Attacks Per Melee: Really dumb question

[Mediapig71]

OK, having played this game for years, I really should know this, but it;s been a long time, and I was recently flipping through my HU2 rulebook, and suddenly realized I may gave been doing this wrong years ago...

When characters dodge (or perform something else that uses up an extra attack, like a power punch) Do they lose their very next attack, or do they lose an attack off their total? In other words:

Hero A (4 attacks) and Villain B (5 attacks) are fighting. Hero A has initiative, and strikes at Villain B, and VIllain B chooses to dodge... The dodge is successful. Now it's Villain B's turn. What happens? Does he not get to act, since he just dodged? Or, does he act normally and attack, leaving him only 3 attacks for the rest of the round (5-1 attack -1 dodge = 3)

We always played the first way, but reading the rules again, it kind of sounds like the second is correct. What do you guys think?

[Severus Snape]

Totally subjective and up to your group/GM. Either way is, technically, correct. When I GM, I rule that it comes off the total, and not your next action.

[Mediapig71]

Ah... well, good to know I wasn't screwing things up too badly then! Thanks!

[Ranger]

Both are correct, but sometimes I as the player like to dodge the first round just to see how strong the NPC is.

Sometimes I even have to remind the GM, that NOT ALL bad guys know how my character fights.

[Oberoth]

Have to agree with TBV on this. That dodge messes with everything that comes after. Not what comes at the end. But it's up to you.

[Oberoth]

Though an auto parry could be used perhaps in it's stead. Either way striking back is going to be less effective (add penalty here). This of course depends on your HTH/level and it's specifics.

[hinomaru]

Dude that's so easy, think of attacks like action points that's all
1 attack = 1 action
1 power punch cost 2 actions then you treat it as a normal attack it just cost 2 attacks that's all

OK, having played this game for years, I really should know this, but it;s been a long time, and I was recently flipping through my HU2 rulebook, and suddenly realized I may gave been doing this wrong years ago...

When characters dodge (or perform something else that uses up an extra attack, like a power punch) Do they lose their very next attack, or do they lose an attack off their total? In other words:

Hero A (4 attacks) and Villain B (5 attacks) are fighting. Hero A has initiative, and strikes at Villain B, and VIllain B chooses to dodge... The dodge is successful. Now it's Villain B's turn. What happens? Does he not get to act, since he just dodged? Or, does he act normally and attack, leaving him only 3 attacks for the rest of the round (5-1 attack -1 dodge = 3)

We always played the first way, but reading the rules again, it kind of sounds like the second is correct. What do you guys think?

[KillWatch]

Thats why I use segmented attacks. YOur way makes sense, but I take it further and divide the attacks into the 15 second melee, and in this way they would logically lose their next attack. However if you allow your characters to do all of their attacks at once, which is annoying when you have a guy with 10 actions, while you twiddle your thumbs with your 3 attacks. A segmented attack structure allows for everyone to get in on the action IRT,... sort of.

[hinomaru]

ake the game for it being simple never complicate it trust me i been running palladium games since 1983 when they only have what we called the black book back then. attacks are back and forth its jus a power punch cost 2 attacks but its really just 1 so you treat it as 1 attack in a segmented combat, similar to white wolf exalted combat. unless you use the super strength chart from the heroes unlimited GM guide which is 4 attacks per power punch. if you break down 1 melee/15 seconds do you honest think a person is going to take a swing/punch take 4 or 6 seconds to swing? no cause he wouldn't hit anything people would get bonuses to dodge/parry against this power house. its just for call an effect to do more damage and say a heroic moment all the chips are down character is nearly dead his comrades are down and the player character comes out of no where with this powerful hit, being its for effect and role playing but a player has to pay something you cant just hit harder for no reason so palladium had it cost 2 actions instead of one.it breaks down to being simple and common sense. if not players would abuse it and only power punch all the time. I think the main reason why it was put in the game to stop players from power gaming which takes the fun away from the game for both the players and GM.

Thats why I use segmented attacks. YOur way makes sense, but I take it further and divide the attacks into the 15 second melee, and in this way they would logically lose their next attack. However if you allow your characters to do all of their attacks at once, which is annoying when you have a guy with 10 actions, while you twiddle your thumbs with your 3 attacks. A segmented attack structure allows for everyone to get in on the action IRT,... sort of.

[Mediapig71]

How does your segmented attack work? That sounds interesting...

[KillWatch]

well I give the credit to Champions, as they have a 12 segment melee.
I had to create a table that divided the number of attacks by 15, with an end result being that everyone goes on the last segment. The more attacks you have the sooner you act.
1 action means you will go on Segment 15
3 actions means 5, 10, and 15
15 actions means you have an attack every second
Initiative still comes into play. Say if you have less attacks than another you would still go first, with the assumption that it is from the "last" melee.
Another option here is to just start on the highest rolls first action and carrying on from there.
You can hold your action until the segment of your next action. You wait to long you lose your action.

Here are the benefits as I see them;
-Everyone is involved and not waiting for mr 15 attacks to finish killing everyone
-Dodging takes the very next action. Hereby you can actually pin someone down. An interesting bit is that the target can't use all their dodges at once. Meaning that if I go on Segments 3 and 6, and I have two people attacking me on 3 and 4, I can only dodge one of them, as the two fall in between my actions. I can't be everywhere at once, which brings more tactics into the game.
-With the space in between attacks it is assumed the the subject is making said attack so you can describe what is happening; this guy is taking out his revolver, guy over here is raising his sword, this one is pointing his hands at your team mate; what do you do?
-Movement: I allow a half move/attack action. And with the split you can see just how far someone moves. A spd of 15 moves 15 feet per second at a full tilt. Do they actually outrun the blast? You can say that it will take 1 full action to get up to speed or what have you but it works

[Damian Magecraft]

How does your segmented attack work? That sounds interesting...

Try this one... (it was designed with ease of play; speeding up combat; and resolving movement into combat).
combat segments that are easy to follow and implement

[Tearstone]

Ok, so this begs the question of the combo-dodge/attack? What about parry/attack combo?

How about if Villain A throws a right straight punch for Hero B's face, and instead of a full twisty, turney dodge, he sidesteps one foot to his left, pulling him off the line of attack and counters with a driving right knee toward Villain A's solar plexus. Its a small step, llean and knee in one smooth motion. It's not really a dodge, or a parry, and its not really a simultaneous attack either.

Nor is it a special move. It's not a half movement either.

How does one resolve situations like this?

I would probably make the character roll dodge, but wouldn't consider it a dodge manuver, then roll to strike with half bonuses or maybe not, and make the whole thing take up two actions. Maybe.

[KillWatch]

1: Jaymz' suggestion does speed up combat, however inaccurate. If you work out speed it comes out to 1 foot per second per point. I don't know if that was accidental as they don't mention it in the books anywhere, instead giving a ypm rate, which I have not found a use for, and they omit the (Spd/10) x 7 mph.

2: Combo attacks take 1 action, so they would occurr on the same segment.
If the villain has auto dodge, fine
If he doesn't he takes his normal penalties
Now if you are asking about Attack+Auto Dodge+Attack, no. I mean sure he can state that that's what he wants to do but his 1 action is the Attack+Auto Dodge. His next is the Second attack.

[hinomaru]

its easy just follow initiative order and in the case of a tie initiative roll the person with the highest PP would go first, rinse and repeat till enemy dead, runs away or the same for the players. If someone decides they want to do a power punch or any action that takes up/cost more attacks there initiative order stays the same it just cost them the extra attacks that's' it. keep it simple and fast so the game can keep going, if you over analyze anything and break it down etc...it takes more time and fun away from the game. I played exalted for years and segments/ticks aka melees were broken down to the hair i disliked the combat but great game. sometimes depending on the fight screw just have them add there parry or dodge to there armor to lessen the amount of rolls if it goes above 20 well that's why they make bonuses to hit to decrease the armor rating. example if you have an AR of 17 and you call i'm parrying this melee you could add your say +4 to parry to the armor rating making it 21 and the villain has a +6 to strike which you would subtract from the 21 armor rating making it 15 to hit. its a nice short I used for years the only factor you would have to add in is the roll with punch/fall/impact. so for that melee round you called a parry any roll above a 5 hits but because your armor rating is 15 any roll below 15 is parried and above 15 is a hit. if you get hit then you roll with punch/fall/impact to reduce the damage. Combat done easy.

How does your segmented attack work? That sounds interesting...