Nightbane why should I play it

[darkguyver]

So have access to the game and was wondering why should it play it. What are the things that you like about this gaming system.

[Chronicle]

Think of Splicers only on a secret society level, Nightbane being the Splicer type fighting the nightlords who have secretly taken control of most of our modern earth

[Nekira Sudacne]

I'm afraid that spimplifies it to the point it's not really accurate, even slightly. Nightbane are nothing at all like splicers other than bizzare and often inhuman apperance.

EDIT: I'll make my own attempt to expand and explain nightbane better in the morning when I have sleep.

[Incriptus]

It's a trap!

You start out by reading the books that show this down and out gritty street level game. Your main goal is to survive, second is fight back . . . if you can. Whether you like that or not is up to you

Then you make a Nightbane, lets say you do random rolls and get something boring, or something bizzarly unplayable. So you start choosing aspects. You realise your character is extreemly powerful, it makes most of your HU heroes seem almost weak! It's a power gamer's paradise!

Then you start playing, and you realise that you've already lost. No matter how powerful your Bane is, no matter the 50 supernatural strength, the immortality and incredible regeneration. You've already lost. Nightbane is a trap, you're actually playing a dark gritty street/sewer level game! It combines that power fantasy with the dark fantasy.

[Rallan]

Think of White Wolf's various World Of Darkness games, only instead of ending up as a series of epic fight scenes between supernatural monsters, it's explicitly meant to be all about asskicking and explosions right from the start.

[Warwolf]

...it's explicitly meant to be all about asskicking and explosions right from the start.

Not in the games I've run.

Incriptus has the best description so far, darkguyver, though your average Nightbane isn't necessarily going to be quite as powerful as he might lead you to believe.

What I will say is that Nightbane is one of those setting where being a combat-monkey isn't likely to win the day. In the end, the odds are so stacked against the players that you have to be not only tough, but incredibly smart to survive. Sure, you might get those instances where you can go balls-to-the-wall and throw down in some superhero-esque grand melee. But if you go that route you better either be in the middle of nowhere or be ready to cut and run because the heat that will come down on you is nothing short of Biblical.

So, why should you play Nightbane? Because it is that dark and gritty street-level game with the chance (or option) for those epic monster-stomps. Because it will keep you guessing every step of the way. Because its mythos is one of the single most intriguing I've ever read. Because you get to play a wacked-out looking bad*** in a fight for the lives of everyone they've ever cared about against some of the most sinister and powerful ***holes this side of the Megaverse. Because you can be a giant, stone bear with an axe for a hand, flinging friggin' lightning bolts at shapeshifting demons and STILL feel that potential for your character's death around every dark corner. Because a good Nightbane G.M. MIGHT just be able to make your skin crawl... or feel like maybe you SHOULD look twice at the eyes of the Feds if you ever cross paths.

Because in the end Nightbane is horror... and fantasy... and mystery... and action... and, well, simply awesome.

Oh, and did I mention because I like the books I help write to sell.

[darkguyver]

You should "olay" the game because the setting is one that you have an intrest in and a group of player that you enjoy role-playing with. And all the reassons given above, try it you might just find it to be a setting that you like.

Fix

[Rallan]

...it's explicitly meant to be all about asskicking and explosions right from the start.

Not in the games I've run.

Incriptus has the best description so far, darkguyver, though your average Nightbane isn't necessarily going to be quite as powerful as he might lead you to believe.

Its far more combat-oriented than a lot of horror RPGs. You're given supernatural powerhouses that can hold their own against even the toughest of supernatural villain mook races and which can plow through regular humans like nobody's business. You've got a rules system with pretty much no support for intrigue, character-driven play, or story-driven play, or any kind of play except combat. Virtually every power in the game either directly (eg attack, defense, mind control) or indirectly (movement, stealth) revolves around your ability to kick lots of ass. And the default assumption is that you're part of a resistance movement locked in a shadow war against evil monsters. Its not so much a horror RPG as a dark supers RPG.

[Shark_Force]

...it's explicitly meant to be all about asskicking and explosions right from the start.

Not in the games I've run.

Incriptus has the best description so far, darkguyver, though your average Nightbane isn't necessarily going to be quite as powerful as he might lead you to believe.

Its far more combat-oriented than a lot of horror RPGs. You're given supernatural powerhouses that can hold their own against even the toughest of supernatural villain mook races and which can plow through regular humans like nobody's business. You've got a rules system with pretty much no support for intrigue, character-driven play, or story-driven play, or any kind of play except combat. Virtually every power in the game either directly (eg attack, defense, mind control) or indirectly (movement, stealth) revolves around your ability to kick lots of ass. And the default assumption is that you're part of a resistance movement locked in a shadow war against evil monsters. Its not so much a horror RPG as a dark supers RPG.

i'm not sure how you get that. sure, a nightbane is the equal of most nightlord minions. maybe even two or three.

but seriously, are you going to expect good results if your combat bane tries to take on a dozen hounds/hunters? the basic "cannon fodder" of the nightlords? put an ashmedai or something in there for magical support, and it can start to get really ugly.

the key to understand is that the nightlords don't fight fair. they don't say "oh, well, he's got 3 nightbane, let's send in three (or even six) minions?", they will send every available minion after you, ranging from dopplegangers to corrupt cops, priests of night, ashmedai, bug-men, whatever they have available and can send without making it obvious that there's something supernatural happening.

you might be tough, but you're not going to be able to deal with the small army the nightlords will level at you if you give them a chance. sooner or later, the nightlords will get a big enough group together to finish you off. there might be a hundred or even 500 nightbane in a city, but a nightlord will have tens or even hundreds of thousands of dopplegangers (not all available, admittedly), tens of thousands of hunters/hounds, hundreds of other supernatural minions, and an assortment of humans working for them in one capacity or another, plus the night princes (and their minions). if you let them pin you down, you will die, probably in an extremely horrible manner.

thus, even if you could beat the typical pack of hounds, you still have to run. you still have to hide. you still have to avoid them. because if you don't, sooner or later (most likely sooner) you will be found, pinned down, and then killed.

[Warwolf]

Its far more combat-oriented than a lot of horror RPGs. You're given supernatural powerhouses that can hold their own against even the toughest of supernatural villain mook races and which can plow through regular humans like nobody's business. You've got a rules system with pretty much no support for intrigue, character-driven play, or story-driven play, or any kind of play except combat. Virtually every power in the game either directly (eg attack, defense, mind control) or indirectly (movement, stealth) revolves around your ability to kick lots of ass. And the default assumption is that you're part of a resistance movement locked in a shadow war against evil monsters. Its not so much a horror RPG as a dark supers RPG.

More combat-oriented than most horror RPG's, sure. But you fail to impress upon me how that makes it NOT a horror RPG.

Sure, the average supernatural being can plow through regular humans for the most part, but I really don't see how that's all that different from the times I've sat back and watched people play Vampire, or Werewolf, or any of the other horror-themed RPGs that are out there. On top of that, if you think the average Nightbane character can hold their own (starting off) against even a couple of hounds or hunters you are, quite simply, playing a different game than the one that is printed. My group ran like hell every time one showed up after nearly being THRASHED on a couple of occasions. It wasn't until after a few months of gaming that they started to be able to tangle with those things one-on-one. And don't get me started on properly trained and equipped humans. A few assault rifles trained on a single Nightbane, Guardian, or even Wampyr is often enough to downright ruin their day.

As far as the KIND of play supported by Nightbane (and Palladium in-general) they are ALL supported. It just depends on what the G.M. and players want to do. My group spent a lot of time just poking their noses around and trying to figure out what the crap was really going on. We had several multi-hour gaming session where not a single round of combat was undertaken. And you know what? I never had a problem with the rules "not supporting" that. You've got plenty of espionage/rogue skills, rules for creating and maintaining contacts, plot-hooks galore for exploration/intrigue/puzzle solving/political wrangling, and so-on. As long as the G.M. creates a scenario geared toward what the players want, then you're golden. Of course, I am also of the opinion that you don't need a hard-and-fast rule-set for EVERYTHING in an RPG. Some things (like constructing story-lines and arcs, developing NPCs, etc.) should be left largely to the individual G.M.s so they can tailor the game to the group's wants. You want to see an example of a good mix? Check out Irvin's adventure "Wireless" in the back of the Survival Guide.

Regarding the powers? Are you kidding me? Since when is stealth and movement only related to combat? Add to that things like Premonition, Mirror Search, Astral Transferance, Soul Shield, and Dream Dance that have next to NOTHING to do with combat (not to mention several of the new Talents in the upcoming Dark Designs), and your argument doesn't hold water there either. It seems to me like you may just have blinders on regarding the possibilities afforded by what's written.

And, yeah, the default assumption is that you are involved in the "War in the Shadows." You know why? Because to a certain extent EVERYONE in the setting is involved, whether they are unknowing victims waiting for slaughter or salvation (which doesn't make for very fun roleplaying if you play one of these the whole time), wise to the situation and simply trying to survive (like my group was in the beginning), intrigued by the mystery and looking into it (like one player was later), working on the periphery to hamper the Nightlords' efforts, out to capitalize on the situation and make a quick buck (like one player was later), or directly in armed opposition to the dark legions (like a couple of my players tried to be)... you ARE involved whether you like it or not. It's kind-of one of the central themes of the setting. However, it's the "how" in this instance that makes all the difference in the world to what type of gaming experience you get.

Now, where you and I DO agree is that there is an element of the superhero genre woven into the game. However, the primary tint of the setting should remain horror (in my opinion) because even these relatively powerful, supernatural, "superheroes" still have very good reason to fear for not only their lives but also anyone that they care about. I consistently had my players freaking out about one thing or another, paranoid of almost anything connected to the Nightlands (including mirrors), and even starting to look at how they could get one over on each other's Faction by the time the gaming group disintigrated.

[Incriptus]

Yup agrees with the above. Perhaps the difference between Nightbane and the others is that your character isn't afraid of the enviroment. You don't have to fight over a can of peas [btw does anyone know if a Nightbane can starve in the Morphus]. You also don't have to worry about the death spiral. Win or lose, if you can get away you can live to fight again.

On the otherside you are still outmanned, outgunned, consistantly hunted for your very nature, feared by the masses, forced to abandon the only life you've ever known, you've become a "monster" and don't know why.

Quite frankly, I cant see how you could survive an asskicking and explosion game without serious GM protections. Maybe my biggest problem with Nightbane setting is that you have already lost, I can see no hope for victory.

[Warwolf]

I can see no hope for victory.

...yet.

[Incriptus]

I can see no hope for victory.

...yet.

Tease

[Nekira Sudacne]

isn't the point of a game like this for there to be no cannon path that seems likely to result in victory, that way each GM invents their own plot for victory on their own?

In my opinion, the fact there's no real hope for victory by what's in the books is a good thing--it just means that the path to victory is "whatever the GM's plot is"

[Warwolf]

isn't the point of a game like this for there to be no cannon path that seems likely to result in victory...

No, that's not the point. But a "canon path to victory" is also not exactly something I'm going to write, either. If you look close, there are actually glimmers of hope sprinkled throughout the books: the horn locked in Moloch's vault, the inclusion of the Reshapers which seem to scare the pants off the Nightlords (wait, do they wear pants? something to ponder later ), the potential for taking Typhoon, the possibility of fomenting Magog's rebellion using the Tomb of the First, whatever the heck might be inside the Toymaker's Puzzle Box... and the list goes on.

It's just that for the most part the books to date have focused on exactly how bad-off those resisting the Nightlords seem to have it. As we explore more about the Factions and what they have planned, perhaps G.M.s will see some more options and get a better idea of the chance (no matter how slim) that the "good guys" might be able to eventually win the day.

Because, in the end, most people don't like playing no-win situations, which is why Nightbane is a highly-unlikely-win situation.

[Incriptus]

Well put, Warwolf. And again I was over simplifying [you know when you post from work you don't have the oppertunity to be as percise with your thoughts]. There are a handful of twinkles, but most of the senario's I can think of even if you win, you lose.

[Nekira Sudacne]

isn't the point of a game like this for there to be no cannon path that seems likely to result in victory...

No, that's not the point. But a "canon path to victory" is also not exactly something I'm going to write, either. If you look close, there are actually glimmers of hope sprinkled throughout the books: the horn locked in Moloch's vault, the inclusion of the Reshapers which seem to scare the pants off the Nightlords (wait, do they wear pants? something to ponder later ), the potential for taking Typhoon, the possibility of fomenting Magog's rebellion using the Tomb of the First, whatever the heck might be inside the Toymaker's Puzzle Box... and the list goes on.

It's just that for the most part the books to date have focused on exactly how bad-off those resisting the Nightlords seem to have it. As we explore more about the Factions and what they have planned, perhaps G.M.s will see some more options and get a better idea of the chance (no matter how slim) that the "good guys" might be able to eventually win the day.

Because, in the end, most people don't like playing no-win situations, which is why Nightbane is a highly-unlikely-win situation.

I don't like no-win situations either

I just don't want books to give me a problem AND the answer at the same time, because that defeats the purpose. But a few more odd do-daads that might come in handy at some point isn't a bad thing by any means.

But what I was refering to was the fact that none of those things will fix things on their own. Taking Typhoon City will wipe out 1/3 of all darkblade production. That will weaken the nightlords, but it's hardly going to end the fight--espically sinse it dosn't take any darkblades out of the hands of Hounds who already have them (Minus the ones you killed doing it)

That magic box is good for a trump card, the Horn might bring down the house on one. But in the end, no one of them can get all of them. They're powerful tools, but they're not solutions, in that no one of them will end the war or even come close. You might take down _A_ Nightlord, not _ALL_ Nightlords, and that's what I mean.

When I said "shouldn't give an answer", I ment "the books shouldn't give an item or path to destroying every nightlord in exsistance in one shot", and I didn't think it was very likely that's what you had in mind. but it's best to be clear on it.

[Warwolf]

When I said "shouldn't give an answer", I ment "the books shouldn't give an item or path to destroying every nightlord in exsistance in one shot", and I didn't think it was very likely that's what you had in mind. but it's best to be clear on it.

Oh, yeah, I'm not sure I could even forsee a circumstance where you take them all out at once. No matter what route you go with trying to take the fight to them, it's going to be a long, bloody conflict (the best kind for role-playing).

[The Dark Elf]

Destroying the Dark is probably the only way to "save" earth and the key to that isnt gonna be revealed any time soon. (Is it?)

Although it would be cool to say "I shoot the dark" and it mean something this time.

Ok it being "cool" was not the best description, but you get the joke...

[Nekira Sudacne]

When I said "shouldn't give an answer", I ment "the books shouldn't give an item or path to destroying every nightlord in exsistance in one shot", and I didn't think it was very likely that's what you had in mind. but it's best to be clear on it.

Oh, yeah, I'm not sure I could even forsee a circumstance where you take them all out at once. No matter what route you go with trying to take the fight to them, it's going to be a long, bloody conflict (the best kind for role-playing).

Then we're in agreement there. but really, what I mean is, I like things like the Horn. it's a powerful tool, it can be of great help...

But it's not going to win any fights for you. It's a situational weapon, and you have to have your victory already planned out before you can bring the horn in.

In short, it's something that makes a plan easier. But no group in the world can grab the horn then expect to just kill a nightlord with it.

And that's the kinds of tools Nightbane needs more of. Things that don't go "And if you use this on a nightlord, it dies". It needs more "And this item has this awsome effect, which would be really useful. It might even get a nightlord if you get it while..."

And if that's what you have in mind, well, i'm really looking forward to it

[Warwolf]

Destroying the Dark is probably the only way to "save" earth and the key to that isnt gonna be revealed any time soon. (Is it?)

Although it would be cool to say "I shoot the dark" and it mean something this time.

Ok it being "cool" was not the best description, but you get the joke...

"Attacking the darkness" became a viable tactic as soon as the Shadow Meld spell was printed.

As far as "The Dark" goes... you're assuming it can even BE killed.

In short, it's something that makes a plan easier. But no group in the world can grab the horn then expect to just kill a nightlord with it.

And that's the kinds of tools Nightbane needs more of. Things that don't go "And if you use this on a nightlord, it dies". It needs more "And this item has this awsome effect, which would be really useful. It might even get a nightlord if you get it while..."

Well, now that would depend entirely on what that horn actually does. As of now, it's more than a little ambiguous. But I'm also referring to more than just "things" that can help. I'm talking about what plans are in place, what knowledge can be exploited, and even who else might be out there that (if the characters forge the right alliances) might just be able to rain on the Nightlords' parade a bit. You start adding these things together, and you might just find some of the chinks in the Ba'als' armor.

[TechnoGothic]

Nightbane ... Watch the Movie ... NIGHTBREED.

NIGHTBREED
HELLBOY
MEN IN BLACK (first movie)
PUSH (psychics)
DRESDEN FILES (TV series - Magics)

Together that is Nightbane RPG could be like as written in media format.
People with guns can still kick your butt. It can happen.