Deck Plans for the Garfish ???

[Deathknight69]

Anybody have an idea where I could find these if they exist ????

Thx, D69

[jedi078]

They don't.

[Seto Kaiba]

Anybody have an idea where I could find these if they exist ????

As far as I'm aware, there are no official deck plans for the Garfish... nor are there any that were made specifically for the Robotech RPG. I'm not sure if there are any preexisting fan-made sets of deck plans, but I know one of my friends was talking about doing some for the Genesis Climber MOSPEADA game he's adapting from the 2E core book. I'll touch base with him and see if anything's come of that. (It's gonna be smaller than the RT equivalent, since the RT stats tend to state sizes at least twice what the original creators gave, but at least it'd be a starting point.)

[Alpha 11]

Anybody have an idea where I could find these if they exist ????

As far as I'm aware, there are no official deck plans for the Garfish... nor are there any that were made specifically for the Robotech RPG. I'm not sure if there are any preexisting fan-made sets of deck plans, but I know one of my friends was talking about doing some for the Genesis Climber MOSPEADA game he's adapting from the 2E core book. I'll touch base with him and see if anything's come of that. (It's gonna be smaller than the RT equivalent, since the RT stats tend to state sizes at least twice what the original creators gave, but at least it'd be a starting point.)

I would love to see them also.

[ArmySGT.]

Anyone have their own "Home brew" Garfish Variants?

Missile boat......... Removing the Aircrew contingent....... The launch bays are stuffed with launch tubes for LR missiles allowing volleys of 100 for launch bay (other space taken by cables, frames, etc) Removing Air crew and Destroid Crew........ Repurposing as a large Electronic Warfare and Extended Range Radar / Lidar picket ship..... with a towed passive array, hyperspace sensor, and QF 3000 Ghosts repurposed as disposable EW enemy systems suppression units with active jamming multi frequency pods.....

Search and Rescue........ Remove Air Crew, increase Destroid contingent....... Gladiatior and Cyclone equipped boarding teams to rescue pilots and crewmen of damaged space craft... Additional Gladiator destroids in the Alpha launch bays..

Gun boat...... Launch bays removed....... Zentraedi turrets salvaged from space hulks added to dorsal and ventral locations..... 1 or 2 top, and 1 bottom.... Destroid crew reduced by half to accomadate structural changes.

[Seto Kaiba]

I would love to see them also.

Caught up with my friend the other day. Sadly, he hasn't gotten that far yet. He's still working on the meat and potatoes of the whole affair, stats for infantry guns and Ride Armors. He said he plans to do the Ikazuchi and Horizont first.

Anyone have their own "Home brew" Garfish Variants?

You sure you're thinkin' of the right ship? The Garfish-class doesn't carry destroids... or anything, really, besides the small contingent of fighters in its ventral modular bay and whatever is crammed in its cargo hold. No New Gen ship carried destroids.

[ArmySGT.]

Anyone have their own "Home brew" Garfish Variants?

You sure you're thinkin' of the right ship? The Garfish-class doesn't carry destroids... or anything, really, besides the small contingent of fighters in its ventral modular bay and whatever is crammed in its cargo hold. No New Gen ship carried destroids.

I was under the impression there was a 4-6 destroid contingent aboard...... there appears to be bay doors on the port and starboard above the launch bays.

[Seto Kaiba]

I was under the impression there was a 4-6 destroid contingent aboard...... there appears to be bay doors on the port and starboard above the launch bays.

Nah, the whole Destroid concept went the way of the dinosaur not long after the 1st Robotech War ended in the RT-verse, and naturally they never existed in the MOSPEADA universe the ship was designed for. Apart from anything stowed in their cargo bays (which seem to be too small for anything except Cyclones or small arms in the series), they only carry the Alpha fighters in their ventral hangar bay (9 fighters in the OSM version, 15 in the RT version). That square part amidships is the modular docking port for various mission-specific hardware like the sensor package on the science version seen in the Shadow Chronicles "movie". (In the OSM, said area is just an aesthetic choice, and serves no actual function at all.)

[Sgt Anjay]

Um.

In the comics we see a Garfish deploy destroids, along with Myrmidons.

[Seto Kaiba]

In the comics we see a Garfish deploy destroids, along with Myrmidons.

Half-right. In the first issue of the Love & War limited series, we see a Garfish-class transport on the ground is either loading or unloading a Myrmidon from its hangar unit. There's no way to prove that the "Tiger" units standing nearby were from that ship (only one of its bays is open), and it's equally likely that the Garfish in question is recovering that particular unit... since what we're shown is part of the evacuation of UEDF survivors. The "Tiger" itself, AFAIK, has not yet been given any kind of official coverage in RT, and thus cannot be called a "Destroid" (yet... possibly).

The real clincher is that this doesn't affect my point at all... the Garfish-class does not, per its stats, carry any units other than its consignment of fighters under normal battlefield conditions. What we have in Love and War is not an example of what ArmySGT. was talking about - Garfish-class ships carrying ground mecha in addition to the 15 fighters they have - but rather a Garfish-class ship (potentially) operating (in extremis) with ground mecha taking the place of some of its fighters.

[Alrik Vas]

Blah, garfish. Never liked'm. Don't Ikazuchi's drop GMU's with destroid compliments?

[Seto Kaiba]

Blah, garfish. Never liked'm. Don't Ikazuchi's drop GMU's with destroid compliments?

I'm indifferent towards all of the MOSPEADA ship designs, so I kinda know where you're coming from.

As far as the Ikazuchi-class carrying destroids... no dice there either. Barring any (obviously) non-canon deviations in the forthcoming UEEF Marines sourcebook(s), the Ikazuchi-class's official stats don't identify ground mecha in its usual complement. It's mentioned that they can take some unspecified number of Horizon-T shuttles in an amidships hangar (that isn't actually present on the design and has never been shown), but that more or less relegates any ground mecha that the ships carry to just Cyclones and other units compact enough to fit into the Horizon-T.

The SDF-4 supposedly has a garrison module loaded with troops it can drop from orbit tho...

[ShadowLogan]

Anyone have their own "Home brew" Garfish Variants?

You sure you're thinkin' of the right ship? The Garfish-class doesn't carry destroids... or anything, really, besides the small contingent of fighters in its ventral modular bay and whatever is crammed in its cargo hold. No New Gen ship carried destroids.

I was under the impression there was a 4-6 destroid contingent aboard...... there appears to be bay doors on the port and starboard above the launch bays.

Depends on the continuity version one is looking at:
-1st Edition RPG Garfish did have a Destroid complement (at least 1 MAC out of 6-8).
-don't have specs for it in the 2E RPG (but they are generally similar to the RT.com Infopedia when those are available)
-RT.com infopedia (and Art of the Shadow Chronicles) doesn't mention Destroids per say, but mentions that additional mecha can be carried in the cargo hold in addition to 15 Alphas.

What those mecha are/can be is anyone's guess. One could replace Alpha fighters with VHTs or other mecha (still have to watch height of the Alpha hanger, a close fit for ASC nt-battloid size mecha (anything larger is going to have to be on its back/side). It is unlikely to be Destroids though as they appear to have dropped out of use by the time we get to NG era.

Anybody have an idea where I could find these if they exist ????

As far as I'm aware, there are no official deck plans for the Garfish... nor are there any that were made specifically for the Robotech RPG. I'm not sure if there are any preexisting fan-made sets of deck plans, but I know one of my friends was talking about doing some for the Genesis Climber MOSPEADA game he's adapting from the 2E core book. I'll touch base with him and see if anything's come of that. (It's gonna be smaller than the RT equivalent, since the RT stats tend to state sizes at least twice what the original creators gave, but at least it'd be a starting point.)

The Fansite for "Third Invid War" with the 1E RPG did have deckplans of a fashion for their Chimera relative of the Garfish, the site though has fallen into disuse as that part isn't up anymore. I don't think it would be much help, they had it as a cutaway side view instead of top-down view IIRC. Otherwise I think that is the closest one will find to Garfish deckplans.

Someone already did a GCM writeup that adapted the 1E RPG (Forum rules prevent linking because of the RPG stats, but the stats and loadouts have been changed to be more accurate to the OSM/RT.com infopedia).

[Alrik Vas]

Blah, garfish. Never liked'm. Don't Ikazuchi's drop GMU's with destroid compliments?

I'm indifferent towards all of the MOSPEADA ship designs, so I kinda know where you're coming from.

As far as the Ikazuchi-class carrying destroids... no dice there either. Barring any (obviously) non-canon deviations in the forthcoming UEEF Marines sourcebook(s), the Ikazuchi-class's official stats don't identify ground mecha in its usual complement. It's mentioned that they can take some unspecified number of Horizon-T shuttles in an amidships hangar (that isn't actually present on the design and has never been shown), but that more or less relegates any ground mecha that the ships carry to just Cyclones and other units compact enough to fit into the Horizon-T.

The SDF-4 supposedly has a garrison module loaded with troops it can drop from orbit tho...

I was probably just hoping the SDF-3 wasn't the only thing that i recall carrying destroids or GMUs (i only have 1st edition books for Robotech). I liked the design look of the Ikazuchi carriers and horizonts, but the Garfish was just ugly as sin. It just seems completely out of place when compared to the other two ships.

What was the MOSPEADA reason for that ship? Was it a part of a much older fleet?

[Sgt Anjay]

In the comics we see a Garfish deploy destroids, along with Myrmidons.

Half-right. In the first issue of the Love & War limited series, we see a Garfish-class transport on the ground is either loading or unloading a Myrmidon from its hangar unit.

Unloading. Although clearly loading was about to start up fairly soon.

There's no way to prove that the "Tiger" units standing nearby were from that ship (only one of its bays is open), and it's equally likely that the Garfish in question is recovering that particular unit

Even if you could contrive a reason for a ship other than the one which deployed it to recover that unit of destroids and Myrmidons, the simplest and easiest explanation would remain that the ship which deployed the unit is recovering it.

The "Tiger" itself, AFAIK, has not yet been given any kind of official coverage in RT, and thus cannot be called a "Destroid" (yet... possibly).

Yes, it can. Just like if a mecha transformed I wouldn’t need “official coverage” to call it a veritech, that machine is clearly a destroid.

The real clincher is that this doesn't affect my point at all

Well, it does rather affect your assertion that destroids were abandoned wholesale after the 1st Robotech War.

the Garfish-class does not, per its stats, carry any units other than its consignment of fighters under normal battlefield conditions.

It doesn't as a standard complement in any of the configurations listed for it under the Shadow Chronicles continuity, no. But even if one ignores the fact that the room for “additional mecha” is listed for its cargo hold, the ship’s modularity is officially noted, leaving open a ground mecha transport configuration option for those interested in possible versions of the Garfish.
.

What we have in Love and War is not an example of what ArmySGT. was talking about - Garfish-class ships carrying ground mecha in addition to the 15 fighters they have

You can’t, in point of fact, prove that. The possibility that is indeed what we are seeing exists.

[Seto Kaiba]

I was probably just hoping the SDF-3 wasn't the only thing that i recall carrying destroids or GMUs (i only have 1st edition books for Robotech). [...]

Well, the use of destroids is something of a tricky question... the Sentinels destroids seem to have been entirely taken out of the setting, almost certainly for copyright reasons after Harmony Gold's falling out with Macross's owners. Thus far, the rebooted Robotech seems to only place ground units on the very largest ships as a matter of course, the ones that are mentioned in that respect being the SDF-3 and SDF-4. There's the suggestion that ground forces can be ferried in on the Ikazuchi- or Garfish-class ships, but thus far that's entirely "informed ability" and has never been shown.

I liked the design look of the Ikazuchi carriers and horizonts, but the Garfish was just ugly as sin. It just seems completely out of place when compared to the other two ships.

Yeah, the rounded aesthetic of the Garfish is kind of jarring when compared to the other ships...

What was the MOSPEADA reason for that ship? Was it a part of a much older fleet?

The Garfish? It was a "high speed transport" that was one of the older ships in use by Mars Colony, designed to ferry nine Armo-Fighters and a large consignment of supplies. I don't know if it was part of the pre-invasion Mars Colony forces, but it does seem to have been in use during the 1st Earth Recapture operation.

Unloading. Although clearly loading was about to start up fairly soon.

Just looking at it, it could go either way... there's no motion lines or anything to indicate what direction that Myrmidon was moving in. It's just as likely that it was backing up the ramp.

Even if you could contrive a reason for a ship other than the one which deployed it to recover that unit of destroids and Myrmidons, the simplest and easiest explanation would remain that the ship which deployed the unit is recovering it.

Assuming they'd fit, or were not covering that particular Garfish before being recovered in something a little more large mecha-friendly like a Horizon-T's storage pods. Again, we can't say much of anything for certain about that scene.

Yes, it can. Just like if a mecha transformed I wouldn’t need “official coverage” to call it a veritech, that machine is clearly a destroid.

The term "destroid" seems to have fallen out of use to describe non-variable mecha in RT, otherwise the non-variable battloids would carry the moniker as well. Since we know the square root of bloody nothing about it, we can't say for certain what its classification is.

It doesn't as a standard complement in any of the configurations listed for it under the Shadow Chronicles continuity, no. But even if one ignores the fact that the room for “additional mecha” is listed for its cargo hold, the ship’s modularity is officially noted, leaving open a ground mecha transport configuration option for those interested in possible versions of the Garfish.

We do see a Garfish-class ship's cargo hold in the series, and it's almost certainly not large enough to hold something like a destroid or non-transformable battloid. The modularity referred to in the RTSC materials seems to be confined purely to the equipment on the docking connector amidships and the weapons configuration inside the bow hatch. I suppose the possibility exists that you could cram a few ground mecha in there, but there'd be no safe way to disembark them once it landed.

[ArmySGT.]

Blah, garfish. Never liked'm. Don't Ikazuchi's drop GMU's with destroid compliments?

They do serve a purpose in the game..... The PC team is based upon one, thus the crew complement isn't so massive that it is not plausible for the PC team to be chosen for mission after mission...

That and the Team doesn't have battalions of troops lined up behind them..... So the Team Leader on the ground (PC) does make decisions, not deferring by radio to a Colonel or General in orbit above.....

A Garfish has enough firepower for a harrowing rescue, without so much you can ask afterward...... "Why risk four to six pilots?".

It is scenery and a plot hammer as needed......

[Seto Kaiba]

They do serve a purpose in the game..... The PC team is based upon one, thus the crew complement isn't so massive that it is not plausible for the PC team to be chosen for mission after mission... [...]

That's not a bad setup at all... it keeps the group of NPCs you have to manage/remember fairly small, since those ships are very sparsely crewed, and as you say you have a ready-made excuse for the same handful of troops (the PCs) being called up for each sortie. The only problem is small ships like that aren't really balanced-enough that you can take them into your average big, climactic space battle and expect it to still be there when your players get back.

The Robotech game that I'm peripherally involved with has a custom-made small-scale carrier for the PCs to be based on... it's a little more capacious than a Garfish-class or a Shimakaze-class, but not nearly as heavily armed as a RTSC Garfish or Shimakaze. It let their GM do something fairly similar, though it had some supporting ships along for the ride. I swear it looks like a chibi version of the Clone Wars cartoon Star Destroyers, but Star Wars fans of my acquaintance tell me I'm bonkers. Haven't really had an opportunity to do something like that in the Macross II game I was running, as the smaller UN Spacy ships top 800 meters, and the bigger ones are the size of the Macross. The Macross Frontier game we're starting up can get away with that much more easily, since we can always draw on the awesomest PC-only insertion ship ever... the Valhalla III-type stealth carrier. Light on the guns, stealthy, and just enough room inside for nine VFs for the PCs and one or two NPCs.

[ArmySGT.]

They do serve a purpose in the game..... The PC team is based upon one, thus the crew complement isn't so massive that it is not plausible for the PC team to be chosen for mission after mission... [...]

That's not a bad setup at all... it keeps the group of NPCs you have to manage/remember fairly small, since those ships are very sparsely crewed, and as you say you have a ready-made excuse for the same handful of troops (the PCs) being called up for each sortie. The only problem is small ships like that aren't really balanced-enough that you can take them into your average big, climactic space battle and expect it to still be there when your players get back.

The Robotech game that I'm peripherally involved with has a custom-made small-scale carrier for the PCs to be based on... it's a little more capacious than a Garfish-class or a Shimakaze-class, but not nearly as heavily armed as a RTSC Garfish or Shimakaze. It let their GM do something fairly similar, though it had some supporting ships along for the ride. I swear it looks like a chibi version of the Clone Wars cartoon Star Destroyers, but Star Wars fans of my acquaintance tell me I'm bonkers. Haven't really had an opportunity to do something like that in the Macross II game I was running, as the smaller UN Spacy ships top 800 meters, and the bigger ones are the size of the Macross. The Macross Frontier game we're starting up can get away with that much more easily, since we can always draw on the awesomest PC-only insertion ship ever... the Valhalla III-type stealth carrier. Light on the guns, stealthy, and just enough room inside for nine VFs for the PCs and one or two NPCs.

I use the Zentreadi Fleet commanded by Breetai........ Essentially all those ships are along for the ride........ The Zentraedi are micronized..... That leaves acres of space....... The next ship above a Garfish I would assign players is an Zentraedi scout ship (REF refit).

It is armored, it is armed, and it is fold capable.

Back to the Garfish though. Like you say you can round out the NPCs carefully. I usually stat 10 generic crewmen (then change the name), maybe a crew chief that supervises maintenance on the Team mecha. Then of course the Ops Officer that briefs the missions, First Officer, Senior Enlisted, and the Ships Captain......

If it is important for the story, then I will stat that rival team (Damn those Hellcats! They beat us to the enemy CP again!). If there needs to be some tension or than invid, invid, invid.

Garfish are the heroic "Tin cans" of the Sentinels (or your choice) they intercept the enemy attacks and save the larger Ships of the Line.

So when you need that tragedy in your campaign (It's payback for Captain Armstrong and the crew of the Halberd!) to motivate the players or give credence for why a small team of Shadow fighters would infiltrate a hive to kill the brain and leave behind a reflex warhead........

well you just do.

[ArmySGT.]

Blah, garfish. Never liked'm. Don't Ikazuchi's drop GMU's with destroid compliments?

They do serve a purpose in the game..... The PC team is based upon one, thus the crew complement isn't so massive that it is not plausible for the PC team to be chosen for mission after mission...

Sorry, meant "Not implausible"......

[ShadowLogan]

The term "destroid" seems to have fallen out of use to describe non-variable mecha in RT, otherwise the non-variable battloids would carry the moniker as well. Since we know the square root of bloody nothing about it, we can't say for certain what its classification is.

I don't think the term has ever applied to all non-variable mecha in RT, but a specific sub-group/class of mecha connected to TMS.

Within the 85ep series we only hear it used in TMS. Later it's just Battloids or specific mecha. That trait was carried over into the RPG (either edition). IIRC even the novels followed that idea. Sentinels in any case has used the term in those later sources, but the units are derived from the TMS version.

We do see a Garfish-class ship's cargo hold in the series, and it's almost certainly not large enough to hold something like a destroid or non-transformable battloid. The modularity referred to in the RTSC materials seems to be confined purely to the equipment on the docking connector amidships and the weapons configuration inside the bow hatch. I suppose the possibility exists that you could cram a few ground mecha in there, but there'd be no safe way to disembark them once it landed.

The mid-ship interior cargo hold could do it, but it would depend on the mecha in question and if any preparations are made for larger units. Because lets face it, mecha is to broad a term for RT as they come in a variety of sizes. One also has to consider the possibility of other cargo holds on the ship, ones that might be better suited (and ones that can connect to the underside hangars, which would be a safe way to disembark).

The underside Alpha Hanger Bays could also double for some other mecha to be carried like VHTs, ASC PA, Cyclones, Silverbacks without much difficulty I would think. Battloids/Bioroids might be another matter (really depends on how tall the ceiling is in each launch bay animation makes it look like at least x2 the height of F mode Alpha). Granted this requires changing out the Alphas for other mecha (room might exist without changing out given the Alphas are stacked in there).

Yes, it can. Just like if a mecha transformed I wouldn’t need “official coverage” to call it a veritech, that machine is clearly a destroid.

I don't know about that it is clearly a Destroid part. The thing could pass for a new VHT model in Gladiator mode without any trouble giving us light (Myrm), med. (VHT-1), and heavy ("tiger") VHT models given a lack of indication of articulated arms (just like the VHT in G mode and the Beta) and the reverse articulated knees (not unique to VTs given the Monster/MAC-type of Destroid, but would muddy the water).

[Seto Kaiba]

I use the Zentreadi Fleet commanded by Breetai........ Essentially all those ships are along for the ride........ The Zentraedi are micronized..... That leaves acres of space....... The next ship above a Garfish I would assign players is an Zentraedi scout ship (REF refit).

It is armored, it is armed, and it is fold capable.

Well, so's the Garfish... but I suppose being many times larger, the Zentradi scout ship would be able to mobilize larger forces once crewed by humans. I avoid using them myself, because when their stats are corrected using OSM data there's not a heck of a lot of actual room on there. It's basically the Zentradi equivalent of a Garfish. Maybe with room for a single battlepod platoon or VF squad, but not much else. (Palladium tends to overestimate the carrying capacity of all the Zentradi ships... and their crew sizes too. Usually by at least 2x.)

Back to the Garfish though. Like you say you can round out the NPCs carefully. I usually stat 10 generic crewmen (then change the name), maybe a crew chief that supervises maintenance on the Team mecha. Then of course the Ops Officer that briefs the missions, First Officer, Senior Enlisted, and the Ships Captain......

I'd imagine that when Greg finally gets around to the Garfish-class for his GCM work, the crew'll be smaller than that. RT makes the ship about twice the size its original creators intended, and its bridge is only about the same size as what's found on the Horizont. Seats four, tops, so a crew of eight or so plus the pilots.

Garfish are the heroic "Tin cans" of the Sentinels (or your choice) they intercept the enemy attacks and save the larger Ships of the Line.

That's one usage of 'em I've always felt is slightly implausible. Mars Colony's forces in the OSM didn't really use what we'd call good, conventional fleet defense practices because their ships were basically just boxes intended to move troops from staging areas to the "shores" of Earth. They're treated more like landing ships than an actual fleet. The Horizont shuttles are basically space versions of the Higgins boats (personnel, light vehicle landers), while the Garfish transports are like the larger utility landers carrying bulk supplies, and the Ikazuchi carriers provide air cover for the landings. They're not shown with a carrier-and-frigates dynamic, really... though the proportion is about right.

The mid-ship interior cargo hold could do it, but it would depend on the mecha in question and if any preparations are made for larger units. Because lets face it, mecha is to broad a term for RT as they come in a variety of sizes.

Indeed, though the existing material for the GCM-derived parts of Robotech suggests that the UEEF favored their land mecha as small as possible... Cyclones and Silverbacks, rather than larger units like destroids, hovertanks, etc.

The underside Alpha Hanger Bays could also double for some other mecha to be carried like VHTs, ASC PA, Cyclones, Silverbacks without much difficulty I would think.

Oh, it's certainly possible... we see that much in Love and War. Whether it's practical is a whole other matter. The ship would need to actually land (or at least get VERY, uncomfortably close to the ground to deploy something like Spartas hovertanks, Cyclones, or Silverbacks), and it doesn't seem to be designed for quick take off and landing operations like the Horizon-T is. In all likelihood, the would be used exactly as we see them used in the series... provide light air support for a bevy of dedicated troop landers (Horizon-T's) and carry supplies for extended surface-side operations that they could hand off to the ground forces once a drop site was properly secured.

[ShadowLogan]

Indeed, though the existing material for the GCM-derived parts of Robotech suggests that the UEEF favored their land mecha as small as possible... Cyclones and Silverbacks, rather than larger units like destroids, hovertanks, etc.

Hovertanks aren't too dissimilar in size to the Silverback in rough dimesnions:
Vehicle Modes (H x L x W):
Silverback (L): 1.8m (2.4m w/rear turret) x 3.9m x 2.1 (2.4m w/side weapons)
VHT-1: 2.25mft x 6m x 2.7m
VHT-2: 1.06m x 4.5m x 1.7m

Any opening that a loaded Silverback can fit though a VHT-2 can fit though with room to spare, and the VHT-1 only needs slightly more room staying level (tipping partially on it's side it could fit). The VHTs being longer need more room to turn and for storage, but they certainly can be used. "L&W" does suggest the UEEF was using VHTs in that time period (and Scott does spot "Hovertanks" in NG#2 off screen, so the UEEF may still use them).

[ArmySGT.]

I use the Zentreadi Fleet commanded by Breetai........ Essentially all those ships are along for the ride........ The Zentraedi are micronized..... That leaves acres of space....... The next ship above a Garfish I would assign players is an Zentraedi scout ship (REF refit).

It is armored, it is armed, and it is fold capable.

Well, so's the Garfish... but I suppose being many times larger, the Zentradi scout ship would be able to mobilize larger forces once crewed by humans. I avoid using them myself, because when their stats are corrected using OSM data there's not a heck of a lot of actual room on there. It's basically the Zentradi equivalent of a Garfish. Maybe with room for a single battlepod platoon or VF squad, but not much else. (Palladium tends to overestimate the carrying capacity of all the Zentradi ships... and their crew sizes too. Usually by at least 2x.)

Back to the Garfish though. Like you say you can round out the NPCs carefully. I usually stat 10 generic crewmen (then change the name), maybe a crew chief that supervises maintenance on the Team mecha. Then of course the Ops Officer that briefs the missions, First Officer, Senior Enlisted, and the Ships Captain......

I'd imagine that when Greg finally gets around to the Garfish-class for his GCM work, the crew'll be smaller than that. RT makes the ship about twice the size its original creators intended, and its bridge is only about the same size as what's found on the Horizont. Seats four, tops, so a crew of eight or so plus the pilots.

Actually, there is a helluva lot of room. if the average Zentraedi is 32 feet tall and not 50 feet...... then we are talking an average floor to ceiling space of 40 feet in crew accommodations. That is a four story building!

Why bump up to the Zentradi Scout ship? Adventures aboard ship...... I typically dedicate decks to non-sexy things like aquaponics...... Converting an entire section of one deck into four stories of grow beds and fish tanks...... The REF has to eat.... They eat lots of vegetables and fish proteins.

Another thing is every ship is a factory but, to prevent rebellion or to make it more difficult they only build partial assemblies....... So another deck is a smallish robotech factory.... These factories are redundant across several ships in any flotilla or fleet...... So one is making electronics, another recycles alloys and makes armor plate, another builds missile bodies, another makes propellants, another makes fuzes, etch. There are some Zentraedi Landing ships fully converted to be factories, that move between fleets as their own flotilla. These do the complete assembly of all the components, and deliver a finished product...... The loss of these to sabotage, combat, or subversion would be a harsh blow to the REF however, again mitigated by scattering production across the Fleets onto every ship.

So bumping up gives the opportunity for the GM to run adventures onboard a largish vessel with a huge crew.... Zentraedi/Masters sympathizers aboard are sabotaging systems. An Invid attack has been thwarted or has it? There appears to be an oblong object with pods for six humanoids, though none are present. Insurrection! A group of REF soldiers and officers are rebelling against the REF, their goal is to take the ship and leave the Fleet for a fold back to Earth.....

Whole decks can be simulators and crew quarters...... Ground forces training in simulator pods on missions that are squad level up to Division level exercises..... Enter your machine pilot!

There is a lot you can cram in there when you can convert one Zentraedi deck to 3-4 human decks, while leaving the launch bays original.

[Seto Kaiba]

Hovertanks aren't too dissimilar in size to the Silverback in rough dimesnions:

That doesn't include the required ground clearance for VHT hover operation though. There's enough room, but not quite as much as the physical dimensions alone make it appear.

"L&W" does suggest the UEEF was using VHTs in that time period (and Scott does spot "Hovertanks" in NG#2 off screen, so the UEEF may still use them).

As I said to Sgt Anjay, I'm not sure we can really make any determinations about the Myrmidon in Love & War. We don't know if that Garfish was loading or unloading it (the former seems more likely, since what we're shown is the UEDF withdrawing from Earth). Older material, e.g. the Sentinels comics, did indicate that the UEEF used hover tanks and other equipment common to the UEDF, but that has since been retroactively replaced by the UEEF and UEDF each with its own separate set of gear in the current continuity and 2E.

(I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's not representative of standard operating practice.)

Actually, there is a helluva lot of room. if the average Zentraedi is 32 feet tall and not 50 feet...... then we are talking an average floor to ceiling space of 40 feet in crew accommodations. That is a four story building!

True enough, but the ship also needs somewhere to keep the supplies it needs for long operations away from "port", things like fuel, ammunition, food, and (in UEG service) repair parts for ship systems and mecha. A helpful tactic I've found when trying to gauge the capacity of any given Zentradi ship in workable terms is to divide its physical dimensions by 5, putting things in terms of human scale for estimating Zentradi crew usage, which can then be used as a scale factor for adapting the ships to human crews. (It kind of helps that the OSM gives us a starting point for the typical crew size, around 1,500 for a 2km-long battleship.)

Humans adapting Zentradi ships is pretty well precedented in Macross, though they tended to go for minimal mods to reduce the work needed to adapt the ships. The crew stayed at Zentradi size, so they could use the existing systems on the ship, and the humans got adaptations like catwalks and tie-ins to the ship's computers in their size for support. (Such as we saw in the ep. where they capture the factory satellite.)

Why bump up to the Zentradi Scout ship? Adventures aboard ship...... I typically dedicate decks to non-sexy things like aquaponics...... Converting an entire section of one deck into four stories of grow beds and fish tanks...... The REF has to eat.... They eat lots of vegetables and fish proteins.

Ah, I've always gone with the synthetic food route for that myself... unless it's a really big ship like one of the Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleships. In my games, I've repurposed those as colony ships a few times. (Which made me LOL IRL when Kawamori talked about the UN Spacy totally doing that in an interview he gave about Macross Frontier years later.)

[jaymz]

Just to note, unless I misunderstood what was said, the Garfish IS in fact statted out in 2e. It is, along with the Ikazuchi and Haydonite ships, in the Deluxe Hardcover edition of Robotech The Shadow Chronicles.

No Destroids per se but it carries 9 Alphas and 6 Bioroid Interceptors or any combination of 15 thereof with an additional 105 Cyclones.

[taalismn]

Well, I'll go out on a limb and propose, using the hinted-at modular lower bays of the Garfish, a dedicated destroid/battloid carrier with upright bays....maybe capacity for 3-6 standing destroids/battloids(2 per 'stall'). Not ahelluva lot, true, and hardly enough to justify dedicating an entire ship to carry just three, but Cyclone capacity )and maybe a few Silverbacks) remains, allowing for a mixed mecha 'infantry' unit.
The main problem is timing...The Garfish seems to have come along after destroids/non-transformable battloids as a major weapon have passed from the frontline and small rapid-deployment units. With the exception of the Condor and Bioroid Interceptor, which can fly, the older ground-bound clankers would seem to be relegated to transport aboard the bigger transports like the Iks. Like moving M-1 Abrams MBTs via the big freighters, rather than the smaller amphibious warfare ships.
Still, at some point, somebody's going to want to move and deploy a handful of destroids/non-transformable battloids ready to go, feet on the ground, ready to rock, without waiting for a big Ik to become available, or cranking one out and up from being laid out in a Horizont bunker-pod.

Hopefully, UEEF Marines, if and when it materializes, will address some of these issues.

[glitterboy2098]

given that the lower bay on a garfish is a module (replaced by sensor gear in the one we see in Shadow Chronicles for example..), i don't see why a "big assault bay" like a giant extra wide and tall Horizont cargo pod couldn't be fitted. big enough to carry a company or so of 1st war Destroids, maybe twice as many condor's/bioroid interceptors. and having a big assault ramp on the front so the mecha can just walk right off after lanfding.

similar bays could be set up to deploy battalions of cyclone and Silverback troops, or drop major engineering teams with their vehicles.

[jaymz]

Or a dedicated ship for such a purpose may exist for the Marines specifically...that woudl make more sense to me at least.

[Seto Kaiba]

Or a dedicated ship for such a purpose may exist for the Marines specifically...that woudl make more sense to me at least.

*cough* Horizon-V what?

[jaymz]

I meant something a bit bigger but yes that would be about right as well.

[taalismn]

Or a dedicated ship for such a purpose may exist for the Marines specifically...that woudl make more sense to me at least.

I'll believe it when I see it.
Best bets though would be for a modified(early model? Like the one the old vets were flying?) Garfish or a derivation of one of the larger Southern Cross shuttles/destroyers, modified as a 'parasite' craft flying in a larger cruiser's Fold envelope.

[SailorCallie]

If Palladium decides to give the Robotech ships book another try, they should include not only the deck plans for the Garfish, but every ship in the franchise's history.

[jaymz]

Or a dedicated ship for such a purpose may exist for the Marines specifically...that woudl make more sense to me at least.

I'll believe it when I see it.
Best bets though would be for a modified(early model? Like the one the old vets were flying?) Garfish or a derivation of one of the larger Southern Cross shuttles/destroyers, modified as a 'parasite' craft flying in a larger cruiser's Fold envelope.

Funny you should mention that...the uRRG did something along those lines but then got rid of it.I kept it. It was a variant Tristar used as a pseudo "landing ship" for ground units.

[ArmySGT.]

Actually, there is a helluva lot of room. if the average Zentraedi is 32 feet tall and not 50 feet...... then we are talking an average floor to ceiling space of 40 feet in crew accommodations. That is a four story building!

True enough, but the ship also needs somewhere to keep the supplies it needs for long operations away from "port", things like fuel, ammunition, food, and (in UEG service) repair parts for ship systems and mecha. A helpful tactic I've found when trying to gauge the capacity of any given Zentradi ship in workable terms is to divide its physical dimensions by 5, putting things in terms of human scale for estimating Zentradi crew usage, which can then be used as a scale factor for adapting the ships to human crews. (It kind of helps that the OSM gives us a starting point for the typical crew size, around 1,500 for a 2km-long battleship.)

The answer for that is they do not. The real world analog is our "wet" navy. Every fleet and flotilla has more supply, tanker, and repair vessels than pure combat ships. An Aircraft carrier only has enough stores for 4 days of missions before resupply is required. Even submarines that set out for six month missions meet up with sub tenders for resupply..... Thus any REF vessels has enough consumables for 3-5 days continuous combat operations or 20 days non combat operations.. Then they meet up with the proper supply vessels and take on what they need.

I envision that after the wholesale micronization effort of the REF three out of four Zentraedi vessels are without crews. Those are converted to the required support vessels.

Humans adapting Zentradi ships is pretty well precedented in Macross, though they tended to go for minimal mods to reduce the work needed to adapt the ships. The crew stayed at Zentradi size, so they could use the existing systems on the ship, and the humans got adaptations like catwalks and tie-ins to the ship's computers in their size for support. (Such as we saw in the ep. where they capture the factory satellite.)

Prior to the REF expedition and maybe towards the end of Space War One, or First Robotech War. Probably.........Later when it is time to rebuild and consolidate, especially with all the Zentraedi converted to human size that makes little sense, as anything other than a stop gap measure.

Why bump up to the Zentradi Scout ship? Adventures aboard ship...... I typically dedicate decks to non-sexy things like aquaponics...... Converting an entire section of one deck into four stories of grow beds and fish tanks...... The REF has to eat.... They eat lots of vegetables and fish proteins.

Ah, I've always gone with the synthetic food route for that myself... unless it's a really big ship like one of the Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleships. In my games, I've repurposed those as colony ships a few times. (Which made me LOL IRL when Kawamori talked about the UN Spacy totally doing that in an interview he gave about Macross Frontier years later.)

Having spent some tours eating MRE and canned rations........ You don't want the host of medical issues that would bring on, and food has a huge impact on morale. No, any Commander that is not completely uncaring of the lowest ranks is going to be pressing for "Real Food!" on the mission.

[Seto Kaiba]

The answer for that is they do not. The real world analog is our "wet" navy. Every fleet and flotilla has more supply, tanker, and repair vessels than pure combat ships.

Oh, it's true enough for real-world navies... but it's demonstrably not the case for Robotech's forces. We're shown in "The Big Escape" (Ep12) that Zentradi ships carry their own consignments of supplies. That's how Rick, Lisa, and company make their way back to the SDF-1 from Dolza's fortress... they board a scout ship that's taking on fresh supplies in a dock at the fortress by getting on the conveyer belt in the docking umbilical and hiding among the crates. The Zentradi fleet is utterly bereft of tankers, tenders, and repair vessels. This seems to hold true for the UEDF and UEEF fleets as well, as we never once see anything resembling a support vessel. 2E sort of implies that the SDF-3 and SDF-4 were mobile depots for the UEEF fleet, and that otherwise resupply was carried out at "ports" (bases) like Moon Base ALuCE, Liberty station, etc.

EDIT: I just remembered, when Breetai lets his ship get hit by the Daedalus attack on purpose, the battle pods that board through the docking arm are shown hiding among supply crates in a cargo hold near the bow before the Daedalus punches its way in.

I envision that after the wholesale micronization effort of the REF three out of four Zentraedi vessels are without crews. Those are converted to the required support vessels.

If the series and subsequent material is any indication, there are only a handful of Zentradi ships that survive the massive detonation that ends Dolza's fortress. Apart from a few smaller ships we see in the factory satellite itself in "Viva Miriya", Breetai's is the only one that appears after the war. The RTSC official art book suggests Zentradi ships were commonly a source of salvaged engines and other systems for new UEEF and UEDF ships.

Later when it is time to rebuild and consolidate, especially with all the Zentraedi converted to human size that makes little sense, as anything other than a stop gap measure.

When, exactly, all Zentradi were forced to convert to human size is unclear... from the sound of things, it was done some time during the Expedition's absence.

Having spent some tours eating MRE and canned rations........ You don't want the host of medical issues that would bring on, and food has a huge impact on morale.

That's assuming that synthetic food hasn't progressed by leaps and bounds... I mean, where did Khyron get that MASSIVE drumstick he's chomping on while holding Minmei hostage? No Earth animal contributed that, and I don't see the Zentradi, being a society with no knowledge of anything outside of military affairs, being capable farmers. The UEEF seems to have very few surface installations, so "real" food may simply not have been an option.

[jaymz]

@ArmySGT - I think Seto means synthetic as in "vat-grown" meats etc. They'd essentially be "real"

[Seto Kaiba]

@ArmySGT - I think Seto means synthetic as in "vat-grown" meats etc. They'd essentially be "real"

No, I totally mean artificial foods... synthetic meat patties, and the like.

[jaymz]

@ArmySGT - I think Seto means synthetic as in "vat-grown" meats etc. They'd essentially be "real"

No, I totally mean artificial foods... synthetic meat patties, and the like.

Thus "vat-grown" being in "" they have to be created somehow right?

[ArmySGT.]

Apparently each of you is blessedly unaware of military rations.... for your sake I can hope you remain ignorant of them.

[ArmySGT.]

The answer for that is they do not. The real world analog is our "wet" navy. Every fleet and flotilla has more supply, tanker, and repair vessels than pure combat ships.

Oh, it's true enough for real-world navies... but it's demonstrably not the case for Robotech's forces. We're shown in "The Big Escape" (Ep12) that Zentradi ships carry their own consignments of supplies. That's how Rick, Lisa, and company make their way back to the SDF-1 from Dolza's fortress... they board a scout ship that's taking on fresh supplies in a dock at the fortress by getting on the conveyer belt in the docking umbilical and hiding among the crates. The Zentradi fleet is utterly bereft of tankers, tenders, and repair vessels. This seems to hold true for the UEDF and UEEF fleets as well, as we never once see anything resembling a support vessel. 2E sort of implies that the SDF-3 and SDF-4 were mobile depots for the UEEF fleet, and that otherwise resupply was carried out at "ports" (bases) like Moon Base ALuCE, Liberty station, etc.

EDIT: I just remembered, when Breetai lets his ship get hit by the Daedalus attack on purpose, the battle pods that board through the docking arm are shown hiding among supply crates in a cargo hold near the bow before the Daedalus punches its way in.

First, the REF is who I am discussing, how the Zentraedi supply their forces is another topic. Except to say it is key in their ultimate defeat. Second, the Masters are assumed to be highly intelligent, efficient, and resourceful..... If so, then the same frames are used again and again appearing to be indistinguishable from the exterior, all the while internally much different. The Quiltra Queleul being the most likely candidate. Keeping only one crew deck, the bridge, and the engineering sections with life support, fold system, power generation, and engines, you end up with a ships hull that internally can be reconfigured for other tasks.

I envision that after the wholesale micronization effort of the REF three out of four Zentraedi vessels are without crews. Those are converted to the required support vessels.

If the series and subsequent material is any indication, there are only a handful of Zentradi ships that survive the massive detonation that ends Dolza's fortress. Apart from a few smaller ships we see in the factory satellite itself in "Viva Miriya", Breetai's is the only one that appears after the war. The RTSC official art book suggests Zentradi ships were commonly a source of salvaged engines and other systems for new UEEF and UEDF ships.

What is a handful of over 4 million? I imagine great numbers are broken down for engines and components if the damage is severe. However, if you find yourself with a lightly damaged fully operational hull, at a time when your critically short of a fleet, why you use it.

Later when it is time to rebuild and consolidate, especially with all the Zentraedi converted to human size that makes little sense, as anything other than a stop gap measure.

When, exactly, all Zentradi were forced to convert to human size is unclear... from the sound of things, it was done some time during the Expedition's absence.

I was under the impression this was done after the Zentraedi defeat, and a part of the story with the insurrections, the Zentraedi Control Zone, and all those troubles. Difficult to feed 30 foot giants.

Having spent some tours eating MRE and canned rations........ You don't want the host of medical issues that would bring on, and food has a huge impact on morale.

That's assuming that synthetic food hasn't progressed by leaps and bounds... I mean, where did Khyron get that MASSIVE drumstick he's chomping on while holding Minmei hostage? No Earth animal contributed that, and I don't see the Zentradi, being a society with no knowledge of anything outside of military affairs, being capable farmers. The UEEF seems to have very few surface installations, so "real" food may simply not have been an option.

One the Zentraedi are artificial constructs.... What they can consume may be very limited, with very strict dietary requirements, or extremely broad with an ability to resist bacteria and toxins............ Not clearly defined anywhere that I know...... This speaks to the Zentraedi supply system and not the REF one though.

[ShadowLogan]

Actually, there is a helluva lot of room. if the average Zentraedi is 32 feet tall and not 50 feet...... then we are talking an average floor to ceiling space of 40 feet in crew accommodations. That is a four story building!

Actually the VF-1 can walk around with plenty of clearance, and it is 42ft tall, so you are actually looking at taller ceilings than 40ft.

That doesn't include the required ground clearance for VHT hover operation though. There's enough room, but not quite as much as the physical dimensions alone make it appear.

The VHTs can and do ride pretty low to the ground, so ground clearance is not going to impact the VHT vs Silverback in the amount of room they use.

As I said to Sgt Anjay, I'm not sure we can really make any determinations about the Myrmidon in Love & War.

I agree we can not make any determination here, which is why I put "suggest" in. Even several years into the Invid Occupation and cut off from Earth, UEEF soldiers can identify VHTs suggests they do still use them (its not the only possible way to take that scene).

[jaymz]

Actually from what I have heard recently from several military types I chat with in the US, the current MREs are not really all that bad if the proper instructions are followed in regards to their preparation.

[Seto Kaiba]

Apparently each of you is blessedly unaware of military rations.... for your sake I can hope you remain ignorant of them.

You shouldn't make assumptions without good evidentiary support... which is going to be a recurring theme for this post. Yes, I have experienced MREs. I didn't find them to be at all unpalatable, to be honest. But then, I may be conditioned somewhat by my own terrible cooking.

First, the REF is who I am discussing, how the Zentraedi supply their forces is another topic.

That's fine... and immaterial too. You're still (officially) wrong in your assumptions.

You're assuming that these ships have supply needs like modern blue water naval vessels that run on fuel oil or on nuclear fission. They don't. There are no tenders, no tankers, and no supply ships. Per the OSM, the Robotech series, and the 2nd Edition RPG, pretty much every ship we see can carry enough supplies to operate independently without resupply for months or even years. The Zentradi ships in 2E's Macross Saga sourcebook carry enough supplies to operate without resupply for 7-10 YEARS. Even tiny human ships like the Shimakaze-class are described in their stats as carrying an entire year's worth of consumables at a time. Even older ships like the ARMDs carried enough supplies to sustain its crew and air wing for six months. Larger ships, like the SDF-4, are described as carrying supplies for their entire fleet and also having enough consumables to keep its immense population operating without resupply for 2 years.

(Based on the OSM, the 2nd Edition RPG may actually be understating the endurance of these ships. The SDF-1 Macross was listed as having only 18 months of supplies, its mass production counterparts in the original Macross universe(s) had supplies and recycling facilities sufficient to enable them to operate for years, or even decades in the field. Some of the larger Zentradi ships are mentioned to have been serving without outside resupply for millennia... the record-holder is Boddole Zer's mothership, at 120,000 years of independent operation.)

Second, the Masters are assumed to be highly intelligent, efficient, and resourceful..... If so, then the same frames are used again and again appearing to be indistinguishable from the exterior, all the while internally much different.

There's no evidence to support this, and abundant evidence in the show and the RPG to suggest that no supply craft are needed because these ships can carry enough supplies on their own to operate for years without resupply. The Masters may be cleverer than you give them credit for being, even if it doesn't show in their sense of style.

The Quiltra Queleul being the most likely candidate.

It's worth mentioning that in over 30 years, and more Macross sequels than one can shake a stick at, we have yet to see a single tender, tanker, or dedicated supply ship. Not one. These ships have MASSIVE endurance.

What is a handful of over 4 million?

Based on the number we actually see in the series? Three or four. Yes, no zeroes there. Just three or four ships, total, when we're also counting the ones seen inside the factory satellite.

I imagine great numbers are broken down for engines and components if the damage is severe. However, if you find yourself with a lightly damaged fully operational hull, at a time when your critically short of a fleet, why you use it.

By all indications in the series, ships in the "lightly damaged but fully operational" category were sparse or nonexistent. We only ever see one ship converted to human use, and that's Breetai's. It's not like we're talking Macross or Macross II: Lovers Again, where humanity has hundreds or thousands of the bloody things sitting around, to the point they have too many to use and start converting them into colony ships and ground-based habitats.

One the Zentraedi are artificial constructs.... What they can consume may be very limited, with very strict dietary requirements, or extremely broad with an ability to resist bacteria and toxins............ Not clearly defined anywhere that I know...... This speaks to the Zentraedi supply system and not the REF one though.

We see the Zentradi get by just fine on human food, and are said to be genetically identical to humans, so smart money says Zentradi eat like humans.

[ArmySGT.]

Apparently each of you is blessedly unaware of military rations.... for your sake I can hope you remain ignorant of them.

You shouldn't make assumptions without good evidentiary support... which is going to be a recurring theme for this post. Yes, I have experienced MREs. I didn't find them to be at all unpalatable, to be honest. But then, I may be conditioned somewhat by my own terrible cooking.

Oh, the novelty…….. 58 days straight, two a day……… I would have kicked a baby for a pizza… There is only 24 options…. Bless them, up from the original 12….

First, the REF is who I am discussing, how the Zentraedi supply their forces is another topic.

That's fine... and immaterial too. You're still (officially) wrong in your assumptions.
You're assuming that these ships have supply needs like modern blue water naval vessels that run on fuel oil or on nuclear fission. They don't. There are no tenders, no tankers, and no supply ships. Per the OSM, the Robotech series, and the 2nd Edition RPG, pretty much every ship we see can carry enough supplies to operate independently without resupply for months or even years. The Zentradi ships in 2E's Macross Saga sourcebook carry enough supplies to operate without resupply for 7-10 YEARS. Even tiny human ships like the Shimakaze-class are described in their stats as carrying an entire year's worth of consumables at a time. Even older ships like the ARMDs carried enough supplies to sustain its crew and air wing for six months. Larger ships, like the SDF-4, are described as carrying supplies for their entire fleet and also having enough consumables to keep its immense population operating without resupply for 2 years.

I am not really worried about the “official” stats made by comic book artists….. I literally laughed out loud just reading what the official stats you a have provided…….. Care to do the arithmetic? I think you will find, if figured up, the quantities you suggest, the crews would be duct taped to the outside…. The volume that material would take up, in crates and barrels ……….

(Based on the OSM, the 2nd Edition RPG may actually be understating the endurance of these ships. The SDF-1 Macross was listed as having only 18 months of supplies, its mass production counterparts in the original Macross universe(s) had supplies and recycling facilities sufficient to enable them to operate for years, or even decades in the field. Some of the larger Zentradi ships are mentioned to have been serving without outside resupply for millennia... the record-holder is Boddole Zer's mothership, at 120,000 years of independent operation.)

Well, that would be the secret of the success of the SDF-1. is a massive recycling factory. Apples to dead Zentraedi everything gets recycled.

Second, the Masters are assumed to be highly intelligent, efficient, and resourceful..... If so, then the same frames are used again and again appearing to be indistinguishable from the exterior, all the while internally much different.

There's no evidence to support this, and abundant evidence in the show and the RPG to suggest that no supply craft are needed because these ships can carry enough supplies on their own to operate for years without resupply. The Masters may be cleverer than you give them credit for being, even if it doesn't show in their sense of style.

Fortunately for them I like their cartoon……. There is simply no way that could work out……

The Quiltra Queleul being the most likely candidate.

It's worth mentioning that in over 30 years, and more Macross sequels than one can shake a stick at, we have yet to see a single tender, tanker, or dedicated supply ship. Not one. These ships have MASSIVE endurance.

Support ships are very sexy, not really the cool part of the story, no romance at all. Necessary for the gamer though, everything has to come from somewhere.

What is a handful of over 4 million?

Based on the number we actually see in the series? Three or four. Yes, no zeroes there. Just three or four ships, total, when we're also counting the ones seen inside the factory satellite.

So there aren’t any ships left over to tear down for the engines and space fold systems to build human ships for the REF mission to Tirol……. Oops, plot inconsistency.

I imagine great numbers are broken down for engines and components if the damage is severe. However, if you find yourself with a lightly damaged fully operational hull, at a time when your critically short of a fleet, why you use it.

By all indications in the series, ships in the "lightly damaged but fully operational" category were sparse or nonexistent. We only ever see one ship converted to human use, and that's Breetai's. It's not like we're talking Macross or Macross II: Lovers Again, where humanity has hundreds or thousands of the bloody things sitting around, to the point they have too many to use and start converting them into colony ships and ground-based habitats.

Not consistent across all the different story lines…… yes, I have heard that before. So despite all the different ships, we only get treated to the interior view of one main characters ship…… Damn them! Don’t the know we thrive on minutiae!
So, you don’t see that as inference modifications are made throughout the Fleet?

One the Zentraedi are artificial constructs.... What they can consume may be very limited, with very strict dietary requirements, or extremely broad with an ability to resist bacteria and toxins............ Not clearly defined anywhere that I know...... This speaks to the Zentraedi supply system and not the REF one though.

We see the Zentradi get by just fine on human food, and are said to be genetically identical to humans, so smart money says Zentradi eat like humans.

So they are not indelicate………… However, doesn’t mean they don’t season their food with strychnine like I season mine with tabasco.. Artificial constructs.

[Seto Kaiba]

Postin' from my mobile at the mo', so please forgive the lack of quote blocks.

Firstly, regardless of whether you like it or not, the numbers I provided are official and correct (within the context of the RPG). You're assuming that these ships have the same materiel requirements as modern ones. We know they have incredibly advanced recycling and materials reprocessing technology, which doubtless enables these long operation times without resupply.

It's not that supply ships aren't very cinematic... in the original 3 shows and RT, they just aren't necessary. Everything does, as you say, have to come from somewhere... which is what cargo holds and onboard factories are for. Resupply operations, when necessary, are shown to be carried out at a "port".

As far as surviving Zentradi ships go, there were only a few that came through the war intact. Lots of wrecks to salvage tho.

The number of surviving Zentradi ships is understandably different between stories due to each timeline's unique circumstances. RT has to put the Zentradi on a bus because they don't exist in the other two shows used to make it and are now a litigious landmine. The original Macross universes are obviously under no such restriction.

As far as Zentradi diet, they're identical to humans genetically, so their diet should also be identical.

[taalismn]

As far as Zentradi diet, they're identical to humans genetically, so their diet should also be identical.

Identical, but in their giant forms I'd expect different propotions and formulations.
A few clues might come from looking at the largest and most energetic predators on Earth eat...I'm discounting filter-feeding whales because it doesn't take a lot of effort to sneak up on krill...so sperm whales and orcas would be the best comparison. Aggressive, heavy, energetic predators.
LOTS of protein, I mean LOTS, And carb-loading, plus more dietary fiber than an elehant takes in. A Zentraedi wants to build muscle and have lots of reserve energy ready to go.
Of course, Zentraedi Masters-dictated fare isn't anywhere near as appetizing as steak and pasta all the time. CHON-chemical slop and edible fiberboard for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with slight variations on texture and taste, plus whatever occasional 'local' foodstuffs are smuggled aboard during a planetary campaign, or are harvested of necessity(thanks to tie-ups in logistics).

[glitterboy2098]

rule of thumb is that an active warm blooded animal needs to eat roughly its own mass each week. for multi-ton zents, that could get ugly. though i'd not be surprised if they didn't have some physiology tweaks when macronized to reduce the metabolic needs a bit. (Gigantothermy alone would reduce it a bit, purely to avoid frying ones insides from the square-cube issue)

[Seto Kaiba]

Identical, but in their giant forms I'd expect different propotions and formulations.
[...]
Of course, Zentraedi Masters-dictated fare isn't anywhere near as appetizing as steak and pasta all the time. CHON-chemical slop and edible fiberboard for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with slight variations on texture and taste, plus whatever occasional 'local' foodstuffs are smuggled aboard during a planetary campaign, or are harvested of necessity(thanks to tie-ups in logistics).

Oddly, you'd expect that to be the case... but the show seems to undermine it in several areas. If you recall the scene in which Kamjin/Khyron makes his debut, in the original version he and Oigul/Grell were betting liquor rations on the number of collisions they'd cause by defolding too close to Britai's fleet. Zentradi scale booze shows up in the post-timeskip episodes too, along with drumsticks large enough for Zentradi... which suggests they're eating a rather more human-like diet than a theoretical exercise in feeding giants would suggest.

[ArmySGT.]

So how official or canon are the stats for ships and equipment at the Robotech.com website? Regarding the tenders and support vessels...... They say what I suspected, the landing ship (with different internal arrangements) is the support vessel... serving as tanker and tender.