Who commands more power ?

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Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

barna10 wrote:
Mercdog wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:The other item you have to consider about your "41 attacks per melee" idea is if it was possible, the Splugorth would have exploited the idea already. Show me one R.C.C., O.C.C., or NPC that has anything near 41 attacks per melee (or even the 16 of the borg you mentioned).

25 of them have already been shown to you threw the Eye's of Eylor .. 5 attacks each .. 5 Eylor eyes...

16 of the Bio-Wizard creation is rather easily attained ..

+2 = Living being ..
+4 = Martial Arts H2H..
+2 = Added Human Appendages (x2)
+2 = Added None Human appendages (x2)
+2 = Retractable Mini Tenticals (x2)
+1 = Chest Amalgamate
+1 = Elom
+1 = Tail
+1 = Stinger.
16 total attacks for the creature .. And this is with out adding spell's which add even MORE attacks per melee !!

:lol:


Assuming that you've figured this for a 1st level character, aren't the "2 Attacks for Living" now fully incorporated into the Hand to Hand skills?

I don't have the books to check with me, but I'm pretty sure when the H2H attacks per melee were upped, KS had written that you were not supposed to add the old "2 attacks for Living" any longer.

Just an observation. Carry on.


True, I was thinking he was accounting for 15th level skill (that would be 7 attacks).

I may be wrong,

But I will check out the books for clarification on that. Would you happen to know which page ?
Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

You guys do not want to see a 15th lvl Bio-Borg .. decked out .. And with out any weapon systems (Melee or Ranged).. or carrying weapons.

Spoiler:
MDC : 1'980 .. or .. 7'060 (with spells)
Running speed : 2'400 MPH ..
Flying speed : 1'500 MPH ..
Attacks : 18 attacks .. 40 (with spells)
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

Lenwen wrote:You guys do not want to see a 15th lvl Bio-Borg .. decked out .. And with out any weapon systems (Melee or Ranged).. or carrying weapons.

Spoiler:
MDC : 1'980 .. or .. 7'060 (with spells)
Running speed : 2'400 MPH ..
Flying speed : 1'500 MPH ..
Attacks : 18 attacks .. 40 (with spells)


Actually I do, post a character sheet. Is this character by the book, or using house rules?

Ask yourself this: if this character is possible, why haven't the Splugorth (who are a tad bit smarter than you or me) fielded such troops? Why aren't the Powerlords as powerfull as your Bioborg?

If you want to compete with Monty Hall type characters, I can show you some doozies, but I think this debate should be as close to the book as possible.
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:
Mercdog wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:The other item you have to consider about your "41 attacks per melee" idea is if it was possible, the Splugorth would have exploited the idea already. Show me one R.C.C., O.C.C., or NPC that has anything near 41 attacks per melee (or even the 16 of the borg you mentioned).

25 of them have already been shown to you threw the Eye's of Eylor .. 5 attacks each .. 5 Eylor eyes...

16 of the Bio-Wizard creation is rather easily attained ..

+2 = Living being ..
+4 = Martial Arts H2H..
+2 = Added Human Appendages (x2)
+2 = Added None Human appendages (x2)
+2 = Retractable Mini Tenticals (x2)
+1 = Chest Amalgamate
+1 = Elom
+1 = Tail
+1 = Stinger.
16 total attacks for the creature .. And this is with out adding spell's which add even MORE attacks per melee !!

:lol:


Assuming that you've figured this for a 1st level character, aren't the "2 Attacks for Living" now fully incorporated into the Hand to Hand skills?

I don't have the books to check with me, but I'm pretty sure when the H2H attacks per melee were upped, KS had written that you were not supposed to add the old "2 attacks for Living" any longer.

Just an observation. Carry on.


True, I was thinking he was accounting for 15th level skill (that would be 7 attacks).

I may be wrong,

But I will check out the books for clarification on that. Would you happen to know which page ?


If you are talking about the "2 attacks for being human and 4 attacks for h-h martial arts" at first level, then yes, you are wrong. Check out R:UE, about a hundred threads on this forum, many Rifters, and so forth. The rules are everywhere.
Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

barna10 wrote:
Lenwen wrote:You guys do not want to see a 15th lvl Bio-Borg .. decked out .. And with out any weapon systems (Melee or Ranged).. or carrying weapons.

Spoiler:
MDC : 1'980 .. or .. 7'060 (with spells)
Running speed : 2'400 MPH ..
Flying speed : 1'500 MPH ..
Attacks : 18 attacks .. 40 (with spells)


Actually I do, post a character sheet. Is this character by the book, or using house rules?

Ask yourself this: if this character is possible, why haven't the Splugorth (who are a tad bit smarter than you or me) fielded such troops? Why aren't the Powerlords as powerfull as your Bioborg?

If you want to compete with Monty Hall type characters, I can show you some doozies, but I think this debate should be as close to the book as possible.

Yes its by the book. Everything is by the book and legal.

But if You had not noticed, I did not equip the beasty with weapons of any type.

The Splugorth have not fielded such troops ? Who says you ? We know that Lord Splynn will not field such powerful creatures for he does not want to scare the Rifts earth nations .. by showing his true power an capabilities .. (thats canon)

But yes this is canon if you wish for the details I'll give them to you. And you can do the checking.

Bio-Borgs are generally given weapons as well .. weather its built into them or other ..
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

Lenwen wrote:Yes its by the book. Everything is by the book and legal.

But if You had not noticed, I did not equip the beasty with weapons of any type.

The Splugorth have not fielded such troops ? Who says you ? We know that Lord Splynn will not field such powerful creatures for he does not want to scare the Rifts earth nations .. by showing his true power an capabilities .. (thats canon)

But yes this is canon if you wish for the details I'll give them to you. And you can do the checking.

Bio-Borgs are generally given weapons as well .. weather its built into them or other ..


If it is by the book, then what about the sentence that reads "Next to the Splugorth, it is the High Lords that are the most powerful and feared?" Seems to me that a Bioborg more powerful than a Highlord Conservator is not canon...

Are you going to post this "Super-Bioborg" or what?
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

A question while we wait for Ubermensch, was this character RPed up to level 15, or just a "legal" creation?
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Mercdog »

Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:
Mercdog wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:The other item you have to consider about your "41 attacks per melee" idea is if it was possible, the Splugorth would have exploited the idea already. Show me one R.C.C., O.C.C., or NPC that has anything near 41 attacks per melee (or even the 16 of the borg you mentioned).

25 of them have already been shown to you threw the Eye's of Eylor .. 5 attacks each .. 5 Eylor eyes...

16 of the Bio-Wizard creation is rather easily attained ..

+2 = Living being ..
+4 = Martial Arts H2H..
+2 = Added Human Appendages (x2)
+2 = Added None Human appendages (x2)
+2 = Retractable Mini Tenticals (x2)
+1 = Chest Amalgamate
+1 = Elom
+1 = Tail
+1 = Stinger.
16 total attacks for the creature .. And this is with out adding spell's which add even MORE attacks per melee !!

:lol:


Assuming that you've figured this for a 1st level character, aren't the "2 Attacks for Living" now fully incorporated into the Hand to Hand skills?

I don't have the books to check with me, but I'm pretty sure when the H2H attacks per melee were upped, KS had written that you were not supposed to add the old "2 attacks for Living" any longer.

Just an observation. Carry on.


True, I was thinking he was accounting for 15th level skill (that would be 7 attacks).

I may be wrong,

But I will check out the books for clarification on that. Would you happen to know which page ?


I'm not near my books, but I'm almost positive it was in the Rifts GMG near the start of the H2H descriptions. I'll have to check my RUE, but I don't remember the 2 attacks fer livin' being mentioned in it.
Blade with whom I have lived.
Blade with whom I now die.
Serve right and justice one last time.
Seek one last heart of evil.
Still one last life of pain.
Cut well old friend...
and then farewell.
-Sir Orin Neville Smyth, Flight of Dragons
Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

Intolerance wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Sunu wrote: Define power?

In this question Power is which class can out create the other class for pourpose of overall badass -ness ... :lol:


Sunu wrote:The average Bio-wizard is going to have the backing of an empire most likely.

I've already stated , Each will be using just what they need from thier respective classes to be able to create items/borgs ..

Sunu wrote:As is stands in game terms I guess the Bio-wizard would have more power.

There, see it was not as difficult as you had thought it would be :P

Sunu wrote:But then again this is a very open ended question.

Actually its not .

Take 1 Bio-Wizard ..

Take 1 Techno-Wizard ..

Now see which of them commands more overall power .. total. :)


Okay, Lets look at this logistically... at the WEAKEST a Bio-Wizard is a Splugorth High-Lord.

How do you weaken a HighLord to effectively kill it with the least amount of effort. - Anti-Magic Cloud... cuts off its access to its suits spells and abilities. And Range.

So, lets assume this is an arena situation.

High-Lord versus Human Techno-Wizard, 300ft starting base, no preperation... FIGHT!

HighLord, being a supernatural creature relies on his abilities an "gifted" equipment from the Splugorth overminds. First action would be to plan defensivly... activates its suits magical armor.

Technowizard, who has mundane or even TW Mundane armor he created himself needs not to activate any magical armor, levels his Converted Missile Rifle, and a anti-magic cloud mini-missle at the highlord. Reducing his combat effectiveness to slim pickins even IF he saves. 1/2 strength.

High-Lord pulls his Bio-Wizard created weapon and begins to close the distance (Bio-Wizard melee weapons I am assuming would be immune to the AMC effect).

The Technowizard then activates his personal teleporter device, and goes up into the rafters to keep the range.

High-Lord, (if they cannot naturally teleport as a supernatural ability, any kind of flight/teleport spells would be hindered by the AMC) is now effectively useless and pulls a weakened Bio-Wizard ranged weapon of some sort, but realizes that since most of the "ranged" attacks from Bio-Wizard created weapons are actually cast spells stored in the device like, he is pretty useless.

The TW then proceeds to unleash ranged attacks on the High-Lord until dead.

Game over.

or "check mate"

Good scenario .. if your going against canon..

Anti-Magic Cloud negates Techno-Wizard items ..

So anything your TW tries to use .. (after the AMC) is negated .. and does in fact not work. (thats canon.)
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

Lenwen wrote:
Intolerance wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Sunu wrote: Define power?

In this question Power is which class can out create the other class for pourpose of overall badass -ness ... :lol:


Sunu wrote:The average Bio-wizard is going to have the backing of an empire most likely.

I've already stated , Each will be using just what they need from thier respective classes to be able to create items/borgs ..

Sunu wrote:As is stands in game terms I guess the Bio-wizard would have more power.

There, see it was not as difficult as you had thought it would be :P

Sunu wrote:But then again this is a very open ended question.

Actually its not .

Take 1 Bio-Wizard ..

Take 1 Techno-Wizard ..

Now see which of them commands more overall power .. total. :)


Okay, Lets look at this logistically... at the WEAKEST a Bio-Wizard is a Splugorth High-Lord.

How do you weaken a HighLord to effectively kill it with the least amount of effort. - Anti-Magic Cloud... cuts off its access to its suits spells and abilities. And Range.

So, lets assume this is an arena situation.

High-Lord versus Human Techno-Wizard, 300ft starting base, no preperation... FIGHT!

HighLord, being a supernatural creature relies on his abilities an "gifted" equipment from the Splugorth overminds. First action would be to plan defensivly... activates its suits magical armor.

Technowizard, who has mundane or even TW Mundane armor he created himself needs not to activate any magical armor, levels his Converted Missile Rifle, and a anti-magic cloud mini-missle at the highlord. Reducing his combat effectiveness to slim pickins even IF he saves. 1/2 strength.

High-Lord pulls his Bio-Wizard created weapon and begins to close the distance (Bio-Wizard melee weapons I am assuming would be immune to the AMC effect).

The Technowizard then activates his personal teleporter device, and goes up into the rafters to keep the range.

High-Lord, (if they cannot naturally teleport as a supernatural ability, any kind of flight/teleport spells would be hindered by the AMC) is now effectively useless and pulls a weakened Bio-Wizard ranged weapon of some sort, but realizes that since most of the "ranged" attacks from Bio-Wizard created weapons are actually cast spells stored in the device like, he is pretty useless.

The TW then proceeds to unleash ranged attacks on the High-Lord until dead.

Game over.

or "check mate"

Good scenario .. if your going against canon..

Anti-Magic Cloud negates Techno-Wizard items ..

So anything your TW tries to use .. is negated .. and does in fact not work. (thats canon.)


"Anything" is not exactly correct. The TW could still cast spells. He could cast any MD magic spell and destroy said High Lord as the High Lord is no longer an MDC critter (unless he makes his save). Check out the note under Anti-Magic Cloud in Rifts:UE. All of the Bioborg enhancements and the Highlord himself would become SDC (without the save.)
Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

barna10 wrote:
"Anything" is not exactly correct. The TW could still cast spells.

Yes the TW can still cast spells (as normal spells with the penalties) But can not use other TW devices as they are instantly negated .. as per the Spells description.


barna10 wrote:He could cast any MD magic spell and destroy said High Lord as the High Lord is no longer an MDC critter (unless he makes his save).

Actually .. Anti Magic Cloud does not state such a thing .. your clearly making this up now .. because your losing ground ..

barna10 wrote:Check out the note under Anti-Magic Cloud in Rifts:UE. All of the Bioborg enhancements and the Highlord himself would become SDC (without the save.)

I've read the Anti Magic Cloud in the book of magic several times and have it opened to the spell as we post, and it does not say what your trying to say it says ..

Good try tho.

You can not make a Creature of Magic / Supernatural Creature an SDC being .. threw the use of the Anti Magic Cloud.

In order to do so .. you need the Paradox spell "Universal Balance" .. but even then they get the 1MDC = 100 HP/SDC so a Dragon with 1900MDC now has 1900x100 in HP/SDC .. which is now 190'000 HP/SDC .. but now thier able to take damage threw SDC weapons .. for the duration of said spell..
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by runebeo »

Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:
"Anything" is not exactly correct. The TW could still cast spells.

Yes the TW can still cast spells (as normal spells with the penalties) But can not use other TW devices as they are instantly negated .. as per the Spells description.


barna10 wrote:He could cast any MD magic spell and destroy said High Lord as the High Lord is no longer an MDC critter (unless he makes his save).

Actually .. Anti Magic Cloud does not state such a thing .. your clearly making this up now .. because your losing ground ..

barna10 wrote:Check out the note under Anti-Magic Cloud in Rifts:UE. All of the Bioborg enhancements and the Highlord himself would become SDC (without the save.)

I've read the Anti Magic Cloud in the book of magic several times and have it opened to the spell as we post, and it does not say what your trying to say it says ..

Good try tho.

You can not make a Creature of Magic / Supernatural Creature an SDC being .. threw the use of the Anti Magic Cloud.

In order to do so .. you need the Paradox spell "Universal Balance" .. but even then they get the 1MDC = 100 HP/SDC so a Dragon with 1900MDC now has 1900x100 in HP/SDC .. which is now 190'000 HP/SDC .. but now thier able to take damage threw SDC weapons .. for the duration of said spell..



It's in the RUE version that says magical M.D.C. being become S.D.C. being in the cloud if they fail the save and half M.D.C. on a wining save.
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:
"Anything" is not exactly correct. The TW could still cast spells.

Yes the TW can still cast spells (as normal spells with the penalties) But can not use other TW devices as they are instantly negated .. as per the Spells description.


barna10 wrote:He could cast any MD magic spell and destroy said High Lord as the High Lord is no longer an MDC critter (unless he makes his save).

Actually .. Anti Magic Cloud does not state such a thing .. your clearly making this up now .. because your losing ground ..

barna10 wrote:Check out the note under Anti-Magic Cloud in Rifts:UE. All of the Bioborg enhancements and the Highlord himself would become SDC (without the save.)

I've read the Anti Magic Cloud in the book of magic several times and have it opened to the spell as we post, and it does not say what your trying to say it says ..

Good try tho.

You can not make a Creature of Magic / Supernatural Creature an SDC being .. threw the use of the Anti Magic Cloud.

In order to do so .. you need the Paradox spell "Universal Balance" .. but even then they get the 1MDC = 100 HP/SDC so a Dragon with 1900MDC now has 1900x100 in HP/SDC .. which is now 190'000 HP/SDC .. but now thier able to take damage threw SDC weapons .. for the duration of said spell..


You are correct, if we were having this argument 10 years ago. You need to readthe "note" included in the Rifts: UE as I said. It is an updated version of the spell. I will post here for you so that you can stop making stupid accusations like ".. Anti Magic Cloud does not state such a thing .. your clearly making this up now .. because your losing ground .. "

this is from pg. 221 of Rifts: Ultimate Edition (re-typed verbatim)

Note: The only bonuses a character may get to save vs. an Anti-Magic Cloud are those from a high P.E. attribute. Any bonuses that they would normally receive from any magical items or enchantments are not applicable. Characters get only ONE chance to save vs. an Anti-Magic Cloud once the Cloud is cast. Magical creatures who fail to save will find that their magic will not work at all. {this part is bolded for emphasis} Creatures that are normally Mega-Damage due to magic will become S.D.C. beings. Those who make their save vs. magic (at 18-20) see their M.D.C. reduced by half as long as they remain in the cloud. While under the effect of an Anti-Magic Cloud, rune and holy weapons will no longer be able to cast spells and lose their other intrinsic abilities (i.e. confer +1 to saving throws, telepathic link to wielder, etc.) however, they will retain their indestructibility and still inflict M.D.

P.S. If you want to say that I am making something up, proper English is "you're" not "your". That's just annoying.
Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

Intolerance wrote:
Wow.. so you were pre-disposed to your answer to begin with,

Actually having been military for the better part of a decade (in the past)

I know for a fact .. soldiers are not "allowed" to think for themselves... they are drilled to react a certain way that way is to react as your told by your commanding NCO/Officer.

You asked me a question .. I answered your question with the "I have been there I've seen it" fact ..

And you think my answer was pre-disposed ?
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

Lenwen wrote:
Intolerance wrote:
Wow.. so you were pre-disposed to your answer to begin with,

Actually having been military for the better part of a decade (in the past)

I know for a fact .. soldiers are not "allowed" to think for themselves... they are drilled to react a certain way that way is to react as your told by your commanding NCO/Officer.

You asked me a question .. I answered your question with the "I have been there I've seen it" fact ..

And you think my answer was pre-disposed ?


Ah...What? I'm a vet myself. Yes you follow orders, but you also have to think! What branch were you in? Were you ever in the Infantry? Mechanized? You are describing the most ineffective military ever! What you are describing is an outsider's stereotypical view of a jarhead, not an insiders knowledge of "real" soldiering.
Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

barna10 wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Intolerance wrote:
Wow.. so you were pre-disposed to your answer to begin with,

Actually having been military for the better part of a decade (in the past)

I know for a fact .. soldiers are not "allowed" to think for themselves... they are drilled to react a certain way that way is to react as your told by your commanding NCO/Officer.

You asked me a question .. I answered your question with the "I have been there I've seen it" fact ..

And you think my answer was pre-disposed ?


Ah...What? I'm a vet myself. Yes you follow orders, but you also have to think! What branch were you in? Were you ever in the Infantry? Mechanized? You are describing the most ineffective military ever! What you are describing is an outsider's stereotypical view of a jarhead, not an insiders knowledge of "real" soldiering.

7 years Ft Bragg .. 1998 - 2005.

And Nearly EVERY single mission I've ever been on .. I was never allowed to "think" on my own .. and once (op Cobra Gold) when I did think on my own I nearly caught a Art 15 ..

Those are facts ..
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

Let's see...

A scenario involving Lenwen's Army:

A squad of soldiers is heading to pull guard duty at a check point. Half-way there, mortar shells start dropping around them. Each soldier stands in place waiting for the squad leader to tell them what to do. He is trying to shout out commands, but he cannot be heard over the explosions. Because each of the soldiers was an exemplary Lenwen soldier, they stood in place, waiting for orders. One by one, their comrades are blown to bits around them, and still they stand their ground waiting for orders like they were trained to do. Now they are all dead and their deaths are used as a training tool to instruct other soldiers in the ways of the soldier and how important it is to not act unless you are commanded to do so.


A scenario involving a real world Army squad:

A squad of soldiers is heading to pull guard duty at a check point. Half-way there, mortar shells start dropping around them.
each soldier drops prone and start crawling for cover. Within seconds, each is in a ditch. The soldiers start looking for harder cover to protect themselves from impending doom. If two of them are near each other, they attempt to coordinate their movements. If a soldier is alone, he attempts to find shelter to weather the storm of explosions. After the barrage is over, the squad evaluates the damage, treats the wounded, and attempts to regroup. At this point, the Squad Leader devises a plan of action and the soldiers attempt to continue on their mission.
Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

barna10 wrote:Let's see...

A scenario involving Lenwen's Army:

A squad of soldiers is heading to pull guard duty at a check point. Half-way there, mortar shells start dropping around them. Each soldier stands in place waiting for the squad leader to tell them what to do. He is trying to shout out commands, but he cannot be heard over the explosions. Because each of the soldiers was an exemplary Lenwen soldier, they stood in place, waiting for orders. One by one, their comrades are blown to bits around them, and still they stand their ground waiting for orders like they were trained to do. Now they are all dead and their deaths are used as a training tool to instruct other soldiers in the ways of the soldier and how important it is to not act unless you are commanded to do so.


A scenario involving a real world Army squad:

A squad of soldiers is heading to pull guard duty at a check point. Half-way there, mortar shells start dropping around them.
each soldier drops prone and start crawling for cover. Within seconds, each is in a ditch. The soldiers start looking for harder cover to protect themselves from impending doom. If two of them are near each other, they attempt to coordinate their movements. If a soldier is alone, he attempts to find shelter to weather the storm of explosions. After the barrage is over, the squad evaluates the damage, treats the wounded, and attempts to regroup. At this point, the Squad Leader devises a plan of action and the soldiers attempt to continue on their mission.

LMAO !!

Great story .. but yet again .. completely taken outta context .. you an I know it .

Who sent those soldiers to do their "checks" And why did they not call in the attack in your "real world army squad ?

If you were prior military thats the first thing they would have done .. while attempting to get to cover .. not after ..

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Intolerance wrote:
Wow.. so you were pre-disposed to your answer to begin with,

Actually having been military for the better part of a decade (in the past)

I know for a fact .. soldiers are not "allowed" to think for themselves... they are drilled to react a certain way that way is to react as your told by your commanding NCO/Officer.

You asked me a question .. I answered your question with the "I have been there I've seen it" fact ..

And you think my answer was pre-disposed ?


Ah...What? I'm a vet myself. Yes you follow orders, but you also have to think! What branch were you in? Were you ever in the Infantry? Mechanized? You are describing the most ineffective military ever! What you are describing is an outsider's stereotypical view of a jarhead, not an insiders knowledge of "real" soldiering.

7 years Ft Bragg .. 1998 - 2005.

And Nearly EVERY single mission I've ever been on .. I was never allowed to "think" on my own .. and once (op Cobra Gold) when I did think on my own I nearly caught a Art 15 ..

Those are facts ..


What was your MOS? I'm betting PAC, Commo, or Mess. I doubt you were a combat MOS.

Amazing acomplishment, "almost" getting an article 15 in a training exercise. Ever adventure with Special Ops? Scouts? Rangers? Snipers?
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:Let's see...

A scenario involving Lenwen's Army:

A squad of soldiers is heading to pull guard duty at a check point. Half-way there, mortar shells start dropping around them. Each soldier stands in place waiting for the squad leader to tell them what to do. He is trying to shout out commands, but he cannot be heard over the explosions. Because each of the soldiers was an exemplary Lenwen soldier, they stood in place, waiting for orders. One by one, their comrades are blown to bits around them, and still they stand their ground waiting for orders like they were trained to do. Now they are all dead and their deaths are used as a training tool to instruct other soldiers in the ways of the soldier and how important it is to not act unless you are commanded to do so.


A scenario involving a real world Army squad:

A squad of soldiers is heading to pull guard duty at a check point. Half-way there, mortar shells start dropping around them.
each soldier drops prone and start crawling for cover. Within seconds, each is in a ditch. The soldiers start looking for harder cover to protect themselves from impending doom. If two of them are near each other, they attempt to coordinate their movements. If a soldier is alone, he attempts to find shelter to weather the storm of explosions. After the barrage is over, the squad evaluates the damage, treats the wounded, and attempts to regroup. At this point, the Squad Leader devises a plan of action and the soldiers attempt to continue on their mission.

LMAO !!

Great story .. but yet again .. completely taken outta context .. you an I know it .

Who sent those soldiers to do their "checks" And why did they not call in the attack in your "real world army squad ?

If you were prior military thats the first thing they would have done .. while attempting to get to cover .. not after ..

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yeeeeaaaahh. That makes sense. Call in an attack while in the middle of the road and fire is reigning down from above. Yes, I could have mentioned that they call in, and yes the soldiers were "following orders" by going to the check point. Big deal. At least I'm not bragging about "almost" getting in trouble during a training op. Hey, I once shot down a Russian Hind. Does it matter that it was in a training op and with blanks? No, I could just try and wow my fellow gamers with terms like "Cobra Gold", and "ART 15" so they think I'm cool. Give me a break.
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

Here's one for ya, Lenwen. Why did you spend 8 years at Bragg? Normal enlistments are 2,3,4, and 6 years. The Army frowns on re-upping for the same duty station. How exactly did you manage a 8 year stint at the same station?
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

barna10 wrote:Here's one for ya, Lenwen. Why did you spend 8 years at Bragg? Normal enlistments are 2,3,4, and 6 years. The Army frowns on re-upping for the same duty station. How exactly did you manage a 8 year stint at the same station?

3 year enlistment first enlistment to the 82nd Airborn Infantry ..

second enlistment was for 4 years .. again 82nd Airborn Infantry ..

as a condition of my sencond enlistment I was able to stay at Ft. Bragg.. and I was moved from Airborn Infantry to United states Special operations command. (it has its own compound on Ft. Bragg, tho technically its the same base its still considered a PCS, which I am sure you should know .. )
Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

barna10 wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Intolerance wrote:
Wow.. so you were pre-disposed to your answer to begin with,

Actually having been military for the better part of a decade (in the past)

I know for a fact .. soldiers are not "allowed" to think for themselves... they are drilled to react a certain way that way is to react as your told by your commanding NCO/Officer.

You asked me a question .. I answered your question with the "I have been there I've seen it" fact ..

And you think my answer was pre-disposed ?


Ah...What? I'm a vet myself. Yes you follow orders, but you also have to think! What branch were you in? Were you ever in the Infantry? Mechanized? You are describing the most ineffective military ever! What you are describing is an outsider's stereotypical view of a jarhead, not an insiders knowledge of "real" soldiering.

7 years Ft Bragg .. 1998 - 2005.

And Nearly EVERY single mission I've ever been on .. I was never allowed to "think" on my own .. and once (op Cobra Gold) when I did think on my own I nearly caught a Art 15 ..

Those are facts ..


What was your MOS? I'm betting PAC, Commo, or Mess. I doubt you were a combat MOS.

Amazing acomplishment, "almost" getting an article 15 in a training exercise. Ever adventure with Special Ops? Scouts? Rangers? Snipers?

The fact that you even ask this question .. while I gave you the operation name .. which is clearly a Ranger/SF op .. for Thailand theater ..

shows me that you do not know of what I am speaking ..
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

Lenwen wrote:The fact that you even ask this question .. while I gave you the operation name .. which is clearly a Ranger/SF op .. for Thailand theater ..

shows me that you do not know of what I am speaking ..


Yes, "clearly" you are avoiding answering some questions. Since I know several non-special ops folks that have participated in Cobra Gold. The fact that you went there only means you may have been attached to a unit that went. It proves nothing about your actual MOS which you seem to be refusing to give up. My brother-in-law went, and he was 88b (which I'm sure you know what that is) stationed at Ft. Sill. The Scout Platoon from my company also went along with a few of our S-2 guys (S-2 guys were MI, not Ranger or SF). Tell me how you going to a "Ranger/Special Forces" training op says anything about you? I have outright accused you of being a pencil-pusher that knows nothing about actual combat and you have yet to defend yourself. You keep infering credentials without actually providing any evidence. You are like oneof the "fake" soldiers that claims to have served in Vietnam to get sympathy or benefits. You throw around terms, dates, and names that give a tiny bit of credibility to your story so that you can perpetuate the illusion that you were some sort of hero. For all anyone knows you may have actually been to Cobra Gold, but you may have been in a guard unit (Engineer maybe?) that spent their 2 weeks there. 'fess up, what was your MOS? Where did you do your training? What weapons were you proficient in? Where did you get your airborne badge?

I'm also still waiting for the character sheet for "Super-Borg".
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

barna10 wrote:
Ever adventure with Special Ops? Scouts? Rangers? Snipers?

Op Cobra Gold is with Special Ops/Ranger Real world Training ..

I've already explained this to you. If I was in the 82nd Airborn Infantry division .. I was airborn infantry .. (Try not to put 2+2 together to often do ya ..)

I did training at Benning for MoS and Airborn school ..

Proficient in m4 carbine and the m249.. (some call it the saw)

As for where I got my airborn badge .. there is only one place in all the world where you get "tabbed" airborn .. thats Ft. Benning ..

I was just infantry .. then when I was PCS'ed to Usasoc, they cross trained me into a Engineer .. and thats after my second enlistment. (Thats how I went to Op Cobra Gold and rubbed elbows with the badasses)

Hope my history helps you in some small way .. :P
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Severite »

Just......good grief (who went where and did what is just, useless, you know?). Im curious in the bioborg abilities versus cost, myself. Unfortunately, I am away from many of my books as so often happens, but iirc, there is a limit to the amount of 'modifications' a body can take, but this is off memory that is literally years old. The other side of that, is that may be the cost for say me to go buy bio-augmentation, but is that neccessarily the price in house to make my own assuming I only had to aquire raw components? If the 64,000,000 credits price tag is direct cost, and since there is no other quantification given(again, iirc), we may as well go with it.....with the same amount of credits, I will have to give it to the tw, personally.
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Hystrix »

Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:
Ever adventure with Special Ops? Scouts? Rangers? Snipers?

Op Cobra Gold is with Special Ops/Ranger Real world Training ..

I've already explained this to you. If I was in the 82nd Airborn Infantry division .. I was airborn infantry .. (Try not to put 2+2 together to often do ya ..)

I did training at Benning for MoS and Airborn school ..

Proficient in m4 carbine and the m249.. (some call it the saw)

As for where I got my airborn badge .. there is only one place in all the world where you get "tabbed" airborn .. thats Ft. Benning ..

I was just infantry .. then when I was PCS'ed to Usasoc, they cross trained me into a Engineer .. and thats after my second enlistment. (Thats how I went to Op Cobra Gold and rubbed elbows with the badasses)

Hope my history helps you in some small way .. :P


Um, Lenwen, I'm not questioning your military experience, but the statment I bolded is just wrong. There are every kind of MOS in the 82nd. Every unit in the Army, infantry or otherwise, has support. So even in the 82nd (and what battalion were you in the 82nd again?), you have support troops, 42A, 56M, 68W, 63B etc... They are NOT all 11 series, and you know it...

And, yes, there is the whole, "no thought, seek clairification" thing, but unless you disobeying direct orders your not getting an Article 15 only because you "thought for yourself." There was obviously more to it, or you just had a screwed up command.

Again, not questioning your military experince, just felt the need to clairify things a little.
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by barna10 »

Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:
Ever adventure with Special Ops? Scouts? Rangers? Snipers?

Op Cobra Gold is with Special Ops/Ranger Real world Training ..

I've already explained this to you. If I was in the 82nd Airborn Infantry division .. I was airborn infantry .. (Try not to put 2+2 together to often do ya ..)

I did training at Benning for MoS and Airborn school ..

Proficient in m4 carbine and the m249.. (some call it the saw)

As for where I got my airborn badge .. there is only one place in all the world where you get "tabbed" airborn .. thats Ft. Benning ..

I was just infantry .. then when I was PCS'ed to Usasoc, they cross trained me into a Engineer .. and thats after my second enlistment. (Thats how I went to Op Cobra Gold and rubbed elbows with the badasses)

Hope my history helps you in some small way .. :P


Hey, moron, let me educate you. Um..the Amry hasn't used the m4 since Vietnam. "(some call it the saw)", EVERYONE IN THE ARMY CALLS IT THE SAW! Also, you don't get "cross-trained" at your duty station (man my side hurts). Quit lying! When I asked for your MOS, I expected it to be an easy answer. 11b That is the classification for straight-leg infantry that gets trained in the m16 (just like every other soldier for the last 40 years). Just because you were stationed at Bragg, DOES NOT MEAN YOU WERE INFANTRY. There is also Artilliery, Engineers, Cooks, Transport, Commo, Personnel, MI, Chemo, and any other other freaking solider needed to support the comabt troops. Grow Up and quit the BS.

Hey, everyone else reading this, sorry for the bs you guys are having to endure, but listen to me. People like Lenwen are pathetic. He's claiming to be something He's not and to have done things he hasn't. You can believe me or him, that is on you.
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Hystrix »

barna10 wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:
Ever adventure with Special Ops? Scouts? Rangers? Snipers?

Op Cobra Gold is with Special Ops/Ranger Real world Training ..

I've already explained this to you. If I was in the 82nd Airborn Infantry division .. I was airborn infantry .. (Try not to put 2+2 together to often do ya ..)

I did training at Benning for MoS and Airborn school ..

Proficient in m4 carbine and the m249.. (some call it the saw)

As for where I got my airborn badge .. there is only one place in all the world where you get "tabbed" airborn .. thats Ft. Benning ..

I was just infantry .. then when I was PCS'ed to Usasoc, they cross trained me into a Engineer .. and thats after my second enlistment. (Thats how I went to Op Cobra Gold and rubbed elbows with the badasses)

Hope my history helps you in some small way .. :P


Hey, moron, let me educate you. Um..the Amry hasn't used the m4 since Vietnam. "(some call it the saw)", EVERYONE IN THE ARMY CALLS IT THE SAW! Also, you don't get "cross-trained" at your duty station (man my side hurts). Quit lying! When I asked for your MOS, I expected it to be an easy answer. 11b That is the classification for straight-leg infantry that gets trained in the m16 (just like every other soldier for the last 40 years). Just because you were stationed at Bragg, DOES NOT MEAN YOU WERE INFANTRY. There is also Artilliery, Engineers, Cooks, Transport, Commo, Personnel, MI, Chemo, and any other other freaking solider needed to support the comabt troops. Grow Up and quit the BS.

Hey, everyone else reading this, sorry for the bs you guys are having to endure, but listen to me. People like Lenwen are pathetic. He's claiming to be something He's not and to have done things he hasn't. You can believe me or him, that is on you.


The M-4 carbine is very much in use. It is the shorter version of the M-16. The SAW is designated as the M-249.

Other than that, I agree.
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Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

barna10 wrote:
Hey, moron, let me educate you. Um..the Amry hasn't used the m4 since Vietnam.


Hystrix wrote:The M-4 carbine is very much in use.

Lets not try to name call people .. when we ourselves do not know what were talking about barna ..


barna10 wrote:
Hey, everyone else reading this, sorry for the bs you guys are having to endure, but listen to me. People like Lenwen are pathetic. He's claiming to be something He's not and to have done things he hasn't. You can believe me or him, that is on you.

Oh no .. some random guy that I proved wrong on a roll playing thread .. does not believe that I have done and was what I said I was ..

What ever shall I do ..

Lmao !!

Everyone who knows me personally knows exactly what I used to do and my entire military career .. Because you choose not to believe what I say does not make me any less then what I was ..
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Hystrix »

Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:
Hey, moron, let me educate you. Um..the Amry hasn't used the m4 since Vietnam.


Hystrix wrote:The M-4 carbine is very much in use.

Lets not try to name call people .. when we ourselves do not know what were talking about barna ..


barna10 wrote:
Hey, everyone else reading this, sorry for the bs you guys are having to endure, but listen to me. People like Lenwen are pathetic. He's claiming to be something He's not and to have done things he hasn't. You can believe me or him, that is on you.

Oh no .. some random guy that I proved wrong on a roll playing thread .. does not believe that I have done and was what I said I was ..

What ever shall I do ..

Lmao !!

Everyone who knows me personally knows exactly what I used to do and my entire military career .. Because you choose not to believe what I say does not make me any less then what I was ..



Well, barna10 was wrong on the M-4 thing, but he was dead on on the whole MOS thing. There isn't a division, brigade, or Battatlion sized element in the army that is composed of just one MOS. You talked about being in the 82nd and how it proved you were an airborne infantryman. Negitive. There are all kinds of MOSs in the 82nd and Infantry makes up less than half. LESS than half. Not saying you weren't in the 82nd or anything, but that statement you made was WAY off...
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Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

Hystrix wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
barna10 wrote:
Hey, moron, let me educate you. Um..the Amry hasn't used the m4 since Vietnam.


Hystrix wrote:The M-4 carbine is very much in use.

Lets not try to name call people .. when we ourselves do not know what were talking about barna ..


barna10 wrote:
Hey, everyone else reading this, sorry for the bs you guys are having to endure, but listen to me. People like Lenwen are pathetic. He's claiming to be something He's not and to have done things he hasn't. You can believe me or him, that is on you.

Oh no .. some random guy that I proved wrong on a roll playing thread .. does not believe that I have done and was what I said I was ..

What ever shall I do ..

Lmao !!

Everyone who knows me personally knows exactly what I used to do and my entire military career .. Because you choose not to believe what I say does not make me any less then what I was ..



Well, barna10 was wrong on the M-4 thing, but he was dead on on the whole MOS thing. There isn't a division, brigade, or Battatlion sized element in the army that is composed of just one MOS. You talked about being in the 82nd and how it proved you were an airborne infantryman. Negitive. There are all kinds of MOSs in the 82nd and Infantry makes up less than half. LESS than half. Not saying you weren't in the 82nd or anything, but that statement you made was WAY off...

The statement I made was that I was infantry .. Airborn infantry .. I was stationed at Ft Bragg for 7 years .. If it pleases you I shall run a copy off of my enlistment pappers to prove to everyone that I did what I said I did .. not a prob to scan an post it ..

Obviously there are more Mos's in the 82nd then just infantry can you show me where I said the 82nd was strickly infantry ?

Or perhaps it is you an several others .. implying that I said such a thing in an attempt at what ever it was you were attempting ..
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Hystrix »

Lenwen wrote:The statement I made was that I was infantry .. Airborn infantry .. I was stationed at Ft Bragg for 7 years .. If it pleases you I shall run a copy off of my enlistment pappers to prove to everyone that I did what I said I did .. not a prob to scan an post it ..

Obviously there are more Mos's in the 82nd then just infantry can you show me where I said the 82nd was strickly infantry ?

Or perhaps it is you an several others .. implying that I said such a thing in an attempt at what ever it was you were attempting ..



Short memory, eh?

You said

I've already explained this to you. If I was in the 82nd Airborn Infantry division .. I was airborn infantry .. (Try not to put 2+2 together to often do ya ..)


Notice the bold? That's a quote from you. You stated it when asked what you did in the military.

If you asked me that and I told you I was in 1/71 Cav therefore I am a 19D Calalry Scout, that would be false.

What did you expect people to thinbk of that stament?
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Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

Hystrix wrote:
Lenwen wrote:The statement I made was that I was infantry .. Airborn infantry .. I was stationed at Ft Bragg for 7 years .. If it pleases you I shall run a copy off of my enlistment pappers to prove to everyone that I did what I said I did .. not a prob to scan an post it ..

Obviously there are more Mos's in the 82nd then just infantry can you show me where I said the 82nd was strickly infantry ?

Or perhaps it is you an several others .. implying that I said such a thing in an attempt at what ever it was you were attempting ..



Short memory, eh?

You said

I've already explained this to you. If I was in the 82nd Airborn Infantry division .. I was airborn infantry .. (Try not to put 2+2 together to often do ya ..)


Notice the bold? That's a quote from you. You stated it when asked what you did in the military.

If you asked me that and I told you I was in 1/71 Cav therefore I am a 19D Calalry Scout, that would be false.

What did you expect people to thinbk of that stament?

How foolish of me .. to think people would be able to comprehend that I was in fact Airborn Infantry .. after straight up saying I was airborn Infantry ..

Btw .. the above statement in now way says or dictates that there is strickly .. infantry in the 82nd ...

That is a false implication by you an everyone else who says it does say that .. no offense ..
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Hystrix »

Lenwen wrote:
Hystrix wrote:
Lenwen wrote:The statement I made was that I was infantry .. Airborn infantry .. I was stationed at Ft Bragg for 7 years .. If it pleases you I shall run a copy off of my enlistment pappers to prove to everyone that I did what I said I did .. not a prob to scan an post it ..

Obviously there are more Mos's in the 82nd then just infantry can you show me where I said the 82nd was strickly infantry ?

Or perhaps it is you an several others .. implying that I said such a thing in an attempt at what ever it was you were attempting ..



Short memory, eh?

You said

I've already explained this to you. If I was in the 82nd Airborn Infantry division .. I was airborn infantry .. (Try not to put 2+2 together to often do ya ..)


Notice the bold? That's a quote from you. You stated it when asked what you did in the military.

If you asked me that and I told you I was in 1/71 Cav therefore I am a 19D Calalry Scout, that would be false.

What did you expect people to thinbk of that stament?

How foolish of me .. to think people would be able to comprehend that I was in fact Airborn Infantry .. after straight up saying I was airborn Infantry ..

Btw .. the above statement in now way says or dictates that there is strickly .. infantry in the 82nd ...

That is a false implication upon you an everyone else who says it does say that .. no offense ..


It's not hard to comprehend. Boy, you sure like to dance around the issue don't you? You said (again, I'll post it):

I've already explained this to you. If I was in the 82nd Airborn Infantry division .. I was airborn infantry .. (Try not to put 2+2 together to often do ya ..)


What else are you trying to say? You certainly said it like you were saying only airborne infantry are in the 82nd. And what dose "Try not to put 2+2 together to often do ya" mean?

Really man, it's cool to screw up on a post or an argument, but at least own up to it... sheesh..
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Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

Hystrix wrote:It's not hard to comprehend. Boy, you sure like to dance around the issue don't you? You said (again, I'll post it):

I've already explained this to you. If I was in the 82nd Airborn Infantry division .. I was airborn infantry .. (Try not to put 2+2 together to often do ya ..)

And yet again .. where in the statement does it state .. its an infantry only division ?

Hystrix .. I am still waiting ..

Or is it that you like another .. simply want to imply its something I said .. when clearly you have yet to post anything even remotly close to what your claiming that I said ?

Hystrix wrote:What else are you trying to say?

I think its obvious by now .. sept for the hard headed ..

Hystrix wrote:Really man, it's cool to screw up on a post or an argument, but at least own up to it... sheesh..

I worded that I was airborn infantry wrong .. Again my apologies ..

Still waiting for you to show me where I said the 82nd only has infantry in it ..

Unless your telling me you messed up by "reading" something into a post of mine .. that was not there .. :lol:
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Hystrix »

I didn't read anything wrong. Anyone else who reads this will see the same thing I did.

Barana10 asked what your MOS was. all you had to say was 11B (Infantryman), and then later a 25 series (Combat Engieneer). You Got all indignant and told him you where obviouly infantry because you were in the 82nd. Again, I'm not saying you weren't, but in the Army that I know, if someone is vauge like that, it's because they had a desk job, and didn't want to admit it.

Thing is, all you had to do was say that you were an 11 bang-bang. Everyone would have been cool with that.

But 'im finding out, that that's just classic Lenwen... :nh
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Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

Hystrix wrote:I didn't read anything wrong. Anyone else who reads this will see the same thing I did.

Barana10 asked what your MOS was. all you had to say was 11B (Infantryman), and then later a 25 series (Combat Engieneer). You Got all indignant and told him you where obviouly infantry because you were in the 82nd. Again, I'm not saying you weren't, but in the Army that I know, if someone is vauge like that, it's because they had a desk job, and didn't want to admit it.

Thing is, all you had to do was say that you were an 11 bang-bang. Everyone would have been cool with that.

But 'im finding out, that that's just classic Lenwen... :nh

I've already owned up to the fact that I worded it wrong .. my apologies (second time on that)

So when are you going to stop reading into peoples posts .. things that were not said ?

There in lies the real debat ..
Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

dead fenris wrote:can we please not give the admins another reason to lock a thread?

barna10 was proven wrong .. by myself in this thread .. hence he is trying to take shots at me .. rather then the actual debate

Trying to lock the thread .. so there upon he does not have to debate it .. because he can not debate it calmly rationally ..
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Hystrix »

Lenwen wrote:
dead fenris wrote:can we please not give the admins another reason to lock a thread?

barna10 was proven wrong .. by myself in this thread .. hence he is trying to take shots at me .. rather then the actual debate

Trying to lock the thread .. so there upon he does not have to debate it .. because he can not debate it calmly rationally ..



Ok. I'll bite. How did you prove him wrong. I read the last 2 pages, and I'm missing were you proved him wrong? Was this on another topic?
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Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

Hystrix wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
dead fenris wrote:can we please not give the admins another reason to lock a thread?

barna10 was proven wrong .. by myself in this thread .. hence he is trying to take shots at me .. rather then the actual debate

Trying to lock the thread .. so there upon he does not have to debate it .. because he can not debate it calmly rationally ..



Ok. I'll bite. How did you prove him wrong. I read the last 2 pages, and I'm missing were you proved him wrong? Was this on another topic?

Curious that I am still waiting .. for you to own up to reading more into peoples posts .. then was said ..

:roll:
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Hystrix »

Lenwen wrote:
Hystrix wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
dead fenris wrote:can we please not give the admins another reason to lock a thread?

barna10 was proven wrong .. by myself in this thread .. hence he is trying to take shots at me .. rather then the actual debate

Trying to lock the thread .. so there upon he does not have to debate it .. because he can not debate it calmly rationally ..



Ok. I'll bite. How did you prove him wrong. I read the last 2 pages, and I'm missing were you proved him wrong? Was this on another topic?

Curious that I am still waiting .. for you to own up to reading more into peoples posts .. then was said ..

:roll:



I didn't read more into it and you know that. But that's cool. Your just being classic Lenwen.

I also notice you can't answer my question. Curious.
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Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

Hystrix wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Hystrix wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
dead fenris wrote:can we please not give the admins another reason to lock a thread?

barna10 was proven wrong .. by myself in this thread .. hence he is trying to take shots at me .. rather then the actual debate

Trying to lock the thread .. so there upon he does not have to debate it .. because he can not debate it calmly rationally ..



Ok. I'll bite. How did you prove him wrong. I read the last 2 pages, and I'm missing were you proved him wrong? Was this on another topic?

Curious that I am still waiting .. for you to own up to reading more into peoples posts .. then was said ..

:roll:



I didn't read more into it and you know that. But that's cool. Your just being classic Lenwen.

I also notice you can't answer my question. Curious.

Yes ..

As evidenced by this ..
Hystrix wrote:There isn't a division, brigade, or Battatlion sized element in the army that is composed of just one MOS.

So now I asked you multiple times .. where did I ever say anything like what you just tried to imply I said ?

I'll wait for your responce about owning up to reading into other peoples posts .. more then what was said ..

But I shall not hold my breath ..
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Hystrix »

Lenwen wrote:Yes ..

As evidenced by this ..
Hystrix wrote:There isn't a division, brigade, or Battatlion sized element in the army that is composed of just one MOS.

So now I asked you multiple times .. where did I ever say anything like what you just tried to imply I said ?

I'll wait for your responce about owning up to reading into other peoples posts .. more then what was said ..

But I shall not hold my breath ..



You're rediculous.

You said it here: (for the third time)

I've already explained this to you. If I was in the 82nd Airborn Infantry division .. I was airborn infantry .. (Try not to put 2+2 together to often do ya ..)


Dosn't get anymore difinitive, dude. Being part of the 82nd dosn't make you an airborne infantryman any more than being in a McDonalds makes you a hamburger.
Hystrix, the Post Killer, Destroyer of Threads
Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

Hystrix wrote:
You're rediculous.

You said it here: (for the third time)

I've already explained this to you. If I was in the 82nd Airborn Infantry division .. I was airborn infantry .. (Try not to put 2+2 together to often do ya ..)


Dosn't get anymore difinitive, dude. Being part of the 82nd dosn't make you an airborne infantryman any more than being in a McDonalds makes you a hamburger.

And tell me how does that mean the 82nd is made up of strickly .. infantry ?

You reading more into peoples posts then what is there .. is thee only way that connection is made .. I spoke about myself .. not the rest of the 82nd infantry ..

And you're calling other people ridicules?

Whoa ..
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Mack »

Please return to a Rifts discussion.
Some gave all.
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Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

Intolerance wrote:mbarna10's creativity has thwarted you, because as he said... he can produce 60, mundane characters for the price it takes to produce 1 of your super shiva-esque limbed monstrosity.

See here is the crux of the debate .. as a Highlord .. they can create those types of creatures .. "Free of charge" ..

The cost only comes into play when you "Sell" Bio-Borgs .. or are creating a Bio-Borg for a client ..

If your creating Bio-Borgs for the state .. there is no cost ..

Ergo .. for the price it takes for you to do the 60 mundane characters .. Atlantis or who ever "Highlords" can create 60 Bio-Borgs ..

:P
Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

Intolerance wrote:
Lenwen wrote:
Intolerance wrote:mbarna10's creativity has thwarted you, because as he said... he can produce 60, mundane characters for the price it takes to produce 1 of your super shiva-esque limbed monstrosity.

See here is the crux of the debate .. as a Highlord .. they can create those types of creatures .. "Free of charge" ..

The cost only comes into play when you "Sell" Bio-Borgs .. or are creating a Bio-Borg for a client ..

If your creating Bio-Borgs for the state .. there is no cost ..

Ergo .. for the price it takes for you to do the 60 mundane characters .. Atlantis or who ever "Highlords" can create 60 Bio-Borgs ..

:P

You obviously have no understanding of how a corporation works.

Highlords cannot "create" the symbiotes out of thin air... things, cost, money.

Slavery costs nuthing .. Going out and capturing what you need ..

Breeding costs nuthing ..

Creating Hundreds of thousands of Skelebots costs nuthing ..

So how is breading and capturing slaves soo expensive ?

LMAO !!!

I do not think you have any idea of how economic's work in Rifts earth ..
Lenwen

Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Lenwen »

dead fenris wrote:
slavery costs in housing, feeding, keeping in health and working order for said slaves.

Sustain - Negates the need for food, water or even AIR !! and costs nothing monetarily .. and is from a self replenishing resource ..

Cleanse - Keeps slaves clean as well as their clothing again, no cost Sept from a self replenishing resource.

Heal wounds + Greater Healing + Cure Illness = Health is guaranteed

dead fenris wrote:breeding costs in the time spent on the stock not doing slave labor and breeding and rebreeding to get the traits that you want.

Breeding and cloning has been 98% perfected by the Kittani .. no worries there ..

dead fenris wrote:on top of that, how much does it cost to build a slaver and crew it with blind warrior women?

Nuthing. The Total cost would be "maby" the cost of materials to create the barge, anything done threw Bio-Wizardry and or magic has no cost, as its from a completely renewable resource that is self replenishing ..

dead fenris wrote:what does it eat?

Sustain - Magic spell .. negates the need for either food or water .. and is based off of a completely renewable resource

Or it can hunt for what it wants .. either or .. No cost ..

dead fenris wrote:does it bring food with it or just hunt off the land?

Already answered ..

dead fenris wrote:can a slaver repair its own damage? with what materials?

Armor of Ithan instantly engages .. never can get hit by surprise before the spell gets off .. No damage taken.
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Re: Who commands more power ?

Unread post by Hystrix »

dead fenris wrote:
slavery costs in housing, feeding, keeping in health and working order for said slaves.

breeding costs in the time spent on the stock not doing slave labor and breeding and rebreeding to get the traits that you want.

creating skelebots costs in labor, materials, storage, wages for workers to build them or housing and feeding for slaves or raw cash for subcontracting.

history has proven that substance wages is by far more cost effective than slavery. paying someone a very small amount, and forcing them to provide their own food and shelter costs far less than having to feed and shelter them.

on top of that, how much does it cost to build a slaver and crew it with blind warrior women? what does it eat? does it bring food with it or just hunt off the land? can a slaver repair its own damage? with what materials? it seems very unlikely that what a slaver can find in a sdc village with little to no high-end tech can be used to repair major damage on tech from atlantis. and if the warrior women die? you need to take time from slaving to go back to atlantis, pick up a new set of BWW and travel all the way back to where you were. not at all cost effective. or perhaps they just send you a six pack of BWW via magic. while this is much more efficient its still time wasted on not slaving. now that you have the slaves, how do you transport them back to splyyn? magic? i dont remember a slaver having teleport magic, so that means land and water travel back to atlantis. and how does it transport them when they actually have to travel the distance? a slaver is not that big so how many can it fit? 30 or 40 tops? not at all cost effective.



Good call! I think logistics arte something that is ignored to much in Rifts. I mean no one dose anything for free. When youm consider that an "average" human slave only sells for 2-12 thousand creds. Sploogie better have some low overhead. And, unfortunatly magic wouldn't work, for the most part. You average boi-tech creation costs hundreds of thousands to millions of creds, and with out those magic creations, Slavers, Warrior Women, Kittani, and Kydians alike don't have magic. Staves of Pacification, or Eylor don't have anything to "feed" slaves. They only can capture. So, yeah they'd have to have some sort of food for the slaves. Even if the cost to feed slaves was 1 credit a day, it would cost at least 20 mil a day to feed all the human slaves in Atlantis. Dang. Transport is going to cost more. Moving 800 salves isn't free, that's for sure.

Then there is the question: Do Kittani, Kydians, and Slavers get paid? I would think there is some kind of compensation for these guys. I mean, they are minions, not slaves. That's gonna raise your overhead for sure.

The Splugorth Slaver Raider ship can hold 800 slaves. There is still the issue of ther Slavers carriing slaves (or leading slaves like a chain gang) back to the boat. I'm not sure there is much room for the slaves on the barge. It never give a figure for that.

It's a lot to think about. I'll skim over WB 2 & 21, and try to come up with some figures on it later today...
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