'Uses X attacks' clarification

This is a place for G.M.s and GM wannabes to share ideas and their own methods of play. It is not a locked forum so be aware your players may be watching!

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
Nemo235
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Ask my detailer.
Contact:

'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by Nemo235 »

If some attack or action takes multiple attacks, when does the actual roll to hit (or roll to whatever) take place?
Does the roll happen when the action is declared?
Does it happen on the last action that was used for it?
If so, can the action be interrupted?

Aimed shot, for example, uses two attacks, right?
Does that mean the player rolls when he declares it, on that action?
Where is the time spent aiming?
He would just shoot and then stand there or dodge or whatever, be skipped on his next attack and continue.

OR does the roll happen on the turn after 2 turns spent aiming?
Alot could happen between time. The aim could get messed up.
If the aim gets messed up after one round, can the character still choose to do something else?

I'd like to have sources from the rules in the books if possible.
Please check out my Deviant Art gallery
and my Mutants & Magic blog.
User avatar
Nekira Sudacne
Monk
Posts: 15607
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Contact:

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

The books never say. Every table rules differently. Some say they go off right away, others when the last attack is used.

The books never address it and you will never receive an official answer. sorry. you are on your own.

The only clear thing is regarding spell casting times, where the spell clearly only goes off at the end of the casting duration.
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17782
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

If some attack or action takes multiple attacks, when does the actual roll to hit (or roll to whatever) take place? Whenever the GM rules it takes place. Usually it is that very attack turn, with the attack just eating up 2 APM.
Does the roll happen when the action is declared?The roll happens when the attack happens.
Does it happen on the last action that was used for it?This is the fist question reworded, see the 1st question's answer.
If so, can the action be interrupted? Depends on the GM.

Aimed shot, for example, uses two attacks, right? RMB only one, RUE two APM
Does that mean the player rolls when he declares it, on that action? the player has to declare any modification to the basic attack.
Where is the time spent aiming?The only 'aim shot that has explicit rules about time is in the aiming MA power "one life, one shot, one kill" in the N&S book.
He would just shoot and then stand there or dodge or whatever, be skipped on his next attack and continue.

OR does the roll happen on the turn after 2 turns spent aiming?This is how it happens if you GM rules that the shot does not just eats up 2 APM but also takes place in their next attack turn.

If the aim gets messed up after one round, can the character still choose to do something else? This would be a GM ruling.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 28182
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

Generally, I believe that it's handled like spellcasting: the attack goes off on the 2nd attack, and the first attack is spent winding up, or aiming, or leaping, or whatever.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
User avatar
Nemo235
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Ask my detailer.
Contact:

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by Nemo235 »

So I'm assuming if the character has to make a dodge or gets knocked down or whatever the attack is cancelled, much like interrupting a spell.
Please check out my Deviant Art gallery
and my Mutants & Magic blog.
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 28182
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

In most cases at least, I'd say that's a safe assumption.
There might be some exceptions.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
User avatar
Nekira Sudacne
Monk
Posts: 15607
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Contact:

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

dodging does not intterupt spellcasting or other actions. only getting hit does.
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 28182
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

RUE 189-190
(emphasis added)
...unless the spell being cast is a level 1-5 invocation that can be popped off in three or four seconds, the action of parrying, dodging or striking back will break the spell invocation and prevent the mage from casting his spell...
... Likewise, getting popped in the mouth or stomach, or getting knocked down or blinded, or anything that breaks the spell caster's concentration and makes him stop in the middle of his verbalization of the spell prevents him from finishing it.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
User avatar
The Beast
Demon Lord Extraordinaire
Posts: 5959
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
Location: Apocrypha

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by The Beast »

Mysteries of Magic, page 54: wrote:...Even dodging an incoming attack is not likely to break his concentration unless he has to leap or dive out of the way or is facing multiple attackers...
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 28182
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

The Beast wrote:
Mysteries of Magic, page 54: wrote:...Even dodging an incoming attack is not likely to break his concentration unless he has to leap or dive out of the way or is facing multiple attackers...


Nice.
Another rule change.
I was hoping after RUE that they could keep things straight for a while.

I stand corrected; my information is out-of-date.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
User avatar
The Beast
Demon Lord Extraordinaire
Posts: 5959
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
Location: Apocrypha

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by The Beast »

Killer Cyborg wrote:
The Beast wrote:
Mysteries of Magic, page 54: wrote:...Even dodging an incoming attack is not likely to break his concentration unless he has to leap or dive out of the way or is facing multiple attackers...


Nice.
Another rule change.
I was hoping after RUE that they could keep things straight for a while.

I stand corrected; my information is out-of-date.


Also be aware that book states if the mage is hit, it has to cause at least 8 points of damage to break concentration.
User avatar
Blindscout
Adventurer
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:38 pm
Comment: An armed populace is a safe populace.
Location: Port Orchard, WA

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by Blindscout »

Ugh, Ok, I do not have Mysteries of Magic yet.

Is the 8 points of damage to the mage himself? To his armor? Either/or? If it is to the armor, Is it at least 8 points regardless of type? Does it have to cause damage and physically move the mage? Or does having a laser burn the mage's armor for 8+ points of damage, yet doing nothing to the mage them self interrupt it?
Guy_LeDouche wrote:Any experiment of any kind that starts with "hold my beer" should make the property owner immune to frivolous lawsuits.

Mack wrote:Oh, and if the POTUS evey gave me a nuke, I think I'd aim it at Bieber.


_/|,[____],
--...-L-[]IIII[]-
.^._.^.-===-
()_) ()_)-o-)_)

BEEP BEEP Let's go for a ride in the Jeep!
User avatar
The Beast
Demon Lord Extraordinaire
Posts: 5959
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
Location: Apocrypha

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by The Beast »

Blindscout wrote:Ugh, Ok, I do not have Mysteries of Magic yet.

Is the 8 points of damage to the mage himself? To his armor? Either/or? If it is to the armor, Is it at least 8 points regardless of type? Does it have to cause damage and physically move the mage? Or does having a laser burn the mage's armor for 8+ points of damage, yet doing nothing to the mage them self interrupt it?


From my understanding of that section, it's 8 points of damage to the caster, not the caster's armor, shield, or whatever. It didn't say anything about having to physically having to move the mage, and it didn't say it had to be a specific type.
User avatar
Blindscout
Adventurer
Posts: 452
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:38 pm
Comment: An armed populace is a safe populace.
Location: Port Orchard, WA

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by Blindscout »

Cool, thank you, Beast. :)
Guy_LeDouche wrote:Any experiment of any kind that starts with "hold my beer" should make the property owner immune to frivolous lawsuits.

Mack wrote:Oh, and if the POTUS evey gave me a nuke, I think I'd aim it at Bieber.


_/|,[____],
--...-L-[]IIII[]-
.^._.^.-===-
()_) ()_)-o-)_)

BEEP BEEP Let's go for a ride in the Jeep!
User avatar
mobuttu
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 1376
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:33 pm
Comment: Palladium fan from Catalonia
Location: Girona (Catalonia) - Spain
Contact:

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by mobuttu »

According to pg346 RUE (2n Printing - not 1st printing) Power Punch counts as 2 attacks and "the blow lands on the second action".

According to this I always play aiming, declaring it in the first action, and shotting/rolling and the second. Meanwhile it can be interrupted.
- Un blog de Rifts. My blog about our game.
- Maqui Ed. My RPG company.

I received a *Nekira Seal of Approval*...Once! :P
"always remember; the Splugorth can do anything" - everloss
Sorry for my bad English! :o
User avatar
mobuttu
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 1376
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:33 pm
Comment: Palladium fan from Catalonia
Location: Girona (Catalonia) - Spain
Contact:

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by mobuttu »

Torch wrote:What about the multiple actions bursts take? If the attack happens on the second action, what transpires during the first action? Are you preparing to fire your weapon or what? If the enemy dodges or runs behind cover, does the attack do no damage or just less damage? Bursts use up anywhere from one attack to all of your attacks for a whole melee. I have been wanting to know this for a long time now.


Good question. I don't know official answer. IMHO, what I do is to roll every attack and divide damage done in the burst to between hit objectives.
- Un blog de Rifts. My blog about our game.
- Maqui Ed. My RPG company.

I received a *Nekira Seal of Approval*...Once! :P
"always remember; the Splugorth can do anything" - everloss
Sorry for my bad English! :o
User avatar
glitterboy2098
Rifts® Trivia Master
Posts: 13545
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:37 pm
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Re: 'Uses X attacks' clarification

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

Torch wrote:What about the multiple actions bursts take? If the attack happens on the second action, what transpires during the first action? Are you preparing to fire your weapon or what? If the enemy dodges or runs behind cover, does the attack do no damage or just less damage? Bursts use up anywhere from one attack to all of your attacks for a whole melee. I have been wanting to know this for a long time now.


not a factor anymore, since burst rules have changed since the RMB.
there are no more "full melee bursts" or multi-attack bursts.

in RUE burst sizes are listed in the RUE entries for their respective weapons.
assualt rifles and SMG's are 3round burst (2x damage) and 5rond burst (x3 damage). machineguns aren't specifically listed, but commonly accepted as 10 round burst (x5 damage) and 20 round burst (x10 damage), as these best match up to write ups in the books.
all bursts take a single action.
(currently there are no rules for sprays)
Author of Rifts: Deep Frontier (Rifter 70)
Author of Rifts:Scandinavia (current project)
Image
* All fantasy should have a solid base in reality.
* Good sense about trivialities is better than nonsense about things that matter.

-Max Beerbohm
Visit my Website
Locked

Return to “G.M.s Forum”