Nightbane Swordbearer?

[Nightmask]

Hmmmm, got the sudden thought because of the late-bloomer Nightbane thread: Could or would a Nightbane make the sacrifice to become a Swordbearer? Nightbane are a heavy PPE class with all those talents that run on PPE but becoming a Swordbearer almost completely wipes out your PPE enough to make nearly all talents unusable. If possible it would take one seriously dedicated Nightbane to make such a sacrifice in order to combat the Ba'al.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Unless the sword was an apocalypse weapon, it wouldn't be worth it unless the bane rolled crap for PPE in the first place.

[The Dark Elf]

Maybe that sword is a trick by one of the nightlords...

[Nightmask]

Unless the sword was an apocalypse weapon, it wouldn't be worth it unless the bane rolled crap for PPE in the first place.

Well the class is far more than just weapons, and they come with a wide range of possible powers. Being immune to detection as a Nightbane is a pretty big plus for example, and something that makes your facade form more formidable when trying to pass as a human isn't a bad deal either. It's not all about how much damage you can deal after all.

[Nightmask]

Maybe that sword is a trick by one of the nightlords...

Well I was thinking more in terms of straight-up Nightbane+Artifact item than anything more duplicitous, although that would make for a possible story plot I imagine.

[drewkitty ~..~]

MO: NB that have had their becoming would not become a Swordbearer class. While they could use an artifact weapon they would not bond with it.

[Nightmask]

MO: NB that have had their becoming would not become a Swordbearer class. While they could use an artifact weapon they would not bond with it.

Generally speaking artifacts don't give you access to their powers without that bond, especially the fully sentient ones. Without that sacrifice and commitment an artifact Hand Axe is just an unbreakable hand axe doing no more damage than any other hand axe and nothing more.

[Anthar]

MO: NB that have had their becoming would not become a Swordbearer class. While they could use an artifact weapon they would not bond with it.

Generally speaking artifacts don't give you access to their powers without that bond, especially the fully sentient ones. Without that sacrifice and commitment an artifact Hand Axe is just an unbreakable hand axe doing no more damage than any other hand axe and nothing more.

It is the Swordbearer class that absorbs the PPE, the Artifact powers can be used without the permanent loss of PPE, in fact a Nightlord avatar is using one the give himself a Nightbane aura to infiltrate a Nightbane faction.

[Nightmask]

MO: NB that have had their becoming would not become a Swordbearer class. While they could use an artifact weapon they would not bond with it.

Generally speaking artifacts don't give you access to their powers without that bond, especially the fully sentient ones. Without that sacrifice and commitment an artifact Hand Axe is just an unbreakable hand axe doing no more damage than any other hand axe and nothing more.

It is the Swordbearer class that absorbs the PPE, the Artifact powers can be used without the permanent loss of PPE, in fact a Nightlord avatar is using one the give himself a Nightbane aura to infiltrate a Nightbane faction.

It's the artifact that drains off the PPE, it's expended in forging the bond between owner and artifact, and yes I remember that there are two Nightlords who've been shown using artifacts, the one's avatar you mention and the other who used the one with the special rifting power that is now on the run and hiding from the other lords. But they're also not natural creatures and have such enormous amounts of PPE it's entirely possible that what appears like a complete burning off of PPE to bond with an artifact is a trivial amount to a Nightlord. After all if you don't know what an artifact can do how can you use its powers, and if the artifact won't talk to you how can you know what it can do?

[Braer]

Personally, I always thought that the draining off of all a Nightbane's PPE would be bogus in this case. While the Swordbearer class does say that most of it is burned off in the process of bonding, the average adult human has on the order of 3d6 PPE. I wouldn't see any reason why it would take a Nightbane on the order of a hundred on average to do so. Maybe 3d6 or 3d4, or a static amount between 5 and 20.

That said, I would think an Intelligent ancient weapon would simply avoid bonding with a Nightbane. They were created to be used by humans against the forces of darkness. A creature of shadow and darkness would make an odd choice at best. It is ultimately the artifact's choice, and some awakened supernatural being looking for power isn't necessarily going to look appealing.

Given that any artifacts that the Nightlords hold are probably in vaults some place as far away from anyone as possible, I can picture a Nightbane (or party) liberating a bunch of them, possibly as a side effect of some other anti-Nightlord mission. It doesn't seem unreasonable that the artifacts would talk to a worthy carrier, transform into conveniently small shapes to carry, and even allow the carrier to use them and occasionally use their powers. But while our worthy Nightbane makes a fine carrier, they really want to be given to humans to bond with. An adventure could be centered around or involve our artifact laden Nightbane traveling and delivering magical objects to the people the objects have chosen.

[drewkitty ~..~]

You could just make a NightBane Swordbearer class, like how they made a NB mage and NB mystic in the main book.

[Tor]

MO: NB that have had their becoming would not become a Swordbearer class. While they could use an artifact weapon they would not bond with it.

Generally speaking artifacts don't give you access to their powers without that bond, especially the fully sentient ones. Without that sacrifice and commitment an artifact Hand Axe is just an unbreakable hand axe doing no more damage than any other hand axe and nothing more.

It is the Swordbearer class that absorbs the PPE, the Artifact powers can be used without the permanent loss of PPE, in fact a Nightlord avatar is using one the give himself a Nightbane aura to infiltrate a Nightbane faction.

Anyone can use lesser/greater artifacts, really. I thought the aura one was a greater one.

I thought you only had to be a Swordbearer OCC to be able to use the strongest "Greatest" artifacts.

But then, of course, Moloch wields a Greatest Artifact yet retains his PPE, so who knows.

All I can figure is he can used the inherent stuff like damage (Darkslayer) but none of the special powers, which would require bonding with the intelligence in it?

[gaby]

I think it,s unfair to have a Nightbane Swordbearer.

[Johnathan]

Ya know. I say this is highly interpretive, honestly. In my most recent NB campaign, I played a Wampyr. Neither truly human or Bane, and obviously he had almost NO PPE(I think I rolled a 2 on his PPE). However, he acquired a greatest artifact weapon (which, in this particular game, was none other than Iosef Pendragon himself!). My character lost no PPE in the process of acquisition (not like he had any anyway...) and was able to use the artifact after being "tested" (which was actually a grueling process for him...). So... It's really up to the GM on how one goes about acquiring and using these weapons properly.

Oh, as a side note, the GM for that game was El Magico, the co-writer for the NBSG.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I think it,s unfair to have a Nightbane Swordbearer.

It is only unfair when the said NB is in a 'low powered' campain.

snip...So... It's really up to the GM on how one goes about acquiring and using these weapons properly.
...snip

Agrees, with in a game the GM is the final determinator of what goes on in his game.

But 'just getting a greatest artifact' and with 'getting and bonding with it' are two different things. One you are only using it, the other you are changing class.

[Tinker Dragoon]

Hmmmm, got the sudden thought because of the late-bloomer Nightbane thread: Could or would a Nightbane make the sacrifice to become a Swordbearer? Nightbane are a heavy PPE class with all those talents that run on PPE but becoming a Swordbearer almost completely wipes out your PPE enough to make nearly all talents unusable. If possible it would take one seriously dedicated Nightbane to make such a sacrifice in order to combat the Ba'al.

It's a possibility. Under the "Physical Bonuses" section of the Swordbearer O.C.C., it says that the increased attributes granted by the class "do not become supernatural ... unless the character had supernatural strength and endurance in the first place." This would seem to suggest that the class is open to non-human, supernatural creatures as well as humans (although it could also be referring to the Artifact Power of Supernatural Strength and Endurance).

Human Swordbearers lose about 2/3 of their normal P.P.E. base in the bonding (dropping from 2D6 to 1D4), so a Nightbane Swordbearer would be reduced to 1D6x10+7 P.P.E. It might also be reasonable to limit the number of "bonus" Talents that the character receives, similar to the Nightbane Sorcerer.

[eliakon]

MO: NB that have had their becoming would not become a Swordbearer class. While they could use an artifact weapon they would not bond with it.

Generally speaking artifacts don't give you access to their powers without that bond, especially the fully sentient ones. Without that sacrifice and commitment an artifact Hand Axe is just an unbreakable hand axe doing no more damage than any other hand axe and nothing more.

It is the Swordbearer class that absorbs the PPE, the Artifact powers can be used without the permanent loss of PPE, in fact a Nightlord avatar is using one the give himself a Nightbane aura to infiltrate a Nightbane faction.

It's the artifact that drains off the PPE, it's expended in forging the bond between owner and artifact, and yes I remember that there are two Nightlords who've been shown using artifacts, the one's avatar you mention and the other who used the one with the special rifting power that is now on the run and hiding from the other lords. But they're also not natural creatures and have such enormous amounts of PPE it's entirely possible that what appears like a complete burning off of PPE to bond with an artifact is a trivial amount to a Nightlord. After all if you don't know what an artifact can do how can you use its powers, and if the artifact won't talk to you how can you know what it can do?

hrmm, it says nothing about bonding except when disscussing greatest artifacts. Those are mentioned as being sentient and unable to be used except by those that they allow, it then says to see the Sword Bearer OCC. Thus while it is a valid assumption that Greatest = Sword Bearer, that is still just an asumption since it does not say either under Greatest Artifacts, or Sword Bearer that they are the ONLY ones that can use the artifact. Thus its perfectly acceptable to equally assume that Greatest Artifacts could be used by non-sword bearrers.....if the artifact in question so allows. This would be supported by the fact that the powers of Bonding are in the OCC, and not under the Item....thus suggesting that bearerhood is not the only way to use the items, just the most common, and efficient.