Question on Vampires-

[KillWatch]

Where are they statted in PF? ARE they statted in PF? Vampire Intelligences?

[Shawn Merrow]

They are in Western Empire.

[KillWatch]

Thank you ever so much, you are gracious

[Shawn Merrow]

Your welcome. Forgot to mention it does have V.I. but also gods and the Old Ones can make Vampires in the Fantasy setting.

[The Dark Elf]

I believe they forget all that and begin anew.

[KillWatch]

I don't know if they forgets so much as they are recast with the itelligences own abilities, finding or assuming that anything the mortal knew before hand was insufficient and not worthy of keeping

[lather]

1E vampires are in the main book and have very little detail. With 2E I can just hear Gersidi asking "what do you think of me now?"

[bigwhitehound]

The vampires of all palladium books need a rewrite. Both for MDC and SDC worlds.

[Eryk Stormbright]

The vampires of all palladium books need a rewrite. Both for MDC and SDC worlds.

*nods*yeah i doubt that will happen.. but i agree with you. i've never cared much for the way the vamps are done in the Palladium system.

[Reagren Wright]

New vampire books are coming soon with updated Vampire Kingdoms and the new Vampire
Source Book. Maybe there will be some improvements. Of course, that means buying a Rifts
book and doing a SDC conversion, however they've been doing a good job doing conversions
in all the books.

[KillWatch]

ok so what rule do you use for converting Vamps to SDC? 1:100 as is the normal understanding or some other method

[Killer Cyborg]

The vampires of all palladium books need a rewrite. Both for MDC and SDC worlds.

*nods*yeah i doubt that will happen.. but i agree with you. i've never cared much for the way the vamps are done in the Palladium system.

You not caring for it doesn't mean that it needs a rewrite.
Lots of people like the Palladium vampires just fine, and I find them a refreshing change from all the Ann Rice inspired crap that's become the standard.

[Shawn Merrow]

You not caring for it doesn't mean that it needs a rewrite.
Lots of people like the Palladium vampires just fine, and I find them a refreshing change from all the Ann Rice inspired crap that's become the standard.

Agree, prefer the Palladium Vampires over any Emo Romantic version. They prey on sentient species, there should be nothing romantic about that!

[Eryk Stormbright]

i agree the new Emo sparkly vamps suck @$$. the vamps in the Palladium systems are very unique and have merits for what they are. i guess i've just always liked the way White Wolf did their vamps in V:TM.

[Killer Cyborg]

i agree the new Emo sparkly vamps suck @$$. the vamps in the Palladium systems are very unique and have merits for what they are. i guess i've just always liked the way White Wolf did their vamps in V:TM.

White Wolf vamps are fine... in White Wolf games.

[KillWatch]

1) Palladium vamps have only one thing that is "unique". It is that they originate from an alien intelligence. But this foiled by the SDC palladium settings as apparently in PF it only goes up to Master Vampire. Originality is further compromised by saying that they can turn to wolves or bats, things which would have no consequence for an alien intelligence that spans the megaverse. So instead of choosing something original for itself to allow its minions to turn into, they pass over hellhounds, kreegor hounds, or any of the other beasts of the megaverse, that can run or fly. And why not just change the original body by giving it wings or simply being able to increase speed. No, they pick the dog ancestor and a mammalian flier, which are supersitiously "creepy" or "dangerous"

2) WW Vamps are awesome. WW did some quality work there. I could see a cain type character as an inteligence

3) Vampires don't sparkle, those aren't vampires. And I hate that nobody picks up on the pedophilia in twilight

[bigwhitehound]

Changes to Vampires

I never liked the palladium style vampires. They are too powerful, don’t really fit with the “history and myth” of vampires and with their power they could have easily taken over the southern US, so I created the following changes for vampires. Don’t worry there is NO romance in these blood suckers. Unless stated below use the book stats for vampires.

My gaming group has used these rules, with a few changes, for almost 10 years with few problems. We hope you enjoy them.

To kill a vampire permanently:

• Cut of its head, no head and it’s dead permanently
• Sunlight, same as in the book
• Fire, SDC fire does normal damage to a vampire, MD fire does double damage, magic and psychic fire do triple damage to a vampire. To destroy a vampire with fire it must be reduced to -50% of its hit points, or it will regenerate, fire damage always leaves scars on a vampire, half as severe if a human was burned.
• Wood, weapons made of wood do double damage to vampires, a wooden stake in the heart will instantly paralyze a vampire and kill it if the stake is not removed in 15 seconds/1 melee, as the vampire is paralyzed by the stake they can’t remove it. Otherwise same as in the book
• Silver, does full damage to a vampire, lodging silver in a vampires heart (ie. a silver hollow point bullet) will instantly paralyze it and kill it if the silver is not removed in 15 seconds/1 melee, as the vampire is paralyzed by the silver they can’t remove it. Otherwise same as in the book
• Magic and Psychic powers, same as in the book


Useless stuff:
• Water including “holly” water no effect whatsoever
• The cross and other religious/holly symbols are useless against a vampire. Vampires have existed since before religion. However, the magic amulet of turn the Undead will work due to it being magic.
• Soil of the homeland, vampire are creatures of (twisted) nature, and therefore can sleep wherever they want, so long as it’s out of the sunlight


Thing to drop: Vampire Intelligences DO NOT EXIST period. Vampires exist as a twisted version of life like a disease, cancer for example.

Creating a vampire:
Different types of vampires make well different types of vampires. First and most importantly a vampire must want to create another vampire, no accidents. Also a vampire can only “turn” members of its original race. Meaning Humans can only turn other Humans, Elves other Elves. Supernatural Beings of any type cannot be turned into a vampire, including Mutants with SN strength and-or over 500 MDC/1000 SDC. Vampires can feed on any living being they want to, provided it has blood.
Master Vampires are created by other Masters. To become a Master Vampire a person MUST want to become a vampire. The Masters success rate at creating another Master Vampire is 95%, a failed roll means a Secondary vampire has been created. Obviously a Master Vampire can turn the unwilling, however the result is always a Secondary Vampire.
Secondary Vampires are less successfully at creating other vampires. First a Secondary vampire can only create Secondary, Wampyr and Wild vampires. Success rate is 01-80% Secondary vampire, 81-99% Wild vampire, 00% Wampyr. Wild Vampires are usually (90%) killed on the spot or (10%) forced away from the “hunting ground” of the local vampires, less they attract unwanted attention. Wampyr are Super rare. When one is created it will be enslaved, by force, studied/tortured and eventually killed. The lucky and smart Wampyr will run as far away from its creator and other vampires as fast as possible.
Wild and Wampyr Vampires cannot create other vampires. The Wild ones lack the self-control and Wampyrs lack the necessary amount of vampire “essence” to create other vampires.

[The Beast]

The next time I plan to use vampires I'm combining the VK vamps with the ones from Rifter 49.

[sHaka]

ok so what rule do you use for converting Vamps to SDC? 1:100 as is the normal understanding or some other method

From MDC? I didn't think there were any MDC vampires - they're SDC beings that are invulnerable to conventional weapons (MDC or otherwise).

[KillWatch]

Shaka:
They do MDC Damage
and now I thank you for hating them even more. You are right they are not MDC. But apparently no hth attacks will work on them unless its wood or silver etc. I found no notation for supernatural creatures being able to damage them. That means two vampires who hate each other will not be able to kill much less hurt each other.

[JuliusCreed]

Shaka:
They do MDC Damage
and now I thank you for hating them even more. You are right they are not MDC. But apparently no hth attacks will work on them unless its wood or silver etc. I found no notation for supernatural creatures being able to damage them. That means two vampires who hate each other will not be able to kill much less hurt each other.

Not unless they're armed with wood or silver.

[drewkitty ~..~]

ok so what rule do you use for converting Vamps to SDC? 1:100 as is the normal understanding or some other method

From MDC? I didn't think there were any MDC vampires - they're SDC beings that are invulnerable to conventional weapons (MDC or otherwise).

Vamps are HP creatures and do not have SDC. Thus do not convert.

Shaka:
They do MDC Damage
and now I thank you for hating them even more. You are right they are not MDC. But apparently no hth attacks will work on them unless its wood or silver etc. I found no notation for supernatural creatures being able to damage them. That means two vampires who hate each other will not be able to kill much less hurt each other.

KW, They do MD a.k.a. Megadamage. I think you have heard of it. It is the type of damage that is done to MDC stuff.
Don't rightly know if it is because they have SNPS or 'just because'. (and it is late so I don't want to look it up right now.)

Dragons can damage vamps.
I don't know if it is due to their SNPS or their magical nature. The text does not expound on the why.
Note: vamps and were-people can hurt each other, even though they both have (most of) the same immunities.

[KillWatch]

Drewkitty:
Don't get me started on MDC
but according to VK, no they can't. I thought they could. I thought any supernatural creature could, but the reading says that only wood water sunlight and silver can actually hurt them. Which would make sense, seeing as how if anything MD COULD hurt them they would die in a single swipe, since they are HP creatures.

[sHaka]

Sorry KillWatch, I didn't realise it was the damage conversion you were after - could you use the supernatural PS chart from PFRPG2?

[The Beast]

Shaka:
They do MDC Damage
and now I thank you for hating them even more. You are right they are not MDC. But apparently no hth attacks will work on them unless its wood or silver etc. I found no notation for supernatural creatures being able to damage them. That means two vampires who hate each other will not be able to kill much less hurt each other.

Vampire can hurt each other, it's found under the Combat Damage bullet for each vampire type in VK. Dragons are specifically noted for being able to hurt vampires because they are "supernatural creatures and creatures of magic." Dragons can cause damage to a vampire through magic or a punch. Also according to VK other creature of magic are generally considered to be natural enemies of vampires. Yet no mention if other creatures of magic or supernatural beings can actually harm vampires. (I'd say yes for all creatures of magic, and yes only on the more powerful supernatural creatures.)

Also, from what others here have told me, VK was released before SNPS was able to cause MD. I'd just go with those damages when using vampires if it's not already listed in Western Empire.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Drewkitty:
Don't get me started on MDC
but according to VK, no they can't. I thought they could. I thought any supernatural creature could, but the reading says that only wood water sunlight and silver can actually hurt them. Which would make sense, seeing as how if anything MD COULD hurt them they would die in a single swipe, since they are HP creatures.

I wasn't talking about MDC, I was talking about MD and you're not using MD to mean MD.

Finish the sentence please. As it stands it looks like you are referencing something but you are not specific enough for this type of conversation. [This is not a verbal conversation where you can butt in right away to make you comment, so you need to "Not use Pronouns when commenting on a post where they are several 'They"s in the post being responded to.] Who are "They"? What can't 'they' "Do"?
[I talked about Vamps, dragons and were-people in my post. So which ones are you saying can't do what?]

Even those MD weapons that do fire stuff that hurts Vamps only do their rated MD in HP damage.

About dragons hurting Vamps is found in VK.
About Were-People hurting vamps is in the were-people text.
About Vamps doing MD, not sure about that cause I don't rightly remember if they have SNPS or not.

[KillWatch]

Shaka:
No. I was looking for both, but I forgot they didn't have SDC, just HP. I will look at using the table

Beast:
Well I didn't see it in the PF2, so apparently they can't in SDC worlds, since this is the only listing for SDC.
In VK a master vampire will have at most 180 HP, or almost 2 MD. But the fact that their own attacks don't do normal damage but much less like a regular punch doing 1d4+PS. Which ends up complicating everything. Because now we need to know if they do full damage, or if they to are altered. If they are not altered sn creatures are able to take out serious vamps in a single hit.

Drewkitty:
My statement is in direct response to your's, and so it should be read as such. or do you mean like this?
KW, They do MD a.k.a. Megadamage. I think you have heard of it. It is the type of damage that is done to MDC stuff.
Don't rightly know if it is because they have SNPS or 'just because'. (and it is late so I don't want to look it up right now.)

wouldn't it have been easier to scale the damage capacity of the vampires up instead limiting everyone else and raising these annoying questions. But the description of dragons is contradictory, but it does say that BECAUSE dragons are supernatural and creatures of magic that they can hurt vamps. but they pretty much stop there and don't bother giving us the rest of the megaversal conversions. so yes werewolves can hurt vampires, but since they aren't covered in VK
but in the conversion book it says tha all SDC damage from claws do full damage to vamps. A restrained claw does 4d6+PS SDC but a power claw (1 action) will do 1d6 MD. so does that mean that a restrained punch can hurt but a power claw doesn't? or does that mean in one attack a werewolf can take out 2 vamps (if we are converting 1:100) or 600 (if we are saing that an MDC attwill completely destroy any sdc object-of course assuming the unlikely event that the ww can hit 600 in a single blow)

[The Beast]

Beast:
Well I didn't see it in the PF2, so apparently they can't in SDC worlds, since this is the only listing for SDC.

It's under the same part in Western Empire.

[Prysus]

Beast:
Well I didn't see it in the PF2, so apparently they can't in SDC worlds, since this is the only listing for SDC.
In VK a master vampire will have at most 180 HP, or almost 2 MD. But the fact that their own attacks don't do normal damage but much less like a regular punch doing 1d4+PS. Which ends up complicating everything. Because now we need to know if they do full damage, or if they to are altered. If they are not altered sn creatures are able to take out serious vamps in a single hit.

Greetings and Salutations. As Beast replied, this is listed in the exact same section of Western Empire (where the PF vampires are written up), right under their "Damage" listing.

As for Vampire Kingdoms (VK), it actually specifically lists how much damage vampires do to other vampires. Again, this is simply found in the "Damage" section. Please read it, this will save a lot of trouble.

Drewkitty:
My statement is in direct response to your's, and so it should be read as such. or do you mean like this?
KW, They do MD a.k.a. Megadamage. I think you have heard of it. It is the type of damage that is done to MDC stuff.
Don't rightly know if it is because they have SNPS or 'just because'. (and it is late so I don't want to look it up right now.)

Vampires inflicted a preset M.D. damage in VK because Palladium hadn't started Supernatural P.S. yet. Even dragons just had set M.D. with claws and such (regardless of their P.S. score). This will likely change in the Expanded & Revised.

As for why Vampires could damage each other, this is listed as being part of their "strange nature." No other explanation is given, so you have to figure just some mystery no one understands (at least from that write-up alone).

wouldn't it have been easier to scale the damage capacity of the vampires up instead limiting everyone else and raising these annoying questions. But the description of dragons is contradictory, but it does say that BECAUSE dragons are supernatural and creatures of magic that they can hurt vamps. but they pretty much stop there and don't bother giving us the rest of the megaversal conversions. so yes werewolves can hurt vampires, but since they aren't covered in VK

For some history, in the Rifts main book, Dragons are listed as supernatural beings (as per R:UE this is retconned). In Vampire Kingdoms, they go out of their way to add they're also "creatures of magic" (this was NOT mentioned anywhere in the original Rifts main book) and can damage vampires. The book also states that "creatures of magic" are natural enemies of vampires. Vampires are also vulnerable to magic.

In Western Empire (for PF), the fact Creatures of Magic hurt them is also listed (under their magic weakness). This is clearly stated.

On a Gateway to the Megaverse podcast Kevin actually goes so far to state that supernatural beings can damage vampires in general. Though this was only in one of his podcast interviews and never stated in any book.

but in the conversion book it says tha all SDC damage from claws do full damage to vamps. A restrained claw does 4d6+PS SDC but a power claw (1 action) will do 1d6 MD. so does that mean that a restrained punch can hurt but a power claw doesn't? or does that mean in one attack a werewolf can take out 2 vamps (if we are converting 1:100) or 600 (if we are saing that an MDC attwill completely destroy any sdc object-of course assuming the unlikely event that the ww can hit 600 in a single blow)

Admittedly, M.D. really messes up the concept. The basic rule is that anything that damages will inflict H.P. damage only. If the attack is M.D. in nature, then it will still do only H.P. damage on a 1:1 scale. So 1D6 M.D. inflicts 1D6 H.P. to a vampire. There are a few examples of this throughout the VK book, but I can't find a general ruling. As I said, with so many races inflicting M.D. it mucks up the ruling (because then a restrained punch is MORE effective than a full strength punch which just makes no sense). But, in general, that is the ruling.

For werejaguars, their damage rating is identical to vampires. So I'd go so far as to rule that the restrained/full/power punch damage to a vampire would be the same as vampire vs. vampire (found in the vampire section), but there is no official ruling on that. Again, in Mega-Damage settings this is pretty muddled. Hopefully Revised & Expanded will clean this up, but that is no guarantee.

In Palladium Fantasy, this is much more clean cut. There is no M.D. to worry about, so S.D.C./H.P. damage that hurts a vampire just does H.P. damage, end of story. Clean and simple.

Also in Palladium Fantasy werebeasts (this includes werewolves and others) are Creatures of Magic. Since creatures of magic can hurt vampires (due to a vulnerability to magic) this makes it very clean and simple again.

Anyways, that's all for now. Hopefully that cleans some of this up. Reading the sections first will help clean up some questions. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[KillWatch]

Prysus:
That was simple, and concise. But now you've raised another ping on my poohdar; MDC becomes SDC when attacking HP? I didn't think that that's what that meant, as you pointed out the restrained punch is more powerful than the full strength punch. The logic doesn't follow, unless the MDC hit remains an MDC hit, which just destroys the vampire. However if this isn't true then its another major flaw in MDC and the damage conversions

[Eryk Stormbright]

Or even a VI that actually TAKES THE FORM of a virus, and whose power is increased by each vampire infected with it.

Reminds me of Vicissitude from White Wolf, granted Vicissitude isn't a VI, but it is a disease from the Deep Umbra that has some pretty cool powers. lol tell me a vamp that could make a Vozhd (War Ghoul) wouldn't be cool and make good ol' Reid's Rangers stop and have to change their shorts

I like some variety in my vampires. Certain vampires strong enough to get rare powers. White Wolf is a good example of this.

I agree.. variety is a Good thing! for me the vamps in the Palladium systems are all the same, very little differences in Master/Secendory/Wild vampires.

[Severus Snape]

The only thing you need to know about vampires is that they suck.

[KillWatch]

well if you want to place blame begin with brahm stoker. He's the one that popularized the sexual vampire

[KillWatch]

I agree, I didn't know the full history, but he certainly was the first to make a mass appeal for sexualized vampires

[X'Zanthar]

My own question concerning vampires: What is to be done with a vampire's hand to hand knowledge if they were say a level 15 Warrior before being turned? Do they keep any attacks per melee, parry/strike/dodge bonuses, or special strikes like death blows (and what does that mean for vampire vs human, or vampire vs vampire)?

I think (no books on hand) I remember they get to keep what OCC skills/abilities they had, but are frozen at the level in which they became a vamp. So a level 15 warrior would have a incredible HtH skill as a vamp.

We have run into the "pains in the neck" several times over the years, I like the fact they are what they are, a intelligent (in most cases), predatory virus. They seek to spread unless controlled.

In palladium, Vald-Tegor keeps a nice vamp image by keeping his and other vamp in control. We actually helped him out unintentionally once by destroying a plot by a VI that had its followers make and stake a huge number of vamps in order to basically take over a large enough area that it would be too hard for Vald-Tegor to remove him. The VI was impersonating a Old One, duping its followers into thinking this would release him. We were manipulated into doing it, though we probably would have anyway. The staked vamps were easy clean up at the end, one water elemental and gone.

Our GM had a PC stumble on some records that gave us some history on VI's (until that point we had no clue as to what they were and thought a rival god was involved). Supposedly they were powerful minions of the Old Ones who were cursed at some point (unclear as to who did it, but the gist was powerful elemental gods) at the end of the chaos war. They had turned on the Old Ones at one point, then turned against the good guys at the end, but got cursed for it and sent away from the living.....there was more, will look for it, I thought it was awesome and since we had not read the VK book, thought it was actually a write up in it,

[KillWatch]

that is another thing isn't it. why don't vampires wear armor? At least vest armor. MDC vest armor would solve their problems. Wow you nat 20'ed my MDC vest, with an SDC wooden stake. Strangely, I don't care. But now you get to die, isn't that fun?

[JuliusCreed]

that is another thing isn't it. why don't vampires wear armor? At least vest armor. MDC vest armor would solve their problems. Wow you nat 20'ed my MDC vest, with an SDC wooden stake. Strangely, I don't care. But now you get to die, isn't that fun?

Nothing saying they can't actually. Heck, look at the cover of Vampire Kingdoms. The leader vampire IS wearing armor. Of course, Vampires not wearing armor is more related to the stereotypical arrogance associated with being one, at least from the point of view of the Master and Secondary. From their viewpoint, they are the superior predator and pretty much invulnerable to just about anything that mere mortal peasants and nobodies can throw at them. Their arrogance is largely based on the fear that the general populace of mortal nobodies has of them. Sure you can put a stake in Farmer Joe's hand and tell him it will incapacitate the vampire threatening him. But when it comes to crunch time, chances are farmer Joe is going to hide in the corner trying very hard not to wet himself when said vampire shows up for a snack. Now a vampire heading into the sharp end against experienced warriors and heroes is much more likely to don some kind of protection just in case. After all, he's not dealing with the sheep anymore. These are people that could possibly be just as intimidated by him as Farmer Joe was, but why take the chance. In the case of Wild vampires and armor, the only reason I don't really see it is because of their beastly nature. They are animals. They don't think of armor, they think of feeding. What really counts as armor for these guys is the horde of other Wild Vamps in front of him.

[TechnoGothic]

The vampires of all palladium books need a rewrite. Both for MDC and SDC worlds.

*nods*yeah i doubt that will happen.. but i agree with you. i've never cared much for the way the vamps are done in the Palladium system.

RIFTER #49 = check it out sometime.
Vampire Lords (Cursed vamps)
Master Vampires (Willing servents)
Common Vampires (Secondary vampires)
then you have the many Flawed vampire types in the book.

New vampire books are coming soon with updated Vampire Kingdoms and the new Vampire
Source Book. Maybe there will be some improvements. Of course, that means buying a Rifts
book and doing a SDC conversion, however they've been doing a good job doing conversions
in all the books.

RIFTER #49 is better than any Rifts vampires.

1) Palladium vamps have only one thing that is "unique". It is that they originate from an alien intelligence. But this foiled by the SDC palladium settings as apparently in PF it only goes up to Master Vampire. Originality is further compromised by saying that they can turn to wolves or bats, things which would have no consequence for an alien intelligence that spans the megaverse. So instead of choosing something original for itself to allow its minions to turn into, they pass over hellhounds, kreegor hounds, or any of the other beasts of the megaverse, that can run or fly. And why not just change the original body by giving it wings or simply being able to increase speed. No, they pick the dog ancestor and a mammalian flier, which are supersitiously "creepy" or "dangerous"

VI's are not even Original. Necroscope novels had VI-like vampires too, as did several other novel series from the 70s and 80s.
You want dangerous, predatory vampires. RIFTER #49.

The next time I plan to use vampires I'm combining the VK vamps with the ones from Rifter 49.

AMEN brotha "the beast". RIFTER #49 Vampires are perfect, powerful, dangerous, and predatory.

Shaka:
They do MDC Damage
and now I thank you for hating them even more. You are right they are not MDC. But apparently no hth attacks will work on them unless its wood or silver etc. I found no notation for supernatural creatures being able to damage them. That means two vampires who hate each other will not be able to kill much less hurt each other.

ANY Being with Supernatural PS can harm vampires and werebeasts. They inflict Half-damage only unless otherwise stated.
NIGHTBANE, HU2 books mention this in several places in several books.

Werebeasts can Kill vampires even through HtH combat as stated in RIFTS.
Good rule of thumb ... Supernatural PS does damage and can kill vampires.