This looks like a job for...RIFTS MAN

[DevastationBob]

IIRC the Rifts Coreworld was not a Heroes Unlimited type world with superheroes and what not. But we can get superhumans from Rifts or people getting powers from energy/radiation/formic vapors/etc. coming through a Rift. Have you had this happen in your game? I had a vagabond with Invulnerability and some extraordinary attributes become the "prophesied one" in a game before. He took out a robo-rhino-buffalo almost singlehanded and became the defender of a small isolated mountain community. Most people would just figure brightly costumed people exhibiting amazing powers were just magic users.

[Icefalcon]

I don't allow super powers in my Rifts game. I am not a big fan of mixing the post-apocalyptic setting with the superhero genre. If I do play with superheros, I do so in a separate game (and not one of Palladium's) where most opponents are super powered.

[Nightmask]

I don't allow super powers in my Rifts game. I am not a big fan of mixing the post-apocalyptic setting with the superhero genre. If I do play with superheros, I do so in a separate game (and not one of Palladium's) where most opponents are super powered.

Of course you allow super-powers in your game, you've likely got super-powered characters all over the place particularly if you're including things like dragons or demons. What is a dragon after all if not a super-powered being with super-powers like Supernatural PS, armored skin, Regeneration, and Winged Flight? You've got super-powers all over the place.

[Jay05]

IIRC the Rifts Coreworld was not a Heroes Unlimited type world with superheroes and what not. But we can get superhumans from Rifts or people getting powers from energy/radiation/formic vapors/etc. coming through a Rift. Have you had this happen in your game? I had a vagabond with Invulnerability and some extraordinary attributes become the "prophesied one" in a game before. He took out a robo-rhino-buffalo almost singlehanded and became the defender of a small isolated mountain community. Most people would just figure brightly costumed people exhibiting amazing powers were just magic users.

I'm currently running a mutant Rogue Scholar with: Sonic Speed, Power Channeling, and Ex PE. I'm having a blast with him. And honestly, I agree to a certain extent about the whole super hero type not fitting Rifts. But that doesn't mean that mutant powers don't. I honestly feel that in a world destroyed by the types of energies released with the coming of Rifts that the idea that super powered mutants wouldn't be nearly as common as psi powered mutants is a little silly. The same genetic changes that produce one could easily produce the other.

[Icefalcon]

I don't allow super powers in my Rifts game. I am not a big fan of mixing the post-apocalyptic setting with the superhero genre. If I do play with superheros, I do so in a separate game (and not one of Palladium's) where most opponents are super powered.

Of course you allow super-powers in your game, you've likely got super-powered characters all over the place particularly if you're including things like dragons or demons. What is a dragon after all if not a super-powered being with super-powers like Supernatural PS, armored skin, Regeneration, and Winged Flight? You've got super-powers all over the place.

If you want to call those super-power (as in superhero and super-villian) then go right ahead. I do not consider them such. Supernatural stats (magical), armored skin (evolution and seen in nature making it natural), Regeneration (magic or psychic) and winged flight (natural again) do not make someone or something super-powered. At least not in my opinion. What I consider super powers include flight without wings, x-ray vision, shooting webs from your wrists, adamantium claws, teleporting (without spells) and other such powers that can be used constantly with no limit.

As for dragons and demons, as well as other things of that nature, are not used much in my games. Not even by me as the GM. I try to limit the amount of supernatural anything running around and more concentrate on the grittiness of humans and other non-supernatural D-bees and the struggle between them.

[Nightmask]

I don't allow super powers in my Rifts game. I am not a big fan of mixing the post-apocalyptic setting with the superhero genre. If I do play with superheros, I do so in a separate game (and not one of Palladium's) where most opponents are super powered.

Of course you allow super-powers in your game, you've likely got super-powered characters all over the place particularly if you're including things like dragons or demons. What is a dragon after all if not a super-powered being with super-powers like Supernatural PS, armored skin, Regeneration, and Winged Flight? You've got super-powers all over the place.

If you want to call those super-power (as in superhero and super-villian) then go right ahead. I do not consider them such. Supernatural stats (magical), armored skin (evolution and seen in nature making it natural), Regeneration (magic or psychic) and winged flight (natural again) do not make someone or something super-powered. At least not in my opinion. What I consider super powers include flight without wings, x-ray vision, shooting webs from your wrists, adamantium claws, teleporting (without spells) and other such powers that can be used constantly with no limit.

As for dragons and demons, as well as other things of that nature, are not used much in my games. Not even by me as the GM. I try to limit the amount of supernatural anything running around and more concentrate on the grittiness of humans and other non-supernatural D-bees and the struggle between them.

I see, you've erroneously concluded super-powers=super-heroes/villains which simply isn't the case. You've also some odd definitions of what constitute super-powers as well (implants to provide you with unbreakable bones or claws for example), or thinking that winged flight isn't a super-power (no actual character like a dragon could fly without an actual power helping it fly as the wings could never actually provide lift enough for its mass). When you can cut someone's arm off and it regrows you're super-powered, when your skin can deflect bullets you're super-powered, when you can bench press tanks you're super-powered, etc.

[Mack]

As an aside, one of the best pseudo "superhuman" characters to toy around with is the Spirit Warrior OCC found in Spirit West. It's got a some nifty power combiniations.

[Jay05]

As an aside, one of the best pseudo "superhuman" characters to toy around with is the Spirit Warrior OCC found in Spirit West. It's got a some nifty power combiniations.

Truth!

[DevastationBob]

We had one with us on a Xiticix Exterminators game, I think his totem was the hummingbird, it was ridiculous the damage he could dish out.

[VooDu]

I have a rogue scholar too w/ sonic speed . Also a few other powers (adhesion, slo mo). I never understood why people are so afraid of having powers in the game. As stated before you got dragons and demons running around and mages with great power. Even in the conversion book it says that there are supes in France and if you look in other books you have NPCs with powers.

[Nightmask]

I have a rogue scholar too w/ sonic speed . Also a few other powers (adhesion, slo mo). I never understood why people are so afraid of having powers in the game. As stated before you got dragons and demons running around and mages with great power. Even in the conversion book it says that there are supes in France and if you look in other books you have NPCs with powers.

They seem to think super-powers means super-heroes/villains, as well as having a misperception that somehow super-powers are somehow inherently over-powering no matter what the powers are and how comparable or even inferior a particular super-power might be to a commonly seen superbeing like a dragon with that same power. You might have a super that's comparable to a juicer, yet because it's a super you'll hear 'he's too powerful!' just because he's a super yet not significantly better than the juicer.

[nilgravity]

I'm currently running a superhero play by post game in rifts. Most of the (remaining) group are just Secret Operatives so it hasn't had a big impact yet though the Detective just found the Right Eye of Osiris and now, basically, has super powers.

[Blue_Lion]

Well in one campain we ran in to Captian Colation and his side kick Dead Boy. Captian Colations Iron fist of the CS was brutal.

[Eclipse]

I don't like mixing heroes unlimited with rifts though I can see it being done fine. I like to have supers only in hu2 and no supers in rifts, though your mileage may vary. Its like mixing two flavors I'm used to having separately - e.g. I don't usually like rice pudding, though I like rice meals just fine and desserts just fine separately.

[say652]

love supers in rifts, but each person creates a character they want to play. some like rpa others psinics some even swear by magic. i like to play supers. even more so in rifts where everything is outrageously overpowered dragon hatchlings start out with around 400mdc on average a heavy borg its armor alone is 420mdc average flying pa 250mdc.a railgun deals d6x10mdc at a range of 5000ft. with that kinda being the "norm" in rifts why should players be limited in their choices of their version of a cool concept. i feel they shouldnt as far as game balance well maybe this isnt the game for you if you want a level playing field. skills are power sure the borg can take a volley of mini missiles but it cant psionically heal someone or hack a computer, draons are well dragons naturally powerful with limited skills. we with a small army of npcs fought a splugorth it killed over sixty pa suits 20 heavy full conversion borgs both mages and didnt even lose half its mdc.with stuff like that running around why limit the players.

[The Baron of chaos]

IIRC the Rifts Coreworld was not a Heroes Unlimited type world with superheroes and what not. But we can get superhumans from Rifts or people getting powers from energy/radiation/formic vapors/etc. coming through a Rift. Have you had this happen in your game? I had a vagabond with Invulnerability and some extraordinary attributes become the "prophesied one" in a game before. He took out a robo-rhino-buffalo almost singlehanded and became the defender of a small isolated mountain community. Most people would just figure brightly costumed people exhibiting amazing powers were just magic users.

Well yes it could work. As I see it, rifts Earth is a world where the various "genies" of a superhero world(supertech, magic, genetic engineering, nanotech, and so on) are gone out of the bottle, with various results. If you see from a perspective, prety muhc everyone has access to Iron Man level of technology, There are sacks of various different mutations(mostly psionic or magic based because the main enviromental stressor is...well magic...is Rifts Earth after all). but this do not means other type of mutation/superpowers can't exist as well, albeit one mus tbe cautious with the power level (that always sound a tad hypocrit in a world were you can play a walking tank(glitter boy), overpowered spellcastes, machine proff ninja jedi, gddamned DRAGONS, and nazi human supremacist batman and PUNK ROCK captain america/Bane...).

[Athos]

The worst munchkin characters I have seen in Rifts ALL THREE were HU2 based PCs. Now when someone says they want to play a HU2 character in Rifts, it is an automatic red flag. Your experience may be different, you may think it is mean to not allow it, in your games, you are welcome to allow them if you actually do GM, but in my games, no thanks.

Munchkins need not apply...

[Nightmask]

The worst munchkin characters I have seen in Rifts ALL THREE were HU2 based PCs. Now when someone says they want to play a HU2 character in Rifts, it is an automatic red flag. Your experience may be different, you may think it is mean to not allow it, in your games, you are welcome to allow them if you actually do GM, but in my games, no thanks.

Munchkins need not apply...

Don't go painting everyone a munchkin because they want a super just because you had a few characters you felt were overpowered be created using the Heroes Unlimited setting for super-heroes. Nobody wants to be insulted like that because someone else was a problem. Munchkin is a behavior and they'll abuse playing a Rogue Scholar or Mystic just as much as they will a super-human from HU, they're optimized around abusing whatever they have at hand.

[say652]

munchkin??? i retort glitterboy.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

You guys realize some of rifts regular occ are super heroes type

Juicers, cyber knights, power armor pilots, Borgs, any thing above a vagabond can be classified as a super hero type!

[GenThunderfist]

You guys realize some of rifts regular occ are super heroes type

Juicers, cyber knights, power armor pilots, Borgs, any thing above a vagabond can be classified as a super hero type!

Time-out there, "above a vagabond"?
I think we are forgetting about the all powerful SUPER vagabond.

[say652]

in this setting there is no such thing as overpowered. sure some characters can destroy mdc body armor with a few punches some can even dodge bullets and lasers others can shapeshift and breath fire. after playing the game for a long time i learned yeah a combat monster is cool but its skills that are the most game unbalancing. i feel the cyber-doc occ is overpowered because of their ability to CREATE bionic henchmen,still if someone wanted to play one i would let them.

[GenThunderfist]

in this setting there is no such thing as overpowered. sure some characters can destroy mdc body armor with a few punches some can even dodge bullets and lasers others can shapeshift and breath fire. after playing the game for a long time i learned yeah a combat monster is cool but its skills that are the most game unbalancing. i feel the cyber-doc occ is overpowered because of their ability to CREATE bionic henchmen,still if someone wanted to play one i would let them.

Wait...what? Supposing a Cyber-Doc happened to find infinite resources to create a small base of bionic henchmen, and enough people willing to work for him, an unskilled combat-based Juggernaut could still decimate him.

[Jay05]

I do not see why people ***** so much about book legal character classes. Especially those written by KS himself. I mean if the designer of the game you're playing obviously doesn't think a class is too powerful to play in Rifts or for a GM to handle, why should anyone else? And to clarify; I'm not referring to min/max bs or outlandish combinations of RCC and OCC that skirt the realms of sanity. I'm referring to classes as written in Canon PB books. And to those who start yelling "but it's not RIFTS", no it's the Palladium Megaverse! The games were designed to crossover. I don't know why people seem to forget or ignore this simple fact. And yes KS provides GM out in every core book where he says something to the effect of if you don't like it don't use it. Ok, fine. It's an out, if one is needed, perhaps a hypothetical gm should take a look at those he/she games with or their own skill level.

[say652]

I do not see why people ***** so much about book legal character classes. Especially those written by KS himself. I mean if the designer of the game you're playing obviously doesn't think a class is too powerful to play in Rifts or for a GM to handle, why should anyone else? And to clarify; I'm not referring to min/max bs or outlandish combinations of RCC and OCC that skirt the realms of sanity. I'm referring to classes as written in Canon PB books. And to those who start yelling "but it's not RIFTS", no it's the Palladium Megaverse! The games were designed to crossover. I don't know why people seem to forget or ignore this simple fact.

My hero. i shall name my next illigetimate child Jay05 in honor of your superior intellect. a gamesystem based on crossovers and all i hear is you cant do that. well since its not a conversion its not a homebrew occ i ask why since that is what the whole rpg system is based around that exact concept.

[say652]

in this setting there is no such thing as overpowered. sure some characters can destroy mdc body armor with a few punches some can even dodge bullets and lasers others can shapeshift and breath fire. after playing the game for a long time i learned yeah a combat monster is cool but its skills that are the most game unbalancing. i feel the cyber-doc occ is overpowered because of their ability to CREATE bionic henchmen,still if someone wanted to play one i would let them.

Wait...what? Supposing a Cyber-Doc happened to find infinite resources to create a small base of bionic henchmen, and enough people willing to work for him, an unskilled combat-based Juggernaut could still decimate him.

so could a juicer with a vibroblade.....o wait thats a combat based juggernaut.

[say652]

in this setting there is no such thing as overpowered. sure some characters can destroy mdc body armor with a few punches some can even dodge bullets and lasers others can shapeshift and breath fire. after playing the game for a long time i learned yeah a combat monster is cool but its skills that are the most game unbalancing. i feel the cyber-doc occ is overpowered because of their ability to CREATE bionic henchmen,still if someone wanted to play one i would let them.

I find many issues with this:
1) Henchmen? How did you manage to find so many willing participants?
2) How are you getting the endless resources required to create so many henchman?
3) How is having a bionic companion any different from having some other NPC companion
4) How does having a henchman prevent you from getting shot in the face?
5) Are you really playing the game if you spend 24+ hrs performing surgery and then waiting the 2 or 3 month rehabilitation period just to send out some meat shield?
6) Why not just hire a mercenary?

1)any starving lowlife would do. 2)blackmarkert, cybertheft,joined coalition,splugorth,adventuring 3)heavy borg armor 420MDC 4)how does having super powers prevent you from getting shot in the face 5)"hi i am doc borgs tear his arms off." quite effectivally actually 6) i cant put a small failsafe bomb in a mercenaries head to ensure loyalty

[say652]

Seems to me that Rifts is already a "super-powered" game. No, not the spandex wearing "here I come to save the day" types, but pretty close. A juicer has Extraordinary physical strength and endurance, many of the Rifts psionic and magic classes are more powerful than their HU counterparts. In a world where Demi-Gods and Godlings walk side by side with dragons and alien intelligences, I don't see how a super-powered character is going to throw off game balance. Game balance in Rifts is kind of a joke.

I'm not joking, I literally can kill a glitter-boy with only a single super power.

ok this i gotta hear. how can one power kill a glitterboy? i can think of no superpower that comes close to dealing as much damage as its boomgun.

[Jay05]

I do not see why people ***** so much about book legal character classes. Especially those written by KS himself. I mean if the designer of the game you're playing obviously doesn't think a class is too powerful to play in Rifts or for a GM to handle, why should anyone else? And to clarify; I'm not referring to min/max bs or outlandish combinations of RCC and OCC that skirt the realms of sanity. I'm referring to classes as written in Canon PB books. And to those who start yelling "but it's not RIFTS", no it's the Palladium Megaverse! The games were designed to crossover. I don't know why people seem to forget or ignore this simple fact.

My hero. i shall name my next illigetimate child Jay05 in honor of your superior intellect. a gamesystem based on crossovers and all i hear is you cant do that. well since its not a conversion its not a homebrew occ i ask why since that is what the whole rpg system is based around that exact concept.

You can do conversions of PB game to PB game all day. the Conversion book was built for it. People who ignore that are... I don't know.

[Jay05]

I do not see why people ***** so much about book legal character classes. Especially those written by KS himself. I mean if the designer of the game you're playing obviously doesn't think a class is too powerful to play in Rifts or for a GM to handle, why should anyone else? And to clarify; I'm not referring to min/max bs or outlandish combinations of RCC and OCC that skirt the realms of sanity. I'm referring to classes as written in Canon PB books. And to those who start yelling "but it's not RIFTS", no it's the Palladium Megaverse! The games were designed to crossover. I don't know why people seem to forget or ignore this simple fact.

KS says that his classes are not balanced with each other. And on that note even without min/maxing I can kill a glitterboy in one attack with only one major superpower. So while the games where designed to crossover, in many places there are some serious details that where overlooked that allow for easy exploits (like Akashic Soldiers infamous burster-scarecrow combo or a hundred other things).

No they're not and they don't have to be, as I said in my post that you quoted but seemed to only halfassed read, I was not referring to outlandish RCC/OCC combinations. Your above example is obviously of that type.

[Jay05]

I do not see why people ***** so much about book legal character classes. Especially those written by KS himself. I mean if the designer of the game you're playing obviously doesn't think a class is too powerful to play in Rifts or for a GM to handle, why should anyone else? And to clarify; I'm not referring to min/max bs or outlandish combinations of RCC and OCC that skirt the realms of sanity. I'm referring to classes as written in Canon PB books. And to those who start yelling "but it's not RIFTS", no it's the Palladium Megaverse! The games were designed to crossover. I don't know why people seem to forget or ignore this simple fact.

KS says that his classes are not balanced with each other. And on that note even without min/maxing I can kill a glitterboy in one attack with only one major superpower. So while the games where designed to crossover, in many places there are some serious details that where overlooked that allow for easy exploits (like Akashic Soldiers infamous burster-scarecrow combo or a hundred other things).

No they're not and they don't have to be, as I said in my post that you quoted but seemed to only halfassed read, I was not referring to outlandish RCC/OCC combinations. Your above example is obviously of that type.

Well fine then, see example "single super power kills glitter-boy".

limiting individual super powers is not the same as nixing supers across the board. The latter is overly controlling and creatively stifling. Honestly I'd forgotten about that power. That's one I'd nix even in my HU games, because... wow. However, as I've said before, if a GM's players are the type to constantly create characters with the intent of disrupting the flow of the game, I'd talk to the player in question. That to me is the definition of munchkin. And that has not a damn thing to do with the powers involved.

[GenThunderfist]

Lot's of things can kill a glitter-boy, they're not invulnerable.

Kind of. KS has a "thing" for the glitterboy. It is like the ONLY OCC that has 7 pages before it moves on plus a redux that makes it just better by being from FQ. It has some of the highest damage rating possible on Rifts Earth and some of the most MDC. I also beleive it boosts the highest range (what 2 miles with that boom gun) sure you can kill it, but you have to get to it first. It's neigh immune to lasers which coincidently are the brunt of the Rifts arsenel. I mean, you play a glitterboy, you are just better.

[say652]

Seems to me that Rifts is already a "super-powered" game. No, not the spandex wearing "here I come to save the day" types, but pretty close. A juicer has Extraordinary physical strength and endurance, many of the Rifts psionic and magic classes are more powerful than their HU counterparts. In a world where Demi-Gods and Godlings walk side by side with dragons and alien intelligences, I don't see how a super-powered character is going to throw off game balance. Game balance in Rifts is kind of a joke.

I'm not joking, I literally can kill a glitter-boy with only a single super power.

ok this i gotta hear. how can one power kill a glitterboy? i can think of no superpower that comes close to dealing as much damage as its boomgun.

Transmutation
Powers Unlimited 3 pg 104
Not only does the power let me change the composition of inanimate matter, but also shift the state as well. Ever heard of plasma? Yeah, it's the fourth state of matter.
Turn the Glitter-Boys helmet into plasma, watch the pilots skull melt. Done and done, one dead glitter boy and it only took 1 attack.
Suffice to say that I will never even entertain the notion of superpowers of any kind in any of my games without HEAVY modification.

riposte. i sneak over and stab him in the face with my phasesword.

[Jay05]

Well fine then, see example "single super power kills glitter-boy".[/quote]
limiting individual super powers is not the same as nixing supers across the board. The latter is overly controlling and creatively stifling. Honestly I'd forgotten about that power. That's one I'd nix even in my HU games, because... wow. However, as I've said before, if a GM's players are the type to constantly create characters with the intent of disrupting the flow of the game, I'd talk to the player in question. That to me is the definition of munchkin. And that has not a damn thing to do with the powers involved.[/quote]
What I'm pointing out is that it's so easy to do. So while all the books are compatible with each other, one can't go willy nilly allowing things without carefully considering all the aspects or something like this is bound to happen. It's not like I manipulated transmutation in a manner that wasn't intended, I didn't even have to finangle anything. And I personally don't allow unmodified superpowers since I can do some pretty ridiculous stuff with a majority of the major powers. Although I guess it's just a personal choice.[/quote]

If you can do ridiculous stuff with most of the major powers (which is true) as a player you ought to be able to do the same as a GM right? Meaning being that smart you should be able to counter your players when combat is called for. As for modding powers, I don't see how most of them need it, and yeah transmutation is broken. Most of the powers especially in the main HU book aren't. I guess to form a more complete opinion I'd have to have an example of how you mod powers.

[GenThunderfist]

I'm not joking, I literally can kill a glitter-boy with only a single super power.

ok this i gotta hear. how can one power kill a glitterboy? i can think of no superpower that comes close to dealing as much damage as its boomgun.

Transmutation
Powers Unlimited 3 pg 104
Not only does the power let me change the composition of inanimate matter, but also shift the state as well. Ever heard of plasma? Yeah, it's the fourth state of matter.
Turn the Glitter-Boys helmet into plasma, watch the pilots skull melt. Done and done, one dead glitter boy and it only took 1 attack.
Suffice to say that I will never even entertain the notion of superpowers of any kind in any of my games without HEAVY modification.

riposte. i sneak over and stab him in the face with my phasesword.

Phaseswords are not actually statted as going through MDC material, only phase beamers

I think the more important point is how did you A) Get close enough to a GB to kill it in hand to hand and B) get a freakin' phasesword on Rifts Earth?

[Nightmask]

I do not see why people ***** so much about book legal character classes. Especially those written by KS himself. I mean if the designer of the game you're playing obviously doesn't think a class is too powerful to play in Rifts or for a GM to handle, why should anyone else? And to clarify; I'm not referring to min/max bs or outlandish combinations of RCC and OCC that skirt the realms of sanity. I'm referring to classes as written in Canon PB books. And to those who start yelling "but it's not RIFTS", no it's the Palladium Megaverse! The games were designed to crossover. I don't know why people seem to forget or ignore this simple fact. And yes KS provides GM out in every core book where he says something to the effect of if you don't like it don't use it. Ok, fine. It's an out, if one is needed, perhaps a hypothetical gm should take a look at those he/she games with or their own skill level.

They complain because individually they have trouble working them in or dealing with the possibilities they bring to the table, so they just demonize the entire group and ban it as 'too unbalanced' even if all you wanted was a Daredevil-esque dude with enhanced senses and a healing factor. Just as we saw in another thread with complaints about Sixth Sense because 'Oh no however will I deal with things if I can't get away with ambushing a party'.

[GenThunderfist]

I do not see why people ***** so much about book legal character classes. Especially those written by KS himself. I mean if the designer of the game you're playing obviously doesn't think a class is too powerful to play in Rifts or for a GM to handle, why should anyone else? And to clarify; I'm not referring to min/max bs or outlandish combinations of RCC and OCC that skirt the realms of sanity. I'm referring to classes as written in Canon PB books. And to those who start yelling "but it's not RIFTS", no it's the Palladium Megaverse! The games were designed to crossover. I don't know why people seem to forget or ignore this simple fact. And yes KS provides GM out in every core book where he says something to the effect of if you don't like it don't use it. Ok, fine. It's an out, if one is needed, perhaps a hypothetical gm should take a look at those he/she games with or their own skill level.

They complain because individually they have trouble working them in or dealing with the possibilities they bring to the table, so they just demonize the entire group and ban it as 'too unbalanced' even if all you wanted was a Daredevil-esque dude with enhanced senses and a healing factor. Just as we saw in another thread with complaints about Sixth Sense because 'Oh no however will I deal with things if I can't get away with ambushing a party'.

You can get a Daredevil-esque dude without super powers. All you need is like a juicer, or there are some D-Bees that have advanced healing factors, or a crazy, or a anything with minor psionics and bio-regeneration. You don't need super powers for that. The only thing you NEED super powers for is to one hit kill God.

[Jay05]

If you can do ridiculous stuff with most of the major powers (which is true) as a player you ought to be able to do the same as a GM right? Meaning being that smart you should be able to counter your players when combat is called for. As for modding powers, I don't see how most of them need it, and yeah transmutation is broken. Most of the powers especially in the main HU book aren't. I guess to form a more complete opinion I'd have to have an example of how you mod powers.

I mod powers like this:
Player: "Can I do *this* with my power, it says I can?"
Me: "No"
Player: "Why?"
Me: "Because I think it's stupid so stop asking"

And personally, I like the general standing treaty that I have with my players right now that as long as none of them intentionally try and break the game I won't make them fight one of a hundred different game breaking characters that I have on the back burner. Unfortunately I fear the inclusion of super powers is too great of a temptation for them and they may walk down a dangerous path that ends in invincible juicers and characters that can make a 100+ strikes in a single attack .
Although superpowers aren't the only thing I limit in this manner. A lot of material I don't usually allow outside it's own setting such as Nightbane, Splicers (personally had a bad experience with that one), and even a few of the dimension books.

And again "Because I think it's stupid" is overly controlling BS. Further conversation on this topic is pointless. I believe we must agree to disagree here.

[Nightmask]

I do not see why people ***** so much about book legal character classes. Especially those written by KS himself. I mean if the designer of the game you're playing obviously doesn't think a class is too powerful to play in Rifts or for a GM to handle, why should anyone else? And to clarify; I'm not referring to min/max bs or outlandish combinations of RCC and OCC that skirt the realms of sanity. I'm referring to classes as written in Canon PB books. And to those who start yelling "but it's not RIFTS", no it's the Palladium Megaverse! The games were designed to crossover. I don't know why people seem to forget or ignore this simple fact. And yes KS provides GM out in every core book where he says something to the effect of if you don't like it don't use it. Ok, fine. It's an out, if one is needed, perhaps a hypothetical gm should take a look at those he/she games with or their own skill level.

They complain because individually they have trouble working them in or dealing with the possibilities they bring to the table, so they just demonize the entire group and ban it as 'too unbalanced' even if all you wanted was a Daredevil-esque dude with enhanced senses and a healing factor. Just as we saw in another thread with complaints about Sixth Sense because 'Oh no however will I deal with things if I can't get away with ambushing a party'.

You can get a Daredevil-esque dude without super powers. All you need is like a juicer, or there are some D-Bees that have advanced healing factors, or a crazy, or a anything with minor psionics and bio-regeneration. You don't need super powers for that. The only thing you NEED super powers for is to one hit kill God.

Juicers ARE super-powered, so are Crazies and that D-bee with an advanced healing factor, and no that's just so utterly wrong a claim it's hard to formulate a proper response to cover how wrong it is. There are NO super-powers that are going to one-hit kill any god or alien intelligence, if there is one that might take out a Glitter Boy in one shot I don't know of it off the top of my head. A character with all senses heightened and a healing factor is NOT going to be one-hit-killing anyone in Rifts, not without using an anti-matter grenade or something else high-powered. It's definitely NOT going to be one-hit-killing a god and most definitely one needed Super-powers to create a character that fulfilled a purpose other than killing powerful beings.

You are looking at the most powerful and destructive super-powers and behaving as if all super-powers are top tier powerful and destructive which is absurd. Even most of the Major powers fail at being particularly destructive (Invisibility, Intangibility, Immortality, Alter Metabolism). You have issues with super-powers in a game filled with super-powered beings, it's unfathomable how you manage to pull that off other than compartmentatlizing and insisting that a super-power isn't really a super-power (when it is) because a character has it from a race or some other way.

[Jay05]

I do not see why people ***** so much about book legal character classes. Especially those written by KS himself. I mean if the designer of the game you're playing obviously doesn't think a class is too powerful to play in Rifts or for a GM to handle, why should anyone else? And to clarify; I'm not referring to min/max bs or outlandish combinations of RCC and OCC that skirt the realms of sanity. I'm referring to classes as written in Canon PB books. And to those who start yelling "but it's not RIFTS", no it's the Palladium Megaverse! The games were designed to crossover. I don't know why people seem to forget or ignore this simple fact. And yes KS provides GM out in every core book where he says something to the effect of if you don't like it don't use it. Ok, fine. It's an out, if one is needed, perhaps a hypothetical gm should take a look at those he/she games with or their own skill level.

They complain because individually they have trouble working them in or dealing with the possibilities they bring to the table, so they just demonize the entire group and ban it as 'too unbalanced' even if all you wanted was a Daredevil-esque dude with enhanced senses and a healing factor. Just as we saw in another thread with complaints about Sixth Sense because 'Oh no however will I deal with things if I can't get away with ambushing a party'.

This time we agree completely Nightmask!

[Jay05]

If you can do ridiculous stuff with most of the major powers (which is true) as a player you ought to be able to do the same as a GM right? Meaning being that smart you should be able to counter your players when combat is called for. As for modding powers, I don't see how most of them need it, and yeah transmutation is broken. Most of the powers especially in the main HU book aren't. I guess to form a more complete opinion I'd have to have an example of how you mod powers.

I mod powers like this:
Player: "Can I do *this* with my power, it says I can?"
Me: "No"
Player: "Why?"
Me: "Because I think it's stupid so stop asking"

And personally, I like the general standing treaty that I have with my players right now that as long as none of them intentionally try and break the game I won't make them fight one of a hundred different game breaking characters that I have on the back burner. Unfortunately I fear the inclusion of super powers is too great of a temptation for them and they may walk down a dangerous path that ends in invincible juicers and characters that can make a 100+ strikes in a single attack .
Although superpowers aren't the only thing I limit in this manner. A lot of material I don't usually allow outside it's own setting such as Nightbane, Splicers (personally had a bad experience with that one), and even a few of the dimension books.

And again "Because I think it's stupid" is overly controlling BS. Further conversation on this topic is pointless. I believe we must agree to disagree here.

I'm fine with that, although my players seem to be fine with that reasoning and don't call me over controlling or anywhere near the sort so I'm pretty satisfied with my methods.

Well, if your players are happy, good for you. And them. However, "Because I think it's stupid so stop asking." Is a response a parent gives children. Are your players your children? Or do they just not mind being treated as such?

[GenThunderfist]

I do not see why people ***** so much about book legal character classes. Especially those written by KS himself. I mean if the designer of the game you're playing obviously doesn't think a class is too powerful to play in Rifts or for a GM to handle, why should anyone else? And to clarify; I'm not referring to min/max bs or outlandish combinations of RCC and OCC that skirt the realms of sanity. I'm referring to classes as written in Canon PB books. And to those who start yelling "but it's not RIFTS", no it's the Palladium Megaverse! The games were designed to crossover. I don't know why people seem to forget or ignore this simple fact. And yes KS provides GM out in every core book where he says something to the effect of if you don't like it don't use it. Ok, fine. It's an out, if one is needed, perhaps a hypothetical gm should take a look at those he/she games with or their own skill level.

They complain because individually they have trouble working them in or dealing with the possibilities they bring to the table, so they just demonize the entire group and ban it as 'too unbalanced' even if all you wanted was a Daredevil-esque dude with enhanced senses and a healing factor. Just as we saw in another thread with complaints about Sixth Sense because 'Oh no however will I deal with things if I can't get away with ambushing a party'.

You can get a Daredevil-esque dude without super powers. All you need is like a juicer, or there are some D-Bees that have advanced healing factors, or a crazy, or a anything with minor psionics and bio-regeneration. You don't need super powers for that. The only thing you NEED super powers for is to one hit kill God.

Juicers ARE super-powered, so are Crazies and that D-bee with an advanced healing factor, and no that's just so utterly wrong a claim it's hard to formulate a proper response to cover how wrong it is. There are NO super-powers that are going to one-hit kill any god or alien intelligence, if there is one that might take out a Glitter Boy in one shot I don't know of it off the top of my head. A character with all senses heightened and a healing factor is NOT going to be one-hit-killing anyone in Rifts, not without using an anti-matter grenade or something else high-powered. It's definitely NOT going to be one-hit-killing a god and most definitely one needed Super-powers to create a character that fulfilled a purpose other than killing powerful beings.

You are looking at the most powerful and destructive super-powers and behaving as if all super-powers are top tier powerful and destructive which is absurd. Even most of the Major powers fail at being particularly destructive (Invisibility, Intangibility, Immortality, Alter Metabolism). You have issues with super-powers in a game filled with super-powered beings, it's unfathomable how you manage to pull that off other than compartmentatlizing and insisting that a super-power isn't really a super-power (when it is) because a character has it from a race or some other way.

Right, that's what I was saying. They are super-powered WITHOUT NEEDING SUPER POWERS. APS-Fire can one hit kill most things by doing 10,000 MDC flat without any roles. That's a STANDARD major power. The Glitter Boy Killer has already been mentioned Transmutation, because it is so loosley limited and defined that it is by all intents and terms broken. As are MOST of the powers in the books short of minor powers, and half of those are pretty arbitrary without limits as well. The powers are so loosley defined at termed that breaking them is as simple as breathing.
Intangibility? I can USE MY POWERS IN THAT STATE AND NEVER BE HURT. Immortality? You don't die, its a pretty good boost. The powers are cool, and interesting, like psionics are, but more powerful x100 because no limits exist. It's ridiculous. Besides, as I know has been said on this board before, it's not like I go around allowing all my players to run off as Godlings either. Superpowers are one of the many things in Rifts that is overbalancing to the point of ridiculousness.

[Jay05]

I do not see why people ***** so much about book legal character classes. Especially those written by KS himself. I mean if the designer of the game you're playing obviously doesn't think a class is too powerful to play in Rifts or for a GM to handle, why should anyone else? And to clarify; I'm not referring to min/max bs or outlandish combinations of RCC and OCC that skirt the realms of sanity. I'm referring to classes as written in Canon PB books. And to those who start yelling "but it's not RIFTS", no it's the Palladium Megaverse! The games were designed to crossover. I don't know why people seem to forget or ignore this simple fact. And yes KS provides GM out in every core book where he says something to the effect of if you don't like it don't use it. Ok, fine. It's an out, if one is needed, perhaps a hypothetical gm should take a look at those he/she games with or their own skill level.

They complain because individually they have trouble working them in or dealing with the possibilities they bring to the table, so they just demonize the entire group and ban it as 'too unbalanced' even if all you wanted was a Daredevil-esque dude with enhanced senses and a healing factor. Just as we saw in another thread with complaints about Sixth Sense because 'Oh no however will I deal with things if I can't get away with ambushing a party'.

You can get a Daredevil-esque dude without super powers. All you need is like a juicer, or there are some D-Bees that have advanced healing factors, or a crazy, or a anything with minor psionics and bio-regeneration. You don't need super powers for that. The only thing you NEED super powers for is to one hit kill God.

Juicers ARE super-powered, so are Crazies and that D-bee with an advanced healing factor, and no that's just so utterly wrong a claim it's hard to formulate a proper response to cover how wrong it is. There are NO super-powers that are going to one-hit kill any god or alien intelligence, if there is one that might take out a Glitter Boy in one shot I don't know of it off the top of my head. A character with all senses heightened and a healing factor is NOT going to be one-hit-killing anyone in Rifts, not without using an anti-matter grenade or something else high-powered. It's definitely NOT going to be one-hit-killing a god and most definitely one needed Super-powers to create a character that fulfilled a purpose other than killing powerful beings.

You are looking at the most powerful and destructive super-powers and behaving as if all super-powers are top tier powerful and destructive which is absurd. Even most of the Major powers fail at being particularly destructive (Invisibility, Intangibility, Immortality, Alter Metabolism). You have issues with super-powers in a game filled with super-powered beings, it's unfathomable how you manage to pull that off other than compartmentatlizing and insisting that a super-power isn't really a super-power (when it is) because a character has it from a race or some other way.

Right, that's what I was saying. They are super-powered WITHOUT NEEDING SUPER POWERS. APS-Fire can one hit kill most things by doing 10,000 MDC flat without any roles. That's a STANDARD major power. The Glitter Boy Killer has already been mentioned Transmutation, because it is so loosley limited and defined that it is by all intents and terms broken. As are MOST of the powers in the books short of minor powers, and half of those are pretty arbitrary without limits as well. The powers are so loosley defined at termed that breaking them is as simple as breathing.
Intangibility? I can USE MY POWERS IN THAT STATE AND NEVER BE HURT. Immortality? You don't die, its a pretty good boost. The powers are cool, and interesting, like psionics are, but more powerful x100 because no limits exist. It's ridiculous. Besides, as I know has been said on this board before, it's not like I go around allowing all my players to run off as Godlings either. Superpowers are one of the many things in Rifts that is overbalancing to the point of ridiculousness.

Dude, where did you get that crazy MD damage for APS fire?! Pg 44 Rifts Conversion book "All fire charges inflict mega-damage instead of SDC damage that means a 1 for 1 conversion. If it's been changed in the revised edition let me know. Immortality is mostly about aging if you actually read the power.

[GenThunderfist]

They complain because individually they have trouble working them in or dealing with the possibilities they bring to the table, so they just demonize the entire group and ban it as 'too unbalanced' even if all you wanted was a Daredevil-esque dude with enhanced senses and a healing factor. Just as we saw in another thread with complaints about Sixth Sense because 'Oh no however will I deal with things if I can't get away with ambushing a party'.

You can get a Daredevil-esque dude without super powers. All you need is like a juicer, or there are some D-Bees that have advanced healing factors, or a crazy, or a anything with minor psionics and bio-regeneration. You don't need super powers for that. The only thing you NEED super powers for is to one hit kill God.

Juicers ARE super-powered, so are Crazies and that D-bee with an advanced healing factor, and no that's just so utterly wrong a claim it's hard to formulate a proper response to cover how wrong it is. There are NO super-powers that are going to one-hit kill any god or alien intelligence, if there is one that might take out a Glitter Boy in one shot I don't know of it off the top of my head. A character with all senses heightened and a healing factor is NOT going to be one-hit-killing anyone in Rifts, not without using an anti-matter grenade or something else high-powered. It's definitely NOT going to be one-hit-killing a god and most definitely one needed Super-powers to create a character that fulfilled a purpose other than killing powerful beings.

You are looking at the most powerful and destructive super-powers and behaving as if all super-powers are top tier powerful and destructive which is absurd. Even most of the Major powers fail at being particularly destructive (Invisibility, Intangibility, Immortality, Alter Metabolism). You have issues with super-powers in a game filled with super-powered beings, it's unfathomable how you manage to pull that off other than compartmentatlizing and insisting that a super-power isn't really a super-power (when it is) because a character has it from a race or some other way.

Right, that's what I was saying. They are super-powered WITHOUT NEEDING SUPER POWERS. APS-Fire can one hit kill most things by doing 10,000 MDC flat without any roles. That's a STANDARD major power. The Glitter Boy Killer has already been mentioned Transmutation, because it is so loosley limited and defined that it is by all intents and terms broken. As are MOST of the powers in the books short of minor powers, and half of those are pretty arbitrary without limits as well. The powers are so loosley defined at termed that breaking them is as simple as breathing.
Intangibility? I can USE MY POWERS IN THAT STATE AND NEVER BE HURT. Immortality? You don't die, its a pretty good boost. The powers are cool, and interesting, like psionics are, but more powerful x100 because no limits exist. It's ridiculous. Besides, as I know has been said on this board before, it's not like I go around allowing all my players to run off as Godlings either. Superpowers are one of the many things in Rifts that is overbalancing to the point of ridiculousness.

Dude, where did you get that crazy MD damage for APS fire?! Pg 44 Rifts Conversion book "All fire charges inflict mega-damage instead of SDC damage that means a 1 for 1 conversion. If it's been changed in the revised edition let me know. Immortality is mostly about aging if you actually read the power.

The Fire Nova special ability. It's the final fall back of the APS fire power and it does 10,000 points of damage. Thanks for letting me know of the 1 to 1 I waasn't sure, but now I know. I. Can. Kill. God.

EDIT: Oh and no aging, yeah I'm not going to go look it up to make sure I can't break it because I don't really care to. But never dieing from natural causes is actually a huge boost based on the fact that I can now never suffer age related penalties and if I felt like it take my time to aquire every skill and such.

[GenThunderfist]

Lot's of things can kill a glitter-boy, they're not invulnerable.

Yeah, but in one attack while leaving both the gun completely intact and the suit almost completely so? That's a little bit completely ridiculous.

It's called, "Phase Technology"

You need to tell me your source for Phase Tech. on Rifts earth, because NO ONE SELLS IT. Besides, that's not an instant kill. It MIGHT be, but it's not assured since it does SDC/HP and the character might still save vs. coma and death. Plasma to the face? Not so much...

A single. Instant Kill. Super move. With no limiters. No set amounts per day. No isp cost. No bullet cost. No drawbacks in any sense of the word? Yeah. No. I don't think so.

[Nightmask]

The Fire Nova special ability. It's the final fall back of the APS fire power and it does 10,000 points of damage. Thanks for letting me know of the 1 to 1 I waasn't sure, but now I know. I. Can. Kill. God.

No, you can't. Also to put that power in context use of that ability takes time to build up to AND it's potentially lethal or can leave the character without the power of APS: Fire and cause insanities from the loss. The character CANNOT go around unleashing 10,000 damage fireballs at will or one right after the other, it's a majorly debilitating thing you don't use cavalierly if you want to still have a character to play.

[GenThunderfist]

The Fire Nova special ability. It's the final fall back of the APS fire power and it does 10,000 points of damage. Thanks for letting me know of the 1 to 1 I waasn't sure, but now I know. I. Can. Kill. God.

No, you can't. Also to put that power in context use of that ability takes time to build up to AND it's potentially lethal or can leave the character without the power of APS: Fire and cause insanities from the loss. The character CANNOT go around unleashing 10,000 damage fireballs at will or one right after the other, it's a majorly debilitating thing you don't use cavalierly if you want to still have a character to play.

If I'm in a fight with God, I don't think "This move might kill me" will come into play. Because God might kill me. Your point is devoid of meaning when both options are DIE. Sure it takes time to build. that's why I have Intangibility to prevent MOST forms of damage while I wait it out, or invisibility and hide, it has a 100 ft. radius. There are plenty of ridiculous options because Super Powers are ridiculous and poorly written.

[H.P. Hovercraft]

Well in one campain we ran in to Captian Colation and his side kick Dead Boy. Captian Colations Iron fist of the CS was brutal.

Our old campaign had a "Captain Coalition"-type, too; only he was known as the "Red Skull!" A CS superpatriot with a HARD abberrant alignment.

[Nightmask]

I do not see why people ***** so much about book legal character classes. Especially those written by KS himself. I mean if the designer of the game you're playing obviously doesn't think a class is too powerful to play in Rifts or for a GM to handle, why should anyone else? And to clarify; I'm not referring to min/max bs or outlandish combinations of RCC and OCC that skirt the realms of sanity. I'm referring to classes as written in Canon PB books. And to those who start yelling "but it's not RIFTS", no it's the Palladium Megaverse! The games were designed to crossover. I don't know why people seem to forget or ignore this simple fact. And yes KS provides GM out in every core book where he says something to the effect of if you don't like it don't use it. Ok, fine. It's an out, if one is needed, perhaps a hypothetical gm should take a look at those he/she games with or their own skill level.

They complain because individually they have trouble working them in or dealing with the possibilities they bring to the table, so they just demonize the entire group and ban it as 'too unbalanced' even if all you wanted was a Daredevil-esque dude with enhanced senses and a healing factor. Just as we saw in another thread with complaints about Sixth Sense because 'Oh no however will I deal with things if I can't get away with ambushing a party'.

You can get a Daredevil-esque dude without super powers. All you need is like a juicer, or there are some D-Bees that have advanced healing factors, or a crazy, or a anything with minor psionics and bio-regeneration. You don't need super powers for that. The only thing you NEED super powers for is to one hit kill God.

Juicers ARE super-powered, so are Crazies and that D-bee with an advanced healing factor, and no that's just so utterly wrong a claim it's hard to formulate a proper response to cover how wrong it is. There are NO super-powers that are going to one-hit kill any god or alien intelligence, if there is one that might take out a Glitter Boy in one shot I don't know of it off the top of my head. A character with all senses heightened and a healing factor is NOT going to be one-hit-killing anyone in Rifts, not without using an anti-matter grenade or something else high-powered. It's definitely NOT going to be one-hit-killing a god and most definitely one needed Super-powers to create a character that fulfilled a purpose other than killing powerful beings.

You are looking at the most powerful and destructive super-powers and behaving as if all super-powers are top tier powerful and destructive which is absurd. Even most of the Major powers fail at being particularly destructive (Invisibility, Intangibility, Immortality, Alter Metabolism). You have issues with super-powers in a game filled with super-powered beings, it's unfathomable how you manage to pull that off other than compartmentatlizing and insisting that a super-power isn't really a super-power (when it is) because a character has it from a race or some other way.

Right, that's what I was saying. They are super-powered WITHOUT NEEDING SUPER POWERS. APS-Fire can one hit kill most things by doing 10,000 MDC flat without any roles. That's a STANDARD major power. The Glitter Boy Killer has already been mentioned Transmutation, because it is so loosley limited and defined that it is by all intents and terms broken. As are MOST of the powers in the books short of minor powers, and half of those are pretty arbitrary without limits as well. The powers are so loosley defined at termed that breaking them is as simple as breathing.
Intangibility? I can USE MY POWERS IN THAT STATE AND NEVER BE HURT. Immortality? You don't die, its a pretty good boost. The powers are cool, and interesting, like psionics are, but more powerful x100 because no limits exist. It's ridiculous. Besides, as I know has been said on this board before, it's not like I go around allowing all my players to run off as Godlings either. Superpowers are one of the many things in Rifts that is overbalancing to the point of ridiculousness.

No, Juicers ARE Super-powered and they DO have Super-powers. Since when did you start thinking that enhanced healing, super-reflexes, and augmented SDC/HP didn't constitute a super-power? They aren't abilities common to humans, if they were you wouldn't have the Juicer class. They're super-powers.

Intangible characters CAN be hurt, and you can't do anything while intangible (Palladium deliberately nerfs the power so you can't pull off Kitty Pryde style attacks leaving lamp posts in people's chests). Immortality doesn't mean you can't die, it just means you stop aging. Seriously, it seems obvious you've never actually read any of the powers in the Heroes Unlimited book and have created an unrealistic view on how the powers work and how they'd interact in Rifts (or even HU for that matter).

[Jay05]

The Fire Nova special ability. It's the final fall back of the APS fire power and it does 10,000 points of damage. Thanks for letting me know of the 1 to 1 I waasn't sure, but now I know. I. Can. Kill. God.

No, you can't. Also to put that power in context use of that ability takes time to build up to AND it's potentially lethal or can leave the character without the power of APS: Fire and cause insanities from the loss. The character CANNOT go around unleashing 10,000 damage fireballs at will or one right after the other, it's a majorly debilitating thing you don't use cavalierly if you want to still have a character to play.

I stand corrected, I'd forgotten about the nova. and Nightmask is correct here, you use that sub power you auto-roll on a table that has 1-10% shuts the power off for a month, 11-25 pc loses the power permanently, with no replacement, 26-40 pc survives but burns out ALL powers, 41-85 the character is ATOMIZED, 86-100 character survives, but the power is lost and replaced by a new major power. and as Mask said must roll on the random insanity table. Not something most would do repeatedly. And certainly not frequently.