Question Regarding "Magic Fire"

[Snake Eyes]

I'm running a vampire hunter campaign next week and i need a clarification on what exactly Magic Fire is.

Would these spells be considered 'magic fire' or are these just M.D.C. fire created through magic
Fireblast
Fire Bolt
Fire Ball

[Killer Cyborg]

I'm running a vampire hunter campaign next week and i need a clarification on what exactly Magic Fire is.

Would these spells be considered 'magic fire' or are these just M.D.C. fire created through magic
Fireblast
Fire Bolt
Fire Ball

They're magic fire.
We know this, because actual fire isn't powerful enough to inflict mega-damage.
Also, they're spells. Spells are magic.

[Snake Eyes]

Thanks Killer Cyborg....

Now my next question, does a TW flaming sword work on the same principle, in that it will hurt vampires? (magic fire does half damage)

[Killer Cyborg]

Thanks Killer Cyborg....

Now my next question, does a TW flaming sword work on the same principle, in that it will hurt vampires? (magic fire does half damage)

Yes.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I would change the wording to Mystical Fire, cause that would include the Pyrokinisis fire into the "approved list". Even if it mostly "understood" that Psi-powers are included when things say they are only vulnerable to magic.

[Snake Eyes]

Thanks guys, thats all the information i needed

One of my players ask me about the TW flaming sword, so now i can tell him that the sword will work, though he's gonna be real surprised that it will only do half damage to vampires (not gonna tell him)

[Grand Paladin]

How about the Circle of Flame spell? It's a magic spell, but it's damage level is S.D.C. only. Would this be considered harmful to vampires? By the description stated above it'd seem so.

[Damian Magecraft]

How about the Circle of Flame spell? It's a magic spell, but it's damage level is S.D.C. only. Would this be considered harmful to vampires? By the description stated above it'd seem so.

yes

[The Beast]

Would these spells be considered 'magic fire' or are these just M.D.C. fire created through magic

Anything created by magic is magic.

Ok, I cast Ignite Fire to start a coal seam fire. 40 years later it is still burning. Is it a magical fire?

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip..

I think that one is up for debate. My understanding is that Vampires are immune to a Psychic's Pyrokenesis and a Native American's Spirit Fire. ...snip

Would you happen to know where to find these?

[Killer Cyborg]

Would these spells be considered 'magic fire' or are these just M.D.C. fire created through magic

Anything created by magic is magic.

Ok, I cast Ignite Fire to start a coal seam fire. 40 years later it is still burning. Is it a magical fire?

Could you possibly be a little more absurd?

Absurdity tends to highlight the errors in absolute statements.

I'd say that with Ignite Fire, the fire itself probably wouldn't be magical, even in the early years.
The magic of that particular spell causes something non-magical to ignite, as opposed to creating magical fire that just exists from nowhere.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. The following post will address two topics (each separated by different quotes).

snip..

I think that one is up for debate. My understanding is that Vampires are immune to a Psychic's Pyrokenesis and a Native American's Spirit Fire. ...snip

Would you happen to know where to find these?

I can't speak for the Native American's Spirit Fire but as for the other ...

RWB1: Vampire Kingdoms (original), page 33 mentions how Magic Energy (including, but not limited to, Fire Ball) deals half damage. Page 34 mentions how they're immune to Pyrokinesis.
RWB1: Vampire Kingdoms; Revised, page 21 (in the Limited Vulnerability section) and page 75 mention magic fire (as well as other forms of magic energy) dealing damage. Page 77 mentions them being immune to Pryokinesis.

Can you site any examples where psionics are considered magical?

How about the Circle of Flame spell? It's a magic spell, but it's damage level is S.D.C. only. Would this be considered harmful to vampires? By the description stated above it'd seem so.

yes

Actually, RWB1: Vampire Kingdoms says S.D.C. magic does NO damage.

Original, page 33. Second column, under "Mega-damage energy" and above "Circles of protection."
Revised, page 75. Second column, near the bottom (under "Mega-Damage magic energy" and above" "Blind and Mute").

Anyways, that's all for now. Hope some of that helps. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Snake Eyes]

So, its not just the magic fire that will hurt vampires, any magic energy blast will harm them?

[Killer Cyborg]

So, its not just the magic fire that will hurt vampires, any magic energy blast will harm them?

As long as it's Mega-Damage magic energy, yes.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. Just for added clarity (since this is the G.M. Forum and not the Rifts specific forum), we only know that it needs to be Mega-Damage magic energy in Rifts. The rules in other settings differ. I can only think of two other settings that stat out Vampires, that's Palladium Fantasy and Nightspawn/bane.

In Palladium Fantasy (an all S.D.C. setting), magic energy does full damage to vampires (which is more powerful than the half damage from Rifts). Found in PF Book 8: Western Empire, page 216.

In Nightspawn/bane (another all S.D.C. setting), spell magic does half damage (though all that spell magic will be S.D., of course). Found on page 187 (the word "magic" is on page 186, but the rest of it is on 187) of the main book.

Anyways, just wanted to add a few additional bits of information into the subject. So it looks like either magic is the most powerful in the PF setting (not likely), or Vampires are just more powerful in Rifts (which would seem to make some sense due to the magic rich environment, quite possibly having a beefing up effect on Vamps as it does the rest of magic). Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Snake Eyes]

So, its not just the magic fire that will hurt vampires, any magic energy blast will harm them?

As long as it's Mega-Damage magic energy, yes.

Thank you

@Prysus.....Thanks for that info. Though i probably should have specified that i was running Rifts

[flatline]

So, its not just the magic fire that will hurt vampires, any magic energy blast will harm them?

As long as it's Mega-Damage magic energy, yes.

So if I have SDC magic fire, it's no good against Vampires?

That seems strange since Vampires aren't MD creatures.

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

So, its not just the magic fire that will hurt vampires, any magic energy blast will harm them?

As long as it's Mega-Damage magic energy, yes.

So if I have SDC magic fire, it's no good against Vampires?

That seems strange since Vampires aren't MD creatures.

--flatline

Agreed.

[Prysus]

So if I have SDC magic fire, it's no good against Vampires?

Greetings and Salutations. I'll answer according to Rifts (as that's about the only setting where the term "SDC magic fire" has any meaning), and correct that it's no good against Vampires.

That seems strange since Vampires aren't MD creatures.

--flatline

Mmm ... I don't know if it's that strange really. I'll explain why I don't think it's that strange.

1: Vampires aren't M.D. creatures, but they do possess "Limited Invulnerability."
2: Vampires aren't vulnerable to fire in the first place (only magic energy, which may happen to be fire).
3: M.D. magic energy doesn't inflict M.D.C. to a Vampire, but converted to Hit Point damage (and then halved).

Really what these means is that Vampires are highly resistant to magic energy, and kind of have a Damage Reduction. All magic energy that hits them (while on Rifts Earth) is divided by 100 (actually, since it's halved, I guess divided by 200). So that means even 6D6 S.D.C., even if doing maximum damage output, is still less than 1 point of damage. A paper cut would probably hurt worse.

This also helps to serve as a game mechanics issue. If S.D.C. fire did standard (or even half) damage, we'd get the (I'd say even stranger) issue of a 6D6 S.D.C. magic spell doing more damage than the 2D6 M.D. magic spell. Would this make more sense to you? I can't imagine how it would. Now, if such an illogical issue comes up with a different vulnerability, that's an issue with said vulnerability and not with magic (at least in my opinion).

If it makes you feel any better, if you staked a vampire and tried to burn its head with that S.D.C. fire magic, you'd probably succeed (since vampires are then vulnerable to fire, regardless if it's magic or not).

Now, if you have some logic that suggests S.D.C. magic energy should be more powerful than M.D.C. magic energy, I'm willing to listen. Anyways, I think that's all for now. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[drewkitty ~..~]

[justify]Greetings and Salutations. The following post will address two topics (each separated by different quotes).

snip..

I think that one is up for debate. My understanding is that Vampires are immune to a Psychic's Pyrokenesis and a Native American's Spirit Fire. ...snip

Would you happen to know where to find these?

I can't speak for the Native American's Spirit Fire but as for the other ...

RWB1: Vampire Kingdoms (original), page 33 mentions how Magic Energy (including, but not limited to, Fire Ball) deals half damage. Page 34 mentions how they're immune to Pyrokinesis.
RWB1: Vampire Kingdoms; Revised, page 21 (in the Limited Vulnerability section) and page 75 mention magic fire (as well as other forms of magic energy) dealing damage. Page 77 mentions them being immune to Pryokinesis.

thank you

[Damian Magecraft]

Ignite Fire: The flame create by the spell is magical in nature, but after that, obviously the resulting fire is not magical. So, once the spell is over (1-2 seconds) the flame is normal.

This is common sense.

Not really common sense if you are the only one to see it that way

[Goliath Strongarm]

Ignite Fire: The flame create by the spell is magical in nature, but after that, obviously the resulting fire is not magical. So, once the spell is over (1-2 seconds) the flame is normal.

This is common sense.

Not really common sense if you are the only one to see it that way

He's far from the only one. In fact, I've never seen it handled any other way. And I've dealt with a lot of groups over the years...

[NMI]

Topic locked at request of topic starter.