A new energy system for magic in Rifts

[Colt47]

I was thinking about all the threads involving magic and how it is weaker than technology and came up with an interesting idea for how to deal with the situation. If magic is powerful because it has basically unlimited ammo, why bother with PPE? Just make the limit based on a per round basis instead. Just have the maximum amount of spells cast per melee based on the PE score of the wizard in question and the spell level.

IE: A LLW has a PE of 13, so he could cast a total number of spells equal to the sum of the spell levels of each spell cast, up to a total of 13+character level+(some constant number). The idea is a bit rough at the moment, but it seems like a better idea than having a boom/bust system based on being around a Leyline or nexus.

[Cinos]

It's really not more complicated, it's also less paper work. It's not a bad idea, but the big problem is there are a lot of bigger non-combat spells with massively restricted P.P.E costs that are suddenly free. These would need to be re balanced in some way (restricted access, new costs, etc). In addition, things like Charm which are being cast perhaps once per minute are not unlimited at all times, these would also need to be re-thought.

[Icefalcon]

I don't think magic is argued as bein weaker than technology because of the PPE cost. I think it is because a laser rifle can cause more damage than a 10th level spell. Most of what I have read on the forums has more to do with damages and such as opposed to the cost of the spell.

[Colt47]

I was thinking about all the threads involving magic and how it is weaker than technology and came up with an interesting idea for how to deal with the situation. If magic is powerful because it has basically unlimited ammo, why bother with PPE? Just make the limit based on a per round basis instead. Just have the maximum amount of spells cast per melee based on the PE score of the wizard in question and the spell level.

IE: A LLW has a PE of 13, so he could cast a total number of spells equal to the sum of the spell levels of each spell cast, up to a total of 13+character level+(some constant number). The idea is a bit rough at the moment, but it seems like a better idea than having a boom/bust system based on being around a Leyline or nexus.

I don't think this is a bad idea, but....

The first problem I see is how it breaks down fractionally per point of PPE, or that it is easyier the way it is... and your idea would in my mind complicate things-

Care to elaberate?

Yeah, that's the one part of the idea I'm still kind of working on. The issue is mostly with the non-combat related spells such as creating Rifts and magic item production. Right now the thought is to have two different spell lists: One that works with this per melee system and another that handles out of combat magic such as Rituals and Rifting. It's actually a lot simpler than the PPE system in execution since the player no longer has to keep track of spell costs. Also, the cast time for all spells in combat, regardless of level, are going to be the same.

I don't think magic is argued as bein weaker than technology because of the PPE cost. I think it is because a laser rifle can cause more damage than a 10th level spell. Most of what I have read on the forums has more to do with damages and such as opposed to the cost of the spell.

Yeah, that's another problem.

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't think magic is argued as bein weaker than technology because of the PPE cost. I think it is because a laser rifle can cause more damage than a 10th level spell. Most of what I have read on the forums has more to do with damages and such as opposed to the cost of the spell.

An NG-P7 fires a particle beam that inflicts 1d4x10 MD.
The spell Sub-Particle Acceleration inflicts 1d6x10 MD, +1 MD per level. At 10th level, this spell is roughly 2x more damaging than the tech rifle.
Call Lightning inflicts 10d6 MD at 10th level, about 50% more powerful than the NG-P7.

Or you just use Magic Net to drop 1d4 foes where they stand, without having to inflict any damage at all.

It's not that magic is more powerful or less powerful than tech, it's just different.
The people who say that tech is better aren't looking at the big picture, just like the people who say that magic is better aren't looking at the big picture.

[Icefalcon]

I don't think magic is argued as bein weaker than technology because of the PPE cost. I think it is because a laser rifle can cause more damage than a 10th level spell. Most of what I have read on the forums has more to do with damages and such as opposed to the cost of the spell.

An NG-P7 fires a particle beam that inflicts 1d4x10 MD.
The spell Sub-Particle Acceleration inflicts 1d6x10 MD, +1 MD per level. At 10th level, this spell is roughly 2x more damaging than the tech rifle.
Call Lightning inflicts 10d6 MD at 10th level, about 50% more powerful than the NG-P7.

Or you just use Magic Net to drop 1d4 foes where they stand, without having to inflict any damage at all.

It's not that magic is more powerful or less powerful than tech, it's just different.
The people who say that tech is better aren't looking at the big picture, just like the people who say that magic is better aren't looking at the big picture.

I stand corrected.

[Icefalcon]

Have two lists, Combat Magic and Ritual Magic.
Combat magic is meant to be cast faster, in combat, so PPE costs should be similar across the board. These should be given a cost of attacks/actions to cast in order to differentiate their difficulty. Optionally you can choose to put more PPE into the spell to increase damage, duration, ect. This may also cost an extra attack.
Ritual magic takes longer, to prep and cast, usually costing more PPE, but for grander results. This should be the Palladium default method of casting.

Just some quick ideas for you.

I believe the original poster was trying to get away from the PPE system, not make it more complicated.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Just make the limit based on a per round basis instead. Just have the maximum amount of spells cast per melee based on the PE score of the wizard in question and the spell level.

The Old formate for PB magic was a Spells per Day limit. the PPE format is better.

No, magic is not "Unlimited Ammo".

[Colt47]

Well, the idea so far seems to work better with some spells than others. Namely, it works well with spells that are fire and forget like fire bolt, but spells with durations have to be rebalanced to work right (Yeah, it's something that is noticeable before even play testing the idea, but it's still note worthy). Also have to work on the reserve as my original thought of using PE + 10 + Spell level ended up giving too much lee way at the low levels.

[Glistam]

Try this: a number of spell levels cast "for free," per melee, equal to the character level, and only if the character still has the P.P.E. available to cast it (even though it isn't expended). Combined/total P.P.E. cost per melee for these "free" spells cannot exceed the character's P.E. score, + 2 per level. This only works for invocations (not rituals) with a duration of "instant." Additional spells per melee cost P.P.E. as normal.

[Colt47]

Try this: a number of spell levels cast "for free," per melee, equal to the character level, and only if the character still has the P.P.E. available to cast it (even though it isn't expended). Combined/total P.P.E. cost per melee for these "free" spells cannot exceed the character's P.E. score, + 2 per level. This only works for invocations (not rituals) with a duration of "instant." Additional spells per melee cost P.P.E. as normal.

I'll give it a shot. Actually, I think this is giving me an idea for a magic / psionics system overhaul.

[Devjannz]

Personally I really like the PPE Channeling rules that were presented in Rifter 21. I really felt that those rules made spell casters much more effective.

[drewkitty ~..~]

level 5 edit
I hate topic necromancy.

[Zamion138]

Maybe im miss understanding the first poster but with your formula a lv1 temporal warrior human, with a pe of 30 could cast anahilate twice a melle round? Every melle round?
Im sorry if im miss under standing what you are purposing.
If that is what your saying, im not for it.
Also do you consider spells of legend lv16 or some other level cap?