:45 pm

Kalidor wrote:Maybe, I don't agree, but maybe. But really, what Rifts person is going to know what this "Christ" is, much less have faith in him/it? It's just a throwback. Sure, there might be a select few cults still around in PA 104 who believe "Someday Jesus is coming back and these horrific monsters will be sorry!" but somehow I doubt even the most faithful have that much faith left considering the state of the world.

Au contraire, religion usually makes a strong comeback during times of disaster and misery, and becomes weaker during times of plenty and peace. IMO Christianity would be a very powerful force in North America after the cataclysm, among humans at least, but that's a topic Palladium doesn't want to touch with a 100' foot cross.

Pole, I meant to say pole.