How do you deal with Power Characters

[magictiger]

Hi Guys,
How do you deal with Powerful Characters that players want to make or have made on their own? When I say powerful characters, I mean races that have a lot of MDC and/or alot of abilities and powers. And characters that especially use powers that have been taken from Heroes unlimited.

Im about to give up on rpg's all together. As a player I don't like to play those types of characters. Most of mine are human with either some magic or relies on a robot or pa. I feel over shadowed by those characters. As a GM I keep getting over-ruled by them, cuz we take turns being GM and they think everything should be a group decision on my game and the type of characters and equipment I allow in.

Thanks guys.

[Killer Cyborg]

If they'll pose problems for the campaign/adventure, I don't allow them in the first place.

For powerful characters with high MDC armor, the repair costs keep things balanced.
For powerful characters who are MDC beings with bio-regeneration, that's tougher. They can be taken out with non-damaging spells like Magic Net, though.

[Bill]

I just nerfed a PC's MDC as it happens. The guy wanted to play a Phase World Phantom, which would have given him more MDC than anything else in the group by a lot, plus significant invulnerability and the ability to inflict massive damage via energy attacks or supernatural strength, and shapeshifting, and a few other things. Rather than sut the guy down entirely and make him pick something a little more in line with what the rest of the group is playing with, I just cut the class's MDC by 90% and slowed the progression of its main energy blast by half. Essentially, I downgraded the character from an all around badass with virtually no weaknesses to a relatively fragile adventurer who has to work as part of the group or risk destruction. While the player wasn't happy about the downgrade, he accepted my decision because he is still excited by the character's other abilities.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Get a copy of rifts man hunter and use the mulka on them.

[nilgravity]

This sounds like three different problems to me. Three different solutions
1. If you are taking turns running the game, and that isn't working for you- run a different campaign when it's your turn so the others don't have a say in what you do on your turn. Have them play as different characters. You can make it tied in to the other campaign if you like titilating them with something the other players could get excited about (maybe these characters are hired by the main characters for a side mission to bring something back for the core group). Make all the characters yourself (make enough for everybody to have one plus a couple extras), make them all interesting to play, I've never had a player complain about a character being too weak if they are fun to play.

2 If you are worried about over powered players when you're running the game (and the first solution won't work)- make powers less relevant when it's your turn to run the game. Give them a murder mystery or suggest one of the party members is a traitor (you can recruit one of the players or just turn them on each other). There are different game experiences than just combat. Make the game about being clever not powerful. One way to do that is play against a strength of a character. For example if they can see invisible. have someone they couldn't see shoot them using a banked shot, or camouflage of some sort. My players were always more afraid of my weird crap from left field than anything our other GM threw at them even though I rarely killed players.

3 If your character isn't fun for you- Figure out how to reboot him to be more fun. You can mock the other players power levels by playing your character as bill paxton's character in Aliens "Game over man" or focus on skills your character has that the rest of the group doesn't or take on a personal quest/purpose/goal that makes your character more interesting for you and the group. Failing that you can always munchkin up. If your character is a guy in power armor you can always get juicer augmentations to enhance your ability to operate in power armor (it's in Juicer Uprising) and then get better power armor upgrade/enchant what you currently have. Hell buy a slave or Robot bodyguard.

Bonus Suggestion
Find another group to play with occasionally and either bring what you learn from the other group with or jump ship entirely. It occurred to me while writing the other 3 tips that your friends might just be pricks.

[Drakenred®™©]

Sounds like you found the munchkin brigade.

Honestly the best advice is Find another group to play with.

[Icefalcon]

This sounds like three different problems to me. Three different solutions
1. If you are taking turns running the game, and that isn't working for you- run a different campaign when it's your turn so the others don't have a say in what you do on your turn. Have them play as different characters. You can make it tied in to the other campaign if you like titilating them with something the other players could get excited about (maybe these characters are hired by the main characters for a side mission to bring something back for the core group). Make all the characters yourself (make enough for everybody to have one plus a couple extras), make them all interesting to play, I've never had a player complain about a character being too weak if they are fun to play.

I think this is the best idea for when you GM your group. Just run a different game not tied to the main group.

[Nightmask]

There's no need to quit RPG's just because your group is composed of intellectually flaccid types. I've played in several groups like that and dumped them, then went and found a new group. It took a while sometimes, but I'd rather wait and game with cool players than waste my time with a bunch of power munchkins. You can, too.

There's no call for speaking derogatorily about the other players in his group, they simply have different desires in what they want to play which doesn't even remotely make them 'intellectually flaccid'. He just needs to look at why he feels overshadowed when he's playing a normal human and the others feel like playing something more powerful and see how things can be viewed in a more positive light.

[Mack]

There's no call for speaking derogatorily about the other players in his group, they simply have different desires in what they want to play which doesn't even remotely make them 'intellectually flaccid'.

What business is it of yours?

He just needs to look at why he feels overshadowed when he's playing a normal human and the others feel like playing something more powerful and see how things can be viewed in a more positive light.

How do you know what he wants?

Keep to the topic at hand. Not each other.

[Glistam]

Power Characters. If you're "stuck" with them then you need some power threats. Instead of one enemy they can gang up on, face them off against many - it doesn't have to be a super powerful eneemy. Wild Psi-Stalkers hunt in groups. Grigleapers (from WB14) hunt in packs of 4D4. Even an adult dragon might have an unexpected mate. To chalenge a group like that, numbers are the way to go.

Alternatively, give them missions where they have to do more then just "beat the badguys." Maybe there's an out of control forest fire about to engulf a small town. Maybe they need to escort/protect some NPC's into somewhere dangerous? If they're magic/supernatural based, give them a tech based puzzle (computer hacking, repair, etc). If they're tech based, give tham a magic/psionic based puzzle (item identification, creature stalking/research, etc).

You also have te very real choice to NOT challenge them. A pair of Vagabond bandits attempt to rob them. A pack of wild S.D.C. dogs smell them cooking dinner and decide they want it. A small gang of Juicer Wannabe's try to intimidate and make trouble with them. Power Characters live in the same world as everyone else - just because they're "powerful" doesn't mean a City Rat can't break into their room while they sleep and steal their credits or something/anything else they think is valuable. Give them a sampling of the same "slice of life" ordinary day kinds of things that"normal" beings gave to deal with.

[flatline]

Parties that are used to just powering through the opposition just need a wakeup call. Create an antagonist that they can't really hurt. It doesn't even matter if it can hurt them, just make it look threatening so they focus on it and not any minions it has with it. By the third encounter where the "bad guy" gets away even though they threw everything they had at it, they will have either quit the game or they'll start trying to think of non-brute force solutions.

If you're a player with a character that is below the average power level of the rest of the party, then you should find something that your character is good at that the other characters don't overshadow you in and find ways to make that ability pertinent to the campaign. It might be worth discussing this with the GM. He might be helpful is you make him aware of your unhappiness.

--flatline

[Marrowlight]

I kinda want to hear a lil more background from the OP before I weigh in - this story isn't a full meal yet, more like an amuse-bouche.

[ShadowLogan]

Hi Guys,
How do you deal with Powerful Characters that players want to make or have made on their own? When I say powerful characters, I mean races that have a lot of MDC and/or alot of abilities and powers. And characters that especially use powers that have been taken from Heroes unlimited.

Im about to give up on rpg's all together. As a player I don't like to play those types of characters. Most of mine are human with either some magic or relies on a robot or pa. I feel over shadowed by those characters. As a GM I keep getting over-ruled by them, cuz we take turns being GM and they think everything should be a group decision on my game and the type of characters and equipment I allow in.

Thanks guys.

One way is to create situations where those powerful characters are either a liability or their abilities don't have the same impact that a straight up fight would offer. Create situation where the have "lost" or denied access to their special abilities (or even have encounters with forces that can negate them) every once in awhile.

Put encounters that don't necessarily qualify as even a Minor Danger/Threat from their POV, so XP reward is minimal even if they defeat it.

As for the rotating GM thing it depends on how it is set up. On some issues, yeah I can see wanting group consensus for house rules. If the rotating GM thing is part of single campaign where you take turns w/n it, you probably do have to go with the group. If it is rotating GM campaigns where each is separate, then I have to disagree with them as the GM you could limit what is available for selection.

[Killer Cyborg]

Good post, Saurvon.

[Athos]

Hi Guys,
How do you deal with Powerful Characters that players want to make or have made on their own? When I say powerful characters, I mean races that have a lot of MDC and/or alot of abilities and powers. And characters that especially use powers that have been taken from Heroes unlimited.

Im about to give up on rpg's all together. As a player I don't like to play those types of characters. Most of mine are human with either some magic or relies on a robot or pa. I feel over shadowed by those characters. As a GM I keep getting over-ruled by them, cuz we take turns being GM and they think everything should be a group decision on my game and the type of characters and equipment I allow in.

Thanks guys.

Well, if it is a group decision, and you guys agree to allow anything (which is insane in my opinion) then you either live up to your end of the group, or you don't. The reason allowing anything is insane is that it takes a very experienced and competent GM to run a game like that and make it fun. I personally have never seen one last a year, and they typically go stale much sooner than that.

There is nothing wrong with deciding not to GM... just let your friends know you aren't willing to GM characters you don't approve of.

Personally I would be honest and up front about it, let them know why you object, tell them clearly that you are not going to GM those characters, and then stick to it. A friend of mine has a different approach he uses to "teach" munchkins how to RP. He goes passive aggressive on them, and by that I mean he makes weak encounters with little to no treasure. After a dozen encounters where the PCs are not challenged, they tend to give up and go along with his system, either that or find a new GM.

Up to you the approach you take, but please, don't be a victim.... especially as the GM, take a stand and stick to your guns.

[SmilingJack]

I think its a two-fold approach

1: establishing clear character creation guide lines, and limiting players from Min maxing character attributes, and selecting weapons, skills, or even MecHa tHat unbalances the game

2: and I think this is one of the more overlooked aspects, being judicious about awarding experience points, new power armor, wealth, and weapons to players

often times as a game master you want to reward good gameplay with sensational and significant items or abilities, unfortunately in our generosity we haNd our players the very elements that feed into thEir power hungry gameplay style and eventually throw off the whole game,

instead of limiting the problem we end up Exacerbating it

[nilgravity]

You also have te very real choice to NOT challenge them. A pair of Vagabond bandits attempt to rob them. A pack of wild S.D.C. dogs smell them cooking dinner and decide they want it. A small gang of Juicer Wannabe's try to intimidate and make trouble with them. Power Characters live in the same world as everyone else - just because they're "powerful" doesn't mean a City Rat can't break into their room while they sleep and steal their credits or something/anything else they think is valuable. Give them a sampling of the same "slice of life" ordinary day kinds of things that"normal" beings gave to deal with.

that's a much clearer explanation than what I was going for

[Premier]

Hi Guys,
How do you deal with Powerful Characters that players want to make or have made on their own? When I say powerful characters, I mean races that have a lot of MDC and/or alot of abilities and powers. And characters that especially use powers that have been taken from Heroes unlimited.

Im about to give up on rpg's all together. As a player I don't like to play those types of characters. Most of mine are human with either some magic or relies on a robot or pa. I feel over shadowed by those characters. As a GM I keep getting over-ruled by them, cuz we take turns being GM and they think everything should be a group decision on my game and the type of characters and equipment I allow in.

Thanks guys.

Hey Magictiger,

I would like to say that there are some very fruitful ideas & suggestions posted to deal with a formidable group. However, there are also some key pieces of information that you listed that makes it worth considering that you might have accepted a laced deck of cards sort to speak. With the “Group” having a democracy to overrule any and very GM, this is a group safety net that can overrule a GM’s creativity and overall control and flow of campaign should the team feel hard pressed. I get why this may have been selected but I don’t agree with its substance.

Now based on what you have described with the type of players you are contending with I would like to add a few suggestions of my own.

First, let me say, that I have successfully GMed a campaign of high powered cosmic players for over 10 years, so I can pull from those experiences and suggest a few possibilities that you might want to consider.

1. First and foremost, since you and your group are in control (and this is irreversible for any conducting GM), then play along with them, no against them. This will help alleviate the feeling that it’s you against them and vice versa. With this issue out of the way, whatever happens to them also affects your character, favorite NPCs, good or bad. etc.

2. I really have learned that powerful characters love who they are, what they have accomplished and hate when that gets shaken up. I have had characters “accidentally” get there powers/abilities mixed up or lost among the team not knowing who had what or how to even utilize each other’s abilities. This right here was something that as a GM, I milked to the fullest. It went on for years as player still suspected that certain characters were sand banging and hadn’t given up all their “stuff,” back to the rightful owner(s). I would use this, as the story unfolded, having other characters or pieces of mysterious evidence surface that suggest that in actuality, this was never that character’s ability and that it was designed for some new being to awaken and possibly this player is that being instead of a the original layer who possessed the ability. Characters who enjoy power and munchkinsm, will be VERY competitive to be that sleeper who awakens. This strife I milked even more. With ancient followers of the original player surfacing and taking their side that he or she is the rightful heir to that ability and willing to serve by that character’s side to prove who is the true host. Sometimes this would even divide the team of players which I continued to milk of course. It gets worse when a crafty, stealthy NPC steals something of value, especially if is powers.

2. As stated before, you must find what pushes the characters/Players. Even being so powerful there is an inner drive that you can tap into. Find out what is that character’s Achilles heal. For most of my players, it was their relationships with significant others. Not some generic wife or girlfriend who was away or left back at home/base, etc. No… it was the bonding and growing relationship that they built, earned and established with attractions while in the field. Once those bonds become true, and they new certain respectable and or attractive NPCs wanted them, they fought to secure and protect those bonds. I used this. I would give them their glorious moments where they would be like Max Sterling and Miria joined together in the battlefield, before I seized the opportunity to snatch their Miria and hold her captive or have some formidable antagonist NPC torture her. It was worse if his antagonist was somebody that the Players loathed, or thought was dead. I had a player that was married and they had a child with such an ideal NPC. The star child was kidnapped, and man…..talked about cosmic warfare, lol. It was even worse when players fought each other. One player literally sent a notorious assassin (NPC called “Cutthroat”) after another player. When Cutthroat couldn’t reach the evasive Player, he went after the next best thing, that player’s wife. Not only did he go after her, She put up a historic fight but he was successful with a disintegration garrote and decapitated her, and stole the head as a trophy. Now mind you, this was a wife that the player actually bio--engineered after his very fancy. So she had the looks he fancied, the body, the fighting skill and devotion to him. They were building an empire together. They had the works and when she was robbed from him, no amount of power would satisfy his thirst for vengeance, only he had no clue who had ordered the hit, but he knew it stemmed from someone within the group. This players personal mission while doing the campaign was to find out who did it. The player began tracing the clues while still working along the other players when necessary. It was epic and it took 3 “real” years for him to discover the culprit.
See I had people write notes and give them to me if they wanted to do something that they didn’t want the other players to know, of if I felt it was something only they were exposed to and that the other players wouldn’t be exposed to seeing or hearing, then they shouldn’t know about it. This always helped as well.

3. Also as stated before, need to remind them that they aren’t the biggest fish in the sea. I had plenty of monsters, characters, dimensions and anomalies to remind and humble players who thought they were invulnerable and so powerful. Sometimes it doesn’t always have to be a fight either. I never will forget the fear that the players had when they thought they crossed over into another dimension and were fighting and dominating the beings there, until the players learned that only part of them and crossed over, and in fact while they were in this dimension, their bodies were left outside lying vulnerable with no host’s will to activate or summon powers or supernatural abilities to generate forcefields or other protective powers. They had to work as a team to desperately get out of this “Dream World” and they feared going back. More importantly they feared the ruler of this dimension who sought to hunt them and bring them back. It can be consequences and undesirable responsibilities or accountability of those powers that begin to weigh on players. A player who quickly kills simply to conquer or defeat an adversary may not predict that they just killed some father of a daughter who now has hired elite assassins to come for him, or maybe she is training herself to exact the revenge. Maybe the adversary’s beliefs and reasons, which in turn could be revealed to be the true justifiable reasons worth fighting for. Let alone if the players are fighting for some perceived cause and they learn that they have been deceived only are getting more power for some other diabolic user and leader. Nobody likes the feeling of being a pawn, no matter how powerful they are. This makes some players slow down with their actions to learn what lies behind the words and details.

IF your Players want a challenge, let them feel free to them try taking on one of the creatures that Slappy & I based a Rifter#44 article off of one of my cosmic games; It will surely humble them. Its called a “Voracious Absorber.” If you want to try it, just PM me for the write up.

You can also check out this thread to get an idea of a minor watered down version:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=99865&hilit=voracious+absorber

[arthurfallz]

I have faced this in a different system. I wanted a more street level, grim and gritty game. My players kept insisting to use the game to drop kick gods to the moon (Exalted). It was frustrating as hell for me, and killed my creativity. I, also, almost quit Role-playing all together over it.

In the end, it's not easy, but either adapt to that style, or refuse to take part in it.

There are plenty of excellent posts here, and a variety of advice. My key point, which applies to all of these, is that you need to make a decision and stick to it on how to handle your unhappy gaming experience.

[flatline]

I have faced this in a different system. I wanted a more street level, grim and gritty game. My players kept insisting to use the game to drop kick gods to the moon (Exalted). It was frustrating as hell for me, and killed my creativity. I, also, almost quit Role-playing all together over it.

In the end, it's not easy, but either adapt to that style, or refuse to take part in it.

There are plenty of excellent posts here, and a variety of advice. My key point, which applies to all of these, is that you need to make a decision and stick to it on how to handle your unhappy gaming experience.

If the players are excited about playing powerful characters and you try to force them into a low powered campaign, there will be no happiness. As a GM, if you want to play a certain kind of game, you need to "sell it" to the players so that they're excited about it and want to play it. It's all about setting the proper expectations at the beginning of the campaign.

--flatline

[Vrykolas2k]

Most of the stuff even in Rifts has something to balance it out, including the ability of the GM to say "No".
I allow almost anything in my campaigns (as long as it isn't NPC only, or something I consider retarded, like Floopers)... every type of character has its place.
The only thing I don't allow is someone to start out as a Cosmo-Knight. I have them start as a Fallen, to prove they can handle the power, and allow them to redeem themselves back if they role-play it well.

[nilgravity]

This might be a dangerous idea to put out there: Often in a group there is one player the others dick with, if this is the case, it usually isn't a big deal. Most of the time they are only doing it because they can get away with it. Give them a spanking and it'll earn their respect. Most of the time.

If the other suggestions don't work for you you could try working it into the plot that one party member's powers are transferred to other players. If you want to be a little more heavy handed transfer the powers of two of the members to the third. If done with the right degree of subtlety the players will give you more props as a GM and teach them the danger of letting the popular vote have the final say.


RELATED
To all the GMs that want to limit power levels. I do veto characters if they don't fit into my game. But if I do I keep in mind that the character wants to play that and try to find a future campaign to integrate that character in. Relating back to this thread the group can be separated giving each guy a unit to command. That way you're only dealing with one overpowered player at a time. If you guys are taking turns with the campaign you can even run flashback missions that take place before the group got together.

[Alrik Vas]

One thing that i find funny to do in Rifts is to send the PC's to a low magic universe so all the guys who have magic, HU powers or are supernatural terrors of holy-crap-ness suddenly are SDC and all their best tricks do SDC damage. This basically scares the hell out of them and they start demanding spare suits of armor from the guys who are tech reliant.

Ahhh...good times. Of course you don't stick them there for ever, just long enough to make them sweat.

[flatline]

One thing that i find funny to do in Rifts is to send the PC's to a low magic universe so all the guys who have magic, HU powers or are supernatural terrors of holy-crap-ness suddenly are SDC and all their best tricks do SDC damage. This basically scares the hell out of them and they start demanding spare suits of armor from the guys who are tech reliant.

Ahhh...good times. Of course you don't stick them there for ever, just long enough to make them sweat.

In reference to the bolded text above, if your best trick is measured by the damage it does, it's not a very good trick.

--flatline

[Alrik Vas]

Fair to say. I meant magical/superpowered/supernatural attacks that deal damage.

Some people, i dunno, maybe they're crazy, actually rely on depleting something's MDC/SDC/HP to defeat them.

[Killer Cyborg]

I have faced this in a different system. I wanted a more street level, grim and gritty game. My players kept insisting to use the game to drop kick gods to the moon (Exalted). It was frustrating as hell for me, and killed my creativity. I, also, almost quit Role-playing all together over it.

In the end, it's not easy, but either adapt to that style, or refuse to take part in it.

There are plenty of excellent posts here, and a variety of advice. My key point, which applies to all of these, is that you need to make a decision and stick to it on how to handle your unhappy gaming experience.

If the players are excited about playing powerful characters and you try to force them into a low powered campaign, there will be no happiness. As a GM, if you want to play a certain kind of game, you need to "sell it" to the players so that they're excited about it and want to play it. It's all about setting the proper expectations at the beginning of the campaign.

I mostly agree.

But the term "powerful" is relative, especially in Rifts.
If a player wants to be "powerful" in the sense of being able to throw mountains around, that's one thing. Pretty much the thing that you describe.
A lot of the time, though, what players really want is to be "powerful" in the sense that they want to be able to kick a lot of butt in combat, and to do things that most other people around them can't do.
And their ability to achieve and play out that kind of power depends on what exactly the other people round them can do.

If you have a 1st level Wilderness Scout, for example, who has Huntsman Armor (45 MDC), a Wilk's 447 Laser Rifle (3d6 MD, single shot only), and a couple of minor psychic powers (Telepathy and Object Read), your character might be a backwoods pansy who's going to die early, OR he might be a badass frontiersman who's a virtual demigod.
It just depends on how the GM stocks the world around him.
If the GM stocks the world with PC-level OCCs/RCCs, with PC-level mega-damage equipment, where psychic powers are common and expected, and the GM has the local flora and fauna consist of mega-damage supernatural creatures... the character's not going to be powerful.
If the GM stocks the world with low-powered NPCs, with low-powered NPC OCCs/RCCs, with little to no mega-damage equipment, where psychic powers are rare and unexpected, and the GM has the local flora and fauna consist of primarily SDC beings, then the character is going to be quite powerful, powerful enough to make many players feel almost munchkin playing him.
Plenty powerful enough to make a lot of power-seeking players quite happy, even though the power level overall is quite low compared to how the game could be run.

[Killer Cyborg]

if your best trick is measured by the damage it does, it's not a very good trick.

Very well-said!

[random_username]

Not necessarily answers but these might be able to put some problematic issues into perspective.

Check out the intro "Transitioning" and "Part One". Skip the rest unless truly bored hehe. Mostly a power scale/player experience categorization thing.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=129640


Also meshing it with this might help as well. Kind of a summary of issues that can begin to cause problems for folks.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=132650

[magictiger]

thanks guys for ur advice.

to some of u that said i should find a new group, that wouldnt be a good idea. the nearest hobby place isnt really close unfortunately. dont know any other way around that. and these guys r my friends too, but they test my patience alot.

[nilgravity]

You can also try playing online with people to learn some new tricks your regular group hasn't thought of yet.

[Alrik Vas]

thanks guys for ur advice.

to some of u that said i should find a new group, that wouldnt be a good idea. the nearest hobby place isnt really close unfortunately. dont know any other way around that. and these guys r my friends too, but they test my patience alot.

That's tough. I went through that with many of my friends as well. People grow up though, you just have to keep trying. Best of luck to you. /salute

[Carl Gleba]

Hi Guys,
How do you deal with Powerful Characters that players want to make or have made on their own? When I say powerful characters, I mean races that have a lot of MDC and/or alot of abilities and powers. And characters that especially use powers that have been taken from Heroes unlimited.

Im about to give up on rpg's all together. As a player I don't like to play those types of characters. Most of mine are human with either some magic or relies on a robot or pa. I feel over shadowed by those characters. As a GM I keep getting over-ruled by them, cuz we take turns being GM and they think everything should be a group decision on my game and the type of characters and equipment I allow in.
Thanks guys.

Ok, my group had this growing pain many years ago. I just sat them down and said alternating GM on the same group won't work. We all want to play and we all want to GM and were screwing up long term plot devices that GM's were introducing. So each player who wants to GM runs one group at a time. So when we rotate its a different game with a different group of players. This worked out pretty well and allows us to run and play many different groups. One GM will run for as long as they want and when they need a break another GM will run another game until we return to the other.

In my last game I told the players I wanted to run a dimension hopping group of d-raiders. Go ahead and make your dream characters. Just about all were powerful M.D. types. No problem cause I told them to expect a challenge equal to or greater than the power of your characters. This also allowed me to take the GM gloves off and put them up against things challenges that I would not put a mortal group up against. I was also able to take the to places like Hades, the great machine and other hell filled dimensions and knew that the players would have a challenge and not run rampant. We even did the Tolkeen war. When they faced CS troops they faced some that were high level, some that were special forces, cyborgs or juicers. Some battles they walked all over them and in some they just barely made it by the skin of their teeth and the roll of the dice.

Hope this helps.

[say652]

One word an npc Nemesis, works even better if his/her arch enemy is friends with the rest of the player group. Tinheads arch rival Doug walks in to the cantina, Rosey the mage smiles, Pallax the knight shout huzah!, the crazie jeff fist bumps him and the borg and juicer slowly walk a circle glaring hatefully at each other. "TinHead" sneer "Doug" low growl, " Your just mad over the last time I whipped your stupid metal hide".......... Jeff steps in between "Hey guys I bought jello-shots!"

[Mech-Viper Prime]

My number two rule.
Any power level will be matched, you bring godlings be prepared to encounter GODS.

[The Dark Elf]

Hi Guys,
How do you deal with Powerful Characters that players want to make or have made on their own? When I say powerful characters, I mean races that have a lot of MDC and/or alot of abilities and powers. And characters that especially use powers that have been taken from Heroes unlimited.

Im about to give up on rpg's all together. As a player I don't like to play those types of characters. Most of mine are human with either some magic or relies on a robot or pa. I feel over shadowed by those characters. As a GM I keep getting over-ruled by them, cuz we take turns being GM and they think everything should be a group decision on my game and the type of characters and equipment I allow in.

Thanks guys.

Easiest thing to do is to say what I do to the players. IF they want to pplay a powerful character - no problem but; not this adventure. Everyone play a human for this one and I'll write an adventure where everyone gets to play the uber characters (set in SA). that way everyone gets to enjoy it but the GM has an easier and more enjoyable time. Incidentally just because everyone is powerful doesnt mean ALL the bad guys should be. The players want to play uber powerful OCCs so they can trounce some baddies. That is ok if they are enjoying it but will soon get boring so watch for the balance.

[flatline]

My number two rule.
Any power level will be matched, you bring godlings be prepared to encounter GODS.

Perhaps I misunderstood. When I read the word "matched", I assumed you meant that you would create opposition on the same power level as the PCs. But then in your next sentence, you show that you consider GODS to be appropriate opposition for godlings even though GODS are at a power level far beyond that of godlings.

So when you said "matched", did you really mean "exceed by orders of magnitude"?

--flatline

[Mech-Viper Prime]

My number two rule.
Any power level will be matched, you bring godlings be prepared to encounter GODS.

Perhaps I misunderstood. When I read the word "matched", I assumed you meant that you would create opposition on the same power level as the PCs. But then in your next sentence, you show that you consider GODS to be appropriate opposition for godlings even though GODS are at a power level far beyond that of godlings.

So when you said "matched", did you really mean "exceed by orders of magnitude"?

--flatline

I create opposition for them to overcome, to challenge them,even if in reality they are way out of their league, they didn't seem to notice or really care. We always had a blast.

[flatline]

My number two rule.
Any power level will be matched, you bring godlings be prepared to encounter GODS.

Perhaps I misunderstood. When I read the word "matched", I assumed you meant that you would create opposition on the same power level as the PCs. But then in your next sentence, you show that you consider GODS to be appropriate opposition for godlings even though GODS are at a power level far beyond that of godlings.

So when you said "matched", did you really mean "exceed by orders of magnitude"?

--flatline

I create opposition for them to overcome, to challenge them,even if in reality they are way out of their league, they didn't seem to notice or really care. We always had a blast.

Fair enough. We often did one-shot sessions against crazy overpowered opposition. Can be lots of fun.

--flatline

[jaymz]

Before I run ANY campaign I set the guidelines. If I am planning to do a cyberpunk like game inside Chi-Town, sorry I am NOT going to let you play that hatchling dragon no matter how much you want too...Conversely if I am running high level, take out gods, type of game I will strongly suggest they not play a human rogue scholar etc and warn them ahead of time they will likely die early on. I will not pull my punches just because a player wants to play what is essentially the weak link.

Honestly a lot of this boils down to so many GM's "allow" anything and they won't say no to anything because whiney-ass player number 2 will cry and go home adn teh GM doesn't want to lose a player. Unfortunately as Palladium fans we can't just "let" players walk since there are so few of us around anymore so it's sort of a catch 22 in some respects.

All you can do is set the guidelines. Stick to them. If the players don't like it, just opt out of running the game and play. You aren't there to just entertain them and be stuck not having fun yourself. Simplest solution is to not run the game. Just play.

That being said, if you ENJOY GMing, generally speaking, then you have to make it known what your guidelines and that they either follow them or don't play. It sucks and some players will whine and whine and cry and moan but if they are TRULY interested in playing, they'll work with you. If they only whine and fight you, their only interest is in being the badass and they don't give a damn about YOUR enjoyment or anyone else's.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

My number two rule.
Any power level will be matched, you bring godlings be prepared to encounter GODS.

Perhaps I misunderstood. When I read the word "matched", I assumed you meant that you would create opposition on the same power level as the PCs. But then in your next sentence, you show that you consider GODS to be appropriate opposition for godlings even though GODS are at a power level far beyond that of godlings.

So when you said "matched", did you really mean "exceed by orders of magnitude"?

--flatline

I create opposition for them to overcome, to challenge them,even if in reality they are way out of their league, they didn't seem to notice or really care. We always had a blast.

Fair enough. We often did one-shot sessions against crazy overpowered opposition. Can be lots of fun.

--flatline

my endless adventure always vary in power levels, giving each character a time to step up and be the one who saved the day.

[Icefalcon]

Before I run ANY campaign I set the guidelines. If I am planning to do a cyberpunk like game inside Chi-Town, sorry I am NOT going to let you play that hatchling dragon no matter how much you want too...Conversely if I am running high level, take out gods, type of game I will strongly suggest they not play a human rogue scholar etc and warn them ahead of time they will likely die early on. I will not pull my punches just because a player wants to play what is essentially the weak link.

Honestly a lot of this boils down to so many GM's "allow" anything and they won't say no to anything because whiney-ass player number 2 will cry and go home adn teh GM doesn't want to lose a player. Unfortunately as Palladium fans we can't just "let" players walk since there are so few of us around anymore so it's sort of a catch 22 in some respects.

All you can do is set the guidelines. Stick to them. If the players don't like it, just opt out of running the game and play. You aren't there to just entertain them and be stuck not having fun yourself. Simplest solution is to not run the game. Just play.

That being said, if you ENJOY GMing, generally speaking, then you have to make it known what your guidelines and that they either follow them or don't play. It sucks and some players will whine and whine and cry and moan but if they are TRULY interested in playing, they'll work with you. If they only whine and fight you, their only interest is in being the badass and they don't give a damn about YOUR enjoyment or anyone else's.

I agree. If the GM is running a game with a theme, then the players should abide by that and make appropriate characters. However, I believe if the players wish for a totally different game, then they must all agree on it and then the GM can consider changing it unless he cannot think of a any good ideas for adventures.

I have been known to totally change the game theme because the players did not want the one I had in mind. More recently, I have begun to come up with two to five themes and present them to the players, along with any character restrictions, before I start work on one. I will let them choose which one they like and tell them that if they don't like any of those that they can run one themselves.

[jaymz]

That's the perfect example of players, and in this case the gm, working together so everyone has fun and no one trying to be the bad ass.

[Icefalcon]

I took me a while to learn that lesson as a GM.

[Eclipse]

or something I consider retarded, like Floopers

I laughed out loud

[DhAkael]

Ordinary "HUMAN" scale Pc's can be teh awsum, while uber-munchkinoids can suck like vaccuums.
It's all on how the players are able to RP ANNNNNDDDDDD... the dyce-gawds lagresse.
Natural 1's happen as do nat 20's.

I've had below average statted PC's (unarmoured at that) have encounters with supernatural creatures and not only survive, but even come out on top.
How?
The player(s) 1) Used their heads and available materials to enact a plan of action.
2) The dice loved them that day.

Meanwhile the Ubergawd Asgardian Elven psycho-princess homicidal maniac that was ALSO in the game crew, failed by the numbers and nearly got ganked by the same creature(s) more often than not. Ditto with the crazed xenophobic Free-Frog -ahem- Quebeccer Glitter-dude pilot with Physical Prowess stat that could make a Juicer blink.

I think in the O.P. here, it is the fault of the GM not to spread-the-pain evenly and of the players of the ubergawds wanting to wave their phalluses in everyone elses face.

It's not super powers that ruin a game; it's bad GM's and players.
Full stop.
End of line.