Changelings and salt

[arouetta]

One of the players of my game is a changeling, and while I've been avoiding the issue to date, I am going to have to address limitations. The big one being salt.

Every food I can think of naturally contains salt. So what can a changeling eat? How much naturally occuring salt before a changeling becomes sick? Plus, what kind of salt? Sodium only or other salts (Ammonium, Calcium, Iron, Magnesium, Potassium and Lithium for example).

This gets really confusing every time I try to think it through, which is why I keep putting it off. What does everyone else think?

[kiralon]

With the salt thing i say that the changeling can eat most fresh foods without issue but has trouble with preserved foods, or dwarven made food. So basically the changeling has to eat fresh food unless the food is specially preserved without salt, which costs a lot more and doesn't last as long. (x4 cost, 1/2 preserved time). Taverns and inns can also be a problem with salt, and if the changeling eats food prepared at the tavern (salt is a flavour enhancer) i make the character roll under their PE on a d20, if they make it fine, if they dont make it the number that they fail by is how many hours they will suffer salt sickness, unless they specifically order lower salt food like bread and cheese, and raw cabbage.
I just use the level 8 (first ed) wizard spell curse as the salt sickness for that time.

One of my players cleverly played one as a vegetarian (for religious reasons).

[flatline]

If the changeling has the psionic power negate poison/toxin (or whatever it's called) or an equivalent ability, salt "poisoning" is easily dealt with.

--flatline

[Goliath Strongarm]

I generally just pay attention to what the character is consuming. When I think its too much, I start warning them. If they don't heed, then I hammer.

Generally, I allow once per day of "standard" preserved meats, twice per day of "tavern foods", etc. Beyond that, they feel queasy. If they go much beyond, they start getting physically ill, and risk losing control of the shapechange.

For 50g per meal, they can get foods that are magically preserved, that won't have the added salt, and last for approx 3 months.

I generally only apply it with foods that are really salty, and ignore most non-sodium. I also generally most naturally in the food salt, and focus on added salt, unless it's REALLY salty.

Also, you want to see freak out? Changeling test 247: drink this glass of sea water. That we dropped salt tablets into.

[flatline]

Also, you want to see freak out? Changeling test 247: drink this glass of sea water. That we dropped salt tablets into.

Wouldn't that make a regular human sick?

--flatline

[Goliath Strongarm]

Also, you want to see freak out? Changeling test 247: drink this glass of sea water. That we dropped salt tablets into.

Wouldn't that make a regular human sick?

--flatline

Make them gag, yes. Puke? Probably not.

Of course, during the Changeling hunts, it wasn't always about finding real changelings. Look at the real tests done in the Witch Hunts in New England. Designed for the only way to pass is to die. Drown, you're innocent, float or swim, guilty. Stand up to torture? It's proof of your Satanic master. Die under torture? Well, you're with God now.

[flatline]

Also, you want to see freak out? Changeling test 247: drink this glass of sea water. That we dropped salt tablets into.

Wouldn't that make a regular human sick?

--flatline

Make them gag, yes. Puke? Probably not.

Of course, during the Changeling hunts, it wasn't always about finding real changelings. Look at the real tests done in the Witch Hunts in New England. Designed for the only way to pass is to die. Drown, you're innocent, float or swim, guilty. Stand up to torture? It's proof of your Satanic master. Die under torture? Well, you're with God now.

Yes, I am ashamed of much of human history. We treat each other very badly.

--flatline

[Goliath Strongarm]

We treat each other very badly.

Agreed, but can be the basis for some great RPG ideas. And honestly, when presented in the format of RPGs, it's much easier to show people different aspects of culture, and make them think.

For example, MANY years ago, one of the players in my group was arguing for democracy, but only by those who can meet a "standard". Well, when the PCs got their own territory, he implemented that idea. And saw how it fell apart. (wasn't just because of me. In fact, was MOSTLY because of the other players). He had ideas that only people who had certain mental levels and educations should be able to vote, because, logically, they would make the best decisions for everyone. He failed to believe that they would make the best decisions for THEMSELVES, and that the "lower" members of society would ever have a problem with it.

Or the group that was playing monster races, but as GOOD GUYS. Racism is never more clear.

[kiralon]

take him to inking

[Nightmask]

Also, you want to see freak out? Changeling test 247: drink this glass of sea water. That we dropped salt tablets into.

Wouldn't that make a regular human sick?

--flatline

Consuming salt water will cause vomiting (which is why you're advised to not try and drink salt water if lost at sea, it'll dehydrate you faster due to the vomiting), I've no idea what it does to Changelings but if it makes them sick too or causes them to vomit it's not a particularly useful test.

[Goliath Strongarm]

Also, you want to see freak out? Changeling test 247: drink this glass of sea water. That we dropped salt tablets into.

Wouldn't that make a regular human sick?

--flatline

Consuming salt water will cause vomiting (which is why you're advised to not try and drink salt water if lost at sea, it'll dehydrate you faster due to the vomiting), I've no idea what it does to Changelings but if it makes them sick too or causes them to vomit it's not a particularly useful test.

In large amounts. In small amounts, will simply make a human nauseaous, and it causes dehydration. It does not necessarily cause vomiting. It's the increased salt that dehydrates people.

In fact, vomiting is NOT an immediate risk, and really is only likely if you're drinking it by the buckets (which can happen even with purified water, FYI). A single glass of sea water, while likely to make you gag because of the nasty taste, is probably not going to make you throw up. I grew up in SoCal, and I've been to multiple survival courses. Several times in my life I've drank sea water, and didn't throw up.

Now, the problem with drinking salt water is that because of the salt, you are often more thirsty, which leads to drinking more.

Upon EXCESSIVE intake, headaches, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, diarrhea with blood, etc are some of the symptoms, which accompany the increased thirst and the beginning dehydration (which can be noticed by decreased and darkened urination). Following this will be increased blood pressure, which leads to an increased heart rate.

As the dehydration gets worse, you have impaired judgement, kidney problems (and if it goes on long enough, kidney FAILURE), eventually culminating in brain damage and finally, death.

Of course, the SAME pattern will happen to a person who has an excessive salt intake, and doesn't drink enough water. It doesn't have to be SEA water to cause these effects.

[torjones]

One of the players of my game is a changeling, and while I've been avoiding the issue to date, I am going to have to address limitations. The big one being salt.

Every food I can think of naturally contains salt. So what can a changeling eat? How much naturally occuring salt before a changeling becomes sick? Plus, what kind of salt? Sodium only or other salts (Ammonium, Calcium, Iron, Magnesium, Potassium and Lithium for example).

This gets really confusing every time I try to think it through, which is why I keep putting it off. What does everyone else think?

At my table, Changelings can eat anything, as long as no salt has been added to it. Salt Preserved foods and pickled foods, have had salt added to it obviously, however, Smoked meats haven't had salt added. If you want to get into the salt levels of individual foods, then my recommendation would be that a changeling can safely eat 2 gram of salt per day (2000mg). Beyond that, they start getting nauseous. At 3 grams, they get rather sick. At 3.5 grams, they get violently ill and experiencing vomiting, and the other symptoms specified in the description. According to the UDSA, the average male eats about 4g of sodium per day, while the average female eats about 2.5-2.75g.

http://oto2.wustl.edu/men/sodium.htm is a pretty good reference. the only thing on the list I don't agree with is the Beef, Dried. I suspect a typo, or a crazy recipe for the dried beef. Of course, they may have been referring to Beef Jerky, which would be about right then, but it's still possible to make beef jerky without the salt, as is dried beef. Generally, a Changeling will avoid Pickled foods and foods that have been cured. Also, anything with Salt in the name (Salt Pork for example).

You can use substitutions for salt without sacrificing flavor, buy using MSG, Garlic (or more garlic in most recipes), and lemon pepper. Depending on what you're making is going to determine which you use and what combinations you use them in. Smoke is also a natural preservative, but not as good as salt. Figure about 2/3 the time for preserving via smoke vs salt preservation.

Alcohol is also a good preservative, and can bring flavor to the meal as well. Most people complain about lack of flavor when switching to a low-sodium diet.

It's very possible to eat a widely varied diet that is low in sodium/salt, and that's what changelings need to do to hide amongst the humans and other races that fear them. My changeling character masquerades as a female elf. it's commonly believed that Elven diets are low in meats already, so that's less salt for her to worry about. As mentioned earlier, women generally eat less salt than men, so that's less there as well. and that's without having to switch to a 'vegetarian' or 'vegan' diet to help your changeling hide amongst the bigoted humans.

A lot of times, people assume changelings get spotted when someone dips into their stew pot and find it rather bland. A Changeling should know this, and take steps to avoid such situations. One way is by being a Monk (as monks eat bland food, or at least that's the common perception). Another is by eating foods that aren't bland, by seasoning them with other things. Instead of the human view that Salt is NECESSARY for preservation, you go with the Elven view that there are many paths to Good Eats.

[The Dark Elf]

We kinda limit the effects to excessive amounts.

We play that changelings dont consume it generally but are able to without giving the game away if it is natural salts or tiny amounts.

Anything that has been especially salted for flavour or preservation (which is a lot in Palladium) will make them gag/vomit. So stuff that has salt added to it such as soups, sauces, meat etc.

Oh and they are unable to a troll

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is a Changeling NPC in one of the adventures/encounters in the "Island at the edge of the world"book.
This will give you some idea about how xenophobic the people of the PF world can be, where changelings are concerned.

[ZorValachan]

There is a Changeling NPC in one of the adventures/encounters in the "Island at the edge of the world"book.
This will give you some idea about how xenophobic the people of the PF world can be, where changelings are concerned.

..as well as the 'trials' that they use to find changelings. My group went through it. One (non changeling) died from one of the trials.

[Reagren Wright]

One of the players of my game is a changeling, and while I've been avoiding the issue to date, I am going to have to address limitations. The big one being salt.

Every food I can think of naturally contains salt. So what can a changeling eat? How much naturally occuring salt before a changeling becomes sick? Plus, what kind of salt? Sodium only or other salts (Ammonium, Calcium, Iron, Magnesium, Potassium and Lithium for example).

This gets really confusing every time I try to think it through, which is why I keep putting it off. What does everyone else think?

At my table, Changelings can eat anything, as long as no salt has been added to it. Salt Preserved foods and pickled foods, have had salt added to it obviously, however, Smoked meats haven't had salt added. If you want to get into the salt levels of individual foods, then my recommendation would be that a changeling can safely eat 2 gram of salt per day (2000mg). Beyond that, they start getting nauseous. At 3 grams, they get rather sick. At 3.5 grams, they get violently ill and experiencing vomiting, and the other symptoms specified in the description. According to the UDSA, the average male eats about 4g of sodium per day, while the average female eats about 2.5-2.75g.

http://oto2.wustl.edu/men/sodium.htm is a pretty good reference. the only thing on the list I don't agree with is the Beef, Dried. I suspect a typo, or a crazy recipe for the dried beef. Of course, they may have been referring to Beef Jerky, which would be about right then, but it's still possible to make beef jerky without the salt, as is dried beef. Generally, a Changeling will avoid Pickled foods and foods that have been cured. Also, anything with Salt in the name (Salt Pork for example).

You can use substitutions for salt without sacrificing flavor, buy using MSG, Garlic (or more garlic in most recipes), and lemon pepper. Depending on what you're making is going to determine which you use and what combinations you use them in. Smoke is also a natural preservative, but not as good as salt. Figure about 2/3 the time for preserving via smoke vs salt preservation.

Alcohol is also a good preservative, and can bring flavor to the meal as well. Most people complain about lack of flavor when switching to a low-sodium diet.

It's very possible to eat a widely varied diet that is low in sodium/salt, and that's what changelings need to do to hide amongst the humans and other races that fear them. My changeling character masquerades as a female elf. it's commonly believed that Elven diets are low in meats already, so that's less salt for her to worry about. As mentioned earlier, women generally eat less salt than men, so that's less there as well. and that's without having to switch to a 'vegetarian' or 'vegan' diet to help your changeling hide amongst the bigoted humans.

A lot of times, people assume changelings get spotted when someone dips into their stew pot and find it rather bland. A Changeling should know this, and take steps to avoid such situations. One way is by being a Monk (as monks eat bland food, or at least that's the common perception). Another is by eating foods that aren't bland, by seasoning them with other things. Instead of the human view that Salt is NECESSARY for preservation, you go with the Elven view that there are many paths to Good Eats.

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