Petition for a Rifts Kick-Starter

[Marrowlight]

Personally on this one I would put all the blame on the GM. This sort of thing needs to be house ruled. I allow one shot assassination type kills even when the target is in EBA or is an MDC creature, and the way I balance it is simply once a PC uses that type of ability it is now fair game to be used on the group. Basically a kind of metagame karma. Therefore players only use said skills when completely necessary (necessary either for them to succeed or for their character concept). It's a bit off topic though, just thought I'd put in my 2 cents since it's a fairly interesting discussion

I have a few comments, but I wanted to get an answer from you first...how often have you actually killed people this way?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

No offense, but it sounds like you succeeded in creating your character concept (stealthy sniper) he just failed in his goal.

Sounds more of a failure on the GM's part then a system failure.

[Subjugator]

I would think a sniper in that world that had to shoot at armored or MD opponents would probably have the JTL-7 (I think that's the number...the big laser cannon from south America that does 3D6x10+20 MD). Also, the GI Joe rule sucks.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I would think a sniper in that world that had to shoot at armored or MD opponents would probably have the JTL-7 (I think that's the number...the big laser cannon from south America that does 3D6x10+20 MD). Also, the GI Joe rule sucks.

Yes and no, it's comes down on how the GM uses it, using it for player characters, and main plot NPCs it's works great , for the common foot soldier, then no it shouldn't be use.
But the sniper skill needs to be reworked but that could be done in a issue of rifter, with a few others.

[zaccheus]

Personally on this one I would put all the blame on the GM. This sort of thing needs to be house ruled. I allow one shot assassination type kills even when the target is in EBA or is an MDC creature, and the way I balance it is simply once a PC uses that type of ability it is now fair game to be used on the group. Basically a kind of metagame karma. Therefore players only use said skills when completely necessary (necessary either for them to succeed or for their character concept). It's a bit off topic though, just thought I'd put in my 2 cents since it's a fairly interesting discussion

I have a few comments, but I wanted to get an answer from you first...how often have you actually killed people this way?

Well I haven't actually killed any people, it's just pretend, tee hee. Anyways, I feel it's typically a failure on my part if player characters die except for perhaps some mistake of theirs. I have used assassins against the players before though, and I only used the one shot rules in those games where the rules have been put on the table earlier in the campaign by a player. Only two player characters have actually died from this, and in both cases they had sunaj after them because they thought it'd bee smart to steal from splynn and they thought themselves able to handle it. Clearly they didn't think it through entirely.

I'm not sure what your comments are, but my justifications for allowing one shot kills is that number one it fits with how assassins are expected to work, and number two everything has some kind of weak point or exploit, ie shooting them in the eye/visor. Exceptions would be things like force shields, being inside a robot or vehicle with MDC windows etc.

[earthhawk]

Some people just get lost in the sandbox of rifts and need the narrow path of other popular games. Personally I love the sandbox with little rules
All I need is character creation rules, combat rules and any other rules I may see fit to add it or remove when it's not working for me or slows down the story with because of a rule or two.

I think this is true. Pathfinder character generation feels like you're making a videogame character. Nothing feels open ended. One thing Palladium does well is that when you're playing, you don't feel constrained to an enumerated list of options.

--flatline

I actually find quite the opposite. in Rifts I hate the sense that in the end, most of my characters are going to end up the same. In Pathfinder however, I find great exuberance in the numerous builds that can come out of just a single class (not including any of the delicate arts of multi-classing). In fact, I find that in Rifts I just can't accomplish the character concepts that I want.

What the heck kind of character concepts do you have that can't be accomplished in Rifts...?

Well let me start by clarifying a bit. I can make any character concept work in any game via clever backstory writing and roleplaying, but the question is do the game mechanics actually support my attempts. Say, for example, I wanted to create a stealthy sniper that I could use to eliminate opponents from a good distance without alerting them. First, I need to choose the class that this would best fit with; maybe a CS ranger or a Wilderness Scout (which are pretty much the same thing but that's not the point).Then I choose where my stats go, let's say I have two above 15. Since no attribute actually helps me shoot I choose IQ for the bonus to skills and PP so that I can keep with my concept (even though, like I said, it doesn't actually mean anything). Next, I need to choose the most apparent skills to accomplish my concept: sniper (which is an almost completely useless bonus), concealment (I'm still not entirely sure on how that one works), prowl (which everyone should have all of the time because it's pretty much the most useful skill ever), and hunting for a nice flavor element. I now got to choose my weapon, without looking around too hard let's say it is a 4d6 laser rifle with a 3000 ft range and a stealth ghillie suit. Yay! My character is all built and gosh I hope he does well!

Fast Forward and it's my first time to use my character. I passed all my prowl checks and made it onto a nice hill to set up my nest (using concealment and 20 or so minutes) just outside of an enemy base (let's say 2500 ft away). Time to earn my keep. So I take my aimed called shot (which still results in either no penalty or a -1) and manage to make my to-strike roll against a lone sentry standing a watchtower. "Great! He's dead right?" I say. Not so much, in fact even if my crappy laser rifle had the damage to actually destroy his helmet in one shot, the GI Joe Rule would have saved him. "Darn, well I suppose I will try again". But wait, he has noticed getting shot in the face and has alerted the rest of the base as well as initiated combat (although it isn't really clear when combat is initiated). So I continue to attempt my aimed called shot, eating up all of my attacks that round (because hand to hand assassin is for snipers right?). I miss, he escapes, or I hit and he escapes anyways because I probably just destroyed his armor.

Long story short they eventually spot my nest and pepper me with laser blasts before I have a chance to get out of there. If they don't I have probably abandoned the idea of called shots all together in favor of just blasting away with my rifle.

Now what's really funny (besides how comically bad I am at sniping), is that there are much better classes for doing the same thing. Take the gunfighter for example, he will always have two more attacks than me as well as the normal gunslinger abilities making him better than me at both sniping and fighting. Now that reads "Concept: Failed" to me.

I'm going to respectfully ask that you take this discussion to another forum topic.

[Jay05]

Present a rule to the fans. If 80% or more agree to it include it in a revised/streamlined edition.

Stopped here. I'll finish the rest 'cause you're cool and all, but stopped here because I just had to say - hell to the no. No, no, no, and hell to the no. I 1 billion percent Palladium needs more staff, and I 1 trillion percent believe Kevin needs to loosen the chokehold he has on oversight just a lil to allow for some new voices to put their mark on the world....but the thought of a by committee Palladium Game just fills me with absolute and genuine horror. Love yah man....but hell to the no.

Gotta agree with marrowlight on this...
There is an old adage that applies here.

Too many cooks spoil the soup.

Absolutely!

[Damian Magecraft]

No offense, but it sounds like you succeeded in creating your character concept (stealthy sniper) he just failed in his goal.

Well I wrote a wonderful concept, and you're right in that that was successful. However, the transportation into the actual game had my character failing at what I think is a simple task so that reads as a failed concept to me. Semantics aside though, it is not my fault as a player that sniping doesn't work, it is the fault of the shoddy system mechanics.

Personally on this one I would put all the blame on the GM. This sort of thing needs to be house ruled. I allow one shot assassination type kills even when the target is in EBA or is an MDC creature, and the way I balance it is simply once a PC uses that type of ability it is now fair game to be used on the group. Basically a kind of metagame karma. Therefore players only use said skills when completely necessary (necessary either for them to succeed or for their character concept). It's a bit off topic though, just thought I'd put in my 2 cents since it's a fairly interesting discussion

no its the fault of the player for not waiting for the best moment to shoot. (When the helmet comes off).
A true sniper would have waited for that moment.

[Giant2005]

What the heck kind of character concepts do you have that can't be accomplished in Rifts...?

Well let me start by clarifying a bit. I can make any character concept work in any game via clever backstory writing and roleplaying, but the question is do the game mechanics actually support my attempts. Say, for example, I wanted to create a stealthy sniper that I could use to eliminate opponents from a good distance without alerting them. First, I need to choose the class that this would best fit with; maybe a CS ranger or a Wilderness Scout (which are pretty much the same thing but that's not the point).Then I choose where my stats go, let's say I have two above 15. Since no attribute actually helps me shoot I choose IQ for the bonus to skills and PP so that I can keep with my concept (even though, like I said, it doesn't actually mean anything). Next, I need to choose the most apparent skills to accomplish my concept: sniper (which is an almost completely useless bonus), concealment (I'm still not entirely sure on how that one works), prowl (which everyone should have all of the time because it's pretty much the most useful skill ever), and hunting for a nice flavor element. I now got to choose my weapon, without looking around too hard let's say it is a 4d6 laser rifle with a 3000 ft range and a stealth ghillie suit. Yay! My character is all built and gosh I hope he does well!

Fast Forward and it's my first time to use my character. I passed all my prowl checks and made it onto a nice hill to set up my nest (using concealment and 20 or so minutes) just outside of an enemy base (let's say 2500 ft away). Time to earn my keep. So I take my aimed called shot (which still results in either no penalty or a -1) and manage to make my to-strike roll against a lone sentry standing a watchtower. "Great! He's dead right?" I say. Not so much, in fact even if my crappy laser rifle had the damage to actually destroy his helmet in one shot, the GI Joe Rule would have saved him. "Darn, well I suppose I will try again". But wait, he has noticed getting shot in the face and has alerted the rest of the base as well as initiated combat (although it isn't really clear when combat is initiated). So I continue to attempt my aimed called shot, eating up all of my attacks that round (because hand to hand assassin is for snipers right?). I miss, he escapes, or I hit and he escapes anyways because I probably just destroyed his armor.

Long story short they eventually spot my nest and pepper me with laser blasts before I have a chance to get out of there. If they don't I have probably abandoned the idea of called shots all together in favor of just blasting away with my rifle.

Now what's really funny (besides how comically bad I am at sniping), is that there are much better classes for doing the same thing. Take the gunfighter for example, he will always have two more attacks than me as well as the normal gunslinger abilities making him better than me at both sniping and fighting. Now that reads "Concept: Failed" to me.

I'm going to respectfully ask that you take this discussion to another forum topic.

With all due respect, such posts are far more on topic than anything you have posted in this thread. Your opening post makes no mention of what a possible Rifts revamp would include - without people discussing what a Rifts revamp means in the thread, any poll relating to whether or not it is a good idea is completely meaningless.
Your attempts to prevent such discussions only serve to completely invalidate the entire poll.

As to the sniper thing... You forgot to take the Sharpshooting skill which is very important for a sniper, giving him an extra attack, more combat options and most importantly more accuracy. Also, he should be aware that shooting someone with a helmet on isn't going to do the job. It is his job as a sniper to be patient and wait until he has an opportune moment to get his kill - that means waiting until that helmet has been removed.

[Giant2005]

What the heck kind of character concepts do you have that can't be accomplished in Rifts...?

Well let me start by clarifying a bit. I can make any character concept work in any game via clever backstory writing and roleplaying, but the question is do the game mechanics actually support my attempts. Say, for example, I wanted to create a stealthy sniper that I could use to eliminate opponents from a good distance without alerting them. First, I need to choose the class that this would best fit with; maybe a CS ranger or a Wilderness Scout (which are pretty much the same thing but that's not the point).Then I choose where my stats go, let's say I have two above 15. Since no attribute actually helps me shoot I choose IQ for the bonus to skills and PP so that I can keep with my concept (even though, like I said, it doesn't actually mean anything). Next, I need to choose the most apparent skills to accomplish my concept: sniper (which is an almost completely useless bonus), concealment (I'm still not entirely sure on how that one works), prowl (which everyone should have all of the time because it's pretty much the most useful skill ever), and hunting for a nice flavor element. I now got to choose my weapon, without looking around too hard let's say it is a 4d6 laser rifle with a 3000 ft range and a stealth ghillie suit. Yay! My character is all built and gosh I hope he does well!

Fast Forward and it's my first time to use my character. I passed all my prowl checks and made it onto a nice hill to set up my nest (using concealment and 20 or so minutes) just outside of an enemy base (let's say 2500 ft away). Time to earn my keep. So I take my aimed called shot (which still results in either no penalty or a -1) and manage to make my to-strike roll against a lone sentry standing a watchtower. "Great! He's dead right?" I say. Not so much, in fact even if my crappy laser rifle had the damage to actually destroy his helmet in one shot, the GI Joe Rule would have saved him. "Darn, well I suppose I will try again". But wait, he has noticed getting shot in the face and has alerted the rest of the base as well as initiated combat (although it isn't really clear when combat is initiated). So I continue to attempt my aimed called shot, eating up all of my attacks that round (because hand to hand assassin is for snipers right?). I miss, he escapes, or I hit and he escapes anyways because I probably just destroyed his armor.

Long story short they eventually spot my nest and pepper me with laser blasts before I have a chance to get out of there. If they don't I have probably abandoned the idea of called shots all together in favor of just blasting away with my rifle.

Now what's really funny (besides how comically bad I am at sniping), is that there are much better classes for doing the same thing. Take the gunfighter for example, he will always have two more attacks than me as well as the normal gunslinger abilities making him better than me at both sniping and fighting. Now that reads "Concept: Failed" to me.

I'm going to respectfully ask that you take this discussion to another forum topic.

With all due respect, such posts are far more on topic than anything you have posted in this thread. Your opening post makes no mention of what a possible Rifts revamp would include - without people discussing what a Rifts revamp means in the thread, any poll relating to whether or not it is a good idea is completely meaningless.
Your attempts to prevent such discussions only serve to completely invalidate the entire poll.

As to the sniper thing... You forgot to take the Sharpshooting skill which is very important for a sniper, giving him an extra attack, more combat options and most importantly more accuracy. Also, he should be aware that shooting someone with a helmet on isn't going to do the job. It is his job as a sniper to be patient and wait until he has an opportune moment to get his kill - that means waiting until that helmet has been removed.

Adventurers can't take Sharpshooter if I recall correctly.

And why would a guard take off the helmet of his perfectly good enviromentally controlled armor.

Well then your adventurer has no business doing real men's work!
And there are heaps of reasons why someone would take off their helmet - wiping sweat away, sleeping, eating, playing poker, tanning, shaving. I could keep listing random things as there are probably thousands of reasons why someone would want their helmet off but you get the point.

[earthhawk]

It's obvious there are some who are threatened by the mere thought of someone trying to push all the negative energy on this forum into something positive. If you feel the need to try and hijack and derail this thread then by all means please don't let me stop you. But I will say this and nothing more: I think it's highly selfish and extremely immature for you and others to do so even though I asked you in a respectful manner to please take your conversation to another post, or even better create your own topic. The thread is yours do as you wish. You win.

[Killer Cyborg]

It's obvious there are some who are threatened by the mere thought of someone trying to push all the negative energy on this forum into something positive. If you feel the need to try and hijack and derail this thread then by all means please don't let me stop you. But I will say this and nothing more: I think it's highly selfish and extremely immature for you and others to do so even though I asked you in a respectful manner to please take your conversation to another post, or even better create your own topic. The thread is yours do as you wish. You win.

Generally if the Original Poster of a thread feels like somebody is derailing a thread, and asks the person to stop, and the person outright refuses, then the mods will help the OP out, if he/she asks.
Just sayin'.

[Subjugator]

Earthhawk and KC are both right.

[Giant2005]

Earthhawk and KC are both right.

Really?
So in a thread about "updating the game to modern standards" and "improving" the game, discussing what defines an "updated game" or what constitutes an "improvement" are off-topic?
For this thread and poll to have any value at all, those terms absolutely need explored, otherwise it is pure meaningless nonsense.

Any attempt to censor such integral discussions to the topic should be considered off-topic. Being the creator of the thread doesn't give Earthhawk the right of censorship and if he truly intended to bring up aspects such as updating the game to modern standards and improving the game, with the intention of not allowing such things be explored, then that is trolling.

[Damian Magecraft]

Earthhawk and KC are both right.

Really?
So in a thread about "updating the game to modern standards" and "improving" the game, discussing what defines an "updated game" or what constitutes an "improvement" are off-topic?
For this thread and poll to have any value at all, those terms absolutely need explored, otherwise it is pure meaningless nonsense.

Any attempt to censor such integral discussions to the topic should be considered off-topic. Being the creator of the thread doesn't give Earthhawk the right of censorship and if he truly intended to bring up aspects such as updating the game to modern standards and improving the game, with the intention of not allowing such things be explored, then that is trolling.

Gotta agree with the idea that we need to define "modern standards" before the poll can be effective.
But defining what is "wrong" with the system needs to be taken elsewhere.

[Bill]

I'm not an expert on RPG design, but after playing for 20 years and having utterly no loyalty to any specific game I think I have a handle on the question. I consider the following elements to be common and strongly desireable in current game design:

1. A consistent central resolution mechanic.
Whether it's a d20+mod roll-over mechanic, a percentile roll-under mechanic, or a contested die-pool mechanic, the consistent application of one mechanic to all task resolutions (combat, skills, saves, etc) is industry standard.

2. Standardized experience progression
Whether the game uses level progression or allows a player to spend awarded point to enhance the character as they're awarded, every race and class should handle it the same. My preference, perhaps because I tend to run a pick-up game, is for the latter. It doesn't really matter in the greater scheme of things though.

3. Resource management mini-game
It's very common, though not universal, for contemporary games to grant player characters finite resources to manage. Hero points, willpower, etc. ISP and PPE fit into this class of design elements, so we could check this one off. Something universal for all player characters, other than health points, would be nice.

4. Explicit in-session rewards for in-genre behavior
Rifts already does this as experience awards for behaving appropriate to the character's alignment when it's not advantageous. Many contemporary games emphasize this via bonuses to actions though. My favorite variant is Exalted's stunt-dice, which awards bonuses based on creative description of a character's actions.

5. Specialized player characters
This is often expressed as niche protection. Most modern games limit a character's ability to be effective in multiple areas of competence. Rifts tends to allow player characters that cross into several areas while offering very few benefits to focusing. This is desireable in my opinion because it makes it easier for the player to define his or her character concept and for the GM to set up opportunities for each character to shine.

6. Clearly defined rules for movement, environmental hazards, etc.
These and status effects usually get clearly identified in current RPGs.

I'm sure there are more, but these six were the ones that jumped out at me.

[Damian Magecraft]

By standardized Exp progression do you mean a single cjart to rule them all?
I can't support that... (It's one of the many things I think is wrong with hobby today).

[Damian Magecraft]

Not fond of the single die mechanic concept either.
Keep in mind just because everyone Is doing it does not mean its right.

[Damian Magecraft]

I can agree to most of the rest however.

[Shawn Merrow]

Not fond of the single die mechanic concept either.
Keep in mind just because everyone Is doing it does not mean its right.

I have a bunch of different dice, I want to use more of them then just one type.

I'm not personally fond of many of the so called "modern rules." I personally like the ruleset and would not want anything more then a cleanup of the rules.

[Dunia]

Some people just get lost in the sandbox of rifts and need the narrow path of other popular games. Personally I love the sandbox with little rules
All I need is character creation rules, combat rules and any other rules I may see fit to add it or remove when it's not working for me or slows down the story with because of a rule or two.

I think this is true. Pathfinder character generation feels like you're making a videogame character. Nothing feels open ended. One thing Palladium does well is that when you're playing, you don't feel constrained to an enumerated list of options.

--flatline

I actually find quite the opposite. in Rifts I hate the sense that in the end, most of my characters are going to end up the same. In Pathfinder however, I find great exuberance in the numerous builds that can come out of just a single class (not including any of the delicate arts of multi-classing). In fact, I find that in Rifts I just can't accomplish the character concepts that I want.

What the heck kind of character concepts do you have that can't be accomplished in Rifts...?

I agree with the face that at times it can be hard to build the character you want. As most classes have a few skills barred. Say for example, I want to play a barbarian Mind Melter or a Mystic that has lived inside a city all her life, but all Mind Melters get typical skills for being a city-dweller, just as all mystics get rural skills.

So when it comes to skill selection, it can at times be hard to pick what you want.

Then comes the fact when you make say a head hunter and you roll her to be a major psychic and decide that now that you have lots of ISP that you would like to have a technowizard item, but it says in the Headhunter OCC that they do NEVER (with capital letters) use them. Nowhere does it say that you can ask your neighborhood friendly TW to make a tW-limb for you, how this affect your ISP

So at times it can be hard to come up with a character concept.

[Dunia]

I really think that the concept of having a single pool of HP/SDC and MDC is outdated and boring. What is the use of a called shot to hit the leg with an SDC weapon - at leas according to the rules.

I would like to see HP/SDC/MDC separated by body parts (Head, Right/left Arms, main Body (or Chest abdomen), Right/left Leg and possibly R/L wing and tail) and rules how to hit such parts and their effect as well as bleeding damage. As it is now, once you get around level 7 wih a few physical skills you average around 100-110 HP+SDC, you can sit upon a grenade when it explode, charge a machine gun nest and survive being shot a few times.

I want more realism than AD&D mechanics.

In rifts the best way to kill a human enemy in a Dead Boy Armor is to lie down at 50+ meters range, have all your group call+aim shot at his arm and then fire on command, as his lowest armor is in the arm and as soon as the first shot hits flesh, he is dead (It is just the kind of Munchkinism that this game promotes if you read the rules)

[Giant2005]

I would like to see HP/SDC/MDC separated by body parts (Head, Right/left Arms, main Body (or Chest abdomen), Right/left Leg and possibly R/L wing and tail)

The compendium of modern weapons has what you are looking for.

rules how to hit such parts

The Called Shots section of a few books goes into detail about this.

their effect

The GMG has pain penalties which would apply.

bleeding damage.

This can be found in both the RUE and GMG.

In rifts the best way to kill a human enemy in a Dead Boy Armor is to lie down at 50+ meters range, have all your group call+aim shot at his arm and then fire on command, as his lowest armor is in the arm and as soon as the first shot hits flesh, he is dead (It is just the kind of Munchkinism that this game promotes if you read the rules)

I don't think many would play it that way. Most would simply have the arm be blown off which could result in death and most likely would render the target combat incapable but it isn't the same as simply blasting him away.

The thing about Palladium, is it does have rules for most things - they are just scattered all over the place. It doesn't need rules for things, it just needs them all in one book and in a logical order. That imo is the thing that needs changed about Rifts more than any other.

[slade the sniper]

The thing about Palladium, is it does have rules for most things - they are just scattered all over the place. It doesn't need rules for things, it just needs them all in one book and in a logical order. That imo is the thing that needs changed about Rifts more than any other.

This x 100

-STS

[earthhawk]

I'll clarify my stance on this subject: my goal here not to invalidate 30 years of hard work. I have sixty plus books for Rifts, the last thing I want to see is those books, the investment if you will, go to waste because of a new edition. With that being said I also understand that as the game stands now it's sort of in a rut (in my opinion). Palladium could stop publishing Rifts books this very day and there would still be enough Rifts material to last a lifetime. There are plenty of gaming companies that have multiple editions of their game on the market (D&D, Shadowrun, Gurps, HERO, etc...) and fans continue to play the game regardless of the edition they choose.

1. For a kick-starter I propose that any new edition of Rifts be compatible with the current books available.

2. Have a contest where fans are asked to submit their version of the rules while also meeting the criteria that Kevin deems most important to Rifts.

3. Once #2 is complete and a rules system is chosen, Palladium creates a "beginners box" of sorts; a simplification of the rules system that allows new and old players to re-discover the game. "Palladium Megaversal System" (wait PMS... that's too funny) launches as the core book.

This is my personal take on what I think could work, but at the end of the day I don't own the company.

[earthhawk]

Not fond of the single die mechanic concept either.
Keep in mind just because everyone Is doing it does not mean its right.

I have a bunch of different dice, I want to use more of them then just one type.

I'm not personally fond of many of the so called "modern rules." I personally like the ruleset and would not want anything more then a cleanup of the rules.

Hi Shawn:

As a freelance writer for Rifts which part of the rules do you feel could use cleaning up?

[Killer Cyborg]

Some people just get lost in the sandbox of rifts and need the narrow path of other popular games. Personally I love the sandbox with little rules
All I need is character creation rules, combat rules and any other rules I may see fit to add it or remove when it's not working for me or slows down the story with because of a rule or two.

I think this is true. Pathfinder character generation feels like you're making a videogame character. Nothing feels open ended. One thing Palladium does well is that when you're playing, you don't feel constrained to an enumerated list of options.

--flatline

I actually find quite the opposite. in Rifts I hate the sense that in the end, most of my characters are going to end up the same. In Pathfinder however, I find great exuberance in the numerous builds that can come out of just a single class (not including any of the delicate arts of multi-classing). In fact, I find that in Rifts I just can't accomplish the character concepts that I want.

What the heck kind of character concepts do you have that can't be accomplished in Rifts...?

I agree with the face that at times it can be hard to build the character you want. As most classes have a few skills barred. Say for example, I want to play a barbarian Mind Melter or a Mystic that has lived inside a city all her life, but all Mind Melters get typical skills for being a city-dweller, just as all mystics get rural skills.

Fair point.

Then comes the fact when you make say a head hunter and you roll her to be a major psychic and decide that now that you have lots of ISP that you would like to have a technowizard item, but it says in the Headhunter OCC that they do NEVER (with capital letters) use them. Nowhere does it say that you can ask your neighborhood friendly TW to make a tW-limb for you, how this affect your ISP

So at times it can be hard to come up with a character concept.

If you want to have TW bionics, then you have to be a different OCC, like the Monomo.

[Bill]

By standardized Exp progression do you mean a single cjart to rule them all?
I can't support that... (It's one of the many things I think is wrong with hobby today).

What does having multiple XP charts actually accomplish though?

What does using multiple die types accomplish, other than letting you use more fun shapes?

[kaid]

No offense, but it sounds like you succeeded in creating your character concept (stealthy sniper) he just failed in his goal.

To me, it sounds like the steps the PRules take to allow for longevity of PCs at the cost of realism is a double edged sword and overly lengthens the lifespans of NPCs as well.

This is why I like Mook Rules.

One other thing to note is most people are not wearing their fully buttoned up EBA 100% of the time especially if they are in their camp. If you are a patient sniper wait for your target to go to the chow hall any non armored part of the body is pretty much instant kill with an MDC rifle.

Also given that lasers are invisible and noiseless it would be pretty easy for a sniper stalking a base to kill somebody and move on and hide and strike again later since there is no muzzle flash or visible indication of where the shot came from. Given the damage an MDC beam does to unarmored bodies there would not be much left from the body to even determine basic direction of the assault.

None of that has anything to do with what I said.

Also even with the GI joe rule which most GM's I have played with only apply to PC's given you are shooting from long range with a invisible silent beam you should have your full alotment of melee actions to use before anybody can react to what is happening one shot with any good laser rifle should be enough to destroy the MDC of all but the heaviest EBA and then the next shot kills.

Well, the guy getting shot certainly gets to react. And assuming half damage (random rolls and all) per shot, even a Medium MDC helm should be able to take 2 shots on a 4D6 weapon, unless my memory is waaaaay off. And a lvl 1 with HtH assassin is pretty much out of actions after 2 aimed shots.

The guy shot can react but react to what. His helmet just evaporated along with all his sensors. He did not see anything/did not hear anything. About all he can do is yell sniper and maybe look for cover he cannot even blind fire at you because he has zero clue where the shot came from not even your general direction.

[kaid]

I'll clarify my stance on this subject: my goal here not to invalidate 30 years of hard work. I have sixty plus books for Rifts, the last thing I want to see is those books, the investment if you will, go to waste because of a new edition. With that being said I also understand that as the game stands now it's sort of in a rut (in my opinion). Palladium could stop publishing Rifts books this very day and there would still be enough Rifts material to last a lifetime. There are plenty of gaming companies that have multiple editions of their game on the market (D&D, Shadowrun, Gurps, HERO, etc...) and fans continue to play the game regardless of the edition they choose.

1. For a kick-starter I propose that any new edition of Rifts be compatible with the current books available.

2. Have a contest where fans are asked to submit their version of the rules while also meeting the criteria that Kevin deems most important to Rifts.

3. Once #2 is complete and a rules system is chosen, Palladium creates a "beginners box" of sorts; a simplification of the rules system that allows new and old players to re-discover the game. "Palladium Megaversal System" (wait PMS... that's too funny) launches as the core book.

This is my personal take on what I think could work, but at the end of the day I don't own the company.

One thing that always makes me nervous about second editions is while yes many games put put multiple editions and remained successful you also have examples such as 4th ED D&D where you do a revision and most of your customer base bails out and goes to a different product like pathfinder.

The RUE I think was the right direction to go but I think maybe they should have taken a bit more time and cleaned up some of the remnant crunk. Heck I would be all about a palladium megaversal rule book that is just a straight rule book that can be applied to any of their systems. Use the entire space for rules and rule clarifications don't worry about fluff at all just have a core palladium rule book. That way if they ever spin off new stuff like splicers or what not they don't have to recreate the wheel every time which always introduces weird copy/paste issues that accumulate over time.

[Killer Cyborg]

No offense, but it sounds like you succeeded in creating your character concept (stealthy sniper) he just failed in his goal.

To me, it sounds like the steps the PRules take to allow for longevity of PCs at the cost of realism is a double edged sword and overly lengthens the lifespans of NPCs as well.

This is why I like Mook Rules.

Well, you don't even need Mook Rules.
Just pit your characters against less-powerful (or less-armored) opponents.