How could players overthrow or take back Atlantis?

[Nether]

I am curious to how such a feat could be done, and all the peeps here could prolly put a good strategy or two togather to how it could work.

I would also use ideas here for my game.

Theorycraft away.

[FuduVudu]

The main problem with Splynns hold over Atlantis is that he has no friends on rifts earth. If the TA, Vampires, Archie, CS, Lazlo, Myrlln, and the Naruni all want Splynn gone his vacation island is going to become way to expensive to maintain. Especially with Archie getting Mechanoid tech and Narunis push into rifts earth. I also doubt that Rifts earth will be ignored by the real big players in the multiverse since it is one of the greatest if not the greatest known multidimensional crossroads.

[Nether]

The main problem with Splynns hold over Atlantis is that he has no friends on rifts earth. If the TA, Vampires, Archie, CS, Lazlo, Myrlln, and the Naruni all want Splynn gone his vacation island is going to become way to expensive to maintain. Especially with Archie getting Mechanoid tech and Narunis push into rifts earth. I also doubt that Rifts earth will be ignored by the real big players in the multiverse since it is one of the greatest if not the greatest known multidimensional crossroads.

Ya well i see a player group convincing a group or two to such actions thru diplomacy / subterfuge but not all and far to many of those groups wouldn't get involved if a war did happen, like Narauni, they avoid being involved in war themselves at all cost unless the payout is worth it and likely to happen. A CS nuke strike would prolly meet with limited success if at all as i'm sure Atlantis could shoot down many of the missles with missiles of they're own, not to include magic ext. and the tougher minions may just suvive direct blast. CS invasion though would be much more plausible, especially sinse i doubt they have any clue that what is on Atlantis is just a fraction of what could be brought to bear. I could see Archie launching a strike parrellel to CS though, but sadly i think the two would get mopped up and then the dragon has awoken to lay utter waste to them.

I also doubt that the multiverse really is that concerned with Earth, because if they were they would take it under thier arm, and i mean "take it", by rounding up a small fraction of thier force and take it over entirely which many of them can do without breaking a sweat.

Does anyone think it is plausible for a group of players to overthrow / retake Atlantis? I expect there would be allies like the TA clans obviously assisting and maybe others, but which others besides the TA could the Players convince and with good reason why they should?

I could see if the players worked the angle correctly for the CS, they would have to convince them they aren't nearly the big threat they are nor that that could call upon a massive backup force. I could see if maybe the party could convince Archie to do a parellal attack as well but he would need to know the CS is unaware of such actions as i'm sure the CS won't work with anyone that isn't say FQ or NGR for such a thing. They could also try to get a War alliance between those three parties and it would be of interest to those parties to want to remove the splugorth.


My current game has:
Actually in my games the group has created a favorable contact with Archie (space station adventures around earth), and in the process they've kept him in power in Earth's orbit and allowed him further contact / establishment on the other space stations and some satelites. The players also have a good deal with FQ and NGR by selling a few blue prints of certain tech like the Glitterboy from Mutants in Orbit which trumps the other models. The players also now have satelite access with great surveylance amongst other features.

I play the only TA in the group and over the years i've found out about the Sunaj but it's been slow and painful to "still" convince the clan heads of the secret, but some are on board while others just can't believe it. So i'm sure i could get them involved in invasion and try to get them to disrupt / take over / close rifts in the major pyramids to lock down / control bringing in reinforcements. But the tricky part is convincing them not to trust that one clan nor spread word to them thru spies who could tip off the squids. If anything try to feed false info thru them. Those dirty rotten Sunaj (even though they are cool) are going down.

Getting Nemo and his sea gang involved would be good but i'm not to sure he would invest a large force in invasion and the players have only encounters the new navy at a distance a couple times but no direct contact.

Now a good chunk of the population of Atlantis is not going to want to get involved in a big scrap and would rather get their stuff (and possibly some rivals stuff) and get out of Atlantis until it is over, as a big pop has no allegiance to Splynn.

What else can be done for a group like this to successfully be able to successfully win. The players won't own Atlantis by any stretch but have a good chance to say who will be in power there and a huge enemy of the Earth removed.

[FuduVudu]

I guess some possibilities that don't involve the complexity of all out war against Atlantis by a large strike force are

1. The Asylum portal situation changes and the player characters are more then happy to make it worse for Splynn by launching a surprise attack against the Pyramid stabilizing it.

2. Player Characters come across information about Eylor via a shifter who has made a connection with the actual entity as it is astral projection itself around the megaverse lost from its main body. Now the heroes must keep the shifter alive and secret while following clues from the vauge memories of Eylor about how to find his home dimension. Getting the shifter there will be enough for Eylor to get back so it can wake up thus waking up all his eyes. This will be followed by complete havoc in Atlantis and other Splynn run worlds and their main source of biowizardy components turns against them. Archie can then swoop in and begin the clean up.

[TechnoGothic]

i'd play a Mulka RCC from the Manhunter Dimension book.
Overthrow, Take Back ... Whatever amuses me at the moment.

[cornholioprime]

Does anyone think it is plausible for a group of players to overthrow / retake Atlantis? I expect there would be allies like the TA clans obviously assisting and maybe others, but which others besides the TA could the Players convince and with good reason why they should?

No.

Splynncryth's Atlantis is like North America's Coalition States, only with about a thousand times the Author Immunity.

The only power blocs in the entire Megaverse who could, collectively, take back Atlantis from the Splugorth are either concerned with local threats of their own (e.g., rival, balanced pantheons who would promptly destroy their foes if they weakened themselves in fighting the Splugorth), don't really give a damn about Rifts Earth, and probably will NEVER ally themselves together in sufficient numbers to take down the Splugorth for any threat or foe short of the Old Ones themselves.

What LOTS and LOTS of fans and players don't seem to understand about the Splugorth is that, as written up in the grand scheme of things, the other Megaversal Powers don't really see them as being that much of a threat and therefore aren't going to get their hands dirty or stick their necks out just to take Atlantis back.

[Giant2005]

If everyone on Earth ganged up on Atlantis, they could take it back. Splynn could easily destroy every power bloc on Earth single-handedly but he wouldn't. It would cost him too many troops and he isn't stupid enough to do that. If everyone on Earth teamed up against him he would pack up and leave without conflict.
A month later he would be back though and anyone foolish enough to be sitting in Atlantis at the time would be obliterated, then he would commit a little genocide against one or two of the nations who decided to pick a fight as a deterrent for future attacks.

[DBX]

Old Splynny won't be on his own, if splugorth hold of Atlantis was ever in question. Other Splugorth Lords will help me if he needs it.

That doesn't mean other splugorths won't like to get Atlantis for themselves but they won't do that at the risk of losing Atlantis to non splugorths. Splugorths would like to keep Atlantis under splugortian control because in the future Atlantis will make Centre look like a watering hole in the middle of nowhere

[cornholioprime]

If everyone on Earth ganged up on Atlantis, they could take it back. Splynn could easily destroy every power bloc on Earth single-handedly but he wouldn't. It would cost him too many troops and he isn't stupid enough to do that. If everyone on Earth teamed up against him he would pack up and leave without conflict.
A month later he would be back though and anyone foolish enough to be sitting in Atlantis at the time would be obliterated, then he would commit a little genocide against one or two of the nations who decided to pick a fight as a deterrent for future attacks.

There is, by a VERY rough guesstimate, somewhere around 100 to 150 million people on the entire planet (including D-Bees), TOPS. Hell, let's say 200 million just for grins and giggles.

MOST of which are unarmed civilians.

Meanwhile, the population of JUST Atlantis is around 90 million, VIRTUALLY ALL of which are armed to some capacity or other (and that's just to stay alive on the streets of Splynn without becoming the slave or dinner of something more powerful than they).


And that's just the garrison force, a tiny outpost compared to everything that Splynncryth can bring to the table all by himself.


So, no.
Sorry.
The Writers have rendered him effectively invincible by just about anything short of Hel's unleashing of the Mechanoids upon the Megaverse or Ahriman figuring out how to duplicate the Great Cataclysm.


He is, as Rallan said somewhere else in another Thread, a plot device...a plot device about as vulnerable to being taken down by Player Characters as Takhisis is of being defeated by Tasslehoff Burrfoot.

[TechnoGothic]

There is alot more than 200 million humans on earth in Rifts.
I would be willing to bet there is Billions once again + Debees of all kinds.

[Nether]

Old Splynny won't be on his own, if splugorth hold of Atlantis was ever in question. Other Splugorth Lords will help me if he needs it.

That doesn't mean other splugorths won't like to get Atlantis for themselves but they won't do that at the risk of losing Atlantis to non splugorths. Splugorths would like to keep Atlantis under splugortian control because in the future Atlantis will make Centre look like a watering hole in the middle of nowhere

I would have to disagree with Splugorth helping each other out in said endeavors. Prime example and almost same situation is in Centre level 3. The Splugorth there has wanted centre for ages and then when he thought he had a chance he made a play for it. Not "ONE" splugorth came to help him take it, and in actuallity they now all laugh and mock him endlessly because he failed.

I don't think Atlantis would be any different. Splynn would recieve no help from other splugorth. Now that doesn't change the fact that Atlantis has **** tonnes of uber tough peeps on it though.

[Nether]

If everyone on Earth ganged up on Atlantis, they could take it back. Splynn could easily destroy every power bloc on Earth single-handedly but he wouldn't. It would cost him too many troops and he isn't stupid enough to do that. If everyone on Earth teamed up against him he would pack up and leave without conflict.
A month later he would be back though and anyone foolish enough to be sitting in Atlantis at the time would be obliterated, then he would commit a little genocide against one or two of the nations who decided to pick a fight as a deterrent for future attacks.

Just the first two paragraphs are directed to you Giant,

Also Splynn doesn't really give a crap about sacrificing a chunk of troops to take something he wants. The gains of taking say any of the other super nexuses around the earth would give him more gain and outway the cost of some troops, even if it was millions. He doesn't care about them, but he would care about if it left him vulnerable to attack from another power block. But if he was concerned about that, then he can't have great enough forces in the first place.

"IF" you could get Splynn out of Atlantis, i don't see him just coming back shortly after to retake. Reasons is the Pyramids would now be controlled by the takers (hopefully TA + a few other decent folk) and without them he can't port his forces in. He would have to literally get a fleet togather and fly on over. Not that difficult for them, but then you have all the anti invasion aspects of Rifts earth from Inca's to mass defenses sitting in orbit ext.

Also if you could infiltrate the nexus points and take control of them, you have effectively cut off any additional forces he could marshal in.

As for the numbers in Atlantis, those numbers are based on the vast amount of consumers who would most likely not get involved, or would help cause confusion as they took opportunity to smash, grab and dash. Good aligned peeps in Atlantis are only found as slaves or the rare infiltrator / impersonator.

Then you have the masses of slaves in Atlantis, free them and you have just increased your forces x Fold with also some pretty potent population. I could see TA giving them santuary and a new home if they could take Atlantis back. It always came across very Spartacus like when i first read Atlantis. And who ever would have even contemplated that back in Roman days that such a thing could have ever happened.

Not everyone needs to have a piece of Atlantis either to make it beneficial for them to attack, ie CS, NGR, NN as just wiping them off the face of the earth is enough.

Now if Splynn controlled the Earth or just a large chunk of it, with also fleet in orbit then he would be able to call upon his vast forces for sure, but that isn't the case here at all.

Also i've never said i was looking for a easy way, as it wasn't expected to be easy, but is it plausible with some planning and say culmination of a couple campaigns?

So looking just at the Atlantis book, you have a approximation of 40 mil splugorth minions vs approx 30 mil in slaves, not including if a portion of the 6 mil altara women would revolt ext. Then it would come down to making up the diff with assaulting forces + difference in quality of attacker to defender.

Are the blind warrior women from the Altara galactic empire? If they are possible adv hook for ally assistance.

The vamp intelligences are considered rivals to the splugorth. Another adv hook of possibly offering them a shot at splynncrest, which would also remove him from the initial battle if you could succeed in setting that up.

It would be a huge deal to take back Atlantis, that i understand if even viable, but i can see some plausible options for it to happen.

Am i the only one that thinks it could happen, and not with "all" the super powers of rifts earth involved?

It also says in the description for Atlantis that they are not capable of taking the rest of Rifts Earth.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

and even if he was somehow pushed off atltantis , he would lines tickets sales for the grand re-taking of atlantis and he would take it back.

[Dustin Fireblade]

There is, by a VERY rough guesstimate, somewhere around 100 to 150 million people on the entire planet (including D-Bees), TOPS. Hell, let's say 200 million just for grins and giggles.

MOST of which are unarmed civilians.

Well just point of order, the NGR has 90 million people all it's own (page 42 of NGR 2), "Lower Africa" also has 94 million people (page 112 of Africa) as well. Start adding in North and South America and it will shoot up more.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

If everyone on Earth ganged up on Atlantis, they could take it back. Splynn could easily destroy every power bloc on Earth single-handedly but he wouldn't. It would cost him too many troops and he isn't stupid enough to do that. If everyone on Earth teamed up against him he would pack up and leave without conflict.
A month later he would be back though and anyone foolish enough to be sitting in Atlantis at the time would be obliterated, then he would commit a little genocide against one or two of the nations who decided to pick a fight as a deterrent for future attacks.

There is, by a VERY rough guesstimate, somewhere around 100 to 150 million people on the entire planet (including D-Bees), TOPS. Hell, let's say 200 million just for grins and giggles.

MOST of which are unarmed civilians.

Meanwhile, the population of JUST Atlantis is around 90 million, VIRTUALLY ALL of which are armed to some capacity or other (and that's just to stay alive on the streets of Splynn without becoming the slave or dinner of something more powerful than they).


And that's just the garrison force, a tiny outpost compared to everything that Splynncryth can bring to the table all by himself.


So, no.
Sorry.
The Writers have rendered him effectively invincible by just about anything short of Hel's unleashing of the Mechanoids upon the Megaverse or Ahriman figuring out how to duplicate the Great Cataclysm.


He is, as Rallan said somewhere else in another Thread, a plot device...a plot device about as vulnerable to being taken down by Player Characters as Takhisis is of being defeated by Tasslehoff Burrfoot.

dont we talk about about 6-7 yrs ago

[Nether]

and even if he was somehow pushed off atltantis , he would lines tickets sales for the grand re-taking of atlantis and he would take it back.

And how would he be able to take it back once invaders moved in and took over the Rifts?

[cornholioprime]

There is, by a VERY rough guesstimate, somewhere around 100 to 150 million people on the entire planet (including D-Bees), TOPS. Hell, let's say 200 million just for grins and giggles.

MOST of which are unarmed civilians.

Well just point of order, the NGR has 90 million people all it's own (page 42 of NGR 2), "Lower Africa" also has 94 million people (page 112 of Africa) as well. Start adding in North and South America and it will shoot up more.

Good (and I mean that; thanks for looking that up; I can't get to my books).

Now we're talking about, what 200 million?
250 million??
300 million or even more??

In light of the fact that the vast majority of them are unarmed and/or trained poorly if at all, AND that the piddling amount of firepower that Splynncryth has on Atlantis is only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of his might, the point of the Splugorth's author-created invincibility (at least on Atlantis) remains the same.


Rifts Earth is in JUST as hopeless a situation now in a fight against Splynncryth let alone the Splugorth collectively as it would be even if there were still eight billion people on the planet all armed to the teeth in Golden Age weaponry.

[Giant2005]

If everyone on Earth ganged up on Atlantis, they could take it back. Splynn could easily destroy every power bloc on Earth single-handedly but he wouldn't. It would cost him too many troops and he isn't stupid enough to do that. If everyone on Earth teamed up against him he would pack up and leave without conflict.
A month later he would be back though and anyone foolish enough to be sitting in Atlantis at the time would be obliterated, then he would commit a little genocide against one or two of the nations who decided to pick a fight as a deterrent for future attacks.

There is, by a VERY rough guesstimate, somewhere around 100 to 150 million people on the entire planet (including D-Bees), TOPS. Hell, let's say 200 million just for grins and giggles.

MOST of which are unarmed civilians.

Meanwhile, the population of JUST Atlantis is around 90 million, VIRTUALLY ALL of which are armed to some capacity or other (and that's just to stay alive on the streets of Splynn without becoming the slave or dinner of something more powerful than they).


And that's just the garrison force, a tiny outpost compared to everything that Splynncryth can bring to the table all by himself.


So, no.
Sorry.
The Writers have rendered him effectively invincible by just about anything short of Hel's unleashing of the Mechanoids upon the Megaverse or Ahriman figuring out how to duplicate the Great Cataclysm.


He is, as Rallan said somewhere else in another Thread, a plot device...a plot device about as vulnerable to being taken down by Player Characters as Takhisis is of being defeated by Tasslehoff Burrfoot.

In canon Splynn has force enough to conquer all of Rifts Earth but he doesn't because due to the weakening of his army there is no chance he could hold it for very long. If all of those forces took the fight to him it would have the same outcome - he could defeat them but it would weaken him to an unacceptable level. That is canon.
Splynn is smarter than that, rather than let himself get that weak, leaving without contest only to return and reclaim his land and then make sure such an attack could not be replicated is exactly what he would do.
He doesn't care about the loss of each individual life in his army, but he sure does care about losing enough lives to leave him vulnerable specially if he knows he doesn't have to.

[Giant2005]

and even if he was somehow pushed off atltantis , he would lines tickets sales for the grand re-taking of atlantis and he would take it back.

And how would he be able to take it back once invaders moved in and took over the Rifts?

The pyramids are a benefit but Splynn has magic enough that he doesn't need them. He could just Rift his forces in the old fashioned way.

[Nether]

There is, by a VERY rough guesstimate, somewhere around 100 to 150 million people on the entire planet (including D-Bees), TOPS. Hell, let's say 200 million just for grins and giggles.

MOST of which are unarmed civilians.

Well just point of order, the NGR has 90 million people all it's own (page 42 of NGR 2), "Lower Africa" also has 94 million people (page 112 of Africa) as well. Start adding in North and South America and it will shoot up more.

Good (and I mean that; thanks for looking that up; I can't get to my books).

Now we're talking about, what 200 million?
250 million??
300 million or even more??

In light of the fact that the vast majority of them are unarmed and/or trained poorly if at all, AND that the piddling amount of firepower that Splynncryth has on Atlantis is only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of his might, the point of the Splugorth's author-created invincibility (at least on Atlantis) remains the same.


Rifts Earth is in JUST as hopeless a situation now in a fight against Splynncryth let alone the Splugorth collectively as it would be even if there were still eight billion people on the planet all armed to the teeth in Golden Age weaponry.

Again i seriosly doubt that any other splugorth would help splynncrest one iota. I base this off the very simular story of lord klynncryth of center. Center is faaaaar more valluable and desired than rifts earth by a long shot, and if the splugorth wouldnt help him get that then they wouldnt raise a tentacle or fart ink to help splynncrest.

What are you basing your point on?

Splugorth share a empire divided amongst themselves, they arent buddy buddy, i watch your back you watch mine, and no free handouts, they have to show they can do things themselves and get thier own power. Much like star wars hutts.

Also solely based on the Atlantis book, the splugort outnumber the slaves by about 10 mil give or take, which can also be affected on either side depending on story. So if you had say CS, NGR and New Navy with TA clans commit to war on Atlantis, i think they would have the numbers and military might to push Splynn out, though that is also with the req that the pyramid nexuses get taken and controlled right away to stop any reinforcements from coming in. You could also change this up as needed with other allies, but would not take all the super powers of earth to do.

[Lenwen]

I am curious to how such a feat could be done, and all the peeps here could prolly put a good strategy or two togather to how it could work.

I would also use ideas here for my game.

Theorycraft away.

Considering .. its canon that Atlantis could literally conquer rifts earth ..

There is no force currently in any books .. combined or solo .. (about rifts earth) who would be able to take back Atlantis ..

But I will enjoy this thread none the less .

[Nether]

If everyone on Earth ganged up on Atlantis, they could take it back. Splynn could easily destroy every power bloc on Earth single-handedly but he wouldn't. It would cost him too many troops and he isn't stupid enough to do that. If everyone on Earth teamed up against him he would pack up and leave without conflict.
A month later he would be back though and anyone foolish enough to be sitting in Atlantis at the time would be obliterated, then he would commit a little genocide against one or two of the nations who decided to pick a fight as a deterrent for future attacks.

There is, by a VERY rough guesstimate, somewhere around 100 to 150 million people on the entire planet (including D-Bees), TOPS. Hell, let's say 200 million just for grins and giggles.

MOST of which are unarmed civilians.

Meanwhile, the population of JUST Atlantis is around 90 million, VIRTUALLY ALL of which are armed to some capacity or other (and that's just to stay alive on the streets of Splynn without becoming the slave or dinner of something more powerful than they).


And that's just the garrison force, a tiny outpost compared to everything that Splynncryth can bring to the table all by himself.


So, no.
Sorry.
The Writers have rendered him effectively invincible by just about anything short of Hel's unleashing of the Mechanoids upon the Megaverse or Ahriman figuring out how to duplicate the Great Cataclysm.


He is, as Rallan said somewhere else in another Thread, a plot device...a plot device about as vulnerable to being taken down by Player Characters as Takhisis is of being defeated by Tasslehoff Burrfoot.

In canon Splynn has force enough to conquer all of Rifts Earth but he doesn't because due to the weakening of his army there is no chance he could hold it for very long. If all of those forces took the fight to him it would have the same outcome - he could defeat them but it would weaken him to an unacceptable level. That is canon.
Splynn is smarter than that, rather than let himself get that weak, leaving without contest only to return and reclaim his land and then make sure such an attack could not be replicated is exactly what he would do.
He doesn't care about the loss of each individual life in his army, but he sure does care about losing enough lives to leave him vulnerable specially if he knows he doesn't have to.

Atlantis page 18 third paragraph says that it would not be feasible to try and take Earth.

[Lenwen]

Again i seriosly doubt that any other splugorth would help splynncrest one iota.

There would be no need ..

Lord Splynn has multiple worlds ..

Billions tens of billions heck probably .. hundreds of billions .. Kydians ..

Billions of Kittani .. (he personally saved this entire race)

As was stated previously .. Even if Rifts earth was in a second Golden age .. with higher tech then what Atlantis personally has ..

There would still be no way Earth would stand a chance against Lord Splynn's Billions upon Billions upon Billions strong Military ..

[Lenwen]

Atlantis page 18 third paragraph says that it would not be feasible to try and take Earth.

Wrong ..

It says its not feasible to take and "HOLD" .. Earth ..

Taking it would not be the issue ..

Holding it would be ..

[Nether]

Atlantis page 18 third paragraph says that it would not be feasible to try and take Earth.

Wrong ..

It says its not feasible to take and "HOLD" .. Earth ..

Taking it would not be the issue ..

Holding it would be ..

My point still stands valid and correct even if i didn't quote the sentence as i did provide the exact location, (which also i believe forum rules doesn't want you quoting i think) and when they say he can't hold it, that would suggest that he would not be wiping out the super powers of earth's military/powers at all, but he would be able to plant flags of Splynncrest all around the globe until all the supers retaliated. Even then it doesn't say it would take all of them at once to do it either. I am also extrapolating that CS, NGR, Empires ext would be considered the big "powers" mentioned as i'm not aware of many "tough like spluggorth" type powers that covet the earth besides the big guy of the deep and the horsemen.

Also i believe i read somewhere that Splynncrest owned 3 planets, but don't have source atm.

Edit: yes splynn only owns 3 planets, which is said on that same page. So not billions upon billions which is a gross exageration. Not to say 3 planets isn't plenty either though.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

and even if he was somehow pushed off atltantis , he would lines tickets sales for the grand re-taking of atlantis and he would take it back.

And how would he be able to take it back once invaders moved in and took over the Rifts?

with drama and suspense and a big pay day behind it

[Lenwen]

Atlantis page 18 third paragraph says that it would not be feasible to try and take Earth.

Wrong ..

It says its not feasible to take and "HOLD" .. Earth ..

Taking it would not be the issue ..

Holding it would be ..

My point still stands valid and correct even if i didn't quote the sentence

No your point does not stand. You said they could not take the earth. as seen in your above quote.

Atlantis could easily TAKE .. the earth ..

Holding it is where they would be in trouble ..

[Lenwen]

and even if he was somehow pushed off atltantis , he would lines tickets sales for the grand re-taking of atlantis and he would take it back.

And how would he be able to take it back once invaders moved in and took over the Rifts?

The pyramids are a benefit but Splynn has magic enough that he doesn't need them. He could just Rift his forces in the old fashioned way.

Not to mention just rift a couple starships in .. use thier mass drivers .. pulverize atlantis till no life exsists on it ..

Port back in .. with ground troops .. mop up anything what so ever left ..

Then just go out and rebuild it how it was .. or grander ..

[Shark_Force]

big difference between "splynncryth won't take over everything because that will get his old enemies to show up and cause him trouble" vs "splynncryth won't take over everything because the places he conquers would leave him too weak".

don't get confused; against just the stuff on rifts earth, no problem. that's not a listed reason for splynncryth to hold back. the reason is that he would have to deal with *other* enemies. for example, if he was to seriously go for it, he'd likely have to worry about forces from all the various pantheons of deities that have followers on earth. not to mention enemies and competitors like the naruni, or the vampire entities that at least likely had a foothold before the cataclysm, and all the various demons that have established kingdoms. then you've got various other organisations that might be able to call in allies, the gargoyle and brodkil kingdoms (who instead of having to defend against constant raiding are instead a constant supply of income and entertainment), and so forth. you've got the nazca, and any of their friends who might want to show up as well, the phoenix empire, zazshan, etc...

basically, as it stands right now, the splugorth loosely control one small chunk of land. if anyone wants to set up shop on rifts earth, it seriously isn't much harder than opening a rift, sticking a flag in the ground, and saying "this territory is mine now" in one of the many wilderness areas. right now, there's tons of prime real estate up for grabs on rifts earth, so his economic competitors (those who would want territory on rifts earth because it is like a gateway to the megaverse) have no reason to go after the heavily defended and controlled regions when there is so much open space. additionally, because he's not actually an immediate threat that could destroy any pantheon's entire base of worshippers on rifts earth, none of the gods are going to feel particularly compelled to bring in more of their minions to invade atlantis... which is in fact territory that they don't really want in the first place. and even if they did take it and hold it, since splynncryth only wants a chunk of the planet, he could easily just step into some other open space; in order to actually keep splynncryth away, you would have to secure the entire planet, and nobody cares enough to do that. but if splynncryth threatens to take out their base of power? you bet they won't take that easily.

on the other hand, if it was a situation where all the nations of rifts earth were to actually align against splynncryth (an event which is already so absurdly unlikely as to be essentially meaningless), it seems doubtful that it would involve all of the deities with worshipers on rifts earth would send in the minions, nor would splynn's economic competitors be likely to commit much (there's no profit margin in being the warring nation, only in selling to them), and so forth.

in short, while splynncryth may not be able to take and hold the entire thing without being more trouble than it's worth, it's entirely different to claim he can't defend his territory.

[Nether]

After relooking at the stats of Splynncrest, his minions (splynn dimensional market minions included) and tech stats, plus listed populations, and some points made here i am inclined to concede that it wouldn't even be remotely possible to take Atlantis back. The minions alone are far stronger than the average "normal" trooper for CS, NGR ext, and even the more powerful individuals out there just can't compare to the overall might. Then Kitanni tech which hasn't recieved any updates or revisions 'yet' like the CS and now Triax, which is also suppose to be superior to them would also give them a big edge i'm thinking.

Then on top you have the rule of 10 attackers to 1 fortified defender rule which would be used loosely in this setting would be much higher ratio due to the superior strength of Atlantis.

I was hoping to drive a campaign in this direction and held out hope that maybe some posters could enlighten some possible ways to do it but as it turns out i have to agree with sentiments here, it would take a ridiculous alliance which is more unlikely to happen than taking Atlantis.
And don't get me wrong, i do absolutely love Atlantis and it's current situation at it is one of my fave books, but the group has had alot of adv dealing with it and was contemplating if a campaign to take it would be viable.

Final thought;
On the other hand after relooking at the books, i am left with the impression that Splynn really could just take Rifts Earth without to much problems. I don't even see it as denting his forces that heavily as he can call in alot from his other 3 planets as needed on top of what is there already. Atm i also don't see any plausible retaliation to stop him, even from mentioned pantheons ext as they would need alliances to do it and would keeping the earth out of Splynn's hands really be enough reason to commit to such a act, and if the Earth was that important to the bigger forces, they would've done something about it by now i'm thinking.

So thx for all the constructive responses everyone.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

Really, outside of rampant B.S. and serious hard-core munchkining, no player group will have the power or influence necessary to pull off a stunt of such magnitude. It was kind of designed that way. Atlantis is pretty much a forlorn hope.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

the best groups who might have a chance of taking on atltantis on arent going to do it

[csbioborg]

If everyone on Earth ganged up on Atlantis, they could take it back. Splynn could easily destroy every power bloc on Earth single-handedly but he wouldn't. It would cost him too many troops and he isn't stupid enough to do that. If everyone on Earth teamed up against him he would pack up and leave without conflict.
A month later he would be back though and anyone foolish enough to be sitting in Atlantis at the time would be obliterated, then he would commit a little genocide against one or two of the nations who decided to pick a fight as a deterrent for future attacks.

There is, by a VERY rough guesstimate, somewhere around 100 to 150 million people on the entire planet (including D-Bees), TOPS. Hell, let's say 200 million just for grins and giggles.

MOST of which are unarmed civilians.

Meanwhile, the population of JUST Atlantis is around 90 million, VIRTUALLY ALL of which are armed to some capacity or other (and that's just to stay alive on the streets of Splynn without becoming the slave or dinner of something more powerful than they).


And that's just the garrison force, a tiny outpost compared to everything that Splynncryth can bring to the table all by himself.


So, no.
Sorry.
The Writers have rendered him effectively invincible by just about anything short of Hel's unleashing of the Mechanoids upon the Megaverse or Ahriman figuring out how to duplicate the Great Cataclysm.


He is, as Rallan said somewhere else in another Thread, a plot device...a plot device about as vulnerable to being taken down by Player Characters as Takhisis is of being defeated by Tasslehoff Burrfoot.

to be fair Tasslehoff Burrfoot defeated a much stronger god than takhisis in single combat admitedly dying in the process.

[DBX]

i believe original phaseworld book does say that Splugorths can and do form alliances.

[Nightmask]

i believe original phaseworld book does say that Splugorths can and do form alliances.

So a possible 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' moment where the PC end up having to perhaps deal with another evil force in hopes of eliminating the one already on Earth and maybe if the bargain is good enough it won't decide to just take over and set up shop with 'same shop new management'.

[DBX]

splugorths can and do form alliances with each other and non-splugorths. However those wise in the way of splugorths know that a splugorth always tries to get the better deal of a partnership. if it sees weakness it will pounce and seize the opportunity to get an even better deal. ignornat splugorths and non splugorths allied to a splugorth who make this mistake rarely get a second chance to learn from their error.


the sunaj clan are in partnership with Splynncryth. They arrogantly think they can seize Atlantis from him but Splynncryth is waiting for their betrayal.

the splugorth lords have tried to conquer Phaseworld numerous times individually, but after several such failures i think that a splugorthian alliance would have made at least one concerted attempt to take Phaseworld.

Losing around half a dozen Splugorths (most likely splugorth lords of powerful empires in these futile campiagns)
the wiser splugorth lords accepted that they couldn't capture phaseworld for now, and settled to have a market there.

The splugorths lords won't back another splugorth trying his luck agaisnt phaseworld unless its virtually guarnteed to succeed. They have been burnt enough times by Phaseworld to let foolish splugorths go their own way, and its because they can't control Centre that the Splugorths as a whole don't want to risk losing Atlantis to non-splugorths. They joined Centre but expect to beat it with Atlantis.

rival splugorths would love to wrestle Atlantis away from Splynncrythh but only if it came under the control of their own empire, and not at the expense of bring known as the splugorth lord who handed Atlantis to non-splugorths