House rule or Official?

[Mouser13]

Well I'm playing in a new group and they have a rule that I think is house rule, but I was just checking your guys opinion.

First we can dodge if we are being targeted, but if not then their is no dodge.

Becausely is people can't dodge blast radius. So if say someone is hit with a missile people in the area can't dodge out of the area.

Or second way he is using it is NPC are droping grendas on them self we can't dodge out of the way.

This just destroy juicers and auto-dodge? ie we just target the ground.

[Severus Snape]

This sounds like a house rule to me, and a poor one at that.

So, if a grenade lands somewhere near you, you can't dive for cover or jump to the other side of the wall or around a corner to avoid the blast? If you see a missile coming in, you can't get out of the way before it lands?

I'm with Abub - as long as you are aware of the attack, no matter what the attack is, you should be able to dodge (unless it clearly is stated in the rules that you can't).

[Damian Magecraft]

Well I'm playing in a new group and they have a rule that I think is house rule, but I was just checking your guys opinion.

First we can dodge if we are being targeted, but if not then their is no dodge.

Becausely is people can't dodge blast radius. So if say someone is hit with a missile people in the area can't dodge out of the area.

Or second way he is using it is NPC are droping grendas on them self we can't dodge out of the way.

This just destroy juicers and auto-dodge? ie we just target the ground.

yeah it is a house rule. and a **** poor one at that (as has been already stated.)
caution... this is easily abusable by a competent player. (use the rule against him load up on grenades. take wp grenade. etc...)I do not think the GM thought this one out.

[dragonfett]

So since this has been established as a house rule, what is the number that you have to roll to dodge out of an explosives blast radius, does anyone know?

[SkyeFyre]

From what I recall any dodge is made against the original strike roll of the attacker.

So even if Bob the juicer throws a grenade at Frank the headhunter with a strike roll of 15, Joe the cyber-knight who's standing next to Frank needs to roll against 15.

[dragonfett]

IIRC, I had thought that attempting to dodge out of a blast radius was a 15 or an 18 or something like that. I know I remember reading in the RUE that a roll of 15 or higher is needed for a roll with impact from a fall.

[glitterboy2098]

RUE specifically covers blast radii and dodging. unless it's one of the large blast radius weapons (larger blast radius than the character could cross in one action), dodging reduces the damage down by 1/2. and keep in mind, only the target hit directly takes full damage, those just in the blast radius already only take 1/2. so if the grenade is merely dropped near the character, and he dodges, he'd take only 1/4 the damage.

[dragonfett]

So if they dodge and roll with impact, then they would take 1/8th, correct?

[Damian Magecraft]

So if they dodge and roll with impact, then they would take 1/8th, correct?

that sounds right.

[Damian Magecraft]

RUE specifically covers blast radii and dodging. unless it's one of the large blast radius weapons (larger blast radius than the character could cross in one action), dodging reduces the damage down by 1/2. and keep in mind, only the target hit directly takes full damage, those just in the blast radius already only take 1/2. so if the grenade is merely dropped near the character, and he dodges, he'd take only 1/4 the damage.

Page Number? I seem to be over looking it.

[Jorel]

p. 362 3rd printing.

[Damian Magecraft]

p. 362 3rd printing.

thank you.

[Carl Gleba]

Well I'm playing in a new group and they have a rule that I think is house rule, but I was just checking your guys opinion.

First we can dodge if we are being targeted, but if not then their is no dodge.

Becausely is people can't dodge blast radius. So if say someone is hit with a missile people in the area can't dodge out of the area.

Or second way he is using it is NPC are droping grendas on them self we can't dodge out of the way.

This just destroy juicers and auto-dodge? ie we just target the ground.

I agree with everyone else, this is a house rule. Is it applied to everyone including enemy combatants or do just the player characters suffer?

Anyway for Juicers it says they can dodge even if they don't know its coming. Page 79 RUE, 1st ED.

As a GM I'll look at the blast radius. If it's small enough and the character has a reasonable chance of dodging out of the blast radius I'll let them, but same applies to both sides of the conflict. Of course this is typically BR's under 6 feet. Anything greater than that they should probably roll with it.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well I'm playing in a new group and they have a rule that I think is house rule, but I was just checking your guys opinion.

First we can dodge if we are being targeted, but if not then their is no dodge.

Becausely is people can't dodge blast radius. So if say someone is hit with a missile people in the area can't dodge out of the area.

Or second way he is using it is NPC are droping grendas on them self we can't dodge out of the way.

This just destroy juicers and auto-dodge? ie we just target the ground.

If you're in the blast radius, you're being targeted.

[glitterboy2098]

blast radius = indescriminate targeting

[drewkitty ~..~]

Well I'm playing in a new group and they have a rule that I think is house rule, but I was just checking your guys opinion.

First we can dodge if we are being targeted, but if not then their is no dodge.

Becausely is people can't dodge blast radius. So if say someone is hit with a missile people in the area can't dodge out of the area.

Or second way he is using it is NPC are droping grendas on them self we can't dodge out of the way.

This just destroy juicers and auto-dodge? ie we just target the ground.

these are GM rulings, aka house rules.

[Damian Magecraft]

So if they dodge and roll with impact, then they would take 1/8th, correct?

that sounds right.

Absolutely not. You can try one or the other, but not both. And logically, you wouldn't have time for both, nor would you be in a physiological position to make that attempt.

Dodge and Roll do not stack, and you definitely cannot fail a dodge and then attempt to roll afterward. Doesn't work that way. And this is why (typically) bonuses to Roll with impact are higher than bonuses to dodge -- you are forced to make a choice between a high chance of avoiding half damage, and a lower chance of avoiding all of it.

cite your source.

[Damian Magecraft]

So if they dodge and roll with impact, then they would take 1/8th, correct?

that sounds right.

Absolutely not. You can try one or the other, but not both. And logically, you wouldn't have time for both, nor would you be in a physiological position to make that attempt.

Dodge and Roll do not stack, and you definitely cannot fail a dodge and then attempt to roll afterward. Doesn't work that way. And this is why (typically) bonuses to Roll with impact are higher than bonuses to dodge -- you are forced to make a choice between a high chance of avoiding half damage, and a lower chance of avoiding all of it.

cite your source.

RUE p.340-341 does NOT specifically mention not being able to perform both.

RUE p.364 mentions two separate dodge rolls to dodge both a) the missile/grenade and b) the blast radius, but using two attacks.

So I may be incorrect about the specific rule (my bad), and I will continue to dig and try to figure out where I got this idea from. However, as a GM I find practices like this to be vaguely abusive and if I did allow it at all, it would be situational at best, and the Roll with Impact attempt would come at a penalty.

well by the rules in RMB (old school rules) there is no cost to Roll with Punch/fall/impact.
By RUE (new rules) there is no cost to roll with punch/fall/impact.
(as a house rule I only allow one Roll per melee)

EDIT: correction: RUE Pg:341 Roll with impact costs one melee action. (presumably your next action)

[Mercdog]

Well I'm playing in a new group and they have a rule that I think is house rule, but I was just checking your guys opinion.

First we can dodge if we are being targeted, but if not then their is no dodge.

Becausely is people can't dodge blast radius. So if say someone is hit with a missile people in the area can't dodge out of the area.

Or second way he is using it is NPC are droping grendas on them self we can't dodge out of the way.

This just destroy juicers and auto-dodge? ie we just target the ground.

I would only agree with not allowing auto-dodge for things like blast radius. I've always seen the Auto-dodge as bobbing and weaving or side stepping to avoid attacks. IMO, avoiding a blast from grenades or missiles should require more deliberate defensive action. Such as running, or leaping out of the immediate area. But this is one of those gray areas where GMs must make the ruling that is best for their games.

[Armorlord]

Huh, so many people responded with calling it a house rule that I got confused and went back through my books, since I've been allowing some attempts at dodging blast radius as a house rule for years.
Reading the RUE rules on page 362, Damage from Missile Strike, still make it sound like the only hope is to Roll with Impact, as does the description of Radius Damage on the following page, but page 364, Dodging Missiles, does introduce some hope of dodging the blast radius, for the target of the missile itself after successfully avoiding being struck directly and being reminded that they still have to worry about the blast radius. It comes down to whether the target can move fast enough to clear the blast or reach suitable cover. This new rule is somewhat more generous than my old house rule, since it allows the direct target to spend a second action on further dodging if it is too far to reach with their initial dodge, which is kind of hollywood-silly, and they also don't mention non-direct targets at all, who I also allow a dodge attempt if their speed is high enough to give them a chance to clear the blast or reach convenient cover nearby.

But in answer to the original question, I doubt the GM is using a house rule so much as a harsher interpretation of the rules and possibly using older rules as well. As I said, I had been previously allowing some attempts as a house rule, ye olde RMB allows nothing except Roll with Impact vs a blast radius and RGMG doesn't comment on blast radius. Double checking with Robotech shows the old books matching with the RMB and the new ones matching up with the RUE.
As for auto-dodge, it doesn't grant you the ability to dodge the undodgeable, except for unexpected attacks. Now, whether it should be something that can be dodged comes back to what rules he's using.

[dragonfett]

If it is a missile that you are dodging, there is always the chance that you won't get caught in the blast as it flies past you and explodes when hitting something behind you far enough away from you that you are safe from the damage.

[Damian Magecraft]

i think its only volleys you can't dodge.

only if it is a volley of four. however there are other defense options.