Saving Throws

This is a place for G.M.s and GM wannabes to share ideas and their own methods of play. It is not a locked forum so be aware your players may be watching!

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
Severus Snape
Hero
Posts: 1214
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:46 pm
Comment: You ought to be careful. People will think you're....up....to something.
Location: Hogwarts School of Witchcraft & Wizardry
Contact:

Saving Throws

Unread post by Severus Snape »

Got a question for you all, and I'm hoping to not only generate an answer but to also have a good discussion on the topic. The topic at hand is Saving Throws. The question is: How do you determine the target number for a particular Save?

I know that the books all list some target numbers for different things, but I have found that, from time to time, the target numbers listed aren't consistent. I'm not talking about "The target is x under these circumstances, but x under this other one". I mean that at times I've seen the general target be 15, where in other places it's less than that. And it's something that bothers both me and the guys I game with. So we came up with something that we think works. At least for us.

If a specific ability/spell/power/weapon/etc. doesn't explicitly state what the target saving throw is, we use the old 2nd edition AD&D saving throw chart. I know that there are far more things to save against in the megaverse than AD&D accounted for, but the chart works. We can (somewhat logically) group OCCs by the old AD&D classes, and we can (somewhat) group the saving throw types by the old AD&D saving throw types. And the bonus to this is that the saving throws do get better as you get up in levels (which counteracts the penalties for having to deal with harsher and harsher things to save against).

What do you guys think about this? What do you guys do? Anybody have anything they've done?
User avatar
Shorty Lickens
Hero
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:24 pm
Comment: Arrrrgggghhhh!
Location: Praxus

Re: Saving Throws

Unread post by Shorty Lickens »

Ummm, in Rifts I dont. I just use whatever number the OCC says. Like AD&D 1st and 2nd edition.

I do not use the D&D 3rd edition saving throw system in my Palladium games. BUT, I sometimes think maybe I should.
http://incompetech.com/graphpaper/
Create and print dozens of different graph papers.
User avatar
Shorty Lickens
Hero
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:24 pm
Comment: Arrrrgggghhhh!
Location: Praxus

Re: Saving Throws

Unread post by Shorty Lickens »

Well, just like the writers of D&D 3rd had to generate difficulty checks for EVERYTHING in the game, we would need to do the same for everything in Rifts (or whatever system you use). It would require buttloads of work but in the end may be worth the effort. Horror Factor would be a will save, most poisons are Fortitude saves, and so forth.

Certain classes get higher or lower bonuses to saves, just like D&D. Wizards would get a +4 bonus (at level 1) to Will saves, while many other classes would only get a +2. Men At Arms might get a +4 to fortitude saves. Juicers would not get any special bonuses to Reflex saves but their high PP would allow a stat bonus.

Of course at this point we are talking about converting other system rules directly over to Palladium and thats not allowed here. The change isnt dicey at all, (in fact it would be quite easy) we just arent allowed to do it publicly.
http://incompetech.com/graphpaper/
Create and print dozens of different graph papers.
User avatar
Severus Snape
Hero
Posts: 1214
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:46 pm
Comment: You ought to be careful. People will think you're....up....to something.
Location: Hogwarts School of Witchcraft & Wizardry
Contact:

Re: Saving Throws

Unread post by Severus Snape »

Abub wrote:Um... you understand that saves in palladium generally do not improve as you level right?

I am aware of that. Everything in the megaverse - except for saving throws - gets better as you level up. The premise is that as you gain experience/levels, you get better at doing things. The same should hold true for your body. As a child, you aren't very wise and could fail many tasks involving intelligence and/or wisdom (in this case, IQ, ME, and MA). But as you get older, you get wiser, and you should get better at these tasks. Same thing for the body.
User avatar
Shorty Lickens
Hero
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:24 pm
Comment: Arrrrgggghhhh!
Location: Praxus

Re: Saving Throws

Unread post by Shorty Lickens »

Abub wrote:Um... you understand that saves in palladium generally do not improve as you level right?

Which is why we suggested using an alternate system.
http://incompetech.com/graphpaper/
Create and print dozens of different graph papers.
User avatar
The Dark Elf
Rifter® Contributer
Posts: 3074
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:04 am
Comment: "So gentlemen, are you prepared to open your minds and travel to worlds hitherto undreamed of?"
Location: UK

Re: Saving Throws

Unread post by The Dark Elf »

I have never found myself lacking a "save against X"

I would also like to see some improvements to saves but they would be in the form of +1 at lvl 5 or similar.

You see I wouldn't decrease the saving throw required (like psionics for minor, major and master) - I would simply increase the saves to read +2, +5 etc. Simplifies the list of saves to remember.

KISSIE - Keep It Simple, Simple Is Effective.
Rifter 52 Cannibal Magic
Rifter 55 The Ancestral Mystic P.C.C.
Rifter 59 The Lopanic Games adventure "The Lion, the Ditch & the Warlock". Illustrations to this adventure can be found here.
Rifter 71 & 72 Double Issue Ninjas & Superspies adventure "On a Wing & a Prayer"
Rifter 80 Masters Unlimited
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17782
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: Saving Throws

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

saves
coma/Death-- (rolling under the Char's coma % 2 out of three times)

15-Druges/toxins-- (add in the PE vs magic bonus number to the roll)
16-Poison(non-lethal)--+ (add in the PE vs magic bonus number to the roll)
14-Poison(lethal)-- (add in the PE vs magic bonus number to the roll)

12-Magic-- (add in the PE vs magic bonus number to the roll)
16-Ritual Magic-- (add in the PE vs magic bonus number to the roll)
13-Magic Circles-- (add in the PE vs magic bonus number to the roll)
13-Magic Wards-- (add in the PE vs magic bonus number to the roll)
14-Magic Fumes- (add in the PE vs magic bonus number to the roll)
16-Faeriy Magic-- (add in the PE vs magic bonus number to the roll)

12-insanity-- (add the ME insanity bonus number to the roll, Rifts players, this is not listing in the rifts books so you will need to see the PF2 or HU2 books to find it.)

15/12/10-Psioics-- (non-psi's/ minior, major, and animals/ master Psi's target numbers to roll over)
Horror Factor-- (added to roll vs the other's HF, & Awe Factor)
mind control(any)-- (added to the save role vs any and all types of mind control, including Psi. magic, drugs, brain washing, etc...)

possession-- (added to the char's roll vs the possessing entity's possessing roll)

disease-- (added to the char's roll vs disease)
Pain-- (added to the char's roll vs pain in addition to the ¿PE? attribute magic bonus number)

perception-- (added to the char's roll vs the perception difficulty)

MA--[char's MA%] (the target number the other chars have to roll under to avoid being affected by the char's charisma)
PB--[char's PB%] (the target number the other chars have to roll under to avoid being affected by the char's Beauty/Good Looks)

Note: the save vs MA % and PB % are disputed, but the only example of there usage are found in the 'Warrior's Spirit Kata' in Ninja and SuperSpies.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
jedi078
Champion
Posts: 2360
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 8:21 pm
Comment: The next group of player characters to surrender in one of my games are going to play Russian roulette.
Location: Salem, Oregon

Re: Saving Throws

Unread post by jedi078 »

Going up in level is not going to help you survive a nerve agent.... same applies to tear gas and pepper spray.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem".
Ronald Reagan, President of the United States; 1985
User avatar
Shorty Lickens
Hero
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:24 pm
Comment: Arrrrgggghhhh!
Location: Praxus

Re: Saving Throws

Unread post by Shorty Lickens »

jedi078 wrote:Going up in level is not going to help you survive a nerve agent.... same applies to tear gas and pepper spray.


Then how do you explain Arnold Schwarzenegger?
http://incompetech.com/graphpaper/
Create and print dozens of different graph papers.
User avatar
KillWatch
Champion
Posts: 2003
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2001 2:01 am
Location: WI

Re: Saving Throws

Unread post by KillWatch »

Level actually does help with tear gas and pepper spray
the more exposure you have to it the less it affects you
In boot camp our base commander wanted to show off in front of the new recruits and during the exercise for the gas masks he stood in the shack without a mask staring the recruits down

Regarding HF
Something that is suppose to be immeasurably old and evil and sadistic is still within a few points of a zombie?
The entire experiment may ultimately not work. But as Tiger Woods tears into the springbok, his mouth crimson with blood, he looks to have all the makings of a natural-born killer.
User avatar
jedi078
Champion
Posts: 2360
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 8:21 pm
Comment: The next group of player characters to surrender in one of my games are going to play Russian roulette.
Location: Salem, Oregon

Re: Saving Throws

Unread post by jedi078 »

Shorty Lickens wrote:
jedi078 wrote:Going up in level is not going to help you survive a nerve agent.... same applies to tear gas and pepper spray.


Then how do you explain Arnold Schwarzenegger?

I doubt he has been exposed to nerve gas.

KillWatch wrote:Level actually does help with tear gas and pepper spray
the more exposure you have to it the less it affects you
In boot camp our base commander wanted to show off in front of the new recruits and during the exercise for the gas masks he stood in the shack without a mask staring the recruits down

Yes I've gone into the gas chamber before without a gas mask too. Thing is that was a controlled situation. You know it is coming so you can prepare for it and if you focus all of your attention on fighting through the tear gas then yes you can fight it off.

But I bet the situation would be different if your base CO was in a combat situation where he was fighting for his life and having to breath heavily, give out orders and think about other things then fighting off the effects of tear gas.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem".
Ronald Reagan, President of the United States; 1985
User avatar
Cinos
Hero
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Madsion, Wisconsin
Contact:

Re: Saving Throws

Unread post by Cinos »

Saves in Palladium generally work well, when it comes to posions / magic and the like. Only real weirdness comes with HF, which just don't measure up in many cases as pointed out before, some of the creatures out there should have over 20 for their HF (meaning not only do you need a great roll, you need a solid bonus).
Getting a mage to tell you where the hydra is...10,000 gold
Hiring a summoner... 40,000 gold
Hiring one hundred 10th level mercenaries... 98,567 gold
Giving a hydra skull to your necromancer... priceless

Board? Read bad fan fiction!
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=120575&p=2349744#p2349744
User avatar
demos606
Hero
Posts: 1248
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:49 pm
Location: Hell

Re: Saving Throws

Unread post by demos606 »

jedi078 wrote:
Shorty Lickens wrote:
jedi078 wrote:Going up in level is not going to help you survive a nerve agent.... same applies to tear gas and pepper spray.


Then how do you explain Arnold Schwarzenegger?

I doubt he has been exposed to nerve gas.

KillWatch wrote:Level actually does help with tear gas and pepper spray
the more exposure you have to it the less it affects you
In boot camp our base commander wanted to show off in front of the new recruits and during the exercise for the gas masks he stood in the shack without a mask staring the recruits down

Yes I've gone into the gas chamber before without a gas mask too. Thing is that was a controlled situation. You know it is coming so you can prepare for it and if you focus all of your attention on fighting through the tear gas then yes you can fight it off.

But I bet the situation would be different if your base CO was in a combat situation where he was fighting for his life and having to breath heavily, give out orders and think about other things then fighting off the effects of tear gas.

CS gas, the stuff used in military training, is one of those lovely things that repeated exposure builds up an immunity to. Gas chamber trainers are functionally immune to the stuff after a few training cycles and drill instructors do eventually develop that immunity as well. I'm often bemused that the military doesn't put everyone thru the chamber enough times to build up that immunity.
What a cruel thing is war: to separate and destroy families and friends, and mar the purest joys and happiness God has granted us in this world; to fill our hearts with hatred instead of love for our neighbors, and to devastate the fair face of this beautiful world. - R E Lee
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. - G Orwell
Locked

Return to “G.M.s Forum”