Lvl 15 Ley Line Walker vs. Glitter Boy

[Proseksword]

I am a Level 15 Ley Line Walker.

For the sake of this exercise, I know all Invocations, have maximum possible P.P.E., and the battle takes place upon a Ley Line.

Keeping in mind the following requirements:

1 - I must kill the Glitter Boy pilot
2 - For whatever reason, I cannot simply wait for the Glitter Boy pilot to get out of his suit. I will assign an arbitrary time limit for the killing of the Glitter Boy pilot of six hours.
3 - I do not necessarily have to destroy the suit, but I must kill the pilot without him getting out of his own volition.
4 - The Glitter Boy is on a hilltop clearing, roughly 500 ft in diameter, surrounded by woodlands.

How do I kill this guy?

I'm interested in hearing all ideas and options.

[Galroth]

I am a Level 15 Ley Line Walker.

For the sake of this exercise, I know all Invocations, have maximum possible P.P.E., and the battle takes place upon a Ley Line.

Keeping in mind the following requirements:

1 - I must kill the Glitter Boy pilot
2 - For whatever reason, I cannot simply wait for the Glitter Boy pilot to get out of his suit. I will assign an arbitrary time limit for the killing of the Glitter Boy pilot of six hours.
3 - I do not necessarily have to destroy the suit, but I must kill the pilot without him getting out of his own volition.
4 - The Glitter Boy is on a hilltop clearing, roughly 500 ft in diameter, surrounded by woodlands.

How do I kill this guy?

I'm interested in hearing all ideas and options.

Are both Human or are other races being considered?

[Proseksword]

For now, let's say both are human to avoid any rather outlandish combinations. I'm much more interested in what a Ley Line Walker can do than what a particular race can do.

[Giant2005]

It all depends on what spells he has available...
If the following spells are available, he could simply use 4D Transformation, step into the 4th dimension where he is undetectable, cast Armor of Ithan (or Armor of Neptune if he knows it) on himself, move close to the GB and step back into the 3rd dimension. From there, combat begins. LLW wins initiative due to being a 4d being and casts carpet of adhesion. The GB attacks but is unable to kill the LLW. After winning initiative again, the LLW instantly teleports behind the GB and proceeds to kill him with whatever offensive magic he prefers. If the GB isn't dead by the time CoH wears off, the LLW can simply repeat the process.

[Proseksword]

How long do you have to prepare? Is that what the 6 hours is for? What gear do you have?

The six hours may be used to cast whatever spells or rituals you feel would benefit. It does not grant you infinite money to purchase supplies. Assume the Ley Line Walker's equipment is good, but nothing outlandish - a TW Rifle and TW Sword, basic MDC body armor, some talismans and basically anything that you'd expect a mid-to-high level mage to have onhand without getting into Rune Sword/Legendary Item territory.

15th level means the 1.2 ton Glitter Boy can be affected by the featherlight spell, which has no save. It can then be affected by fingers of the wind, which also has no save. I don't really know where to go from there, but there must be something.

I don't know if that achieves my goal, but it is hilarious!

[Shark_Force]

invisibility:superior to get close. (15 PPE)

magic net from behind: no dodge because he is unaware of the attack (7 PPE)

at this point, barring questionable tactics (featherweight + teleport: lesser on the glitter boy's suit, for example, to avoid damaging the armor so that you can resell it), it doesn't really matter much how you continue the fight, since you've got 7 and a half minutes to finish him off.

personally, i'd likely include compulsions to remove all armor, and surrender (this should make the killing part even easier, since he will be completely unarmed and unarmored) which is not blocked by armor (the default is that robot vehicles and other vehicles will block spells, but not power armor, which the glitter boy is classified as). other options include agony (to render him helpless even without the net) or mindshatter to make him helpless, followed by killing in whatever way you feel like. (another option is to spam soultwist on the target until he has taken enough damage to die from it, again without damaging that nice shiny armor)

for the sake of argument, in 6 hours i figure the level 15 ley line walker will have some rapid means of transportation enabling access to a ley line, full charging up of self (and overloading) + energy sphere, plus possibly even making a few scrolls or talismans if so desired (in my case, not really needed, but likely to be done just as a precaution; and hey, if you don't need the scroll/talisman, you can always save them for later!). if nothing else, i would say the ley line walker should be assumed to have *some* scrolls/talismans of common low-level spells (mostly defensive, i guess). otherwise, i'm assuming we're not giving any special stuff to either side beyond basic starting gear (if there was added stuff, i figure it would be mentioned in the OP).

[Mack]

Magic Net should prevent the GB from aiming the Boom Gun, and you can cast it in a single action. Then add Carpet of Adhesion for obvious reasons.

Between the two of those he should be easy to finish. Just don't let him get a shot off at you.

[Mack]

Magic Net should prevent the GB from aiming the Boom Gun, and you can cast it in a single action. Then add Carpet of Adhesion for obvious reasons.

Between the two of those he should be easy to finish. Just don't let him get a shot off at you.

And for a follow-up...

Teleport: Lesser works on up to 50 lbs of material, such as three heavy Fusion Blocks (48 lbs) which will inflict 4D6x10x3 MD (an average of 420 points). And it only costs 15 PPE. Two applications should suffice.

Or if you want to do it in a single attack, use Teleport: Superior use can move up to 1000 lbs of explosives (way more than you need) but it's going to cost you 600 PPE.

EDIT - or another approach: Mindshatter (Book of Magic, p142) is not restricted by power armor. Just have to get within touch range, which Magic Net will allow.

[FuduVudu]

Cast ley line phantom (20 ppe for ley line wizards)

spend the 2 ppe to which makes everyone within 100 feet of you hear you clearly no matter what.

Use ley line transmission and then float over to the guy from his blind spot cast deathword(70PPE) 4d6+1d6x30(double damage since you are on a ley line) direct to hit points no save since he can hear you clearly double if the guy doesn't see you coming and the gm allows you to phase through his armor (you are intangible) and whisper it in his ear.

He would have to be the toughest mofo in the world to have enough hitpoints to survive the effects of the spell.

[Chronicle]

A leyline walker of that level should also have an arsonal of defensive spells which can add up to more MDC then the GB, couple that with Gear accumulated over time and having access to a leyline to boot. Leyline teleportation and hit skips should wear the GB down fast, and given the GB is more toughly about 10' tall, carpet the bugger and port behind him, start casting anhilate (good damage for a target that size and 50% more with leyline, its a 2 shot since it is cheaper for Ley Line Walkers to cast that spell.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. Well, originally I was going to chime in with Deathword, but I was beaten to it so I just didn't post. Yet, I couldn't get this thread out of my head. If I was going to post, I wanted to do something different and worth while. So, I decided to see what I could do with a Level 1 Ley Line Walker (though built solely for this exercise) vs. the Glitterboy. Now, the hardest part will be getting close without getting my head blasted off. This is quite tricky.

Disclaimer: I don't play Rifts (much, and what I do is so heavily homebrewed it's not even really Rifts), and I've only played a Psi-Mystic (PF) for like 2 or 3 games, so I haven't really played a magic user much and my experience is limited. Still, this is what I came up with. If I get something wrong, please feel free to correct me.

Safe to say I'm going to start off supercharging (x3 PPE), so that I can be sure I have enough PPE for whatever arises.

I looked at Invisitiility: Simple, Cloak of Darkness, Shadow Meld, etc. But one major problem with all of them, the Glitterboy has thermal optics (standard equipment lists it as a 1600 ft/488 m range, even if the Glitterboy's range is further it doesn't matter, the point is he'll see me from pretty far) and that means it can (if using them) detect me. This will definitely make it trickier. Sure I can use one of these (and probably would too) and hope the Glitterboy either isn't using his thermal optics and/or fails his sensor rolls, but I can't I count on that so I'm going to need to count on him detecting me (hope he doesn't, but plan for the worst).

Note: I had also considered casting Fire Bolt or Fireblast from far enough away to start the forest on fire. Fuel Flame to help it spread, and Impervious to Fire to protect me from the flames. This could give enough heat that he'll never detect me, but in the end I'm STILL going to need to get close, and once I do there's a chance he'll detect me due to the clearing. This would also give away any chance I have for a surprise.

I was trying to use just R:UE, but unfortunately I also had to use BoM for some added spell arsenal. Now, with R:UE, I can only have spells up to level 4. So if I get hit, I'm going to want to survive. Yes, there's the GI Joe rule, but I won't count on that either. Level 4 Spell: Energy Field. This will give me 120 MDC protection (doubled at a ley line), and with my Medium Concealed Ley Line Armor I have another 50+ MDC. This should let me survive at least one attack (unless I'm really unlucky) if worst comes to worst. I'd also like Ley Line Force Field (ability #9; for an extra 20 MDC), but not sure if that can stack. Regardless, I should be able to take one (or more) shots from the Glitterboy.

My next trick is to cast Chromatic Protection on myself. This will help prevent the Glitterboy hitting me (if he doesn't save and/or get really lucky on some wild shot). Now I'm also doing this out of the Glitterboy sensor range, because he has a 2 mile range on that gun and I don't want to risk getting blasted before I'm ready. I can take one hit, and the moment he even targets me he'll need to make a save vs. magic (should he fail he'll be blinded). I'm also invisible (simple) in the hopes he doesn't pass thermal optics (though with all the glowing armor it's probably going to tip me off anyways, still he might also suffer a wild shot if he can't see me clearly). I'm just being as safe as possible. As this is all done BEFORE I'm even entering combat. Invisibility first (using LeyLine energy), then Energy Field and Chromatic Protection off ley line energy. (Force Field last, if it stacks, because this will stop me from using Ley Line energy, but should still leave me with my full x3 PPE pool).

Note: This is the end of my Book of Magic spells. Everything else should be found in R:UE.

Now I'm ready to make my move. Ley Line Phasing (Teleportation) to get behind the Glitterboy (30 feet, so I have some room). I should surprise him (just appearing out of nowhere) if he even detects me at all. Even if somehow he's not surprised and detects me (and was looking behind him), he's still going to need to spend an action turning the Glitterboy around. If he hasn't readied his Boom Gun yet, I'd love to just Carpet Adhesion it to his back (so he can't ever fire it). If he had it ready (or for my next action after I've eliminted the Boom Gun), cast Carpet at his feet (to make it difficult to turn around)*. If he had it ready, won initiative, turned towards me, then this is where I'm really going to hope my defense holds up.

*Note: I know Magic Net can pin him MUCH better, but Magic Net would hinder another part of my plan so I'm relying just on Carpet.

Once I've limited his options (and hopefully pinned him), I'm Ley Line Phasing again to stay behind him. Now, I'm going to work on finishing him off. I'm going to cast Fear (this one isn't necessary, but I think it adds a nice touch) to freak him out. This is followed by Heavy Breathing (this one is important). Now the important thing is his Glitterboy is pinned! If he fails to save vs. Heavy Breathing there's a 60% chance he'll try to run (I cast Fear before this to make this all the more fearsome, but that's more of a flavor thing than game mechanic). Since he can't move the Glitterboy, the only way he could do that is if he gets out. If he saved (or didn't roll the 60%), repeat until he fails and tries to run. Heavy Breathing is a low PPE spell, so not much fear of running out of energy (especially on the Ley Line, and even if I have the Ley Line Force Field up I can drop it at this point).

Note: Getting him to flee is why I couldn't use Magic Net earlier.

Once he's out of the armor, this should be academic, especially since he probably dropped into the Carpet of Adhesion. Finish him off as you see fit. If you don't want to use a tech weapon, Orb of Cold can work. Not only does it inflict MD, but if he fails he'll suffer even more penalties, and if he attacks you (despite freaking out), I still have a good number of defenses up.

*Wipes forehead.* What do you think? I did my best to only use what a Level 1 Ley Line Walker would have.

Level 1 Spells: Whatever you want, though Blinding Flash and Thunderclap can help with various strategies I also considered.
Level 2 Spells: Fear, Heavy Breathing, plus one of choice.
Level 3 Spells: Invisibility: Simple, Orb of Cold, plus one of choice.
Level 4 Spells: Carpet of Adhesion, Chromatic Protection, and Energy Field.

Note: Of course, all this is for naught if the Glitterboy succeeded on his sensors, was totally prepped and ready to not be caught off guard the entire time, rolled well on initiative, and saved vs. every magic spell. At this point my plan has me dead more than likely. Though, that's bad luck and can you ever truly count on that? I think it's a fair strategy (given the situation), and the best I could come up with using only a Level 1 Ley Line Walker. If only some of these things went wrong, you can adjust the plan accordingly (even if it means retreating out of range, recharging energy, rebuffing, then trying again).

Sorry if that was long winded. Though I put some thought and wanted to run through some of the thought processes. For one more possibility (not level 1 LLW anymore, but just for some added variety), you can Summon Ley Line Storm as an option. Electromagnetic disturbances to screw with the tech? Then attack with bolts of ley line energy? Just another random thought.

Anyways, I think that's all for now. If there is some fatal flaw in my plan (beyond requiring some type of luck on my side) feel free to let me know. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys to all.

[psam_rage]

Teleport: Lesser works on up to 50 lbs of material, such as three heavy Fusion Blocks (48 lbs) which will inflict 4D6x10x3 MD (an average of 420 points). And it only costs 15 PPE. Two applications should suffice.

Or if you want to do it in a single attack, use Teleport: Superior use can move up to 1000 lbs of explosives (way more than you need) but it's going to cost you 600 PPE.

Uhm Great Idea but where/how did the LLW learn demolitions?
--- Also use a 50 pound block of NG 2 M.D. Plastique- its fairly common and cheap...ish, for a flat guaranteed 800 M.D. (Granted its blast is apparently very tiny.)

[Prysus]

P.S. For another alternative, how about just casting Invisible: Superior, walking up to the Glitterboy (you can Ley Line Phase if you're in a hurry), then opening the hatch manually? If locked, cast Escape (the spell opens a lock). Not the intended use of the spell, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Once the hatch is open, the pilot should be squishy goodness. Though I admit going into grappling range isn't necessarily the best idea, but at this point I'm aiming to be creative and just offer a variety. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys again.

[Shark_Force]

@prysus: it's a level *FIFTEEN* ley line walker. not limited to level 4 spells

i would say you could reasonably claim pretty much anything from levels 1-7 or thereabouts, a good chunk of 8-9, and just don't go too overboard on the level 10-15 spells (but guaranteed access to at least one of each level)

[Prysus]

@prysus: it's a level *FIFTEEN* ley line walker. not limited to level 4 spells

i would say you could reasonably claim pretty much anything from levels 1-7 or thereabouts, a good chunk of 8-9, and just don't go too overboard on the level 10-15 spells (but guaranteed access to at least one of each level)

Greetings and Salutations. Yes, I know what the assignment was. I think some of the posts in this thread have shown just how easy that can be though (especially since the original question said that you have ALL spells). So I wanted to do something a bit more challenging. As a result, I limited myself to something only a level 1 Ley Line Walker could do (and try to pull it off just to show the capabilities of character just starting off). Now if you think that the Level 1 strategy would never work, then feel free to rip it apart. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Giant2005]

Prysus there is a bit of a flaw in your plan.
Ley Line Phasing takes 1D4 melees to cast so you can't really do it in the middle of combat. Your plan relies entirely on you winning initiative and the initiative advantage falls heavily in the GB's favour.
In the likely case that the GB wins init, he is going to turn around before you cast CoH and you can't simply phase behind him again to try once more.

[Shark_Force]

@prysus: well, the main problem when limited to level 4 spells (and level 1 caster) is getting close enough to kick his butt.

anyways, chromatic protection only works on people within 10 feet... so, not likely to help. it also doesn't work if you attack him first. i'd recommend you use wave of frost to cover all his sensors in frost, which should give you (hopefully) enough time to get close and hit him with another attack.

thermal optics won't let you see through objects, so you can move in while his back is turned until you get to ~250 feet away (500 foot diameter clearing), taking cover as needed. depending on terrain within the clearing (if there are any ditches, mounds, tall grass, etc) you might be able to sneak closer, but for the sake of argument assume 250 feet. that means that you only have to go 30 feet in the open before landing your wave of frost.

based on the spell description, it should be 1 melee before the glitterboy can see you to shoot you, so that should give you some time.

and on a side note, as far as getting the glitter boy out of the suit... i don't think heavy breathing would work. it's possible (fear can make you do some pretty irrational things), but it seems like a glitterboy's fear response isn't likely to be "get out of my power armor"... most likely he'll struggle and try to run away while in the suit imo. if limited to level 4 spells, i'd try charismatic aura. power/fear might initially look tempting, but i think successful deception is the really good option in this case... "You need to trust me, your armor has been compromised by an evil wizard and you need to get out before it explodes" sounds like a fairly useful deception. (the "you need to trust me" bit is to trigger the spell as a deception ability). admittedly not as cheap as heavy breathing, but still a fairly easy spell to cast.

[The Galactus Kid]

Uhm Great Idea but where/how did the LLW learn demolitions?

A rogue scholar taught him.

[Shark_Force]

3 - I do not necessarily have to destroy the suit, but I must kill the pilot without him getting out of his own volition.

Just curious, but why not by his own chosing? If you could get him to get out of the suit, and kill him would it not achieve the same purpose?

i believe the intent is that your answer can't be "wait until he gets out of his suit and then kill him".

if you make that happen by, say, causing an allergic reaction to his armor, that would likely be fine. just so long as you're actively doing something that will cause him to get out of the suit.

[Mack]

Teleport: Lesser works on up to 50 lbs of material, such as three heavy Fusion Blocks (48 lbs) which will inflict 4D6x10x3 MD (an average of 420 points). And it only costs 15 PPE. Two applications should suffice.

Or if you want to do it in a single attack, use Teleport: Superior use can move up to 1000 lbs of explosives (way more than you need) but it's going to cost you 600 PPE.

Uhm Great Idea but where/how did the LLW learn demolitions?
--- Also use a 50 pound block of NG 2 M.D. Plastique- its fairly common and cheap...ish, for a flat guaranteed 800 M.D. (Granted its blast is apparently very tiny.)

Setting a kitchen timer shouldn't require the Demolitions skill.

Though I do like your NG Plastique suggestion.

[Shark_Force]

3 - I do not necessarily have to destroy the suit, but I must kill the pilot without him getting out of his own volition.

Just curious, but why not by his own chosing? If you could get him to get out of the suit, and kill him would it not achieve the same purpose?

i believe the intent is that your answer can't be "wait until he gets out of his suit and then kill him".

if you make that happen by, say, causing an allergic reaction to his armor, that would likely be fine. just so long as you're actively doing something that will cause him to get out of the suit.

I'd start teleporting in innocents and threatening to kill them while using them as shields, unless he comes out. If he comes out, kill him easy enough with a low level spell or a normal SD pistol. If not, kill the innocent and teleport in another. Rinse and repeat. By the second innocent, I'd start using children. If the Glitter Boy pilot could stomach six hours of kids getting killed, then my hat off to him.

ummm... there will either be about 6 seconds or 0 seconds, not 6 hours. either he has no problem with an innocent dying, he will shoot you, your innocent person's pitiful SDC isn't going to offer any protection, and there will be a gigantic hole where your torso used to be, or he will surrender. most likely the first, in my opinion... rifts is not a pleasant place, and i'm pretty sure he'll decide to shoot you (though he may try to avoid turning your hostage into a smear, i give that low odds of him succeeding)

this plan has gigantic holes all over the place, not least of which is how you managed to reach level 15 without every cyber-knight, hero, lawman, criminal, and ordinary person who has ever even heard of your existence wanting to kill you (there are limits to what even really horrible people will consider acceptable. at some point, all but the most comic-bookish of villains will just have a kill-on-sight policy when it comes to you, ranging from reasoning that they may be criminals, but they're not monsters, all the way up to the fact that the bounty (or, more likely, bounties) they could collect by killing you could finance a small army of minions.

so yeah, as far as i'm concerned... that plan needs to be scrapped.

[Prysus]

Prysus there is a bit of a flaw in your plan.
Ley Line Phasing takes 1D4 melees to cast so you can't really do it in the middle of combat. Your plan relies entirely on you winning initiative and the initiative advantage falls heavily in the GB's favour.
In the likely case that the GB wins init, he is going to turn around before you cast CoH and you can't simply phase behind him again to try once more.

Greetings and Salutations.

*Slams head into the wall.* I missed the bold part. That definitely does make any possible retreat far more dangerous. Drat!

As for initiative, yes, the plan does rely on that (to some extent). Though that's only factoring that 1) It doesn't count as a surprise attack (which grants automatic initiative), which means he was waiting for me to do that, and 2) That he passes his sensor check to notice me behind him in the first place. Though without being able to teleport behind him again, that is indeed more of a gamble. Without the escape route, it's a win or lose situation.

@prysus: well, the main problem when limited to level 4 spells (and level 1 caster) is getting close enough to kick his butt.

Yeah, I know. Believe me, that's such a pain. That's why I'm struggling.

anyways, chromatic protection only works on people within 10 feet... so, not likely to help. it also doesn't work if you attack him first.

You know, I saw the 10 ft. range, but for some reason I thought it could only be cast on someone within 10 feet (hence why I didn't pay it any mind). I also didn't notice the further notes below that mentions you can't attack first (I saw earlier where it says it works even against simultaneous attacks). That means I could try to teleport within 10 feet behind him, but that is REALLY close. If he wins initiative to turn and target me, it goes off. If I win initiative and cast before he can move, I don't have to worry about as much. Still, the risk factor of my plan would just go higher and higher. Gah!

i'd recommend you use wave of frost to cover all his sensors in frost, which should give you (hopefully) enough time to get close and hit him with another attack. thermal optics won't let you see through objects, so you can move in while his back is turned until you get to ~250 feet away (500 foot diameter clearing), taking cover as needed. depending on terrain within the clearing (if there are any ditches, mounds, tall grass, etc) you might be able to sneak closer, but for the sake of argument assume 250 feet. that means that you only have to go 30 feet in the open before landing your wave of frost.

I didn't realize thermal optics wouldn't let you see through objects (or to say the least, I wasn't sure one way or the other). Though this plans involves me still running into the open. I don't think it has much better success rate than teleporting in closer (can be used to get in close, but once you're in close you're not escaping due to the time it takes). He either will see me, or he won't. Running in the open for 30 feet seems like a dangerous tactic. Escape would be another 30 feet run. Not sure if it's any safer (though if you were level 4, then this strategy becomes a fair option because you could cast it from cover).

and on a side note, as far as getting the glitter boy out of the suit... i don't think heavy breathing would work. it's possible (fear can make you do some pretty irrational things), but it seems like a glitterboy's fear response isn't likely to be "get out of my power armor"... most likely he'll struggle and try to run away while in the suit imo. if limited to level 4 spells, i'd try charismatic aura. power/fear might initially look tempting, but i think successful deception is the really good option in this case... "You need to trust me, your armor has been compromised by an evil wizard and you need to get out before it explodes" sounds like a fairly useful deception. (the "you need to trust me" bit is to trigger the spell as a deception ability). admittedly not as cheap as heavy breathing, but still a fairly easy spell to cast.

Hmm ... I see your point. Though I figured it's a magical panic, and could still work. Actually, I see it more like ... a monster movie. You get in the car and turn the key, but darn it the thing won't work! Turn the key, turn the key, turn the key. Darn it the car won't start! The monster's going to be there any second! This is the point you get out of the car and make a run for it, because the car just isn't working and sitting there means certain doom. If the Glitterboy can't move, you get out and run. Though I'll admit that's my interpretation, and when open to GM interpretation that may not be the best plan. I conceed that point (that doesn't mean I think my interpretation is wrong, but that it's another wild card).

Charismatic Aura I had considered, but I figured there was no way the Glitterboy would fall for that. Though reading "successful deception" closer, it does say that victim will believe anything, "no matter how outlandish." So that may work after all. I can't deny that it probably has a higher chance of success. Also the benefit of this one is that you can cast it BEFORE you teleport in, so it'll already be active. If he starts aiming at you ... blab away and hope for the best! With the evidence available, I'd be more than happy to replace Chromatic Protection for Charismatic Aura. With the range on Charismatic Aura, I'd definitely be teleporting in (so that I could BS fast if things go wrong). I might even combine (if I had the time) Heavy Breathing and Charismatic Aura. Pilot's all freaking out and not thinking clear, then you shout out in a panicked voice (like calling out to the person being chased by the monster): "You have to trust me! I can help you, but you've got to get out of there now!"

And even though the plan did have flaws, I think it could still work (if put in this situation and I had to take out the pilot, I'd be willing to risk it). I have found this topic interesting. As I said, I have limited magic use (Psi-Mystics were limited to Level 1 and 2 spells, and with such little play he never leveled), but I've found this an interesting learning experience. That's the reason I wanted to try the level 1 challenge, to see what I could learn as I go. Thank you for all your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys to all.

[Shark_Force]

i suggested the wave of frost because it doesn't really allow a save, and it guarantees you 1 melee of blindness for your opponent. now granted, those 30 feet are going to be the longest thirty feet you ever went, but there's nothing to indicate that any of the sensors are non-directional beyond what you would expect (ie radar, which is not very useful against ground targets as a general rule, will be 360 degrees, but other stuff is line of sight... and can't be used to see something behind you)

thermal optics are fairly misunderstood. one of the most commonly misunderstood beliefs is that it lets you see through things. this is only very slightly true; if someone was leaning up against a wall for a minute or two (and the wall is not very thick or insulated), you would be able to pick up the person on the other side maybe (but you might very well only get a blob). but they'd have to be up against whatever it is for long enough to heat up that object, and for most objects that just isn't happening so long as you don't sit still for quite a while (you would still be advised to use stealth to the best of your ability, of course).

in particular, if you were to coat a thermal sensor in frost, it's not going to have any easier of a time detecting you than a visual sensor blinded by frost. in fact, depending on the ambient temperature, it may be nearly impossible for thermal sensors to detect you anyways (a powerful mage could exploit this by manipulating the weather... a level 1 will just have to get lucky with the weather, so obviously not a reliable technique for this scenario). use of the chameleon spell (which appears to let you temperature-match as well as color, to some extent) would help considerably in that case.

but the main thing is, once you've got your target blind, he isn't going to be able to fight you effectively no matter what. unless he saw you before you blinded him, he won't even know what general direction to shoot in, and one melee is either enough time for you to get close enough to cast something more powerful... or time enough for you to cast another wave of frost. but again, that's just how i would deal with the limited options...

as far as retreat, i would say your best option would be to throw a magic net if you must. even a level 1 caster gets 30 seconds out of it guaranteed... 30 seconds is a fairly long time to allow you to deal with a problem.

[Prysus]

i suggested the wave of frost because it doesn't really allow a save, and it guarantees you 1 melee of blindness for your opponent. now granted, those 30 feet are going to be the longest thirty feet you ever went ...

Greetings and Salutatoins. My issue was going those 30 feet I think would be suicide (that is, considering just teleporting behind it would be suicide). With that said ... I found a way to remove the 30 foot run. Since this is on a ley line (as per the example), range is increased by 50%. That means you can cast it (even at level 1) up to 300 feet away. This is well within tree range. You can get a minimum of 150 feet in a melee round (if you have a Speed slower than 10, you Ley Line drift, and if you're faster than you can run).

As for being behind him, while I don't take for granted that it's 360, I don't know if the book is specific enough to say for sure it's not. If it's not 360, you can easily Ley Line Phase (Teleport) behind him. But that's enough of a questionable ruling (I wouldn't gamble on a GM saying it's not 360 degrees). Hope for the best, plan for the worst. But if you're invisible and can keep his sensors frosted, you probably have a good chance of getting up close (probably cast Wave of Frost every 75 feet or so just to be safe). As a level 3 spell, I don't even need to replace any of the other spells I suggested to take it. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Shark_Force]

i suggested the wave of frost because it doesn't really allow a save, and it guarantees you 1 melee of blindness for your opponent. now granted, those 30 feet are going to be the longest thirty feet you ever went ...

Greetings and Salutatoins. My issue was going those 30 feet I think would be suicide (that is, considering just teleporting behind it would be suicide). With that said ... I found a way to remove the 30 foot run. Since this is on a ley line (as per the example), range is increased by 50%. That means you can cast it (even at level 1) up to 300 feet away. This is well within tree range. You can get a minimum of 150 feet in a melee round (if you have a Speed slower than 10, you Ley Line drift, and if you're faster than you can run).

good catch on the ley line, i'd forgotten that.

As for being behind him, while I don't take for granted that it's 360, I don't know if the book is specific enough to say for sure it's not. If it's not 360, you can easily Ley Line Phase (Teleport) behind him. But that's enough of a questionable ruling (I wouldn't gamble on a GM saying it's not 360 degrees). Hope for the best, plan for the worst. But if you're invisible and can keep his sensors frosted, you probably have a good chance of getting up close (probably cast Wave of Frost every 75 feet or so just to be safe). As a level 3 spell, I don't even need to replace any of the other spells I suggested to take it. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

unless that thermal sensor is in fact a thermometer (which would make it easier, not harder, to sneak up), it's going to be a directional sensor. that's pretty much all palladium has, is thermal sensors designed as part of an optics package.

[Prysus]

unless that thermal sensor is in fact a thermometer (which would make it easier, not harder, to sneak up), it's going to be a directional sensor. that's pretty much all palladium has, is thermal sensors designed as part of an optics package.

Greetings and Salutations. I guess I've seen enough anime where some (if not all) of the visuals are done via cameras. It's not a window or eye hole, but the suit is entirely sealed and there are display screens in the cockpit (and cameras could look behind). So if those cameras had thermal optics built in, they could see behind. Thinking more about it, that's probably not a Glitterboy visual operates. Anyways, not really the topic so I won't continue to derail the thread. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Prysus]

Additionally, if the External Audio Pickup can pick up a whisper up to 300' away, it could possibly pick up someone walking through a forest 500' away. Any movement picked up by the EAP could be tied into the targeting computer.

Greetings and Salutations. There are two problems with this complaint.

1: While External Audio Pickup (EAP) can hear something a whisper 300 feet away, there is nothing (I can see) that says that the ties into the targeting computer. But, even granting that it can, there's nothing say it can instantly pinpoint the exact location. I could tell you know, even if I heard an invisible person in the wilderness, I couldn't pinpoint their exact location (maybe close enough to fire wildly and hope for the best). That's unless you can find a quote saying different.

2: Whether EAP can target or not is pointless for the conversation. Why? A Glitter Boy doesn't have it. We have a list of what they're equipped with in R:UE on page 73. This also says see the Power Armor section. Now this is a very important note, because we can find Power Armor features on page 271, and EAP is NOT included. EAP is standard with Robot Vehicles, but since a Glitter Boy specifically refers us to Power Armor then what a Robot has standard is pointless.

Well the mage has tree cover up to 500ft of the glitterboy, so the whole 2 mile thing doesn't really apply.

I though that at first too, but as was pointed out to me it's actually a 500 ft diameter, which is a 250 ft radius. So you can get within 250 ft before you lose tree cover. Granted, a Glitter Boy doesn't have to stand in the dead center, but if it doesn't then that means you can get even closer.

Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Prysus]

Fair enough, the original Rifts book (which is what I have next to me ATM) lists that the Glitter Boy has what is standard for Robot Vehicles - atleast the 3rd Printing.

Interesting. Um ... I mean ... Greetings and Salutations. I just checked my original Rifts book too (12th Printing). While it calls the Glitter Boy a power armor often, there it does mention the have all Robot features. So in original Rifts he'd have the EAP, in R:UE he wouldn't. So I guess that would at least depend on which version we were using.

I do find the link fascinating (though I heard no sound). I think this is one of those incidents were real life is surpassing the Rifts tech, because if you read the Radar description in Rifts it mentions it doesn't work against ground opponents (or even 100 or 200 feet off the ground).

And the original Rifts book has a good visual/diagram of the Glitter Boy thermal optics system, which isn't much more than a small eye piece. This means that the pilot will need to be scanning the area if he hopes to successfully see the mage. This is also an interesting note, because Ley Line Phasing (Teleportation) allows the Ley Line Walker (LLW) to teleport into the air and stay there (granting +20% to prowl/hide). Even if the Glitterboy does turn around, unless he looks up into the air above his head, he may never actually see the LLW. Granted, this is far from a guarantee, but just discussing possibilities and options that could be done to increase chances of success (depending on the strategy implemented).

Okay, I think that's all for now. Thank you very much for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Lenwen]

I am a Level 15 Ley Line Walker.

For the sake of this exercise, I know all Invocations, have maximum possible P.P.E., and the battle takes place upon a Ley Line.

Keeping in mind the following requirements:

1 - I must kill the Glitter Boy pilot
2 - For whatever reason, I cannot simply wait for the Glitter Boy pilot to get out of his suit. I will assign an arbitrary time limit for the killing of the Glitter Boy pilot of six hours.
3 - I do not necessarily have to destroy the suit, but I must kill the pilot without him getting out of his own volition.
4 - The Glitter Boy is on a hilltop clearing, roughly 500 ft in diameter, surrounded by woodlands.

How do I kill this guy?

I'm interested in hearing all ideas and options.

15th lvl ley line walker would win this fight ..

Spell : Invisibility (sup) - means you can move around fighting / casting an the GB can not find him ..

Spell : magic net - 30 melee's at lvl 15 means .. 7.5 minutes of pure none stopped spell casting to get into the squishy middle of the Glitterboy Pilot compartment ..

Spell : Featherlight - makes the armor suit light enough to knock over .. an position as you want to facilitate even faster disciplinary actions against the GB pilot.

Spell : Mystic Portal : makes a hole in the armor (albeit 1 way) in which the mage can simply drop in an explosive device of some kind .. (your choice)

If you wish to get truly .. wicked .. do this.. but instead of doing it on the main body of the armor .. take it to the head .. sure it may take like 3-6 granades .. but you have over 7 minutes .. from which to do this over .. and over .. and over ..

[Shark_Force]

Not a problem. It's a common mistake to think that Radar was meant only for air targets, and developed in WW II, but back in 1922 while working at the Naval Labs, Holt and Young accidently realized that their 50W 60Mhz radar was detecting the wooden boats and trees from across the naval yard while they were conducting airborne tests.

[/threadjack]

rifts radar is specifically noted as not being much good against ground targets. now, mind you, when they wrote that... the setting basically consisted of wilderness and forests everywhere. but still, that's what the setting tells us.

[Nightmask]

Not a problem. It's a common mistake to think that Radar was meant only for air targets, and developed in WW II, but back in 1922 while working at the Naval Labs, Holt and Young accidently realized that their 50W 60Mhz radar was detecting the wooden boats and trees from across the naval yard while they were conducting airborne tests.

[/threadjack]

rifts radar is specifically noted as not being much good against ground targets. now, mind you, when they wrote that... the setting basically consisted of wilderness and forests everywhere. but still, that's what the setting tells us.

Sounds like the tech needs upgraded a bit, should be ahead of what we can do RL.

[Galroth]

1: Ley Line Meld - Totally immune to physical attacks but can still launch all the magical attacks that you want. Spell name may be wrong I'm not at home.
2: Ley Line Phase into range.
3: Sorcerous Fury
4: Blow Up Glitter Boy without him being able to respond.
5: Pee on the smoking wreckage to let everyone know who's boss.

[FuduVudu]

Seeing how the Glitter Boy has range, by about 2 miles, pretty much all of these plans need to be scrapped.

Well the mage has tree cover up to 500ft of the glitterboy, so the whole 2 mile thing doesn't really apply.

The targeting computer linked into radar is good out to 30 miles. The thermo imager has a range out to 2000' and "allows the infrared radiation of warm objects to be converted into a visible image". If the LLW hides behind a tree, then he's rendered the thermo imager pointless, but then looses LOS. The radar will however still pick him up.

Additionally, if the External Audio Pickup can pick up a whisper up to 300' away, it could possibly pick up someone walking through a forest 500' away. Any movement picked up by the EAP could be tied into the targeting computer.

Even the smallest ley line is still at least 3 miles long so 2 miles doesn't mean much at all. Since in my example the ley line walker teleports in behind and above while being incorporeal the glitterboy from max distance then kills him with a no saving throw spell combo in less then a round. Unless its a Titian Juicer in the glitterboy there is no way a human pilot could survive.

[Subjugator]

What happens if you cast carpet of adhesion in the barrel of the boom gun or on the containers for the pylons? If it worked it would either clog the boom gun or lock the pylons in the up (or down) position. My thought is that if you locked the pylons up or clogged the boom gun, he'd not really be able to shoot anymore.

I'm thinking the frost attack would mess up thermal optics because they'd detect nothing but coldness until after the frost wore off. Would a paint grenade (et al) have the same effect? I'm thinking that one could make a comparatively low level spell called 'zone of heat' which would functionally negate thermo imaging as well.

Featherlight and levitate would own the GB. I'm thinking that spells like AofI or Armor Bizarre (is that a LLW spell?) would be supremely helpful, as would the fact that they're at 150% effectiveness. My last thought is to wonder if this LLW is allowed to have any tattoos. If so, then the tattoo of invulnerability would make him win the day for sure.

75 MD per level x 15 levels x 1.5 (ley line proximity) = 1687 MD per use, and he can use it how many times?

Sorry, but the GB that can beat that dude (the one with a tattoo) doesn't exist.

/Sub

[Chronicle]

Glass house anyone?

[Shark_Force]

Glass house anyone?

the mage will still take the damage. i dunno about you, but i'd rather not kill the glitter boy by being reduced to a fine red mist.

[dragonfett]

How would the mage be a glass house? Could someone explain this?

[Proseksword]

Glass house is a spell that causes your opponent to take the same damage you do from their attack. With enough successive casts of Invincible Armor it could work.

[keir451]

Glass house is a spell that causes your opponent to take the same damage you do from their attack. With enough successive casts of Invincible Armor it could work.

Won't affect a pilot in side the power armor. I find it really simple, 15th level LLW begins casting his spell, GB pilot (of equivalent level) pulls a simultaneous attack and hits the LLW for an average roll of 110MDC on 3d6x10, quite possibly(99.99% chance) killing the LLW. End of story.

[Galroth]

Glass house is a spell that causes your opponent to take the same damage you do from their attack. With enough successive casts of Invincible Armor it could work.

Won't affect a pilot in side the power armor. I find it really simple, 15th level LLW begins casting his spell, GB pilot (of equivalent level) pulls a simultaneous attack and hits the LLW for an average roll of 110MDC on 3d6x10, quite possibly(99.99% chance) killing the LLW. End of story.

Not that simple since it's not set up as a duel, it isn't like the LLW and GB are only a few feet apart. The GB is the only actor in this with a set starting place. The LLW could be 6 miles up the Ley Line at the outset. If he knows the GB is there the GB basically has no chance in hell of living.

[Nightmask]

Glass house is a spell that causes your opponent to take the same damage you do from their attack. With enough successive casts of Invincible Armor it could work.

Won't affect a pilot in side the power armor. I find it really simple, 15th level LLW begins casting his spell, GB pilot (of equivalent level) pulls a simultaneous attack and hits the LLW for an average roll of 110MDC on 3d6x10, quite possibly(99.99% chance) killing the LLW. End of story.

Not that simple since it's not set up as a duel, it isn't like the LLW and GB are only a few feet apart. The GB is the only actor in this with a set starting place. The LLW could be 6 miles up the Ley Line at the outset. If he knows the GB is there the GB basically has no chance in hell of living.

Unlike the GB the LLW is also set up with an infinite supply of energy for refueling himself and using resources (i.e. higher level spells) he otherwise couldn't, cover that the GB doesn't have (in fact he's a nice shiny target on top of the hill in very plain sight), and apparently the LLW gets to plan while the GB is considered having no idea the LLW is around let alone a chance to prepare for him.

[Lenwen]

I am a Level 15 Ley Line Walker.

For the sake of this exercise, I know all Invocations, have maximum possible P.P.E., and the battle takes place upon a Ley Line.

Keeping in mind the following requirements:

1 - I must kill the Glitter Boy pilot
2 - For whatever reason, I cannot simply wait for the Glitter Boy pilot to get out of his suit. I will assign an arbitrary time limit for the killing of the Glitter Boy pilot of six hours.
3 - I do not necessarily have to destroy the suit, but I must kill the pilot without him getting out of his own volition.
4 - The Glitter Boy is on a hilltop clearing, roughly 500 ft in diameter, surrounded by woodlands.

How do I kill this guy?

I'm interested in hearing all ideas and options.

a 15TH lvl walker .. is absolutely (if the right spells are chosen) so far outta the league of a single Glitterboy .. as that same Glitterboy is soo far outta the league of a mere 7th lvl or less caster .. in this same scenario .. the thing that gives the victory to the mage .. is the same hindrance to the low level caster in the same situation.

[Hystrix]

How about Curse: Phobia. There are no penalties on casting it on a foe in PA. The spell caster can choose the phobia. In this case I'd choose Claustrophobia (fear of closed in spaces). That squishy pilot will be out of his Glitter Boy faster than you can say "pee in your pants"!

[Shark_Force]

How about Curse: Phobia. There are no penalties on casting it on a foe in PA. The spell caster can choose the phobia. In this case I'd choose Claustrophobia (fear of closed in spaces). That squishy pilot will be out of his Glitter Boy faster than you can say "pee in your pants"!

yeah, i'd say that would work.

[keir451]

Glass house is a spell that causes your opponent to take the same damage you do from their attack. With enough successive casts of Invincible Armor it could work.

Won't affect a pilot in side the power armor. I find it really simple, 15th level LLW begins casting his spell, GB pilot (of equivalent level) pulls a simultaneous attack and hits the LLW for an average roll of 110MDC on 3d6x10, quite possibly(99.99% chance) killing the LLW. End of story.

Not that simple since it's not set up as a duel, it isn't like the LLW and GB are only a few feet apart. The GB is the only actor in this with a set starting place. The LLW could be 6 miles up the Ley Line at the outset. If he knows the GB is there the GB basically has no chance in hell of living.

Unlike the GB the LLW is also set up with an infinite supply of energy for refueling himself and using resources (i.e. higher level spells) he otherwise couldn't, cover that the GB doesn't have (in fact he's a nice shiny target on top of the hill in very plain sight), and apparently the LLW gets to plan while the GB is considered having no idea the LLW is around let alone a chance to prepare for him.

If the LLW is 6 miles up the Ley Line then he's presumably nowhere near the GB so the duel is invalid in that repect. Both the LLW and the GB have very long lasting power supplies, but in each case the GB has more armor and can inflict more damage than the LLW can sustain. Also each attack of the GB inflicts penalties upon the LLW making it harder for the LLW to concentrate to cast his spells, can't cast your spell if you've been hurled 30 ft due to the impact of the GB's rounds, hard to concentrate when there's a sonic boom going off right nearby. In the end my personal vote will always go to the GB as I do not see Rifts magic as being all that effective to begin with. Having said that, give me a 20th + level D&D mage and THEN the GB will be ina world of hurt!

[dragonfett]

From what I have read, this is not a duel, this is taking out a Glitter Boy for whatever reason. You assume that the LLW has to be within 200 feet of the GB to destroy it. The spell Annihilate has the ability, on a good damage roll, will destroy the GB outright (2d4x100 MD damage). Summon Shadow Beast to distract the GB pilot for a action or two (if needed) while you cast from the safety of Invisibilty: Superior.

[Galroth]

If the LLW is 6 miles up the Ley Line then he's presumably nowhere near the GB so the duel is invalid in that repect. Both the LLW and the GB have very long lasting power supplies, but in each case the GB has more armor and can inflict more damage than the LLW can sustain. Also each attack of the GB inflicts penalties upon the LLW making it harder for the LLW to concentrate to cast his spells, can't cast your spell if you've been hurled 30 ft due to the impact of the GB's rounds, hard to concentrate when there's a sonic boom going off right nearby. In the end my personal vote will always go to the GB as I do not see Rifts magic as being all that effective to begin with. Having said that, give me a 20th + level D&D mage and THEN the GB will be ina world of hurt!

I only need to cast 1 spell to render the GB a shiny but worthless husk. If the GB can't do any damage to me it doesn't matter how long it takes for me to blast through the armor to the squishy middle.

[Hystrix]

Glass house is a spell that causes your opponent to take the same damage you do from their attack. With enough successive casts of Invincible Armor it could work.

Won't affect a pilot in side the power armor. I find it really simple, 15th level LLW begins casting his spell, GB pilot (of equivalent level) pulls a simultaneous attack and hits the LLW for an average roll of 110MDC on 3d6x10, quite possibly(99.99% chance) killing the LLW. End of story.

Not that simple since it's not set up as a duel, it isn't like the LLW and GB are only a few feet apart. The GB is the only actor in this with a set starting place. The LLW could be 6 miles up the Ley Line at the outset. If he knows the GB is there the GB basically has no chance in hell of living.

Unlike the GB the LLW is also set up with an infinite supply of energy for refueling himself and using resources (i.e. higher level spells) he otherwise couldn't, cover that the GB doesn't have (in fact he's a nice shiny target on top of the hill in very plain sight), and apparently the LLW gets to plan while the GB is considered having no idea the LLW is around let alone a chance to prepare for him.

If the LLW is 6 miles up the Ley Line then he's presumably nowhere near the GB so the duel is invalid in that repect. Both the LLW and the GB have very long lasting power supplies, but in each case the GB has more armor and can inflict more damage than the LLW can sustain. Also each attack of the GB inflicts penalties upon the LLW making it harder for the LLW to concentrate to cast his spells, can't cast your spell if you've been hurled 30 ft due to the impact of the GB's rounds, hard to concentrate when there's a sonic boom going off right nearby. In the end my personal vote will always go to the GB as I do not see Rifts magic as being all that effective to begin with. Having said that, give me a 20th + level D&D mage and THEN the GB will be ina world of hurt!

I don't know man. You've got some good example of how effective it can be in tow or three spells. I'm liking some of the combination I see. Of cource this is from a 15th level Ley Line Walker so they should be pretty tough, but it's possible for lower level mages to have Invisibility: Superior, Curse:Phobia, Summon: Shadow Beats, ands many of the other spells mentioned.

D&D spells were easier and more balenced plus there were no glitter boys in D&D, so... point is, Rifts Mages can be tough, you just have to know how to play them...

[Khord - Lizard Mage]

Targeted Deflection to protect yourself as you get into range. Sorcerous Fury to unleash the whip ass on the GB!

[jaymz]

Hmm Max PPE on a Ley Line.....a couple of castings of Annihilate over 6 hours should do the trick.......in fact if he has enough time to prepare and starts with maxx PPE he can have more than enough PPE to cast Annhilate more than once over several minutes. Good Bye Glitterboy.