Your least favorite Rifts book

[cyberdon]

This doesn't have to reflect upon the actual use or general value of the book, rather, this' a question regarding purely personal preference.

K -me first.

I can honestly say that Atlantis is my least favorite. It just seems quirky to me somehow, and doesn't fit the mood of the post-apocalyptic style I use when GMing.

A great book liked by many, but not one for me.

[DhAkael]

All the 'Siege of Tolkeen' books aside from the Cyberknights-centric one.
All the rest were a waste of perfectly good ink and dead tree.

[wyrmraker]

The least favorite? Wow, that's kind of a toss-up. I hated the Tolkeen Wars books, detested most of the Demon Wars mega-arc, and thought that England and Africa sucked because of the sheer lack of detail...
I know! Mutants in Orbit was terrible because it tried to cross two different gaming genres with one book, and failed horribly.

[Eashamahel]

hehe I loved England and Africa.

Least favourite would probably be Free Quebec. It just somehow missed the mark for me. That probably has a lot to do with the Glitter Girl, but somehow very little of it appealed to me, in concept or presentation.

[MaxxSterling]

Fleets of the Three Galaxies.

However, there are many other books that I view as mostly worthless. Most are mentioned above, save Atlantis.

[flatline]

At this point, RUE is my least favorite.

Some rules were improved, but nothing that I would use in place of existing house rules. OCCs were updated and, for the most part, this was not a good thing. But mostly all the charm and fun tidbits from RMB seem to be missing.

--flatline

[Akashic Soldier]

Shemarrian Nation, it is the ONLY book that I felt was an absolute waste of my time. There was NOTHING in it that I found useful whatsoever. It made me sad.

[Eashamahel]

At this point, RUE is my least favorite.

Some rules were improved, but nothing that I would use in place of existing house rules. OCCs were updated and, for the most part, this was not a good thing. But mostly all the charm and fun tidbits from RMB seem to be missing.

--flatline

Oh, didn't really think the main book was in contention for some reason. In that case, my vote goes here with you. The Ultimate Edition seemed to embody everything Rifts had become, without any of the charm it or intrigue it used to have, it just seemed to fall really flat.

Shemarrian Nation, it is the ONLY book that I felt was an absolute waste of my time. There was NOTHING in it that I found useful whatsoever. It made me sad.

Yeah, I own that one, actually re-read it two nights ago for the heck of it. It's not bad, it's just very meh. The thing about it though is that it is not that big. It's a small book (about the sized sourcebooks and world books should probably be), and a sourcebook, that deals with one thing and one event, and if you have interest in that thing/event, then it's for you, if not, it's not a loss if you don't get it. I would prefer to see more Shemarrian Nation style books than another 240pg super book that's two years late and has the rules for Travelling Shows reprinted again.

[kaid]

Probably wormwood. Interesting concept but it really does not work well at all with the rest of the rifts universe. Cannot really take anything from it anywhere else not even most of the OCC without really gimping them. As its own stand alone world I can seem some point to it but it really does not play well with anything else in the rifts setting.

[Killer Cyborg]

Spirit West not only sucked in its own right, it actually dragged the rest of the game down a bit with it.

[cyberdon]

Spirit West not only sucked in its own right, it actually dragged the rest of the game down a bit with it.

Lol, I'm SO into this book. If I'd run New West without it, I don't think my game would've worked half as well. My players loved the various cultures, really had to work hard to deal with a masked shaman, and I had ENORMOUS fun operating two thunderbird robots as the Paiute -the guys who found the CS factory- attacked the party.

I dunno, I can see how other might not like it, but for me, it really got the flavour of the mostly unseen cultures in the New West as they struggled in a land gone insane.

Ooo, ooo and often when the dragon in the party was encountered, they would refer to him as 'son of Utekna', and attack! Awesome stuff.

[Akashic Soldier]

Lol, I'm SO into this book. If I'd run New West without it, I don't think my game would've worked half as well. My players loved the various cultures, really had to work hard to deal with a masked shaman, and I had ENORMOUS fun operating two thunderbird robots as the Paiute -the guys who found the CS factory- attacked the party.

I dunno, I can see how other might not like it, but for me, it really got the flavour of the mostly unseen cultures in the New West as they struggled in a land gone insane.

Ooo, ooo and often when the dragon in the party was encountered, they would refer to him as 'son of Utekna', and attack! Awesome stuff.

I loved the New West part of our game and just today I was wondering if I could convince the other players to go back to the New West after we finish in Atlantis and kick around for a bit because I got the nostalgia bug and I felt SURE there is a ton more adventures waiting out in those deserts.

[Killer Cyborg]

Spirit West not only sucked in its own right, it actually dragged the rest of the game down a bit with it.

Lol, I'm SO into this book. If I'd run New West without it, I don't think my game would've worked half as well.

I'd have included New West as well, but you asked for my least favorite book, not books.

My players loved the various cultures, really had to work hard to deal with a masked shaman, and I had ENORMOUS fun operating two thunderbird robots as the Paiute -the guys who found the CS factory- attacked the party.

I just found it fairly condescending and cliched, with Native Americans being portrayed more like 2D caricatures than anything else.
Examples:
In the real world, Native Americans as a rule didn't give a crap about "bloodline purity," but in Rifts, it's a big deal for using Native American magic.
In the real world, when the Native Americans were impressed with our blackpowder weapons, they begged, borrowed, and/or stole them from us, and they learned to use them, often quite well. What they most certainly did NOT do was to come up with a Blackpowder Bow, because they were more interested in utility than in adhering to cultural stereotypes about their weapons.

[Akashic Soldier]

In the real world, Native Americans as a rule didn't give a crap about "bloodline purity," but in Rifts, it's a big deal for using Native American magic.

The Native Americans wouldn't have cared if the spirits didn't tell them and make it that way. In ancient times, purity might not have been important, that doesn't mean it is now. Moreover, this ISN'T a stereotype/cliche because its something NEW about their culture.

In the real world, when the Native Americans were impressed with our blackpowder weapons, they begged, borrowed, and/or stole them from us, and they learned to use them, often quite well. What they most certainly did NOT do was to come up with a Blackpowder Bow, because they were more interested in utility than in adhering to cultural stereotypes about their weapons.

They also did not draw mystical power from their ancestry, cultural beliefs, or the spirits (who had to my understanding, long since left the world by that time).

Just admit the whole reason you don't like the book is because you don't like the laser bow.

Which is still awesome by the way. Super-science at its best. PEW PEW.

[flatline]

Probably wormwood. Interesting concept but it really does not work well at all with the rest of the rifts universe. Cannot really take anything from it anywhere else not even most of the OCC without really gimping them. As its own stand alone world I can seem some point to it but it really does not play well with anything else in the rifts setting.

Wormwood, is my favorite setting, but the book really does seem like it's only half complete. Clearly the idea was that material from RMB and other existing books would be used to fill in the gaps.

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

In the real world, Native Americans as a rule didn't give a crap about "bloodline purity," but in Rifts, it's a big deal for using Native American magic.

The Native Americans wouldn't have cared if the spirits didn't tell them and make it that way. In ancient times, purity might not have been important, that doesn't mean it is now.

And the reason why the spirits suddenly care about purity is....?

Moreover, this ISN'T a stereotype/cliche because its something NEW about their culture.

Agreed.
But it seems to be something added out of random assumption about their culture, and/or a desire to make sure that the Indians in Rifts were "true" Indians, instead of from any substantial reason.

In the real world, when the Native Americans were impressed with our blackpowder weapons, they begged, borrowed, and/or stole them from us, and they learned to use them, often quite well. What they most certainly did NOT do was to come up with a Blackpowder Bow, because they were more interested in utility than in adhering to cultural stereotypes about their weapons.

They also did not draw mystical power from their ancestry, cultural beliefs, or the spirits (who had to my understanding, long since left the world by that time).

That's getting into philosophy.

Just admit the whole reason you don't like the book is because you don't like the laser bow.

Nah, that's just a part of it.
Although it kind of IS the epitome of all the bad things in the book, rolled into one weapon.

Which is still awesome by the way. Super-science at its best. PEW PEW.

I don't think that generating enough energy to fill 50 car batteries from a single arm movement counts as "science."

[Akashic Soldier]

And the reason why the spirits suddenly care about purity is....?

Why do the spirits do ANYTHING? Isn't not knowing why the spirits do what the spirits do part of their culture?

That's getting into philosophy.

So are most of the rest of their new spiritual beliefs?

Although it kind of IS the epitome of all the bad things in the book, rolled into one weapon.

PEW PEW! *pretends to be shooting a laser bow*

I don't think that generating enough energy to fill 50 car batteries from a single arm movement counts as "science."

Just because its a science you don't understand doesn't mean its not science. Explain to me how throwing a switch can detonate an atom bomb? That is rhetorical. Same principle. Energy fields around the energy blasts. Plus, you've got to be pretty strong to move the internal mechanism or rely on the E-clip.

[Killer Cyborg]

Eh.
I've gone over all this before, and don't feel the need to threadjack just to rehash it.

[kaid]

Probably wormwood. Interesting concept but it really does not work well at all with the rest of the rifts universe. Cannot really take anything from it anywhere else not even most of the OCC without really gimping them. As its own stand alone world I can seem some point to it but it really does not play well with anything else in the rifts setting.

Wormwood, is my favorite setting, but the book really does seem like it's only half complete. Clearly the idea was that material from RMB and other existing books would be used to fill in the gaps.

--flatline

As its own setting like splicers I think I would have liked it but it never really clicked for me as part of the rifts setting. Honestly you look at something like splicers and most of that stuff can be ported pretty easily to earth if you wanted to. The whole specific exclusions of just about every interesting thing about wormwood from ever leaving it killed it for me.

[flatline]

Probably wormwood. Interesting concept but it really does not work well at all with the rest of the rifts universe. Cannot really take anything from it anywhere else not even most of the OCC without really gimping them. As its own stand alone world I can seem some point to it but it really does not play well with anything else in the rifts setting.

Wormwood, is my favorite setting, but the book really does seem like it's only half complete. Clearly the idea was that material from RMB and other existing books would be used to fill in the gaps.

--flatline

As its own setting like splicers I think I would have liked it but it never really clicked for me as part of the rifts setting. Honestly you look at something like splicers and most of that stuff can be ported pretty easily to earth if you wanted to. The whole specific exclusions of just about every interesting thing about wormwood from ever leaving it killed it for me.

I would suspect that that particular bit is quite commonly house-ruled.

--flatline

[DhAkael]

Probably wormwood. Interesting concept but it really does not work well at all with the rest of the rifts universe. Cannot really take anything from it anywhere else not even most of the OCC without really gimping them. As its own stand alone world I can seem some point to it but it really does not play well with anything else in the rifts setting.

Wormwood, is my favorite setting, but the book really does seem like it's only half complete. Clearly the idea was that material from RMB and other existing books would be used to fill in the gaps.

--flatline

As its own setting like splicers I think I would have liked it but it never really clicked for me as part of the rifts setting. Honestly you look at something like splicers and most of that stuff can be ported pretty easily to earth if you wanted to. The whole specific exclusions of just about every interesting thing about wormwood from ever leaving it killed it for me.

I ignore that completely ... roolz laweers be damned.

[kaid]

In the real world, Native Americans as a rule didn't give a crap about "bloodline purity," but in Rifts, it's a big deal for using Native American magic.

The Native Americans wouldn't have cared if the spirits didn't tell them and make it that way. In ancient times, purity might not have been important, that doesn't mean it is now.

And the reason why the spirits suddenly care about purity is....?

Moreover, this ISN'T a stereotype/cliche because its something NEW about their culture.

Agreed.
But it seems to be something added out of random assumption about their culture, and/or a desire to make sure that the Indians in Rifts were "true" Indians, instead of from any substantial reason.

In the real world, when the Native Americans were impressed with our blackpowder weapons, they begged, borrowed, and/or stole them from us, and they learned to use them, often quite well. What they most certainly did NOT do was to come up with a Blackpowder Bow, because they were more interested in utility than in adhering to cultural stereotypes about their weapons.

They also did not draw mystical power from their ancestry, cultural beliefs, or the spirits (who had to my understanding, long since left the world by that time).

That's getting into philosophy.

Just admit the whole reason you don't like the book is because you don't like the laser bow.

Nah, that's just a part of it.
Although it kind of IS the epitome of all the bad things in the book, rolled into one weapon.

Which is still awesome by the way. Super-science at its best. PEW PEW.

I don't think that generating enough energy to fill 50 car batteries from a single arm movement counts as "science."

I actually really like spirit west but I don't think I would ever super enforce the item restrictions as listed in the book. I understand where they are going with it but not being able to use tech items is fine but also eliminating techno wizard stuff was a bit to far for me. There are a fair amount of fetishes but there would need to be a lot more and a lot more variety of them to accept the full restrictions as listed in the book.

If you allow techno wizard/eco wizard and biomancer stuff on top of the fetishes as allowed I think they would be fine. Otherwise I feel they are taking way to many penalties and are not getting enough back to offset it. This is especially true for things like tribal warriors. Most of the other OCC can get by with what fetishes they have pretty well but the tribal warriors are really gimpy using only their listed fetish availability.

Funny thing is if you look at the inuit shaman also a native american shaman they can use whatever tech stuff they want in addition to their more spirit powers.

[kaid]

Probably wormwood. Interesting concept but it really does not work well at all with the rest of the rifts universe. Cannot really take anything from it anywhere else not even most of the OCC without really gimping them. As its own stand alone world I can seem some point to it but it really does not play well with anything else in the rifts setting.

Wormwood, is my favorite setting, but the book really does seem like it's only half complete. Clearly the idea was that material from RMB and other existing books would be used to fill in the gaps.

--flatline

As its own setting like splicers I think I would have liked it but it never really clicked for me as part of the rifts setting. Honestly you look at something like splicers and most of that stuff can be ported pretty easily to earth if you wanted to. The whole specific exclusions of just about every interesting thing about wormwood from ever leaving it killed it for me.

I ignore that completely ... roolz laweers be damned.

Ya pretty much and same with spirit west throw out or heavily modify the whole traditionalist/renegade item usage restrictions and the classes there are all really darn good.

[Snow Hawk]

Vampire Kingdoms. I just like my vampires more traditional that's all

[Snow Hawk]

Vampire Kingdoms. I just like my vampires more traditional that's all

I have to ask what you mean by more traditional. One of the reasons I like VK is that the vampires are actually monsters as they should be.

I like my vampires more like what White Wolf did with them.

[Xanador]

Splynn Dimensional Market- I don't have a clue why I even picked it up. On a side note several of the books published around that time were less than stellar.

[Akashic Soldier]

Splynn Dimensional Market- I don't have a clue why I even picked it up. On a side note several of the books published around that time were less than stellar.

You didnt like those big slave guys? I thought that was a great concept/story!

[Looonatic]

Vampire Kingdoms. I just like my vampires more traditional that's all

I have to ask what you mean by more traditional. One of the reasons I like VK is that the vampires are actually monsters as they should be.

I like my vampires more like what White Wolf did with them.

White Wolf designed playable vampires. Rifts vampires are primarily horrible monsters; a plague that has to be kept in check or it will eradicate humanity.

[Killer Cyborg]

Vampire Kingdoms. I just like my vampires more traditional that's all

I have to ask what you mean by more traditional. One of the reasons I like VK is that the vampires are actually monsters as they should be.

I like my vampires more like what White Wolf did with them.

White Wolf designed playable vampires. Rifts vampires are primarily horrible monsters; a plague that has to be kept in check or it will eradicate humanity.

In short, they're vampires.

[cyberdon]

On the Spirit West thing, for me, I enjoyed the fact that with the coming of the rifts you had native americans either adapting to the tech of the time, or turning to more ancient spiritual beliefs. Like taking comfort in the familiar, or recreating themselves. I agree -very stereotypy, but it worked pour moi, and certainly fit in with New West.

And laser bows? Lol, I'd so be into 'em.

[Eashamahel]

You might have to explain what you are aiming for with 'traditional' vampires. The White Wolf WoD style vampires, with an established culture, clans, bloodlines, ect? If so, that's fine, but I don't think super socially evolved and extremely self controlled vampires were the historical norm.

I never really liked spirit west, but a big part of that is because, many moons ago, our group played games out there and ran into native tribes. They battled Simvan for land, traded with Psi-Stalkers, and used what tech they could find and trade for. Shaman's were Mystics, and they were able to make Amulets (elder ones at least) which any Shaman of their tribe could re-fill, as well as use their ancient lore to hunt and slay monsters, which they often used. We had demon bone arrows and knives that inflicted MD to demons and creatures of magic, huge packs of plains dinosaurs (Jurrasic Park style, back when they had Dino stats in the main rulebook) they followed like bison of old, Bursters and such were seen as blessed by the spirits and warriors who protected the tribe, learned mystic arts were did not exist for them, most warriors were the equivalent of Wilderness Scouts, ect. Mainly, we had an established view of the area, it was low tech and simple, it worked, and was a Rifts version of pre and just post European settlement. Oh, and the 'Natives' were a combination of races, as they had interbred with all the other survivors of the area over the years. When the book came out with super Psi-Warriors with Psi-Tomahawks and laser bows (erg...), we couldn't really deny that Rifts had finally moved completely away from 'post apocalypse' and into 'super-hero world'.

[Warmaster40k]

I found Austrialia 2 lacking, which is a shame since I loved Austrailia 1 so much. On spirit west, eh some I take some I get a good chuckle, but one thing is sure, I found the Traditionalists far too pretentious and just refusing to change with the times. But I still liked it, I just make them far less @#$& Whitey, and his toys.

[tundro]

I know Aliens Unlimited isn't a Rifts book, but I was disappointed with that one. My expectations were more like a D-Bee's of N. America, but it turned out to be "Here's how you make a lizard based alien, and here's how you make a bird based alien..."and so on and so forth. It's still a useful book, but I had a totally different picture of what I thought it was compared to what it really was. Just my expectations not being met.

[DhAkael]

I know Aliens Unlimited isn't a Rifts book, but I was disappointed with that one. My expectations were more like a D-Bee's of N. America, but it turned out to be "Here's how you make a lizard based alien, and here's how you make a bird based alien..."and so on and so forth. It's still a useful book, but I had a totally different picture of what I thought it was compared to what it really was. Just my expectations not being met.

Too many "people with animal head-masks" re; Star-Trek'ish stuff.
I really had hoped for some ALIEN aliens...like what the Stardrive / Alternity game line had.

[tundro]

I know Aliens Unlimited isn't a Rifts book, but I was disappointed with that one. My expectations were more like a D-Bee's of N. America, but it turned out to be "Here's how you make a lizard based alien, and here's how you make a bird based alien..."and so on and so forth. It's still a useful book, but I had a totally different picture of what I thought it was compared to what it really was. Just my expectations not being met.

Too many "people with animal head-masks" re; Star-Trek'ish stuff.
I really had hoped for some ALIEN aliens...like what the Stardrive / Alternity game line had.

Yeah, I guess the fact that it is so generic is what threw me off. DBees of NA has some really cool and unique life forms, and since I got that book first, my expectation was that Aliens Unlimited would be along those lines. Like I said before, it's still a useful book...it was just a bit of a let down for me.

[boxee]

I do not think this is a fair question. I think all the books have good and bad parts.
To fix wormwood maybe remove the part that says "only work in wormwood". That would pretty much fix the whole book. You could say rifts earth has an invasive spiritual link due to the connecting rifts and high magic and spirit energy.
England/Africa all the gods except india were screwed, use what you like remove what you dont. Anyone else notice the woman hate in the rifts books? Only woman they seem to like is the one I cant stand, anyone guess who? I also have to note that I dont think Hel was depicted well. I do not think she would ever become non-human, or she would join the Merchnoids, kill them all yes, eat their souls yes, be one NO.
I agree the cultures were not on target, so change what you like for your games. I also have to agree that Atlantis was not what the First Rifts main book said it would be.
I think Tolkeen could have been done differently, someone had a great rewrite of it, cant remember the link or I would post it, awsome rework btw.

[Killer Cyborg]

I found Austrialia 2 lacking, which is a shame since I loved Austrailia 1 so much.

Huh.
I prefer Australia 2, and wish that the first book had matched its quality and page count.

[Dunia]

Game Master Guide. To me, this book was mainly useless.

[Akashic Soldier]

The Lessons?

That's them! I loved the Lessons. I remember reading that for the first time and just thinking "Wow!"

[kaid]

Game Master Guide. To me, this book was mainly useless.

I would agree it is not as useful as I had hoped it would be. Still pretty nice one stop place for most major weapons/body armor/vehicles so when whipping stuff up on the fly you can find the info without having to paw through a ton of books.

[Forar]

The Rifts Novels-

This might have to be my choice as well.

Ye gods were they poorly edited, and I recall the finale of the third book being pretty much terrible.

[kaid]

I honestly really liked the rifts novels but the editing was lacking and that detracted from them.

[boxee]

Rifts: Grand Ole Opry was not worth the paper it was printed on.

Dude! You are spot on this time, but you must admit the "Barrister" class ruled! Other then that yea a waste of good toilet paper.

[jaymz]

I can honestly say I find value in pretty much every Rifts book there is. That includes the novels, and I very much enjoyed them for what they were, BUT (and you knew this was coming) I found Heroes of the Megaverse to be an utter disappointment for what it was hyped to be. I am yet to find a real use for this book in any game I want to run aside from the existence of the "Book of Heroes" in the Megaverse itself. It was the first book I ever had some desire to possibly send it back and say "this was crap give me back my money".

[Marrowlight]

I found Austrialia 2 lacking, which is a shame since I loved Austrailia 1 so much.

Huh.
I prefer Australia 2, and wish that the first book had matched its quality and page count.

I hate you and everything you stand for.


Canada was a pretty unmemorable book for me. Blowing up an excellent Rifter article and turning it into a full on book (I'm looking at you Xiticix Invasion) was also pretty meh.

But...without a doubt, Psyscape. There's a couple neat things about that book, but I just hate it and all the madness that surrounded it. First real crack in the foundation of Palladium for me (though I'm sure there were others way before, that others saw and I missed).

And nothing against TGK...but man I never wanted Madhaven expanded upon at all. Just an awful and cheesy idea, back when it was a paragraph blurb in the Erin Tarn fluff section. I'm sure he wrote a wonderful book - but I'd sooner have seen Rifts: Sanitation and Waste Management of Chi-Town turned into a world book.

[boxee]

I found Austrialia 2 lacking, which is a shame since I loved Austrailia 1 so much.

Huh.
I prefer Australia 2, and wish that the first book had matched its quality and page count.

I hate you and everything you stand for.


Canada was a pretty unmemorable book for me. Blowing up an excellent Rifter article and turning it into a full on book (I'm looking at you Xiticix Invasion) was also pretty meh.

But...without a doubt, Psyscape. There's a couple neat things about that book, but I just hate it and all the madness that surrounded it. First real crack in the foundation of Palladium for me (though I'm sure there were others way before, that others saw and I missed).

And nothing against TGK...but man I never wanted Madhaven expanded upon at all. Just an awful and cheesy idea, back when it was a paragraph blurb in the Erin Tarn fluff section. I'm sure he wrote a wonderful book - but I'd sooner have seen Rifts: Sanitation and Waste Management of Chi-Town turned into a world book.

In my game I made Madhaven the place for TMNT, Madhaven is underwater with skyscrapers sticking up. Birds rule over the other mutants here.

[say652]

rifts corebook.

[jaymz]

I'm sure he wrote a wonderful book - but I'd sooner have seen Rifts: Sanitation and Waste Management of Chi-Town turned into a world book.

Have you not read it?

[Killer Cyborg]

I found Austrialia 2 lacking, which is a shame since I loved Austrailia 1 so much.

Huh.
I prefer Australia 2, and wish that the first book had matched its quality and page count.

I hate you and everything you stand for.

Always nice to be appreciated!

Psyscape. There's a couple neat things about that book, but I just hate it and all the madness that surrounded it. First real crack in the foundation of Palladium for me (though I'm sure there were others way before, that others saw and I missed).

I thought that Psyscape was pretty cool, actually.
Until I tried to use it to run an adventure, and realized that they barely have ANY information on the city itself.

[Marrowlight]

I'm sure he wrote a wonderful book - but I'd sooner have seen Rifts: Sanitation and Waste Management of Chi-Town turned into a world book.

Have you not read it?

Skimmed upon release, purchased to show support for a fellow poster gone good and to help fill the struggling coffers of Palladium back in the day (Same with Arzno and the Shem sourcebook), but my RL gaming group left Palladium for D20 about 10 seconds after D20 products came out (Pathfinder hodge podge's are their current love, plus a lot of Green Ronin's DC game), and none of the stuff I've done online has gotten anywhere close to New York. So no, never gotten around to it.