How would you evict the Splugorth from Atlantis?

[cornholioprime]

Yes that was my point.

The OP asked for theories, and himself posted a not so canon response later.

And he get's slammed for it...

And if he'd be willing to provide a little more details instead of sitting there with his head up his ass I'm sure most of it wouldn't be happening.

Even if he canonically he killed Splnny there is NO WAY canonically his group also took out The Yami Kings, The Oni, The Gargoyles, The Angel of Death, The Warlords, The Phoenix Empire, The Four Horseman, Lord Dunscan, The Brothers, The CS, A.R.C.H.I.E & The Shemarrians, All the demons from the Calgary and St. Louis Rifts, Desmond Bradford, The Mechinoids, All the vampires AND vampire intelligences in Mexico along with every other threat to Rifts Earth!

Well that's what he said he did, so... yeah... way to go dude...

I just find it strange since I just don't recall anyone getting called out like this here before.



And again, to Shinitenshi, there are more ways to defeat an opponent than to just shoot them dead. The only claim I saw was that they defeated Splynn and "secured the earth from all other threats."

Maybe they used the Orb of Solomon on Prosek, who then went on to unit the entire North American continent under one nation (including Quebec, Northern Gun, Kingsdale, Whykin, Lazlo, Tolkeen, Dweomer, Psyscape, all the Native American Preserves) brought in the New Navy and Megaversal Legion and forged a full alliance with the NGR and Sovietski. Meanwhile the players discover ARCHIE and click the reset button on him and get all his tech and satellite comms, and with all this combined firepower they go out and fight all the "smaller" evils in the world and liberate millions more, then appeal to the True Atlanteans to aid them to reclaim their homeland and trick other Sploogs to launch attacks at Splynn's other holdings in a massive simultaneous attack, while the players use tactics not unlike what Dr. Megaverse posted above.

See how easy that was?

You mean the way that the Splugorth, and all of the other Cosmic Forces -not to mention all those other unnamed parties who have a vested interest in seeing a relatively peaceful Splugorth like Splynncryth run Atlantis as opposed to almost any other Splugorth or Bad Guy.............just lets it all happen??

Especially when most of the Bad Guy Blocs in question far outnumber the forces of good currently on Rifts Earth?

Sounds like a whole lotta Dumbing Down Of The Enemy going on there.......

[ApocalypseZero]

First off: To answer the question of how to evict Splynncryth, it'd be through business. Make it un-worthy to do business on Rifts Earth and he'll go away. But that means ruining all business.

Secondly: While it is great that a poster here took the time to state that his group did something grand, if you'd had said "We killed Splynn, it was awesome." That'd been the end of it. We all would know the answer to how you did it. Which, by the way, the real answer to how he did it is: His GM allowed it to happen. How does anything in an RPG happen? The GM allowed it to happen.

Finally: By stating something outlandish and then denying details and refusing to debate any questions brought up is quite a DICKMOVE. Looking back over the posts, it sounds like a politician or a grade school kid telling a story. I mean, I can tell stories too. I can say, "Hey, I banged your mom last night twice! Yeah, it happened. Oh, she's dead? That's why she didn't move around that much then. What? A lesbian?! Maybe it wasn't her, or maybe she was drunk?"

Now, if you know anyone who'd make that claim and then defend it, with little more than, "It happened, just believe it." You pretty much have the ******** alarm blarring and you ignore the person for the rest of your life.

So, how do you evict Splynn?

His mom grounded him.
His mortgage was through Bank of America and went through some shady deal and was foreclosed on erroneously. (No, didn't happen to me, just tying in a headline.)
Won the rights to Arlantis in a Poker Game! (That's right, the Han Solo Ending!)

[cornholioprime]

Personally I think Splynny is one of the smaller evils, especially compared to THE YAMA KINGS and a whole country of vampires and vampire intelligences. (I have no idea what the orb of Solomon is) Just because it worked on Prosek and he suddenly stopped hating everybody except humans, Dunscan would never side with him, nor would the Warlords in Russia. Also like I said before even IF it was possible to take out all the existing threats on Rifts earth how do you stop anything else from showing up unless you shut down every nexus in the world...which would have some very dire consequences in and of itself.

The Orb of Solomon is an ancient Artifact/MacGuffin/Plot Device in the Siege on Tolkeen series.

It causes the mind of ONE person to completely re-think his life's actions if evil or misguided.

Think of it as a sort of portable Azlum Asylum; the power is maintained inside the body of an Avatar, called the Key of Solomon, who will live either another thousand years after being chosen as the next Key, or until the moment that he or she makes physical contact with the target, whereupon they die instantly regardless of their health or youth. (By the way, the recipient of this power, IIRC, is totally willing to accept it and knows that they will die upon the successful completion of their task.)

There is a group near Tolkeen that hopes to get the Key close enough to Prosek to touch him, and thereby make him see the error of his ways.

As the Book pointed out, however, the entrenched superstructure of the political and military infrastructure of the Coalition States means that Prosek won't have the slightest bit of effect on his nation-state (although the Author did hold out hope that he, being nobody's fool, would try to slowly institute changes to the better over a very long time period).

[Dustin Fireblade]

Sounds like a whole lotta Dumbing Down Of The Enemy going on there.......

You defeat your enemies by being smarter than them.

Besides I'd take a wild guess that there are a good number of cosmic powers that wouldn't mind seeing the True Atlanteans retake their homeland either, so that's really just canceling out anyone who wants to keep Splynn in power (which I believe is what Ryu did - Atlantis was returned to the True Atlanteans)

I'm also pretty sure that there would be more than one other Splugorth that wouldn't mind sticking it to Splynn (the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that). That's going to cancel out the number's advantage.

At any rate I certainly wouldn't expect a scenario like that to work overnight, and I believe there would be some serious "aggressive negotiations" going on as well to allow for a complete North American unification (purging his own government and eliminating Dunscon and his followers). Besides the CS propaganda service is by canon practically invincible all by itself. Perhaps even better yet, the Orb's wisdom is given to Joseph instead? He'll have more than enough time to make all the changes he needs.




Here's another scenario -
Go back in time and kill Splynncryth when he comes out of the rift in England...

[cornholioprime]

Sounds like a whole lotta Dumbing Down Of The Enemy going on there.......

You defeat your enemies by being smarter than them.

Allowing the nations of Earth to just do whatever they want and attack when they wish isn't a matter of "being smarter" than your Enemy.

It's using Writer's Fiat to make the Enemy dumber that it would usually be.

Besides I'd take a wild guess that there are a good number of cosmic powers that wouldn't mind seeing the True Atlanteans retake their homeland either, so that's really just canceling out anyone who wants to keep Splynn in power (which I believe is what Ryu did - Atlantis was returned to the True Atlanteans)

I'm also pretty sure that there would be more than one other Splugorth that wouldn't mind sticking it to Splynn (the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that). That's going to cancel out the number's advantage.

At any rate I certainly wouldn't expect a scenario like that to work overnight, and I believe there would be some serious "aggressive negotiations" going on as well to allow for a complete North American unification (purging his own government and eliminating Dunscon and his followers). Besides the CS propaganda service is by canon practically invincible all by itself. Perhaps even better yet, the Orb's wisdom is given to Joseph instead? He'll have more than enough time to make all the changes he needs.

It's not that you are applying "X Factors" to the actions of the Splugorth -that's totally understandable; it's that you're artificially keeping the actions of The Good Guys (who in this case aren't really all that god themselves in many cases) from being similarly, negatively affected.

Here's another scenario -
Go back in time and kill Splynncryth when he comes out of the rift in England...

Sounds plausible......but I, knowing what I know now, wouldn't have done it.

Why??

Because it wasn't just Splynncryth who discovered Atlantis -he was just the first guy to stake the claim.

All of the Splugorth knew about the place.

I most definitely don't approve of sentient beings imprisoned in Rune Weapons and served up on dinner plates while they're still kicking, but as far as the Splugorth go, Splynncryth is most definitely The Devil You Know as opposed to any other (known) Splugorth who might have come by in his stead.....

.......which means that unless I could guarantee that a Good Guy with sufficient power to hold off the Splugorth indefinitely, I would leave him right where he is.

I mean.......what if Roxcryth The Mad, or even Lord Kryygorth had come to Atlantis instead?? The whole planet would likely be a charred lump of rock from all the cosmic-level fighting by now.

[Dustin Fireblade]

It's not that you are applying "X Factors" to the actions of the Splugorth -that's totally understandable; it's that you're artificially keeping the actions of The Good Guys (who in this case aren't really all that god themselves in many cases) from being similarly, negatively affected.

Why would you assume that?

[Lucas]

good and evil do not exist but thinking makes them so...

[Lucas]

you say that like it is a bad thing

[The Beast]

Why would you assume that?

I think cornholioprime just doesn't like evil to die.

News flash, Lord Splynncryth isn't evil.

[Colt47]

Well, the truth is that Atlantis was built with an Achilles heel of sorts. The only reason Atlantis resurfaced on Rifts Earth is because the leylines covering the area reactivated during the Cataclysm. If someone were to redirect the mystic energy away from the land mass again Atlantis would get sent into limbo once more, which is a rather hostile environment to begin with considering the entire continent was stripped barren. However, in order to do this it would take a united front from both the European / African side and the North / South America side. Also, it probably goes without saying that Splynncryth (or however you spell that name) is going to be sending everything he has to make sure said organized fronts don't succeed.

This seems to be the ideal way to handle Atlantis, as it forces Splynn's army to move out from Atlantis to attack. The Army coming out of Atlantis would have to divide it's forces between two fronts and fight four or five different factions simultaneously. Likewise, since Splynn is the attacker its army is at a disadvantage (attacker is always at a disadvantage to the defender). Heck, even if Splynn does win the conflict, the pressure from having to fight on multiple fronts might cause the current Atlantean power structure to implode. He already has to deal with backstabbing from within without a major external conflict: I doubt he could last very long with the kind of forces he would have to use just to make sure he doesn't lose his real estate.

[cornholioprime]

So if I'm personally an anarchist that means I like to manipulate children to wear bombs and kill people?

You would manipulate anyone willing to carry out your self-gratification needs, as an anarchist is described. Did you not read that section in the book?

Splynn does not mirror Hitler, he is a business A.I Hitler was a Monster that sought glory or damnation! Two good and evil are matters of perception What you may see as good another sees as evil. Three Selfish alignment does not mean EVIL, Unprincipled person is just as willing to do a bad action as an anarchist .

A selfish alignment does both good and evil. An anarchist by its natural does way more evil than an unprincipled alignment character. Did you not read that section in the book?

Maybe you want to go back and read the Anarchist again...it clearly states they would never kill an innocent, so your strapping bombs to children and making them suicide bombers is FAIL!

Just for approving of the trapping of Faerie Folk into small, enclosed spaces for the rest of eternity -in constant pain and a fate even worse than that of a Soul in a Rune weapon -Splynncryth should be labeled "Diabolic," not just "Anarchist."

[cornholioprime]

Ordering someone else to kill innocents is morally the same as if the actor did the deed himself; the only difference is that he barked an order instead of pulling the switch -in either case, he knew what would happen and he willfully went ahead and ordered the act done anyway.

By that standard, then, the various things that Splynncryth either does or condones in Atlantis kicks him out of the "Anarchist" club.

[cornholioprime]

Ordering someone else to kill innocents is morally the same as if the actor did the deed himself; the only difference is that he barked an order instead of pulling the switch -in either case, he knew what would happen and he willfully went ahead and ordered the act done anyway.

So by your statements, Hitler ordering the massacre of the Jews is not considered evil then?

How in the Nine Hells did you get "not evil" from that sentence??


I consider Splynncryth's actions in toto to be Diabolic or at least Miscreant at the very best, since he actively and explicitly and knowingly has his minions do all sorts of Miscreant and Diabolic deeds on his behalf.

[Corinth]

I do not argue, as Emperor Ryu does, that a military campaign upon Atlantis is necessary. My argument is that Lord Splynn is a businessman first and foremost, and therefore his holding of Atlantis is dependent upon a merchant's calculation of holding Atlantis to be worth the expense of time, wealth and other resources spent on doing so. I claim that it is possible to evict Splynn from Atlantis by making it driving up the cost of doing so, continually, until it exceeds the critical threshold that would prompt Splynn to relocate elsewhere that has a superior return on investment. To do this, it is not necessary to maintain violent operations on Atlantis itself; the use of violence, as a deliberate tool employed to advance this aim, is best deployed away from Atlantis proper and towards its many "partners" (clients).

Insurgency, remember, is a political tool. The use of force is only one part of that overall strategy. Cutting Splynn off from his trading partners is conducting an insurgency, and arguably a far more useful path to follow than attempting to overthrow it militarily. Organizing Splynn's rivals and enemies against him is conducting an insurgency. Using what is, without a doubt, a military force of numerical inferiority alone is little more than carrying out a suicide pact by another name; this simply will not do. Far, far better to follow the examples of successful historical insurgencies than to play at being La Resistance; guerrilla actions against Atlantis proper, therefore, is best considered to be a diversionary tool to distract attention away from where the real damage gets done- instead, what should be going on is forming and using a proper intelligence network separate and independent of any guerrilla operations. You send the cowboys to get themselves blown up- and you ensure that they do get blown up when necessary; you send your reliable tradecraft experts to observe and report, but never make any noise.

Control the narrative--and I use that term as used in Political Science--and you can defeat an Alien Intelligence without ever see its alien face.

[ApocalypseZero]

For someone who won't tell anything about his game and accomplishments, you continue to do so.

My Human Vagabond is now the Emperor of the Coalition States, the owner of a fleet of Macross Cannons, has slain the Old Ones, arm wrestled a Nightlord, met Darth Vader, kicked it with Bumblebee, killed Vampires with Jesus, and got back home to enjoy a nice steak and potatoes for dinner. I wish I could tell you more about it, but I can't. I can tell you the steak was perfect, real kobi beef.


Ryu, you haven't done anything spectacular that anyone else hasn't done. I've heard of people destroying Chi-Town, ruling the Three Galaxies, and replacing the Pantheons of Gods in their games. It's all great. Well done. You accomplished something. I don't need any details. I have the one that's most important. But instead of coming here and contributing a respectful post using the 'World As Written', you choose to almost enforce that what you do in your game is now 'World As Written'. We all here have played games where things were done that perhaps should not have. But we leave it in the game. You seem to be clinging to it as if it was a 'real life accomplishment'. That's troubling and if this is truely your thinking, I ask you to see Psychiatric Help. If this is not, please cease your political-esque grandstanding (as it only makes you look like an ass), and fall in line with the rest of us.

And a question: Does your GM visit these boards? Would he kind enough to contact me via PM? I'd just like to chat with him.

[Addendum] At what point does repeat oneself become detrimental to the boards and voilates the rules and conduct therein?

[Mallak's Place]

[

For someone who won't tell anything about his game and accomplishments, you continue to do so.

Yes, because this is a place where we can talk about all of our experiences.

But you are not talking about your experiences. You just keep making the same statement... Repeatedly.

If you are unwilling to share the detail of the great feat, that’s fine. But please refrain from mentioning it constantly (your Sig is more then adequate). Making such bold statements (repeatedly) without collaborating information is of no value to anyone, and tends to annoy some of our fellow board members.

Thank you.

[Dustin Fireblade]

For someone who won't tell anything about his game and accomplishments, you continue to do so.

Ryu, you haven't done anything spectacular that anyone else hasn't done. I've heard of people destroying Chi-Town, ruling the Three Galaxies, and replacing the Pantheons of Gods in their games. It's all great. Well done. You accomplished something. I don't need any details. I have the one that's most important. But instead of coming here and contributing a respectful post using the 'World As Written', you choose to almost enforce that what you do in your game is now 'World As Written'. We all here have played games where things were done that perhaps should not have. But we leave it in the game. You seem to be clinging to it as if it was a 'real life accomplishment'. That's troubling and if this is truely your thinking, I ask you to see Psychiatric Help. If this is not, please cease your political-esque grandstanding (as it only makes you look like an ass), and fall in line with the rest of us.


[Addendum] At what point does repeat oneself become detrimental to the boards and voilates the rules and conduct therein?

The hilarity here is that it was Ryu who was pretty much called out on it, with a number of people asking for details, and then getting ticked when when he doesn't....

[Dustin Fireblade]

[

For someone who won't tell anything about his game and accomplishments, you continue to do so.

Yes, because this is a place where we can talk about all of our experiences.

But you are not talking about your experiences. You just keep making the same statement... Repeatedly.

Because other people keep talking about it, forcing him to respond, isn't a issue?

[Daeglan]

What I find sad is that this is such a big deal to them.

Splyncryth is a table. a mega damage table to be sure. but if you go kicking the legs out you pretty soon topple the table.

[The Beast]

So if I'm personally an anarchist that means I like to manipulate children to wear bombs and kill people?

You would manipulate anyone willing to carry out your self-gratification needs, as an anarchist is described. Did you not read that section in the book?

Splynn does not mirror Hitler, he is a business A.I Hitler was a Monster that sought glory or damnation! Two good and evil are matters of perception What you may see as good another sees as evil. Three Selfish alignment does not mean EVIL, Unprincipled person is just as willing to do a bad action as an anarchist .

A selfish alignment does both good and evil. An anarchist by its natural does way more evil than an unprincipled alignment character. Did you not read that section in the book?

Maybe you want to go back and read the Anarchist again...it clearly states they would never kill an innocent, so your strapping bombs to children and making them suicide bombers is FAIL!

Just for approving of the trapping of Faerie Folk into small, enclosed spaces for the rest of eternity -in constant pain and a fate even worse than that of a Soul in a Rune weapon -Splynncryth should be labeled "Diabolic," not just "Anarchist."

There are several people in the books whose alignments don't make sense and yes Splynny is one of them.

Agreed.

[The Beast]

FAIL AGAIN, I mean I can keep this up forever man your just wrong to use muscle means to get physical That means to hurt or strong arm them. Honestly you can keep your morality to yourself and save yourself some time and alot of fail post by just stopping now, Anarchist is selfish not evil.

"Use torture" implies "physical". Muscle is muscle, meaning look at them. Thus means intimidation.

Anarchist is more evil than unprincipled characters. Your entire argument failed to see this.

No, anarchist is more selfish than unprincipled.

[The Beast]

I refer to the books that accurately describes the Splugorths and (the deceased, in my game) Lord Splynncryth (a.k.a. Splynny Carcass, Splugorth Loser, again, in my game).

You mean the one that clearly labels him as selfish and not evil?

[ApocalypseZero]

I love the out-of-context quoting and then the self-gratification, however....

But instead of coming here and contributing a respectful post using the 'World As Written', you choose to almost enforce that what you do in your game is now 'World As Written'. We all here have played games where things were done that perhaps should not have. But we leave it in the game. You seem to be clinging to it as if it was a 'real life accomplishment'. That's troubling and if this is truely your thinking, I ask you to see Psychiatric Help. If this is not, please cease your political-esque grandstanding (as it only makes you look like an ass), and fall in line with the rest of us.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I love the out-of-context quoting and then the self-gratification, however....

But instead of coming here and contributing a respectful post using the 'World As Written', you choose to almost enforce that what you do in your game is now 'World As Written'. We all here have played games where things were done that perhaps should not have. But we leave it in the game. You seem to be clinging to it as if it was a 'real life accomplishment'. That's troubling and if this is truely your thinking, I ask you to see Psychiatric Help. If this is not, please cease your political-esque grandstanding (as it only makes you look like an ass), and fall in line with the rest of us.

With Ryu's 1st posting in this thread, he contributed a respectful post to the OP's question.


In case it was missed -

For me, it took a hell of a lot of planning, studying, patience, and using Sun Tzu's "Art of War" as a basis, that earned me victory over the Splugorths on Rifts Earth. I won't go into the details, because my game setting is very much different from yours and anybody's in this matter. However, I will point out that if you have the true courage and strength to endure in what demands that lie in wait, . . . you can achieve this goal.

Good Luck to you. The Splugorth are indeed a formidable opponent to have so many influences over most of Rifts Earth

He then stated later he would not disclose details about the campaign, to which I'm going to guess it would take a while to write out all the details so that we could properly understand it is at least a partial reason. I have no idea why, but for some strange reason, people didn't like that. And because of that he has been pretty much continually taken to task over the last three pages.

[Mack]

TOPIC LOCKED.

Official Warnings to be issued.