HEY!!!Who put the role in my roleplaying game?!!!

[Noon]

Well, some people seem to play characters by group consensus - if someone apart from you (particularly the GM) thinks your character wouldn't do that, then he simply cannot, or takes some massive XP penalty or such.

I wouldn't call this roleplaying. As far as I'm aware in real life there is no group of other beings deciding if each of my actions is in character for me (Herman's head, anyone?). I decide my own role in life. So I don't call this group consensus thing roleplaying.

That said, simply stating your character goes to hit might very well be a person portraying their character. Adding on dialog or posing can simply be pointless hamishness. The meat is in that the character would kill for their cause - dialog doesn't change that (though sometimes a character who wears their heart on their sleave helps in order to grasp the characters principles).

And yeah, there's just plain (as far as you can manage it) tactical gaming. Who plays their pawn or bishop in chess? Same thing, just play the character as a pawn. Though really it's impossible to do unless the GM sets the win condition for the game. If you as a player decide a win condition for your character that you invent, your roleplaying - your character cares about achieving that goal, not because the game/game master says he has to, but simply because the player invented a goal based on the game world situation and where his character is in it. It might be a shallow goal, but there are plenty of people who drive around in sports cars in RL - shallow doesn't mean it's not a real role.

Other people might simply come to socialise, because they've found the GM wants to tell a story and trying to make choices just gets him cross. So they just come to chat. Ironically, probably best to stop trying to tell a story, if you want roleplay to happen.

[MrShowtime]

GMs lead how they lead. If a lot of roleplaying is how they do things, then that is how they do things. If your player group tells you they like how you lead then I'm sure they do. Why would they lie? It only leads to more GMing by you which they don't like.

Another way of leading, which is not something most 'real' roleplayers hate, is the Munchkin way. Everything is battle oriented, and the stronger the character the better. I know it's very common for people to play this way. I don't play like this personally, though when I do play I seem to have one of if not the strongest character in the group but it's only because of how I play.

Roleplaying is to each his own. I never mind how my players play as long as they play the same way the whole way through. If you define your character a certain way, I would expect him/her to be played that way throughout his tenure in the group. People don't just change their morals and such at the drop of a hat.

All in all if the players and the GM get along and everyone is having fun then there is no wrong way to play. Fun is all that matters.

[Colt47]

Some people play more for the board game tactical aspect then for the role playing aspect and I honestly see nothing wrong with this other than the fact that Rifts is HORRIBLE at tactical movement. It also doesn't help that other aspects of the game lack any kind of global standardization in statistics, either.

[Cinos]

My groups always been good at doing both, with most people being math majors who love number crunching and drama clubers who love acting and developing motive, and haven't really had a problem finding good role players vs roll players. Run of the mill fights aren't much more then 'I shoot', "he dodges', like if it's just some bandit fight or what not. When it's more of a 'plot fight' or something important, they start pulling their shenanigans, and the fight is much more descriptive and flowing, leading to very fun moments in the game (using a wall scaling ladder as an impromptu club in a massive battle, or a character hanging for dear life on a dragon as it lifts off to gouge its wings and bring it back into the range of the others).

We're all pretty mechanically minded even in the flow of an RP, some times we stop as a player asks, "Well how would this work within the rules", and we quickly find some means it can be done, or a slight nudge to a number here or there that makes it fit their action.

[Juce734]

Me and my players can spend hours just talking in character and only touch dice when we're in combat or doing skills, and even then I describe the results in a dramatic fashion so as to provoke an emotional response. I mean if you don't really care about the person that you're playing maybe you should be using a computer or game system where all you do is kill things and blow **** up. Nothing says fun like crawling around doing nothing but headshots for three hours.

I just wish I was good enough to do only headshots for three hours.

[Spinachcat]

The GM sets the tone of the game. The more you put the rules in the background, the more the players will as well (at least, most players).

However, everyone has their own level of immersion. Some players enjoy the playacting more than others. Some love it so much they join costume LARPS and leave the dice behind! Other players like to stay more 3rd person from their character.

But if a GM wants more RP, its always gotta start from the GM and the GM must encourage it among his players. I don't mean "give more XP" - I mean saying "how does MonGore do that?" and taking the time to have dialogues with NPCs, even in combat.

Heck, especially in combat! Make more talkative villains! Guys who can't stop flapping their gums when they fighting your PCs.

[Tearstone]

Groups often have issues with allowing players to take on children characters. Some groups even restrict males to playing male characters.

-Pax

Yeah, I wouldn't play with them. That, I find, is rather limiting, and is sexually biased.

[Tearstone]

I agree with both sides of this, but then again my own first experience was interesting.

There was some rolling and some role-playing both, and I think a good mix is probably best. This way you can work with the stats and the numbers, but by keeping the story in mind you can make it more memorable. Though sometimes people remember that Nat 20 die roll at a critical moment, and celebrate it like a touchdown at the Superbowl.

I also play in groups where there aren't any die-rolls, but combat happens a lot. There, players usually keep in mind what their character is capable of, knows about, and their past experience, where they are in their training and the like, and goes from there. GM's usually keep 'em honest if need be, but for the most part the players are rather experienced and are typically trusted to be honest.

Sometimes when in those groups I do throw in quiet die rolls behind the scenes, behind the posts to see if something good, or bad happens, and to sometimes do an opposed roll.

[TechnoGothic]

WHile I can Role-play any character I create. I just cannot get Invested in an Made-up character. I can role-play out out events, combats, romances, whatever. But I, Myself, just never care if that character happens to Die in the game. Sure as the character I try not to get killed best I can. BUT if he did happen to get killed, i smile shrug it off and make a new one ASAP if i didnt already have a back-up character created just in case.

My Group and I prefer playing Ourselves in games. It is pretty fun. The whole "what if" is interesting to us. Also keeps us from being jackassez for no reason too. And Do We Become Invested. Boy do we. You would think at times we really was involved in the setting and story plot.

Me as a Mage type of character (after learning it) Is fun.
Me as a Cyborg type of character (however) is Dramatic.

We played one Game, where we were all forced to become Juicers. Ohh Boy. I've never used drugs and never will, so I had to read up on Juicer Uprising and ask other players who do use drugs How I might feel or behave realisticly. I went with it, and decided randomly I was Hooked Hooked. I loved the Power being a Juicer made me. Others went with different approach such as counting the days until they can detox for the Family's safty. Mine, Never...why give it up. That Me,Myself,&I Juicer died a Juicer. I had them Crying I played it so well.

[Tearstone]

That's an interesting take, Techno. I'm not a fan of players playing themselves because the idea here is to take on a character, not just a class or set of skills attached to your own personality/experiences.

However, if it were done well, I could certainly see it. Might make things easier as far as determining what a character might, or might not do if you already are a close carbon-copy.

[Shorty Lickens]

There was a damn good article in Dragon magazine back in 1991 or so that covered the whole "Roll vs Role" debate. Doubt I could find it now.
But it pointed out back then that people will sometimes get into role playing to collect cool gear and waste power monsters and thats about the extent of their Role-playing experience. The sad thing is if they just wanna do that, they could easily pick up Diablo 2 or Titan Quest. We didnt have them back in 1991 but we sure as hell have them now.
No reason to sit down at a table any more unless you are very serious about the role-playing experience.

[Anthar]

Funny, I've read that same article in Dragon magazine and I believe I still have it lying around, somewhere...

[Shorty Lickens]

Apparently its issue 188.
http://www.reocities.com/thezup/dragon/DMDM.html

[Shorty Lickens]

TSR’s D&D® and AD&D® systems are role-playing games. Unfortunately, no dictionary gives role-playing”the defini tion that garners expect of it: Its an activity designed to be fun, with the partici- pants thinking creatively and using their imagination. There are numerous articles about new nonplayer characters, magical items, and so on, but few guidelines have been presented on how to become better role-players. This article, though by no means exhaustive, provides a few ideas about how to get more out of your gaming through more effective role-playing. Put the stress on role I once asked a player in one of my campaigns, “
"Why do you think they call it ‘role-playing,’anyway?””
His answer was: “Because of the dice.”
I regret to say that he was serious. Gaming, as he knew it (and as too many of us know it), is the juggling of statistics and scores for the purpose of making a powerful character. Most of us begin playing this way, and for a while it is entertaining. But, as one horde of despicable monsters after another falls to the heroes’ swinging swords, the excitement wears off. Soon no one is interested in how many 20s you roll or even how many orcs you killed that day. This is the point where most casual players quit the game, leaving only the hard-core players deter- mined to enjoy themselves. Around this time, the remaining group begins to develop the art of role-playing until everyone participates in it to some degree. Role-playing is fundamental to the AD&D and D&D games; no one plays because he or she likes keeping records and memorizing charts. The idea behind role-playing is very clear: It is pure esca- pism, pretending to be a person you clear- ly are not. How, exactly, do we go about this? What tables are there for it in the Dungeon Masters Guide? There are no rules for role-playing; there are, however, certain guidelines that will help you become better role-ers.”
The obvious question that comes to mind then is also the most important one:
Why should we attempt to be better role-players anyway?
For one thing, role- playing is a skill that can be developed and improved; as with any other skill, the better you are at it, the more fun it becomes. The whole idea of role-playing is being someone else, playing out someones dangerous and exciting (if not always
glamorous) life. Role-playing allows you all the fun of being someone who lives close to the edge without any of the risks. The game is, above all, completely safe. Your character can take 17 hp damage from a blow, fall into a pit of acid, or get swallow- ed whole, but none of it affects you. We all grow to value our characters over time,
and we don’t like to see them killed, but we dont actually lose anything. There is a flip side to role-playing: Like most things, you get out of it only what you put in. If you play a shallow, card- boardlike character, you are far less likely to enjoy yourself as much as you would playing a character with a personality and reality” about him. Whether you’re play-ing an 800-year-old elven wizard or an 80- year-old human beggar, your character should be believable. Actors on stage get into character” and play their parts; they step away from who they are and become who they are not. In the same way, garners need to develop personas for their characters. Once you know what your character is like, it should be easier to assume the mind-frame that allows you to imagine yourself in his shoes. Perhaps your character is completely unlike you, so much so that you would act quite differently than your PC, given a change in circumstances. There are many things you can do to encourage role-playing. It is always more fun to role- play if the whole group is participating; it’s hard to get into character when everyone else is interested only in getting the most treasure and being the best rules lawyers they can.
A certain mood also needs to be set for good playing as well, for the mood in gaming is comparable to the setting in theater. Above anything else, creativity is absolutely necessary. That’s okay, though, because role-playing gamers are all crea- tive; if they weren’t, they wouldn’t be gaming. When a group of people role-play well, their imaginations are in high gear, and the whole group has fun. That is the goal of role-playing, after all: having fun.

- Participation -
DM: “In our last game, when we left off, you were just about to fight Serpentyne, the ancient red dragon
that you have been stalking for months, and—”
Player 1: “What? Where are we?”
Player 2: “Did we kill it? Wheres my share of the treasure?”
Player 3: “Which character was I play-ing?”

In the example above, the players have no idea what is going on. The time spent between gaming sessions has dulled their appetite for role-playing; they are not involved in the situation. At the end of the last session, the group was tense and ready for the encounter. Now, they are so removed from the scenario that they will unthinkingly go through the motions of playing for the next 45 minutes to get back into the mood: imagining what they are doing, planning, and slowly starting to have fun again. The best way to avoid this problem and the wasted time that goes with it is to get the players (and the DM) ready to play before you begin. The way people get warmed up for role-playing is the same way people ready themselves for sports: with warm-up exercises. These exercises
should be fun and should help get the players back into the role-playing frame of mind. To start, ask a player to tell you what color the local tavern is painted. Ask another player how his character celebrates his birthdays, and whether or not he kissed anyone on his last birthday (if the PC did, ask who it was and have him explain the circumstances). When the player comes up with a suitably creative answer, move on to the next person, ask- ing more off the wall and unexpected questions to force him to be imaginative.
Don’t ask him any questions to which he already knows the answers—make him think. The best way to get everyone warmed up is to fire as many questions at the players as you can; when they get the hang of it, they are ready. It’s as simple as that. From the warm-ups, you can move directly into the adventure, knowing that the group is well prepared to play.
-Go with the flow-
DM:“The bugbears have, uh, thirty gold pieces on them.”
Player 1: Gee, that’s a lot. I wonder why theyre carrying so much.”
Player 2: “And we never encountered bugbears this far south before.”
Player 3: “That jerk the baron has a lot of money, so . . .”
Player 2: “My friends, I smell a conspir- acy. I think we should pay the good baron a little visit—unannounced, of course.”

What you as the DM meant to say was thirty silver pieces. Do you correct your- self, or let the players get the wrong idea? If you have any sense at all as a DM, you leave the players in the dark. The more a DM allows the party to choose their own paths in an adventure, the more the group will participate as a whole. If the party overestimates the importance or role of an NPC, as in the example, work with their mistake. Obviously the idea is intriguing to them, so follow their lead. They will ask you later in the adventure if you thought they would catch on to the baron’s schemes so quickly. This is a good thing! The players will feel that they have accom- plished something with their clever deduc- tions, and if you alter the plot so that their suspicions turn out to be true, they will be rewarded for the good role-playing they have done. In the future, they will be even more interested in thinking through their actions. Planned scenarios are fine as long as the planning that went into them does not make them restrictive. The players need to feel that they are interacting with the campaign world, not just following a set of tracks carved in stone. Perhaps, in the course of an adventure, the major NPC villain that you wanted to use is left out entirely. It doesn’t matter in the end, be- cause the NPC can always be used later. If you introduce a variety of different vil- lains to the PCs over the course of a few adventures, you can watch the players’ reactions to their enemies. Whichever NPC is the one the party hates the most or is the most interested in should become their arch-nemesis. In this way, you don’t saddle the PCs with an enemy they are bored with. The game is designed to be free-form, and co-managing your campaign with your players is an excellent way to bring them into the fun. Too often, DMs fall into the trap of assuming that they create their campaigns by themselves and the players have no input. This type of thinking needs to be avoided at all costs, for it is the DM’s gaming with the players that shapes his world and gives it a unique flavor. A good DM should pay as much attention to the things his group likes about the campaign world as the things they dislike. When the players feel that they have some control over their own destinies, they take part in the game more often and use more crea- tivity in play as they try to carve a place for themselves in the milieu. Use their imaginations to spark your own; the re- sults will be astounding.

- The impossible situation -
DM: “The room heats up as the rest of the house catches fire. Smoke is billowing up the staircase.”
Player 1: “Whoa, somebody get a rope and—who’s got rope?”
Player 2: “We left it behind when we used it to climb that cliff. What do we do?”
DM: “You begin to understand the meaning of the phrase ‘smoke inhalation.’”

The Impossible Situation occurs when there is no easy solution to a problem that the party has to deal with: monsters that cannot be fought head-to-head, death traps, clever NPCs, and colossally poor planning prior to a disaster (as in the example). These situations are not neces- sarily bad ones; on the contrary, they provide the best gaming opportunities because the players must work together and use clever thinking to escape. A truly impossible situation cannot be solved through the use of brute force or magical items; only inspiration and downright craftiness can save the party. It is a measure of a groups mettle as well; a good group of players will work to find a solu- tion, while poor role-players generally begin complaining or consulting the rules for technicalities with which to prove that the DM “can’t do that.” It is in these tense moments, when the players are racking their brains for ideas, that the most memorable and fun playing time is to be had. The time the party bluffed its way into an orcish stronghold and attacked the tribe’s leader, a large troll with an unpleasant temper, will always be one of the players’ favorite stories to tell. The players felt challenged by the situa- tion; afterward, they feel rightfully proud to have succeeded against unthinkable odds. Player characters are adventurers first and foremost, and they have every right to accomplish daring and unusual feats as long as they have found ways to pull them off. This is not to say, however, that the DM should come up with insanely difficult puzzles that require hours to solve, chal- lenges that have only one solution, and futile battles. The key to using the Impos- sible Situation is using it sparingly and refereeing it effectively.
How realistic is it when the PCs escape certain death four times a day? Even Indiana Jones would feel hard-pressed to do that. To referee these scenarios properly, the DM must give the PCs the sense that their hard-won victory is real, and the dangers they faced could have killed them. The game is more exciting when everyone knows that something is at stake besides a few more hit points. One word of caution: Sometimes, Impossible Situations backfire. The party comes up with a good plan and uses it well, but for reasons unknown to them, the plan must fail. Perhaps the giant wears a ring of spell absorption, the door to the armory opens the wrong way, or whatever. In these cases, where the party is going to be slaughtered because of some minor detail that has no significant affect on the adventure, the DM must use his final and most powerful option: He must cheat. The DM is a referee, but he is impartial for the sole purpose of providing an enter- taining milieu to adventure in, not to cause bad feelings in the group. The DM should not bow to party members’ wishes merely because they argue loudly; only in dire circumstances should the DM alter the outcome. Change a statistic, eliminate an extra trap, cancel the wandering monster that was rolled up. The point is, the party shouldn’t be wiped out by one bad die roll or overplanned death-trap. If you let the PCs live (with low hit points or after using up most of their magical items), they will feel that they have accomplished some- thing wonderful—they survived and beat the unbeatable.
One last word on cheating: If you must cheat for some reason, never let the players know. After the first time they catch you cheating, they will always suspect tha the tasks they achieved had a built-in safety net, and much of the fun of playing will be spoiled. Use the Impossible Situa tion with caution. Cheat if you have to, bu make sure that the whole groups needs are served when you do. Remember that being creative is as fun for players as it is for the DM; encourage your group’s imaginations, and you will open up new possibilities for adventure.

- Creativity and uniqueness -
DM: “A short, grubby halfling wearing leather armor approaches you, and.....
Player: “I bash him in the face with my axe, take his pouch, and go directly to the nearest jeweller. How much gold do I get?”

Creativity is the most necessary element for players and DMs in a role-playing game, since the game is played almost entirely in the imagination. However, too few players use their imagination as well as they might. In the example, the player believes that he is faced with a thief and no actual interaction is necessary, since the player is looking only for a little trea- sure. The DM is also at fault, for he has presented an encounter with a cliched, uninteresting NPC, and the player is only responding to what he has been given. For players and DMs both, the use of stereotypical characters is a serious mis- take. How many times have players run into jolly tavern-keepers, pretentious elves, and obnoxious barbarians? People expect that all dwarves are dour and taciturn because it says so in the rule books. Garners all too often choose character classes and races because of the statistical advantages each type exhibits, instead of picking a profession because it would offer a lot of role-playing possibilities. DMs should always give personalities to the NPCs the party meets, realistic identi- ties that the players can relate to. No one feels tempted to have a conversation with another generic character. The players recognize the dwarf who always speaks with an Arnold Schwarzenegger accent and who plays practical jokes on everyone, but they seem to forget the dwarf who is greedy, likes only other dwarves, and who makes friends very slowly (if you’re lucky, by the time everyone reaches 10th level). Throw out the stereotypes! Considering the fact that everyone in the real world is unique, it follows that the campaign world should have individuals as well. Players especially should beware of creating no- personality” characters.
The PC who refers to himself as the cleric is probably not role-playing. If the DM were to ask what “the cleric’s” name was, the player would doubtless have to look on his char acter sheet. As a rule, when creating a new character, players should think of something unique about the PC, some trait or piece of his past that sets him apart from other characters. By doing this, the character will have a more realistic quality and be more fun to play. Don’t let your magical items and strength scores make your character! Good role-players will also think of some bit of personal information concerning the characters past that allows for plot tie-ins; they provide information that the DM can use to make the adventure more personal. Perhaps your mage character carries a sword that is the only clue to his master’s disappearance. Small tidbits such as this not only make the character more distinc- tive, they also make him easier to play. Maybe the adventure’s villain recognizes the sword. Does the PC attack with special fervor, assuming that the villain must be responsible for the foul play involving his mentor? Does the PC attempt to bargain with him, trying to get more information? The possibilities are endless.
Another good example of this type of tie- in is demonstrated well by Tanis, from the DRAGONLANCE® saga. When he faced the Dragonlord Kitiara, he had to deal with the woman he loved, not some nameless foe! Leave openings for your DM to work with. Once you know a little bit about your character, go on to create a personal history. Where is your PC from, and why did he start adventuring? Detail his family and personality quirks, and get some idea of how he thinks. It is vital to know where a character is coming from if you want to know where he is going. To use the exam- ple of Tanis again, think about what made him different from the other heroes. He was a man torn between two worlds and two loves: knowing both, belonging to neither. He had a developed background and real motivations that caused him to act the way he did. Above all, he had a recognizable personality. These are the things that make some characters better than others. Take as much care making the PCs as you do in keeping them alive!

- Suspension of disbelief -
DM: “Since you do not react when the kobolds pour three barrels of oil on you from their high vantage point, their leader chuckles ominously as he drops the torch he is holding.”
Players (in unison): “That’s not fair! You can’t do that! I can’t believe you’re doing this to us!”

Whenever a DM does something fiend- ishly clever or uses a carefully worked-out plan, the players inevitably scream bloody murder. The worst possible tactic a DM can have NPCs use against the party is the same tactic they use against every single monster they encounter: thinking. But DMs should make intelligent decisions for the NPCs and monsters they run; no one would argue that the party should play dumb when faced with a nasty situation. Yet most DMs fail to run their characters as well as they could, for they know that the players will complain (and with much feeling) if they do. The only reason the players do this, however, is because they have not learned how to suspend disbelief. In most entertainment-oriented experi- ences, the audience willingly suspends disbelief in order to participate. No one stands up in the middle of Hamlet and yells at the actors because they are just “pretending” to be Danish nobility. Role-playing is very much the same, in that the players need to accept the DM’s premises for the whole thing to work. If a rules dispute arises, it is perfectly reason- able for the players and DM to discuss the problem and work for a solution. When the players attempt to second-guess the DM, real problems occur. A good player tries to work within the situation given him, while a poor player generally tries to argue his way out (I dont think hed shoot at me, Im only a cleric” or “Those orcs aren’t smart enough to do that. They only have ‘low’ intelligence.“). The players who stop the game to argue over such things are being immature by refusing to accept the DM’s storytelling and refereeing because things are not going their way. When someone does this, it brings the whole group out of the role-playing mood and the fun of gaming.
The way good role- players handle these situations is to direct their frustrations at the NPC or monster causing the trouble instead of the referee. If an enemy sorcerer casts a magic missile spell at your thief, blame the sorcerer, not the DM. Always react to the DM as a ref- eree; that is his role in the game. The DM handles disputes and makes rulings; he does not cause the party harm out of ill will. It may sound silly, but the truth is that DMs are the best friends players have; without them, there wouldn’t be any gaming.

- A final word -
Role-playing, like anything else, can be overdone. When your party insists on role-playing the purchasing of torches, the idea has probably gone too far. Use com- mon sense. If the adventure is getting bogged down by too much dilly-dallying on the part of the players, simply trim the role-playing back until it is at an acceptable level. Not everything has to be role- played, after all.

Player: “You know, Mr. Blacksmith, I think that this is perhaps the best horseshoe I have ever seen.”

[Shorty Lickens]

Forgive errors in formatting, it was in tight columns to begin with and near as I can tell, Word does not have a feature to remove excess line breaks. Took me a long time and by default there were extra hyphens all over the place.