Closing Devil's Gate

[cornholioprime]

Ok had an amusing thought
If you had a number of LLW's each cast the 'Ley Line Shut Down' spell at the same time, on every ley line leading to the Gate, could you them blow up the gate?
Just occured to me this morning, despite the impossibility of a) gettimg enough LLW, b) Enough PPE and c) getting the Coalition to work with the casters to time it right.

I was thinking about how many of the Coalition's issues could be solved with magic if they'd lighten up on human mages, and that clever plan popped in my head.

The Devil's Gate is an indestructible, un-closable Plot Device.

It is stated in canon to be made indestructible in pretty much the same way that the magical energies in a Rune Sword make it indestructible.


Perhaps you COULD try to recreate the Atlantean Experiment of 25,000 years ago and reduce the planet's magic to the point where the Arch is just a stone structure once again, but nobody (living) knows how to replicate the effect, and there's no assurance whatsoever that the Experiment will go the way that you want it to go.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The arch itself is indestructable, but it's also implied the whole thing relies on the super nexus.

If you could drain the nexus, somehow, it should work. Heck, one of my rifts groups managed to do that just a couple weeks ago. Of course, we used a First Race Artifact that needed a super nexus just to power on, so it's a case of superior claim.

A few mages casting a regular invocation, i'm not sure about.

[Bobboky]

Or you could pull a Stargate and put some sort of shield in front and back of it... then anything that came through would go splat... with magic you might even be able to make it selective about who and what goes splat.

[cornholioprime]

Damn...now I'm mixed up again on which Super-Rift is which.

In which book is the Devil's Gate located?

The reason why I ask is because I want to know whether or not the St. Louis Arch is empowered in the same way that the Calgary Rift is.

If the Devil's Arch is powered from the "outside" -that is, fed by the Ley Lines, then it should indeed be technically and officially possible by the Rules As Written (and probably easier than we all might think) to shut it down, even right under the Coalition's nose....but if it's powered in the same manner as the Calgary Rift is, then it wouldn't matter how many Ley Lines were shut down.

[Dr. Doom III]

Build a large box or "form" around it and fill said form with concrete.
Gate closed.

[cornholioprime]

Ok had an amusing thought
If you had a number of LLW's each cast the 'Ley Line Shut Down' spell at the same time, on every ley line leading to the Gate, could you them blow up the gate?
Just occured to me this morning, despite the impossibility of a) gettimg enough LLW, b) Enough PPE and c) getting the Coalition to work with the casters to time it right.

I was thinking about how many of the Coalition's issues could be solved with magic if they'd lighten up on human mages, and that clever plan popped in my head.

UPDATE:

According to Rifts: Aftermath, page 97, the Arch is empowered and 'hardened' by its merging with a Dimensional Portal, in pretty much the same way as a Rune Weapon is empowered and 'hardened' by its merging with a living being.

As such, the Devil's Gate is indestructible no matter how many Ley Lines connecting to it are shut down, because they aren't feeding the super-Rift, they are only connected to it.
(Due to the description behind how this gate is built, it doesn't even seem to be an absolute certainty that the Gate would be shut down even if and when Earth's megaversal magic levels go back down over the course of eons.)

[cornholioprime]

Build a large box or "form" around it and fill said form with concrete.
Gate closed.

Not possible.

The Arch REGULARLY sends out pulses of ultra-powerful concentrated magical energy that routinely destroys the mega-damage fortifications that the RCSG repeatedly builds and rebuilds around it.

[glitterboy2098]

Build a large box or "form" around it and fill said form with concrete.
Gate closed.

Not possible.

The Arch REGULARLY sends out pulses of ultra-powerful concentrated magical energy that routinely destroys the mega-damage fortifications that the RCSG repeatedly builds and rebuilds around it.

[citation needed]

[cornholioprime]

Build a large box or "form" around it and fill said form with concrete.
Gate closed.

Not possible.

The Arch REGULARLY sends out pulses of ultra-powerful concentrated magical energy that routinely destroys the mega-damage fortifications that the RCSG repeatedly builds and rebuilds around it.

[citation needed]

Probably in the same Book.

Without looking it up, I remember Alistair Dunscon laughing at their repeated attempts to try and seal it. I also remember something about them finally giving up on the effort at one point because their "Awesome Technological Dome Of Magical Containment" kept getting breached with ease by random magical eruptions from the rift/gate.

[glitterboy2098]

first, if you make a definitive statement like that, and someone asks where you got that info, "probably" isn't a good choice of words. nor is admitting that you don't know where you got that info.

that said, you are partially correct. page 97, 2nd column of Aftermath says that after the CS airlifted their containment building into place (right after the siege on tolkien started), there were three occasions where the gateway swelled or erupted causing it to blow the roof off the building.
i would hardly say that represents "regular" however, since we don't have specific dates, or info on whether the gateway had been shifting like that prior to the CS's efforts to contain and manipulate it. column 1 of the same page talks about how the RSCG was trying to find ways to "channel or disperse the ley line energy if not actually close the rift". indicating they are poking and proding it and exposing it to various energy fields and other experiments. which IMO seems to be a likely reason for the gateway to erupt or expand.

and the CS hasn't given up on the gateway containment. according to aftermath, while the containment building (which IMo can't be all that sturdy given that it was modular and airlifted into place in only 2 weeks) has been damaged 3 times, the CS command points to 9372 creatures they've kept from getting to earth, and 'countless others' which turned and ran back through, as a sign that their efforts are successful.

it also says that duscon's FoM has pretty much ignored the CS's efforts, believing the closing of the gateway to be futile, and they don't consider the gateway to be worth fighting for, since there are plenty of other nexi they can use.

[Illendaver]

Hmm, well so much for my idea.

Now it would be funny if you could *move* the arch.

*Coalition drops the arch into the Maranaris (sp?) trench*
"It's his problem now.

If you could move it around, that would be a better weapon than a nuke. "Tick us off bad enough and we will put a gateway to hell outside of your house untill you are gone"

[Nightmask]

Given there are methods around for destroying, not simply containing, rune weapons then the St. Louise Arch Rift should also be capable of being destroyed under the right circumstances. It does however require a GM willing to actually let the PC group discover and implement the means of its permanent closing. If a race can come up with a ritual that permanently closed every rift on their entire planet a single super-rift should be vulnerable to a carefully worked out ritual particularly if it made use of several magical disciplines to create this unique spell. Would make for a nice epic quest for the PC group in any case.

[glitterboy2098]

most methods to destroy 'indestructible items' wouldn't be applicable to the arch though. that cauldron in WB3 for example, is way too small. Mystic Knuzya can destroy their own creations, but not those made by others. not sure what other methods are out there.
the arch is not a crafted item in the same sense as a rune weapon or mystic knuzya item, and it is absolutely huge. making finding a solution that much harder.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Odin could break it with his Spear...

[Killer Cyborg]

Hmm, well so much for my idea.

Now it would be funny if you could *move* the arch.

*Coalition drops the arch into the Maranaris (sp?) trench*
"It's his problem now.

Actually, that was my thought.
But the thing weighs like 38,000 tons.
And we don't know how much exactly is indestructible. It might be just the arch, but it might also include the underground facilities as well. In fact, it probably would, otherwise the thing could be pushed over, snapping it off at the base.
It might even include some of the ground around the arch, although there's no way to say.

So you'd need one heck of a lot of lifting power!

The CS could probably do it... but only if they run out of other fish to fry, and that's not likely to happen soon.

[Nightmask]

Phase World (naturally) provides 4 answers.

1. Have a Demon Star or Dominator ship eat it.
2. Use the ritual the saurian guys used to seal their planet's PPE on it.
3. Second Stage Prometheans use several spacegates to jump the arch into deep space.
4. Use a gravitic tractor beam to pull the entire ground around the arch up and then tow it to the Kreeghor homeworld.

Or if, you want a Robotech bent, Use the SDF-1 (or two, or three's, or Robotech Master's main gun) main reflex cannon to blow the entire state of Missouri into the sea. You still have at least 49 other states you can claim for territory. Besides, who's going to miss Missouri?

Castlerake from Palladium Fantasy could destroy it, depending on how you like your trump card. Or awaken Thoth back into an Old One, and he uses the portal for a new invasion and war against life itself.

The Reflex cannons aren't going to have any effect on the gate, so all you'll have is a crater with the gate at the bottom. But given it would probably be buried in lava it certainly wouldn't be a problem but it's really not worth the environmental damage and death.

[ZorValachan]

Perhaps you COULD try to recreate the Atlantean Experiment of 25,000 years ago and reduce the planet's magic to the point where the Arch is just a stone structure once again, but nobody (living) knows how to replicate the effect, and there's no assurance whatsoever that the Experiment will go the way that you want it to go.

The arch couldn't 'become a stone structure once again...', because it was never a stone structure. It is metal.

Source: I was born and raised in the St. Louis area. Been to the Arch many times.

[Nightmask]

Perhaps you COULD try to recreate the Atlantean Experiment of 25,000 years ago and reduce the planet's magic to the point where the Arch is just a stone structure once again, but nobody (living) knows how to replicate the effect, and there's no assurance whatsoever that the Experiment will go the way that you want it to go.

The arch couldn't 'become a stone structure once again...', because it was never a stone structure. It is metal.

Source: I was born and raised in the St. Louis area. Been to the Arch many times.

Not seeing how someone could ever get the impression that the Arch were stone, certainly it looks metallic anytime you see it and nothing about it should suggest there's any stonework in its construction (outside the steel-reinforced concrete it's anchored to). I remember watching a PBS show regarding its construction, including how you couldn't recreate it if/when it falls due to the construction restrictions in place today that weren't at the time.

[Daeglan]

Build a pyramid to control and stabilize the nexus and rift?

[Killer Cyborg]

Build a pyramid to control and stabilize the nexus and rift?

The only way i can see that is if you built a pyramid big enough to surrpund the gate. (And maybe pyramids on what realities the gate breaches. not impossible but definitely epic on scope.

That's an idea.
I can't find anything specifically stating that a pyramid blocks rifts/teleportation/whatever from outside (non-pyramid) sources, but I could see a GM ruling that way.

[glitterboy2098]

pyramids don't block rifts, but they do control them. building a pyramid large enough to hold the gateway arch in it's rift-room might allow you control where the gateway-rift goes.
if you build smaller pyramids on all the nearby nexi you could effectivelly pacify the whole area.

that said, a pyramid that large would be the size of a mountain.. not sure you could build something that big and have it retain the pyramid traits.

[psam_rage]

On the topic of it being like a ruin weapon: I know I read something about the demigod or godling daughter of Gilgamesh or Odin (cant remember which) that tried to use the coming of the rifts to supercharge her power and was performing the ritual of energy transfer in the Arch causing the ley lines to shift slightly from the nearby nexus to the arch, which burned her out and killed her.

I think it was in a rifter.

[Slight001]

On the topic of it being like a ruin weapon: I know I read something about the demigod or godling daughter of Gilgamesh or Odin (cant remember which) that tried to use the coming of the rifts to supercharge her power and was performing the ritual of energy transfer in the Arch causing the ley lines to shift slightly from the nearby nexus to the arch, which burned her out and killed her.

I think it was in a rifter.

The Rifter #37 page 61 and on... sadly it's just optional material.

[cornholioprime]

Build a pyramid to control and stabilize the nexus and rift?

Pyramids don't work that way.

They control, and possibly eliminate, the appearance of random Rifts, not (by the wording in Rifts: Atlantis) do anything to alter or control an existing, stable Rift such as the Devil's Gate.

Actually, Pyramids don't actually seem to be able to affect stable, permanent Rifts at all.

[Killer Cyborg]

Build a pyramid to control and stabilize the nexus and rift?

Pyramids don't work that way.

They control, and possibly eliminate, the appearance of random Rifts, not (by the wording in Rifts: Atlantis) do anything to alter or control an existing, stable Rift such as the Devil's Gate.

Actually, Pyramids don't actually seem to be able to affect stable, permanent Rifts at all.

They can also open rifts.
You might be able to use the pyramid to open a rift in the arch, controlling where that rift goes to.
Or not.
GM's call how pyramids interact with the Arch.

[cornholioprime]

Build a pyramid to control and stabilize the nexus and rift?

Pyramids don't work that way.

They control, and possibly eliminate, the appearance of random Rifts, not (by the wording in Rifts: Atlantis) do anything to alter or control an existing, stable Rift such as the Devil's Gate.

Actually, Pyramids don't actually seem to be able to affect stable, permanent Rifts at all.

They can also open rifts.
You might be able to use the pyramid to open a rift in the arch, controlling where that rift goes to.
Or not.
GM's call how pyramids interact with the Arch.

Eh?


The Arch IS the Rift, and the Rift is the Arch.
It's the melding of the two that makes the Devil's Gate indestructible.

(Rifts: Aftermath, page 97.)

[Killer Cyborg]

Build a pyramid to control and stabilize the nexus and rift?

Pyramids don't work that way.

They control, and possibly eliminate, the appearance of random Rifts, not (by the wording in Rifts: Atlantis) do anything to alter or control an existing, stable Rift such as the Devil's Gate.

Actually, Pyramids don't actually seem to be able to affect stable, permanent Rifts at all.

They can also open rifts.
You might be able to use the pyramid to open a rift in the arch, controlling where that rift goes to.
Or not.
GM's call how pyramids interact with the Arch.

Eh?


The Arch IS the Rift, and the Rift is the Arch.
It's the melding of the two that makes the Devil's Gate indestructible.

(Rifts: Aftermath, page 97.)

Hm.
I thought that the Arch periodically opened up Rifts in it, that it wasn't one continuous rift as the Aftermath passage implies.
What other books have addressed the Arch?

[sirkermittsg]

the saint louis arch is both concrete and steel. the walls are hollow and filled with concrete for a good ways up each side. there is indeed and underground portion to it as well. the legs are burried quite deep and there is an underground visitor center that allows you access to elevators going up inside of the arch in either leg of it. I personaly would qualify the arch as a modern MDC structure. the stainless steels walls are VERY thick. I have been inside of it up to the top to look out over the city of saint louis...very facinating place.

In game terms if I were gonna try to take it out, I would fill the hollow legs with nuclear bombs...and BOOM.

[Prysus]

The Arch IS the Rift, and the Rift is the Arch.
It's the melding of the two that makes the Devil's Gate indestructible.

(Rifts: Aftermath, page 97.)

Hm.
I thought that the Arch periodically opened up Rifts in it, that it wasn't one continuous rift as the Aftermath passage implies.
What other books have addressed the Arch?

Greetings and Salutations. Well, upon Killer Cyborg's request, I started to look into the question of where else it might be mentioned. Well, there are three books I can find (besides Aftermath). A few quotes (just for fun) ...

The Devil's Gate, located across the Mississipi River ...
[snip]
... during the Great Cataclysm, a dimensional portal opened up and permanently fused with the Gateway Arch.
[snip]
... the Devil's Gate remains a doorway to other worlds to this day.

This paragraph (and the next) can be found similarly in Aftermath, Rifts main book (original), and RUE. There might be a few minor differences, but mostly thet same (if not exactly). Note: That's two of the other references right there.

Here, it mentions it's permanently fused, but also mentions that it's a gateway to worlds. That's plural, so more than one world and might help indicate it not being one continuous rift, but periodically. Also, while it mentions the portal is permanently fused with the archway, it doesn't really say it's constantly active (maybe it's locked to a single location and just occasionally opens?). I'll come back to this topic (and Aftermath) in just a moment. But first ...

Re-Open Gateway
[snip]
The Re-Open Gateway spell enables the sorcerer to "re-open" an already existing and active, or permanent, dimensional portal. This includes ... [snip] ... the Devil's Gate in St. Louis, and The Monster's Rift in Calgary ...

Now this one mentions re-opening, which means it has to close (right?). Of course, it also mentions it has to be an active or permanent portal so ...

Note: This is the last book I mentioned. The spell can also be found in Federation of Magic (original edition), it's original source I believe, and probably any other place the spell is found.

During the early days of the Siege on Tolkeen
[snip]
RCSG Scientists desperately try to figure out ways to channel and disperse the ley line energy if not actually close the permanent Rift.

Now here it mentions "permanent Rift." That's singular. It also mentions that it's a rift ... which to me makes it clearer that this is a rift that's always open (I think?). While a dimensional portal is basically a rift, something about saying a dimensional portal fused to an object just comes off like it might be more open to interpretation (at least to me).

The Devil's Gate is believed to be connected to 42 different worlds which teh portal regularly cycles through ...

Connected with the previous versions, this line leads me to believe the following ...

There's always a rift open in the archway (one, singular).
Where that rift leads changes periodically to various worlds (multiple worlds, and probably at no set intervals, though the latter is unsupported).
Re-Open Gateway always a mage to change the destination of the rift to the last location.

Random thought: With proper planning, a mage could properly control the Devil's Gateway, unless it's changing like every minute. But, if it's changing like every day or every few days (sometimes maybe a few hours, but usually longer), then using Re-Open Gateway could help to keep the Devil's Gate on a friendly territory. This would involve planning and some exploring. Even if you can't see through the rift (and I suspect you can), you can still use other methods to monitor things. Once you find a world you don't view as a threat, you can do things like set up a remote camera on the other side. Have someone monitor the camera. Once the feed is cut, cast "Re-Open Gateway." The portal changes back to the world you think is best, and your camera feed re-established. Since you're on a nexus, PPE is easy to re-charge (and/or gather for the spell).

Anyways, just some information. If you think I've come to any of the wrong conclusions, feel free to let me know. If I missed any quotes that change things (or even support this), feel free to add them. Though I think that's all for now. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Hotrod]

Possibilities:

1. Knock it over? it may be indestructible, but it's connected to something that isn't. Orienting it upwards would make entries fall back in the rifts. Auto-cannons could shoot down fliers that emerge. Not a permanent solution, but it might work.

2. Drain it? Build pyramids on every connecting ley line. Perhaps they could sap the energies that support the rift.

3. Nazca line makers can create and extend ley lines in a way that 're-shapes' the Earth's magical fields. Could they re-shape the fields in such a way that the ley lines to this super-nexus are moved or destroyed?

4. Let's say it doesn't depend on any energy to keep itself open. It's basically a massive rune weapon with a permanent rift built in. Ok, then open an even bigger rift right underneath it! Can you put a rift through a rift? I dunno, but it'll be fun to try.

5. Bury it? Works like #1, except then you have to worry about tunnelers who might come through.

6. Hire an army of Scathatch's to make another containment building THAT IS ALSO A CAULDRON OF DESTRUCTION! Pop it upside-down on the rift, light a campfire on top, and simmer for a few days.

7. Write a six-part Battle of Devil's Gate series and have General Holmes save the day at the end and wipe out the gate. Nothing overcomes plot protection like plot protection!

[Killer Cyborg]

Thank you, Pyrus.
I seem to recall a couple of books discussing a CS base there that was attempting to contain the stuff coming from the arch.
Any idea what book(s) that might be?

[cornholioprime]

Thank you, Pyrus.
I seem to recall a couple of books discussing a CS base there that was attempting to contain the stuff coming from the arch.
Any idea what book(s) that might be?

Rifts: Aftermath, page 97.

On at least three occasions, a surge from the rift blew the lid off the mega-damage bunker they tried to build around it.

[ZorValachan]

What Prysus Detailed always gave me the assumption that the door/tunnel/pathway of the Devil's Gate rift has the 'to' part always there and open, it is the 'from' part that changes.

[cornholioprime]

What Prysus Detailed always gave me the assumption that the door/tunnel/pathway of the Devil's Gate rift has the 'to' part always there and open, it is the 'from' part that changes.

It might not be, because the "Re-Open Portal" spell that he referenced specifically mentioned the Devil's Gate as something that it would work on.

Meaning that it might not always be "open" even though it's always "active."

[ZorValachan]

In the description it is "re-open" with quotes, so may be taken as figurative. If the from end moves/closes the Arch end doesn't need to close.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. Well, I've continued to glance around for references (mind you, I don't play Rifts and I don't really read their books, even though I do have them all for reference as a PB fan and as a G.M./crossover stuff). I've found an additional reference in ...

Coalition War Campaign, page 40 (RCSG): Not much here, but it does talk a bit more about the containment center. Didn't get the impression from the other sources, but here it sounds like it's basically like the Chi-Town city fortress, only designed to contain instead of keep out. I somehow find that interesting, and maybe a bit creepier now imagining having that assignment (because I'd guess those assigned are inside the containment center, so more of a monster movie type feel, at least in my head).

Coalition War Campaign, page 82 (RCSG Scientist OCC): Another Devil's Gate reference, though I find this one mostly the same as above and a little less informative (on the specifics), but does mention some of the commonly found support troops for containment.

Note: These two references aren't all that useful for the topic at hand, but they are still Devil's Gate references, and even more useful if anyone was to run a game at that location.

Rifts Canada, page 95: Not an actual Devil's Gate reference, just the Calgary Rift reference. I looked here because the two seem to be often talked about together. While they don't mention the Devil's Gate, they do mention the Calgary Rift has "fluctuating activity." This (may) carry over, or it may not (though some people may have carried it over in their minds regardless). Just mentioning it for the sake of trying to be thorough.

Coalition Navy, page 23 (Fort Girardeau and Hannibal): Brief, and probably not very enlightening, but I'm trying to be thorough here.

Rifter #37; page 61, The RCSG, Ft. Laredo, and the East St. Louis Rift (Optional): Rifter material is optional, and this is NOT listed as official (for the record). I'm including it here to be thorough (again). I'll note that I did NOT read this article, but something that jumped out at me in annoyance is an inaccuracy. Aftermath, page 97, mentions that it's connected to 42 worlds. In the Rifter article, it says 28. Before anyone asks, Aftermath came out in 2002 and Rifter 37 in 2007. I don't read Rifts books, and I caught this mistake in like 5 seconds. That's NOT good, and makes me fear for this article. For note: It might be really good, I don't know. Though it's written by Matthew Olfson, the same guy who wrote The Coalition Edge, so take that for what you will.

Anyways, I think I'm kind of tired of looking at this point. After all, I'm basically randomly looking. If someone has a good suggestion, I might put in some effort (but I wouldn't count on it). Again, I don't play Rifts or read the books, so this is really just an exercise in research for me (and a chance to learn a bit more) and my curiosity only goes so far on its own. I think that's all for now. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Tor]

Odin could break it with his Spear...

I dunno, what if the Gate somehow is on the level of a Greatest Rune Weapon?

3. Nazca line makers can create and extend ley lines in a way that 're-shapes' the Earth's magical fields. Could they re-shape the fields in such a way that the ley lines to this super-nexus are moved or destroyed?

I'm only aware of secret patterns to create/extend, not to move/destroy. I suppose GMs could invent those though.

[Killer Cyborg]

Greetings and Salutations. Well, I've continued to glance around for references (mind you, I don't play Rifts and I don't really read their books, even though I do have them all for reference as a PB fan and as a G.M./crossover stuff). I've found an additional reference in ...

Coalition War Campaign, page 40 (RCSG): Not much here, but it does talk a bit more about the containment center. Didn't get the impression from the other sources, but here it sounds like it's basically like the Chi-Town city fortress, only designed to contain instead of keep out. I somehow find that interesting, and maybe a bit creepier now imagining having that assignment (because I'd guess those assigned are inside the containment center, so more of a monster movie type feel, at least in my head).

Coalition War Campaign, page 82 (RCSG Scientist OCC): Another Devil's Gate reference, though I find this one mostly the same as above and a little less informative (on the specifics), but does mention some of the commonly found support troops for containment.

Note: These two references aren't all that useful for the topic at hand, but they are still Devil's Gate references, and even more useful if anyone was to run a game at that location.

Rifts Canada, page 95: Not an actual Devil's Gate reference, just the Calgary Rift reference. I looked here because the two seem to be often talked about together. While they don't mention the Devil's Gate, they do mention the Calgary Rift has "fluctuating activity." This (may) carry over, or it may not (though some people may have carried it over in their minds regardless). Just mentioning it for the sake of trying to be thorough.

Coalition Navy, page 23 (Fort Girardeau and Hannibal): Brief, and probably not very enlightening, but I'm trying to be thorough here.

Rifter #37; page 61, The RCSG, Ft. Laredo, and the East St. Louis Rift (Optional): Rifter material is optional, and this is NOT listed as official (for the record). I'm including it here to be thorough (again). I'll note that I did NOT read this article, but something that jumped out at me in annoyance is an inaccuracy. Aftermath, page 97, mentions that it's connected to 42 worlds. In the Rifter article, it says 28. Before anyone asks, Aftermath came out in 2002 and Rifter 37 in 2007. I don't read Rifts books, and I caught this mistake in like 5 seconds. That's NOT good, and makes me fear for this article. For note: It might be really good, I don't know. Though it's written by Matthew Olfson, the same guy who wrote The Coalition Edge, so take that for what you will.

Anyways, I think I'm kind of tired of looking at this point. After all, I'm basically randomly looking. If someone has a good suggestion, I might put in some effort (but I wouldn't count on it). Again, I don't play Rifts or read the books, so this is really just an exercise in research for me (and a chance to learn a bit more) and my curiosity only goes so far on its own. I think that's all for now. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

Much appreciated!

[Nekira Sudacne]

Odin could break it with his Spear...

I dunno, what if the Gate somehow is on the level of a Greatest Rune Weapon?

Because that's explicitly impossible. you need rune magic to be a rune weapon. You can become indestructable without being a rune weapon (heck any alchmist can make an indestructable sword, it's time consuming but not especially difficult).

[Bobboky]

I sometimes think of them (permanent rifts, but especially the two mentioned above) more as escape valves or arteries... If valves, they will remain forced open as long as there is "too much" P.P.E. on Rifts earth. They are "impossible" to close because they have the full force of the worlds P.P.E. rushing through them (just as it can be really really hard to close a valve when it is gushing without the correct equipment and/or tools). Or if they are artieries they are part of a revolving current of P.P.E. that enters and exits the world constantly refreshing the P.P.E. of Rifts Earth as well as other worlds to which it is connected. Either way they are stabilizing forces and if closed there will be dire and interesting consequences, both short and long term.