New Firearms

[Mantisking]

Taking a little break from Less Lethal Weapons, here are the stats for a couple of cool guns I stumbled across.

Mateba Model 6 Unica
This is a semi-automatic revolver, it uses the energy generated by discharging the weapon to cycle the cylinder and rooster the hammer. It also has the barrel located in line with the bottom of the cylinder to reduce felt recoil. It is also available in .44 Magnum.
Country: Italy
Cartridge: .357 Magnum
Feed: 6 chamber cylinder
Weight: 2.96 pounds (1.35 kilograms)
Overall Length: 10.8 inches (27.43 centimeters)
Barrel Length: 6 inches (15.24 centimeters)
Muzzle Velocity: ___ fps ( ___ meters/second)
Approx. Effective Range: 200 feet (61 meters)
Damage: 4D6
Cost: $1,000

Mateba Grifone
This weapon is an expansion of the Model 6 Unica into a carbine. Also available in .44 Magnum and .357 Magnum.
Country: Italy
Cartridge: .454 Casull
Feed: 6 chamber cylinder
Weight: ___ pounds ( ___ kilograms)
Overall Length: __ inches ( __ centimeters)
Barrel Length: 18 inches (45.7 centimeters)
Muzzle Velocity: ___ fps ( ___ meters/second)
Approx. Effective Range: 400 feet (122 meters)
Damage: 5D6
Cost: $2,000

Chiappa Rhino
An innovative revolver design that has the barrel located in line with the bottom of the cylinder to reduce felt recoil.
Country: Italy
Cartridge: .357 Magnum
Feed: 6 chamber cylinder
Weight: __ pounds ( __ kilograms)
Overall Length: 10 inches (24.4 centimeters)
Barrel Length: 6 inches (15.24 centimeters)
Muzzle Velocity: ___ fps ( ___ meters/second)
Approx. Effective Range: 200 feet (61 meters)
Damage: 4D6
Cost: $980

Designer's Notes:

• Does no-one chronograph stuff anymore?!? I can't find muzzle velocities for any of these weapons.
• No weight or overall length for the Grifone due to the inclusion of a stock to the Mateba frame.
• No weight for the Rhino because the only published weight is for the 2" barrel.

[NMI]

Chiappa Rhino
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiappa_Rhino
24 ounces

Grifone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mateba_Autorevolver

[Mantisking]

Chiappa Rhino
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiappa_Rhino
24 ounces

As noted, the published weight is for the 2" barrel. I'm writing up the 6" version.

Grifone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mateba_Autorevolver

And?

[jaymz]

these will make nice aditionas to my growing pile o stuff

[NMI]

My mistake on the first.
For the second, is that not the weapon "Grifone"? It has the weight.

[taalismn]

Permit me to provide the following:
http://fc07.deviantart.com/fs16/f/2007/145/0/3/Mateba_Grifone_Carbine_by_redroguexiii.jpg
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2100/2166.htm

[Mantisking]

For the second, is that not the weapon "Grifone"? It has the weight.

Okay, I must be blind, 'cause all I'm seeing for the Grifone is this

Mateba Grifone
Also available was the Mateba Grifone, which mated an 18-inch barrel, hand guard and butt stock to the Autorevolver's frame and action. It was available in .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. A version in .454 Casull was available which also allowed .45 Colt ammunition to be fired.

[NMI]

For the second, is that not the weapon "Grifone"? It has the weight.

Okay, I must be blind, 'cause all I'm seeing for the Grifone is this

Mateba Grifone
Also available was the Mateba Grifone, which mated an 18-inch barrel, hand guard and butt stock to the Autorevolver's frame and action. It was available in .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. A version in .454 Casull was available which also allowed .45 Colt ammunition to be fired.

No weight or overall length for the Grifone due to the inclusion of a stock to the Mateba frame.

Code: Select all

Weight    2.96 lb (1.35 kg)
Length    275 mm (10.83 in)
Barrel length    152 mm (6 in)
Cartridge    

    * .357 Magnum
    * .44 Magnum
    * .454 Casull

Feed system    6-Round Cylinder
Sights    Iron sights
Fixed Two-Dot Night Sight

[Mantisking]

Ah, okay. Those dimensions are for the Unica 6 not the Grifone. The Grifone has an 18" barrel, so the overall length is probably going to be somewhere between 28 and 30 inches. And the addition of a stock and forearm would propel the weight above three pounds.

[Mantisking]

Desert Tactical Arms Stealth Recon Scout
A bullpup sniper rifle designed with special operations and SWAT teams in mind. It is available in multiple calibers for multiple tactical applications. The barrel, bolt, and magazine can be changed in one minute with a single allen wrench.
Country: United States
Cartridge: .243, .308, .300 Magnum, and .338 Lapua Magnum.
Feed: 5 round detachable magazine (all calibers).
Weight: 12 pounds (5.45 kilograms)(.243), 11.4 pounds (5.18 kilograms)(.308), 12 pounds (5.45 kilograms)(.300WM), 12.25 pounds (5.56 kilograms)(.338LM).
Overall Length: 38 inches (96.52 centimeters)(.243), 31.5 inches (80 centimeters)(.308), 38 inches (96.52 centimeters)(.300WM), 39.63 inches (100.66 centimeters)(.338LM).
Barrel Length: 26 inches (66 centimeters)(.243), 22 inches (55.88 centimeters)(.308), 26 inches (66 centimeters)(.300WM), 26 inches (66 centimeters)(.338LM).
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown.
Approx. Effective Range: 2700 feet (822.96 meters)(.243), 2400 feet (731.52 meters)(.308), 4500 feet (1371.6 meters)(.300WM), 5900 feet (1798.32 meters)(.338LM).
Damage: 4D6 (.243), 5D6 (.308), 5D6 (.300WM), 6D6 (.338LM).
Cost: $3860 (.243/.308), $4005 (.300WM), $4185 (.338LM).

[taalismn]

Just thought I'd slip this in the mail slot.

Semmerling
The Semmerling is a limited production small arm meant to maximize stopping power in a minimal package, as a hold-out weapon for those who might lose their primary sidearm. Simplicity and concealability were also factors in the Semmerling’s construction; the weapon is very small and quite light weight, with only 33 parts(including fasteners), but very high quality construction. Resembling a snub-nosed automatic pistol, the Semmerling is a manual repeating double-action pistol firing the powerful .45 round, giving the small pistol considerable recoil, but serious stopping power. The Semmerling’s triggeguard merges smoothly with the barrel housing, preventing the weapon from catching on clothing, and the pistol grip pads can be removed entirely, allowing the shooter to check the status of the magazine by sight. Other features included a cocking mechanism that could tell the shooter by touch the state of the weapon(important, since the Semmerling lacks a safety, slide release, and decocker), and an optional double-action trigger).
The Semmerling series was produced in the United States in the early 1980s, and comprised the LM1, LM2, LM3, LM4 and the XLM models. A stainless steel variant was later produced by American Derringer. The Semmerling was essentially handcrafted, with only 600 examples of the LM4 model produced.

Country: United States
Weight: 19.77 ounces
Length: 93.98 mm (3.7 inches)
Range: 150 ft
Damage: ( Standard .45 ACP) 4d6 SD
Rate of Fire: Single shot, ECHH
Payload: 5
Cost: 750 dollars

[Desert Rat]

Looking over the Damage characteristics of the Desert Tactical Arms Stealth Recon Scout (that's a mouthful), a couple of observations. First, the .300 Win Mag. The bullet is relatively the same weight/size as the .308 (7.62x54mm) cartridge. What has made it an incredible popular sniper round is its relatively flat trajectory in comparison to the .308 round at similar distances. The "Magnum" is what increases the Maximum Effective Range (based upon a 24" barrel) to 1300 meters. In game terms, the .300 Win Mag should realistically have the same damage rating as the .308 (5D6) and a Maximum Effective Range of approximately 1300 meters dependent upon the rifle/barrel characteristics.

The .338 Lapua Magnum round on average runs between 250 to 300 grains, which is a considerable mark up from the .308 round. The .50 caliber round runs in the mid-300 grains. Therefore,in game terms, if the .50 caliber round damage rating is 7D6, it would stand to reason that the .338 Lapua damage rating should be 6D6.

Not trying to sharp shoot you here, just a couple of observations from a sniper/gun nut. Take it or leave it, makes no difference to me.

[Mantisking]

Looking over the Damage characteristics of the Desert Tactical Arms Stealth Recon Scout (that's a mouthful), a couple of observations. First, the .300 Win Mag. The bullet is relatively the same weight/size as the .308 (7.62x54mm) cartridge. What has made it an incredible popular sniper round is its relatively flat trajectory in comparison to the .308 round at similar distances. The "Magnum" is what increases the Maximum Effective Range (based upon a 24" barrel) to 1300 meters. In game terms, the .300 Win Mag should realistically have the same damage rating as the .308 (5D6) and a Maximum Effective Range of approximately 1300 meters dependent upon the rifle/barrel characteristics.

Okay.

The .338 Lapua Magnum round on average runs between 250 to 300 grains, which is a considerable mark up from the .308 round. The .50 caliber round runs in the mid-300 grains. Therefore,in game terms, if the .50 caliber round damage rating is 7D6, it would stand to reason that the .338 Lapua damage rating should be 6D6.

.50 damage is 8d6 if I recall correctly.

Not trying to sharp shoot you here, just a couple of observations from a sniper/gun nut. Take it or leave it, makes no difference to me.

Thanks. I was wondering about a few things about the weapon.

[jaymz]

Looking over the Damage characteristics of the Desert Tactical Arms Stealth Recon Scout (that's a mouthful), a couple of observations. First, the .300 Win Mag. The bullet is relatively the same weight/size as the .308 (7.62x54mm) cartridge. What has made it an incredible popular sniper round is its relatively flat trajectory in comparison to the .308 round at similar distances. The "Magnum" is what increases the Maximum Effective Range (based upon a 24" barrel) to 1300 meters. In game terms, the .300 Win Mag should realistically have the same damage rating as the .308 (5D6) and a Maximum Effective Range of approximately 1300 meters dependent upon the rifle/barrel characteristics.

Okay.

The .338 Lapua Magnum round on average runs between 250 to 300 grains, which is a considerable mark up from the .308 round. The .50 caliber round runs in the mid-300 grains. Therefore,in game terms, if the .50 caliber round damage rating is 7D6, it would stand to reason that the .338 Lapua damage rating should be 6D6.

.50 damage is 8d6 if I recall correctly.

Not trying to sharp shoot you here, just a couple of observations from a sniper/gun nut. Take it or leave it, makes no difference to me.

Thanks. I was wondering about a few things about the weapon.

.50 cal damage is dependant on what source you are using. In the Modern Weapons COmpendium a .50 cal round does (at least the machine gun round) does 1d6x10+10 per round.

[Desert Rat]

The .338 Lapua Magnum round on average runs between 250 to 300 grains, which is a considerable mark up from the .308 round. The .50 caliber round runs in the mid-300 grains. Therefore,in game terms, if the .50 caliber round damage rating is 7D6, it would stand to reason that the .338 Lapua damage rating should be 6D6.

.50 damage is 8d6 if I recall correctly.

The main book has it at 7D6. There might be variations in other books, but this is pretty much the only game I play.

.50 cal damage is dependent on what source you are using. In the Modern Weapons Compendium a .50 cal round does (at least the machine gun round) does 1d6x10+10 per round.

I take that is machine gun damage to account for the higher cyclic rates. You will notice that there are variations throughout the Compendium for weapon systems of the same caliber, specifically the 7.62mm rifles and machine guns. Even the .50 caliber multi-barrel machine gun is listed as 2D6x10+10.

When you look up the round in the front of the Compendium it is listed as 1D4X10+10. This would be more in line with Mantiskings statement of 8D6. I think I am actually going to go with this damage as it will open up damage ratings for rounds in between the 7.62mm and .50 caliber.

[jaymz]

.50 cal damage is dependent on what source you are using. In the Modern Weapons Compendium a .50 cal round does (at least the machine gun round) does 1d6x10+10 per round.

I take that is machine gun damage to account for the higher cyclic rates. You will notice that there are variations throughout the Compendium for weapon systems of the same caliber, specifically the 7.62mm rifles and machine guns. Even the .50 caliber multi-barrel machine gun is listed as 2D6x10+10.

When you look up the round in the front of the Compendium it is listed as 1D4X10+10. This would be more in line with Mantiskings statement of 8D6. I think I am actually going to go with this damage as it will open up damage ratings for rounds in between the 7.62mm and .50 caliber.

Actually my copy shows heavy and heavy caliber machine gun as 1d6x10 and 1d6x10+10 respectively and hte 1d4x10 (there is no 1d4x10+10 in mine) as a light machine gun (which is in line with an M-60 7.62mm's 6d6 damage). I always looked at the .50 gatling as a typo but that's just me.....mine is a first p[rinting so maybe they changed it in later printings....

[Desert Rat]

Actually my copy shows heavy and heavy caliber machine gun as 1d6x10 and 1d6x10+10 respectively and hte 1d4x10 (there is no 1d4x10+10 in mine) as a light machine gun (which is in line with an M-60 7.62mm's 6d6 damage). I always looked at the .50 gatling as a typo but that's just me.....mine is a first p[rinting so maybe they changed it in later printings....

Mine is a 4th Print and my mistake, the damage is 1D4x10. I am not basing the damage off of the Machine gun types but rather the individual bullet. If you look at the front of the book at the Rifle Cartridge & Damage (mine is page 10) you will see that the individual cartridge is given a damage rating of 8. This is then compared to the General Damage Rating's table on page 9. Now this could be an oversight, but I chalk it up to the difference between a single shot sniper rifle versus a heavy machine gun spewing 600 rounds per minute versus a multi-barrel machine gun raining death at 8,000 rounds per minute all the while trying to give the PC's a fighting chance to survive. Let's face it, a .50 caliber round striking anywhere on the body and your dead. If it doesn't sever a limb or chew a chunk out of the torso that will look like a shark bite, the shock is going to kill you immediately afterward.

Consider also that when I GM, all penetrating and kinetic damage bypasses SDC and is applied directly to HP's. Only blunt force trauma is applied to SDC. Not trying to argue with you or be a rule-Nazi so to speak, rather offering up how I interpret it all.

[jaymz]

Actually my copy shows heavy and heavy caliber machine gun as 1d6x10 and 1d6x10+10 respectively and hte 1d4x10 (there is no 1d4x10+10 in mine) as a light machine gun (which is in line with an M-60 7.62mm's 6d6 damage). I always looked at the .50 gatling as a typo but that's just me.....mine is a first p[rinting so maybe they changed it in later printings....

Mine is a 4th Print and my mistake, the damage is 1D4x10. I am not basing the damage off of the Machine gun types but rather the individual bullet. If you look at the front of the book at the Rifle Cartridge & Damage (mine is page 10) you will see that the individual cartridge is given a damage rating of 8. This is then compared to the General Damage Rating's table on page 9. Now this could be an oversight, but I chalk it up to the difference between a single shot sniper rifle versus a heavy machine gun spewing 600 rounds per minute versus a multi-barrel machine gun raining death at 8,000 rounds per minute all the while trying to give the PC's a fighting chance to survive. Let's face it, a .50 caliber round striking anywhere on the body and your dead. If it doesn't sever a limb or chew a chunk out of the torso that will look like a shark bite, the shock is going to kill you immediately afterward.

Consider also that when I GM, all penetrating and kinetic damage bypasses SDC and is applied directly to HP's. Only blunt force trauma is applied to SDC. Not trying to argue with you or be a rule-Nazi so to speak, rather offering up how I interpret it all.

NO worries I am not taking any offense to it but the problem lies then in the fact the book is essentially contradicting itself by listing the damage as a rating 8 while calling hte gun/round in question in its entry later on as a heavy machine gun. You can't have it both ways and hte damage values are not for the bursts/cyclic rates. The entire book aside from them is listing per round damage. It just shows the poor management of consistency throughout the book IMO. A 7.62 NATO round should do the exact same damage per round regardless of weapon type. Therefore the AR-10 and M-60 SHOULDhave the same damage per round. They don't. AT least by the Compendium. It is hte same bullet. Cyclic rate is only important in determining how many rtounds can be fire per melee in order to determine the number of rounds that can be fired in the tdifferent types of burts and depending on the size of the ammo available. It is hte bursts sizes that change the damage not the cyclic rates.

[Desert Rat]

I get what you are saying and personally prefer a slight bit more complexity to add more 'realism'. Although, I think PB is looking more at their market audience and writing to the lowest common denominator of the majority of their consumers. It's easy for me to to figure out my PC who goes full auto with his M4:

Cyclic Rate: 700-950 rounds per minute or 15 rounds per second.
5 attacks per melee or 1 attack per 3 seconds = empty mag.
Roll d20+D10 to determine the number of rounds on target x 5D6.

For a lot of people, they like a simple streamlined game which is easy to represent. Whats the difference between an .50 caliber machine gun and a .50 caliber multi-barrel....one does more damage then the other. Frustrating for the rest of us? Yes, but that's why I have my own set of modern combat rules.

[jaymz]

I get what you are saying and personally prefer a slight bit more complexity to add more 'realism'. Although, I think PB is looking more at their market audience and writing to the lowest common denominator of the majority of their consumers. It's easy for me to to figure out my PC who goes full auto with his M4:

Cyclic Rate: 700-950 rounds per minute or 15 rounds per second.
5 attacks per melee or 1 attack per 3 seconds = empty mag.
Roll d20+D10 to determine the number of rounds on target x 5D6.

For a lot of people, they like a simple streamlined game which is easy to represent. Whats the difference between an .50 caliber machine gun and a .50 caliber multi-barrel....one does more damage then the other. Frustrating for the rest of us? Yes, but that's why I have my own set of modern combat rules.

You and me both, whihc mine takes the damage per round into account first and foremost (IE the .50 cal gatling does the same per round damage as the .50 cal mg but will do more damage total due to more round being fired)

[Mantisking]

I found a few more weapons I'm going to have to convert -- courtesy of the Dead Reign sub-board.

Kel-Tec KSG, the Neostead Mk.2?

Taurus Raging Judge Revolver.

[jaymz]

I found a few more weapons I'm going to have to convert -- courtesy of the Dead Reign sub-board.

Kel-Tec KSG, the Neostead Mk.2?

Taurus Raging Judge Revolver.

I had almost forgot about this thread when posting the Judge elsewhere...

[Mantisking]

Finally!

Chiappa Rhino
An innovative revolver design that has the barrel located in line with the bottom of the cylinder to reduce felt recoil.
Country: Italy
Cartridge: .357 Magnum
Feed: 6 chamber cylinder
Weight: 2.06 pounds (0.94 kilograms)
Overall Length: 10.5 inches (26.7 centimeters)
Barrel Length: 6 inches (15.24 centimeters)
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown.
Approx. Effective Range: 200 feet (61 meters)
Rate of Fire: One (1) (Revolver).
Damage: 4D6
Cost: $980

Designer's Notes:

• They finally released information on these puppies.
• Still no Muzzle Velocity info though.

[jaymz]

Finally!

Chiappa Rhino
An innovative revolver design that has the barrel located in line with the bottom of the cylinder to reduce felt recoil.
Country: Italy
Cartridge: .357 Magnum
Feed: 6 chamber cylinder
Weight: 2.06 pounds (0.94 kilograms)
Overall Length: 10.5 inches (26.7 centimeters)
Barrel Length: 6 inches (15.24 centimeters)
Muzzle Velocity: ___ fps ( ___ meters/second)
Approx. Effective Range: 200 feet (61 meters)
Damage: 4D6
Cost: $980

Designer's Notes:

• They finally released information on these puppies.
• Still no Muzzle Velocity info though.

AND it look sREALLY cool too!

[Mantisking]

Constitution Arms Palm Pistol
A single shot weapon designed for use by seniors or people with disabilities that may prevent them from using a standard firearm. It is also small enough to be concealed easily.
Country: United States
Cartridge: .38 Special
Feed: 1 round tube.
Weight: Unknown.
Overall Length: 3.8 inches (9.65 centimeters)
Barrel Length: 0.78 inches (1.98 centimeters)
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown.
Approx. Effective Range: 5 feet (1.52 meters)
Rate of Fire: One (1) (Single Shot).
Damage: 2D6
Cost: $300

Designer's Notes:

• Most of the info is from the website.
• Still no Muzzle Velocity info though.

[Mantisking]

I have no idea what to make of this. But, I'm almost tempted to try and stat it out.

[Mantisking]

Kel-Tec KSG
This is a pump-action, bullpup shotgun that has two tube magazines. A manual switch is uses to choose between the magazines. Different types of ammunition could be loaded into each magazine increasing the tactical uses of this weapon.
Country: United States
Cartridge: 12 Gauge
Feed: Two 7 round tubes (14 rounds total).
Weight: 6.9 pounds (3.13 kilograms)
Overall Length: 26.1 inches (66.29 centimeters)
Barrel Length: 18.5 inches (46.99 centimeters)
Muzzle Velocity: ??? fps ( ??? meters/second)
Approx. Effective Range: 100 feet (30.5 meters)
Rate of Fire: One (1) (Pump Action).
Damage: 4D6 (buckshot), 5D6 (slug)
Cost: $880

Designer's Notes:

• Most of the info is from the promotional material.
• Once again, no Muzzle Velocity info.
• The range is from the N&S book, which is B.S. as I've seen video of a 12 ga. slug gun hitting a target at 230 yards.

[jaymz]

The range is from the N&S book, which is B.S. as I've seen video of a 12 ga. slug gun hitting a target at 230 yards.[/list]

Yah but was that with buckshot or a solid slug? I qoud htink a Solid slug woudl go further than buck all things considered.

[Mantisking]

The range is from the N&S book, which is B.S. as I've seen video of a 12 ga. slug gun hitting a target at 230 yards.

Yah but was that with buckshot or a solid slug? I qoud htink a Solid slug woudl go further than buck all things considered.

Well, according to Box o' Truth, that distance makes sense for buckshot.

[Mantisking]

Taurus Raging Judge
This is an upgraded version of Taurus' Judge pistol. Instead of .410 shotshells this fires 28 gauge shotshells.
Country: Brazil.
Cartridge: 28 Gauge.
Feed: Five (5) chamber cylinder.
Weight: 4.19 pounds (1.9 kilograms).
Overall Length: 13.75 inches (34.93 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 6.5 inches (16.51 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: ??? fps ( ??? meters/second).
Approx. Effective Range: 100 feet (30.5 meters).
Rate of Fire: One (1) (Revolver).
Damage: 2D6 (buckshot), 3D6 (slug).
Cost: Unknown.

Designer's Notes:

• All of the info is from here.
• Once again, no Muzzle Velocity info.
• Then again, the gun may not be real.
• The range is from the N&S book.
• The damage is conjecture on my part.

[Mantisking]

I stumbled across these today and felt they should be written up even though they were only prototypes. They're both small enough and useful enough to be great for N&S games.

Magpul PDR-C
This weapon is designed for use by armor crews and support personnel. Instead of using unique calibers and magazines like other PDWs, this one uses NATO standard ammunition and magazines for compatibility and proven ballistics. This version is smaller and more concealable than the "D" version with a streamlined design so it won't snag on clothing.
Country: United States.
Cartridge: 5.56 NATO.
Feed: Twenty (20) round detachable magazine.
Weight: 3.5 pounds (1.59 kilograms).
Overall Length: 18 inches (45.72 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 10.5 inches (26.67 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown.
Approx. Effective Range: 300 feet (91.5 meters).
Rate of Fire: One (1) (Semi-Automatic).
Damage: 4D6.
Cost: Unknown.

Magpul PDR-D
This weapon is designed for use by armor crews and support personnel. Instead of using unique calibers and magazines like other PDWs, this one uses NATO standard ammunition and magazines for compatibility and proven ballistics. This version is larger and designed more for outright combat than the "C" version. It has a forward vertical grip and a full sized pistol grip.
Country: United States.
Cartridge: 5.56 NATO.
Feed: Twenty (20) round detachable magazine.
Weight: 4.0 pounds (1.82 kilograms).
Overall Length: 20 inches (50.8 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 12.5 inches (31.75 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown.
Approx. Effective Range: 300 feet (91.5 meters).
Rate of Fire: One (1) (Semi-Automatic) / Three (3) (Limited Burst).
Damage: 4D6.
Cost: Unknown.

Designer's Notes:

• All of the info is from here.
• Once again, no Muzzle Velocity info.
• The gun was only a prototype.
• The damage is conjecture on my part.

[Hibik]

A bit late chiming in, but as far as shotgun goes, I would argue effective range for buckshot would be dictated not only by the type of shot, but the choke as well. The guy in the test is firing a cylinder bore, no choke. There is effectively no constriction in the barrel, and while the buckshot is hitting at 45 yards, the spread is large enough where a target may only get hit with one or two pellets. Granted, combat shotguns I'm not sure need much of a choke. Now, if someone were to equip a shotgun with a choke for combat purposes (with a sample chart here you end up with a tighter pattern that increases the effective range due to larger chance of hits. Or you could say screw it and go with a slug.

The muzzle velocity thing on shotguns is a tricky question because it depends a lot on what you load it with as well as barrel (more so the former than the latter seemingly). I did find a chart that plots it out based upon load.

[Desert Rat]

Muzzle Velocity: While interesting to know, it is pretty much irrelevant to the player. One needs a deep understanding of weapons before that information becomes useful an it really only effects game design.

I see where you (or someone else) got the information regarding what you listed as the maximum effective range, but I would argue that the numbers you posted are rather inaccurate in both reality and game purposes. The .pdf file by Magpul has the neat little graphic on effective range (shot placement) which puts the PDR at just over 300', but you will also notice that they put a 20" barrel at 500' or ~266m. I understand the logic, but if you use these statistics you will need to apply them across all weapons and rewrite all modern weapons for the game. One will also note that on page 6 of the .pdf they list the Maximum Effective Range as ~300 yards which is about right for a 5.56mm rifle with a 14.5" barrel. A 10.5" barrel has a Maximum Effective Range of about 250 meters.

I would leave damage at whatever is standard in your game for 5.56mm as PB has two different damage ratings for that caliber. The truth is that the rifling within the barrel affects accuracy and damage. If we stick with the M16 model, the original rifle was a 1:14 rifling. That's one twist over 14". During Viet Nam we saw a round which caused massive internal damage to the target as it started tumbling upon entry. In an effort to increase the accuracy of today's combat rifle they have tightened the twist to 1:7. We get substantially further capability, but that tight spin caused by the rifling now punches through the target like a hot needle causing less damage. So a Viet Nam era M16 would have a Damage Rating of 4D6 with a Maximum Effective Range of 300m and today's M16A4 would have a Damage Rating of 3D6 with a Maximum Effective Range of 550m. As most GM's/PC's do not take into consideration of the proportional affects of range unless making the "long shot", this is all irrelevant and players are going to go for the rifle with the higher damage.

[Mantisking]

A bit late chiming in, but as far as shotgun goes, I would argue effective range for buckshot would be dictated not only by the type of shot, but the choke as well. The guy in the test is firing a cylinder bore, no choke. There is effectively no constriction in the barrel, and while the buckshot is hitting at 45 yards, the spread is large enough where a target may only get hit with one or two pellets. Granted, combat shotguns I'm not sure need much of a choke. Now, if someone were to equip a shotgun with a choke for combat purposes (with a sample chart here you end up with a tighter pattern that increases the effective range due to larger chance of hits. Or you could say screw it and go with a slug.

I know chokes tighten up patterning, but I'm not sure I want to add another layer of complexity to shotguns. Besides, if you're going to use slugs or some sort of exotic round (tear gas, etc.) you don't want to have a choke in the barrel.

The muzzle velocity thing on shotguns is a tricky question because it depends a lot on what you load it with as well as barrel (more so the former than the latter seemingly). I did find a chart that plots it out based upon load.

Muzzle Velocity: While interesting to know, it is pretty much irrelevant to the player. One needs a deep understanding of weapons before that information becomes useful an it really only effects game design.

Yeah, it's useless info because so many variables effect the final number. I'm just trying to match the format in N&S. I've been very tempted to just leave it out though.

I see where you (or someone else) got the information regarding what you listed as the maximum effective range, but I would argue that the numbers you posted are rather inaccurate in both reality and game purposes. The .pdf file by Magpul has the neat little graphic on effective range (shot placement) which puts the PDR at just over 300', but you will also notice that they put a 20" barrel at 500' or ~266m. I understand the logic, but if you use these statistics you will need to apply them across all weapons and rewrite all modern weapons for the game. One will also note that on page 6 of the .pdf they list the Maximum Effective Range as ~300 yards which is about right for a 5.56mm rifle with a 14.5" barrel. A 10.5" barrel has a Maximum Effective Range of about 250 meters.

I was the one who wrote them up. I do my own grunt-work. I did miss the entry on page six and based the range on the handy little chart.

I would leave damage at whatever is standard in your game for 5.56mm as PB has two different damage ratings for that caliber. The truth is that the rifling within the barrel affects accuracy and damage. If we stick with the M16 model, the original rifle was a 1:14 rifling. That's one twist over 14". During Viet Nam we saw a round which caused massive internal damage to the target as it started tumbling upon entry. In an effort to increase the accuracy of today's combat rifle they have tightened the twist to 1:7. We get substantially further capability, but that tight spin caused by the rifling now punches through the target like a hot needle causing less damage. So a Viet Nam era M16 would have a Damage Rating of 4D6 with a Maximum Effective Range of 300m and today's M16A4 would have a Damage Rating of 3D6 with a Maximum Effective Range of 550m. As most GM's/PC's do not take into consideration of the proportional affects of range unless making the "long shot", this is all irrelevant and players are going to go for the rifle with the higher damage.

I've heard that about the rifling. Which is probably why people at the sharp end of the stick are asking for the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC rounds.

[Desert Rat]

I've heard that about the rifling. Which is probably why people at the sharp end of the stick are asking for the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC rounds.

Or you just do what I do and go with the 77gr. Mk262 Mod 1. It's the 5.56mm LR (Long Range) round for the Mk12 SPR. You get greater accuracy and a heavier round to pack a little more punch. Besides, the services will never adopt an non-NATO round for wide-spread use. If there is ever to be change, it will be to a battle rifle with a 7.62mm round.

[Mantisking]

I've heard that about the rifling. Which is probably why people at the sharp end of the stick are asking for the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC rounds.

Or you just do what I do and go with the 77gr. Mk262 Mod 1. It's the 5.56mm LR (Long Range) round for the Mk12 SPR. You get greater accuracy and a heavier round to pack a little more punch. Besides, the services will never adopt an non-NATO round for wide-spread use. If there is ever to be change, it will be to a battle rifle with a 7.62mm round.

Okay that's just a little over my head at the moment. I've got a bunch of things rattling around my brain currently and firearms is only one of them.

[Mantisking]

Accuracy International AW Weapons System
AI is a company trying to build the best sniper rifles in the world. Incorporating knowledge gained from Olympic/international target shooting into military grade platforms, these weapons are designed and built for optimal performance in demanding tactical environments.

AW 243
Country: United Kingdom.
Cartridge: .243.
Feed: Ten (10) round detachable magazine.
Weight: 14.5 pounds (6.58 kilograms).
Overall Length: 44 inches (112 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 24 inches (60.96 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown.
Approx. Effective Range: 1800 feet (550 meters).
Rate of Fire: One (1)(Bolt Action).
Damage: 4D6.
Cost: $5,587.

AW 308
This version has three different barrel lengths.
Country: United Kingdom.
Cartridge: .308
Feed: Ten (10) round detachable magazine.
Weight: 13.5 (6.13 kilograms) / 14.5 pounds (6.58 kilograms) / 14 pounds (6.36 kilograms).
Overall Length: 40 inches (102 centimeters) / 44 inches (112 centimeters) / 46 inches (118 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 20 inches (50.8 centimeters) / 24 inches (60.96 centimeters) / 26 inches (66.04 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown.
Approx. Effective Range: 1800 feet (550 meters) / 2100 feet (600 meters) / 3300 feet (1000 meters).
Rate of Fire: One (1)(Bolt Action).
Damage: 5D6.
Cost: $5,587 / $5,875 / $5,980.

AW 308 Suppressed
The suppressor unit consists of a 16" barrel housed in a suppressor of 28" overall length. It can shoot both subsonic and supersonic rounds. The range is 1500 ft. (450m) with supersonic ammunition.
Country: United Kingdom.
Cartridge: .308
Feed: Ten (10) round detachable magazine.
Weight: 16 pounds (7.26 kilograms).
Overall Length: 48.5 inches (123.19 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 16 inches (40.64 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown.
Approx. Effective Range: 600 feet (180 meters).
Rate of Fire: One (1)(Bolt Action).
Damage: 5D6.
Cost: Unknown.

AW 300
Country: United Kingdom.
Cartridge: .300 Winchester Magnum.
Feed: Five (5) round detachable magazine.
Weight: 14.3 pounds (6.49 kilograms).
Overall Length: 47 inches (120 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 26 inches (66.04 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown.
Approx. Effective Range: 3900 feet (1200 meters).
Rate of Fire: One (1)(Bolt Action).
Damage: 5D6.
Cost: $6,539.

AW 338
Country: United Kingdom.
Cartridge: .338 Lapua Magnum.
Feed: Five (5) round detachable magazine.
Weight: 15.1 pounds (6.86 kilograms).
Overall Length: 48.5 inches (123.19 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 27 inches (68.58 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown.
Approx. Effective Range: 4800 feet (1500 meters).
Rate of Fire: One (1)(Bolt Action).
Damage: 6D6.
Cost: $6,580.

Designer's Notes:

• All of the info is from here.
• Pricing info is from here.
• Once again, no Muzzle Velocity info.
• The damage is based on previous weapons of similar calibers.

[Mantisking]

Neopup PAW-20
This Personal Assault Weapon was developed as a direct fire grenade launcher and competitor to the XM-25. While it is a GL, W.P. Rifle or W.P. Assault Rifle are sufficient to use it. It has an odd layout with the pistol grip being on the right side of the weapon and the casings ejecting to the left. It also has a fairly hefty recoil. If a W.P. is taken in this specific weapon it will eliminate the penalty to Strike.
Country: South Africa.
Cartridge: 20x42mm.
Feed: Seven (7) round detachable box magazine, or six (6) round detachable rotary magazine.
Weight: 12.98 pounds (5.9 kilograms).
Overall Length: 33.3 inches (84.58 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 14 inches (35.56 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: 984 fps (299.92 m/s).
Approx. Effective Range: 1968.5 feet (600 meters).
Rate of Fire: One (1)(Semi-automatic).
Damage: 8D6.
Penalties: -1 to Strike due to heavy recoil.
Cost: Unknown.

Designer's Notes:

• All of the info is from here and here.
• The damage is a guess.
• The damage may also be modified for the High Explosive and HE-Incendiary rounds.

[Mantisking]

Neopup PAW-20
This Personal Assault Weapon was developed as a direct fire grenade launcher and competitor to the XM-25. While it is a GL, W.P. Rifle or W.P. Assault Rifle are sufficient to use it. It has an odd layout with the pistol grip being on the right side of the weapon and the casings ejecting to the left. It also has a fairly hefty recoil. If a W.P. is taken in this specific weapon it will eliminate the penalty to Strike.
Country: South Africa.
Cartridge: 20x42mm.
Feed: Seven (7) round detachable box magazine, or six (6) round detachable rotary magazine.
Weight: 12.98 pounds (5.9 kilograms).
Overall Length: 33.3 inches (84.58 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 14 inches (35.56 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: 984 fps (299.92 m/s).
Approx. Effective Range: 1968.5 feet (600 meters).
Rate of Fire: One (1)(Semi-automatic).
Damage: 8D6.
Penalties: -1 to Strike due to heavy recoil.
Cost: Unknown.

Designer's Notes:

• All of the info is from here and here.
• The damage is a guess.
• The damage may also be modified for the High Explosive and HE-Incendiary rounds.

After watching another video I'm going to call the 8D6 damage the Semi-Armor Piercing (SAP) round. I'm also going to say the High Explosive (HE) round does 1D4x50 damage, and the High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) does 1D4x25 damage (with a % of causing a fire). I'm still thinking about the SAPHEI round.

[Mantisking]

In a search to get more power out of the standard M4 carbine system, a switch to heavier calibers that still function within the action was attempted. This has led to several modified M4s loading wildcat calibers.

Rock River Arms CAR4
This weapon uses Teppo Jutsu's 458 SOCOM round.
Country: United States.
Cartridge: .458 SOCOM.
Feed: 7, 10, or 15 round detachable magazines.
Weight: 7.6 pounds (3.45 kilograms).
Overall Length: 36 inches (91.44 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 16 inches (40.64 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: 2,000 fps (609.6 meters/second).
Approx. Effective Range: 1800 feet (548.64 meters).
Damage: 6D6.
Cost: $1,150.

Alexander Arms AWS
This weapon uses Alexander Arms's 50 Beowulf round.
Country: United States.
Cartridge: .50 Beowulf.
Feed: 4, 7, or 10 round detachable magazine.
Weight: 7.23 pounds (3.28 kilograms).
Overall Length: 34.5 inches (87.63 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 16 inches (40.64 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: 1,950 fps (594.36 meters/second).
Approx. Effective Range: 600 feet (182.88 meters).
Damage: 6D6.
Cost: $1,450.

Excalibur Arms LW15
This weapon uses the Leitner-Wise 499 LW round.
Country: United States.
Cartridge: .499 LW.
Feed: 10 or 12 round detachable magazine.
Weight: 7.3 pounds (3.31 kilograms).
Overall Length: 36 inches (91.44 centimeters).
Barrel Length: 18 inches (45.72 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: 2,200 fps (670.56 meters/second).
Approx. Effective Range: 1320 feet (402.34 meters).
Damage: 6D6.
Cost: $1,500.

Designer's Notes:

• Inspired by this article.
• Damage is a guess for all three weapons.
• CAR4 info taken from here.
• 50 Beowulf info taken from here.
• 50 Beowulf video.
• LW15 info taken from here.

[Mantisking]

Another weapon I stumbled across while net surfing. I felt it was a good choice of weapon to add the stats for 6.8mm SPC round to those available.

LWRC Int. PSD
This weapon is designed for use in personal protection situations for law enforcement/military personnel.
Country: United States.
Cartridge: 6.8 SPC.
Feed: 30 round detachable magazine.
Weight: 6.1 pounds (2.77 kilograms).
Overall Length: 25 inches (63.5 centimeters)(stock closed), 28.25 inches (71.76 centimeters)(stock extended).
Barrel Length: 8 inches (20.32 centimeters).
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown.
Rate of Fire: One (1)(Semi-automatic), Ten (10)(Automatic).
Approx. Effective Range: 984.25 feet (300 meters).
Damage: 3D8.
Cost: $2,675.

Designer's Notes:

• Basic information from here.
• Pricing from here.
• The damage is a guess, but I think it fits nicely into the already available range.

[Mantisking]

Norinco QLZ-87
This weapon is grenade launcher designed by the Chinese after experimenting with licensed copies of the Soviet AGS-17 grenade launcher and uses an operating system similar to the M-16. The pistol grip is offset to the right side and the gun has an integral bipod. The 6 and 15 round magazines are standard for this weapon. Each round weighs 0.55 pounds (0.25 kilograms).
Country: China.
Cartridge: 35x32mm SR.
Feed: 6, 9, 12, or 15 round detachable drum magazine.
Weight: 26.4 pounds (12 kilograms).
Overall Length: 38.19 inches (97 centimeters).
Barrel Length: Unknown.
Muzzle Velocity: 623.36 fps (190 m/s).
Rate of Fire: One (1)(Semi-automatic), Eight (8)(Automatic).
Approx. Effective Range: 1,968.5 feet (600 meters) .
Damage: 1D4x85, blast range 32.8 feet (10 meters).
Cost: Unknown.

Designer's Notes:

• Basic information from here and here.
• The damage is a guess.
• The automatic rate of fire is based on a one second burst.

[NMI]

Norinco QLZ-87
This weapon is grenade launcher designed by the Chinese after experimenting with licensed copies of the Soviet AGS-17 grenade launcher and uses an operating system similar to the M-16. The pistol grip is offset to the right side and the gun has an integral bipod. The 6 and 15 round magazines are standard for this weapon. Each round weighs 0.55 pounds (0.25 kilograms).
Country: China.
Cartridge: 35x32mm SR.
Feed: 6, 9, 12, or 15 round detachable drum magazine.
Weight: 26.4 pounds (12 kilograms).
Overall Length: 38.19 inches (97 centimeters).
Barrel Length: Unknown.
Muzzle Velocity: 623.36 fps (190 m/s).
Rate of Fire: One (1)(Semi-automatic), Eight (8)(Automatic).
Approx. Effective Range: 1,968.5 feet (600 meters) .
Damage: 1D4x85, blast range 32.8 feet (10 meters).
Cost: Unknown.

Designer's Notes:

• Basic information from here and here.
• The damage is a guess.
• The automatic rate of fire is based on a one second burst.

Damage: 1D4x85???

[Mantisking]

Damage: 1D4x85???

It's a 35mm grenade. a 40mm does 1D4x100. If you scale it down it actually comes out to 87.5, so I just rounded it down to 85.

[Jefffar]

For grenades and other explosive shells look at the weight of the HE charge in the projectile, not their calibre to determine damage.

[Mantisking]

For grenades and other explosive shells look at the weight of the HE charge in the projectile, not their calibre to determine damage.

True. A smaller projectile is going to hold a smaller explosive charge though. And from all accounts, it is smaller.

[Jefffar]

It could be longer. For example the Russian 30 mm grenades have a similar capacity to western 40 mm grenades.

I have yet to find a shell weight for the Chinese 35x114 mm grenade, but notably the western 40 mm high velocity grenade has a cartridge case of only 53 mm long, making it significantly longer overall.

[Mantisking]

It could be longer. For example the Russian 30 mm grenades have a similar capacity to western 40 mm grenades.

I have yet to find a shell weight for the Chinese 35x114 mm grenade, but notably the western 40 mm high velocity grenade has a cartridge case of only 53 mm long, making it significantly longer overall.

Are you refering to the 40mm being longer or the 35mm?

This is what I found for the weight.

The weight of complete 35mm round is about 250 gram,

From here, the last sentence of the paragraph.

[NMI]

Damage: 1D4x85???

It's a 35mm grenade. a 40mm does 1D4x100. If you scale it down it actually comes out to 87.5, so I just rounded it down to 85.

I think the damage has been scaled down in recent S.D.C. books.

[Jefffar]

It could be longer. For example the Russian 30 mm grenades have a similar capacity to western 40 mm grenades.

I have yet to find a shell weight for the Chinese 35x114 mm grenade, but notably the western 40 mm high velocity grenade has a cartridge case of only 53 mm long, making it significantly longer overall.

Are you refering to the 40mm being longer or the 35mm?

This is what I found for the weight.

The weight of complete 35mm round is about 250 gram,

From here, the last sentence of the paragraph.

Yeah the 35mm is longer, but the more important figure is the weight the explosive content. The 40 mm high velocity comes in at 340 grams, but only about 40 g of that is explosive, the rest is propellant, shell casing and fragmentation liner.