Ninjas and Superspies question/thought

[Nightmask]

Couldn't find anything in the older posts regarding this but how many have noticed that in Ninjas and Superspies when it comes to the Weapons Construction and Microchip Technology Gizmoteer programs that they're completely wrong about what you can do with them? There's an explicit note you can't make modern firearms due to their precise tooling which just isn't so not even back when the book came out let alone today, people don't home make them simply because the cost of the machine lathes is expensive but a Gizmoteer has more than enough funding to cover the cost of these machines and anyone with the machinist training could make these weapons and that's what the Weapons Construction Gizmoteer has going for him.

Meanwhile Microchips are orders of magnitude more difficult and precise than the most modern firearms and require equipment to create that's beyond most who aren't millionaires to acquire, and even while a Gizmoteer might be able to make his own chip fabricators that's still well beyond the budget for a Gizmoteer even if he's got a huge electronics graveyard to salvage. It's really quite a bit more impossible to make such things than it is to make the modern firearms.

So I'm wondering if anyone's addressed this in a game or if its been given any kind of canon commentary and if so where?

[Goblin-Jack]

Couldn't find anything in the older posts regarding this but how many have noticed that in Ninjas and Superspies when it comes to the Weapons Construction and Microchip Technology Gizmoteer programs that they're completely wrong about what you can do with them? There's an explicit note you can't make modern firearms due to their precise tooling which just isn't so not even back when the book came out let alone today, people don't home make them simply because the cost of the machine lathes is expensive but a Gizmoteer has more than enough funding to cover the cost of these machines and anyone with the machinist training could make these weapons and that's what the Weapons Construction Gizmoteer has going for him.

Meanwhile Microchips are orders of magnitude more difficult and precise than the most modern firearms and require equipment to create that's beyond most who aren't millionaires to acquire, and even while a Gizmoteer might be able to make his own chip fabricators that's still well beyond the budget for a Gizmoteer even if he's got a huge electronics graveyard to salvage. It's really quite a bit more impossible to make such things than it is to make the modern firearms.

So I'm wondering if anyone's addressed this in a game or if its been given any kind of canon commentary and if so where?

Hi Nightmask.

You're right, making microchips is more difficult than making weapons. However, I don't believe that there's anything in the book or character description that says the Gizmoteer would be anymore able to make microchips (based on the very real logistic and monetary requirements you cite), than they would want to make their own guns. Let me restate that last part, "want" to make their own guns. Based on the commercial availability of guns, why would a gizmoteer want to make their own? While making a firearm is easier than making microchips, it's not a fast process. If they used a completely original design, they'd have to take it to the range all the time to test it under different conditions.

You can of course modify the games you play in to reflect your views, and by all means should feel free to do so! But, I believe Erick felt that the extreme situation of a player making guns as they chose rather than making microchips would be too imbalancing. Remember that when Ninjas was written, the internet was only used by the military and science nerds, and even then just for bulletin board postings and the occasional hack. No cell phones, no facebook, no i-Pads. None of us then could have imagined how computers and the internet would change everything today, thus the belief that making micro-chips would be less imbalancing than making guns.

Just a thought, perhaps I'm wrong. Best of luck to you!

--GJ

[drewkitty ~..~]

REmember that the N&S Setting is equivalent to the 1970's'ish tech. Not the present day.
This will account for the limitations you find in the N&S book.

Think of the Sean Connery's "James Bond" movies, not the 'jason bourne' movies nor the current 'bond' movies.

[Nightmask]

Couldn't find anything in the older posts regarding this but how many have noticed that in Ninjas and Superspies when it comes to the Weapons Construction and Microchip Technology Gizmoteer programs that they're completely wrong about what you can do with them? There's an explicit note you can't make modern firearms due to their precise tooling which just isn't so not even back when the book came out let alone today, people don't home make them simply because the cost of the machine lathes is expensive but a Gizmoteer has more than enough funding to cover the cost of these machines and anyone with the machinist training could make these weapons and that's what the Weapons Construction Gizmoteer has going for him.

Meanwhile Microchips are orders of magnitude more difficult and precise than the most modern firearms and require equipment to create that's beyond most who aren't millionaires to acquire, and even while a Gizmoteer might be able to make his own chip fabricators that's still well beyond the budget for a Gizmoteer even if he's got a huge electronics graveyard to salvage. It's really quite a bit more impossible to make such things than it is to make the modern firearms.

So I'm wondering if anyone's addressed this in a game or if its been given any kind of canon commentary and if so where?

Hi Nightmask.

You're right, making microchips is more difficult than making weapons. However, I don't believe that there's anything in the book or character description that says the Gizmoteer would be anymore able to make microchips (based on the very real logistic and monetary requirements you cite), than they would want to make their own guns. Let me restate that last part, "want" to make their own guns. Based on the commercial availability of guns, why would a gizmoteer want to make their own? While making a firearm is easier than making microchips, it's not a fast process. If they used a completely original design, they'd have to take it to the range all the time to test it under different conditions.

You can of course modify the games you play in to reflect your views, and by all means should feel free to do so! But, I believe Erick felt that the extreme situation of a player making guns as they chose rather than making microchips would be too imbalancing. Remember that when Ninjas was written, the internet was only used by the military and science nerds, and even then just for bulletin board postings and the occasional hack. No cell phones, no facebook, no i-Pads. None of us then could have imagined how computers and the internet would change everything today, thus the belief that making micro-chips would be less imbalancing than making guns.

Just a thought, perhaps I'm wrong. Best of luck to you!

--GJ

Unfortunately the Microchip Technology Gizmoteer Program explicitly states you can make microchips and lists chips ranging from optical chips (and interesting predicts digital cameras) to computer RAM, all of which require a vastly more detailed set-up than to make a hand gun or rifle. People can and have made guns at home even around the time N&S came out, albeit very few, no one's ever home-made a microchip. Either Erick really liked making this available to Gizmoteers or just kind of handwaved away the real requirements for making them. That and restricted the Weapons Construction more than necessary since they're a commonly manufactured item and the tech to make them is readily available so doesn't seem to be anything unbalancing about a PC who is dedicated to making them being able to actually make them in his high-tech Gizmoteer shop.

[Mantisking]

Unfortunately the Microchip Technology Gizmoteer Program explicitly states you can make microchips and lists chips ranging from optical chips (and interesting predicts digital cameras) to computer RAM, all of which require a vastly more detailed set-up than to make a hand gun or rifle. People can and have made guns at home even around the time N&S came out, albeit very few, no one's ever home-made a microchip. Either Erick really liked making this available to Gizmoteers or just kind of handwaved away the real requirements for making them. That and restricted the Weapons Construction more than necessary since they're a commonly manufactured item and the tech to make them is readily available so doesn't seem to be anything unbalancing about a PC who is dedicated to making them being able to actually make them in his high-tech Gizmoteer shop.

Considering that you don't really see weapons being made but you do see fantastical gadgets being created, in the action movies that are the base "genre" for Ninjas & Superspies -- I think it makes sense in relation to the rules.

[Nightmask]

Unfortunately the Microchip Technology Gizmoteer Program explicitly states you can make microchips and lists chips ranging from optical chips (and interesting predicts digital cameras) to computer RAM, all of which require a vastly more detailed set-up than to make a hand gun or rifle. People can and have made guns at home even around the time N&S came out, albeit very few, no one's ever home-made a microchip. Either Erick really liked making this available to Gizmoteers or just kind of handwaved away the real requirements for making them. That and restricted the Weapons Construction more than necessary since they're a commonly manufactured item and the tech to make them is readily available so doesn't seem to be anything unbalancing about a PC who is dedicated to making them being able to actually make them in his high-tech Gizmoteer shop.

Considering that you don't really see weapons being made but you do see fantastical gadgets being created, in the action movies that are the base "genre" for Ninjas & Superspies -- I think it makes sense in relation to the rules.

So more of rule of cool than common sense? For which you do see some pretty impressive weapons being built so you'd think the Weapons Construction feature wouldn't be so limited.