Godling hand to hand skills

[Nightmask]

Who says the godling doesn't/can't have military training, or the equivalent? An offspring of Ares for example certainly has combat in the blood.

[Akashic Soldier]

Such characters are typically exceptions to the rule. So long as it "makes sense" that their parent could pass it along to them it pretty much flies.

[Nightmask]

Actually if you look under Godlings in pantheon of the megaverse, Godlings can't select Military skills......

Even Aries is hand to hand martial arts btw....

I do agree there are exceptions... but then from what i see in the character made by the player...he doesn't even have modern W.P. so kinda ironic that you know commando hth and you dun really know how to handle guns

Hmmm, makes no sense that godlings can't access military skills. Many gods have access to high-tech civilizations and have for thousands of years and no reason why a Godling couldn't have been exposed to such (quite ridiculous to insist that all Godlings are thousands of years old and that they ALL have no access to high-tech civilizations for a Godling to have learned from).

Nothing ironic about someone knowing HtH: Commando but not knowing how to handle a gun however, HtH is set up to train you how to battle opponents generally without weapons (outside a few MA that are specialized around weapons like Zanji Shinjinken-Ryu or Moo Gi Gong), there's no reason why someone would have to know how to handle guns while possessing HtH: Commando, anymore than one should have to know HtH: Commando to be able to use guns, they're independent skills.

[Witchcraft]

Do yourself a favor and grab dog-boxing -- or Monkey-style kung fu

[Nekira Sudacne]

Pantheons of the Megaverse was released before World Book 12 where Hand to Hand commando was first printed. of course neither the godlings nor any gods can make a reference to something that hadn't existed at the time of it's printing.

[Jedrious]

Kratos approves of HtH:Commando for Godlings

[MikelAmroni]

I personally grabbed HTH: Pancracean for my latest greek godling. It's out of Rifter 7 (the World Warriors article) and isn't even that broken, but has great flavor, especially for a greek godling.

You could choose Commando, but with a choice of Any, why wouldn't you branch out and try and find something that fits the flavor better. As long as you're not trying to use ninjitsu (and even then if your powers are pretty tame/low key), go to town (as much as your GM allows)!

[drewkitty ~..~]

The listing is that they can have any Hand To Hand Skill. Which limits the choices to The Hand To Hand Skills. This does not include any of the Martial Art Forms. Which are found in N&S, MC, and two of the early Rifters.

Yes, h2h's are different from MAF. Mostly in the Inflexibility of the MAF's around WP's. Also that there are none in RIFTS. *watches my Rifts China Books burn in effigy*

In conclusion, Yes, you the player can pick any h2h found in RUE.

[MikelAmroni]

The listing is that they can have any Hand To Hand Skill. Which limits the choices to The Hand To Hand Skills. This does not include any of the Martial Art Forms. Which are found in N&S, MC, and two of the early Rifters.

Yes, h2h's are different from MAF. Mostly in the Inflexibility of the MAF's around WP's. Also that there are none in RIFTS. *watches my Rifts China Books burn in effigy*

In conclusion, Yes, you the player can pick any h2h found in RUE.

And that would be why I'd never want you deciding what my Godling gets. Yes that is a correct RAW reading of the RCC. however the R.C.C. is a godling. Seriously, a divine being. If you're overly concerned with how unbalancing a basic martial art form is to the character, it doesn't belong in that game

But you are 100% correct on the reading of that bit (although to be fair, it was written with the original main book in mind, so really only the four HTH skills can be chosen; Commando is as much an advanced martial art skill as Karate, Kendo, or Aikido from the japan books - evidenced by how hard it is to learn).

[keir451]

I agree with Nekira.
Mainly Commando is a H2H limited to Human Special Forces Soldiers, so a a Godling would have to enlist in the military of a Nation that has Hand to Hand Commando and be trained in it, or be taught by a Special Forces Soldier. I wouldn't allow it any other way. If it's the CS (for example) there's no way a godling would get in IMO, next is the New Navy (Navy SEALS), followed by Triax (Special Forces agan). Not sure of China or Russia. A godling would have a hard time getting into the programs for these countries because of the level of investigation that goes, or would go into the personal history and background of a Special Forces applicant.

[Giant2005]

Hand to Hand combat isn't something invented by humanity. Your Godling doesn't have to have ever met a human to have learned whatever martial art form he is using - the Vintex were using H2H: Commando long before the cataclysm. He could have learned from one of them or any number of beings that have learned the equivalent to H2H: Commando without the influence of humanity.
Or more reasonably, one of their war-mongering parents or a minion of that deity could have taught them - any being that has been at war longer than the human race has existed is sure to know far more about warfare and combat than any human. If a human has done it, so has a War God.

[Tor]

Actually if you look under Godlings in pantheon of the megaverse, Godlings can't select Military skills......Even Aries is hand to hand martial arts btw....

He's a god, and I'm sure he probably also has Commando, can't expect to list ALL the gods skills.

The guy predates Commandos though, so naturally his MA skills will be higher.

Am surprised he's not skilled at Assassin though. Maybe it kills too quickly and spoils the fun?

[flatline]

HtH is set up to train you how to battle opponents generally without weapons (outside a few MA that are specialized around weapons like Zanji Shinjinken-Ryu or Moo Gi Gong)

This may be how it's set up in the game, but if you are talking about real life martial arts training, it's not true. The vast majority of real world martial arts include weapon training. Tai Chi, for example, has dozens of weapon forms for sword, saber, lance, spear, staff, and more exotic weapons. Even more recent "pacifist" arts like Aikido train with various length staffs (bo, jo, etc) and mock swords and knives.

--flatline

[keir451]

Hand to Hand combat isn't something invented by humanity. Your Godling doesn't have to have ever met a human to have learned whatever martial art form he is using - the Vintex were using H2H: Commando long before the cataclysm. He could have learned from one of them or any number of beings that have learned the equivalent to H2H: Commando without the influence of humanity.
Or more reasonably, one of their war-mongering parents or a minion of that deity could have taught them - any being that has been at war longer than the human race has existed is sure to know far more about warfare and combat than any human. If a human has done it, so has a War God.

Who or what are the Vintex? I'm not familiar with them. I referenced Commando as being a human developed combat skill because as far as I knew it was only used (and developed by) humans. It doesn't appear in Rifts until Coalition War Campaign and in that book it's a Coalition skill and as far as the Coalition (and other humans on Rifts Earth are concerned) Commando WAS invented by humans as they most likely have not yet encountered another race that uses that hand to hand skill.
Every race has their own "equivalent" to the general hand to hand skills, so you're correct that humans weren't the only ones in the multiverse to develop hand to hand skills, they merely developed their own styles.
I would not think Ares has Commando, the Greek Gods have no direct contact with Rifts Earth and Commando was created long after the Greek Gods left Earth. IMO he would have to learn it from soemone who already uses it, but his Martial Arts skill would be superior as he has thousands of years of combat experience.

[keir451]

Hand to Hand combat isn't something invented by humanity. Your Godling doesn't have to have ever met a human to have learned whatever martial art form he is using - the Vintex were using H2H: Commando long before the cataclysm. He could have learned from one of them or any number of beings that have learned the equivalent to H2H: Commando without the influence of humanity.
Or more reasonably, one of their war-mongering parents or a minion of that deity could have taught them - any being that has been at war longer than the human race has existed is sure to know far more about warfare and combat than any human. If a human has done it, so has a War God.

Who or what are the Vintex? I'm not familiar with them. I referenced Commando as being a human developed combat skill because as far as I knew it was only used (and developed by) humans. It doesn't appear in Rifts until Coalition War Campaign and in that book it's a Coalition skill and as far as the Coalition (and other humans on Rifts Earth are concerned) Commando WAS invented by humans as they most likely have not yet encountered another race that uses that hand to hand skill.
Every race has their own "equivalent" to the general hand to hand skills, so you're correct that humans weren't the only ones in the multiverse to develop hand to hand skills, they merely developed their own styles.
I would not think Ares has Commando, the Greek Gods have no direct contact with Rifts Earth and Commando was created long after the Greek Gods left Earth. IMO he would have to learn it from soemone who already uses it, but his Martial Arts skill would be superior as he has thousands of years of combat experience.

Vintex are mercenary D-Bees that existed before the coming of the rifts in the Three Galaxies (If I'm remembering my Canon correctly).

Ah, Ok. Thanks! So Yes they would have their own "version" of Commando, but HUMAN style Commando would have been created by humans.

[Giant2005]

Hand to Hand combat isn't something invented by humanity. Your Godling doesn't have to have ever met a human to have learned whatever martial art form he is using - the Vintex were using H2H: Commando long before the cataclysm. He could have learned from one of them or any number of beings that have learned the equivalent to H2H: Commando without the influence of humanity.
Or more reasonably, one of their war-mongering parents or a minion of that deity could have taught them - any being that has been at war longer than the human race has existed is sure to know far more about warfare and combat than any human. If a human has done it, so has a War God.

Who or what are the Vintex? I'm not familiar with them. I referenced Commando as being a human developed combat skill because as far as I knew it was only used (and developed by) humans. It doesn't appear in Rifts until Coalition War Campaign and in that book it's a Coalition skill and as far as the Coalition (and other humans on Rifts Earth are concerned) Commando WAS invented by humans as they most likely have not yet encountered another race that uses that hand to hand skill.
Every race has their own "equivalent" to the general hand to hand skills, so you're correct that humans weren't the only ones in the multiverse to develop hand to hand skills, they merely developed their own styles.
I would not think Ares has Commando, the Greek Gods have no direct contact with Rifts Earth and Commando was created long after the Greek Gods left Earth. IMO he would have to learn it from soemone who already uses it, but his Martial Arts skill would be superior as he has thousands of years of combat experience.

Vintex are mercenary D-Bees that existed before the coming of the rifts in the Three Galaxies (If I'm remembering my Canon correctly).

Ah, Ok. Thanks! So Yes they would have their own "version" of Commando, but HUMAN style Commando would have been created by humans.

But that is the point, other races out there may have their own style but statistically, it will be the same.
Nothing is really unique to humanity - everything we have developed has already existed in some form and used by the other races in the Megaverse.

No book as far as I know goes into any kind of detail as to who actually invented the combat style or when. CWC is just the first time we saw it in print. The skill itself existed during the Golden Age - Nema forces in Chaos Earth have the skill.

[keir451]

@Giant2005; Technically by the CS & Rifts Humanity's standards "we" (humans that is) did invent H2H Commando at the tiime it was "created" we knew of no other intelligent species so we "originated" it. The CS (and their propaganda machine) will claim that and at the same time claim that any aliens using Commando have "stolen it" or were taught by traitors.
In the end my personal standard is that a Godling would not have automatic access to H2H Commando unless he were using an OCC that already has it or was taught it by an instructor (subject to GM approval of course ).

[flatline]

@Giant2005; Technically by the CS & Rifts Humanity's standards "we" (humans that is) did invent H2H Commando at the tiime it was "created" we knew of no other intelligent species so we "originated" it. The CS (and their propaganda machine) will claim that and at the same time claim that any aliens using Commando have "stolen it" or were taught by traitors.
In the end my personal standard is that a Godling would not have automatic access to H2H Commando unless he were using an OCC that already has it or was taught it by an instructor (subject to GM approval of course ).

CB2 Godlings don't get to pick OCCs. You are probably thinking of Demi-gods.

--flatline

[keir451]

@Giant2005; Technically by the CS & Rifts Humanity's standards "we" (humans that is) did invent H2H Commando at the tiime it was "created" we knew of no other intelligent species so we "originated" it. The CS (and their propaganda machine) will claim that and at the same time claim that any aliens using Commando have "stolen it" or were taught by traitors.
In the end my personal standard is that a Godling would not have automatic access to H2H Commando unless he were using an OCC that already has it or was taught it by an instructor (subject to GM approval of course ).

CB2 Godlings don't get to pick OCCs. You are probably thinking of Demi-gods.

--flatline

D'oh! That's what I get for trying to think at this time of the morning w/out my coffee!

[Blue_Lion]

Pantheons of the Megaverse was released before World Book 12 where Hand to Hand commando was first printed. of course neither the godlings nor any gods can make a reference to something that hadn't existed at the time of it's printing.

UMMM no it was first published in world book 11 coalition wr campain but yes pantheons was before that.
At the time it was writen the only military skilsl where demolition and demoltions disposal not the type of skills most gods whould be intrested in.

[Nekira Sudacne]

World book 11...12...13, it was one of the three, I just didn't have the energy at that hour of the morning to look it up

[Blue_Lion]

World book 11...12...13, it was one of the three, I just didn't have the energy at that hour of the morning to look it up

World book 11 it started with the CS commando and SF. It might have been reprinted in 12 as I do not have warlords of russia. It is also in rifts gmg along with 4 martial arts from rifts japan.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I knew it started in Coalition War Campaign, I just couldn't remember what book number it was

[drewkitty ~..~]

The listing is that they can have any Hand To Hand Skill. Which limits the choices to The Hand To Hand Skills. This does not include any of the Martial Art Forms. Which are found in N&S, MC, and two of the early Rifters.

Yes, h2h's are different from MAF. Mostly in the Inflexibility of the MAF's around WP's. Also that there are none in RIFTS. *watches my Rifts China Books burn in effigy*

In conclusion, Yes, you the player can pick any h2h found in RUE.

And that would be why I'd never want you deciding what my Godling gets. Yes that is a correct RAW reading of the RCC. however the R.C.C. is a godling. Seriously, a divine being. If you're overly concerned with how unbalancing a basic martial art form is to the character, it doesn't belong in that game

But you are 100% correct on the reading of that bit (although to be fair, it was written with the original main book in mind, so really only the four HTH skills can be chosen; Commando is as much an advanced martial art skill as Karate, Kendo, or Aikido from the japan books - evidenced by how hard it is to learn).

Update: I should of said "In conclusion, Yes, you the player can pick any h2h found in any Rifts book." I remembered that there are some MA h2h's in the Rifts Japan book.

SideNote: the previous post was just looking at a Strictly Canon Reading of the Text.
I have no problem with players straying from strictly canon to include taking a MAF. So long as they do not abuse (Munchkinize the char) with the liberty.

[ShadowLogan]

I noticed that a Godling is able to choose any hand to hand skills

Is a godling allowed to take hand to hand: commando?
One of my players chose that for his character but i found it rather weird that a being without any military training would be able to pick up commando fighting techniques

I don't think it would be weird. (Note I don't have the book for Godling, so am limited in my response range).

Now there are HTH styles that are restricted (Dragon, there's one in CB1r for a PF race I can't recall atm), but commando doesn't have a restriction like that placed on it IINM. All HTH skills fall under the Physical category instead of military (even in Commando in WB11).

Something else to consider is Commando one of the "generic" HTH styles (Basic, Expert, Martial Arts, Assassin) or is it one of the "specific" HTH styles (Ninjitsu, Karate, Aikido, Judo, Jujitsu, Tengu, "Samarui", etc). As a generic HTH style, it doesn't require much explanation in how they got it, but a specific style would IMHO.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Again, i think people are being too specific with a setting and game system that are deliberately abstract in a lot of cases.

The HTH skills (at least the ones in the basic books), in particular, are generic; explain where you got them however makes sense. None of them reference a specific martial art (until we get into Japan and later books); the generic HtH skills are abstract on purpose.

HtH Commando could be described as US Green Beret training, Israeli Krav Maga, SAS Training (though they are starting to use KM), etc. It is any one of a number of advanced, military-oriented, "hard"/distilled martial arts.

Any culture sufficiently advanced to have a need for such skills would have developed some form of it.

Abstract system is abstract, news at ll =P

[Subjugator]

I tend to think that any humanoid being with a 50,000 year lifespan can probably learn HTH Commando.

/Sub

[say652]

could a godling study one of the physical training hand to hand styles from heroes unlimited??????

[Johnathan]

could a godling study one of the physical training hand to hand styles from heroes unlimited??????

In my humble opinion, I would entertain this option BUT only at the expense of TWO (2) of the godlings power selection options. Considering that some of boons to having that kind of physical training could, potentially, equal out to some of power options available to the godling.

Just my two cents though.

[kaid]

This is one of those GM calls given the time frame the RCC was created. Honestly if I was a GM and the character had a good back story I could see letting them have commando or some of the more basic non mystic martial arts from china. They would deffinately have to spend some of their extra skill pics on it probably 2 or 3 depending what they go for. Using one of their power options for it also makes sense. If you can get a spell caster spell powers for a skill pick it makes sense for a more martial oriented one to spend one of their power selections for improved hand to hand ability.

[Nightmask]

could a godling study one of the physical training hand to hand styles from heroes unlimited??????

In my humble opinion, I would entertain this option BUT only at the expense of TWO (2) of the godlings power selection options. Considering that some of boons to having that kind of physical training could, potentially, equal out to some of power options available to the godling.

Just my two cents though.

Not seeing how you arrive at something like a HtH skill being equal to not even just one but TWO Godling powers. Seriously, even the special HtH skills for the Physical Training character don't even remotely measure up to one let alone two godly powers.

[Nightmask]

This is one of those GM calls given the time frame the RCC was created. Honestly if I was a GM and the character had a good back story I could see letting them have commando or some of the more basic non mystic martial arts from china. They would deffinately have to spend some of their extra skill pics on it probably 2 or 3 depending what they go for. Using one of their power options for it also makes sense. If you can get a spell caster spell powers for a skill pick it makes sense for a more martial oriented one to spend one of their power selections for improved hand to hand ability.

Seems like some treat the Martial Arts from N&SS like they're super-powers rather than just training. Sure some have some specialties that provide what amount to minor powers (such as Sword Chi Technique letting a special, named sword share half your chi to let you harm supernatural beings) but given these are learned by humans readily enough a godling particularly one with a suitable background shouldn't be paying out so much more than a human.

[kaid]

This is one of those GM calls given the time frame the RCC was created. Honestly if I was a GM and the character had a good back story I could see letting them have commando or some of the more basic non mystic martial arts from china. They would deffinately have to spend some of their extra skill pics on it probably 2 or 3 depending what they go for. Using one of their power options for it also makes sense. If you can get a spell caster spell powers for a skill pick it makes sense for a more martial oriented one to spend one of their power selections for improved hand to hand ability.

Seems like some treat the Martial Arts from N&SS like they're super-powers rather than just training. Sure some have some specialties that provide what amount to minor powers (such as Sword Chi Technique letting a special, named sword share half your chi to let you harm supernatural beings) but given these are learned by humans readily enough a godling particularly one with a suitable background shouldn't be paying out so much more than a human.

That is why I would lean toward the 2 or three skills. That is a pretty common cost for enhanced martial arts abilities for most OCC/RCC. If they did the actual god power I would likely let them chose even one of the mystic martial arts things from the rifts china book. Some of those would be pretty comprable to the other godling powers they can chose from power wise.

[Nightmask]

This is one of those GM calls given the time frame the RCC was created. Honestly if I was a GM and the character had a good back story I could see letting them have commando or some of the more basic non mystic martial arts from china. They would deffinately have to spend some of their extra skill pics on it probably 2 or 3 depending what they go for. Using one of their power options for it also makes sense. If you can get a spell caster spell powers for a skill pick it makes sense for a more martial oriented one to spend one of their power selections for improved hand to hand ability.

Seems like some treat the Martial Arts from N&SS like they're super-powers rather than just training. Sure some have some specialties that provide what amount to minor powers (such as Sword Chi Technique letting a special, named sword share half your chi to let you harm supernatural beings) but given these are learned by humans readily enough a godling particularly one with a suitable background shouldn't be paying out so much more than a human.

That is why I would lean toward the 2 or three skills. That is a pretty common cost for enhanced martial arts abilities for most OCC/RCC. If they did the actual god power I would likely let them chose even one of the mystic martial arts things from the rifts china book. Some of those would be pretty comprable to the other godling powers they can chose from power wise.

I'd go with the skill cost as well, although I'd think if you picked Wu Shih as a magical class you'd also get or should get the required Martial Art at the same time.

[eliakon]

If I was going to allow N&SS martial arts or full rifts china martial arts I would use the rules fromt he back of N&SS for skill trading, or make it a power selection. The rules in the back already cover the 'costs to gain a skill' and I see the listed powers as examples not a be all and end all list. just my 2cents worth though

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is one of those GM calls given the time frame the RCC was created. Honestly if I was a GM and the character had a good back story I could see letting them have commando or some of the more basic non mystic martial arts from china. They would deffinately have to spend some of their extra skill pics on it probably 2 or 3 depending what they go for. Using one of their power options for it also makes sense. If you can get a spell caster spell powers for a skill pick it makes sense for a more martial oriented one to spend one of their power selections for improved hand to hand ability.

Seems like some treat the Martial Arts from N&SS like they're super-powers rather than just training. Sure some have some specialties that provide what amount to minor powers (such as Sword Chi Technique letting a special, named sword share half your chi to let you harm supernatural beings) but given these are learned by humans readily enough a godling particularly one with a suitable background shouldn't be paying out so much more than a human.

Body chi lets you buff most attributes at a 1 chi to 5 increase ratio, with no cap limit. this is already insane by mortal standards, but for a godling with supernatural attributes this becomes rediculous.

"I pump in 50 chi so now my SN PS is 285 and deal thousands of megadamage a punch"

[Nightmask]

This is one of those GM calls given the time frame the RCC was created. Honestly if I was a GM and the character had a good back story I could see letting them have commando or some of the more basic non mystic martial arts from china. They would deffinately have to spend some of their extra skill pics on it probably 2 or 3 depending what they go for. Using one of their power options for it also makes sense. If you can get a spell caster spell powers for a skill pick it makes sense for a more martial oriented one to spend one of their power selections for improved hand to hand ability.

Seems like some treat the Martial Arts from N&SS like they're super-powers rather than just training. Sure some have some specialties that provide what amount to minor powers (such as Sword Chi Technique letting a special, named sword share half your chi to let you harm supernatural beings) but given these are learned by humans readily enough a godling particularly one with a suitable background shouldn't be paying out so much more than a human.

Body chi lets you buff most attributes at a 1 chi to 5 increase ratio, with no cap limit. this is already insane by mortal standards, but for a godling with supernatural attributes this becomes rediculous.

"I pump in 50 chi so now my SN PS is 285 and deal thousands of megadamage a punch"

Having unlimited MD capacity by SN PS stat must be in the newer Rifts core book since last I looked the MD one can do is capped so 70 or 700 will do the same damage. There is also no reason a GM has to allow that kind of unlimited boosting, just because the book doesn't list a cap doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't impose one if the lack of one leads to absurdities (like the PS 3 weakling pumping himself up to PS 100 and tearing safe doors off or just casually ripping out entire wall or floor safes and carting them off).

[Nekira Sudacne]

Agreed, common sense would indicate some caps be put in place, however i've played in several games where the power was not capped, with accordingly ludicrous results. Just because it seems obvious a GM should put a limit in place dosn't mean they will.

[Nightmask]

Agreed, common sense would indicate some caps be put in place, however i've played in several games where the power was not capped, with accordingly ludicrous results. Just because it seems obvious a GM should put a limit in place dosn't mean they will.

Sadly true, some are far too 'by the letter of the book' and behave as if it's a bible wherein all things are covered and nothing has been omitted or left up to the GM to adjust or reject.

[Johnathan]

could a godling study one of the physical training hand to hand styles from heroes unlimited??????

In my humble opinion, I would entertain this option BUT only at the expense of TWO (2) of the godlings power selection options. Considering that some of boons to having that kind of physical training could, potentially, equal out to some of power options available to the godling.

Just my two cents though.

Not seeing how you arrive at something like a HtH skill being equal to not even just one but TWO Godling powers. Seriously, even the special HtH skills for the Physical Training character don't even remotely measure up to one let alone two godly powers.

My reasoning is as follows:
The Physical Training Power Category is just that - A Power Category. It gives enough boost, bonuses and boons to allow those who take it to go toe-to-toe with super humans, without any real super powers, outside their training and bodies.

Also, it provides the equivalent of some powers: increased strength, stamina, agility, endurance, etc. Some of the bonuses provided by this power category are just as good, if not better, than the Godling stat bonus powers.

THAT is why I think it should cost two power selections.

[Nightmask]

could a godling study one of the physical training hand to hand styles from heroes unlimited??????

In my humble opinion, I would entertain this option BUT only at the expense of TWO (2) of the godlings power selection options. Considering that some of boons to having that kind of physical training could, potentially, equal out to some of power options available to the godling.

Just my two cents though.

Not seeing how you arrive at something like a HtH skill being equal to not even just one but TWO Godling powers. Seriously, even the special HtH skills for the Physical Training character don't even remotely measure up to one let alone two godly powers.

My reasoning is as follows:
The Physical Training Power Category is just that - A Power Category. It gives enough boost, bonuses and boons to allow those who take it to go toe-to-toe with super humans, without any real super powers, outside their training and bodies.

Also, it provides the equivalent of some powers: increased strength, stamina, agility, endurance, etc. Some of the bonuses provided by this power category are just as good, if not better, than the Godling stat bonus powers.

THAT is why I think it should cost two power selections.

Ahhhh, so you're confusing the HtH SKILL for the Physical Training CATEGORY with selecting the actual Physical Training category. It is not 'select the Physical Training Power category' but 'select the Physical Training HtH skill'. The skill provides nothing of what you're stating, no increased strength, stamina, or anything else it only provides bonuses comparable to a range of HtH Martial Arts from Palladium.

As a side-note you could have a Physical Training power category Demi-God going by the original race in Pantheons of the Megaverse (although ironically NOT in the version introduced in the Immortals power category in Powers Unlimited 2).

[Eclipse]

Up to your GM. And obviously the chi powers from N&SS were never meant to be combined with the other palladium game systems which is why they're so unbalanced.

[Johnathan]

could a godling study one of the physical training hand to hand styles from heroes unlimited??????

In my humble opinion, I would entertain this option BUT only at the expense of TWO (2) of the godlings power selection options. Considering that some of boons to having that kind of physical training could, potentially, equal out to some of power options available to the godling.

Just my two cents though.

Not seeing how you arrive at something like a HtH skill being equal to not even just one but TWO Godling powers. Seriously, even the special HtH skills for the Physical Training character don't even remotely measure up to one let alone two godly powers.

My reasoning is as follows:
The Physical Training Power Category is just that - A Power Category. It gives enough boost, bonuses and boons to allow those who take it to go toe-to-toe with super humans, without any real super powers, outside their training and bodies.

Also, it provides the equivalent of some powers: increased strength, stamina, agility, endurance, etc. Some of the bonuses provided by this power category are just as good, if not better, than the Godling stat bonus powers.

THAT is why I think it should cost two power selections.

Ahhhh, so you're confusing the HtH SKILL for the Physical Training CATEGORY with selecting the actual Physical Training category. It is not 'select the Physical Training Power category' but 'select the Physical Training HtH skill'. The skill provides nothing of what you're stating, no increased strength, stamina, or anything else it only provides bonuses comparable to a range of HtH Martial Arts from Palladium.

As a side-note you could have a Physical Training power category Demi-God going by the original race in Pantheons of the Megaverse (although ironically NOT in the version introduced in the Immortals power category in Powers Unlimited 2).

My mistake then. That would be exactly what I was suggesting.

[kaid]

One thing to also maybe add is one reason for a godling to maybe not have things like HTH commando is would any godling bother training that hard. They are innately faster/stronger/tougher than any mortal do they ever feel the need to bother training something to that high level when even HTH expert plus their innate godliness makes them almost unstoppable to mortals.

I am thinking more like the hercules type fighting why bother with finesse when RAAAAWWW smash works so well.

[Jay05]

One thing to also maybe add is one reason for a godling to maybe not have things like HTH commando is would any godling bother training that hard. They are innately faster/stronger/tougher than any mortal do they ever feel the need to bother training something to that high level when even HTH expert plus their innate godliness makes them almost unstoppable to mortals.

I am thinking more like the hercules type fighting why bother with finesse when RAAAAWWW smash works so well.

Herakles actually has HTH martial arts in Rifts stats, and as the "founder" of Pankration, aka the original MMA, I think he's use a bit more thought process than your above example.

[Nightmask]

One thing to also maybe add is one reason for a godling to maybe not have things like HTH commando is would any godling bother training that hard. They are innately faster/stronger/tougher than any mortal do they ever feel the need to bother training something to that high level when even HTH expert plus their innate godliness makes them almost unstoppable to mortals.

I am thinking more like the hercules type fighting why bother with finesse when RAAAAWWW smash works so well.

They'd bother with it for any of the reasons any others go about doing so. It may be a passion of theirs or obsession (like Hecate's to learn all the various magics that exist), or because while the godling may be superior to many mortals there are many mortals that match or exceed them and of course there are plenty of supernatural beings and gods that leave them looking quite weak in comparison.

[Athos]

I think under the godling RCC it says "Any of Choice" as an option.

This seems pretty clear to me.

For someone that lives 40,000 years or whatever, there is plenty of time for him to have traveled and learned a lot of different things.

I would say, go with the book as written and let them take any they choose. I mean hell, you are letting them play a GODLING after all, why quibble at this point.

[green.nova343]

could a godling study one of the physical training hand to hand styles from heroes unlimited??????

I'm going with a "no" on that one, mainly because those are exclusive to the Physical Training category. They're not even available to other human hero categories, & don't show up on any list of available skills for any Palladium setting. Now, if you want, you could have a demigod pick it...but only if they picked "Hero: Physical Training" for their O.C.C. (specifically lists that they can pick HU power categories, & Physical Training is not on the excluded list).

Now regarding the godling learning one of the martial arts forms from N&SS (or even from WB8 or WB25), since it's a physical skill, & the Godling R.C.C. description says they can pick "any" skill from that category, then they can pick it. Just like they can now pick Physical Labor, Outdoorsmanship, or Kick Boxing...Physical skills that weren't around when CB2 was printed, but are listed in RUE. And since we not only have specific rules for N&SS martial arts forms to be available in the Rifts, HU and PFRPG settings (pp. 163-166 in N&SS), but also Rifts-converted martial arts in WB8 & WB25 (more or less equivalent to the N&SS versions, although I'm not so happy with some of them) and an optional rule from Rifter #3 for adapting them, I see no problem with a godling learning a martial art form. Remember, though, you have to have a good explanation for it. Since they have very long lifespans (50,000+ years), even a fairly newbie godling of 200 years of age (a mere babe, as it were) is way too old to have learned something like Jeet Kun Do (created by Bruce Lee less than 50 years ago). Godlings whose lifespan is currently measured in millenia could effectively predate even older forms like Shao-Lin Kung Fu, & wouldn't be able to have picked it at 1st level. OTOH, a godling raised on Rifts Earth, even if he's a couple of centuries old, would have access to just about any Terran martial arts forms, including newer ones like Krav Magha. The other thing is, I would make a godling pay the extra skills to get a martial art form (4 related skills, if I remember Rifter #3 correctly), because a) they usually get a couple of free skills to go with it, and b) they get the benefit of martial arts abilities in addition to their godling abilities (which they can also trade in for additional skills).

As for HTH: Commando, Nekira is correct: unless the godling was officially enlisted into a military organization, they won't have an opportunity to learn HTH: Commando, because it's exclusively learned through military training. And note that even then, it's going to be limited: in RUE, the only Coalition O.C.C. that has access to it is the Military Specialist; Dog Boys, Grunts, Tech Officers, & even RPA Elites don't even bother applying for permission for it, despite coming from military backgrounds. Now, if you want to have your godling sign up for service with the United Worlds of Warlock, or some other 3G superpower, then maybe I could see justification; but even then, as a GM I would impose limits (i.e. a godling associated with farming, love, education, or some other non-military focus would not be interested in HTH: Commando). Look at the Greek Pantheon in CB2, for example: most of them have HTH: Basic, with even Big Papa Zeus only having HTH: Expert. Only a handful (Apollo, Artemis, Athena, Ares & Herakles) have HTH: Martial Artist, mainly because their focus is towards combat. Godlings that follow those 5 would have the best chance for HTH: Commando, but not someone who, say, follows Hephaestus or Hera (both HTH: Basic).

[Eclipse]

One thing to also maybe add is one reason for a godling to maybe not have things like HTH commando is would any godling bother training that hard. They are innately faster/stronger/tougher than any mortal do they ever feel the need to bother training something to that high level when even HTH expert plus their innate godliness makes them almost unstoppable to mortals.

I am thinking more like the hercules type fighting why bother with finesse when RAAAAWWW smash works so well.

Because they're usually fighting other gods and need an edge? Or massive wars between pantheons or pantheons and AIs or demons etc etc..

Although it wouldn't be a massive edge, and non-standard body plans might mess things up..

I think it'd more come down to not being shown up by martial art skilled lesser supernatural entities - they've got reps to maintain.

[say652]

i didnt say the physical training power set, just the fighting style.