Suppressing Fire

[Natasha]

House rule it or maybe RECON has something useful in it.

You just have to determine fairly how many melee actions one can maintain suppressive fire since the Palladium combat system isn't really set up for some styles of non-melee type of fighting.

[Rallan]

I've been looking through my Palladium books in order to find rules on "suppressing/covering fire" from automatic weapons. Does anyone know where or what book any rules can be found?

It could just be that I am not completely understanding "types of bursts with machine gun" information that is listing in most of the books (HU2, Robotech, Rifts and the Compendium of Contemporary Weapons)?

Specifically, I am endeavoring to understand how to incorporate it into my games. My example would be the players are trying to stop someone but have to take cover behind a car as not to get shot. Initiative is rolled, the bad guys win the initiative roll and decide to lay down some suppressing or covering fire to keep the players pinned down at their location behind "cover". What rules are out there in the Palladium books that you have found to govern this type of situation?

Thanks.

There's nothing to support the idea of covering fire. No "morale check" that PCs (or even mere NPCs) have to make to see if they're ballsy enough to expose themselves to incoming fire. No penalty to actions you attempt while under fire. No hit bonus to an attacker who's already firing on a particular area and is in a good position to take a potshot at you when you stray into his freefire zone. No guidelines on what to roll to see whether you get hit when you move out from cover and into a zone that's being hosed with random fire, no nothing.

Basically if a character knows that there's someone who's got the area marked out, it's entirely up to the player (or the GM if it's an NPC) to decide whether that character will risk exposing himself to fire. And if the baddy is laying down suppressing fire instead of waiting for a clean shot, then it's entirely up to the GM to houserule it as he goes if he wants to figure out what happens to characters who go out into the open.

[Armorlord]

Basically it ends up going down similarly to how covering fire works in real life, or at least movies. Someone sprays the area where the opponents are at the same time as the ally being covered moves from cover to cover, or performs an important action that can't afford to be shot at during. So those that are subject to the covering fire will generally want to dodge, take cover, or remain behind cover rather than weather being fired on for the opportunity to shoot at whomever or whatever action is being covered during that action. Attacks would be at the standard Spraying an Area/Shooting Wild penalties.
It really comes up in those 'I shoot anything coming out of cover/into the room/etc!' or 'They're on edge and ready to shoot.' sorts of situations. Alternately, firing on each other from cover can have similar effects, since popping up, firing, and ducking down in the same action would result in Wild Shooting, which helps keep anybody's effectiveness suppressed, and machine-gun fire is certainly great at encouraging an area to stay suppressed.

[Natasha]

You wanna introduce the simul-attack-in-ranged-combat madness.

[TiekoSora]

Suppressing fire by definition is directing fire from one or more soldiers preferably using light machineguns (M249 or M240B) to saturate an area with a steady amount of fire to keep the enemy fixed in one location while your assault element maneuvers around to a predetermined spot, and when the proper signal is given, suppressing fire is shifted to block the enemy from fleeing the inbound assault team, while making sure the assault team is out of the line of fire. Contrary to how it is in the movies, only the initial 10-15 econds is a lengthy burst or rapid fire from assault rifles, After that, the soldiers have their weapons "talk".

M249 #1 gunner fires a 3-5 round burst (short burst)
M249 #2 gunner fires a 3-5 round burst
Grenadier (M-4 with mounted M203 40mm grenade launcher) fires three rounds (short burst equivalent)
Team leader fires three rounds, watches or listens for shift fire signal
Rinse, repeat until signal to shift fire.

This is how we did it back in the old days (pre-War on Terror) when I was an infantry fireteam leader as a squad. I would give my rifleman to the assault team and get their SAW gunner for the added suppression.

My ruling has always been that you can fire as many short bursts as you have attacks with no bonuses to hit, but any hits do normal burst damage.

[Rallan]

Basically it ends up going down similarly to how covering fire works in real life, or at least movies. Someone sprays the area where the opponents are at the same time as the ally being covered moves from cover to cover, or performs an important action that can't afford to be shot at during. So those that are subject to the covering fire will generally want to dodge, take cover, or remain behind cover rather than weather being fired on for the opportunity to shoot at whomever or whatever action is being covered during that action. Attacks would be at the standard Spraying an Area/Shooting Wild penalties.
It really comes up in those 'I shoot anything coming out of cover/into the room/etc!' or 'They're on edge and ready to shoot.' sorts of situations. Alternately, firing on each other from cover can have similar effects, since popping up, firing, and ducking down in the same action would result in Wild Shooting, which helps keep anybody's effectiveness suppressed, and machine-gun fire is certainly great at encouraging an area to stay suppressed.

The problem is that the rest of Palladium's rules tend to make it work nothing like real life. For starters, there's no fear of dying mechanic in the game, so the decision about whether to stick your head up while the baddy is laying down covering fire comes down entirely to whether the player thinks it's worth the risk.

And for seconds, Palladium's rules penalise people who take evasive actions in a firefight. Even without the -10 dodge rule (which made dodging a suicidal waste of your time), every time you spend an action dodging or staying under cover you're basically giving the other guy a free unopposed action. Meanwhile if you deliberately choose to counterattack instead of trying to parry or dodge, your counterattack will automatically be unopposed. Which means that in gunfights in most Palladium games the winner isn't the one with the smartest tactics, it's the guy who's got enough SDC/MDC to be able to stand there without taking evasive action while he blows his opponent away on full automatic.

[Armorlord]

The problem is that the rest of Palladium's rules tend to make it work nothing like real life. For starters, there's no fear of dying mechanic in the game, so the decision about whether to stick your head up while the baddy is laying down covering fire comes down entirely to whether the player thinks it's worth the risk.

Other than EBA or within PA/vehicle, there is a very real danger of dying in a firefight in any Palladium setting, though people do function like John Wayne in being able to take a few hits, automatic fire can be deadly even through that. As for those in EBA/PA/Vehicles, even when they aren't in immediate physical danger, that armor that is their life blood is still getting chipped away and that stuff is effectively unrepairable in the field outside of clunky pathwork with an Operator, and costs a large amount to get repaired in a town with the proper tools and materials. As for sticking their head out of cover, it is indeed the character's choice whether it is worth the risk to stick their head out. Just remember that while the chances of been hit are low, there's that chance that while sticking their head up that they are going to catch a few rounds right in the face.

And for seconds, Palladium's rules penalise people who take evasive actions in a firefight. Even without the -10 dodge rule (which made dodging a suicidal waste of your time), every time you spend an action dodging or staying under cover you're basically giving the other guy a free unopposed action.

And that right there is how covering and suppressing fire works. Though I don't know many cases of bothering with covering fire if the enemy is less than ten feet away for that particular penalty, and do remember that the shooter has to roll well enough to hit regardless of the target's rolls.

Meanwhile if you deliberately choose to counterattack instead of trying to parry or dodge, your counterattack will automatically be unopposed. Which means that in gunfights in most Palladium games the winner isn't the one with the smartest tactics, it's the guy who's got enough SDC/MDC to be able to stand there without taking evasive action while he blows his opponent away on full automatic.

And the only ones that do that are those with a death wish, immortals, and Coalition troops with resupply nearby to replace and repair their gear after the fight.

[Cinos]

While I tend to stick to fantasy, my ventures to modern combat made me invent rules for suppressive fire;

Character(s) make a Burst (Long or Short) on a radius. Radius is 5 Feet + 1 per shot fired (or less at players choice if they're concentrating to avoid friendly fire). Anyone who happens to be there or passing through effectively get shot at, and the Attacker makes a Strike getting their WP bonus (no burst bonuses), and if they're hit, suffer 1 Shot (Yes only one). Railguns and similar weapons ideal for suppressive fire deal half normal burst damage, and are +3 to Strike.

To balls up to charge through fire, HF 10, +2 if Suppressive ideal weapons are being used (i.e Rail guns) and +5 if explosives are used.

What made it more viable are SD through armor rules (i.e MD weapons deal an amount of SD to the person even in MD armor), it made players a lot more careful to get shot, and fire fights changed from slug fest to cover, spray and prey, and flanking over night, and many an argument over who charges out first (granted it also made the MoM, Borgs and Juicers MUCH more valued). Note I also don't use the -10 to attack roll against ranged (Rational that you're able to see their gun barrel and avoid it by moving the way it's not pointing, if you cant see it, treated like a surprise attack, no avoidance).

[SkyeFyre]

The way I would play it out.

Those who are pinned down are shooting wild if they pop up and fire. This would be following the canon rules of when under fire you fire wild.

Those who are doing the firing do not need to take an extra action to aim at their target behind cover as they are already firing in that direction.

So what this would boil down to if both parties had cover and one side started with the suppressing fire is that any time the pinned down team tries to pop up and fire they need to perform an aimed shot taking up two actions and even then it counts as wild. The team that's performing suppressing fire gets a free shot at the guy who popped up because he's using an action to aim and as they're already firing around him there's no need to take another action to aim back.

[Chris]

I adapted the Suppressive fire system used in Cyberpunk to fit the Palladium rule-set. It could probably be more elegant, and simple, but, this is what I came up with. The Morale check borrows a lot from the Shell Shock rules presented in the Rifts Coalition War Campaign book. I futzed with it a bit...

Also, to use the Suppressive fire rules, you have to determine the ROF of the weapon in question. I tried to keep it simple, if a weapon says X damage from a 20 round burst, then I multiplied the amount of rounds in a burst by ten. My justification for that is, that 10 attacks seems to be the highest amount normally attainable by a character (barring mecha bonuses etc). The rules say that a burst is fired in one attack, so if you can fire a 10 round burst ten times...

It's not perfect, and I'm sure real life weapons have far higher rates of fire (especially the Gatling variety) but it seemed to work out.

Suppressive Fire:

* Suppressive Fire is used to cover an area (Fire Zone) with bullets or blaster fire, making the area hazardous to pass through.

You may overlap the fire zones of more then one weapon, dividing the total number of shots to determine the save.

* Two notes:
- 1: Suppressive fire is only useful when you can pour a lot of fire into the area you wish to suppress. Fire teams (characters) should coordinate their attacks and fire at the same time.
- 2: Fire Zones should be as tight as possible. (Minimum width: 2 meters.)

* Saving throw to navigate suppressive fire is a D20 + your PP bonus (raw stat bonus)

* The target number you must beat is the ROF of the weapon(s) being fired into the area divided by the size of the area in meters

* So, two Wraith cannons (ROF 5), firing into a 2 meter area would be 10/2 = 5 so 5 is the target to beat, it's a large weapon and low ROF so…easy enough; but, a rail gun with an ROF of 30 is a 15 so, that’s harder to beat, and if two are firing into the same area it would be 30, which would make it nigh impossible to run thru it unscathed…

* If you decide to brave the hailstorm of suppressive fire, and fail to make your save, you are struck by 1D6 rounds.

* The human psyche and self preservation are intrinsically linked. Even in body armor the mind wants to keep the body alive and has a hard time leaping into possible harm. To brave Suppressive fire you must also roll a Morale Check.

Morale Check:

* The Morale Check: Based off of your M.E. Stat (and using the Save vs. Insanity values) the Moral Check is rolled on a 20 sided dice like all saving throws. Base target to beat is 12.
* Modifiers to Morale.
- In Body Armor: ASC or CVR-3: +2
- In a Cyclone: +3
- Assisting a Teammate: +2
- Assisting a Loved One: +5
- Desperate Situation: +2
- Outside of armor and enemy is using SDC weaponry: -0
- Outside of armor and enemy is using MDC weaponry: -6
- Wounded: -2 per 25% of SDC taken. (Cumulative, so if you are down to Hit Point you have a -8)
- Wounded: -1 per 10% of HP taken.
- Previous Moral Check passed: +1
- Previous Moral Check Failed: -1
- Inspired by Leader: +2 to +4
- Demoralized by Leader: -1 to -3

* Failing a Morale Check:
- If you fail within 5 points of your target you may act normally so long as that action does not expose you to danger.
- If you fail by 10 points you are beset by fear, hunkering down trying not to get shot. -10% to Skills, -1 to strike, +1 to dodge.
- If you fail by 15 points you are looking for, and will take, the nearest exit. -20% to Skills, -2 to strike, +2 to dodge.
- If you fail by 20 points you are a quivering mess. Yes, I’m looking at you Opum.

[Vrykolas2k]

Given the prevelence of MDC armour and the like... if you're in armour or are a MDC being of some sort, I rule that surpressing fire has a Horror Factor of 12-14, depending on what's used.
If you're down to low MDC or no armour, it's HF 14-16.

[Shorty Lickens]

Its never come up in my games. In Heroes Unlimited the PC's and most NPC's are durable enough (or have powers to evade) to withstand enough abuse that they'd never think about ducking under suppressing fire.
In an MDC setting it also does not make sense if the person has MDC armor. The way the rules work you can normally take many hits before going down and its usually in your best interest to risk them so you too can take shots at your assailant. I think the best suppressing fire would be the kind that can immobilize you regardless of your SDC or MDC. That would actually be something to fear. This would be particularly good in HU where many PC's have special weaknesses. Not to mention all the super powers that can incapacitate at range.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I've been looking through my Palladium books in order to find rules on "suppressing/covering fire" from automatic weapons. Does anyone know where or what book any rules can be found?

It could just be that I am not completely understanding "types of bursts with machine gun" information that is listing in most of the books (HU2, Robotech, Rifts and the Compendium of Contemporary Weapons)?

Specifically, I am endeavoring to understand how to incorporate it into my games. My example would be the players are trying to stop someone but have to take cover behind a car as not to get shot. Initiative is rolled, the bad guys win the initiative roll and decide to lay down some suppressing or covering fire to keep the players pinned down at their location behind "cover". What rules are out there in the Palladium books that you have found to govern this type of situation?

Thanks.

Use the machine gun spray option (in HU2, or in the RMB), and anybody sticking their heads up to fire would be subject to the damage, or they might be considered the bystanders mention in the text.