How would you evict the Splugorth from Atlantis?

[Dr Megaverse]

What logistical needs would you have? What kind of resistance would you encounter? What types of technology/magic will be essential? What plan of attack best address reinforcements? Those kinds of things. I've been re-reading CS Navy and Atlantis and it got me to thinking; what would be needed to actually remove the Splugorth presence from Atlantis?

As a tag along question, looking at the two page illustration of Splynn in WB2 it appears there are aircraft pictured. That got me to wondering, do the Splugorth currently deploy any contra-gravity aircraft on Earth?

[Pepsi Jedi]

About the only way to pull it off would be to Rift Atlantis BACK off earth again some how. Otherwise it turns into an inter-dimensional slugfest.

That or have the big ol Minion war end up using Atlantis as the final battle ground and have a MAD situation out there.

[Daeglan]

What logistical needs would you have? What kind of resistance would you encounter? What types of technology/magic will be essential? What plan of attack best address reinforcements? Those kinds of things. I've been re-reading CS Navy and Atlantis and it got me to thinking; what would be needed to actually remove the Splugorth presence from Atlantis?

As a tag along question, looking at the two page illustration of Splynn in WB2 it appears there are aircraft pictured. That got me to wondering, do the Splugorth currently deploy any contra-gravity aircraft on Earth?

you would need to some how stop Splynn from calling in Reinforcements from the dozen other worlds he controls, the massive amounts of magic he wields, all the supernautral and magic creatures on Atlantis that back him and defeat the current army that he has posted on rifts earth.
If you think the Kittiani have made it he has it on Atlantis.

Well the Atlanteans are currently building pyramids and studying the ley lines in prep for dealing with them.

[DBX]

eviction order


failing that make atlantis a useless place to do business in, splugorth will then relocate to a better location

[Mallak's Place]

You would have to make the Splugorth want to leave. Nuke the island till it glows, if the slaves can't survive there the Atlantis economy would crumble. Splynn would have to find a new place to set up shop.

[Vrykolas2k]

I'd have my ex-wife's lawyers (Lobstien, Lowenstien, and Isaacs) show up with an eviction notice.
He couldn't win. Or, they'd end up in a slave pen.
I'd be fine with either.

(Glad my current wife and I can coexist.)

[Dr Megaverse]

I'd have my ex-wife's lawyers (Lobstien, Lowenstien, and Isaacs) show up with an eviction notice.
He couldn't win. Or, they'd end up in a slave pen.
I'd be fine with either.

(Glad my current wife and I can coexist.)

Or you could just send your ex-wife . I kid i kid

[Preacher]

I believe the only viable way to get rid of Splynnie from Atlantis as it is set up in the books right now would be to somehow make a bigger Splugorth go after him on one of his other worlds where he would be forced to pull resources from Atlantis to defend it. Say the players somehow over years of game time set it up to make it look like Splyncryth is moving in on their territory. Say some huge mega old splugorth who has not been statted out yet.

BTW, isn't it stated somewhere in a book that Splyncryth has four worlds under his command and not dozens? Honest question or am I misremembering?



Edit: Found it Pg 18 Atlantis. Left Hand Column third paragraph under The Splugorths Atlantis. It's three and not four.

One of these alien intelligences, known as Lord Splynncryth, rules
Atlantis and three other worlds . Splynncryth realizes that it would be
virtually impossible to conquer and hold the Earth as a part of his
territory.

[cornholioprime]

Draw the Mechanoids to Rifts Earth en masse and have them nuke slice-and-dice the planet from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure.

[Vrykolas2k]

I'd have my ex-wife's lawyers (Lobstien, Lowenstien, and Isaacs) show up with an eviction notice.
He couldn't win. Or, they'd end up in a slave pen.
I'd be fine with either.

(Glad my current wife and I can coexist.)

Or you could just send your ex-wife . I kid i kid

She'd sell for too much on the Market.

Hmmm...

[Daeglan]

I'd have my ex-wife's lawyers (Lobstien, Lowenstien, and Isaacs) show up with an eviction notice.
He couldn't win. Or, they'd end up in a slave pen.
I'd be fine with either.

(Glad my current wife and I can coexist.)

Or you could just send your ex-wife . I kid i kid

She'd sell for too much on the Market.

Hmmm...

Wouldn't she be cheap on the market because she is too much work to deal with? I kid i kid

[Lenwen]

There is no way on Rifts earth canonically speaking .. to force the Splugorthian's off of Atlantis.

It would take another power block from another world to do this to them.

And that is if you follow the books ..

If you do not .. then it again will take another power block not from Rifts earth .. combined with taking away multiple aspects of the Splugorthian society/military .

[Vrykolas2k]

There is no way on Rifts earth canonically speaking .. to force the Splugorthian's off of Atlantis.

It would take another power block from another world to do this to them.

And that is if you follow the books ..

If you do not .. then it again will take another power block not from Rifts earth .. combined with taking away multiple aspects of the Splugorthian society/military .

Or just a battalion of the CS.
Since they can produce thousands of troops faster than Kydians can breed, ignore the xiticix and survive for weeks without supplies in one of the most hostile areas on Rifts Earth and then fight a battle afterwards, I'd say ya, the CS can easily take out the Magic Zone in the morning, destroy the Vampire Kingdoms after a light lunch, swing back around to mop up the xiticix, and then handily scour Atlantis until not even a microbe remains by sundown.

[Shawn Merrow]

Trick the Splugorth into refinancing with Freddie Mac.

[Mallak's Place]

Make a bunch of TW Weapons that will teleport whatever you shoot with it to Atlantis, then go vampire hunting. You get to help clean up Mexico and Splynn will have to continualy spend time and money hunting down a continuing wave of vampires.

[Corinth]

The objective is to evict Splynn from Atlantis, taking his organization with him. Raw might will not prevail, and guerrilla action is limited in potency; anyone that is serious about this objective will recognize that Splynn is, first and foremost, a merchant seeking profit. This is the root supporting Splynn's policies with the Gargoyle Empire in Europe and the Phoenix Empire occupying Egypt (and thus bridging North Africa with Southwest Asia), amongst other policies not enumerated (but can be extrapolated from those examples) in print to date. It is also reasonable to assume that there are extra-dimensional trade partners, due to Atlantis being a hub of dimensional travel. Together, we can conclude that Splynn operates a large and complex mercantile empire.

It is a known fact that such empires rely upon the establishment and maintenance of diplomatic and economic relationships between partners, often to the benefit of the imperial power and the detriment of the majority of the subordinate partner's population (as only the co-opted leader class benefits). To achieve the aforementioned objective, you must sever these relationships. This is going to be difficult, and not just because you would be yet another outsider promising the locals all sorts of benefits in return for working with foreigners (i.e. you). For players, this is where your character finds adventure; characters possessing knowledge and diplomatic skills should engage in efforts to convince the populace to turn against Splynn's empire, while martial characters need to protect them from retaliation or striking specific targets. This is classic insurgency operations, so I suggest studying current and historical examples for inspiration. Once you're doing real damage to his trade, then you can start bringing the pain where it counts--his wealth and prestige, which is far less than his raw power--because you don't need to kill the Alien Intelligence to win. All you need to do is make it far, far more trouble than its worth for him to spend wealth to put down all of the challenges to his hegemony. He will leave, of his own volition, once you breach that point.

[Ed]

Vampire intelligence creates a master vampire on the Moon. Master vamp steals a starship, hypnotizing the crew, runs the velocity up to 10% lightspeed, then crashes it into the planet. Cracks the crust like a rotten eggshell. Game over. It even fulfills the prophecy.

[cornholioprime]

The objective is to evict Splynn from Atlantis, taking his organization with him. Raw might will not prevail, and guerrilla action is limited in potency; anyone that is serious about this objective will recognize that Splynn is, first and foremost, a merchant seeking profit. This is the root supporting Splynn's policies with the Gargoyle Empire in Europe and the Phoenix Empire occupying Egypt (and thus bridging North Africa with Southwest Asia), amongst other policies not enumerated (but can be extrapolated from those examples) in print to date. It is also reasonable to assume that there are extra-dimensional trade partners, due to Atlantis being a hub of dimensional travel. Together, we can conclude that Splynn operates a large and complex mercantile empire.

It is a known fact that such empires rely upon the establishment and maintenance of diplomatic and economic relationships between partners, often to the benefit of the imperial power and the detriment of the majority of the subordinate partner's population (as only the co-opted leader class benefits). To achieve the aforementioned objective, you must sever these relationships. This is going to be difficult, and not just because you would be yet another outsider promising the locals all sorts of benefits in return for working with foreigners (i.e. you). For players, this is where your character finds adventure; characters possessing knowledge and diplomatic skills should engage in efforts to convince the populace to turn against Splynn's empire, while martial characters need to protect them from retaliation or striking specific targets. This is classic insurgency operations, so I suggest studying current and historical examples for inspiration. Once you're doing real damage to his trade, then you can start bringing the pain where it counts--his wealth and prestige, which is far less than his raw power--because you don't need to kill the Alien Intelligence to win. All you need to do is make it far, far more trouble than its worth for him to spend wealth to put down all of the challenges to his hegemony. He will leave, of his own volition, once you breach that point.

There is an active Lincoln-insurgence in Atlantis, already. Along with so many, many, many other opportunities to forcefully take the Splugorth out for good.

Given the alignment and disposition of the Splugorths, do you really think a living one is better than a dead one?

In my game, after we won against the Splugorth, we gave Atlantis back to the Atlanteans. In turn, they created a true paradise out of a place that was so demonic and evil. Can you imagine what it's like to walk along the beaches of breath-taking coastlines, with a bunch of beautiful, free women, and seeing families having fun together along the shores, while the surfing is wonderful, and no lines at the concession stands and restrooms?

*takes a deep breath of fresh air*

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Yes, life's rewards after so much hard work to save Rifts Earth from the villainy of evil.

In WHAT logical Universe do you drive out Splynncryth -the runt of the Splugorth species whose Atlantis forces alone are larger in number that every man, woman, and child on the planet......

And then, somehow, DON'T have to contend with his even stronger friends and family who were probably plotting a long-term strategy to take it from Splynncryth anyway??


Did you use the little-known arcane S.O.T. Ritual to make Splynncryth's 30 I.Q. drop to 0 and then make the other Splugorth (always 1D6 visiting ones on the island for vacation at all times) just forget that they were ever there??

No offense, man, but I think that taking over all of the CS with only the 28,616 troops in stasis at NEMA-HQ-ECC sounds about a thousand times more realistic.

Re: To Evict Splynn, You Must Conduct a Massive Insurgency.

The only problem with an Insurgency:

It only works when the enemy that you are launching an insurgency against isn't ruthless enough to simply kill everybody involved until such time as either the populace doesn't try to keep the insurgency going...or they are all dead/imprisoned/enslaved.

Splynn City has shops where sentient creatures are kept fresh on the hook (literally!) until they are bought, weighed on a scale like so much ground round, and chopped up fresh on-the-spot. And those people are the LUCKY ones -just ask the Faeries!

Do you REALLY think that Splynnie would have such a hard time tracking which group from which continent did which attack (you just might have forgotten that his Squads routinely track down people who flee to other Dimensions).....and raze 20-50% of the population as a 'warning shot?'

[The Beast]

In WHAT logical Universe do you drive out Splynncryth -the runt of the Splugorth species whose Atlantis forces alone are larger in number that every man, woman, and child on the planet......

And then, somehow, DON'T have to contend with his even stronger friends and family who were probably plotting a long-term strategy to take it from Splynncryth anyway??

Did you use the little-known arcane S.O.T. Ritual to make Splynncryth's 30 I.Q. drop to 0 and then make the other Splugorth (always 1D6 visiting ones on the island for vacation at all times) just forget that they were ever there??

No offense, man, but I think that taking over all of the CS with only the 28,616 troops in stasis at NEMA-HQ-ECC sounds about a thousand times more realistic.

The only problem with an Insurgency:

It only works when the enemy that you are launching an insurgency against isn't ruthless enough to simply kill everybody involved until such time as either the populace doesn't try to keep the insurgency going...or they are all dead/imprisoned/enslaved.

Splynn City has shops where sentient creatures are kept fresh on the hook (literally!) until they are bought, weighed on a scale like so much ground round, and chopped up fresh on-the-spot. And those people are the LUCKY ones -just ask the Faeries!

Do you REALLY think that Splynnie would have such a hard time tracking which group from which continent did which attack (you just might have forgotten that his Squads routinely track down people who flee to other Dimensions).....and raze 20-50% of the population as a 'warning shot?'

The logical universe where we worked hard to achieve this goal, despite your enormous, misplaced doubts about them. Instead of thinking how impossible it is at first, . . . try and think how possible and truly is to defeat (kill) them. That's where anything can be achieved, where you least expect it. If this is your attempt to suck information out of me on how myself, and my group had done it, . . . please consider this a total failure.

Rested assured, there are plenty of logical means that will cause a great many downfalls of the Splugorth on Atlantis. Please note that internal relationships of them are not really considered family, otherwise, they would've become a strong contender in the Three Galaxies a very long time ago, for which they are not even close to becoming, currently, and like ever.

As a side note, . . . Atlantis does not have a force equal to or even greater than the entire planet. Seriously. Also, . . . having an I.Q. of 30 and still unable to kill a band of freedom fighters in his very own city, is a very poor usage for a logical argument, no offense.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand. " - Abraham Lincoln

Then name them.

[cornholioprime]

In WHAT logical Universe do you drive out Splynncryth -the runt of the Splugorth species whose Atlantis forces alone are larger in number that every man, woman, and child on the planet......

And then, somehow, DON'T have to contend with his even stronger friends and family who were probably plotting a long-term strategy to take it from Splynncryth anyway??

Did you use the little-known arcane S.O.T. Ritual to make Splynncryth's 30 I.Q. drop to 0 and then make the other Splugorth (always 1D6 visiting ones on the island for vacation at all times) just forget that they were ever there??

No offense, man, but I think that taking over all of the CS with only the 28,616 troops in stasis at NEMA-HQ-ECC sounds about a thousand times more realistic.

The only problem with an Insurgency:

It only works when the enemy that you are launching an insurgency against isn't ruthless enough to simply kill everybody involved until such time as either the populace doesn't try to keep the insurgency going...or they are all dead/imprisoned/enslaved.

Splynn City has shops where sentient creatures are kept fresh on the hook (literally!) until they are bought, weighed on a scale like so much ground round, and chopped up fresh on-the-spot. And those people are the LUCKY ones -just ask the Faeries!

Do you REALLY think that Splynnie would have such a hard time tracking which group from which continent did which attack (you just might have forgotten that his Squads routinely track down people who flee to other Dimensions).....and raze 20-50% of the population as a 'warning shot?'

The logical universe where we worked hard to achieve this goal, despite your enormous, misplaced doubts about them. Instead of thinking how impossible it is at first, . . . try and think how possible and truly is to defeat (kill) them. That's where anything can be achieved, where you least expect it. If this is your attempt to suck information out of me on how myself, and my group had done it, . . . please consider this a total failure.

Oh, please.

Don't kid yourself; actually, I'm not really all that interested in hearing it.

You telling me that you figured out a simple Insurgency that would cause the Splugorth to run from the most valuable piece of property they could ever possess this side of the Cosmic Forge is about as believable as someone telling me that they thought up a story where Mickey Mouse defeated Superman without neutralizing his powers, having super-powers of his own or using Kryptonite -I don't need an explanation to realize before I even open the comic to realize that some SERIOUS dumbing-down is going on in those pages.

Rested assured, there are plenty of logical means that will cause a great many downfalls of the Splugorth on Atlantis. Please note that internal relationships of them are not really considered family, otherwise, they would've become a strong contender in the Three Galaxies a very long time ago, for which they are not even close to becoming, currently, and like ever.

The Splugorth of Atlantis "cooperate" with one another (it's actually stated that they pool their Kittani and Kydian populations as a shared resource). Which is not as implausible as one might think given that the Splugorth are sitting on the number one piece of real estate in the Megaverse, even more important in its own way than Center is.

As a side note, . . . Atlantis does not have a force equal to or even greater than the entire planet. Seriously. Also, . . . having an I.Q. of 30 and still unable to kill a band of freedom fighters in his very own city, is a very poor usage for a logical argument, no offense.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand. " - Abraham Lincoln

First, Atlantis' population of 90 million IS more than the known population of the entire rest of the planet; some of us have done the math in old Threads on the subject. (You probably won't believe just how often the same relatively small pool of topics get discussed over and over again by the long-timers here. But hey, it's fun so why not?)

Including the millions in the Yama Hells of China.
Including the millions in the Sovietski and the Warlords of China.
Including the population of the Vampire Kingdoms, vampires and slaves both.

And even if, for the sake of argument, we said that the Earth's population as of AD 2398 (P.A. 109) was more than what Splynncryth has on Atlantis now, you seem to be forgetting that the forces on the island are only a GARRISON FORCE and nowhere near what Splynncryth can bring to bear -IF he really needs to......and he probably doesn't have to.

(Rifts: Aftermath states that with just what he has on Atlantis, he could take out the Xiticix if he wanted to, with minimal effort. He only abstains from doing so right now because Earth's problems -like the Gargoyle/Triax Wars and the Xiticix -are part of a "TV Show" for he and his fellow Splugorth which they bet on. The only force that is said to give Splynncryth trouble if he ever chooses to fight them is the Vampire Kingdoms -and that's IF the Intelligences all stick together.)

Second....based on the incredible amounts of surveillance in his city, while small bands of Freedom Fighters, Temporal Raiders and the like DO occasionally plunder some of the city, it is so far below the Splugorth's notice that he is content to continue to let the High Lords do his security work for him.

Let me re-state and re-phrase that: the squads of enemy personnel who harass Atlantis are bothered with and chased down ONLY because they make business look bad (see Splynn Dimensional Market). They are no threat in any way, shape or form, and if by some stroke of luck they ever do become more than simple nuisance, Atlantis's defenses are formidable all by themselves before a single Minion has to be called in to fight.

It's like trying to say that just because the local police in your city can't stop every single crime from every single gang-banger, that you can gather together a few rival gangs and take over the whole country.

******************************************************************
There's a REASON why the only known force in the Megaverse with a chance of defeating the utterly ruthless Splugorth (as opposed to Center's purely defensive actions) is the Mechanoids.

Your super-duper Insurgency would have any self-respecting Splugorth raze a whole continent and scour it clean of sentient life, then broadcast it on TV viewers all over the planet as an example to all the rest.

Under the circumstances, even The Cosmic Powers That Be, that are tying Splynncryth's hands behind his back and severely limiting what he can do on Earth, would almost certainly approve of a little Scorched Earth every now and again to keep the upstart humans in line should they ever prove to be too uppity and try to disrupt the megaversal meal ticket that Earth currently represents -one of the very few things which virtually everybody in the Megaverse short of the Apocalypse Demons are willing to cooperate on and keep intact.

But let me guess: your Plan also includes so-called Good Guys who don't care if the rest of the intelligent life on the planet gets vaporized or enslaved, right?

[Zer0 Kay]

With a note:
Splynn-

Coming to visit Atlantis on vacation and to take care of a few posers, do not want to see you, your kin or anything that reaks of you. Xy wasn't a problem for us before you aren't anywhere near his caliber, consider this your warning. Threat to follow.

Sincerly,
Kym-nark-mar, Zandragal, Kormath, Styphon the Black

[cornholioprime]

Oh, please.

Don't kid yourself; actually, I'm not really all that interested in hearing it.

Then why bother pursuing this in the first place?

You seem to miss the point. I, for one, am not pestering you to tell me your Big Secret; I'm telling you that I think that your "Insurgency to make Splynncryth poop his pants" idea makes no sense whether you ever reveal the details or not.

If Bill Coffin had come to these Forums back in the day and said that he was going to write things so that several whole divisions of the Coalition Army could walk straight through Xiticix country and not only survive but survive mostly unscathed, he would have been given the same skeptic treatment.

Nothing personal.

You telling me that you figured out a simple Insurgency that would cause the Splugorth to run from the most valuable piece of property they could ever possess this side of the Cosmic Forge is about as believable as someone telling me that they thought up a story where Mickey Mouse defeated Superman without neutralizing his powers, having super-powers of his own or using Kryptonite -I don't need an explanation to realize before I even open the comic to realize that some SERIOUS dumbing-down is going on in those pages.

Am I correct to assume you are not lucky at rolling the dice then?

Am I correct in assuming that this is yet another horribly-flawed example of ROLL-play over ROLE-play?

Perhaps you should explain what you mean by that remark, in the event that I'm misunderstanding what you're getting at.

Even more so in taking a chance to rid Rifts Earth of a vile evil?

Who ever said one should never try?

No one here is doubting your "heroic spirit," just your assertion that a Guerilla Movement or simple Insurgency are going to displace the Splugorth.

Look here, there are people who can overcome a great many obstacles and achieve goals that are unbelievable, simply because they have the opportunities to make things better.

And yet, at SOME point, just Wanting/Wishing for Something Very Badly simply isn't enough.

In my opinion, using Superman to mirror the Splugorth, . . . is so wrong on so many levels.

You have a point there.

An Insurgency against the Splugorth isn't like Mickey Mouse taking on Superman.
It's more like Donald Duck taking on Galactus.

The Splugorth of Atlantis "cooperate" with one another (it's actually stated that they pool their Kittani and Kydian populations as a shared resource). Which is not as implausible as one might think given that the Splugorth are sitting on the number one piece of real estate in the Megaverse, even more important in its own way than Center is.

Are you sure? Because I recall, like 10 to 30 minions who are apart of the freedom fighters, like, already.

10 to 30 Minions out of HOW many Trillions?

First, Atlantis' population of 90 million IS more than the known population of the entire rest of the planet; some of us have done the math in old Threads on the subject. (You probably won't believe just how often the same relatively small pool of topics get discussed over and over again by the long-timers here. But hey, it's fun so why not?)

Including the millions in the Yama Hells of China.
Including the millions in the Sovietski and the Warlords of China.
Including the population of the Vampire Kingdoms, vampires and slaves both.

And even if, for the sake of argument, we said that the Earth's population as of AD 2398 (P.A. 109) was more than what Splynncryth has on Atlantis now, you seem to be forgetting that the forces on the island are only a GARRISON FORCE and nowhere near what Splynncryth can bring to bear -IF he really needs to......and he probably doesn't have to.

(Rifts: Aftermath states that with just what he has on Atlantis, he could take out the Xiticix if he wanted to, with minimal effort. He only abstains from doing so right now because Earth's problems -like the Gargoyle/Triax Wars and the Xiticix -are part of a "TV Show" for he and his fellow Splugorth which they bet on. The only force that is said to give Splynncryth trouble if he ever chooses to fight them is the Vampire Kingdoms -and that's IF the Intelligences all stick together.)

You should check World Book 4: Africa. It states on page 112, for the region of Lower Africa, . . .

Approximately 94 million people.

Also, . . . of those 90 million people living on Atlantis, . . . 31-36 million of them are slaves, . . . they are not soldiers of the Splugorth. Especially when the opportunity of "true" freedom and a chance to reunite with loved ones, is finally open to them. Which sort of reminds me of a scene from 300, . . .

Touche.

Not only for my misremembering of Atlantis' population, but also of the fact that in all the past discussions about Earth's population that I can remember, NOBODY has ever picked up on th 94 million in Africa.

So now we're up to 150 million or so on Earth as opposed to "only" 60 or 70 million.
But I'll go you one better -let's say that we're back in the year November 2098 and we still have billions of humans still alive.

Congratulations! We're now up to a fraction of a percentage of just the Kydians that Splynncryth can send to the planet if need be.

Second....based on the incredible amounts of surveillance in his city, while small bands of Freedom Fighters, Temporal Raiders and the like DO occasionally plunder some of the city, it is so far below the Splugorth's notice that he is content to continue to let the High Lords do his security work for him.

Let me re-state and re-phrase that: the squads of enemy personnel who harass Atlantis are bothered with and chased down ONLY because they make business look bad (see Splynn Dimensional Market). They are no threat in any way, shape or form, and if by some stroke of luck they ever do become more than simple nuisance, Atlantis's defenses are formidable all by themselves before a single Minion has to be called in to fight.

It's like trying to say that just because the local police in your city can't stop every single crime from every single gang-banger, that you can gather together a few rival gangs and take over the whole country.

In my honest opinion, when it comes to the surveillance of Atlantis, . . . they all pretty much suck, if they can't help hunt down, and destroy the Freedom Fighters, . . . in like moments right after they free a whole bunch of slaves. And law enforcement is shoddy in judgment and easily manipulated, especially when it states on page 17, . . .

Punishment is always brutal and cruel. Lenience is reserved for important and powerful citizens and visitors. The word of the merchant is usually taken above the word of others, and humans and most mortals are presumed guilty!

Still, there are many actions which are legal in Atlantis, but totally inappropriate in human societies. Slavery, assault, battery, robbery and even murder is perfectly legal so long as it is restricted to humans, D-Bees, and creatures of good alignment.

Business related crimes, such as fraud, are not heavily pursued in the Splynn Dimensional Market. Even though it is prevalent, especially among the transient merchants, Lord Splynncryth does not seem to have a problem with it. The basic rule of The Market is survival of the fittest.

NONE of what you posted there shows in any way shape or form that the Splugorth view the overall harassment of the Freedom Fighters as anything more than a nuisance.

To go back to the police analogy, just because the city has a bunch of bank robbers in it who regularly get way with knocking off banks, doesn't mean that it'll be a piece of cake to go and rob Fort Knox.

There's a REASON why the only known force in the Megaverse with a chance of defeating the utterly ruthless Splugorth (as opposed to Center's purely defensive actions) is the Mechanoids.

Your super-duper Insurgency would have any self-respecting Splugorth raze a whole continent and scour it clean of sentient life, then broadcast it on TV viewers all over the planet as an example to all the rest.[/size]

From page 18 of World Book Two, . . .

Splynncryth realizes that it would be virtually impossible to conquer and hold the Earth as a part of his territory. There are just too many powerful beings who covet the planet's rich mystic and dimensional resources and too many dimensional fronts to adequately defend.

You misread me -and frankly, I don't see how you did.

I said nothing about whatsoever about Splynncryth KEEPING territory.
I said that Splynncryth would PUNISH a whole continent full of people to make a point.

Yeah, . . . I really don't know where you got that idea, that only the Mechanoids are the only real threat?

And yet, you somehow missed what I posted in the very next paragraph of my last post.

Which is especially embarrassing for you since you actually took the time to cut-and-paste (and even re-size) that same pararagph.

Under the circumstances, even The Cosmic Powers That Be, that are tying Splynncryth's hands behind his back and severely limiting what he can do on Earth, would almost certainly approve of a little Scorched Earth every now and again to keep the upstart humans in line should they ever prove to be too uppity and try to disrupt the megaversal meal ticket that Earth currently represents -one of the very few things which virtually everybody in the Megaverse short of the Apocalypse Demons are willing to cooperate on and keep intact.

But let me guess: your Plan also includes so-called Good Guys who don't care if the rest of the intelligent life on the planet gets vaporized or enslaved, right?

I'm going to ignore this last part in your argument, because it doesn't really correlate with what I am saying in the least bit, in the first place.

Oh, . . . one last thing, . . . this follow-up attempt is an epic failure to get me to tell you, how me and my group accomplished this very difficult task.

First, the paragraph laid out what would very likely happen if you DID try to cause the Splugorth enough damage to leave Atlantis.

Second: you continue to misunderstand: I am rejecting your premise of Insurgency out-and-out, whether you ever reveal the details or not. If you tried to tell me that you found a way to dissolve Rune Swords with Battery Acid, or fly through the Counter-Orbital Debris Field and past the Killer Satellites, untouched, with only a Naruni Hovercraft and an oxygen pack, I would call shenanigans there as well, whether you told me the details or not.

And to be perfectly blunt with you, there are only TWO reasons that immediately spring to my mind as to why you don't want to reveal your Awesome Secret:

1. You have other people here who are both Members of these Forums, and participants in your games, who you might want to use this Plot Device on in the future, and you don't want to tip your hand.
2. (And as far as I'm concerned, this is the far more likely explanation): The INSTANT that you reveal your "Awesome Infallible Plan" to this gaming community, we'll be able to pick it apart in no time flat; in all likleihood the Splugorth in general, and Splynncryth in particular, have been dumbed down, handicapped, or restricted in their counter-attacks in any number of ways to make your scenario even remotely possible.

[runebeo]

I say bring the book of Heroes to Splynn and let both deevil & demon sides know and call o pond the heroes/angels/gods of light/Norse & Greek gods to defend the book. Have a few Psi-Ghosts keep the book on the move. Making Atlantis a major war-zone will drive away allot business.

[cornholioprime]

You seem to miss the point. I, for one, am not pestering you to tell me your Big Secret; I'm telling you that I think that your "Insurgency to make Splynncryth poop his pants" idea makes no sense whether you ever reveal the details or not.

If Bill Coffin had come to these Forums back in the day and said that he was going to write things so that several whole divisions of the Coalition Army could walk straight through Xiticix country and not only survive but survive mostly unscathed, he would have been given the same skeptic treatment.

Well, you're not doing a good job in convincing me that the Splugorth are untouchable.

"Untouchable" -which not single person here has ever claimed about the Splugorth -isn't the same thing as "the Splugorth have such a tenuous grasp on Atlantis and are so cowardly that a simple Insurgency or Guerilla Campaign will cause them to flee it forever."

Nobody here thinks that the Splugorth are utterly invincible -but neither do they think (with the exception of yourself) that anything besides world-shattering out-and-out combat which will pretty much defeat the purpose of driving out the Splugorth in the first place will be insufficient to dislodge them.

And yes, I'm telling you that you are trying very hard to get me to reveal my strategies. Despite my encouragements to help you to find out the ways on your own.

Not interested in "finding ways on my own."

Think about it: if I don't think that the Splugorth can be made to leave by Insurgency...then why would I turn back around and try to defeat them by insurgency?

Am I correct in assuming that this is yet another horribly-flawed example of ROLL-play over ROLE-play?

Perhaps you should explain what you mean by that remark, in the event that I'm misunderstanding what you're getting at.

Easy, . . . "Natural 20", "Save versus", and yes, "Dodge".

So I was correct.
ROLL-Play versus ROLE-play.

Touche.

Not only for my misremembering of Atlantis' population, but also of the fact that in all the past discussions about Earth's population that I can remember, NOBODY has ever picked up on th 94 million in Africa.

So now we're up to 150 million or so on Earth as opposed to "only" 60 or 70 million.
But I'll go you one better -let's say that we're back in the year November 2098 and we still have billions of humans still alive.

Congratulations! We're now up to a fraction of a percentage of just the Kydians that Splynncryth can send to the planet if need be.

We're only talking about Atlantis, not the rest of the Three Galaxies. Besides, the other Splugorths could care less about him anyways, . . . alive or dead.

The billions to trillions of Kittani, Kydians, Slavers, and other Minions ARE part of the equation.

If you are artificially limiting or preventing Splynncryth from bringing them over as he needs, then you are artificially unbalancing the scenario.
And if, in any "X vs. Y" scenario, if you have to handicap The Enemy in any way......then you are admitting that you can't take the Enemy down in a fair fight ("fair" here meaning that both sides are allowed to fight to their best respective capabilities).

NONE of what you posted there shows in any way shape or form that the Splugorth view the overall harassment of the Freedom Fighters as anything more than a nuisance.

To go back to the police analogy, just because the city has a bunch of bank robbers in it who regularly get way with knocking off banks, doesn't mean that it'll be a piece of cake to go and rob Fort Knox.

Hmmm, . . . how shall I put this? I know, . . .

The Minions had just lost a a bunch of shipments of slaves from all over Rifts Earth, racking up millions upon millions of credits. Merchants make lots and lots of complaints to the big guy in charge of the whole operation. The big guy tries to prevent this from happening again. Oops, he messed up, . . . big time, . . . and the merchants are super mad and goes over the big guy's head, and go straight to the man in charge, Lord Deceased, I mean Lord Splynncryth, whatever. Splynny is annoyed and sends his armies to find them. Oops, he messed up too, . . . because his armies can't find them. Double oops again, cause they freed more slaves. Hooray! Splynny asks the other Splugorth for help, and he gets denied, because they are evil too, and could careless about his troubles when they are all trying to find the Great Cosmic Forge in the Three Galaxies.

Yep.

Just as I, and many others here were no doubt thinking. You dumbed down Splynncrtyh, AND his Minions, AND their millennia of experience in tracking down even Temporal Raiders, much less people who never leave the planet.

AND......you're essentially eliminating the Splugorths' ruthlessness (even the comparatively nice Splynncryth)to defend something so valuable.
We get it.
You latched onto the word "insurgency" because you think that such tactics are hard to stop.

And Insurgencies and Guerilla Campaigns ARE often hard to stop......IF the target of the Insurgency is a bunch of morally decent guys; but against the Coalition States, or the Vampire Kingdoms, or, yes, the Splugorth, they are child's play to stop.

You misread me -and frankly, I don't see how you did.

I said nothing about whatsoever about Splynncryth KEEPING territory.
I said that Splynncryth would PUNISH a whole continent full of people to make a point.

And yet, you somehow missed what I posted in the very next paragraph of my last post.

Which is especially embarrassing for you since you actually took the time to cut-and-paste (and even re-size) that same pararagph.

You stated before in your previous post, . . .

Splugorth are sitting on the number one piece of real estate in the Megaverse, even more important in its own way than Center is.

would almost certainly approve of a little Scorched Earth every now and again

There's a REASON why the only known force in the Megaverse with a chance of defeating the utterly ruthless Splugorth (as opposed to Center's purely defensive actions) is the Mechanoids.

I hope this helps you.

You need to keep up with your own Arguments. Just to get you back onto the same page of music: The Splugorth in general and Splynncryth in particular, will PUNISH anyone anywhere else on the planet, not KEEP any territory attacked outside Atlantis, just to keep the peace amongst the other Cosmic Powers.

First, the paragraph laid out what would very likely happen if you DID try to cause the Splugorth enough damage to leave Atlantis.

Second: you continue to misunderstand: I am rejecting your premise of Insurgency out-and-out, whether you ever reveal the details or not. If you tried to tell me that you found a way to dissolve Rune Swords with Battery Acid, or fly through the Counter-Orbital Debris Field and past the Killer Satellites, untouched, with only a Naruni Hovercraft and an oxygen pack, I would call shenanigans there as well, whether you told me the details or not.

And to be perfectly blunt with you, there are only TWO reasons that immediately spring to my mind as to why you don't want to reveal your Awesome Secret:

1. You have other people here who are both Members of these Forums, and participants in your games, who you might want to use this Plot Device on in the future, and you don't want to tip your hand.
2. (And as far as I'm concerned, this is the far more likely explanation): The INSTANT that you reveal your "Awesome Infallible Plan" to this gaming community, we'll be able to pick it apart in no time flat; in all likleihood the Splugorth in general, and Splynncryth in particular, have been dumbed down, handicapped, or restricted in their counter-attacks in any number of ways to make your scenario even remotely possible.

But said that you didn't want to know. Now you want to know? This is confusing me.

Picking apart all of the logical flaws in your plan isn't the same thing as having a burning desire to see what that plan is.

Either way, I'm not going to tell you or anybody else. You have the right to disagree, however, there is no way to invalidate me, and my group's astounding accomplishment in our campaigns. Remember, this is an RPG game, where it is possible to kill NPC characters and tip the balances of power in your favor. In my case and my group's, the Splugorth got beaten (killed) and there's no way for him to come back.

People HOUSE RULE all manner of normally impossible scenarios in these Forums all the time -so you're not exactly turning the world on its ear when you say that you did X, Y, or Z.

It's when you try to say that you pulled off the feat using the rules and plotlines and parameters established in official canon that peoples' ears perk up. Especially if the claimed feat is so implausible in scope that even the fictional setting in question can't explain the deed away.

[DhAkael]

Without reading any other posts on this thread?
Easy; make him an offer he (it?) can't refuse!

[Colt47]

Well, I could evict Rifts Earth from the entire multiverse simply by casting breath without air, Impervious to energy, and then opening a Rift to a planet made completely of anti-matter. Just throw a rock through the Rift and enjoy being at the heart of a miniature big bang.

As far as evicting Atlantis in some kind of reasonable fashion? Probably not something a group of meddlesome kids and their zany dog would be able to pull off. Next to rifting the entire continent off the planet again there isn't much one can do.

[Dr Megaverse]

After some thought here is what I came up with:

1. Lots and lots and lots of sub-orbital fly overs for digital mapping. This would identify major population centers, pyramid complexs, troop garrisons, etc.

2. With said data I would then target each city and pyramid with a sub launced nuke. This has two purposes. One to create confusion among the enemy and to cause them to expend resources dealing with the damage from winds, radiation (which the NGR has found to affect supernatural creatures) and debris. The second is to clear these areas of habitation temporarily.

3. On the heels of the nukes would come two teams. The first would consist of Psi-Ghosts and Stone Masters who could enter into the pyramids in "unothordox" ways and secure routes into the pyramids insides. The second team would be a mixed group of magic users and technophiles with at least two True Atlanteans per group. This group will use whatever means necessary to enter the pyramid and A.)Teleport in reinforcements from other TA pyramids if the pyramid can be held or B.) Teleport in a LARGE nuclear device to slag it from the inside out.
NOTE: The powers of the pyramid could be used to defend it if it could be held.

4. With as many pyramids as possible under control the operation moves into a "corral, capture and kill" operation using a mixture of magic and technological weapons.

Really the ability to Rift in more troops is the largest obstacle I see. You can come up with doctrine/technology/magic/forces to address the current numerical troop advantage. Stymying the fresh flow of troops and resources seems like the best way of keeping what Splynnccrth(sp?) has on the board as it.

[cornholioprime]

"Untouchable" -which not single person here has ever claimed about the Splugorth -isn't the same thing as "the Splugorth have such a tenuous grasp on Atlantis and are so cowardly that a simple Insurgency or Guerilla Campaign will cause them to flee it forever."

Who ever said they retreated? I'm saying they died fighting trying to keep Atlantis, plain and simple. They didn't call for help because of their pride.

Then you handicapped them.

Nobody here thinks that the Splugorth are utterly invincible -but neither do they think (with the exception of yourself) that anything besides world-shattering out-and-out combat which will pretty much defeat the purpose of driving out the Splugorth in the first place will be insufficient to dislodge them.

I repeat, . . . they died fighting trying to keep Atlantis, plain and simple.

And based on the Writer's Fiat that you imposed upon them -based not at all on their natural proclivities, alignment, ruthlessness and resources -they never stood a chance.

Hey, guess what?? After I wrote the story so that Clark Kent agreed to fight me under a Red Sun, with his hands tied firmly behind his back and his legs tied tightly together.......I beat Superman.

So I was correct. ROLL-Play versus ROLE-play.

Are you saying the system of the dice is inadequate for the RPG?

The Phrase above applies to people who think that just because they can get a series of Dice Rolls, that that automatically equates to what would "actually" happen if the opponents got into a "real" fight.

Like the time that someone claimed (in these Forums) that a Juicer could beat an ancient dragon just because the raw dice rolls made the Juicer almost un-hittable by the Dragon's physical attacks. In that Thread, the guy trying to set up the scenario hobbled the Dragon eight ways to Sunday.

Pretty much the same way that you're apparently trying to hobble the Splugorth right now.

The billions to trillions of Kittani, Kydians, Slavers, and other Minions ARE part of the equation.

No they are not. Think about it, . . . how long does it take for them to open a portal to their allies to send a message for help?

They're called Magic Pyramids, wiseguy, and those with the knowledge can connect virtually anywhere in the Megaverse, instantly, whether we are talking about basic data transfer or rifting in whole armies.

And note that at this point, we're STILL talking about just Splynncryth's share of the Kittani, Kydians, Metzla-Xym, Slavers, and anyone else whom he feels the need to bring in.

Now think how long it takes for them to get a response that they considered, let alone care, to even help in the first place? If they do, by some chance, decide to help, . . . how long does it take for them to assemble an army to retake Atlantis from enemy forces they have absolutely no intel on, let alone wonder if their army will be devastated once they even open the portal to Rifts Earth? Seriously, . . . the other Splugorth are not going to send help into a losing fight, like, ever.

You still haven't convinced ANYONE here that whatever it is that you're going to send, requires more military force than the share of the millions/billions/trillions of Minions of his own that Splynncryth can muster.

If the Players that you assembled were one of those Jupiter-sized Mechanoid Motherships filled to the brim with troops, or perhaps one of the Demon Planets, THEN you've come up with something believable.

And Insurgencies and Guerilla Campaigns ARE often hard to stop......IF the target of the Insurgency is a bunch of morally decent guys; but against the Coalition States, or the Vampire Kingdoms, or, yes, the Splugorth, they are child's play to stop.

Keep on thinking, and hopefully, the answers will be profound.

You're just not aware of how easy Guerrilla Movements and Insurgencies are to stop if the anti-insurgent elements are sufficiently ruthless in their counter-attacks...........are you? (You really should look up real-world insurgencies sometime. Now just think of a group of beings much more evil than any King Hussein of Jordan or Roman Legionnnaire or Vladimir Lenin or Mao-Tse Tsung.)

The Splugorth in general and Splynncryth in particular, will PUNISH anyone anywhere else on the planet, not KEEP any territory attacked outside Atlantis, just to keep the peace amongst the other Cosmic Powers.

Well, the Cosmic Powers that be, already accidentally got Splynny killed. And Atlantis is once again, free! Sorry.

Nicely-contrived scenario....that somehow mysteriously doesn't place an even more ruthless Splugorth at the helm.

People HOUSE RULE all manner of normally impossible scenarios in these Forums all the time -so you're not exactly turning the world on its ear when you say that you did X, Y, or Z. It's when you try to say that you pulled off the feat using the rules and plotlines and parameters established in official canon that peoples' ears perk up. Especially if the claimed feat is so implausible in scope that even the fictional setting in question can't explain the deed away.

I wonder why so few, like two or three in here, are the only ones upset about a group's accomplishments in making a difference in Rifts Earth and everybody else is quiet about it? Hmmm, . . . I know, . . . everybody else rose to the challenge on their own, and already figured it out how to save Atlantis on their own without asking for any help whatsoever. That's wonderful.

Keep wondering.

Not everybody needs to be vocal in a given Thread, and much of the time most people in here aren't.

We have a lot of Spectators in these Threads.

[Dustin Fireblade]

In your last post you stated it was epic and almost like a novel, that just strikes me as odd that something that grand wouldn't be shared. Again I think your making it all up and want us to think you are telling the truth, given your hardened stance toward not talking about it I am inclined again to think this is a tall tale you are fabricating. I will repeat with out some proof to this epic feat it is nothing more then a tale told by a keyboard samurai. While nothing is impossible in a rpg, there are impossible stories in the gaming community and until you can prove otherwise yours is one of them.

Kevin Siembieda, has, to the best of my knowledge, never shared the full story of the Defilers.


I've played in a few epic games in the last 25 years myself. And outside of what Ryu has done, giving short statements about what he did, I see no good reason to describe in all the details just how exactly our characters discovered the Sathar home worlds and crushed them, how we defeated multiple demon lords and arch devils or any other epic story that my friends and I shared in.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Kevin will talk about them and if you ask a question about it will answer you, I didn't ask for details but some kind of proof or something to back up a claim, if he doesn't want to share fine but stop talking about it! It just becomes to me a mindless argument of "We did it, but we aren't talking" in which case I say "good then shut up unless you care to give some information."

Sure ask me a specific question about one my games that I can answer. But I'm pretty sure he's never related the entire story. My point in that information has been given and was, IMHO, ignored/overlooked.

Ryu's first post in this thread (and this was plenty of information for me)

For me, it took a hell of a lot of planning, studying, patience, and using Sun Tzu's "Art of War" as a basis, that earned me victory over the Splugorths on Rifts Earth. I won't go into the details, because my game setting is very much different from yours and anybody's in this matter. However, I will point out that if you have the true courage and strength to endure in what demands that lie in wait, . . . you can achieve this goal.

After that it looks to me like he was simply responding to other poster's and getting gang tackled in the process....

[cornholioprime]

I'm saying they died fighting trying to keep Atlantis, plain and simple. They didn't call for help because of their pride.

Then you handicapped them.

No. The GM rolled the dice. He lost. We won.

You handicapped Splynncryth -in at least one way -by stopping him from summoning reinforcements.

The Phrase above applies to people who think that just because they can get a series of Dice Rolls, that that automatically equates to what would "actually" happen if the opponents got into a "real" fight.

It's only an RPG for goodness sake! It is possible, and it was done in my campaign.

If you hobbled your opponent, and/or or stopped him from summoning reinforcements, and/or fed him a bunch of Stupid Pills so that he stayed in one nice little enclosed space, and/or impaired the creature in any number of ways, then you might have enjoyed a nice, House-Ruled battle that ultimately resulted in his death.....but you didn't fight the "real thing."

In my opinion, this argument should have been over on page 1.

Then be silent from this point forward.

Like the time that someone claimed (in these Forums) that a Juicer could beat an ancient dragon just because the raw dice rolls made the Juicer almost un-hittable by the Dragon's physical attacks. In that Thread, the guy trying to set up the scenario hobbled the Dragon eight ways to Sunday.

All I can say to that person is, . . . at least his trying. Who knows, perhaps he did kill an ancient dragon, and the GM didn't roll that well after all. There are plenty of ways to kill an evil ancient dragon any ways.

It was a discussion here in the Forums, and just like your Splugorth opponent, the Original Poster set up a bunch of restrictions that didn't let the dragon fight to its maximum advantage.....or use its brains.

They're called Magic Pyramids, wiseguy, and those with the knowledge can connect virtually anywhere in the Megaverse, instantly, whether we are talking about basic data transfer or rifting in whole armies. And note that at this point, we're STILL talking about just Splynncryth's share of the Kittani, Kydians, Metzla-Xym, Slavers, and anyone else whom he feels the need to bring in.

Again, the other Splugorths are not going to bother helping.

What is it about "Splynncryth has HIS OWN share of all those Minions at his disposal" do you continue to miss??

The pattern of your "Awesome Victory" is becoming clearer with each post you make.

First, you make Splynncryth into a stupid, 2-dimensional comic-book character who sits there and just waits for his death to come a-callin.'
Then, you artificially contrive a scenario whereby none of his own Minions are available to him. (You do know that the vast majority of WORLDS worth of surviving Kittani are owned almost exclusively by him and not the other Splugorth, right?)
It's amazing that Splynncryth survived for even 60,000 years in your universe, you re-wrote him to be so stupid.

Ask yourself, . . . which Splugorths do these minions really follow? Answer, . . . the Splugorth the minions swore to serve. Now, are you telling me that Lord Splynny is the total master and ruler of the entire Splugorth Empire? No. He only rules, what, four tiny worlds. Please. The other Splugorth are not going to bother lending their armies to help him, especially when it's in their nature to compete and kill each other. I'm still not going to tell you how me and my group done it.

Those four worlds' worth of Minions -and please note that while Splynncryth conquered those worlds, it doesn't mean that each and every Minion of his is situated there, only that they're conquered worlds -STILL represent billions upon billions upon billions of troops.

Of course, as dumb as you ret-conned ol' Splynnie to be, he probably never even thought to pick up the phone to ask them to stop by.

I'm still not going to tell you or anybody else, how it was done.

I reckon that you'll keep typing that same sentence another 40 or 50 times before you figure out that nobody particularly cares whether you do or not.....only that your scenario sounds like total BS without further proof.

Nicely-contrived scenario....that somehow mysteriously doesn't place an even more ruthless Splugorth at the helm.

Again, the other Splugorth could care less in comparison to find and have the Cosmic Forge in the Three Galaxies.

You don't know what you're talking about.

First, the Splugorth in the Three Galaxies -who are mostly named -are different than the ones who are constantly visiting Atlantis (1D6 who are there constantly).
Second, the Splugorth on Center explicitly bought up an entire lower level of Center and made a market there precisely because he is jealous of Splynn's success.

Sounds to me like you came up with yet another way to hobble the Sploogs, by pretending that if Splynncryth falls, one or more of them won't try to fill the power vacuum.

[Dustin Fireblade]

snipped

So basically what you are saying is that since his game was different, again as he pointed out in his very first post, he's completely wrong?

[Daeglan]

Well to start the Kittani are not happy with the Splugorth so they are a potential source to turn against him. The sunaj probably could be turned against him. Especially if someone shows them they are being used.

[cornholioprime]

snipped

So basically what you are saying is that since his game was different, again as he pointed out in his very first post, he's completely wrong?

If you hobbled your opponent, and/or or stopped him from summoning reinforcements, and/or fed him a bunch of Stupid Pills so that he stayed in one nice little enclosed space, and/or impaired the creature in any number of ways, then you might have enjoyed a nice, House-Ruled battle that ultimately resulted in his death.....but you didn't fight the "real thing."

As you of course know, Questions posited to the Forums are generally asking for an answer based in turn upon canon rules.

Am I, or anybody else here, stating that if he goes by his own House Rules that it's still impossible??

Also, notice that in the majority of his responses to others during the course of this Thread, he is countering questioners of his adventure as if he, too, followed Canon rules in his scenario.


(Quite obviously, if the question of the Thread is asking how one could House Rule the defeat of the Splugorth, then all one has to do is make something like a rift to the Three Galaxies, sneak in and re-program the Artifact, then rift it back and have it target and destroy every living thing on Atlantis. HOUSE RULING a Splugorth defeat takes about 10 seconds. Maybe longer if one takes the time to use Writer's Fiat to dumb the Alien Intelligences down.

But a House Rule defeat of the Splugorth was most definitely NOT the signal that he was sending when he asked others how they would pull it off in the OP.)

[cornholioprime]

Well to start the Kittani are not happy with the Splugorth so they are a potential source to turn against him. The sunaj probably could be turned against him. Especially if someone shows them they are being used.

The Kittani aren't THAT unhappy under Splugorth rule (although ARCHIE is trying to manipulate them into thinking that the Mechanoids are on Earth with the intention of causing a split; however, even Rifts: Aftermath and Rifts: Sourcebook One (UE) state that this is an extreme longshot.

And don't forget that Splynncryth is looking forward to the Sunaj betraying him; they are so minor in the grand scheme of things, that he thinks of their impending betrayal as just another episode in a soap opera.

[Dustin Fireblade]

snipped

So basically what you are saying is that since his game was different, again as he pointed out in his very first post, he's completely wrong?

As you of course know, Questions posited to the Forums are generally asking for an answer based in turn upon canon rules.

Am I, or anybody else here, stating that if he goes by his own House Rules that it's still impossible??

Also, notice that in the majority of his responses to others during the course of this Thread, he is countering questioners of his adventure as if he, too, followed Canon rules in his scenario.

But a House Rule defeat of the Splugorth was most definitely NOT the signal that he was sending when he asked others how they would pull it off in the OP.)

Well, since the OP (which is not Ryu btw) was asking a completely theoretical question, and himself later posted an idea that sounded "good in theory" I don't see any problem with another poster offering his own idea's based on his/her game and/or house rules.

Again, as was clearly stated with Ryu's first post: "my game setting is very much different from yours and anybody's in this matter" so in that regard it does seem to me at least he is being told it's impossible.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Even if he canonically he killed Splnny there is NO WAY canonically his group also took out The Yami Kings, The Oni, The Gargoyles, The Angel of Death, The Warlords, The Phoenix Empire, The Four Horseman, Lord Dunscan, The Brothers, The CS, A.R.C.H.I.E & The Shemarrians, All the demons from the Calgary and St. Louis Rifts, Desmond Bradford, The Mechinoids, All the vampires AND vampire intelligences in Mexico along with every other threat to Rifts Earth!

Our D&D game we killed all the arch-devils and demon lords listed in the Monster Manuals....


Also just to note - my read is that only the Splugorth were defeated in battle....

[Dustin Fireblade]

Even if he canonically he killed Splnny there is NO WAY canonically his group also took out The Yami Kings, The Oni, The Gargoyles, The Angel of Death, The Warlords, The Phoenix Empire, The Four Horseman, Lord Dunscan, The Brothers, The CS, A.R.C.H.I.E & The Shemarrians, All the demons from the Calgary and St. Louis Rifts, Desmond Bradford, The Mechinoids, All the vampires AND vampire intelligences in Mexico along with every other threat to Rifts Earth!

Our D&D game we killed all the arch-devils and demon lords listed in the Monster Manuals....


Also just to note - my read is that only the Splugorth were defeated in battle....

He stated to me previously that Earth was free from ALL tyranny.

Yes, yes he did.

Why do you assume he meant he did it in battle then?
(Note I have no idea, or know Ryu from Adam...)


edit - correct spelling

[Dustin Fireblade]

snipped

So basically what you are saying is that since his game was different, again as he pointed out in his very first post, he's completely wrong?

As you of course know, Questions posited to the Forums are generally asking for an answer based in turn upon canon rules.

Am I, or anybody else here, stating that if he goes by his own House Rules that it's still impossible??

Also, notice that in the majority of his responses to others during the course of this Thread, he is countering questioners of his adventure as if he, too, followed Canon rules in his scenario.

But a House Rule defeat of the Splugorth was most definitely NOT the signal that he was sending when he asked others how they would pull it off in the OP.)

Well, since the OP (which is not Ryu btw) was asking a completely theoretical question, and himself later posted an idea that sounded "good in theory" I don't see any problem with another poster offering his own idea's based on his/her game and/or house rules.

Again, as was clearly stated with Ryu's first post: "my game setting is very much different from yours and anybody's in this matter" so in that regard it does seem to me at least he is being told it's impossible.

So if his game is very different from anybody's then more then likely it's not canonical, so if it's not canonical who cares that he killed off Splnny, I think most of us are just saying canonically speaking it is near impossible and I am saying there is no way in seven hells he took out every threat to Rifts earth unless he shut down every nexus point in the world.

Yes that was my point.

The OP asked for theories, and himself posted a not so canon response later.

And he get's slammed for it...

[Daeglan]

snipped

So basically what you are saying is that since his game was different, again as he pointed out in his very first post, he's completely wrong?

As you of course know, Questions posited to the Forums are generally asking for an answer based in turn upon canon rules.

Am I, or anybody else here, stating that if he goes by his own House Rules that it's still impossible??

Also, notice that in the majority of his responses to others during the course of this Thread, he is countering questioners of his adventure as if he, too, followed Canon rules in his scenario.

But a House Rule defeat of the Splugorth was most definitely NOT the signal that he was sending when he asked others how they would pull it off in the OP.)

Well, since the OP (which is not Ryu btw) was asking a completely theoretical question, and himself later posted an idea that sounded "good in theory" I don't see any problem with another poster offering his own idea's based on his/her game and/or house rules.

Again, as was clearly stated with Ryu's first post: "my game setting is very much different from yours and anybody's in this matter" so in that regard it does seem to me at least he is being told it's impossible.

So if his game is very different from anybody's then more then likely it's not canonical, so if it's not canonical who cares that he killed off Splnny, I think most of us are just saying canonically speaking it is near impossible and I am saying there is no way in seven hells he took out every threat to Rifts earth unless he shut down every nexus point in the world.

Are you seriously gonna claim any game is canonical? By the way I am pretty sure Kevin would say yes Splyncryth can be killed.

[cornholioprime]

Well, since the OP (which is not Ryu btw) was asking a completely theoretical question, and himself later posted an idea that sounded "good in theory" I don't see any problem with another poster offering his own idea's based on his/her game and/or house rules.

Again, as was clearly stated with Ryu's first post: "my game setting is very much different from yours and anybody's in this matter" so in that regard it does seem to me at least he is being told it's impossible.

In that regard, then, he (Ryu) shouldn't have proffered a series of responses throughout this Thread that countered or rejected every suggestion that he was bending the rules to get his own scenario to work; by doing so he strongly implied that he did indeed pull his campaign off by following official rules.


EDIT: P.S. -I went back over Dr. Megaverse's posts in this Thread and at no time does he seem to have the desire or inclination to stray from official rules in his quest to drive the Splugorth off; I for one saw nothing "unofficial" or "dumbed down" in his own proposed assault of the continent.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Well, since the OP (which is not Ryu btw) was asking a completely theoretical question, and himself later posted an idea that sounded "good in theory" I don't see any problem with another poster offering his own idea's based on his/her game and/or house rules.

Again, as was clearly stated with Ryu's first post: "my game setting is very much different from yours and anybody's in this matter" so in that regard it does seem to me at least he is being told it's impossible.

In that regard, then, he (Ryu) shouldn't have proffered a series of responses throughout this Thread that countered or rejected every suggestion that he was bending the rules to get his own scenario to work; by doing so he strongly implied that he did indeed pull his campaign off by following official rules.


EDIT: P.S. -I went back over Dr. Megaverse's posts in this Thread and at no time does he seem to have the desire or inclination to stray from official rules in his quest to drive the Splugorth off; I for one saw nothing "unofficial" or "dumbed down" in his own proposed assault of the continent.

Yes I do see what you are saying, but I also believe it's more than possible (and in some cases far more feasible) to use a mix of canon and non-canon in a game.

Now if we all agree that it's theoretically possible to defeat Splyncryth, then I'd suggest that any post that asking how to do that is in fact asking for theories. At least IMHO.

(and yes regarding Dr. M's 2nd post on how to defeat the Sploogs - I'm quite sure there are more than enough sub-orbital aircraft running around on Rifts Earth to do the job, and they won't be detected by either the orbitals or the Kittani, whom happen to be one of the most technologically advanced races in the megaverse themselves, or that there's enough sub's and SLBM's to cause major destruction to Atlantis, or enough highly trained Psi-ghosts and stone masters to secure the pyramids in the first place. Heck the CS and NGR should be able to do this anytime they want to then!)

[cornholioprime]

(and yes regarding Dr. M's 2nd post on how to defeat the Sploogs - I'm quite sure there are more than enough sub-orbital aircraft running around on Rifts Earth to do the job, and they won't be detected by either the orbitals or the Kittani, whom happen to be one of the most technologically advanced races in the megaverse themselves, or that there's enough sub's and SLBM's to cause major destruction to Atlantis, or enough highly trained Psi-ghosts and stone masters to secure the pyramids in the first place. Heck the CS and NGR should be able to do this anytime they want to then!)

I've no problem picking apart Dr. Megaverse's plan......but the major difference, to my eyes anyway, is that he isn't trying to turn his Stupid Ray on Atlantis' defenses in the process.

He (Dr. M) is just fleshing out the beginnings of a plan, and I'm sure that he is open to constructive criticism; Ryu on the other hand has already shown over the course of multiple postings (unknowingly I think) just how stupid he made Splynnie in order to get his "insurgency" plan to work..

[Dustin Fireblade]

Well just for grins and giggles -
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35320

(At least we all now know that Corn has been pretty consistent all these years... )

[Dustin Fireblade]

He (Dr. M) is just fleshing out the beginnings of a plan, and I'm sure that he is open to constructive criticism; Ryu on the other hand has already shown over the course of multiple postings (unknowingly I think) just how stupid he made Splynnie in order to get his "insurgency" plan to work..

I'm pretty sure it was Corinth that suggested a insurgency first, and Ryu confirmed there is a existing canon group on Atlantis already doing this. Unless I missed it somewhere, I don't believe Ryu ever said that he used a insurgency to defeat Atlantis?

[keir451]

In two of my games we didn't evict the Splugorth. Sure we had the firepower to do it, but we ended up striking a deal w/Splynncryth; He stops slaving actions on Earth, no more on planet or in system backroom deals that affect Earth and he can still run his business. Atlantis can still be a Megaversal "port of call" and he backs us up 'cause if anyone comes to try and take Earth they potentially intefere in Splynn's business and profits.
(Our "firepower" consisted of an ex Marduk ofiicer who'd learned magic and psionics and created a fleet of Rifts "Ships of Jurai" using Millenium Trees and Nazca Line magic and the very spirit of the planet as well.) That and the backing of ALL the Pantheons of Light, and some of the more "amenable" Gods of Darkness as well.

[The Beast]

Yes that was my point.

The OP asked for theories, and himself posted a not so canon response later.

And he get's slammed for it...

And if he'd be willing to provide a little more details instead of sitting there with his head up his ass I'm sure most of it wouldn't be happening.

Even if he canonically he killed Splnny there is NO WAY canonically his group also took out The Yami Kings, The Oni, The Gargoyles, The Angel of Death, The Warlords, The Phoenix Empire, The Four Horseman, Lord Dunscan, The Brothers, The CS, A.R.C.H.I.E & The Shemarrians, All the demons from the Calgary and St. Louis Rifts, Desmond Bradford, The Mechinoids, All the vampires AND vampire intelligences in Mexico along with every other threat to Rifts Earth!

Well that's what he said he did, so... yeah... way to go dude...

[Daeglan]

Its a freaking RPG, PCs are suppose to be able to do the impossible. Why are you guys poo pooing a group doing just that?

[Lucas]

my group tricked the yama kings into attacking atlantis once and it did not end well

[Dustin Fireblade]

Yes that was my point.

The OP asked for theories, and himself posted a not so canon response later.

And he get's slammed for it...

And if he'd be willing to provide a little more details instead of sitting there with his head up his ass I'm sure most of it wouldn't be happening.

Even if he canonically he killed Splnny there is NO WAY canonically his group also took out The Yami Kings, The Oni, The Gargoyles, The Angel of Death, The Warlords, The Phoenix Empire, The Four Horseman, Lord Dunscan, The Brothers, The CS, A.R.C.H.I.E & The Shemarrians, All the demons from the Calgary and St. Louis Rifts, Desmond Bradford, The Mechinoids, All the vampires AND vampire intelligences in Mexico along with every other threat to Rifts Earth!

Well that's what he said he did, so... yeah... way to go dude...

I just find it strange since I just don't recall anyone getting called out like this here before.



And again, to Shinitenshi, there are more ways to defeat an opponent than to just shoot them dead. The only claim I saw was that they defeated Splynn and "secured the earth from all other threats."

Maybe they used the Orb of Solomon on Prosek, who then went on to unit the entire North American continent under one nation (including Quebec, Northern Gun, Kingsdale, Whykin, Lazlo, Tolkeen, Dweomer, Psyscape, all the Native American Preserves) brought in the New Navy and Megaversal Legion and forged a full alliance with the NGR and Sovietski. Meanwhile the players discover ARCHIE and click the reset button on him and get all his tech and satellite comms, and with all this combined firepower they go out and fight all the "smaller" evils in the world and liberate millions more, then appeal to the True Atlanteans to aid them to reclaim their homeland and trick other Sploogs to launch attacks at Splynn's other holdings in a massive simultaneous attack, while the players use tactics not unlike what Dr. Megaverse posted above.

See how easy that was?