Road Hogs Natural Mechanical Genius redux help request

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

I'm attempting to rework the NMG back ground from Road Hogs as an actual Mechanical Genius. So far the idea is to rehash the Mechanic Apprenticeship with higher skill bonuses and every mechanic type skill I can find.

The reason behind this is that we don't like playing with psionics in our game and flat out giving the pc 100% at fixing anything mechanical just seems like it wouldn't be any fun.

If anyone else has already done this I'd like to see your ideas on it.

On a side note, would anyone care to comment on why specific background updates (mechanic, highway engineer, others) are given a choice of apprenticeships? My thought is if your background says you're a Mechanic then that's what you know, not artistry or farrier or mariner. Just doesn't make much sense to me.

[Nightmask]

You don't have to consider it a psionic ability, it's not like even in RL we don't have examples of natural mechanical aptitude (just look at Da Vinci). Plus the character really should be such an expert at things as to rarely if ever fail in the construction or repair of things, if he's such a failure like everyone else he's not really a genius at it now is he? Plus being always or almost always right at his field doesn't mean you can't have fun, as the PC comes up with and tries out new ideas and has to deal with things that aren't mechanically related.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

You don't have to consider it a psionic ability, it's not like even in RL we don't have examples of natural mechanical aptitude (just look at Da Vinci).

Good point, but even Da Vinci had his failures. At 100% the PC has 0% chance of failure at diagnosing or repairing mechanical issues. The only saving graces I can find (I don't mean that to sound harsh) in Thyfur's conversion is that the NMG is NOT given Mechanical Engineering or Electrical Engineering. This keeps them from designing new machines or understanding electronics past basic wiring. Other than that they're golden.

Plus the character really should be such an expert at things as to rarely if ever fail in the construction or repair of things, if he's such a failure like everyone else he's not really a genius at it now is he?

That makes me think to put the skills at a ridiculously high level, but not 100%. Is that the statement you're trying to make? Or should it be put at 100% but with a conditional statement such as, (If it ever breaks again only an NMG can fix it or...) something to give it some NERF. Basically I'm hoping to have the NMG be insanely more proficient than anyone else at what he does, but I think infallible wouldn't be any fun to play (so..99% maybe?). I'd hate to have something uber powerful. I'm already wishy washy on my Animal PS power rewrite (extra cost and = to 1/2 of the associated superpower).

Plus being always or almost always right at his field doesn't mean you can't have fun, as the PC comes up with and tries out new ideas and has to deal with things that aren't mechanically related.

We talked about that during write up. Came to the conclusions that if it doesn't have moving parts it isn't a machine and you can't fix it without the appropriate skill and the NMG only covers those electronics that are part of the mechanical equipment (you can fix the wiring harness and existing electronic system for a car/mechanical device, but not redesign one. For that you'd need electrical engineering)

[Nightmask]

You don't have to consider it a psionic ability, it's not like even in RL we don't have examples of natural mechanical aptitude (just look at Da Vinci).

Good point, but even Da Vinci had his failures. At 100% the PC has 0% chance of failure at diagnosing or repairing mechanical issues. The only saving graces I can find (I don't mean that to sound harsh) in Thyfur's conversion is that the NMG is NOT given Mechanical Engineering or Electrical Engineering. This keeps them from designing new machines or understanding electronics past basic wiring. Other than that they're golden.

Plus the character really should be such an expert at things as to rarely if ever fail in the construction or repair of things, if he's such a failure like everyone else he's not really a genius at it now is he?

That makes me think to put the skills at a ridiculously high level, but not 100%. Is that the statement you're trying to make? Or should it be put at 100% but with a conditional statement such as, (If it ever breaks again only an NMG can fix it or...) something to give it some NERF. Basically I'm hoping to have the NMG be insanely more proficient than anyone else at what he does, but I think infallible wouldn't be any fun to play (so..99% maybe?). I'd hate to have something uber powerful. I'm already wishy washy on my Animal PS power rewrite (extra cost and = to 1/2 of the associated superpower).

Plus being always or almost always right at his field doesn't mean you can't have fun, as the PC comes up with and tries out new ideas and has to deal with things that aren't mechanically related.

We talked about that during write up. Came to the conclusions that if it doesn't have moving parts it isn't a machine and you can't fix it without the appropriate skill and the NMG only covers those electronics that are part of the mechanical equipment (you can fix the wiring harness and existing electronic system for a car/mechanical device, but not redesign one. For that you'd need electrical engineering)

Well there should be a slight option of failure, and even as a power it's still a skill-based feature since it's providing exceptional skill proficiency so there's always that 2% chance of failure that's stated in the books. So they'd have a 98% chance of success, and given the setting there shouldn't be any penalties that could be applied to it.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Hrmm. So a 98% for all mechanical type skills, that sounds doable. But like a Dedicated Martial Artist, should there be a lessening of other skills to reflect all the time spent with machines..or not, seeing as how they didn't STUDY mechanics they just intuitively know it.

What skills would the NMG excel at..

General Repair and Maintenance ..yes
Laser sytems, optic systems, radio satellite relay, radio scrambler... Nope.
Aircraft mechanics yes
auto mechanics yes
vehicle weapons systems.. maybe. only the mechanical parts of the weapon, the computer controlled firing mechanisms would not be included
Any Computer related skill.. nope
Electrical engineering.. nope
basic electronics yes, insofar as a basic knowledge of wiring and circuits goes hand in hand with modern technology
mechanical engineering... yes
Blacksmithing/farrier.. He could fix the bellows and any parts of a hoist that may be involved, but shouldn't know automatically how to blacksmith as a forge and working a forge isn't a machine or machine related
Boat building, canoe building. nope and nope.
Locksmith.. yes locks are machines
basic mechanics yes
Plumbing...only the mechanical parts of a plumbing/water system (he could fix the internal mechanism of your toilet/faucet/etc. but will be unable to fix a busted/leaking pipe or design any type of plumbing system without this skill).

I think a lot of the skills where I put ONLY this or that would fall under General Repair and maintenance. For the mechanical parts it'd be at the 98% for everything else (patching holes, fixing pipes, anything not directly affecting a "machine" would be at the regular % + any modifiers I might throw in.)

Am I over thinking this? I tend to do that.

[Nightmask]

There's no particular reason to penalize other skills, since as you note for one they just have a knack for mechanics which just makes them better than the average person with them. Also never hurts to know what a particular special ability or power applies to, don't want to expect to be able to use something in a critical moment only to hear 'sorry but you can't use that with that'.

[Tor]

Might be worth noting that this ability is also essentially present in Transdimensional (a super ability available to human mutants) and Powers Unlimited (a major super ability) albeit with slightly altered statistics. But the basic idea (can repair anything, stuff falls apart when you leave, massive paranoia about others sabotaging your stuff) is present.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Decided to finish out this character and take him a on a cross country trip from West to East. Accross the wastelands, the plains of free cattle, and everything that lies between!

Would appreciate your thoughts on how i've thought about redoing the NMG as a non psi class.
Thanks,
Nate

[DevastationBob]

+1 to Tor, the Mechano Link power in HU would do what you want it to.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Trying to keep this as far away from a power as I can. Think more along the lines of skills monkey. Knows everything about everything mechanical, to the point that he almost never fails.

[Nightmask]

Trying to keep this as far away from a power as I can. Think more along the lines of skills monkey. Knows everything about everything mechanical, to the point that he almost never fails.

You can't though, even as a skills monkey so to speak it's still a power because he has the natural aptitude (i.e. power) to simply know those kinds of things. It's a really minor power (like the Electrical Genius selection for the Natural & Genius OCC from Nightbane) but still a minor power, but nothing wrong with that.

[Rali]

I've been taking a different, sci-fi approach to the NMG "power". Instead of it being a psionic ability, why not have it be that the character has a symbiotic link with some sort of nanite colony that does the actual repairs? That would help explain why things have a tendency to fall apart when the character leaves. The character could also remain oblivious to the nanites presence and remain of the opinion that he/she was "just that good".

-edit-
I just had a thought! A GM could have some fun with this idea by having the nanites turn bad/evil, have them go dormant, transfer to another character for a session or two, or any number of other fun or silly scenarios.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Rali,
Thanks for the suggestion, but in my game I'm going to flat out say no. That is too close to splicers and I don't care for that game very much at all (game group member won't shut up about it).
I think i'm going to stick with the skills heavy version. Kind of like a HU Hardware lite lol. I just need to nail down what the NMG would excel at and what he wouldn't (what classifies as something mechanical for him to exert his genius upon).
I planned on leaving out the "it falls apart when you leave" bit. I was going to go with a "we can't figure out how you got it to do what it does" approach. The foil to this is another NMG would understand exactly what was going on and be able to counter it if needed.

Thoughts and opinions?
Thanks for weighing in everyone.

Nate

[Nightmask]

Rali,
Thanks for the suggestion, but in my game I'm going to flat out say no. That is too close to splicers and I don't care for that game very much at all (game group member won't shut up about it).
I think i'm going to stick with the skills heavy version. Kind of like a HU Hardware lite lol. I just need to nail down what the NMG would excel at and what he wouldn't (what classifies as something mechanical for him to exert his genius upon).
I planned on leaving out the "it falls apart when you leave" bit. I was going to go with a "we can't figure out how you got it to do what it does" approach. The foil to this is another NMG would understand exactly what was going on and be able to counter it if needed.

Thoughts and opinions?
Thanks for weighing in everyone.

Nate

Well as I've said before with the original power the idea that things fell apart into scrap when they left was bogus and meant the last thing the character was was an actual natural genius at all things mechanical, so leaving that off so what they build or fix actually last is just right. The idea that how they fixed it being so baffling only another NMG could understand it is a nice twist that I can quite agree with.

[Razorwing]

I don't want to discourage you from doing this, but it really sounds like you want to have all the abilities of the original background without any of the negative aspects to it. It seems that you want someone who is exceptionally good at building and maintaining things, but doesn't have to worry about them falling apart once they are "fixed".

The whole concept behind the Natural Mechanical Genius was that they could fix anything perfectly... so long as the device remained within their general vicinity. This was the offset to their exceptional skill at building and repairing things and was as much a part of their character as that ability. The fact that they also believe that their ability is absolutely infallible was also a major part of their character too... they just can't accept that their devices require their presence to continue working.

If you take this aspect of their character out of the background... then all you really have is a very skilled mechanic... something anyone can be (and is in fact one of the other backgrounds available in the original Road Hogs). Without their "power" is the character really anything like the original concept?

I understand you may not like playing with psionics/power in general... but in all honesty this is one background where the power is intrinsic to the nature of the background. Besides, it is not like it really costs anything... one doesn't spend any points to use the ability, and unlike other animal psionics, it can be used at the same time as other psionics. It is like trying to create a "Mage" without giving him any actual magic.

Just some food for thought.

[Nightmask]

I don't want to discourage you from doing this, but it really sounds like you want to have all the abilities of the original background without any of the negative aspects to it. It seems that you want someone who is exceptionally good at building and maintaining things, but doesn't have to worry about them falling apart once they are "fixed".

The whole concept behind the Natural Mechanical Genius was that they could fix anything perfectly... so long as the device remained within their general vicinity. This was the offset to their exceptional skill at building and repairing things and was as much a part of their character as that ability. The fact that they also believe that their ability is absolutely infallible was also a major part of their character too... they just can't accept that their devices require their presence to continue working.

If you take this aspect of their character out of the background... then all you really have is a very skilled mechanic... something anyone can be (and is in fact one of the other backgrounds available in the original Road Hogs). Without their "power" is the character really anything like the original concept?

I understand you may not like playing with psionics/power in general... but in all honesty this is one background where the power is intrinsic to the nature of the background. Besides, it is not like it really costs anything... one doesn't spend any points to use the ability, and unlike other animal psionics, it can be used at the same time as other psionics. It is like trying to create a "Mage" without giving him any actual magic.

Just some food for thought.

I think you may have missed the point that he wanted an actual Natural Mechanical Genius, not a fake. You clearly aren't actually a genius at fixing stuff if it falls apart as soon as you get a few hundred feet away from it, and the Natural Mechanical Genius as was seen in the book clearly isn't. It even required that they ALL be delusional and insist that when the things broke down that it had to be everyone else's fault rather than them simply not being able to fix anything at all and instead they held it together and made it work due to their psionic power rather than actually fixing anything. People who want to play builder characters tend to want to actually be able to build and do great work rather than always doing the opposite, hence wanting to see the power/ability deliver on what it's called and live up to its name.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Razorwing, I'm not really sure what to say to this.
No, not really a fan of psionics in my games other than maybe animal speech.
Do I want the original abilities? Yes. A super mechanic is the idea.
Do I want none of the drawbacks? No I feel that there should be something to offset it. I just don't think it should it should be that things fall apart when he leaves the room. I'm okay with the things they fix stopping working like anything else and as mentioned above, the NMG fixing it in such a convoluted way that non NMG's can't begin to fathom what is going on and are at a complete loss on how to fix it with out another NMG being in attendance.
Heck, the point of this thread is to figure out how to make it workable as a nonpsionic ability.

[Cedric Caleb]

Just my two cents here. Razorwing's point is valid, so I'll just acknowledge that. And I understand the challenge is to create a Natural Mechanical Genius skill or apprenticeship skill to negate it as a psionic ability, yes?

I suppose we all agree as a skill in the Palladium System it max. at 98%, so perhaps it's best to give the skill the disadvantage of a percentile table after the success of a repair or 'fix'? Sort of like the example the main book gives for role-playing a scenario where they set bombs in the main book on page 162 or the like.

Natural Mechanical Genius automatic 98%

Use this table for each successful d100 roll
01 - 10: Success, perfect repair with no side effects.
11-25: Long term repair, equipment runs for 3d6 weeks without failure.
26-50: Short term repair, equipment functions for 2d6 days.
51 -75: Temporary fix, equipment lasts 2d6 hours, or until it receives even minor damage.
76 - 92: Jury rigged, equipment works until somebody kicks the tires.
93 - 98: Equipment will only work in the hands of the Natural Mechanical Genius.

This is just an example, but might be something like what you are looking for. As you can see, I only wrote down from 01-98, so that the skill roll made is ALSO the quality repair of the table. I hope this is something that might interest you as a solution to the problem.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Very interesting Caleb. That is workable for the drawback side of it.
Thoughts on the skills/positive side?
For example what all skills are maxed out for the natural mechanical genius? Is it all skills having to do with machines or only those skills that have to do with something that has moving parts? The second option would rule out skills like computers basic electronics and other associated skills.

[Fermat]

Have you considered handling it like a Hardware character from HU? Their appropriate skills get a bonus and can go over 100%, but it is purely to handle negatives. I think its a fairly good way of handling the issue of engineering genius.

[Rali]

Another option would be to treat it like the Ancient Master from Ninjas and Superspies. Figure out what level the character would need to be to have skills of the appropriate level and make it so the character can not progress any skills until they have made it from level one to level X.

[Pepsi Jedi]

As pointed out, most skills have a max of 98% but not in all cases. In cases where there are often penalties and the penalties often stack, the skill percentage 'can' go beyond 98. This is shown, (As stated) In the hardware categories in HU, as you can get -20...30... 60% on some of the skill rolls. So having a skill at 128% is a thing. You just roll vs 98% normally (I.e. 2% chance of failure,) but any penlaties come off the top end.

Problem being here, is that in this setting (After the bomb) The world is teetering on the edge. Having/giving someone huge swaths of skills for free is going to unbalance the game against the poor guys that roll smaller skill programs or what have you. You don't get a ton to start and if one guy has 30 skills at 98% or better to start. Everyone's going to look sideways at him.

What I would suggest, instead of giving him tons of mechanical skills. Or giving him 'all' the mechanical skills and at an ultra high level.

Creating "One" Skill that would cover what you're looking for. A "Natural Mechanical Genius" Sort of "Uber' Skill.

"Natural Mechanical Genius" Unlike many whom have gone to school and or apprenticed for years to obtain the skills that they start out with in game, the Natural mechanical Genius is different. From birth he or she seemed to just 'Get' machines. Some would be quick to liken this to a psionic power but it's not. It's just an inborn innate understanding of mechanics. He or she might not know the proper terms for the items they manipulate. They may have no clue what they're called or the science behind them. There's just an innate understanding. They can pick up mechanical things and after a few seconds suss them out. Naturally. Seemingly with little effort. This expresses itself in an aptitude to repair, maintain, and build mechanical items. From a toaster to a jet engine. This does NOT mean they can touch things and they just be fixed. The Natural Mechanical Genius must actually do the work. Just as if someone who went to trade school would. he just knows how instinctually.

due to this natural leaning he or she has focused on this as their skill selection often to the detriment of other skills. They may have secondary skills but their natural mechanical ability has meant that they never appriticed in another field. They just never had the urge or leanings to.

The skill starts at 75% with a +2% per level increase. (This means you'll be level 7 or 8 when it maxes out. Depending on how your gm plays it) This represents his innate skill with 'all things mechanical" but also represents that even with innate skill practice makes one better/faster/less prone to make mistakes.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Jedi... things like this... this is why I love you man!

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Things that still need worked out

a. what does it work/not work on?
b. does the iq bonus apply to it?
c. For AtB 1st edition do we just paste over the same # of 2ndary skills ( this may take some tinkering as Road Hogs was never updated to a revised Edition standard)
d. how do we make it fit into 2nd edition? Is it a unique character background? (like guerrilla fighter etc?) It would almost have to be given the description, the char has other skills but doesn't focus on them for the bent towards machinery. Or is it a very narrowly focused apprenticeship? Tacking it on top of an existing background would make it seem like something the character had chosen to learn