Rule junkies

[Damian Magecraft]

How would a GM handle a player who complains all the time about having things brought into the game that is not straight from the books?

tell them its my game world accept it or leave.

[Jefffar]

LC, you're still new to the boards so this is Moderator Advice rather than Moderator Warning. Please be careful in regards to discussing conversions of other people's IP to Palladium game rules on these forums. It is against the rules and has caused legal troubles for Palladium in the past (I recall an incident involving a letter from the lawyers of a certain Movie Producer about a conversion involving some kind of Knight who used a sword made out light and could do mind tricks). So please don't share such conversions or ask for them.

In the GM's guide itself Kevin points out that the GM is free to alter rules and create stuff as he or she sees fits, so if your rules lawyer friend wants to go exactly by the rules written, then that is a rule they also have to go by.

[pblackcrow]

First off, welcome to the boards.

Should the above suggestions not work and he persist...Drop a cow from space on his character, then tell him to leave the table!

[JuliusCreed]

As a rules lawyer, your player has the right to object to any changes you make in your game.

As the one running the show, though, YOU are the rules JUDGE... 2 words... "OVER"-"RULED"!

Game on!

[llywelyn]

How would a GM handle a player who complains all the time about having things brought into the game that is not straight from the books?

In particular, these books from this publisher are pretty much designed to be played loosely and with a maximum focus on enjoying yourselves, rulebook be damned.

Further, Palladium was overrun with the Old Ones and formerly a magical nexus just like Rifts. There are summoners and dimension-bending magics all over the place.

Your rules lawyer has no case, but you should take some time to (a) think about how you can balance his fun with those of your other players or (b) consider whether he's really a worthwhile addition to the group.

[The Beast]

Honestly if I were playing and you kept bringing in Star Trek, robots, and Rifts into PFRPG I'd be saying the same thing.

[The Beast]

We play Rifts and Robotech because of the use of more OCCs and RCCs....

Then why are you posting in the PFRPG section?

[Jefffar]

Moved to a more appropriate forum

[Grell]

Obviously, if you're running the game, final decision is yours.

But have you considered that maybe you're not providing the game the player had expected to play? It sounds like setting integrity is pretty important to them (other bad habits aside) and while homebrewed creations may be welcome, they may be unsettled by introduction of other obvious IP.

[Armorlord]

How would a GM handle a player who complains all the time about having things brought into the game that is not straight from the books?

Complains about new or modified material, constantly?
My initial thoughts involve violence, but that is uncivil, so the next step is to wait for the urge to backhand them to fade.
He's seriously claiming you can't bring other material in the game? While there might be limits on what you can talk about on the forum, there are certainly no limits on what you can do in your game. Pretty much tell the person to get over it, or to get out if they honestly can't control themselves.

[CyCo]

First off, welcome to the boards.

Should the above suggestions not work and he persist...Drop a cow from space on his character, then tell him to leave the table!

Earthworm Jim, for the win!

That is all.

8p

[Akashic Soldier]

I think that parodies are okay from time to time. In my own game I introduced the Electric Kitten Force who formed the mighty robot Joltron and had Robot Cats from South America painted up in soft whites and neons (as opposed to Robot Lions) but I actually agree with the antagonistic player on this one.

Don't make up stuff from the comics. You can do everything pretty amazing within the rules as they exist (Joltron for example was made using the Robotic Gestalt rules from Rifter). There is just no nice way of me saying it but basing characters off other things instead of building your own unique characters (or even characters inspired from other things) is something I see a lot in first year gamers. If someone came to one of my game sessions (who had been playing a while) and said "This is my character Thor God of Thunder" I'd flatly shake my head and say sorry buddy. Keep your stats (if they were legit) rename yourself and rethink your origin.

I hold my players to a pretty high standard (Check out the Oh Dear... going to far thread) a little lower in this section of the forum.

[Noon]

How would a GM handle a player who complains all the time about having things brought into the game that is not straight from the books?

tell them its my game world accept it or leave.

I think its a matter of whether as GM your giving the impression your going to just go with the books, it's setting and such and that's it, but then bringing in all sorts of crazy stuff from elsewhere.

If you think it's fine to bring in whatever without saying, I'm sure if you entered a rifts game as a player and found out it'd be a session of my little pony (unless you dig my little pony) you might be bummed out and feel like a bait and switch occured.

It's not hard to stomach you misslead someone a little. It's not like a big deal, just say what your going to do, say sorry for any missleading that accidentally happened and then say well either continue playing as is, or cease playing.

[MaxxSterling]

How would a GM handle a player who complains all the time about having things brought into the game that is not straight from the books?

tell them its my game world accept it or leave.

I'm with him.

Basically tell him to deal with it, or leave. I'm sure there are just tons of other PFRPG games going on in your neighborhood! Maybe he'd be happier playing one of them.

[ZorValachan]

How would a GM handle a player who complains all the time about having things brought into the game that is not straight from the books?

tell them its my game world accept it or leave.

I'm with him.

Basically tell him to deal with it, or leave. I'm sure there are just tons of other PFRPG games going on in your neighborhood! Maybe he'd be happier playing one of them.

And then maybe the entire group will decide the same and leave with him, leaving the GM without a group. RPing is not a dictatorship. The GM should be a fair and balanced arbitrator. I have found in my 25+ years of gaming that GMs who take the 'my way or the highway' approach are left without groups.

I have found that it is best if before the first game starts, the GM pitches his game to the players, telling them what they can expect and not expect (such as strict Robotech, Rifts+Robotech, Rifts+Robotech+tons of house rules). If there are house rules, they need to be written and passed out. Then no one can say they did not know. -not reading is a different story and not an acceptable excuse-. If a rule needs to be changed/house ruled, it needs to be added to the house rule sheet and takes place in the -following- session, unless plenty of time if given beforehand. Also it needs to be announced. When A GM loses credibility, they lose their game. The GM has all the power to set the rules, but the players need to be given them.

I always think of it as a sandbox:
The GM designs and builds the sandbox.
The GM puts whatever toys he wants the players to play with in the sandbox.
The GM then must let the players play in the sandbox as they want.
The GM cannot beat the players with the toy truck, yelling "Play with the toy truck!", if they are having fun with the bulldozer.-You put the bulldozer in the sandbox, let them play with it.
Don't throw new toys in the sandbox. it might hit and hurt a player. Put it in the sandbox after telling all the players and between sessions.
The GM is responsible that no one player is hogging all the toys.

[Noon]

And then maybe the entire group will decide the same and leave with him, leaving the GM without a group. RPing is not a dictatorship. The GM should be a fair and balanced arbitrator. I have found in my 25+ years of gaming that GMs who take the 'my way or the highway' approach are left without groups.

Really any group who instantly and always rejects a GM who wants to maintain integrity in his content, well they are a kind of bully group anyway. Best not to play with them. Fair enough not always wanting to play under a 'my way' style, but to always drop any such game? It's just a kind of narrow mindedness itself.

[ZorValachan]

And then maybe the entire group will decide the same and leave with him, leaving the GM without a group. RPing is not a dictatorship. The GM should be a fair and balanced arbitrator. I have found in my 25+ years of gaming that GMs who take the 'my way or the highway' approach are left without groups.

Really any group who instantly and always rejects a GM who wants to maintain integrity in his content, well they are a kind of bully group anyway. Best not to play with them. Fair enough not always wanting to play under a 'my way' style, but to always drop any such game? It's just a kind of narrow mindedness itself.

I'm not talking 'maintain integrity'. Maintaining integrity is good. It's part of being fair and balanced.

I'm talking. "You didn't buy me pizza", so every NPC focuses fire on you. Or "I said the game would be Robotech only , but last adventure you fought Splugorth, the one before that you teleported to the PBFRPG world, and now I'm bringing in mechanoids". Or "I know you cut off that guy's head after you killed him, but I wanted that NPC to die and come back as a highlander Immortal, so come up with a reason you did not".

it's why it is always important for a GM and the players to talk about the campaign beforehand. I didn't say the group should drop the GM after 1 minute or 1 session. Sometimes were after months of trying to tolerate their BS each Friday.

We've had a GM who almost rewrote an entire system, which is ok, because that GM gave us copies of his changes. - We did not quit this game, it ended at its story conclusion.

We've had another who each game, when he didn't like a roll, would change the 'defender wins tie' rule to 'attacker wins ties', then switch back in a couple sessions. Because "i'm the GM and God here". After some months, this GM never has been a GM again, but is a great player.

One Player's PC got all the spotlight and cool l00tz because he bought the GM pizza and soda. If you did or tried to do something he did not like, the next session he would rewind time, so you did not do it, or big bolts of lightling would come down and kill your character. -We do not game with this GM anymore.

Open-mindedness is not always good. An Open mind is an easily manipulated mind.

[Giant2005]

Tell him that it is from the books, he just doesn't know about it because his character has never read the books.

[Noon]

Or "I said the game would be Robotech only , but last adventure you fought Splugorth, the one before that you teleported to the PBFRPG world, and now I'm bringing in mechanoids".

I'll focus on this since it seems relevant to the OP.

it's why it is always important for a GM and the players to talk about the campaign beforehand. I didn't say the group should drop the GM after 1 minute or 1 session. Sometimes were after months of trying to tolerate their BS each Friday.

Yeah, but this isn't really any reason for the GM to change.

It's only if a group starts pressing the idea that they'll leave, as leverage on the GM, that it's a reason (but also a problematic reason).

Open-mindedness is not always good. An Open mind is an easily manipulated mind.

It depends - if they are really open minded, they would consider the suggestion they are being manipulated and not just close the case and conclude they aren't.

Sure, it takes a lil more effort, but it's the people who are certain who are the most thoroughly manipulated.