One Player Steals the Show

[thedrunk]

im plament combat where his bonuses wont come in to play as much, and where the other players abilities stand out. most random encounters i dont see as having a problem but during set encounters make one or two of them where the PC needs ot depend on other players strength.

when a player knows the game system and the GM's style of combat some players use it to a disenvantage for other players by making a LV god PC that with decent weapons and gear can take on a lv 5 to 8 NPC no problem.
to counter it I would through in some combat where it isnt all str parry and dod. try magic psionics and abilities.

but wiht out knowing more about the rest of the players or even hsi PC I really cant give a hard opnion other then look for str in the other player stats and abilities and give them some fights where a men at arms type wont be able to steel the show.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Use to have this problem years ago. The GM basically made a villain for each PC. Then brought it all together in a epic battle at the end of the campaign.

[Mouser13]

Use magic more on the party. I few simple spells and any combat character can be bought down to size.

Second add more emenies a person can only parry from 3 attacks a 4 will always hit.

[Captain Shiva]

I know this is not a new problem, and I am not a new GM, but I find myself seeking advice. There is one PC in my Rifts group that is built primarily with physical skills, meaning that just about the only thing he does well is combat, and he does it well indeed! He is a man at arms so that is expected. But the difficulty I have had of late is that his character is capable of either parrying or dodging any attack my bad guys make. However, if I design bad guys with strike bonuses that are even a remote challenge for him to parry or dodge, none of the other characters in the group have a prayer of parrying or dodging, even the other men at arms!

I see a couple possible outs for this situation. 1) Leave it as it is. He will be badass when fighting the run-of-the-mill troops. Then battles with the bosses become one-on-ones between him and the boss while the rest of the team keeps the minions busy. This means other players may start to feel like third wheels in combat. 2) Come up with recurring villains in combat who target him specifically and keep him occupied and are a little harder than standard toughs. This has the downside of making him feel like his character is being picked on unfairly.

I am open to other suggestions as well. What do you do when you have a PC like this in your group?

You could, of course, try to create situations where the problem can not be solved by violence. Or, you could fight dirty. Magic and psionics are great equalizers. Not knowing his OCC and it's abilities makes it a little harder to suggest tactic, but not impossible. COA and Magic Net are our friends. Invisible opponents are hard to defend against. With psionics, Bio-Manipulation is useful, and so is sealing him up inside a TK force field. If he has a lot of high tech goodies, Telemechanic Paralysis is your best friend. Don't hit harder, hit smarter.

[Noon]

What was the problem with him parrying and dodging, again?

You didn't actually say why it was a problem? In terms of soliving it, the 'why' of a problem is even more important than the 'whats happening' of a problem.

[ZorValachan]

What class is he?

Use a variety of combat. Have some of the enemies go up melee and others use ranged attacks. If he's not a Juicer or similar his dodges take actions. even with auto-dodge he is -10. And remember auto-dodge only facters in PP bonuses and auto-dodge bonuses, not normal dodge bonuses. Have him be attacked by 3 mediocre npcs, then the Big one that does the most damage comes up behind. More than 3 opponents and he is harried.

Use grenades and other exploses. Cannot dodge the blast radius.

Have one or 2 npcs lay down heavy fire. All his ranged attacks are at -6 now (shooting wild)

After a few fights, people (npcs) will learn he is the biggest and will legitimately focus attention on him.

Making a name for oneself at 'being the best' gets you a lot of people trying to 'kill the best'. Both wannabe low levels as well as others claiming to be the best.

And although I do not condone just killing characters, remember many famous fighters in history have been shot in the back of the head, just for being who they are: Jesse James, Wild Bill Hickok. And remember even though the characters may make statement's like 'I go to the corner and sit, so my back's guarded. That was Wild Bill's mode too, but that time the bar was filled, the corner seats taken and bang.

there was a hook In the rifts Adventure book (IIRC) which set up a dictator in a town with the sanctuary spell. As soon as someone else starts combat. knocked unconscious. Wakes up, disarmed and laughed at. Tries to fight again? unconscious again. Ths will allow other characters to make plans and figure out what is going on and ways to stop it beyond just fighting.

[wildhood]

Put a Cap on Physical Skills/Attributes/OCCs/RCCs/Races or Start your game with some Ground Rules.

[Ice Dragon]

1) Counter Strikes can not be parried or dodged

2) As ZorValachan stated, a blast radius can not be dodged (missiles, granades, mines, ...)

3) Concentrate fire on your power horse. He has a reputation, hasn't he - so an enemy would take him down through concentrated fire first (6 or more laser rifles can not be dodge )

4) Use magic and psi as Captain Shiva & Mouser13 stated (CoA is a wonderful spell, Sword to Snakes is evil, ...)

5) Make a few scenarios/games where firepower is not need as much as brainpower

What are the other players thinking - are they ok with the situation, or not?

[Overlord Rikonius]

Also, try to semisplit the party up sometimes. Not a full split where you'd have to run them as separate subgroups taking turns while the others sit and wait for their section to reactivate, but something like this:

In the enemy stronghold is a big room. There's 3 areas that the PCs have to do something in this room (three computer terminals, three idols they have to destroy, three whatever fits the theme of your foe). Have some reason they can't just do things in sequence (gotta active all three terminals at once, if one idol is destroyed, the others will come to life as demons in a short period, the whole place is gonna go up any moment so there's just no time)

Not something to do every time, but it's a good way to separate the combat god from the other fighters so you can match up the foes without it seeming arbitrary.

[Vrykolas2k]

Have more NPCs perform simultaneous attacks... he's attacking, so he can't parry...

[Shorty Lickens]

I'm going to give the same two pieces of advice I always give when this issue occurs:
1. Magic
2. Psionics

[Captain Shiva]

Thanks for the suggestions. The character is a cyber knight. I've used simultaneous attack some. I figure I might as well since it is virtually impossible for most enemies to parry him anyway. I don't use magic a lot because they haven't been in a lot of magic heavy areas recently. I keep the environment fairly realistic depending on where they are. And right now there are few ley lines in the area so there are few magical creatures and spellcasters. But I will probably start tossing in the occasional spellcaster merc. who has heard about him and has joined another band of monsters or villains to go after his weakness.

What race is the Cyber-Knight? Unless this guy is an MDC being, he shouldn't be that hard to give an challenge to.Now, you say his bonuses are so high that the other players would get wasted by an opponent powerful enough to challenge him.If your bad guys are really evil, they might attack the party on sight, and the worst of them might go straight for the CK. That would make it a one on one battle. Now a Mystic Knight or a renegade Battle Magus should be able to give him a challenge,as well as a Delphi Juicer. If you are feeling really mean, sic a Murder Wraith on him.

[Spinachcat]

Don't worry too much about challenging him in combat. Let him shine there. I would not exploit his weakness to psi/magic too often because that's just picking on him (but do it enough to keep him challenged - say once per 3 or 4 sessions).

However, create challenges to him defending his code of conduct. Challenge him to keep innocent's alive...AKA, throw a berzerk demon into a crowd. It's just looking to suck down PPE with easy kills of unarmed peasants and won't engage the CK even if attacked. Now its not just about "kill the monster"

Personally, I don't allow simo attack unless the defender has an equal or higher Initiative bonus than the attacker. Though sometimes I just compare PPs.

[Razzinold]

Well cyber knights are supposed to be principled right ? (not sure never played one, or even really read about them). So couldn't you have some evil NPC possess/mind control some innocent villagers and use them to attack him ? They will be trying to kill the knight, but wouldn't the knight only be allowed to subdue them ? also attack him with regular "bad guys" so he would be distracted trying to separate the two.

And as others have stated, magic, psionic, juicers, well how about borgs ? maybe not have have high bonuses to strike but that is a lot of MDC the knight has to work through.

[Captain Shiva]

The super-high M.D.C. opponent idea is a no-go. There have already been too many complaints in the group about Palladium combat lasting too long because of the massive amounts of damage opponents have to take before they go down. (This is even with me allowing things like coup de graces with paralyzed opponents and such. Heck, I usually just pull paralyzed opponents off the board.) I shall have to try challenging him with a demon who is only interested in killing commoners though. That sounds nasty.

Tell me, do they also complain about their EBA protecting them from multiple hits from MD weapons? That's just part of the way the game works. I think your players need to do what I said earlier, and start hitting smarter,not harder.

[Captain Shiva]

Yea, I think it's a lame complaint too. I had to explain to the mystic why she should be casting spells instead of shooting lasers all the time. Befuddling enemies and blinding them with clouds of smoke and blinding flashes is usually much better than dealing 3D6 damage. They are also too used to playing games like D&D and don't quite grasp the power of making called shots yet. But I am trying to make villains exciting without necessarily requiring that they have massive amounts of M.D.C. Combats that drag on and on into the night because an opponent has 2000 M.D.C. can be a little tedious.

If they have played D&D, then they probably have spent a lot of time beating on a monster with a lot of hit points.A poweful monster with a high(or low,depending on edition) AC is not going to be a pushover,either.It often takes teamwork plus firepower to win the day. To take down those tough opponents ASAP, Blinding Flash, Befuddle, Magic Net, and COA are a party's best friends. Got to knock those bonuses down, anyway you can.

[KillWatch]

1) Don't make the story about him. Take thigns from other player's histories that he has nothing to do with
2) If he does this enough times the intelligence on him will grow and people will realize fighting him hand to hand is just stupid. Answer: snipers snipers snipers, from about half a mile away.
3) Shape Charges are always good
4) Karmic Power?
5) Belt fed machine gun

[The Beast]

Call Lightning, Magic Net, Carpet of Adhesion, missile vollies of 4 or more, and/or any combination thereof.

[Cinos]

Missiles with splashes too big to dodge, snipers hiding in a bush he cannot see (and thus cannot avoid).

[Captain Shiva]

Solution...

Negate Super Powers (super powers includes ALL non-human abilities!). If a Player disputes the rule of the GM (with reasonable cause) then they need to 'retire'. If the game is one sided, then the player needs a stern talking to! Humble them if they will not listen!

The description of Negate Super Abilities specifically states that it does not work on magic,psionics,or anything else but actual super powers,so I fail to see how it would apply in this case.

[KillWatch]

I have edited NSP to do the following;
1) increase own powers and the powers of others for a short time in levels
2) negate powers for longer periods of time with level advancements
3) not negate chi or psionic abilities but "freeze" a number of unused points available
4) still has no affect on magic whatsoever
5) NSP became Power Manipulation

[asajosh]

I'm going to give the same two pieces of advice I always give when this issue occurs:
1. Magic
2. Psionics

#1 especially, Temporal Magic can really screw with people (Time Warp: Age, Distortion spells, etc).

[johnkretzer]

A good enemy could be a evil Cyber-knight built just like him...except two levels higher.

[johnkretzer]

A good enemy could be a evil Cyber-knight built just like him...except two levels higher.

This reply made me laugh maniacally at its simplicity

When I used to GM my rules was simple...whatever the PCs can do the NPCs can do too....

[demos606]

Area effect weapons, psionics, magic, situational modifiers, chi attacks - all of these things can make an unstoppable character not-so-unstoppable.

[random_username]

Old thread. Only listing this since the problem listed is quite common as is the source (a Cyber-Knight).

Cyber-Knights as of RUE are able to be very solid melee combatants and actually live up to their in-game story reputation. They tend to be one of the easiest Men At Arms classes to make into exceptionally powerful melee combatants. They can eventually be the melee equivalent of a Glitter Boy at the highest levels (10th+).

Master Psionic, Psyscape Training, Magic Tattoos (True Atlantean race is most plausible, has very high attributes, is human-looking, and has interesting bonuses but is not necessarily best option). 4D6x10 MD / paired psi-sword attack at 15th level, and MDC Tattoo Armor/Force Field of 1125 MDC PER activation (which lasts for hours). Up to 5 other Magic Tattoos for very useful abilities and more PPE. Add in Sixth Sense Sensitive Psi-Power to insure only activating when needed. Further the Psi-Damage of their Psi-Swords generally affects everything, most invulnerabilities will not negate its effectiveness.

The anti-tech stuff diminishes the main counter to Cyber-Knights: long range tech attacks.

Keeping in mind this borders on being a regular choice for player characters. The Magic Tattoos have always been encouraged for Cyber-Knights (listed in several books). The Master Psionic option is not unreasonable. The Psyscape Training is appropriate and reasonable. Actually Cyber-Knights are one of the most appropriate OCCs for Psyscape Training (Psi-Warrior definitely, Mystic possibly).

-------

As for opponents that can take them out without slaughtering the other party members that can be challenging.

The following options might be helpful:

- long range non-tech attacks (magic, psionic, mutant) negate most of the Cyber-Knights advantages
- Super Abilities (Skraypers, Conversion Book One, Heroes Unlimited 2, etc.) Numerous Effects: Autododge with bonuses, flight, MDC, invulnerabilities, etc.
- Natural Combat Ability - Major Super Ability (Skraypers page 153) or a variant of it can be exceptionally useful and even overpowering.
- Mimic - Major Super Ability (Skraypers page 152)
- LOL Mimic AND Natural Combat Ability PC will be very annoyed with GM.
- NPCs with Magic Tattoos might be suitable, either actual Tattoo OCC or combative OCC with Magic Tattoos. Could even be a naturally combative OCC turned into a Magic Tattoo OCC (Atlantis OR Splynn Dimensional Market OR one of the South America Books).
- Invisible Simple spell (RUE) PLUS Mystic Invisibility spell (Merc Adventures page 17) if the opponent can detect invisible/magic/psi in any way. Invisible at will for creatures is same as Invisible Simple with unlimited duration.

[jedi078]

I had two very strong melee characters who basically stacked stats with their skill selections. One was a knight of the white rose, and the other was a cyber-knight. They also had heavy magic support from the other players. However, one night when the CK was facing up against a tough opponent in melee he was CoA'd. Now I decided I wasn't going to be ruthless and kill his character outright, so I had the enemy cast house of glass. Now, the CK had been up against house of glass before, but it was several sessions prior and he couldn't quite remember what it did. He ended up destroying his own cyber-armor and mortally wounding himself, leading to his capture.

Mortally wounded means you’re going to die. I hope that CK died as a result of his actions.

The anti-tech stuff dimishes the main counter to Cyber-Knights: long range tech attacks.

IMO the anti-tech stuff was specifically added to the CK OCC to counter all the power creep that found its way into Rifts. A Cyber knight really does not need this munchkin addition.

Another munckin addition is the Psi-Stalkers turning into MDC.

The best way to limit a player from stealing the show is make sure they don’t make a “stealing the show” type character. As the GM you have the power to limit certain OCC’s in terms of powers. Conversely as the GM if you let a player make an uber powerful character it's your fault there is a “stealing the show” type character within the player group.