E.B.S.I.S. - Eastern Baltic Soveriegn Independant States

[glitterboy2098]

quick update:
the next couple updates are in the works, when i have time. i've got a lot of writing to do to to make the Africa campaign portion of the history viable. before i can write up the history in full, i've got to detail out an enemy group in more detail than previous groups. mainly because i feel it needs some real detail applied, it's involving a society that is very misunderstood in real life, and accurate details will help make it work.

though other aspects are in the works too. like the EBSIS energy weapons for the mid to late 2020's..

[Chris0013]

2 questions for you GB2098

1..how goes the EBSIS Veritech?
2..Have you considered giving them the Centaur tank??

[taalismn]

quick update:
the next couple updates are in the works, when i have time. i've got a lot of writing to do to to make the Africa campaign portion of the history viable. before i can write up the history in full, i've got to detail out an enemy group in more detail than previous groups. mainly because i feel it needs some real detail applied, it's involving a society that is very misunderstood in real life, and accurate details will help make it work.

though other aspects are in the works too. like the EBSIS energy weapons for the mid to late 2020's..

Ah! Pimpmygun to the rescue again!

[glitterboy2098]

2 questions for you GB2098

1..how goes the EBSIS Veritech?

on hold while i figure out major issues with the design. i might end up scrapping the current concept and starting over.

2..Have you considered giving them the Centaur tank??

actually i'm hoping ot eventually make the centaur tank an example of a UEDF vehicle from before the zentraedi arrive.

[taalismn]

2..Have you considered giving them the Centaur tank??

actually i'm hoping ot eventually make the centaur tank an example of a UEDF vehicle from before the zentraedi arrive.

Knock-off EastBloc versions made with influences from older Russian/Sov-era tanks, maybe?
Or an Israeli Merkeva-version with onboard troop carrying capability perhaps....

[taalismn]

I like the Merkava idea, or alternatively, BOTH a Soviet-esque adapted tank and a model that drops the turret for a longer back end, infantry compartments, and retains the armatures as support weapons.

Hard disembarking in what passes for Battloid mode, though, unless your troop complement is used to repelling.

[Chris0013]

I like the Merkava idea, or alternatively, BOTH a Soviet-esque adapted tank and a model that drops the turret for a longer back end, infantry compartments, and retains the armatures as support weapons.

Hard disembarking in what passes for Battloid mode, though, unless your troop complement is used to repelling.

Doctrine could have them disembarking in tank mode then it goes battloid for support.

[glitterboy2098]

IMO, the Centaur is not a veritech, it's a tank with parts that move. it's operation is no more veritech like than the engine pods of the V-22 Osprey or the mechanical arms of the various 'giraffe tanks' explored in the 80's (which stuck weaponry and sensors atop canadarm type mechanical extensors.) or the experiments in 'mantis tanks' in the decades before that.

the centaur is a conventional tank with liftjet pods on either side to provide hover mobility, it's hull suspended on hydralic rams above them to give clearance for the turbine propulsion and to allow for the whole multipart assembly to shift to keep it in ground effect even as the terrain changes. under the hull you have a pair of remote weapon stations, atop the hull you have a tank turret.

nothing mecha like about it.
if it was using treads or wheels instead of hoverjets, no one would confuse it, because it would end up looking like a mars rover or the scorpion tank of Halo.

[glitterboy2098]

However, going back a few steps on infantry weapons.. Are you talking Battloid infantry weapons, or straight leg/mechanized infantry weapons?

if your refering to these, they are Infantry scale energy weapons. comparable to (and at least partially based on 'obtained' plans and data of) the ASC laser weapons like the LAR-10.
i've been working on detailing them out. they don't do quite as much damage, but have better range (they use a different set of optics). their battery packs are not compatible with ASC weapons (and vice versa... each use different connectors), though adapters could certainly be made (and probably are in the New Gen era)

(provided EBSIS isn't using powered armored suits later on)

i'd love to use powered armor, but aside from this mock up for the US Army, i've not been able to find any real world examples that would fall under fair use. and the 'Micronian PA' from the 1st ed RPG's Strikeforce book has way too many UEG design elements to it. (it's obviously in the liniage that led to the Cyclone, it uses a UEG fighter helmet design, etc)
to be honest i've had similar issues regarding body armor.. i don't like the old RPG's EBSIS armor (too Darth Vader-ish, make it looks like part of an 'evil empire' as a result), and there are not many other options to pick from.

but what about an earlier ground defense vehicle based on the ZSU-23 and 57 with dual 57 autocannon, or even 4 57mm autocannon for a heavier punch?

in most cases i'm limited to what the Baltic states had to start with. most of them don't have much of the older vehicles, having switched to SAM based anti-aircraft or like poland, having developed their own vehicles with a domestically produced gun and ammo.

and i'm trying to standardize as much as i can. each of the countries had it's own mix of Warsaw Pact and NATO gear, since each was in the process of transitioning to NATO in the 90's. (something i assume still happened in robotech. you can assume either simialr history to our world, or assume it was part of the UEG's effort..either way). as a result, the EBSIS starts with a hodge podge of calibres and guns, many of which were reliant on external source of supply. i've been trying to standardize around types that were either in production by one of the group, or which was in heavy use and thus would be a high priority for getting their own production started for.

I wouldn't use MILAN. The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-14_Spriggan AT-14 Spriggan has been in use since 1994, and has a lot better track record. Longer range, larger warhead, and less training required.

be aware that in a lot of cases, i'm picking images from real world stuff developed after 1999[/i] to represent stuff that doesn't exist in real life, developed by robotech factions with SDF-1 or alien derived technologies.

for things like Infantry carried ATGM's, i'd really prefer to just have the launcher image, not the missile (since the EBSIS SRM's are supposed to be based on the 125mm AT-8 Songter/9K112 Kobra gun launched ATGM's)

but it seems like all the decent images i can find have the missile in the background, or obvious national flags/patches/gear on the troops using it that aren't part of the EBSIS.
the MILAN launcher was the best 'Modern looking' example of a tube-on-tripod ATGM launcher i could find.

What were you planning to use for your medium and long range missiles?

honestly, i didn't plan on changing those from the RPG's versions. though i had plans to build on what i started with the AIM-120Cb/AIM-120Eb AMRAAM and write up a number of specialty missiles that have stats different from the standard table in the RPG.

to be honest, i'd love to find an alternative image for the 73mm guided minimissiles than the rocket used by the 2A28 Grom/SPG-9... those 73mm rounds are like almost a meter long, friggen huge compared to the tiny soda can missiles and stub rockets we see used by the Cyclones or the RL-1 in Macross.
i'd switch to something like the Rafale 'Mini-Spike' if i could, which while annoyingly similar in size to the 'Grom' rockets (75mm x 700mm), at least looks like a guided missile.
or shortened versions of the Hydra-70 rocket and it's various guided versions in the works.


though to be honest, i should really just try to draw my own, with features from all three i like, but i've not wanted to go through the hassle. especially since MSpaint artwork would be not nearly as nice as the rest of the stuff on the pages.


as for machineguns, i've looked at the russian ones, and they'll show up. but i'm also trying to see what NATO stuff is in the countries involved, and whether those systems might end up being cloned and adopted wholesale instead.

[SRoss]

(provided EBSIS isn't using powered armored suits later on)

i'd love to use powered armor, but aside from this mock up for the US Army, i've not been able to find any real world examples that would fall under fair use. and the 'Micronian PA' from the 1st ed RPG's Strikeforce book has way too many UEG design elements to it. (it's obviously in the liniage that led to the Cyclone, it uses a UEG fighter helmet design, etc)
to be honest i've had similar issues regarding body armor.. i don't like the old RPG's EBSIS armor (too Darth Vader-ish, make it looks like part of an 'evil empire' as a result), and there are not many other options to pick from.

Their was that flying suit that the micronized Zentraedi were using to fight the Invid in one of the comics. But I agree with you about the EBSIS armour from Lancer's Rockers perhaps a baroque version of the ASC armour or a utilitarian version?

[Jefffar]

gliterboy2098

Here is the latest Russian shoulder launched rocket the RPG-32: http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/g ... pg32-1.jpg

In regards to MGs the Russians seem to be replacing their 12.7mm DShK and NSVs with the Kord. 14.5mm KPVs seem to be being replaced by 30 mm cannons (which is an indication of how powerful this weapon really is).

[ShadowLogan]

I like the Merkava idea, or alternatively, BOTH a Soviet-esque adapted tank and a model that drops the turret for a longer back end, infantry compartments, and retains the armatures as support weapons.

Hard disembarking in what passes for Battloid mode, though, unless your troop complement is used to repelling.

What about a ramp that can extend itself (either with a gravity fed sliding mechanism or folding bridge type as seen on bridge laying vehicles) depending on the configuration?

I honestly think it is sort of a hybrid between a full robotic mecha and a conventional vehicle to create a poor-man's Destroid/Battloid. As is it already is akin to an artillery Destroid, with customized weapons you can cover all the Destroid/VHT missions. Swap the weapon arms (and likely go with a smaller gun in the turret) and you get something akin to a Spartan Destroid (or ASC nt-Battloid).

[Jefffar]

Being inside the passenger compartment of a transforming veritech or a moving battloid is probably a fairly unpleasant and unhealthy experience anyway. I suspect the passengers will need to disembark before transformation regardless.

Perhaps the passenger module disconnects and drops off during the transformation?

Alternatively it is set up as a seperate trailer like a BV-206

[Chris0013]

IMO, the Centaur is not a veritech, it's a tank with parts that move. it's operation is no more veritech like than the engine pods of the V-22 Osprey or the mechanical arms of the various 'giraffe tanks' explored in the 80's (which stuck weaponry and sensors atop canadarm type mechanical extensors.) or the experiments in 'mantis tanks' in the decades before that.

the centaur is a conventional tank with liftjet pods on either side to provide hover mobility, it's hull suspended on hydralic rams above them to give clearance for the turbine propulsion and to allow for the whole multipart assembly to shift to keep it in ground effect even as the terrain changes. under the hull you have a pair of remote weapon stations, atop the hull you have a tank turret.

nothing mecha like about it.
if it was using treads or wheels instead of hoverjets, no one would confuse it, because it would end up looking like a mars rover or the scorpion tank of Halo.

Not saying it is one way or another...mostly just using "battloid" and "tank" as identifiers for the up and down positions respectively. Could even introduce it as a pre-SDF unit that got upgrades after.

Was just thinking more about it and it could be a way to "introduce" the old school plasma ejector as the main cannon. Make the weapon arms conventional with SLAP ammo.

Just spitballing some ideas.

[taalismn]

Being inside the passenger compartment of a transforming veritech or a moving battloid is probably a fairly unpleasant and unhealthy experience anyway. I suspect the passengers will need to disembark before transformation regardless.

Perhaps the passenger module disconnects and drops off during the transformation?

Alternatively it is set up as a seperate trailer like a BV-206

Just remember to hook your passenger pod back up before zipping away on a hoverjet-borne retreat...otherwise you're leaving your infantry team in the dust, calling a curse upon your bloodline.

And no, the Centaur doesn't qualify as a Veritech, any more than a wheeled or treaded AFV with lowerable axels qualifies. The Centaur can just raise and lower its frame for greater visibility and allowing the turret to shoot over obstacles(like building walls), while the 'arms' are more like multi-positional gun mounts(good for shooting around corners, for instance, or covering those arcs on the vehicle's main body where infantry are trying to make like ticks).
An infantry compartment doesn't necessarily have to transform with the rest of the vehicle/mecha...it can simply be part of the main compartment(s) of the vehicle in question. Though I agree that a modular unit would allow for more versatility to the vehicle, allowing it to carry cargo, collapsed field facility kits, and even possibly ordnance carriers like VLS missile launchers or mine dispensers, which would more befit an AFV than a combat mecha.

[glitterboy2098]

new page up.

got a chance to start in with infantry gear..

i'll have my original art laser weapons up eventually, and i've got a line on some decent body armor images, so i hope to get that up too. but with Assault rifles and MG's you can at least start outfitting your troops.

[ZINO]

new page up.

got a chance to start in with infantry gear..

i'll have my original art laser weapons up eventually, and i've got a line on some decent body armor images, so i hope to get that up too. but with Assault rifles and MG's you can at least start outfitting your troops.

very well done man!!!! your website ROCKS!!!!

[Jefffar]

Nice G36 OICW image.

[glitterboy2098]

Nice G36 OICW image.

its technically a prop from the a bond film.. but it looks like something that might actually get built, so i figured why not.

[jaymz]

Keep it up.

[jedi078]

At a quick glance I like this new take on the EBSIS and will try to incorporate it into my Macross era game set in 2014 that takes place in Africa. The EBSIS has yet to be involved too much in the game but that can always change.

Although over the course of my 7 year long PBP game I have the EBSIS using refurbished Zent warships in space, and produce their own veritechs which are very similar to VF-1's, but are not swing wing.

[RiverJack]

quick update:
the next couple updates are in the works, when i have time. i've got a lot of writing to do to to make the Africa campaign portion of the history viable. before i can write up the history in full, i've got to detail out an enemy group in more detail than previous groups. mainly because i feel it needs some real detail applied, it's involving a society that is very misunderstood in real life, and accurate details will help make it work.

though other aspects are in the works too. like the EBSIS energy weapons for the mid to late 2020's..

This looks nice. How I stylize my EBSIS infantry weapons is different. I feel it fits better with their background if the majority of the Infantry are using shortened barreled material rifles.

[glitterboy2098]

At a quick glance I like this new take on the EBSIS and will try to incorporate it into my Macross era game set in 2014 that takes place in Africa. The EBSIS has yet to be involved too much in the game but that can always change.
Although over the course of my 7 year long PBP game I have the EBSIS using refurbished Zent warships in space, and produce their own veritechs which are very similar to VF-1's, but are not swing wing.

My Ebsis's involvement in Africa is actually the next major part of their history i'm working on. it just needs a wider array of supplemental material to back it up (like some of the minor powers and such in the region), so it is taking awhile.

i don't intend to give my EBSIS a strong space program.. mostly was thinking a kind of 'orbit guard' using converted zent shuttles and landing craft carrying specially modified destroids... but that mostly as a debris removal service to prevent major chunks from hitting ebsis lands.
it is just really hard to justify a major space presence when we know the ASC has that huge fleet. (plus, in mine the EBSIS does not remain in an antagonistic stance with the UEG.. eventually a settlement is worked out, one of the stipulations of which would be regulations on 'WMD's'..including space navies. basically the UEG wanting to keep a monopoly on combat starships in Sol space, giving them a weapon the EBSIS doesn't have should the treaties fall apart. i might consider giving them a few converted Zent Scouts or maybe a few scratch built 'black projects' in violation of treaty.. depends on what i can come up with story wise)

quick update:
though other aspects are in the works too. like the EBSIS energy weapons for the mid to late 2020's..

This looks nice. How I stylize my EBSIS infantry weapons is different. I feel it fits better with their background if the majority of the Infantry are using shortened barreled material rifles.

energy weapons have major advantages in terms of damage done vs weight carried.. ammo is heavy, and the SLAP weapons all use large burst sizes for their effect. i went with lasers because lasers are fairly simple compared to things like particle beams or plasma (the latter is a ***** to weaponize..) and i'm assuming that they can't replicate the ultra precise narrow lens optics used to make the long narrow barrel weapons of the ASC and UEEF.. so instead they use larger more robust lens systems that weigh more but are more durable.

[ShadowLogan]

i'd love to use powered armor, but aside from this mock up for the US Army, i've not been able to find any real world examples that would fall under fair use. and the 'Micronian PA' from the 1st ed RPG's Strikeforce book has way too many UEG design elements to it. (it's obviously in the liniage that led to the Cyclone, it uses a UEG fighter helmet design, etc)

Have you considered treating pressurized dive suits like JIM (or even spacesuits) for the basic chassis of a power armor and have them use a modular weapon mount(s)? The modular weapons could be displayed separately, or photomaniped in.

[SRoss]

i don't intend to give my EBSIS a strong space program.. mostly was thinking a kind of 'orbit guard' using converted zent shuttles and landing craft carrying specially modified destroids... but that mostly as a debris removal service to prevent major chunks from hitting ebsis lands.
it is just really hard to justify a major space presence when we know the ASC has that huge fleet. (plus, in mine the EBSIS does not remain in an antagonistic stance with the UEG.. eventually a settlement is worked out, one of the stipulations of which would be regulations on 'WMD's'..including space navies. basically the UEG wanting to keep a monopoly on combat starships in Sol space, giving them a weapon the EBSIS doesn't have should the treaties fall apart. i might consider giving them a few converted Zent Scouts or maybe a few scratch built 'black projects' in violation of treaty.. depends on what i can come up with story wise)

Perhaps some Gnarl fighter pods converted into five-man cutters?

[glitterboy2098]

i'd love to use powered armor, but aside from this mock up for the US Army, i've not been able to find any real world examples that would fall under fair use. and the 'Micronian PA' from the 1st ed RPG's Strikeforce book has way too many UEG design elements to it. (it's obviously in the liniage that led to the Cyclone, it uses a UEG fighter helmet design, etc)

Have you considered treating pressurized dive suits like JIM (or even spacesuits) for the basic chassis of a power armor and have them use a modular weapon mount(s)? The modular weapons could be displayed separately, or photomaniped in.

So go the SF3D / maschining kreiger route?
Might work though. I'd probably get original art whipped up, since my photomanip skills suck. And I've never much liked how those work out. Otherwise I could do a ebsis vf easy with that 'guardian mode PAKFA' photoshop from a few years back.

[ShadowLogan]

@glitterboy2098
Pretty much. Revell's Robotech Defender "Aqualo" and a few of the ASC "power armor" really make me think of pressurized diving suits, which is why I suggested it.

[Chris0013]

What about using the Zent Striker Battloid from RotM 2nd ed as an original EBSIS design reverse engineered from MPA and FPA

[glitterboy2098]

What about using the Zent Striker Battloid from RotM 2nd ed as an original EBSIS design reverse engineered from MPA and FPA

i'm not sure what i want to do with the Striker.. it is an interesting bland of styles that doesn't quite fit anywhere.

i probably could make it a EBSIS unit, though it doesn't really fit the 'blocky' aesthetic of their other units.

it doesn't really fit the ASC's or UEG's style either, though i could probably make it a 'zentraedi auxiliary' unit..

[jedi078]

At a quick glance I like this new take on the EBSIS and will try to incorporate it into my Macross era game set in 2014 that takes place in Africa. The EBSIS has yet to be involved too much in the game but that can always change.
Although over the course of my 7 year long PBP game I have the EBSIS using refurbished Zent warships in space, and produce their own veritechs which are very similar to VF-1's, but are not swing wing.

My Ebsis's involvement in Africa is actually the next major part of their history i'm working on. it just needs a wider array of supplemental material to back it up (like some of the minor powers and such in the region), so it is taking awhile.

i don't intend to give my EBSIS a strong space program.. mostly was thinking a kind of 'orbit guard' using converted zent shuttles and landing craft carrying specially modified destroids... but that mostly as a debris removal service to prevent major chunks from hitting ebsis lands.

it is just really hard to justify a major space presence when we know the ASC has that huge fleet. (plus, in mine the EBSIS does not remain in an antagonistic stance with the UEG.. eventually a settlement is worked out, one of the stipulations of which would be regulations on 'WMD's'..including space navies. basically the UEG wanting to keep a monopoly on combat starships in Sol space, giving them a weapon the EBSIS doesn't have should the treaties fall apart. i might consider giving them a few converted Zent Scouts or maybe a few scratch built 'black projects' in violation of treaty.. depends on what i can come up with story wise)

I have the 'EBSIS' helping the UEDF/ASC from eradicating the last Zent strongholds on Earth (in my universe the Zents control parts or South America, Africa and the most of the Indian subcontinent), specifically the last two.

As for an orbital fleet, yes the EBSIS has nothing in size compared to the ASC's (really just refurbished zent warships). So it is small, but they do have a colony on Mars, and through espionage end up knowing the location of 'Garden Worlds' the UEG has chosen to colonize. Thus a few months after a UEG colony is established an EBSIS colony fleet/group shows up an dlands elsewhere on the colony planet. The only thing that stops the UEG colony defense forces from being aggressive is the threat that any conflict on a colony world may start a conflict on Earth.

Now I thought it might be interesting if the 'EBSIS' requested a fleet of their own to be included in the UEEF fleet that leaves in 2018 (I have UEEF fleets leaving Earth in 2015, 2017, 2018. and 2022), so I have that occurring. Of course after a near break out of WWIV in 2023 the EBSIS contingent within the UEEF returns to Earth, with 25% of the personnel requesting asylum to/and remain with the UEEF.

In regards to tech, the EBSIS is maybe 3-5 years tech wise behind the UEG on Earth. This allows their mecha and equipment to be an actual threat to the ASC instead of mooks like most GM's would have them be (my players can attest to the fact that there are no 'real' mooks in my PBP games).

In the end I don't see the EBSIS in an antagonistic stance against the UEG. The two governments just have different philosophical views, as such there is much the to Gov'ts don't agree on. Like you, I have the UEG assuming every nation-state would fall under their control. A number didn't and either joined the EBSIS, or remained separate of either Gov't.

What about using the Zent Striker Battloid from RotM 2nd ed as an original EBSIS design reverse engineered from MPA and FPA

i'm not sure what i want to do with the Striker.. it is an interesting bland of styles that doesn't quite fit anywhere.

i probably could make it a EBSIS unit, though it doesn't really fit the 'blocky' aesthetic of their other units.

it doesn't really fit the ASC's or UEG's style either, though i could probably make it a 'zentraedi auxiliary' unit..

I'm kinda in the same boat. I don't see the style of the ZSB 'fitting' the aesthetics (I hope I spelled that right) of any particular faction in Robotech.

[SRoss]

(provided EBSIS isn't using powered armored suits later on)

i'd love to use powered armor, but aside from this mock up for the US Army, i've not been able to find any real world examples that would fall under fair use. and the 'Micronian PA' from the 1st ed RPG's Strikeforce book has way too many UEG design elements to it. (it's obviously in the liniage that led to the Cyclone, it uses a UEG fighter helmet design, etc)
to be honest i've had similar issues regarding body armor.. i don't like the old RPG's EBSIS armor (too Darth Vader-ish, make it looks like part of an 'evil empire' as a result), and there are not many other options to pick from.

Have you considered, instead of a full suit of body armour, a partial suit of strategically positioned plates over an anti-ballistic fabric. Sort of like the body armour worn by characters in Valkyria Chronicles, but more modern looking? At least for the local militias or regular troops, with an ASC derived full suit for the prestige units.

[Chris0013]

Can you replace the helmet on the Micronian Power Armor with the helmet from the Tornado Battle Bike? Instead of mini missiles the arms would have 40mm grenades.

Same with the old EBSIS plate armor....use the more generic helmet from the Tornado.

[glitterboy2098]

(provided EBSIS isn't using powered armored suits later on)

i'd love to use powered armor, but aside from this mock up for the US Army, i've not been able to find any real world examples that would fall under fair use. and the 'Micronian PA' from the 1st ed RPG's Strikeforce book has way too many UEG design elements to it. (it's obviously in the liniage that led to the Cyclone, it uses a UEG fighter helmet design, etc)
to be honest i've had similar issues regarding body armor.. i don't like the old RPG's EBSIS armor (too Darth Vader-ish, make it looks like part of an 'evil empire' as a result), and there are not many other options to pick from.

Have you considered, instead of a full suit of body armour, a partial suit of strategically positioned plates over an anti-ballistic fabric. Sort of like the body armour worn by characters in Valkyria Chronicles, but more modern looking? At least for the local militias or regular troops, with an ASC derived full suit for the prestige units.

actually i'm planning on using some of the high protection armor spun out of the Future Combat Systems program (stuff that looks like advanced versions of the current Interceptor gear), as 'interm' armor for the 2010's/early 2020's.. fluffed as using armored cloth and MDC inserts to provide low MDC/high SDC protection. enough to stop a few shots from most anti-infantry weapons at least

[jedi078]

actually i'm planning on using some of the high protection armor spun out of the Future Combat Systems program (stuff that looks like advanced versions of the current Interceptor gear), as 'interm' armor for the 2010's/early 2020's.. fluffed as using armored cloth and MDC inserts to provide low MDC/high SDC protection. enough to stop a few shots from most anti-infantry weapons at least

In my Robotech game set in 2013-14 the mecha pilots wear MDC 'flack vests' which are roughly based on the armor from the old Strike Force book. A PC has yet to actually need his/her vest, but it's better to have it and never need to use it then to not have the vest and really need it.

[Jefffar]

Well we have 25mm cannons in the game already, for comparison with the Bushmaster and the 105mm gun on the Spartas uses the same basic model designation as the 105mm on an M60 or M1 tank, so we know how that would fair.

The BMP-1's 73mm is essentially a recoil-less rifle, or essentially a mini-missile launcher.

[glitterboy2098]

minor change done. thanks to the help of some people at the Secret projects Forum, who helped with research into exactly where things are built, i've switched the Komsomolesk freehold to the Irkutsk freehold.. since the Su-27 and derivatives are/were built in Irkutsk.

however my other research says it's only at the KNAAPO facility in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. further investigation is ongoing, reversion will occur if needed.

[glitterboy2098]

well, further research backed up KNAAPO's claim of being the only builder of Su-27's and derivitaives.. the people at secret projects seem to have given me old (or perhaps just unverified) info.

so settled on the 'Amur Freehold' since it sounds better.