Crowdsourcing an HU world history

[Prince Cherico]

Project wonderland

After the second world war a question rose up about what to do with the now
returning super soligers of the second world war. The war had spawn a few
successful programs with project pandora being the most successful.
Then the soviet union tested their first successful nuke clear weapon.

President elect Ike Esinhower worked with republicans to create a federal make
work project to protect the populace from a nuke clear war. Ever worried about
deficit spending and doubtfull of the ability of said shelters to protect the populace
President Esinhower legalised hemp and hemp products and put a 10% federal tax
on them. This outraged a few anti drug organisations but Esenhower guilted them
with a speech about protecting americas children from nuke clear attack. It was a
cynical tactic but it worked. 108 citys were chosen as safe zones the hemp tax would
pay for massive geo fronts under these citys. For political reasons every state capital
would have a geo front after that geo fronts would be put under the largest citys
in america. Ex super soilgers would provide labor to make the geo fronts more cost
effective.

During the 1990s the cold war ended but the political will to end the project
wonderland never materialised. The hemp industry and the effected cities refused to
let the program die. The cities because the project brouhgt engineers and esstentially
free subway systems and needed revenue, the hemp industry because of their
fears of government intervention, and thus the sprawling geo fronts continue to
grow larger and more complex with every decade.

[Rallan]

To this day Germany still has the most stable super soldier program in the world and enough mutants to defend their boarders.

I dunno, the rest worked pretty well (if anyone was gonna have WWII's most advanced - and most diabolical - supersoldier project, it'd be Nazi Germany), but after the war Germany kept very little of its real-world scientific advances. West and East fought for the chance to recruit (or dragoon) the best and brightest minds from Germany's rocketry, aviation, and nuclear programs, and plundered the data from the ghoulish medical experiments performed in German and Japanese death camps.

Perhaps it might gel a little easier with history if the Germany lost its superheroic edge (although as a healthy first world country it can probably afford a prettty decent program now), and the Soviet and American supersoldier programs are as good as they are today because both of them ransacked Germany's labs for data and secretly recruited some of its most brilliant and diabolical minds. So as well as poaching rocket scientist like Von Braun and his crew (who were all intimately familiar with the fact that their Mittelwerk factory was killing thousands of camp labourers) and stealing the fruits of Mengele's ghoulish experiments, perhaps they also poached the twisted minds who created Germany's ubermensch.

So every student of superhuman history knows that Commandant Ilsa was executed for her vivisection experiments on Polish and Russian superhumans, and that the dreaded Doktor Siebenschadel (who distilled and consumed the minds of six other geniuses to boost his own intelligence) took his own life rather than reveal the secrets of his Drachensoldat program. But nobody knows that the super-serum that gave Liberty Belle her powers was based on Imperial Japanese research that left hundreds of Chinese POWs and civilians dead. And if it weren't for the fall of the Soviet Union, nobody would know that the KGB's notorious Stalinoruzhiem ("Steel Weapon") anti-supers strike force was created with advanced cybernetic technology that the Russians developed after using Siebenschadel's own brain-distiller to extract his mind from his corpse.

Basically it'd go a long way towards making the Nazis' supersoldier research fit into the broader history of WWII German science, and make the history of Cold War supers seem that little bit more ruthless and cynical (which is what the Cold War is all about ). Plus it means that if you want to add a dash of angst to signature "patriot" superheroes you've got a dark secret that you can tie it into, and you've got a nasty bit of canon history that you can build on if you want America or Russia to have a supersoldier program that's not very nice.

[Prince Cherico]

Project wonderland

After the second world war a question rose up about what to do with the now
returning super soligers of the second world war. The war had spawn a few
successful programs with project pandora being the most successful.
Then the soviet union tested their first successful nuke clear weapon.

President elect Ike Esinhower worked with republicans to create a federal make
work project to protect the populace from a nuke clear war. Ever worried about
deficit spending and doubtfull of the ability of said shelters to protect the populace
President Esinhower legalised hemp and hemp products and put a 10% federal tax
on them. This outraged a few anti drug organisations but Esenhower guilted them
with a speech about protecting americas children from nuke clear attack. It was a
cynical tactic but it worked. 108 citys were chosen as safe zones the hemp tax would
pay for massive geo fronts under these citys. For political reasons every state capital
would have a geo front after that geo fronts would be put under the largest citys
in america. Ex super soilgers would provide labor to make the geo fronts more cost
effective.

During the 1990s the cold war ended but the political will to end the project
wonderland never materialised. The hemp industry and the effected cities refused to
let the program die. The cities because the project brouhgt engineers and esstentially
free subway systems and needed revenue, the hemp industry because of their
fears of government intervention, and thus the sprawling geo fronts continue to
grow larger and more complex with every decade.

I don't mean to be rude, but is nuke clear an anagram for something, why not just write nuclear? It took me awhile to figure out what the post was supposed to be, before I threw in my own interpretation.

My spelling kind of sucks and I didnt want to mispell nuclear
anyways project wonderland is just an excuse to have a underground villian
base or a under ground super hero base and have a rational reason why said
base of operations exists.

A cynical cold war fallout shelter program that operates as a government boon dogle maintained
by cities looking for easy revunue and a industry that doesnt want to be legislated out
of existance a second time provides said excuse.

[Rallan]

If you want to take the idea of how ruthless Russia, America and Germany were to another level, consider the use of entering immigrants from impoverished nations. Family members from latin America, Africa and Asia would have no way of knowing what happened to their relatives, and government officials could easily come up with half-baked excuses like "died of cholera" or "plane shot down over Venezuala". Some of these people would be very poor and would have no way of verifying if anything was true especially back in the 1950s or 1960s, until some of their relatives returned home...changed. And to avoid the hegemony that might entail, nations such as Brazil, India, China and Nigeria could also be involved in the "war race" that ensued.

Best not to overdo it though. Dirty secrets from the government's bad old days are good, and the occasional research program with unsavory origins is good. But if you do it all on a grand scale it'll sort of dominate the setting, and it's probably a bit early in the brainstorming process to start throwing around ideas that define the whole show.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

I like this!

[Juce734]

What is the status of this? Looks like it lost steam. I think I am going to flesh out a history starting in prehistoric times to the present. I am curious as to the exact location of where Century Station should be. I was thinking off the East Coast somewhere. What does everyone else think?

[Juce734]

What is the status of this? Looks like it lost steam. I think I am going to flesh out a history starting in prehistoric times to the present. I am curious as to the exact location of where Century Station should be. I was thinking off the East Coast somewhere. What does everyone else think?

Mine is off of Texas, but I heavily considered Maine or South Carolina. I ended up in Texas because the state could lose some territory and not be greatly effected, the weather is better IMO and I didn't want it anywhere near D.C.

That's why I don't want mine near D.C., or Parris Island. A lot of military presence and such.

[Juce734]

Ok so I want to know what periods in history do you think should have HU characters?

Ancient Greece had super powered characters that are now known as the Greek Gods.

Aliens built Stone Henge, Pyramids, and other things. (any ideas please mention them)

Salem witch trials did get rid of some super powered women. (magic is real in this world)

Native Americans had some special powered people in their tribes. They did their best to hide the fact from the settlers though.

Biblical events such as the talking burning bush, sea parting, water to wine, staff into a snake, David vs Goliath, Jesus (super powered), and many other things.

If you guys think of great moments in history that could be explained by any non-normal humans from the HU, AU, VU books PM the idea to me and I will try to type it into the UNOFFICIAL HU WORLD HISTORY I am working on. I will start a thread here on the boards when I have some work done on this project.

If you submit a specific event with NPC's please stat out the main NPC's and give that to me as well. Everyone will get their due credit in the final posted project.

[Steeler49er]

(NEVER GOOD TO TO BRING IN ESTABLISHED RELIGION)-You just end up insulting others while saying "they need to get over themselves" (which is ever more insulting). If you're gonna do that then, evey religion is open to such historical diversion...
Including Islam!
And I dare you to touch it. Go ahead, touch it.

Besides, the history of HU THAT far back in Should be the perview of GM's. This HU discussion should be about the more Recent world history and what exactly would have a major change to it brought...
That said, Aberrant Did have NOVA JESUS!!!
And he Rocked.

...............................................................The Butterfly Effect...........................................................
The Biggest pet peeve I have Ever had with Any RPG, Novel, TV show, Movie, Video Game, or Comic book has been their Utterly idiotic need to Somehow tell us that the present President of the United States of America, is the President of the US in Their particular fictions canon as well. Even though it utterly defies all logic.
To put it in context, it is fine to mess around with Real world history when it would NOT be a change that the history books would have ever been aware of (Super Jesus, or Abraham Lincon Secret Vampire Hunter for instance), but to make ANY changes to resent world HISTORY (Known history, as in Text book changes) Would not be able to be argued or finageled into the allowing of events like 9-11.
Just doesn't happen.

In Real REAL world physics, if some one Could go back in time (say, a week before you were conceived), for even but a second, the displaced energies and matter would have triggered the Butterfly Effect and your chances of ever having been conceived would have dropped quite a bit. Now make that a month, a year, a few years! By about the 3-4 month marker it would be Safe to so your chances of ever being born would have dropped to the merest of fractions.
The simple fact of it is that Just by walking around every day you are displacing tons of air/gas molecules which impact the flight paths of millions of bugs, who's lives secretly imact other critters lives and even your own. If while walking to work yesterday, you changed which direction you were preordained (by time) to go, you have impacted your Own daily thought patterns and how you will ultimatly deal with your fellow employes (assuming that your walk did Not cause other changes to those Other people that saw you walk a differant path, which it would). Even a subtle change in you would be picked up by fellow emplyes and would make subtle change to how They would talk. Like a Pandemic infection, you'd have contaminated all those around you, even if by just a little. That joke at the water cooler timing was just a little off today, and you Female boss heard it when you didn't want her to. Now you'll be taking a class on Sexually Appropriate discussions around the work office!
Or maybe you were 1 second faster in that joke and she Didn't hear it. Now you'll Not be going to that class after all and your job record will shine alittle better for it.
And the reason you took a differant rout that day was because a fly flew in your face that you swated away and it gave you time, a mere moment in time to pause and look around you, to look around and see that flower the fly landed on, that flower you staired at for one moment longer than the nothing of time you'd have given it had that fly Not buzzed you. So you decided to take the scenic rout.

And that fly only flew in your face because of an ever so smal amount of wind changed it's course by .00001 degrees. A puff of wind not even measureble by most standards, one that if if haden't happened, that fly would have Just missed you and you'd have Never felt the need to swat it away. And that puff... Can from that time traveler.

The fact is your mom drops an egg once a month, and that egg may Not be the same egg it should have been cuz someone went one month back in time. That was Your egg.
The Bigger fact is that you Daddy drops new sperm in the same day and that One sperm that was the Other half of you wasn't made today. Or if it was, your daddy was to busy during sex (do to reminesing about that fly he'd swated away today) to thrust Right, when he shoulda thrusted left. And that one sperm in a thousand+ missed it's chance to get in good with the egg that Could have been you!
And Change increases Change. The more of it there is, the bigger the effect (exponentialy so)...


Now imagine if you will, all of those Jews (or Austrians, Polish, Gypsie, gays, Christians, Freemasons, anarchists, and people of Other ethnic classes) that died in the concerntration camps and Further imagine what would happen if, thanks to some super human who saved 12 Jews in some cool act of 'Awesomeness', prevented them from dying that day. Now They go one to write books about their sufferings that never were ment to written, have children that were never ment to be born (who in turn had children who were never ment to be born as well), who started businesses and had jobs and had lives they never were ment to have...
Now imagine that, because of his Awesome actions in saving those 12 Jews from death, the concerntration camps head CO decided out of outrage to make an example of those still left in the camp and put one to death that was never ment to die.
Now the name of that man who was killed...
Viktor Emil Frankl! Founder of the Frankl Institute!
Or Roman Polanski! (Remember Sharon Tate? Think Charles Manson... Now remember who Charles was friends with...
The Beach Boys.)
Or Curt Lowens, Charlotte Delbo, Otto Heinrich "Pim" Frank, or Primo Levi....
How many people (Jew and Not) died in those camps? How many went on to live lives of importance?


That is the Butterfly Effect in action (and that was Less than .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of it's effect).
Now Imagine a WORLD filled for 8 decades with the Knowledge of and activities of Supers! Are you telling me that they'd have sooooo little impact that we'd Still get Regan, Bush, Clinton, Bush Jr, or Obama into office. NoFlippinWay.
This IS comics and IS the fantastical... But does that have to equal=Stupid like a child!

Bend the truth does Not mean throwingout All reason.
So Have your Nova Jesus and Abraham Lincon The Vampire Slayer, but for pity sake, let's Not have 9-11 Just because you can't let go of Present Real world events, or because you lack the creativity to be inventive.
________________________Osama Died at the hands of the Centurians in 1985_____________________________
There... He was a patriotic U.S. citizen operating a Frogert stand in down town Manhatten when the Sinister Seventeen attacked. The Ceturians Taveled back in time Just to get in a fight with them and land on Bin Laden.

Fiction is fine, ridiculous is not. Besides, if you change too much then you are giving HU a differant origon story that the rest of the PB mega-verse, and How can it be that Abraham Lincon Vampire Killer was human in one world, when in another he was a Nightlord, in another he was a time Traveling Veritech Piolot, in another he was a Super Human Immortal, In yet another he is a Cosmo-Knight, In another he was a Vampire (with great sun block), in another, in another, in another...
These worlds need to follow at least Some level of history, even if their recent histories at some point diverged.



FYI-The Salem Witch trialsOut of the Nineteen people that were hanged, the one person crushed to death, and the as many as thirteen people may have died in prison. Of those it was likely that 90% were Christians. Only a few (two though three) likely were real witches, and of those 'Witches' around 2 were doing much of the accusing.
As popular as it has been to over imbelish the Frack out of those trials Hundreds did not die... Allotta Christians who spoke out against it did though.

NOW if you want Real witch trials, you need to bring up the onse that were Not in Salem, but rather the ones that happened all over the place in locals like England. Many were likely cause by LSD (found in a growth on Rye, which was common to eat during certain periods). How many of Them that died could have had powers would be up in the air!
But as was best said about the Salem trails, "If I were to be a witch, would thou thinketht me to not use my powers to eascape this farce!?! The only ones who you would have suffer here would be us non-witches!"

[BillionSix]

[quote="Steeler49er"
...............................................................The Butterfly Effect...........................................................

snip

[/quote]

Interesting idea. I've heard similar ideas before. The problem is, if you posit that supers have been around since, say, the 30s or earlier, then nothing and no one around today would be here, and would be replaced by someone else. Barack Obama would not be president. There would be no Taylor Swift or Bill Gates, or MTV, and no you or me. The style of modern building design would be different, since it would have been made by different folks. Television and movies would be different.
If we follow your theory to the letter then we have to reinvent the world to the point where it is no longer recognizable. In which case, it's not standard supers anymore. "Standard" supers is basically, Our World, Plus Powers and Stuff.
I mean think about it, by this logic, the worlds of Nightbane and Beyond the Supernatural couldn't exist, either, since they both have a long history of supernatural activity.

Since time travel is only a theoretical idea anyway, let's go with another theoretical idea. Multiple universes. The Palladium Megaverse has them. So, if there are an infinite number of universes, then every possibility is out there. So, a universe where most of all of the people in our world exist, and in much the same job or social position, but also has people with super powers and high tech and aliens and stuff, not only is possible, but in an infinite Megaverse, inevitable.

On a somewhat related subject, let me mention an idea I had regarding multiple timelines.
Let's assume that we are at a point in time, and every decision made in that point in time splits into two or more alternate universes, wherein a different decision was made in each universes. This not only covers conscious decisions, but other, seemingly random things, like coin tosses and dice rolls. (Your hand moved a slightly different way, perhaps.)
Okay. this means that if you can travel or see into the future, you will get a probable or just possible future. This allows you to come back and change things, thus changing the "track" your universe takes.
This is nothing new, and has been mined by sci-fi and comic writers for a long time.
The next step is, of course, alternate presents. You know, like Sliders. If every decision makes a new universe, then past decisions will have made alternate present day universes, which can theoretically be visited.
Again, nothing new.
But if you take this to a new level. If, from this point in time, every conceivable future that could be extrapolated from this point in time exists somewhere, doesn't that work the other way? What if every conceivable past that could have created our universe is also out there, and possible. Going back in time a few hours would be pretty simple, since our memories and records make a solid "track" to follow, but past that, memory and history get much less reliable. The idea of the past becomes a little shaky.

"Ah, let's use your time machine to go to Shakespeare's time. I'd like to see if Shakespeare or Sir Francis Bacon wrote his plays."
"Sure, which one do you want to go to?"
"What?"
"Do you want to visit the past where Shakespeare wrote his own plays, or the one where Bacon wrote them?"

Either one could theoretically have helped create the world we live in at this point, and would therefore be out there. Each one would be just as real. Granted, some are much more likely than others, just as some alternate futures will be more likely.
It's not a comforting thought, granted. But when these thoughts occur to you, you have to share them.

Brian

[Steeler49er]

Interesting idea. I've heard similar ideas before. The problem is, if you posit that supers have been around since, say, the 30s or earlier, then nothing and no one around today would be here, and would be replaced by someone else. Barack Obama would not be president. There would be no Taylor Swift or Bill Gates, or MTV, and no you or me. The style of modern building design would be different, since it would have been made by different folks. Television and movies would be different.
If we follow your theory to the letter then we have to reinvent the world to the point where it is no longer recognizable. In which case, it's not standard supers anymore. "Standard" supers is basically, Our World, Plus Powers and Stuff.
I mean think about it, by this logic, the worlds of Nightbane and Beyond the Supernatural couldn't exist, either, since they both have a long history of supernatural activity.

Since time travel is only a theoretical idea anyway, let's go with another theoretical idea. Multiple universes.

Time travle IS pure theory (one that goes against All logic), I was simply using it as an 'examlpe' of the effects of 'altering' what was.I could have used Quantum theory for the same effect but, I realized people seem to grasp onto sci-fi better than hard science.

Actually, the butterfly effect isn't a theory (nor is it mine to begin with) it IS a fact of reality... For every action there is a reaction. And you hit the nail right on the head... Very little Should be the same as Our reality, since the 1930's and the first introduction of the supers, as nothing like that ever happened IN Our reality. Thus Our world developes one way and There's would go there way.
So yes, what I said (and you agreed about) stands, Just not the part about BtSN or Nightspawn is what I am saying...

See as far as fictionalizing the real world goes, what affects people is the Knowledge of about a thing and not so much the thing. Science Fiction is Science, but it is also still fiction and it is based around 'What you can logically get away with"... That is why the SyFy-llis Channel (aka Oxygen for geeks) and it's shows aren't being called "Sci-Fi" any more, cuz they're Not. the Syfyllis channels sci-fi is pure garbage and is hard to watch, even with Massive suspension of disbelief.

Their "science" is just soooo Not that it killed the dumb channel.
Same with Sliders, which although I Loved all the actors (sept the loud mouthed girl who played Wade) and I loved the Heck out of the shows Concept, everytime I think of oevr the top breaking of the rules of the Buttereffect, I tend to think of sliders. Sliders would have One world were all women grow mustatches and there was a car accident as they were leaving, only to go to another "Parallel" earth where ALL of the same exact people are in the Same exact places on the street and that Same exact car wreak is unfolding, But the women Don't have mustatches instead the men all wear kilts!

No THAT breaks all reason, logic, common sence and makes 'Suspension of Disbelief' impossible. To say that it is "Just a show, don't read to much into it", "take it serious", or what have you is just bad science. It is excussing poor writting as saying "HEY... I'm Sooo desparte for some Nerd-dom in my life that, I'll take Anything that is dished out to me".

Nightspawn and BtSN are two examples of HOW TO DO IT RIGHT. As is White Wolfs "Aberrant Trinity". All three games did things so far behind the scenes that, one Could in fact argue that Their worlds 'Could' have developed the exact same way as ours did. Both BtSN and Nightspawn are from the same megaverse and could therefore argue that they have the same history up untill 1995, when Nightspawn diverged. BtSN could easily be 'A' past of Rifts Earth, in that will develope differantly with time.

The earth of Aberrant trinity Like wise had their worlds history removed via a combination of the dissapearance of the Noteic Event, the activities of psions psychic powers, and ÆONs 50 years of interferance with history books and deleting of newsclippings from that time. IN time however, people started to remember that "Super Events" happened in the past (Aberrant Expose') and realized that they had a hard time remembering.

Thus PB's examples of Nightspawn and BtSN, as well as Aberrant Trinity's example of Aberrant (and WoD for that matter) allow for the same past events to form a near duplicate history from our own by arguing that "Hey, It could have happend this way"... The fact is that those differances Could be argued to be Our world to a point, simply cuz we never knew it was happening so we never reacted to them.

Heroes Unlimited has only loosely based it's last 80 years off of our worlds real world events and could easily claim some of those similarities as well, but YES... At some point it should be stated that 'Having superhumans, aliens, mutants, extra dimensional creatures, magics, psychis, chi master martial artists, and talking animals' Should cause some "Reasonable" Major changes to how HU turns out.

It means that Very few thing would remain the same. There is NO WAY that people are walking around with iPod touches while driving around in This worlds 2010 model Lexus and listening to KOЯN... And No Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama!
Reagan, sure, maybe, but that is Only because you May choose in Your game that supers Only just showed in in the 80's, but NOT in HU...
Bush sr may have just as likely been the presedent instead of Reagan, Or Just as likely neither since the Visable changes started in the 30's.


_____________________________THE ROLLING STONE THEOREM___________________________________
So How Can you (in fact) give two worlds a "similar to our world" look while still giving them slightly differing pasts after all you ask???
Simplest way is to argue that an ALL POWERFUL BEING is in control over All reality and has choosen to get overly (Needlessly) involved in All EARTH dimensions developements so that they look nearly the same, despite what Should happen... This All powerful beings name is LAZINESS, the GM.

I did it, but then I did a remarkible job over 15 years of explaining "Why" it was that way... And peeps loved it cuz it Still obeyed the rules of logic. The Other way is simply to use the ROLLING STONE METHOD, in which you state that 'Certain People' inthe wordl that have existed for hundreds of years (at least) have been pulling the threads of human developement for their own reasons. These "Social Arctitects" (Puppet Masters) can have Any reasons you'd like but, in the end they have been trying to force humanities hands in one specific reason and, like a Rolling Stone, whenever humanity strays from it's given path, They "Redirect them back to it". In this way you could argue that Certain major movers and shakers (Like The bushes, Clintons, Kennedys, Bin Ladin, and Obama) have all been puppets molded all their lives to fulfill those goals. Everytime someone would have voted them out, or chosen someone the "Puppet masters" didn't like, those Masters used their power to Get those guys elected...

That is very logical...

The THIRD WAY is to say that, even though the recent past has seen Major changes to it, it is following so closely to OUR EARTHS TEMPORAL TEMPLATE that, it itself is attempting to correct the timeline and so Many people are being born who (according to physics) it is impossible to have be born.

All three can work but... At SOME POINT, it just becomes too much and those time lines WILL diverge beyond similarity and recognition. The Thing with Sliders Simply couldn't happen. HU Must, at this point, have a major historical shift in order to Not be overly campy. And it should have happened after around the 80's.

[Kovoston]

(NEVER GOOD TO TO BRING IN ESTABLISHED RELIGION)-You just end up insulting others while saying "they need to get over themselves" (which is ever more insulting). If you're gonna do that then, evey religion is open to such historical diversion...
Including Islam!
And I dare you to touch it. Go ahead, touch it.

Besides, the history of HU THAT far back in Should be the perview of GM's. This HU discussion should be about the more Recent world history and what exactly would have a major change to it brought...
That said, Aberrant Did have NOVA JESUS!!!
And he Rocked.

...............................................................The Butterfly Effect...........................................................
The Biggest pet peeve I have Ever had with Any RPG, Novel, TV show, Movie, Video Game, or Comic book has been their Utterly idiotic need to Somehow tell us that the present President of the United States of America, is the President of the US in Their particular fictions canon as well. Even though it utterly defies all logic.
To put it in context, it is fine to mess around with Real world history when it would NOT be a change that the history books would have ever been aware of (Super Jesus, or Abraham Lincon Secret Vampire Hunter for instance), but to make ANY changes to resent world HISTORY (Known history, as in Text book changes) Would not be able to be argued or finageled into the allowing of events like 9-11.
Just doesn't happen.

In Real REAL world physics, if some one Could go back in time (say, a week before you were conceived), for even but a second, the displaced energies and matter would have triggered the Butterfly Effect and your chances of ever having been conceived would have dropped quite a bit. Now make that a month, a year, a few years! By about the 3-4 month marker it would be Safe to so your chances of ever being born would have dropped to the merest of fractions.
The simple fact of it is that Just by walking around every day you are displacing tons of air/gas molecules which impact the flight paths of millions of bugs, who's lives secretly imact other critters lives and even your own. If while walking to work yesterday, you changed which direction you were preordained (by time) to go, you have impacted your Own daily thought patterns and how you will ultimatly deal with your fellow employes (assuming that your walk did Not cause other changes to those Other people that saw you walk a differant path, which it would). Even a subtle change in you would be picked up by fellow emplyes and would make subtle change to how They would talk. Like a Pandemic infection, you'd have contaminated all those around you, even if by just a little. That joke at the water cooler timing was just a little off today, and you Female boss heard it when you didn't want her to. Now you'll be taking a class on Sexually Appropriate discussions around the work office!
Or maybe you were 1 second faster in that joke and she Didn't hear it. Now you'll Not be going to that class after all and your job record will shine alittle better for it.
And the reason you took a differant rout that day was because a fly flew in your face that you swated away and it gave you time, a mere moment in time to pause and look around you, to look around and see that flower the fly landed on, that flower you staired at for one moment longer than the nothing of time you'd have given it had that fly Not buzzed you. So you decided to take the scenic rout.

And that fly only flew in your face because of an ever so smal amount of wind changed it's course by .00001 degrees. A puff of wind not even measureble by most standards, one that if if haden't happened, that fly would have Just missed you and you'd have Never felt the need to swat it away. And that puff... Can from that time traveler.

The fact is your mom drops an egg once a month, and that egg may Not be the same egg it should have been cuz someone went one month back in time. That was Your egg.
The Bigger fact is that you Daddy drops new sperm in the same day and that One sperm that was the Other half of you wasn't made today. Or if it was, your daddy was to busy during sex (do to reminesing about that fly he'd swated away today) to thrust Right, when he shoulda thrusted left. And that one sperm in a thousand+ missed it's chance to get in good with the egg that Could have been you!
And Change increases Change. The more of it there is, the bigger the effect (exponentialy so)...


Now imagine if you will, all of those Jews (or Austrians, Polish, Gypsie, gays, Christians, Freemasons, anarchists, and people of Other ethnic classes) that died in the concerntration camps and Further imagine what would happen if, thanks to some super human who saved 12 Jews in some cool act of 'Awesomeness', prevented them from dying that day. Now They go one to write books about their sufferings that never were ment to written, have children that were never ment to be born (who in turn had children who were never ment to be born as well), who started businesses and had jobs and had lives they never were ment to have...
Now imagine that, because of his Awesome actions in saving those 12 Jews from death, the concerntration camps head CO decided out of outrage to make an example of those still left in the camp and put one to death that was never ment to die.
Now the name of that man who was killed...
Viktor Emil Frankl! Founder of the Frankl Institute!
Or Roman Polanski! (Remember Sharon Tate? Think Charles Manson... Now remember who Charles was friends with...
The Beach Boys.)
Or Curt Lowens, Charlotte Delbo, Otto Heinrich "Pim" Frank, or Primo Levi....
How many people (Jew and Not) died in those camps? How many went on to live lives of importance?


That is the Butterfly Effect in action (and that was Less than .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of it's effect).
Now Imagine a WORLD filled for 8 decades with the Knowledge of and activities of Supers! Are you telling me that they'd have sooooo little impact that we'd Still get Regan, Bush, Clinton, Bush Jr, or Obama into office. NoFlippinWay.
This IS comics and IS the fantastical... But does that have to equal=Stupid like a child!

Bend the truth does Not mean throwingout All reason.
So Have your Nova Jesus and Abraham Lincon The Vampire Slayer, but for pity sake, let's Not have 9-11 Just because you can't let go of Present Real world events, or because you lack the creativity to be inventive.
________________________Osama Died at the hands of the Centurians in 1985_____________________________
There... He was a patriotic U.S. citizen operating a Frogert stand in down town Manhatten when the Sinister Seventeen attacked. The Ceturians Taveled back in time Just to get in a fight with them and land on Bin Laden.

Fiction is fine, ridiculous is not. Besides, if you change too much then you are giving HU a differant origon story that the rest of the PB mega-verse, and How can it be that Abraham Lincon Vampire Killer was human in one world, when in another he was a Nightlord, in another he was a time Traveling Veritech Piolot, in another he was a Super Human Immortal, In yet another he is a Cosmo-Knight, In another he was a Vampire (with great sun block), in another, in another, in another...
These worlds need to follow at least Some level of history, even if their recent histories at some point diverged.



FYI-The Salem Witch trialsOut of the Nineteen people that were hanged, the one person crushed to death, and the as many as thirteen people may have died in prison. Of those it was likely that 90% were Christians. Only a few (two though three) likely were real witches, and of those 'Witches' around 2 were doing much of the accusing.
As popular as it has been to over imbelish the Frack out of those trials Hundreds did not die... Allotta Christians who spoke out against it did though.

NOW if you want Real witch trials, you need to bring up the onse that were Not in Salem, but rather the ones that happened all over the place in locals like England. Many were likely cause by LSD (found in a growth on Rye, which was common to eat during certain periods). How many of Them that died could have had powers would be up in the air!
But as was best said about the Salem trails, "If I were to be a witch, would thou thinketht me to not use my powers to eascape this farce!?! The only ones who you would have suffer here would be us non-witches!"

The possibility of Time being so malleable or so ridged depends on the Dimensional/Causality Laws of that particular dimension (Chaos or no...). If time is really resilient then such a Butterfly Effect may not occur. But this is Theory... Super Heroes may try to blast a large crater in the Earth and change everything but if they shoot Lincoln then possibly someone else who is similar may take his place.

[Steeler49er]

Pretty much yup...

My point however (time travel aside as, I was only using that as an example) the Butterfly Effect Need to be somehow bypassed since it can't be outright broken. The above examples are just some ideas but, if it is not adressed "WHY" two differant world have the Exact same Visible historic past upto a point when it makes no logical sence that they should, you just end up with 'bad fiction'.

This wouldn't be an issue if those worlds were reality from the One world was somehow impeading on the reality of the other (Example would be a world like ours Psychically influncing HU's and enforcing some of Our reality on them... But that would again Have to be adress first. As it is, PB started out differant from all other companies when Rifts came out, by trying to say that All of their game worlds shaired the same histories upto some point And Then they diverged (sometimes greatly). This was good since it simply Dealt with the issue of 'susspencion of disbelief" by go around it and thus, kept PB the most Sci-Fi of the RPG game companies.

But as players came in from other games (one in which they had to constantly Throw-out their dislike of Bad writting and be forced to swallow it) they never realized that the innate awesomeness of PB was that they could give Logic to the seemingly Illogical natures of Fiction. That way EVERYONE could have fun... Those who Like the Sci- in Sci-fi and those who liked the Fi- in it.
If every game has to suspend SO MUCH reason to work then so that haters of Sci- can get what they want, then where do the rest us who actually Like that Sci- get to go for our games.
That becomes an Elitist sect that are into fantasy and the rest of us are left out in the cold, only to slowly come to Dislike geekdom. Over the years the Anti-Logic movement has grown to rediculous numbers in this country. Games that were, or could be about teaching have now degraded into mindless mush!

It is Very important to us Sci-fans (Nerds) that we keep the more Creative members of the Fiction community with us since we have seen that 'wah-happens' Happens when we try to have it Our way. We end up with Ultra stiff bland games that are sterile and devoid of fun... So we want there to be balance to the spectrum (like Reps vs. Dems). But if Guys and Gals who are Fi-Fans (Geeks) always get their way, those games will devolve into mindless tripe. Problem is, the Dems (Fi-lovers) don't care. It feelss too good right now to stop. That future seen by Reps (Sci-lovers) is a not seen danger, shrugged off as being crazy talk.

[Juce734]

So you would want only a more modern history then? Or a completely fictional one? Am I reading that right?

[Kovoston]

Hmmm,

I guess the best thing you could do is just ask the players what they want to do and if they want surprises and really wild things in the game, then go for it! If they are having a hard time with a world that, say has Jimi Hendrix as the president, or Elvis on Mount Rushmore then probably you'd better stick to just the factual science and leave the really wild things to the villain (and make him memorably evil)!

Players can be really resilient to changes in a game and they may not even mind the change as long as it happens in the true context of the plot (i.e.: the villain bombs the White House or Parliament etc.).

[Juce734]

So you would want only a more modern history then? Or a completely fictional one? Am I reading that right?

Here is what you do Juce. Make your history with anyone whom wants to contribute. Post it as Unofficial, and those whom want to use it will and those whom don't...wont. If it makes you happy to create it then just go for it. There will always be poeple whom wont like it or just cant see themselves using it for one reason or another. Who cares. There will also be enough people who scream; "THIS IS AWSOME! YOU ROCK JUCE734."

That is true. I will continue working on it. Some good people have offered some good ideas on here which has made the idea of this even more fun.

[Steeler49er]

So you would want only a more modern history then? Or a completely fictional one? Am I reading that right?

To a point Yes, that way it Still leaves plenty of Crowdsourcing breathing room for developement reasons. Anyone can 'just strip' stuff right out of todays news paper and say "That is what happened, but with superheroes"... Which is fine, But also Very campy.

I say we Pick a date sometime back a few decades ago, back when the Net, TV, & history books Couldn't pick up on everything and right on the cuff of when they were about to (Late 30's to mid 40's) and then move on from there.
►Yes in 1939 The Soviet Union invades Finland and starts the Russo-Finish War...
►Yes on June 22 1941 Operation Barbarossa (the invasion of Russia) takes place...
►Yes on Dec 8th 1941 Japanese attack Wake island.
BUT, as time goes one the Secret history of the world takes place and Slowly drives the Earth of H.U. further and further away from the realities of "Other PB earth dimensions (further and further from Our Real world Timesline)...
For some Unknown reasons (Cosmic Forge in my games) the HU World Timeline continues to Unnaturally "SNAP" back towards a more Our Earth like time line, despite the continued and ever increasing inclusion of super humans.

This is driven in part by the (Truefully existent) machinations of an ages old orginization of world wide social engineers ["Puppet Masters"] who have had Many world events so well plotted and planned out, for the ultimate purpasses of creating their age old dream of a New World Order (from which they intended to rule), that they keep attempting to "BUMP" that global plan back into place... BUT as time has moved on and the Oddness of the "Superhuman Phenom" has continued out of control, That plan has become ever increasingly distant and That (By the late 80's, earily 90's) intentioned timeline ultimately becomes impossible...
As was intended anywho.

That same group had intended to bring about a Utopia in which the Little people (us) existed in an assumed Perfectly regimented socialist society, while they would be the "Undeposable" facistic leaders of their individual countries, all ruled over by a god-like puppet king.
As the 20th century rolls on though, an Unnaturally large wave of Superhuman energy will surge across the surface of the world where Normal Man (and woman) start to show ever evolving signs of power. This started off as the Pulp Fiction heroic era and was Easily squeltched at first by the Puppet Masters. Anything born that was "Not quite Human" (Mutants) was seen as a potential threat to the Masters plans (controlled/directable racism like with whites & black is easy to deal with... But mutants are ALL differant), or the existance of Extr-Dimensional and Terrestrial, would be covered up, used and destroyed.
News papers would print retraction, new channels would (after airing "Unwanted news") simply continue with the news broad cast and a variant recap of the "Original" story... That way the majority of people would think "Hey, maybe I just heard things wrong, best to move on"...
Those who Didn't would, in time, come to Labled as "Conspiracy theorists" and Nut jobs!
Those are dambing words to call humans (even when Blatantely untrue) as humans are social creatures and as such, being called those trems is a Reputation death sentance. You're an Insta pariah, anathema and no longer someone Other people would wish to be associated with, even if they secretly agreed with you. THAT is the power of the Need to fit in. In OUR REAL WORLD, that is a potent way to control the people, with fear of total and complete ostracization. Only crazy people would never see the need to be ONE with those around them, after all we humans Need each other to survive... well don't we?
And by the time Humans started flying in droves (around the 1950's) that time honored method of subtle mind control all started to fall apart. After all, how can you say "There is no such thing as Aliens! That is all crazy talk spouted by tinfoil hat
wearing scittzos", when a Giant UFO is hovering Over the Whitehouse Lawn???

So Yes WWII happens, Yes Korean War & Nam, Yes to The Beetles and the Brittish Invasion, yes to the 'Free Love' era, and Yes to many things, but as the 20th century was nearing it's closure, the Puppet Masters could no-longer maintain the level of control they'd had decades prior. One or two superhumans could be whiped from the Human conscience over time, but not 10, then 100, then 1,000, then Ten thousand, One hundred Thousand, and then a million!!!

Something, an event sparked an overwhelming amount of Whatever type of energy it was that caused superpowers to develope and with the ever increasing number of super powered beings jumping forwards into the spot-light, it enacted a similarly responding growth in the number of OTHER classes of super humans.
The Puppet Masters had even had plans (as far back as the 1940's) to use every technique' they'd had at their disposial, to remove the existance of Century Station from the hearts and minds of the people... And they would have gotten away with it if not for the furthing emergance of supers. See, there is something About Century Station that they never wanted out and they'd intended to make us alll forget that it had ever existed at all. In time Not one human living on earth would have remembered he cities existance.
A machine, a spell, mass psychic powers, control over the media, all would be employed to help erradicate that Blasted cities existance from the hearts and minds of man... But alas... Heroes stopped them just before they could complete their plans!
Further proof of what those who shall be called 'THEY' feared most. That Supers were just Too unpredictable. But by the mid 40's it was just too hard to kill That many budding supers. Control was becoming the main method of dealing with them. Control and hope! Hope that whatever was causing this would soon end, but it only increased.



NIGHTSPAWN, BtSN, SYSTEM SHOCK, ROBOTECH, N&SS, DEAD REIGN, ADVACED RECON...
And many other worlds would succomb to the plots and plans of those same Puppet Masters, except that is untill the day some of those worlds Too got their own wake up calls and were delivered from the clutches of Mad Men... Only to be delivered in some cases, into the waiting arms of Other much more evil hands!

Magic exists, Psychics exist, the Supernatural exists, Mutants and superhumans exist, aliens extra-dimensions beings exist, why even Angles & Demons exist... And they can all be hidden and destroyed, but not when cosmic fate determines that one of those worlds needs a wake up call... For NO force or group of being on earth has a Worse destination (unknowingly) instore for the universe than those same Puppet Masters.
So in a way, the humans of Nightspawn/bane earth or Rifts earth, and even System Shock and Dead reign are ALL very lucky, as the (never to be known) alternative was far far worse.


NOW WHAT???
Well, as of the late 1980's and eairly 1990's all of those people the World Movers [Puppet masters] had grown and cultivated where no more. Those that were to be were never born and those that were part of their plans had aged long past their expiration dates. By the fall of the Berlin wall and the end of that eras presedent, nothing was the same. Sure GM Motors HAD existed, and the Internet was in full swing but, one of those thing was part of the past and had already been replaced and the other was simply the Enevitable conclusion to the ever advacing nature of comunications technology.
MP3's never existed, by something, a program very similar Would be developedbut, it wouldn't be called MP3 (MPEG-2 Audio Layer 3). The names of and faces of things have changed but, allot of things stayed the same till the 90's. Century Station and the inevitable existance of Advanced alien & superhuman techs have changed All of that and the Puppet Masters 9try as they did) could simply Not stop it.

By the 2000's man was in space, on the Moon, on Mars, and certain government groups had gone even further into Outter and innerspace and all other spaces inbetween. Computers began to use standards of tech Beyond even that of the (by then simplistic) Quantum Computer. Photon Light based computers are nearing the market and by 2012 they'll be there... And That again wil cause yet Another paradigm shift!


See, you CAN make Illogical things logical again and, the above example is just one way it can be done...
More over the above example is just One of many ways that Every little thing can be explained, give you a base starting point and some solid background to work with, all while making it so that ALL PB game books can Still logically inter-act w/o coming off as being the perview of Pure Geekdom!...


It Can be done and IT MUST BE DONE for everone to feel that this game is for them.
Give the Game a Mtea-plot to get some comon ground for all of us, then Kill the Meta plot before it Ruins the game... (Something White Wolf Never figured out and is one reason why they're going under).

[LeeNapier]

...IT MUST BE DONE for everone to feel that this game is for them.

This is a matter of opinion, with which I disagree.

[Steeler49er]

To which it Then becomes one sided and only that side gets what they want... Leaving (again) everyone 'else' to feel that they should walk away from the non-inclusive nature of the game.

After all, why should said group always be told by said Other group to "Bugger off" or "Suck it up and just enjoy it for what We like about it" like as though it is a game of Gun-Boat Diplomacy, when said group (my people) should just get up and walk out of the room?
Onesided to a fault!


So you excuse me if I [vainly] hope that your side never gets published, thus becoming cannon and thus causing My kind to get up and walk away from HU, just like how we finally got up and walk away from Rifts.

[LeeNapier]

Dude, you can't say something must be done for "everyone" to feel the game is for them, if not everyone (like me, for example) feels that way.

Nothing is for everyone.

[Juce734]

To which it Then becomes one sided and only that side gets what they want... Leaving (again) everyone 'else' to feel that they should walk away from the non-inclusive nature of the game.

After all, why should said group always be told by said Other group to "Bugger off" or "Suck it up and just enjoy it for what We like about it" like as though it is a game of Gun-Boat Diplomacy, when said group (my people) should just get up and walk out of the room?
Onesided to a fault!


So you excuse me if I [vainly] hope that your side never gets published, thus becoming cannon and thus causing My kind to get up and walk away from HU, just like how we finally got up and walk away from Rifts.

Century Station was published and not everyone includes its existence in their games. It's no reason to walk away from the game. Same with any NPC's and such.

I am one of the people who like the addition of a place like Century Station, Gramercy Island, and such. To me it would be cool to have a history to go off of and I know most people won't picture the same history that I would. You can use whatever game world you want and that is the beauty of RPGs.