GM Pet Peeves

[flatline]

"It seems almost as if the monster feeds on metagaming; after each question the beast appears rejuvenated and larger in size!"

I actually played with a GM that would allow things that happened outside the game (like players using cuss words) to impact what was going on in game. It was his way of dealing with immature players.

It pretty much ruined things for the rest of us.

--flatline

[Stone Gargoyle]

Anyone ever get to the point as a GM where you throw up your hands and go; "I'm done. I physically can not do any more pre-wrting of material since the rest I've done to this point is 99% unused?"
Just wonderin'...

Why would a GM do significant planning before the PC's goals were clear?

--flatline

You have to do some planning or there is no campaign. What is annoying is when you have something set up and the player refuses to have his character do anything. I had one player who liked to have his character be lazy and sleep in even when the character was supposed to be a detective and out looking for clues. He made his character's writing skill the focus and instead of adventuring, he would play the character as lazy and only going about any adventuring at all to get ideas for the character's book. Then the player would complain that his character was not leveling up as fast as those of players who actually went on adventures regularly, and once even flat out tried to derail the session by trying to have his character get to the other characters to join in a battle he was missing but was clear across town for and there was no way to get him included in on.

[KillWatch]

What bothers me in some games is when the GM runs animal intelligence creatures as if they have some sort of vendetta against the players. Most animals, once moderately hurt will runaway to find easier pray. But not RPG creatures. they are going to kill you or die trying.

[SittingBull]

I do give the animals personalities but I agree, they are not going to be psychopathic fiends bent on vengeance. Except maybe the monkies who would take free shots with certain through items. LOL

[KillWatch]

Monkey: WP Thrown: Pooh

[Stone Gargoyle]

What bothers me in some games is when the GM runs animal intelligence creatures as if they have some sort of vendetta against the players. Most animals, once moderately hurt will runaway to find easier pray. But not RPG creatures. they are going to kill you or die trying.

I hate that as a player, so as GM I always take into consideration that enemies, whether animal or monster or villain, are likely to run away or back down if the fight is obviously overwhelming to them. Not every fight will be a fight to the death, and it annoys me when GMS make fights that way.

[The Beast]

I do give the animals personalities but I agree, they are not going to be psychopathic fiends bent on vengeance. Except maybe the monkies who would take free shots with certain through items. LOL

Well, at least not all of them...

[say652]

i also have intelligent villians surrendor when things start to go badly for them. if the pc's accept surrender then quarter will be given, i am sorry if the group has garnered a reputation for killing helpless unarmed foes and the badguys accepted your surrender and killed you. roll a new character maybe with less emphasize on doucheniess this time.

[Icefalcon]

i also have intelligent villians surrendor when things start to go badly for them. if the pc's accept surrender then quarter will be given, i am sorry if the group has garnered a reputation for killing helpless unarmed foes and the badguys accepted your surrender and killed you. roll a new character maybe with less emphasize on doucheniess this time.

I feel the same way. If they are given surrender and then kill the bad guys, then the same will happen to them eventually.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Where are you guys at that you have "Observers?" Play somewhere else... My only issue is messy character sheets/poor record keeping. example. I know they have 75,000 credits. They know they have 75,000 credits. Their sheet says 1,500 credits and a snow cone because they haven't updated it in 16 sessions of play. So guess what happens when they get to the shop... They have 1,500 credits and a damp pocket.

I have never seen this happen before. In all the groups I've played with, most everybody has been almost neurotic about not just keeping track of the character's personal inventory, but also recording information about things that might be useful to go back for in the future.

Personally, as a player, I always kept track of inventory in a seperate notebook since it changed so often that it would totally ruin the character sheet if I actually wrote it there.

--flatline

TRUTH! Post-it notes are a life saver. I've got one that says across the top AR. SDC. HP SDC. i've almost wore a hole in it from logging and erasing and repeating.

[Juce734]

Where are you guys at that you have "Observers?" Play somewhere else... My only issue is messy character sheets/poor record keeping. example. I know they have 75,000 credits. They know they have 75,000 credits. Their sheet says 1,500 credits and a snow cone because they haven't updated it in 16 sessions of play. So guess what happens when they get to the shop... They have 1,500 credits and a damp pocket.

I have never seen this happen before. In all the groups I've played with, most everybody has been almost neurotic about not just keeping track of the character's personal inventory, but also recording information about things that might be useful to go back for in the future.

Personally, as a player, I always kept track of inventory in a seperate notebook since it changed so often that it would totally ruin the character sheet if I actually wrote it there.

--flatline

TRUTH! Post-it notes are a life saver. I've got one that says across the top AR. SDC. HP SDC. i've almost wore a hole in it from logging and erasing and repeating.

You wrote it on there or you bought post it notes that had that on them already?

I personally use a scrap piece of paper or a notebook for my inventory, money, HP, SDC, AR, and things that can fluctuate during play.

[KillWatch]

I'll give him eco points for reusing

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Where are you guys at that you have "Observers?" Play somewhere else... My only issue is messy character sheets/poor record keeping. example. I know they have 75,000 credits. They know they have 75,000 credits. Their sheet says 1,500 credits and a snow cone because they haven't updated it in 16 sessions of play. So guess what happens when they get to the shop... They have 1,500 credits and a damp pocket.

I have never seen this happen before. In all the groups I've played with, most everybody has been almost neurotic about not just keeping track of the character's personal inventory, but also recording information about things that might be useful to go back for in the future.

Personally, as a player, I always kept track of inventory in a seperate notebook since it changed so often that it would totally ruin the character sheet if I actually wrote it there.

--flatline

TRUTH! Post-it notes are a life saver. I've got one that says across the top AR. SDC. HP SDC. i've almost wore a hole in it from logging and erasing and repeating.

You wrote it on there or you bought post it notes that had that on them already?

I personally use a scrap piece of paper or a notebook for my inventory, money, HP, SDC, AR, and things that can fluctuate during play.

Lol what? I wrote it on there, and reuse the daylights out of it. To buy them already like that would be a crazy coincidence.

[DhAkael]

What bothers me in some games is when the GM runs animal intelligence creatures as if they have some sort of vendetta against the players. Most animals, once moderately hurt will runaway to find easier pray. But not RPG creatures. they are going to kill you or die trying.

I hate that as a player, so as GM I always take into consideration that enemies, whether animal or monster or villain, are likely to run away or back down if the fight is obviously overwhelming to them. Not every fight will be a fight to the death, and it annoys me when GMS make fights that way.

This also makes combat in RIFTS far less tedious.

That's what I've done with the Necron(ol) when I've used them recently. Only a small portion of the raiding force will stay behind to fight to the death while the rest of the squad will retreat to;
1) Lick wounds.
2) Plan a retributive ambush at later time.

[Juce734]

Where are you guys at that you have "Observers?" Play somewhere else... My only issue is messy character sheets/poor record keeping. example. I know they have 75,000 credits. They know they have 75,000 credits. Their sheet says 1,500 credits and a snow cone because they haven't updated it in 16 sessions of play. So guess what happens when they get to the shop... They have 1,500 credits and a damp pocket.

I have never seen this happen before. In all the groups I've played with, most everybody has been almost neurotic about not just keeping track of the character's personal inventory, but also recording information about things that might be useful to go back for in the future.

Personally, as a player, I always kept track of inventory in a seperate notebook since it changed so often that it would totally ruin the character sheet if I actually wrote it there.

--flatline

TRUTH! Post-it notes are a life saver. I've got one that says across the top AR. SDC. HP SDC. i've almost wore a hole in it from logging and erasing and repeating.

You wrote it on there or you bought post it notes that had that on them already?

I personally use a scrap piece of paper or a notebook for my inventory, money, HP, SDC, AR, and things that can fluctuate during play.

Lol what? I wrote it on there, and reuse the daylights out of it. To buy them already like that would be a crazy coincidence.

I wasn't sure if you had some custom made like some businesses do. Would be cool if you did.

[Reagren Wright]

For you to have it, the thing better be on your character sheet. For example, "I light a torch.'
Then i say, "Do you have a torch on the sheet?" "Umm, no." "Well then you can't light what you
don't have." I once had a player forget to write his hit points down. He never noticed until a
month later . So I had his character die instantly. That's my only pet peeve in gaming.
Otherwise I'm pretty relaxed.

[Nekira Sudacne]

For you to have it, the thing better be on your character sheet. For example, "I light a torch.'
Then i say, "Do you have a torch on the sheet?" "Umm, no." "Well then you can't light what you
don't have." I once had a player forget to write his hit points down. He never noticed until a
month later . So I had his character die instantly. That's my only pet peeve in gaming.
Otherwise I'm pretty relaxed.

*Haggard looking guy in a tavern* "Yea, Lemme tell you, I've seen some crazy **** in my younger days, but ain't nothing quite compared. There was this guy I traveled with, decent fellow, funny guy, handy in a fight, then one day we were talking and he just...collapsed. Like, practically melted, as if his body had no structural intregrity at all. No bones, no organs, like someone had just sucked him hollow" *takes a long, long swig, staring off into the distance* "I still see his face sometimes, that pale, mushy, blob of a face..."

____


Yea, I just made that up on the fly. I thought about it, and I tried to picture what it would look like if the PC didn't HAVE HP, if HP represents your body's structural intergrity. it's like something out of a lovecraftian nightmare

[Damian Magecraft]

My biggest peeve?
Players out right denial when I see the end game of their argumen
I mean give me a break I have been playing for over 35years the last 25 as the guy behind the GM screen, it is highly probable that i have heard and seen most every conceivable player scam already.
You got caught... Just come clean...
Instead of trying to scam me how about trying to work with me instead? You might find that the idea has some merit with me but I want to impose a couple of limits on it to keep it from getting out of hand.

[SittingBull]

My biggest peeve?
Players out right denial when I see the end game of their argumen
I mean give me a break I have been playing for over 35years the last 25 as the guy behind the GM screen, it is highly probable that i have heard and seen most every conceivable player scam already.
You got caught... Just come clean...
Instead of trying to scam me how about trying to work with me instead? You might find that the idea has some merit with me but I want to impose a couple of limits on it to keep it from getting out of hand.

That's when you just pack up early and leave without a work. When the players contact you later about next game, just leave out that person.

[Icefalcon]

My biggest peeve?
Players out right denial when I see the end game of their argumen
I mean give me a break I have been playing for over 35years the last 25 as the guy behind the GM screen, it is highly probable that i have heard and seen most every conceivable player scam already.
You got caught... Just come clean...
Instead of trying to scam me how about trying to work with me instead? You might find that the idea has some merit with me but I want to impose a couple of limits on it to keep it from getting out of hand.

That's when you just pack up early and leave without a work. When the players contact you later about next game, just leave out that person.

Not always an option. Some of us live in an area were beggars can't be choosers. Then there is my other problem, I run at my place. However, I have been known to sit back and read a novel while my players are messing around until they get the message I am not happy with them.

I can understand Damian's problem. Some players just can't help themselves with pulling one over on the GM as if they are trying to "win" the game or "beat" the GM at something.

[Nekira Sudacne]

My biggest peeve?
Players out right denial when I see the end game of their argumen
I mean give me a break I have been playing for over 35years the last 25 as the guy behind the GM screen, it is highly probable that i have heard and seen most every conceivable player scam already.
You got caught... Just come clean...
Instead of trying to scam me how about trying to work with me instead? You might find that the idea has some merit with me but I want to impose a couple of limits on it to keep it from getting out of hand.

can you give an example? because I am not sure what your talking about. see the end game of what argument? trying to pull what over?

[ZorValachan]

For you to have it, the thing better be on your character sheet. For example, "I light a torch.'
Then i say, "Do you have a torch on the sheet?" "Umm, no." "Well then you can't light what you
don't have." I once had a player forget to write his hit points down. He never noticed until a
month later . So I had his character die instantly. That's my only pet peeve in gaming.
Otherwise I'm pretty relaxed.

In Star Wars D6, 1st edition blue book, the bounty hunter template had listed in equipment, "...knife, another knife..." I thought it funny and would always "draw another knife" and the GM for whatever reason would assume I had 2 knives out. I was doing it for fun and he was taking me literally That was probably one of his pet peeves later in GMing

[ZorValachan]

My biggest peeve?
Players out right denial when I see the end game of their argumen
I mean give me a break I have been playing for over 35years the last 25 as the guy behind the GM screen, it is highly probable that i have heard and seen most every conceivable player scam already.
You got caught... Just come clean...
Instead of trying to scam me how about trying to work with me instead? You might find that the idea has some merit with me but I want to impose a couple of limits on it to keep it from getting out of hand.

That's when you just pack up early and leave without a work. When the players contact you later about next game, just leave out that person.

Not always an option. Some of us live in an area were beggars can't be choosers. Then there is my other problem, I run at my place. However, I have been known to sit back and read a novel while my players are messing around until they get the message I am not happy with them.

I can understand Damian's problem. Some players just can't help themselves with pulling one over on the GM as if they are trying to "win" the game or "beat" the GM at something.

Also, some of us game with good friends who are friends first and gamers last. I've found it better to get tot the end of the session, cool down, talk to the player after cooling down and proceed from there. A "Get the **** out" and ruin a friendship over a game thing isn't something I'm going to do now, although once it did keep an immature me away from a couple of my best friends for 3 years. Cooling off back then sometimes took a while

[SittingBull]

My biggest peeve?
Players out right denial when I see the end game of their argumen
I mean give me a break I have been playing for over 35years the last 25 as the guy behind the GM screen, it is highly probable that i have heard and seen most every conceivable player scam already.
You got caught... Just come clean...
Instead of trying to scam me how about trying to work with me instead? You might find that the idea has some merit with me but I want to impose a couple of limits on it to keep it from getting out of hand.

can you give an example? because I am not sure what your talking about. see the end game of what argument? trying to pull what over?

To see the 'end game' of any argument the player is trying to intentionally manipulate to his advantage, sadly as some players just like to do.

[Nekira Sudacne]

My biggest peeve?
Players out right denial when I see the end game of their argumen
I mean give me a break I have been playing for over 35years the last 25 as the guy behind the GM screen, it is highly probable that i have heard and seen most every conceivable player scam already.
You got caught... Just come clean...
Instead of trying to scam me how about trying to work with me instead? You might find that the idea has some merit with me but I want to impose a couple of limits on it to keep it from getting out of hand.

can you give an example? because I am not sure what your talking about. see the end game of what argument? trying to pull what over?

To see the 'end game' of any argument the player is trying to intentionally manipulate to his advantage, sadly as some players just like to do.

I guess i'm just asking what you consider to be a scam or manipulation and what's a legimate attempt to argue use the rules as they're persented.

[SittingBull]

Like a player who sees kick-boxing as giving a free kick attack. Then the player tries to do unreasonable stuff with his feet (not an attack) just to get an extra action. Thats the best I can think of off hand. I haven't had a problem player in over a decade.

I did have one player who went by the books 100%. If you tried to change ANYTHING it was ugly. Then he would still try/plan to do things in a way, legal by the books, but not allowed in game. For example: I have always done boxing as no extra attack. He would still try to get his extra action if I didn't stop him. He never recognized a GM's right to have final say or to make house rules.

[flatline]

Like a player who sees kick-boxing as giving a free kick attack. Then the player tries to do unreasonable stuff with his feet (not an attack) just to get an extra action. Thats the best I can think of off hand. I haven't had a problem player in over a decade.

I did have one player who went by the books 100%. If you tried to change ANYTHING it was ugly. Then he would still try/plan to do things in a way, legal by the books, but not allowed in game. For example: I have always done boxing as no extra attack. He would still try to get his extra action if I didn't stop him. He never recognized a GM's right to have final say or to make house rules.

Interesting bit of trivia: if you get rid of attacks per melee, suddenly nobody cares about Boxing.

--flatline

[SittingBull]

The only people who still choose it were the players trying to "munchkin-ize" there characters stats.

[Syndicate]

The only people who still choose it were the players trying to "munchkin-ize" there characters stats.

Weeellll...

It sounds like you've had a bad experience with this before. That experience shouldn't taint your view of the rules TOO much. (1) bonus attack per melee isn't exactly what I'd call "munchkinizing" (perhaps being able to take it multiple times to stack attacks). If you're a warrior-class/combat focused O.C.C./R.C.C. and physical skills already dominate your book-written skill list...especially if boxing IS prelisted in that list...can you really blame the player?

I would have a problem with a Rogue Scientist attempting to take every physical skill he could to make himself above average in combat...but a Juicer...not so much (assuming that scenario).

[Syndicate]

My Pet Peeve...

...bringing in Non-Rifts O.C.C.s (I understand some people having only a limited amount of resources to work with...but I'm willing to lend my collection). ESPECIALLY HU characters.

Now, I try to be flexible as a GM...I can roll with the punches and create content "on-the-fly", but personally its "gloves-off" once I hear you're "trying' to bring in your 11th level Elven, Warrior from PFRPG. I'll rant to you for a few minutes (in private if possible) about how that is a pet-peeve of mine.

[Stone Gargoyle]

My Pet Peeve...

...bringing in Non-Rifts O.C.C.s (I understand some people having only a limited amount of resources to work with...but I'm willing to lend my collection). ESPECIALLY HU characters.

Now, I try to be flexible as a GM...I can roll with the punches and create content "on-the-fly", but personally its "gloves-off" once I hear you're "trying' to bring in your 11th level Elven, Warrior from PFRPG. I'll rant to you for a few minutes (in private if possible) about how that is a pet-peeve of mine.

I have the opposite peeve, people trying to bring Rifts characters into a HU2 game.

[Damian Magecraft]

My Pet Peeve...

...bringing in Non-Rifts O.C.C.s (I understand some people having only a limited amount of resources to work with...but I'm willing to lend my collection). ESPECIALLY HU characters.

Now, I try to be flexible as a GM...I can roll with the punches and create content "on-the-fly", but personally its "gloves-off" once I hear you're "trying' to bring in your 11th level Elven, Warrior from PFRPG. I'll rant to you for a few minutes (in private if possible) about how that is a pet-peeve of mine.

I have the opposite peeve, people trying to bring Rifts characters into a HU2 game.

Never had an issue with that myself... (heck one of my long standing House Rules is called the Megaversal option: If it is from a Palladium product it is fair game)
Of course as the GM I reserve the right (and most likely will exercise it) to adjust all relevant stats and bonuses to fit my setting.

[say652]

i don't care what people use as their idea of a hero as long as its in a PALLADIUM BOOK. Another pet peeve is created occ's no its not a character class,but.......show it to me in a book. i am iffy about allowing new powers from the new powers post also. i view all books in the system as source books to be used in your game, after all it is a game about TRAVELLING DIMENSIONS. as long as a player is fair stays within the level restrictions and doesn't go crazy with their equipment i see no problem with supers and cosmoknights adventuring with leyline walkers and russian shock troopers.

[Nightmask]

My Pet Peeve...

...bringing in Non-Rifts O.C.C.s (I understand some people having only a limited amount of resources to work with...but I'm willing to lend my collection). ESPECIALLY HU characters.

Now, I try to be flexible as a GM...I can roll with the punches and create content "on-the-fly", but personally its "gloves-off" once I hear you're "trying' to bring in your 11th level Elven, Warrior from PFRPG. I'll rant to you for a few minutes (in private if possible) about how that is a pet-peeve of mine.

Why such animosity towards Heroes Unlimited characters? Not every mutant is a power-house and certainly most of the classes are SDC/HP creatures and comparable to the characters you find in the Rifts books. The nature of Rifts is explicitly rooted in the setting being a melting pot of characters from every setting due to the random nature of rifts causing things from every setting to occasionally get stuck there.

[The Jack]

My pet peeve as a GM has been players who make one dimensional, one trick pony characters, and don't give a moment's thought to character background and development. These type of players have, in my experience, come part and parcel with a host of other issues which make them difficult to GM. They are more concerned with what their character can do (usually focused on a very specific power or ability they are maxing out), rather than who they are.

I discovered early on GMing Palladium games how to manage a campaign with characters of radically different "power" levels. One of the main attractions for players in the Rifts setting is the wondrous variety of character options. Anything from an ultra powerful super hero to a regular Joe who got caught up in the action, there is something for everyone.

The key to making the game playable without restricting players in a manner which takes the fun out of the setting has little to do with the notion of game balance (there is not much to be found). The trick for me has been demanding well developed characters and creating adventures which require role playing and a wide variety of skillsets applied in order for the players succeed. I let my players know that if they expect me to put the time and effort required into developing an adventure for them, then they had better put in the time and effort to conceptualize and develop a multi-dimensional character.

My other pet peeve is players who show up to socialize instead of roleplay. A certain amount of table talk, chatting with friends, and developing a rapport with other players is a natural and fun part of roleplaying. Treating game night like a house party is not.

[ZorValachan]

My Pet Peeve...

...bringing in Non-Rifts O.C.C.s (I understand some people having only a limited amount of resources to work with...but I'm willing to lend my collection). ESPECIALLY HU characters.

Now, I try to be flexible as a GM...I can roll with the punches and create content "on-the-fly", but personally its "gloves-off" once I hear you're "trying' to bring in your 11th level Elven, Warrior from PFRPG. I'll rant to you for a few minutes (in private if possible) about how that is a pet-peeve of mine.

Why such animosity towards Heroes Unlimited characters? Not every mutant is a power-house and certainly most of the classes are SDC/HP creatures and comparable to the characters you find in the Rifts books. The nature of Rifts is explicitly rooted in the setting being a melting pot of characters from every setting due to the random nature of rifts causing things from every setting to occasionally get stuck there.

Because in many of our experiences, those people do not want the low power options. They want the powers that give them MDC on cyborg levels and energy expulsions that increase over levels. If they chose low powered options then they seem not be be on par with the OCC/RCC skills/abilities. In that case I would prefer them to choose a vagabond/city rat/scholar or even man at arms type and tack on a power.

[say652]

you have never played ADnD until you have played ADnD at a Dominatrix's house one room dice and rpg's the next room............well people hanging from the ceiling her transvestite husband whipping people......a good night was had by all i am sure.

[Stone Gargoyle]

My Pet Peeve...

...bringing in Non-Rifts O.C.C.s (I understand some people having only a limited amount of resources to work with...but I'm willing to lend my collection). ESPECIALLY HU characters.

Now, I try to be flexible as a GM...I can roll with the punches and create content "on-the-fly", but personally its "gloves-off" once I hear you're "trying' to bring in your 11th level Elven, Warrior from PFRPG. I'll rant to you for a few minutes (in private if possible) about how that is a pet-peeve of mine.

I have the opposite peeve, people trying to bring Rifts characters into a HU2 game.

Never had an issue with that myself... (heck one of my long standing House Rules is called the Megaversal option: If it is from a Palladium product it is fair game)
Of course as the GM I reserve the right (and most likely will exercise it) to adjust all relevant stats and bonuses to fit my setting.

I had the bad experience once of allowing a Rifts character to be used in my HU2 game that was a Juicer Ninja and he had like a +14 bonus to save vs. poison or some such. It was like that for all his stats, so there was very little I could do to make it challenging for the player and it was unfair to other players that this one character had such inflated bonuses across the board. I was also just starting as a GM and it made me have the rule that first I have to have all characters rolled in front of me and second that no OCCS can be brought in from books I do not own, and I own very few Rifts books.

[say652]

My Pet Peeve...

...bringing in Non-Rifts O.C.C.s (I understand some people having only a limited amount of resources to work with...but I'm willing to lend my collection). ESPECIALLY HU characters.

Now, I try to be flexible as a GM...I can roll with the punches and create content "on-the-fly", but personally its "gloves-off" once I hear you're "trying' to bring in your 11th level Elven, Warrior from PFRPG. I'll rant to you for a few minutes (in private if possible) about how that is a pet-peeve of mine.

I have the opposite peeve, people trying to bring Rifts characters into a HU2 game.

Never had an issue with that myself... (heck one of my long standing House Rules is called the Megaversal option: If it is from a Palladium product it is fair game)
Of course as the GM I reserve the right (and most likely will exercise it) to adjust all relevant stats and bonuses to fit my setting.

I had the bad experience once of allowing a Rifts character to be used in my HU2 game that was a Juicer Ninja and he had like a +14 bonus to save vs. poison or some such. It was like that for all his stats, so there was very little I could do to make it challenging for the player and it was unfair to other players that this one character had such inflated bonuses across the board. I was also just starting as a GM and it made me have the rule that first I have to have all characters rolled in front of me and second that no OCCS can be brought in from books I do not own, and I own very few Rifts books.

juicers???? just use gm power to advance the game in time 4 or 5 years.

[Damian Magecraft]

My Pet Peeve...

...bringing in Non-Rifts O.C.C.s (I understand some people having only a limited amount of resources to work with...but I'm willing to lend my collection). ESPECIALLY HU characters.

Now, I try to be flexible as a GM...I can roll with the punches and create content "on-the-fly", but personally its "gloves-off" once I hear you're "trying' to bring in your 11th level Elven, Warrior from PFRPG. I'll rant to you for a few minutes (in private if possible) about how that is a pet-peeve of mine.

I have the opposite peeve, people trying to bring Rifts characters into a HU2 game.

Never had an issue with that myself... (heck one of my long standing House Rules is called the Megaversal option: If it is from a Palladium product it is fair game)
Of course as the GM I reserve the right (and most likely will exercise it) to adjust all relevant stats and bonuses to fit my setting.

I had the bad experience once of allowing a Rifts character to be used in my HU2 game that was a Juicer Ninja and he had like a +14 bonus to save vs. poison or some such. It was like that for all his stats, so there was very little I could do to make it challenging for the player and it was unfair to other players that this one character had such inflated bonuses across the board. I was also just starting as a GM and it made me have the rule that first I have to have all characters rolled in front of me and second that no OCCS can be brought in from books I do not own, and I own very few Rifts books.

fair rules... I utilize similar rules myself
but my question is this...
Would you allow a PA player to utilize the Rifts option to save time on char creation?
Example: in one HU game I ran; I had a player who was clueless as to what he wanted to run and let the dice decide...
He rolled and got robot/exoskeleton. He liked the idea but did want to waste a lot of time designing his suit. So he asked if he could just run a Glitterboy (converted to sdc) and have the gun be a sonic canon? (only the side effects and minor SDC damage [3d6] applied).
I thought the idea was pretty cool and allowed it.

[Stone Gargoyle]

my question is this...
Would you allow a PA player to utilize the Rifts option to save time on char creation?
Example: in one HU game I ran; I had a player who was clueless as to what he wanted to run and let the dice decide...
He rolled and got robot/exoskeleton. He liked the idea but did want to waste a lot of time designing his suit. So he asked if he could just run a Glitterboy (converted to sdc) and have the gun be a sonic canon? (only the side effects and minor SDC damage [3d6] applied).
I thought the idea was pretty cool and allowed it.

It would have to be on a case by case basis, and I would have to go ever everything before allowing it. My mistake was saying it was okay without going over the sheet first and knowing what I was getting myself into. The player in question was very used to playing in a battle-oriented campaign, so my answer to that was to put him into situations where his skills and abilities were next to useless, as he was not used to solving problems outside of hacking and slashing.

[Nightmask]

My Pet Peeve...

...bringing in Non-Rifts O.C.C.s (I understand some people having only a limited amount of resources to work with...but I'm willing to lend my collection). ESPECIALLY HU characters.

Now, I try to be flexible as a GM...I can roll with the punches and create content "on-the-fly", but personally its "gloves-off" once I hear you're "trying' to bring in your 11th level Elven, Warrior from PFRPG. I'll rant to you for a few minutes (in private if possible) about how that is a pet-peeve of mine.

Why such animosity towards Heroes Unlimited characters? Not every mutant is a power-house and certainly most of the classes are SDC/HP creatures and comparable to the characters you find in the Rifts books. The nature of Rifts is explicitly rooted in the setting being a melting pot of characters from every setting due to the random nature of rifts causing things from every setting to occasionally get stuck there.

Because in many of our experiences, those people do not want the low power options. They want the powers that give them MDC on cyborg levels and energy expulsions that increase over levels. If they chose low powered options then they seem not be be on par with the OCC/RCC skills/abilities. In that case I would prefer them to choose a vagabond/city rat/scholar or even man at arms type and tack on a power.

Okay, and if you allow cyborgs into your game or other MDC creatures what exactly is wrong with an MDC super-human from Heroes Unlimited? If you're allowing these other MDC things why treat this MDC thing as being so horribly wrong when it's comparable to the rest? Nearly all energy expulsions grow in power over levels, but not that fast and I don't think a game tends to run long enough for such a character to exceed or even equal some of the commonly available weapons, so again why specifically complain about the HU superhuman? He's not equipped with anything that's excessive compared to what's available to the rest of the group.

It also seems contrary to then complain if they choose less-powerful options as being somehow inferior to locals and that they should just take a local and give it a power. It seems as if you've just got issues with Heroes Unlimited and choose whatever stance is negative towards it to insist that only a Rifts OCC is 'good enough'. If they want something tough like the local cyborg might be or hatchling dragon you complain about them wanting something 'too powerful' but if they go with something else like a Hunter/Vigilante or Stage Magician they're not 'too weak and inferior' to be acceptable. Which is unfortunate for any players that could have had a good time and made things fun for everyone but couldn't because they weren't allowed the option to play the HU character they wanted and had to play yet another Rifts OCC.

[ZorValachan]

My Pet Peeve...

...bringing in Non-Rifts O.C.C.s (I understand some people having only a limited amount of resources to work with...but I'm willing to lend my collection). ESPECIALLY HU characters.

Now, I try to be flexible as a GM...I can roll with the punches and create content "on-the-fly", but personally its "gloves-off" once I hear you're "trying' to bring in your 11th level Elven, Warrior from PFRPG. I'll rant to you for a few minutes (in private if possible) about how that is a pet-peeve of mine.

Why such animosity towards Heroes Unlimited characters? Not every mutant is a power-house and certainly most of the classes are SDC/HP creatures and comparable to the characters you find in the Rifts books. The nature of Rifts is explicitly rooted in the setting being a melting pot of characters from every setting due to the random nature of rifts causing things from every setting to occasionally get stuck there.

Because in many of our experiences, those people do not want the low power options. They want the powers that give them MDC on cyborg levels and energy expulsions that increase over levels. If they chose low powered options then they seem not be be on par with the OCC/RCC skills/abilities. In that case I would prefer them to choose a vagabond/city rat/scholar or even man at arms type and tack on a power.

Okay, and if you allow cyborgs into your game or other MDC creatures what exactly is wrong with an MDC super-human from Heroes Unlimited? If you're allowing these other MDC things why treat this MDC thing as being so horribly wrong when it's comparable to the rest? Nearly all energy expulsions grow in power over levels, but not that fast and I don't think a game tends to run long enough for such a character to exceed or even equal some of the commonly available weapons, so again why specifically complain about the HU superhuman? He's not equipped with anything that's excessive compared to what's available to the rest of the group.

It also seems contrary to then complain if they choose less-powerful options as being somehow inferior to locals and that they should just take a local and give it a power. It seems as if you've just got issues with Heroes Unlimited and choose whatever stance is negative towards it to insist that only a Rifts OCC is 'good enough'. If they want something tough like the local cyborg might be or hatchling dragon you complain about them wanting something 'too powerful' but if they go with something else like a Hunter/Vigilante or Stage Magician they're not 'too weak and inferior' to be acceptable. Which is unfortunate for any players that could have had a good time and made things fun for everyone but couldn't because they weren't allowed the option to play the HU character they wanted and had to play yet another Rifts OCC.

Calm down. You asked a question. I answered it. No need to attack me (red) You asked a general question of "why so much anomosity of HU characters in Rifts?" I answered in General terms on what people like me experienced. I also never said anywhere that only a rifts OCC is 'good enough'. I like HU very much. Had 4-5 awesome character concepts in about 3 campaigns.

Now I will be specific. I had 2 failed campaigns in which HU characters were the main problem (not the only one, but the main one).

First time was a all megaversal system up to the time that Vampire Kingdoms was first released. The Invulnerable guy had more MDC than a Alpha fighter and he could heal it for 'free' -by resting. Invulnerable to everything except magic/psionics. Which meant that either - he wasn't affected by anything or I had to target him specifically with magic/psionics, which can seem like the GM is cheating, when in every battle a mage/psychic targets that character. I do find this specific problem with HU games too.

Second was a HU game that went to Rifts. Most things were fine in HU, but on going to Rifts, the players could choose to keep their HU characters or get Rifts ones. Conversion book 1 (again this campaign was early Rifts, after Atlantis, but before England) transfered the HU characters with invulnerability and alter phsycial structures to be above anything in power in the published books at that time including Undead Slayer and Dragon hatchling.

These two -early- experiences soured me to HU character in Rifts. I am sure many people can play and GM them just fine. Just my choice is to not allow it. My one successful Rifts game did not allow dragons or cyborgs either. I did allow a Glitterboy after having a serious talk with the player on not being able to spend 24/7 in the suit as well as the need to find specific GB ammo and repairs would be standard MDC unless he could find rare facilities that could do the 'glitter MDC alloy'. It was a 'test the waters' game to start to figure out how to have full blown Rifts (or possible megaversal) games. I am still in that experimenting phase. I am sure had I the maturity/experience back then on what I do now, I could have made those games decent and not complete failures. But my history is tainted and biased. And those bad past experiences without any good ones skew my view.

Lastly, the players who want the mega-duperman, in my experience (which can be competely different than anyone else's) choose powers that are mega-duper. And while I might have miswrote/mispoke about tacking a power on to a rifts class, it was that a non mega-duperman HU character ported into Rifts would not have some skills/knowledge/experience that could get him killed off easily in the Rifts world.

Extreme-silly but true examples from that 2nd game up there 2 of the players' characters died in the first game, after chosing to keep their heroes. Robot armor from HU thought he is just as awesome there as the HU world, then a guy with a wilk's killed him, because the hero wouldn't back down.
The mystically bestowed hero with magic: "I don't need armor. I am the Great Mystico and will cast my Armor of Ithan... What 180 SDC doesn't become 180 MDC here?"

Again, not to be argumentative, but just answering your questions. How the high-powered were too high-powered and low powered were to lowe powered in my specific games/experience.

[Nightmask]

Why such animosity towards Heroes Unlimited characters? Not every mutant is a power-house and certainly most of the classes are SDC/HP creatures and comparable to the characters you find in the Rifts books. The nature of Rifts is explicitly rooted in the setting being a melting pot of characters from every setting due to the random nature of rifts causing things from every setting to occasionally get stuck there.

Because in many of our experiences, those people do not want the low power options. They want the powers that give them MDC on cyborg levels and energy expulsions that increase over levels. If they chose low powered options then they seem not be be on par with the OCC/RCC skills/abilities. In that case I would prefer them to choose a vagabond/city rat/scholar or even man at arms type and tack on a power.

Okay, and if you allow cyborgs into your game or other MDC creatures what exactly is wrong with an MDC super-human from Heroes Unlimited? If you're allowing these other MDC things why treat this MDC thing as being so horribly wrong when it's comparable to the rest? Nearly all energy expulsions grow in power over levels, but not that fast and I don't think a game tends to run long enough for such a character to exceed or even equal some of the commonly available weapons, so again why specifically complain about the HU superhuman? He's not equipped with anything that's excessive compared to what's available to the rest of the group.

It also seems contrary to then complain if they choose less-powerful options as being somehow inferior to locals and that they should just take a local and give it a power. It seems as if you've just got issues with Heroes Unlimited and choose whatever stance is negative towards it to insist that only a Rifts OCC is 'good enough'. If they want something tough like the local cyborg might be or hatchling dragon you complain about them wanting something 'too powerful' but if they go with something else like a Hunter/Vigilante or Stage Magician they're not 'too weak and inferior' to be acceptable. Which is unfortunate for any players that could have had a good time and made things fun for everyone but couldn't because they weren't allowed the option to play the HU character they wanted and had to play yet another Rifts OCC.

Calm down. You asked a question. I answered it. No need to attack me (red) You asked a general question of "why so much anomosity of HU characters in Rifts?" I answered in General terms on what people like me experienced. I also never said anywhere that only a rifts OCC is 'good enough'. I like HU very much. Had 4-5 awesome character concepts in about 3 campaigns.

You're reading WAY too much into my post and being way too touchy if you think that's an attack. Saying it seems like you've got issues with HU is just a general impression regarding your post, there is nothing about that one should derive the impression it was an attack or make the 'calm down' comment as there wasn't anything not calm about it.

[Alrik Vas]

My problem is with GM's who are too controlling. Having been one when i was a kid, i know how problematic that can be. I had great campaign ideas but they were constantly run into the ground by conflicts with my players because they didn't think i was being fair or even allowing them to have a real impact on the game other than baring witness to how awesome my NPC's were.

They were right too! partially because i was always running the game i wanted to play in, partially because they were immensely argumentative jerkfaces (we're all really old friends ).

Now when i see a GM who acts the way i used to, i generally don't even play the game past an hour.

[SmilingJack]

OK you want a pet peeve?

How about the loser with no life who is only there to vent their frustrations because they have a miserable existence and instead of role playing, throw the game completely and turn it into their own personal exploit of repressed homoerotic tendencies

My best example is my 40 yr old cousin finding the first person in a town attacking that person, cutting off the NPC's penis and putting it in the players mouth,

Oh yeah and make sure you do this for a whole 3yrs straight

Or how about captain tries to tell you how to gm by TELLING YOU THE GM, which character classes should be allowed, how many credits/gold they should get, how much damage a weapon they find should do,

Best example:

My eldest brother telling me what to do every 5 minutes or arguing why when he opens a chest it should contain a plasma cannon not a laser pistol or that his force field generator has too few MDC to be starting out with


My middle brother and I refuse to play with either of these two douches

It's unacceptable and ruins the fun of a RPG

Yes I'm totally pet peeved

[Nightmask]

OK you want a pet peeve?

How about the loser with no life who is only there to vent their frustrations because they have a miserable existence and instead of role playing, throw the game completely and turn it into their own personal exploit of repressed homoerotic tendencies

My best example is my 40 yr old cousin finding the first person in a town attacking that person, cutting off the NPC's ***** and putting it in the players mouth,

Oh yeah and make sure you do this for a whole 3yrs straight

Yes that's definitely not a fun environment, not without your entire group being off in the head like that (like the misogynistic group in Knights of the Dinner Table who reworked a game module setting with horribly sexist anti-female behavior even as they were trying to con a female player into staying with them at least long enough to try and win a convention tourney). The game table is not the place to be working out those kind of issues.

[Nekira Sudacne]

OK you want a pet peeve?

How about the loser with no life who is only there to vent their frustrations because they have a miserable existence and instead of role playing, throw the game completely and turn it into their own personal exploit of repressed homoerotic tendencies

My best example is my 40 yr old cousin finding the first person in a town attacking that person, cutting off the NPC's ***** and putting it in the players mouth,

Oh yeah and make sure you do this for a whole 3yrs straight

Or how about captain tries to tell you how to gm by TELLING YOU THE GM, which character classes should be allowed, how many credits/gold they should get, how much damage a weapon they find should do,

Best example:

My eldest brother telling me what to do every 5 minutes or arguing why when he opens a chest it should contain a plasma cannon not a laser pistol or that his force field generator has too few MDC to be starting out with


My middle brother and I refuse to play with either of these two douches

It's unacceptable and ruins the fun of a RPG

Yes I'm totally pet peeved

I'm not sure those qualify as a pet peeve. a pet peeve is a quirk that's irritating to you in particular even though most people wouldn't care. I daresay ALL GM's find both types of player unbearable. that's not a "pet" peeve, that's a full blown general peeve

[Snake Eyes]

My biggest pet peeve is now i hve a couple players fudging their dice rolls just so they have a bad outcome

[Damian Magecraft]

My biggest pet peeve is now i hve a couple players fudging their dice rolls just so they have a bad outcome

all the time? or only when it would make the story more interesting?