Horror in Rifts.

[Daeglan]

How to get things scary and horrific. A thread to spin the horror stuff from the new releases thread.

[Greyaxe]

First the players must like and be engaged with their characters. If the charters are not important to the player no degree of horror will impact them.

Second. Once the players have an investment in the characters the players must be acutely aware that they are in real danger, or feel genuinely threatened. Don't be too subtle or the players won’t get it and again not care.

Third, follow through from time to time. The players must believe the GM will kill of important NPC's players, buildings, equipment etc. If the players get emotional over their experiences in character it was a great game.

I find the description of smell and sound particularly effective in my group for creating the right atmosphere for horror. The unseen is by far the most scary thing.

[flatline]

Put them up against stuff that they haven't read the stats for. Fear of the unknown is the most basic element of horror.

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

Put them up against stuff that they haven't read the stats for. Fear of the unknown is the most basic element of horror.

--flatline

Or put them up against stuff that looks like the stuff they have read the stats for, but isn't.

[Daeglan]

Put them up against stuff that they haven't read the stats for. Fear of the unknown is the most basic element of horror.

--flatline

Or put them up against stuff that looks like the stuff they have read the stats for, but isn't.

That is one thing I find kind of annoying. Everytime I want to use something I have to roll up the stats. Because they are never ready to use in the books. A little off topic but something I noticed.

How would you guys turn up the PG rating of Rifts to R? IE how would you make Vampires, Spyncrynth etc more horrific?

[Killer Cyborg]

How would you guys turn up the PG rating of Rifts to R? IE how would you make Vampires, Spyncrynth etc more horrific?

You don't have to make them more horrific to get an R rating.
Just be more explicit in explaining mega-damage's effects on SDC targets.
1 MD inflicted to a normal human is going to to realistically end up with gorier results than most horror movie deaths.

[Daeglan]

How would you guys turn up the PG rating of Rifts to R? IE how would you make Vampires, Spyncrynth etc more horrific?

You don't have to make them more horrific to get an R rating.
Just be more explicit in explaining mega-damage's effects on SDC targets.
1 MD inflicted to a normal human is going to to realistically end up with gorier results than most horror movie deaths.

That is gore. Not horror. I am not talking about splatter horror. As that is not horror or scary. Specifically this thread is about HORROR.

[Natasha]

How would you guys turn up the PG rating of Rifts to R? IE how would you make Vampires, Spyncrynth etc more horrific?

You don't have to make them more horrific to get an R rating.
Just be more explicit in explaining mega-damage's effects on SDC targets.
1 MD inflicted to a normal human is going to to realistically end up with gorier results than most horror movie deaths.

That is gore. Not horror. I am not talking about splatter horror. As that is not horror or scary. Specifically this thread is about HORROR.

The players have to be uncomfortable in their characters’ skins. That starts with caring about their characters as was already said. Horror is a challenge to emotional and physical security. Whether a sense of unknown or hopelessness.

Start by keeping the scope small; when characters are contained then they have to focus on where they are more singularly because the flight response has been removed.

[Daeglan]

How would you guys turn up the PG rating of Rifts to R? IE how would you make Vampires, Spyncrynth etc more horrific?

You don't have to make them more horrific to get an R rating.
Just be more explicit in explaining mega-damage's effects on SDC targets.
1 MD inflicted to a normal human is going to to realistically end up with gorier results than most horror movie deaths.

That is gore. Not horror. I am not talking about splatter horror. As that is not horror or scary. Specifically this thread is about HORROR.

The players have to be uncomfortable in their characters’ skins. That starts with caring about their characters as was already said. Horror is a challenge to emotional and physical security. Whether a sense of unknown or hopelessness.

Start by keeping the scope small; when characters are contained then they have to focus on where they are more singularly because the flight response has been removed.

I get and understand that. I was asking about how to make these entities more horrific.

[flatline]

If you can threaten things that the characters value but that the characters can't easily round up to protect directly, that sets everyone on edge just because there's no way to know if something is okay without risking whatever it is that you're protecting now.

--flatline

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Mad haven is a good example once you drop most of the goofy mutants, but it depends on what type of horror you are going for.

[Natasha]

How would you guys turn up the PG rating of Rifts to R? IE how would you make Vampires, Spyncrynth etc more horrific?

You don't have to make them more horrific to get an R rating.
Just be more explicit in explaining mega-damage's effects on SDC targets.
1 MD inflicted to a normal human is going to to realistically end up with gorier results than most horror movie deaths.

That is gore. Not horror. I am not talking about splatter horror. As that is not horror or scary. Specifically this thread is about HORROR.

The players have to be uncomfortable in their characters’ skins. That starts with caring about their characters as was already said. Horror is a challenge to emotional and physical security. Whether a sense of unknown or hopelessness.

Start by keeping the scope small; when characters are contained then they have to focus on where they are more singularly because the flight response has been removed.

I get and understand that. I was asking about how to make these entities more horrific.

Well it depends from your game and the players and their characters. I do not know how to menace your players’ characters’ sense of emotional and physical security. I can just say that if they are not afraid of being tossed into a pit with a monster, then you might have the wrong monster. When the characters must go through and cannot go around, then the setup becomes important. Give them rumours and misinformation about what they are about to go through and so forth.

I am reminded of the scene in I am Legend when his dog runs into the building and he freaks out knowing he has to go get his dog. Horror in gaming requires some buy-in from the players and if their characters are not afraid of anything, then you need to kick the snot out of their characters time from time. If they are going into a dark rooms without thinking about being eaten by a grue, then the GM has to teach them the lesson.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Sub gene of horror films http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horror_film

Action Horror - A subgenre combining the intrusion of an evil force, event, or supernatural personage of horror movies with the gunfights and frenetic chases of the action genre. Themes or elements often prevalent in typical action-horror films include gore, demons, vicious animals, vampires and, most commonly, zombies. This category also fuses the fantasy genre. Examples include Resident Evil, Ghost Rider, Planet Terror, Undead, Doomsday, Underworld,[29] Constantine, Priest, Dawn of the Dead, Deep Rising, From Dusk till Dawn, Blade, Legion and End of Days.[30]
Body horror – In which the horror is principally derived from the graphic destruction or degeneration of the body. Other types of body horror include unnatural movements, or the anatomically incorrect placement of limbs to create 'monsters' out of human body parts. David Cronenberg is one of the notable directors of the genre. Some body horror films include Altered States, The Invasion, The Fly, Rosemary's Baby, Eraserhead, The Thing, Re-Animator, Hellraiser, Videodrome, Cabin Fever, Virus and Teeth.
Comedy horror – Combines the elements of comedy and horror fiction. The comedy horror genre almost always inevitably crosses over with the black comedy genre. The short story "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow" by Washington Irving is cited as "the first great comedy-horror story".[31] Examples include An American Werewolf in London, The Rocky Horror Picture Show, Gremlins, Bad Taste, Braindead, Beetlejuice, Arachnophobia, Terror Firmer, Eight Legged Freaks, Shaun of the Dead, Evil Dead II, Tucker & Dale vs Evil, and Slither.
Gothic horror – Gothic horror is a type of story that contains elements of goth and horror. At times it may have romance that unfolds in the setting of a horror tale, usually suspenseful. Some of the earliest horror movies were of this sub-genre. Examples include universal horror films such as The Phantom of the Opera, Dracula, Frankenstein and The Mummy. Modern gothic horrors include Sleepy Hollow, Interview with the Vampire, Underworld, The Wolfman, From Hell, Dorian Gray, Let Me In and The Woman in Black.
Natural horror – A sub-genre of horror films "featuring nature running amok in the form of mutated beasts, carnivorous insects, and normally harmless animals or plants turned into cold-blooded killers."[32] This genre may sometimes overlap with the science fiction and action/adventure genre. Examples include The Birds, Black Sheep, Jaws, Mimic, Deep Rising, Them!, The Swarm, Pet Sematary, Lake Placid, Primeval, Anaconda, Snakes on a Plane, The Cave, Piranha 3D and The Ruins.
Psychological horror – Relies on characters' fears, guilt, beliefs, eerie sound effects, relevant music, emotional instability and at times, the supernatural and ghosts, to build tension and further the plot. Examples include The Uninvited, Dark Water, Gothika, The Ring, The Grudge, The Exorcist, Session 9, Silent Hill, The Others, The Mothman Prophecies, The Blair Witch Project, 1408, The Shining, Stir of Echoes, The Innocents, Frailty, The Changeling, and The Sixth Sense.
Science Fiction horror – Often revolves around subjects that include but are not limited to killer aliens, mad scientists, and/or experiments gone wrong. Examples include Alien, Pandorum, The Fly, Event Horizon, Apollo 18, Doom, Pitch Black, The Mist, and It Came from Outer Space.
Slasher film – Often revolves around a psychopathic killer stalking and killing a sequence of victims in a graphically violent manner, mainly with a cutting tool such as a knife or axe. Slasher films may at times overlap with the crime, mystery and thriller genre, and they are not all of the horror genre. Examples of this genre include Psycho, Black Christmas, Halloween, The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, Prom Night, Scream, Pieces, Hatchet, Friday the 13th, Child's Play, Candyman, and A Nightmare on Elm Street.
Splatter film – These films deliberately focus on graphic portrayals of gore and graphic violence. Through the use of special effects and excessive blood and guts, they tend to display an overt interest in the vulnerability of the human body and the theatricality of its mutilation. Not all splatter films are slashers, and not all splatter films are horrors. Examples include Cannibal Holocaust, Piranha 3D, Blood Feast, Demons, Saw, Guinea Pig series, Hostel, Cannibal Ferox, Martyrs, Hobo with a Shotgun, Inside, Antichrist, The Collector, and The Midnight Meat Train.
Zombie film – Zombie films feature creatures who are usually portrayed as either reanimated corpses or mindless human beings. Distinct sub-genres have evolved, such as the "zombie comedy" or the "zombie apocalypse". Examples include,Dawn of the Dead, Day of the Dead, The Evil Dead,[33] I Am Legend, Dead Snow, Land of the Dead, Night of the Living Dead, Quarantine and The Return of the Living Dead.

[Eashamahel]

How do Vampires and Splugorth (of all kinds, but let's say Slavers in specific) need to be MORE horrific? They are horrifying in the extreme, if played that way, or alternatively can be comic book style villains, if that's more to your players tastes.

Vampires seem to not get much respect, but they are crazy to consider. Starting with the Wild vampire, a berserk, blood drinking monster that is only one step off from a rotting corpse. It actually radiates evil. Not just scariness, not just it's smell or appearance, not just to psychic sensitives or Dog boys, but radiates a palpable evil that is apparant to anyone. It wants to destroy you, and not just that, but eat you as well. It comes in the night, has incredibly powers of stealth/travel/disguise, and seems to only want to kill and destroy. It can hardly be reasoned with, and will destroy things just for fun. Come night time, there's nearly no defence against them, they can hunt an area for days, but can just as easily show up and wipe out an entire community in a single night completely without warning. They bite and scratch and claw, can get in almost anywhere, and oh yeah, for all those who are fearlessly toting vibro-blades and automatic, city ending future tech weapons, you basically cannot hurt them. You are limited to a few extremely odd pieces of gear to fight them with. Better hope you always have them on hand.

Playing up the swarming, pack of wild dog mentality of them makes them intense. I've been inside a house when wild dogs have tried to get in, they gnash at you, slam themselves into doors and make a helluva lot of noise, and even if they can't get in, they are so intense you have to wonder if there is someway they might. Besides, even if you are armed against them when they DO get in, the chances of you killing them all before they swarm you, let alone get to anyone else, are minimal. And dogs lack that last element, that human element that lets them do things humans can, which are be evil and yet relateable.

That's only Wild Vampires, but it shows why no one wants to venture into the Wild Vampire no-mans land that seperates most of the Americas from the Vampire Kingdom. I would argue that secondary vampires are even more horrific, just because there is more human left to them.

Consider the classic 'good' secondary Vampire for a second. There is no truly GOOD secondary Vampire. An unprincipled Vampire is one in whom the person (and they are people, Vampires, possessed, changed, mutated, but people still) can maintain an incredible amount of moral control, but all they really are is directed evil. They still prey on humans. They drink human blood. Perhaps, for now, they only drink from willing donors, but those donors will most likely eventually become slaves of the vampire. More likely, they drink from less desirable members of society, but for how long? It's only going to be a matter of time until they HAVE to drink from someone else, willingly or not. If they were truly 'good' they would wait for the sun to rise and not put anyone else in danger/harm anyone else, but they do not, because their drive to survive overwhelms them, which is why they are Unprincipled at absolute best. They have an unconquerable urge to survive, because inevitably, their lives are not their own, they are extensions of something ancient and unimaginable, and they can never escape that.


Consider what the enemies the characters are going against represent, and what they actually ARE, not just what kind of damage they do. The characters might be powerful, but if they care about people, they have a weakness, and a group of 'protectors' who survive the night/battle, but lose the people they were trying to protect (or half of them, even one of them), and that 'victory' seems hollow, defeat seems inevitable. Especially if the people/person lost comes back. Imagine a group trying to defend a wilderness village, who loses someone important to vampires, only for that person to come back as a 'Good' vampire. Maybe that vampire even helps them defeat the others, but then what? They can't go home, will the characters look after them from now on? Feed them? Will they eventually have to kill it? Because if they try, that 'good' vampire will fight back, or run. What happens to it if it is hurt/abandoned by it's link to humanity, where does it go? Maybe the next time that vampire is leading a pack against the wilderness town, with knowledge of the PC's, and it can be just as viscious/effective as the previous group of monsters, but with all the knowledge of the person it used to be.

Horror is everywhere in Rifts, it just needs to be emphasized.

[Daeglan]

You guys keep posting things about how to run horror games. That is not the question. The question is how to make the stuff in the books from PG horror to R horror. IE how do you make Splynn and Atlantis truly horrific and scary. How do you take Splynn for the PG level of horrible to the R level of horrible and disturbing and scary? Take things from twirling mustache evil to truly and disturbingly scary evil?

I am not talking about gore either. Gore is not scary.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

You guys keep posting things about how to run horror games. That is not the question. The question is how to make the stuff in the books from PG horror to R horror. IE how do you make Splynn and Atlantis truly horrific and scary. How do you take Splynn for the PG level of horrible to the R level of horrible and disturbing and scary? Take things from twirling mustache evil to truly and disturbingly scary evil?

I am not talking about gore either. Gore is not scary.

You got to know what your players fear and makes them tick, and depending on your style of gming and your need to set the mood, with lighting and sounds
My games are very psychological, I love to get in my players head and get them to fall for tricks and traps, they normally don't. Adds in using their own fears to my advantage as a GM

Splynncryth, well you don't show him to the characters as a whole being just parts of them, a limb shotting out of the dark and grabbing a slave right next to them and pulls the slave back to the darkness kicking and screaming, pleaing crying for help. Follow the sounds of flesh tearing and ripping and bones breaking and snapping, in dark, maybe blooding and tore clothes thrown back out at the players feet. As for disturbing, you have to go into details and get graphic with them, nothing freaks people out then that.

[Natasha]

You can lead a horse to water....

[Killer Cyborg]

You guys keep posting things about how to run horror games. That is not the question. The question is how to make the stuff in the books from PG horror to R horror.

There are no ratings for horror.
You can NOT get an R rating for being scary, only for nudity, swearing, violence, gore, etc.
So if that's not the stuff you're looking for, a different analogy would probably be in order.

IE how do you make Splynn and Atlantis truly horrific and scary. How do you take Splynn for the PG level of horrible to the R level of horrible and disturbing and scary? Take things from twirling mustache evil to truly and disturbingly scary evil?

You play them as horrible, disturbing, and scary, instead of as mustache-twirlers.
I know- that's probably not what you're looking for... but I can't really give you anything more than that without knowing more of what you want.
What DON'T you find horrible and scary about Splynn and Vampires as they are in the books...?

You're asking how to make things scarier, then saying not to post about how to run horror games.
Which seems like you're rejecting the very thing that you're asking for. So some further clarification is required before people can give you what you want.
So far, the tips on running horror games are exactly how you make Splynn scary.
Or vampires scary.
Or anything scary.
A good GM can show you fear in a handful of dust.
And they'll use the same techniques for that as they would for showing you fear in anything else.

[Daeglan]

How do Vampires and Splugorth (of all kinds, but let's say Slavers in specific) need to be MORE horrific? They are horrifying in the extreme, if played that way, or alternatively can be comic book style villains, if that's more to your players tastes.

Vampires seem to not get much respect, but they are crazy to consider. Starting with the Wild vampire, a berserk, blood drinking monster that is only one step off from a rotting corpse. It actually radiates evil. Not just scariness, not just it's smell or appearance, not just to psychic sensitives or Dog boys, but radiates a palpable evil that is apparant to anyone. It wants to destroy you, and not just that, but eat you as well. It comes in the night, has incredibly powers of stealth/travel/disguise, and seems to only want to kill and destroy. It can hardly be reasoned with, and will destroy things just for fun. Come night time, there's nearly no defence against them, they can hunt an area for days, but can just as easily show up and wipe out an entire community in a single night completely without warning. They bite and scratch and claw, can get in almost anywhere, and oh yeah, for all those who are fearlessly toting vibro-blades and automatic, city ending future tech weapons, you basically cannot hurt them. You are limited to a few extremely odd pieces of gear to fight them with. Better hope you always have them on hand.

Playing up the swarming, pack of wild dog mentality of them makes them intense. I've been inside a house when wild dogs have tried to get in, they gnash at you, slam themselves into doors and make a helluva lot of noise, and even if they can't get in, they are so intense you have to wonder if there is someway they might. Besides, even if you are armed against them when they DO get in, the chances of you killing them all before they swarm you, let alone get to anyone else, are minimal. And dogs lack that last element, that human element that lets them do things humans can, which are be evil and yet relateable.

That's only Wild Vampires, but it shows why no one wants to venture into the Wild Vampire no-mans land that seperates most of the Americas from the Vampire Kingdom. I would argue that secondary vampires are even more horrific, just because there is more human left to them.

Consider the classic 'good' secondary Vampire for a second. There is no truly GOOD secondary Vampire. An unprincipled Vampire is one in whom the person (and they are people, Vampires, possessed, changed, mutated, but people still) can maintain an incredible amount of moral control, but all they really are is directed evil. They still prey on humans. They drink human blood. Perhaps, for now, they only drink from willing donors, but those donors will most likely eventually become slaves of the vampire. More likely, they drink from less desirable members of society, but for how long? It's only going to be a matter of time until they HAVE to drink from someone else, willingly or not. If they were truly 'good' they would wait for the sun to rise and not put anyone else in danger/harm anyone else, but they do not, because their drive to survive overwhelms them, which is why they are Unprincipled at absolute best. They have an unconquerable urge to survive, because inevitably, their lives are not their own, they are extensions of something ancient and unimaginable, and they can never escape that.


Consider what the enemies the characters are going against represent, and what they actually ARE, not just what kind of damage they do. The characters might be powerful, but if they care about people, they have a weakness, and a group of 'protectors' who survive the night/battle, but lose the people they were trying to protect (or half of them, even one of them), and that 'victory' seems hollow, defeat seems inevitable. Especially if the people/person lost comes back. Imagine a group trying to defend a wilderness village, who loses someone important to vampires, only for that person to come back as a 'Good' vampire. Maybe that vampire even helps them defeat the others, but then what? They can't go home, will the characters look after them from now on? Feed them? Will they eventually have to kill it? Because if they try, that 'good' vampire will fight back, or run. What happens to it if it is hurt/abandoned by it's link to humanity, where does it go? Maybe the next time that vampire is leading a pack against the wilderness town, with knowledge of the PC's, and it can be just as viscious/effective as the previous group of monsters, but with all the knowledge of the person it used to be.

Horror is everywhere in Rifts, it just needs to be emphasized.

Stuff like this is what I am talking about.

[Daeglan]

Splynncryth, well you don't show him to the characters as a whole being just parts of them, a limb shotting out of the dark and grabbing a slave right next to them and pulls the slave back to the darkness kicking and screaming, pleaing crying for help. Follow the sounds of flesh tearing and ripping and bones breaking and snapping, in dark, maybe blooding and tore clothes thrown back out at the players feet. As for disturbing, you have to go into details and get graphic with them, nothing freaks people out then that.

Stuff like this.

But also what kinds of horrible things do these guys do to take them to the next level. Slavery is bad. but what else do they do that is truly evil and scary?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Splynncryth, well you don't show him to the characters as a whole being just parts of them, a limb shotting out of the dark and grabbing a slave right next to them and pulls the slave back to the darkness kicking and screaming, pleaing crying for help. Follow the sounds of flesh tearing and ripping and bones breaking and snapping, in dark, maybe blooding and tore clothes thrown back out at the players feet. As for disturbing, you have to go into details and get graphic with them, nothing freaks people out then that.

Stuff like this.

But also what kinds of horrible things do these guys do to take them to the next level. Slavery is bad. but what else do they do that is truly evil and scary?

All you do is going into the darkest heart of man to find some really scarier and disturbing stuff, but you have to watch out far you go and warn your players about how bad it might get or you might lose players, so my warning is watch how far you go.

[Killer Cyborg]

How do Vampires and Splugorth (of all kinds, but let's say Slavers in specific) need to be MORE horrific? They are horrifying in the extreme, if played that way, or alternatively can be comic book style villains, if that's more to your players tastes.

Vampires seem to not get much respect, but they are crazy to consider. Starting with the Wild vampire, a berserk, blood drinking monster that is only one step off from a rotting corpse. It actually radiates evil. Not just scariness, not just it's smell or appearance, not just to psychic sensitives or Dog boys, but radiates a palpable evil that is apparant to anyone. It wants to destroy you, and not just that, but eat you as well. It comes in the night, has incredibly powers of stealth/travel/disguise, and seems to only want to kill and destroy. It can hardly be reasoned with, and will destroy things just for fun. Come night time, there's nearly no defence against them, they can hunt an area for days, but can just as easily show up and wipe out an entire community in a single night completely without warning. They bite and scratch and claw, can get in almost anywhere, and oh yeah, for all those who are fearlessly toting vibro-blades and automatic, city ending future tech weapons, you basically cannot hurt them. You are limited to a few extremely odd pieces of gear to fight them with. Better hope you always have them on hand.

Playing up the swarming, pack of wild dog mentality of them makes them intense. I've been inside a house when wild dogs have tried to get in, they gnash at you, slam themselves into doors and make a helluva lot of noise, and even if they can't get in, they are so intense you have to wonder if there is someway they might. Besides, even if you are armed against them when they DO get in, the chances of you killing them all before they swarm you, let alone get to anyone else, are minimal. And dogs lack that last element, that human element that lets them do things humans can, which are be evil and yet relateable.

That's only Wild Vampires, but it shows why no one wants to venture into the Wild Vampire no-mans land that seperates most of the Americas from the Vampire Kingdom. I would argue that secondary vampires are even more horrific, just because there is more human left to them.

Consider the classic 'good' secondary Vampire for a second. There is no truly GOOD secondary Vampire. An unprincipled Vampire is one in whom the person (and they are people, Vampires, possessed, changed, mutated, but people still) can maintain an incredible amount of moral control, but all they really are is directed evil. They still prey on humans. They drink human blood. Perhaps, for now, they only drink from willing donors, but those donors will most likely eventually become slaves of the vampire. More likely, they drink from less desirable members of society, but for how long? It's only going to be a matter of time until they HAVE to drink from someone else, willingly or not. If they were truly 'good' they would wait for the sun to rise and not put anyone else in danger/harm anyone else, but they do not, because their drive to survive overwhelms them, which is why they are Unprincipled at absolute best. They have an unconquerable urge to survive, because inevitably, their lives are not their own, they are extensions of something ancient and unimaginable, and they can never escape that.


Consider what the enemies the characters are going against represent, and what they actually ARE, not just what kind of damage they do. The characters might be powerful, but if they care about people, they have a weakness, and a group of 'protectors' who survive the night/battle, but lose the people they were trying to protect (or half of them, even one of them), and that 'victory' seems hollow, defeat seems inevitable. Especially if the people/person lost comes back. Imagine a group trying to defend a wilderness village, who loses someone important to vampires, only for that person to come back as a 'Good' vampire. Maybe that vampire even helps them defeat the others, but then what? They can't go home, will the characters look after them from now on? Feed them? Will they eventually have to kill it? Because if they try, that 'good' vampire will fight back, or run. What happens to it if it is hurt/abandoned by it's link to humanity, where does it go? Maybe the next time that vampire is leading a pack against the wilderness town, with knowledge of the PC's, and it can be just as viscious/effective as the previous group of monsters, but with all the knowledge of the person it used to be.

Horror is everywhere in Rifts, it just needs to be emphasized.

Stuff like this is what I am talking about.

So... "state the obvious" kind of stuff...?



(It IS a good post, though. )

[Daeglan]

How do Vampires and Splugorth (of all kinds, but let's say Slavers in specific) need to be MORE horrific? They are horrifying in the extreme, if played that way, or alternatively can be comic book style villains, if that's more to your players tastes.

Vampires seem to not get much respect, but they are crazy to consider. Starting with the Wild vampire, a berserk, blood drinking monster that is only one step off from a rotting corpse. It actually radiates evil. Not just scariness, not just it's smell or appearance, not just to psychic sensitives or Dog boys, but radiates a palpable evil that is apparant to anyone. It wants to destroy you, and not just that, but eat you as well. It comes in the night, has incredibly powers of stealth/travel/disguise, and seems to only want to kill and destroy. It can hardly be reasoned with, and will destroy things just for fun. Come night time, there's nearly no defence against them, they can hunt an area for days, but can just as easily show up and wipe out an entire community in a single night completely without warning. They bite and scratch and claw, can get in almost anywhere, and oh yeah, for all those who are fearlessly toting vibro-blades and automatic, city ending future tech weapons, you basically cannot hurt them. You are limited to a few extremely odd pieces of gear to fight them with. Better hope you always have them on hand.

Playing up the swarming, pack of wild dog mentality of them makes them intense. I've been inside a house when wild dogs have tried to get in, they gnash at you, slam themselves into doors and make a helluva lot of noise, and even if they can't get in, they are so intense you have to wonder if there is someway they might. Besides, even if you are armed against them when they DO get in, the chances of you killing them all before they swarm you, let alone get to anyone else, are minimal. And dogs lack that last element, that human element that lets them do things humans can, which are be evil and yet relateable.

That's only Wild Vampires, but it shows why no one wants to venture into the Wild Vampire no-mans land that seperates most of the Americas from the Vampire Kingdom. I would argue that secondary vampires are even more horrific, just because there is more human left to them.

Consider the classic 'good' secondary Vampire for a second. There is no truly GOOD secondary Vampire. An unprincipled Vampire is one in whom the person (and they are people, Vampires, possessed, changed, mutated, but people still) can maintain an incredible amount of moral control, but all they really are is directed evil. They still prey on humans. They drink human blood. Perhaps, for now, they only drink from willing donors, but those donors will most likely eventually become slaves of the vampire. More likely, they drink from less desirable members of society, but for how long? It's only going to be a matter of time until they HAVE to drink from someone else, willingly or not. If they were truly 'good' they would wait for the sun to rise and not put anyone else in danger/harm anyone else, but they do not, because their drive to survive overwhelms them, which is why they are Unprincipled at absolute best. They have an unconquerable urge to survive, because inevitably, their lives are not their own, they are extensions of something ancient and unimaginable, and they can never escape that.


Consider what the enemies the characters are going against represent, and what they actually ARE, not just what kind of damage they do. The characters might be powerful, but if they care about people, they have a weakness, and a group of 'protectors' who survive the night/battle, but lose the people they were trying to protect (or half of them, even one of them), and that 'victory' seems hollow, defeat seems inevitable. Especially if the people/person lost comes back. Imagine a group trying to defend a wilderness village, who loses someone important to vampires, only for that person to come back as a 'Good' vampire. Maybe that vampire even helps them defeat the others, but then what? They can't go home, will the characters look after them from now on? Feed them? Will they eventually have to kill it? Because if they try, that 'good' vampire will fight back, or run. What happens to it if it is hurt/abandoned by it's link to humanity, where does it go? Maybe the next time that vampire is leading a pack against the wilderness town, with knowledge of the PC's, and it can be just as viscious/effective as the previous group of monsters, but with all the knowledge of the person it used to be.

Horror is everywhere in Rifts, it just needs to be emphasized.

Stuff like this is what I am talking about.

So... "state the obvious" kind of stuff...?



(It IS a good post, though. )

Not so much state the obvious as how to present the info in a way that is scary. In the books things are not presented in a scary manner. But I am also looking for stuff that is more evil.

[Eclipse]

Hmm I suppose if you're going to rule out grit and splatter..

Flesh out the details for what the dry descriptions/text really implies - the difference between killing an animal to eat vs eating tinned meat?

Build a more personal connection with the players and their characters - empathy is necessary. Not sure how to do this in the format of the game . Watching a horror movie isn't going to do it. You can't really get full sensory involvement, particularly texture and smell/taste are involved in a squick feeling. Obviously helplessness is really the core of horror. If you were in some kind of virtual reality 'matrix' that involved all your senses, it would probably be trivial to create a genuine sense of horror. Computer games like Amnesia the Dark Descent and Slender game (containing slender man) are freaky by surprising you (the unknown) and making you unable to harm the monster/s so all you can do is run.

Don't speed through descriptions or combat and maybe you'll have to expand the rules in a sense with 'miscellaneous' ones that can represent more realistic issues not covered by the rules as they currently exist. E.g. grappling monsters could be scary imo.

Too much of anything pretty much dulls the response to the stimulus - for a fan of palladium like myself, the sense of wonder and terror is pretty muted after reading the descriptions and fully understanding the combat system. You'll have to throw some curve balls generally speaking.

[Eclipse]

The splugorth and their minions are scary because you are helpless as a human in their nation and they eat people like we eat animals. Eating people is a tad scarier than enslaving them.

As for vampires.. they were always basically ******* with their vulnerability to common water. Changing that to holy water only makes them a tad more serious a threat.

[Noon]

Ask your players what HORROR is? Work with and keep asking as the play session.

Otherwise what are the players supposed to do - they aren't just a passive audience. Or atleast don't expect to be.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

remove all status quos.
Allow the CS to be destroyed, or to destroy everyone else.
Allow Splynncryth to be destroyed, or to destroy everyone else.
etcetera
If something exists, dont be afraid of burning it to the ground. Just because Merctown is here today doesn't mean it will exist tomorrow.
stop looking at characters as collections of numbers. look at them like real people.
Introduce scarcity into your game.

everything else is just window dressing.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Cat and mouse games are good, hit they hard and fast, take a body part or two.