Incorporating Macross II material

[ilexgarodan]

So, I recently got my hands on a copy of the Macross II core book and its first sourcebook. Very interesting material, I must admit. Has anyone adapted any of the mecha or the Marduk into their Robotech campaigns? If so, how did you do it?

[taalismn]

I haven't, but it should be easy enough...human equipment and mecha can be treated as prototypes or the hardware from established extraterrestrial colonies.
The Marduk can just as easily be a splinter faction of the Tirolians.

[glitterboy2098]

the main thing would be to alter the powerplant info to conform to 2nd ed RPG standards. personally, i'd make them SLMH fueled fusion with durations roughly equal to the stuff from Macross Saga sourcebook. (basically 1 week of fuel.. though it would be less if doing a lot of space operations, due to the need to use SLMH as remass)

[Pouncer]

I utilise MII mecha and ships. The air Valkyrie and Destroids are used as colony defense while the space Valkyrie serves in small numbers as a long ranged interceptor or strike fighter. I also use the ships, though I'm still tweaking the stats on various units.

-POUNCER

[glitterboy2098]

I'd Double MDC all across the board. Damages would have to be upgraded to 5 times to match the new Canon.
Simply because that's how bad the increase in damages were...

Or I'd leave the MDC the same and just double all the weapons. I'd also triple the damage the rail guns just to show they are improvements over the GU X

um.. have you seen the Macross II stuff? a VF-2SS has about 500 MDC main body, more with SAP system, and with that system it has greater firepower than an Alpha. the whole books is roughly in that league. it doesn't need any modifications for MDC and damage.


And the actual change from 1st ed to 2nd ed robotech mdc values ranged from very little (macross) to about 50 percent (southern cross and new gen.)
The weapons power stayed about the same.

Didn't mean to rain on your parade, but hyperbole doesn't answer the OP's question.

[Chronicler]

Sorry to be a little off topic but is the Macross 2 book worth getting? I saw that my LGS had a copy but someone snatched that up, and a couple are on Ebay. Saw a lot of the mech designs and thought of also incorporating them in my campaign.

[Snake Eyes]

So, I recently got my hands on a copy of the Macross II core book and its first sourcebook. Very interesting material, I must admit. Has anyone adapted any of the mecha or the Marduk into their Robotech campaigns? If so, how did you do it?

Yup, in fact i think i have a partial Macross II/Robotech conversion guide laying around somewhere......

[Colonel Wolfe]

Macross 2 works well, if you use it as an Alternate robotech settign where the Master's never made it to Earth, and the Earth forces never really left the Earth, but just developed a massive home-defense fleet and never encountered the invid... (or defeated them easily )... The left-over Zentradi forces came around every few years and died when they played some terrible 80's pop music... until some dudes with opera singers came by....

[ShadowLogan]

So, I recently got my hands on a copy of the Macross II core book and its first sourcebook. Very interesting material, I must admit. Has anyone adapted any of the mecha or the Marduk into their Robotech campaigns? If so, how did you do it?

I ported them once into a Sentinels-esque campaign for new aliens, but found the MDC flavor to be different than Robotech (1E) to the point I felt they did not mix well.

I've also played where the GM ported the Invid over to Macross 2 (Invid leadership was impersonating a resurrected Marduk emperor).

Sorry to be a little off topic but is the Macross 2 book worth getting? I saw that my LGS had a copy but someone snatched that up, and a couple are on Ebay. Saw a lot of the mech designs and thought of also incorporating them in my campaign.

That really depends on your point of view if it is worth getting and what your are looking for. The Deck Plan series is worth getting, at least until we get proper deck plans for RT. The Main Book/SB not so much for RT, but if you want to play a Mac2 setting it would be worth it.

I'd Double MDC all across the board. Damages would have to be upgraded to 5 times to match the new Canon.
Simply because that's how bad the increase in damages were...

Or I'd leave the MDC the same and just double all the weapons. I'd also triple the damage the rail guns just to show they are improvements over the GU X

I have to agree with glitterboy2098 here. There is no need to increase MDC or MD values at all for Macross 2. If anything when porting them into Robotech I would actually cut all MDC values in half across the board.

IIRC the damages for various weapons and such, they can be left alone.

[jaymz]

I'd Double MDC all across the board. Damages would have to be upgraded to 5 times to match the new Canon.
Simply because that's how bad the increase in damages were...

Or I'd leave the MDC the same and just double all the weapons. I'd also triple the damage the rail guns just to show they are improvements over the GU X

um.. have you seen the Macross II stuff? a VF-2SS has about 500 MDC main body, more with SAP system, and with that system it has greater firepower than an Alpha. the whole books is roughly in that league. it doesn't need any modifications for MDC and damage.


And the actual change from 1st ed to 2nd ed robotech mdc values ranged from very little (macross) to about 50 percent (southern cross and new gen.)
The weapons power stayed about the same.

Didn't mean to rain on your parade, but hyperbole doesn't answer the OP's question.

Actually the VF-2s only have 300-350 not 500. The 500+ is for the SAP versions and the Metal Siren. Even the VF-XX isn't that high.

Also the Macross stuff did jump by about just under 50% to well beyond 50% if not more than 100% (VF-1 250-360, Tomahawk 300-475, Battlepod 50-125)

ASC and NG saw similar results from unit to unit. 50% seems to be the baseline by and large.

If I were adapting them for Robotech (aside from my overarching Robotech timeline/storyline/history that already has them incorporated) I'd go with a 50% in crease in MDC across the board and 50-100% for weapon damages.

[Seto Kaiba]

So, I recently got my hands on a copy of the Macross II core book and its first sourcebook. Very interesting material, I must admit. Has anyone adapted any of the mecha or the Marduk into their Robotech campaigns? If so, how did you do it?

Not personally, but I have supplied my errata/corrections for the Macross II RPG to several friends who have used the mecha from that series in their Robotech games. That was ages ago, though, when my grand Macross II OSM translation project had only just gotten started, so the corrections were not the major, sweeping rewrite of the book they eventually became. This was back in like '03-'04, before 2E.

Both groups that I was directly supplying information to opted to use the Macross II OVA's mecha as a series of new developments made in cooperation with the remnants of the Tirolian gov't to replace the aging inventory of VF-1's, Hover Tanks, and Sentinels destroids the Expeditionary Forces had been making do with. The backstory they came up with, which drew on a few elements of the OSM, was that the new units were a merger of human and Zentradi technology, enhancing the endurance, durability, firepower, and so on for humanity's VF technology. Essentially, they were kind of in a similar niche to 2E RT's Bioroid Interceptor... but intended to replace the Alpha fighter eventually.

Sorry to be a little off topic but is the Macross 2 book worth getting? I saw that my LGS had a copy but someone snatched that up, and a couple are on Ebay. Saw a lot of the mech designs and thought of also incorporating them in my campaign.

Well, it depends on what you're after.

The books themselves are as playable as any other Palladium product, and the Deck Plans volumes are rather useful whether you're of a Macross or Robotech inclination. The problem with them is that they're Macross II only in the vaguest and most superficial sense... there's no actual Macross II in the books, apart from the pictures.

Somehow, Palladium managed to get virtually every single detail that went into the books wrong. Virtually all the fluff detail about the story, the setting, the characters, the mecha... all of it is wrong. They didn't even manage to get the year the show is set in correct. Bless 'em for trying, especially since the books came out back in the American anime industry's formative years and Macross II info is kind of hard to find, but it's so uniformly wide of the mark that it's actually kind of surreal. Some of the errors are so bad you don't even need to have seen the anime, you can tell something's not right just by comparing the text's descriptions to the art printed on the very same page.*

* Such as on Macross II core book pg.60, where the text asserts the VF-2SS Valkyrie II has three micro-missile launchers on its arms, when the art clearly shows the OSM's five... or Sourcebook One's pages 36, 37 and 38, where the Macross Cannon's art is enough to show it's made from four or the 4,000m Zentradi fleet command battleships, but is described as being only 488m long... while also claiming that that ship has no atmospheric capability, then devoting the entire next page to a full-page print of one flying into clouds.

Macross 2 works well, if you use it as an Alternate robotech settign where the Master's never made it to Earth, and the Earth forces never really left the Earth, but just developed a massive home-defense fleet and never encountered the invid... (or defeated them easily )... The left-over Zentradi forces came around every few years and died when they played some terrible 80's pop music... until some dudes with opera singers came by....

Huh, while that bears pretty much zero resemblance to the actual Macross II setting, that sure makes a cheerier picture than the official Robotech setting. After all, at least that makes it sound like humanity's not about to be decimated again in its fourth alien war in less than forty years, and where society has totally degenerated to the point that the only occupations are "soldier" and "captured slave laborer"... not counting that, before it fell, Earth was a military dictatorship ruled by a rabidly xenophobic "reformed" terrorist with an axe to grind against his fellow brass, and the human soldiers in deep space were led by a psychopath whose grasp of tactics only extended as far as "Zerg Rush" and who didn't bat an eye at the prospect of destroying his own home world and wiping out the majority of humanity for the sake of spiting some aggressive squatting space insects.

[jaymz]

I can vouch for Seto supplying info....I am one of the people he has helped with not just Macross II but Macross in general.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Earth was a military dictatorship ruled by a rabidly xenophobic "reformed" terrorist with an axe to grind against his fellow brass,

Me Think Commander Leonard answering to a Prime minster kinda sells short the whole Military Dictator...

the human soldiers in deep space were led by a psychopath whose grasp of tactics only extended as far as "Zerg Rush" and who didn't bat an eye at the prospect of destroying his own home world and wiping out the majority of humanity for the sake of spiting some aggressive squatting space insects.

honestly, Rick Takes a Page from Gloval, The Propaganda he fed the Civilians on the SDF-1, Leaving people for dead, Butchering a whole part of Canada. a Few Billion Died under his command... Rick was just trying to Match the efforts of his mentor in destroying the Earth...

[Seto Kaiba]

I can vouch for Seto supplying info....I am one of the people he has helped with not just Macross II but Macross in general.

Indeed... it occurs to me that one change that would have to be made that hasn't been mentioned yet was related to missiles. Mini-missiles are guided in the Macross II game, but not RT2E, and that's what the VF-2SS uses. They'd have to be changed to SRMs to be compliant with 2E, or the M2 guided mini-missiles could be adopted instead (which would, frankly, be more consistent with the series).

Most of the other systems could just be updated to match or exceed what's already in use for the same type of equipment in 2E. Using OSM spec would make the Macross II mecha decidedly broken for RT2E's use, since that would put the VF-2SS at twice the VF-1's MDC values without its Super Armed Pack, its gun pods would be dealing more than double the damage of a 2E GU-11, and even the slowest fighter would be almost twice as fast as the VF-1 in level flight.

Earth was a military dictatorship ruled by a rabidly xenophobic "reformed" terrorist with an axe to grind against his fellow brass,

Me Think Commander Leonard answering to a Prime minster kinda sells short the whole Military Dictator...

Both Harmony Gold's official position on the matter, and the 2nd Edition RPG*, clearly indicate that Leonard's Earth's military dictator and Moran's lot are mostly for show.

* Kindly refer to the Masters Saga Sourcebook (2nd Edition), the first three paragraphs on page 12 and most of page 23.

[Alpha 11]

Earth was a military dictatorship ruled by a rabidly xenophobic "reformed" terrorist with an axe to grind against his fellow brass,

Me Think Commander Leonard answering to a Prime minster kinda sells short the whole Military Dictator...

the human soldiers in deep space were led by a psychopath whose grasp of tactics only extended as far as "Zerg Rush" and who didn't bat an eye at the prospect of destroying his own home world and wiping out the majority of humanity for the sake of spiting some aggressive squatting space insects.

honestly, Rick Takes a Page from Gloval, The Propaganda he fed the Civilians on the SDF-1, Leaving people for dead, Butchering a whole part of Canada. a Few Billion Died under his command... Rick was just trying to Match the efforts of his mentor in destroying the Earth...

Ok, I will scratch my head had Hunter and his choices, but Gloval, come on. Were was he leaving people for dead? The shield over load by accident, not on purpose! If they hadn't us it, they most likely would have been wipped out. And what propaganda? I'm sure he didn't tell the people everything, because, if he did, they might have rioted and to keep moral up. Come on, think, 60,000 civilizens on that small of a space, it would have been bad if they had gotten out of control.

[taalismn]

If anything, Gloval was fighting a bigger propaganda machine that had declared the civilians on his ship DEAD.
And Gloval would be right in not being totally transparent with the civilians; the riot in the White Dragon could have gone VERY bad if they'd gotten the drop on Rick and Lisa, and taken the whole group of them hostage.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Ok, I will scratch my head had Hunter and his choices, but Gloval, come on. Were was he leaving people for dead? The shield over load by accident, not on purpose! If they hadn't us it, they most likely would have been wipped out. And what propaganda? I'm sure he didn't tell the people everything, because, if he did, they might have rioted and to keep moral up. Come on, think, 60,000 civilizens on that small of a space, it would have been bad if they had gotten out of control.

He Left Rick and Minmay for dead in space when he Space folded the Entire island into space, causing untold deaths then, and Ordered Roy not to search for them.
his propaganda machine is apparent when Rick is telling Minmay about the heavy losses they were having in combat, yet the broad casts talked of how well they were doing, even Rick is bothered by Gloval's lies.
Weather "addicent" or purposeful Gloval's actions in Canada are the result of his refusal to take a Dangerous weapon off planet.
his actions in total lead directly to the destruction of the planet and Billions, Rick only hoped to top this by using Black-hole weaponry to obliterate the planet...

Both Harmony Gold's official position on the matter, and the 2nd Edition RPG*, clearly indicate that Leonard's Earth's military dictator and Moran's lot are mostly for show.

* Kindly refer to the Masters Saga Sourcebook (2nd Edition), the first three paragraphs on page 12 and most of page 23.

So is the RPG Canon or not? because in one place I'm told by the Same poster that it isn't, who is now being implying it is...
and as for HG's official position, Kindly provide a link to something "Official" that states as much, b/c Watching the Show it hardly implies this.

[taalismn]

When you're all by yourself in deep space being pursued by an unknown alien force that vastly outnumbers you, 'doing well' is just surviving in one piece.
So since we've established once and for all that Henri Gloval is Baghdad Bob's brother, heir to the Goebbels media empire, and graduated from the Fox News Network College of Public Relations, let us return to the question of whether Macross II warships can successfully hold off Invid attack swarms, or whether they're in the same boat as the Ikazuchis and Garfish of MOSPEAD/New Generation canon.

[Chronicler]

You know this thread was use full. I have to agree that mini-missiles should be guided as per the series (they went with Rifts version of mini's, they are non guided). I'm getting the book through the mail so I'll soon be able to see for myself if anything needs changing.

I think it would be a neat idea to say that the Alpha fighter and the VF-2SS are competing fighter models like how the VF-19 and VF-22 where in Macross Plus. Does that sound viable for cross over?

[Colonel Wolfe]

I think it would be a neat idea to say that the Alpha fighter and the VF-2SS are competing fighter models like how the VF-19 and VF-22 where in Macross Plus. Does that sound viable for cross over?

In this competition, I feel slightly sorry for the Alpha....

[Seto Kaiba]

[...] let us return to the question of whether Macross II warships can successfully hold off Invid attack swarms, or whether they're in the same boat as the Ikazuchis and Garfish of MOSPEAD/New Generation canon.

Depends which ships you're talking about.

The human ships are horrifically misrepresented in the books, both in terms of their dimensions, armament, and capabilities, which means that unless you corrected them to OSM spec they might have a similarly hard time. If you ran them close to OSM spec, where they have the same 200,000 mile gun ranges as the UN Spacy's Zentradi fleet elements, and often more firepower than the average Zentradi battleship, the Invid wouldn't have much chance. They'd be picked off at ranges out around a light second, or have their ships and hives subjected to a leisurely bombardment from near lunar orbit before they even took off. The Invid would never even make it close enough to the UN Spacy's ships to actually attack them, and the ships are pretty well-defended (with dozens or hundreds of destroids, plus their Valkyrie complements).

most of the Zentraedi fleet is now in un spacy hands in macross II, and they have been retrofitted with close assault defense, large numbers of Valkyries, and large number of Zentraedi not to mention at the start, they have 12 Macross gunsships and numerous destroyers.

Um... no. I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but you're being misled there. The UN Spacy fleet in Macross II: Lovers Again was made up of human-built ships utilizing Zentradi and Meltrandi overtechnology, and also a great many modified Zentradi Army warships that either surrendered or defected to the UN Spacy during the various wars and smaller skirmishes with Zentradi fleets that occurred over 80+ years... not counting any they built themselves out of the factory satellites they controlled. Those ships aren't from one fleet, they're from at least four different Zentradi main fleets that have been explicitly named, and innumerable branch fleets and rogue elements. Very little of that fleet is made up of the ships that defected from Boddole Zer's 465th Main Fleet in 2010... that force was diluted by colony escort details and no small amount of combat losses after crossing swords with at least four other main fleets between 2010 and 2055, and an inordinate number of smaller skirmishes.

The Macross Cannons? I don't have my book in front of me, but the OVA only mentions six in the Sol system. They're also a heckuva lot shootier than the RPG claims, having several hundred times the firepower of the SDF-1's main gun (while also being several times the size... officially being 6km long in fortress mode, and 4km long in storm attacker). What d'you mean by destroyers? The official material only refers to battleships... the Herakles-class large battleship, Gloria fleet command battleship, and the standard battleship... which are, on average, around 4x the size the RPG claims.

You know this thread was use full. I have to agree that mini-missiles should be guided as per the series (they went with Rifts version of mini's, they are non guided). I'm getting the book through the mail so I'll soon be able to see for myself if anything needs changing.

I think it would be a neat idea to say that the Alpha fighter and the VF-2SS are competing fighter models like how the VF-19 and VF-22 where in Macross Plus. Does that sound viable for cross over?

I'd have to agree with Colonel Wolfe... though I suspect for slightly different reasons... and feel rather sorry for the Alpha. It's pretty outclassed in that comparison, and would almost definitely lose out to the Valkyrie II. Especially when a Valkyrie II's got greater main body MDC (in its usual configuration, with the Super Armed Pack), almost the same count for short-range missiles bolstered by multiple long-range missile launchers, and its ability to bring along multiple gun drones for support fire. The two really are designed for completely different types of combat.

If I were ever to bring the Alpha over to a Macross-verse game, I'd have to put it with other small form-factor, short range, light fighters like the VF-5000B Star Mirage or VF-9A Cutlass, where its focus on close-range combat would be more favorable.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I'd have to agree with Colonel Wolfe... though I suspect for slightly different reasons... and feel rather sorry for the Alpha. It's pretty outclassed in that comparison, and would almost definitely lose out to the Valkyrie II. Especially when a Valkyrie II's got greater main body MDC (in its usual configuration, with the Super Armed Pack), almost the same count for short-range missiles bolstered by multiple long-range missile launchers, and its ability to bring along multiple gun drones for support fire. The two really are designed for completely different types of combat.

Macross II is the one Macross continuation I actually Enjoyed.
its a difference of Technology and progression.
The difference in tech is the Issue, Mac2 is set in 2092... the Alpha Developed in the 2010's isn't nearly as advanced as anything present in Mac2.
its Putting the ENIAC into a competition with a Modern day Lap-top on which has better Graphics and processing power...

[jaymz]

You know this thread was use full. I have to agree that mini-missiles should be guided as per the series (they went with Rifts version of mini's, they are non guided). I'm getting the book through the mail so I'll soon be able to see for myself if anything needs changing.

I think it would be a neat idea to say that the Alpha fighter and the VF-2SS are competing fighter models like how the VF-19 and VF-22 where in Macross Plus. Does that sound viable for cross over?

If you are interested I have rewritten the stats of pretty much EVERYTHING, Macross II included with Seto's help on the Macross and Macross II stuff. PM me if you are.

[Chronicler]

well I haven't gotten the book yet so don't know about it stat wise. Other than that I'm still hammering out my campaign so ether the macros two stuffs get a downgrade or I just beef up the alpha a little.

[jaymz]

Seto is accurate in what he says in regards to Macross II. The books.....highly inaccurate.

As I said before, I'd increase all MDC values by 50% and weapon damages by 50-100%. That would be a better comparison with the new Robotech 2nd ed stuff

[Chronicler]

Seto is accurate in what he says in regards to Macross II. The books.....highly inaccurate.

As I said before, I'd increase all MDC values by 50% and weapon damages by 50-100%. That would be a better comparison with the new Robotech 2nd ed stuff

eh true, though I would probably get a good read out of it (got it for under five bucks on ebay anyways).

[jaymz]

Oh it's a good read. And gives you some decent art as well *nods* I am glad I have them.

[Seto Kaiba]

Macross II is the one Macross continuation I actually Enjoyed.

*Gasp!* Is this... common ground?

Perish the thought, my good sir. I wouldn't want the meteorologists to have to try and explain away the rain of frogs and the seas running red with blood...

The difference in tech is the Issue, Mac2 is set in 2092... the Alpha Developed in the 2010's isn't nearly as advanced as anything present in Mac2.
its Putting the ENIAC into a competition with a Modern day Lap-top on which has better Graphics and processing power...

Pretty much, yeah... the Valkyrie II and its fellows are, in a lot of ways, kind of like the Bioroid Interceptor in Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles. It's a combination of two different technological schools of thought, specifically humanity's Variable Fighter tech and reverse-engineered Zentradi battle suit tech. It's definitely rather unfair to compare it to Robotech's Alpha fighter... there's about sixty years of development and booby-trap-free alien technology separating the two.

Seto is accurate in what he says in regards to Macross II. [...]

I should hope so... I'd hate to think I wasted seven years of free time tracking down and translating each and every little magazine article, art book, and interview even tangentially related to the OVA.

As I said before, I'd increase all MDC values by 50% and weapon damages by 50-100%. That would be a better comparison with the new Robotech 2nd ed stuff

For VFs, maybe... I had a bit of a shock when I went to compare UN Spacy warship weapons from the Deck Plans books against what we have for RT2E stats on the Invid carriers. With a disparity this huge, just ONE Zentradi Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleship could've beaten the entire Invid force that engaged the UEEF in the space battle over Reflex Point without once exposing itself to danger.

Those ships, which were common as corn in the UN Spacy's forces circa 2092, are armed with guns that have their maximum range set at 200,000 miles, which deal enough damage that each individual shot has a three in four chance of obliterating an Invid carrier and killing everything aboard if it hits, and fire twice a melee.

Each Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class battleship carries a hundred and ten of those guns.

If those ships were allowed to fire on more than one target at a time, the Battle of Reflex Point would have been over in about fifteen seconds... even the best ships in 2E wouldn't last more than one or two melees.

[Seto Kaiba]

Macross Deckplans give them Zentraedi Destroyers, which are un spacey controlled. [...]

's partly a problem of Palladium using incorrect terminology in their books, either as a result of poor-quality translations or simple misinformation. This is what a Zentradi Army gun destroyer looks like, this is a Zentradi Army line battleship.

There are no macross II stats for Marduk zent ships, but you can quick stat them by removing the un spacy armaments and doubling troops [...]

So... you're telling me everyone here is hallucinating Macross II: Deck Plans Vol. 1 pages 39 to 51, and Macross II: Deck Plans Vol. 2 pages 40 to 45 then? Because those pages clearly show us the Mardook versions of several Zentradi warships, including the Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleship, Thuverl Salan-class line battleship, and Quiltra Queleual-class carrier.

You might also want to take note of the fact that in those books, the armaments are standardized and listed together in the front of the book. There's no difference, stats-wise, between the guns on Zentradi flagships and Mardook ones.

The Macross minigunships are NOT that huge, you're confusing the un zent ships with UN human ships

No, I'm not... I'm afraid you're the one who's very, VERY badly confused.

Let me take a moment and explain something to you. Several things, really.

First... it's pretty darn obvious from your posts that you don't know what you're talking about, and you aren't referencing the books either.

Second... I'm pretty much THE expert on Macross II. Almost anyone here will tell you that. My hobby happens to be translating Japanese publications, and the Macross II: Lovers Again OVA is my particular pet project. I have virtually everything that has ever been published for the series, ranging from the promo articles and concept art that were only published in Japan, to the official art books and magazine interviews with the creators, and even the Japanese novelizations, the official manga adaptation, and even the sparse and wildly inaccurate coverage the OVA got in the US. I know this subject inside and out.

Third... maybe you should consider reviewing the books, or the OVA, or both. You can tell fairly quickly that the Macross Cannon-class ships are many times larger than the RPG claims, because their gun arms are very obviously four of the 4 kilometer long Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class battleships. You can see clearly in the OVA (and screencaps in the Deck Plans books, like the one on Vol.1 pg8) that the Macross Cannon gunships are much bigger than Palladium claims... there are 500m long Zentradi picket/scout ships seen right there in the foreground in front of the Macross Cannon-class ships, rendered puny against the massive gunships. That shouldn't be all that surprising, since a length of 6,000 meters in cruiser/fortress mode is exactly what the show's creators specified when they designed it for the OVA.

also, the size of the macross canon ships being 6km ... is dubious, they didn't distinnguish between THE MACROSS or the macross canon ships.

The 6,000m length for the Macross Cannon-class gunships is exactly what Macross II's designers stated when they designed it during the show's pre-production development process. That length has been confirmed in several official Macross publications, including the official Macross encyclopedia Macross Chronicle*.

* See Macross Chronicle Macross II: Lovers Again UN Spacy Mechanic Sheet 06A and B, which provides the 6 kilometer figure in both text form and in a size comparison chart.

Also, I'm not sure who you're claiming didn't distinguish between the titular warship Macross, and those Macross Cannon-class gunships... because the OVA's creators, the show itself, and Palladium's writers certainly did make the distinction. Kind of hard to confuse a 1.2km derelict warship with a 6km long modern weapon of mass destruction made from four Zentradi battleships... especially when both play separate and significant roles in the plot. Palladium even put the stats in separate books. Their coverage of Macross Cannon-class gunships, inaccurate though it was, was in Deck Plans Vol.1, while the SDF-1 Macross got covered in Deck Plans Vol.3.

It might be advisable for you to check your facts before you post.

and jaymz i found your ship stats... I'm not sure they are accurate but i don't really think it matters.. the point is the UN Zent fleet could Smash the hell out of the invid.

jaymz's ship stats are considerably more accurate to Macross II's official material than Palladium's are... probably because they're based principally upon official Japanese Macross materials, which are a great deal easier to come by in English now than when Palladium wrote these books.

[Seto Kaiba]

well, i concede i don't have that book. or knew it existed.

I get the feeling that's about to become a theme, if I have to keep correcting you every post...

but .. I think the 6km figure makes sense...I think DP9 Forgot to include the length of the Arms in the ship's stats.infact, they were probably just measuring the non Arm Portion of the ship..

To be honest, it's not really open to debate. That the Macross Cannon-class ships are 6,000m long in cruiser mode is an absolute, canon fact direct from the show's creators. Unlike Robotech, where things get kinda wooly because of a canon imposed after the fact, Macross II's creative team had this stuff figured out before production started, like any professional anime production team worth its salt would.

I suspect that the mistaken 488m figure was chosen by Palladium, and Dream Pod 9 had no choice but to roll with it since it had already been published in Sourcebook One. Palladium has a tendency to severely downplay humanity's technology in its Macross and Robotech material, and this was no exception. The UN Spacy's human-designed warships that were featured in Macross II: Lovers Again are, in almost all cases, many times larger than Palladium's stats suggest... those numbers in the RPG tend to be off by at least 3-4x, and the type of ship is usually wrong too*.

* The Herakles is actually a "Large Battleship" in the OSM, and is over 1.2km long. The Gloria is a fleet command battleship and is also over a kilometer long. What the RPG calls a "Corvette" is actually a ~850m long battleship, and the Macross Cannon is, as I've previously indicated, officially 6 kilometers long. The only one where Palladium hit close to the mark was the Rescue Ship, which IIRC they called an Escort Carrier, at around 250m. Every last one of those ships is fold-capable, and armed with weapons pretty much identical to those of their Zentradi counterparts... or sometimes better, like the Macross Cannon-class ships.

as far as the weapons go, I remember there being more or less ...

The Deck Plans books do list some Mardook warships as having a few more gun turrets than their UN Spacy Zentradi forces counterparts... but the actual stats for the guns themselves are identical, regardless of which faction the ship belongs to.

in the OSM they don't even List half the zent fleet that they listed as being us spacy. the Zent flag ships they showed being blown were rebel zents.

What the hell are you talking about? I have literally no idea where you're getting this nonsense.

The main Macross universe does list the number of Zentradi warships which defected from the Boddole Zer 118th Main Fleet after Ep27 of the original series (roughly 100), but that number doesn't apply to the Macross II timeline, which is an entirely separate alternate continuity that treats Macross: Do You Remember Love? as the correct depiction of the space war one conflict. The official Macross II setting material indicates that the UN Spacy's Zentradi warships come from ships that defected to the UN Forces in 2010, as well as those that surrendered or were captured during various minor and major conflicts with the Zentradi over the next 82 years. The UN Spacy's fleet contains Zentradi warships from various minor branch fleets and rogue forces, as well as the Boddole Zer, Neld, Burado, and unnamed 2054 main fleet.

Also... US Spacy? Where are you getting THAT?

also, not to nitpick but in the OSM any ValkII except the earthbound valks could link to squires, and the SAP could link to six of them

Um... No. Again, I have to wonder where you're coming up with this stuff, because the OSM says nothing like that.

Firstly... "Valkyrie II" is not a general term. It's only the specific name of the original VF-2 and the space-optimized VF-2SS derivative model.

Second... what you're asserting here has absolutely no basis in fact whatsoever. In actual fact, the Macross II OSM does not specify the maximum number of "Squire" bits that can accompany the VF-2SS at any one time, though what's shown in the series is a maximum of FIVE. Also, the ONLY VF in Macross II that is able to command "Squire" bits is the VF-2SS Valkyrie II, and only when equipped with its Super Armed Pack. At no point has the OSM ever stated, suggested, implied, or otherwise given any indication that any fighter other than the VF-2SS Valkyrie II w/ Super Armed Pack is able to operate units of Squire bits.

[bielmic]

The left-over Zentradi forces came around every few years and died when they played some terrible 80's pop music...

Hey!

....it's actuallt terrible 90's jpop.

I gave the whole macross 2 into robotech some thought and just came up with a simple conversion during the first Rpg era. I just figured that the Ref would upgrade older fighters like the Vf-1 instead of mothballing them and incorporated the macross2 stats as the upgraded variants of the originals for my old Ref campaign.

[jaymz]

and jaymz i found your ship stats... I'm not sure they are accurate but i don't really think it matters.. the point is the UN Zent fleet could Smash the hell out of the invid.

The stats are as accurate as possible with what information I have dug up which is significantly more accurate than Palladium has managed IMNSHO

Also - which ships? the ones on my personal forum? Those are in need of an update/upgrade actually....

[jaymz]

the Deck plans give UN spacy spec'd zentraedi ships. in the OSM they do not actually List or state that they use the zentraedi ships at all. they show zent ships as being space rogues, and more or less the rpg decided that the un spacy had kept many of the full size zent vessels and added valkyries to all of them

You did happen to notice the Zentraedi ships in use and being lead by earth ships both over the moon (lead by the Gloria) and in the earlier battles as well as later when the Mardook assault the earth with Zentraedi ships all around hte Macross Cannons right? That seems pretty definitive right there that they are not "rogue" Zentraedi but part of the earth's defensive fleet....in fact IIRC the first time Fairy Squadron launches (part 1 of the OVA as I recall) they launched from a Zentraedi ship.

[jaymz]

Right... but in many other sources, they do not include zentraedi ships as being part of the UN spacy forces.
there is a Marduk battleship and flag ship.. and then the zentran ones. and the zentran ones stat'd out are all un spacy spec'd.

Just what other "many" sources are you referring too? Pretty much all post original Macross sources show and/or describe Zentraedi ships being absorbed into the earth forces along with the Znetraedi on them....

Also of COURSE the "Zentraedi" ships a UNS modified.....they aren't fighting "true" Zentraedi but Mardook descended Zentraedi thus the similarity of Mardook ships to Zentraedi ones. They say right IN the OVA the last Zentraedi attack was 10 years prior so I am really not sure where you are getting all this "the Zentraedi ships aren't part of the earth forces" angle.


Back to the original topic however...

Mac II VFs would make good next gen fighter as well. Post Protoculture you just have to say the powerplants could not be made small enough thus the increase in size of the VFs themselves to accommodate the powerplants needed. The ships themselves could have be both new construction (The Heracles/Command Ship) could be a new model SDF while he others could battleships etc.

[Seto Kaiba]

Okay Rappanui, it's time for a candid comment from me. It's said that when one finds oneself at the bottom of a hole, the first thing one should do is stop digging. Please, for all our sakes, stop digging to China already, would you? It's obvious to pretty much everybody by now that you've never laid eyes on any of the Macross II OSM, and with the claims you're making it's starting to sound like you've never seen Macross II or read the RPG books either. Give it up, bucko. You're not fooling anyone.

the Deck plans give UN spacy spec'd zentraedi ships. in the OSM they do not actually List or state that they use the zentraedi ships at all.

Case in point, a patently false statement that anyone who's actually seen the Macross II OVA can spot.

In actual fact, the Macross II OSM explicitly confirms that the UN Spacy makes rather extensive use of Zentradi ships in its forces... by converting them to accommodate Variable Fighters and miclone crews as an addition to their regular giant Zentradi crews, by reusing fleet command battleship hulls to build the Macross Cannon gunships, and by using wrecked Zentradi ships as prefab foundations for housing areas in the rebuilt Macross City. There's also a fair bit about how Britai's forces fared as part of the UN Spacy, and how other Zentradi fleets were absorbed after their defeat.

Never mind that the series shows us these Zentradi ships bear UN Spacy kites on their hulls, launch VF-2SS Valkyrie II's and Squires, Nexx's Metal Siren launches from a Thuverl Salan-class battleship, we see no shortage of 'em parked on the moon, with their giant crews in UN Spacy uniform in attendance at the Moon Festival concert... and so on.

http://www.macross2.net/temp/vlcsnap-20 ... 25s227.png
http://www.macross2.net/temp/vlcsnap-20 ... 56s167.png

You can clearly see the UN Forces insignia on their hulls in the animation... the latter shot is the ship which launched Sylvie's Faerie Team in Ep1.

they show zent ships as being space rogues, and more or less the rpg decided that the un spacy had kept many of the full size zent vessels and added valkyries to all of them

Have you ever actually seen Macross II? Because with comments like that, I'm guessing the answer is "No". It's pretty obvious these Zentradi ships are not rogues, because they have large, friendly UN markings stenciled on their hulls, they launch Variable Fighters, and when we see their crews in the episode "Festival" they're wearing UN Forces uniforms.

Seriously, where are you coming up with this trash?

as far as Macross II is concerned the entire Space valk fleet can use squires. you see them use it extensively in the space battles (As only They only show ONE SAP in the whole series)

... yeah, you haven't actually seen the series. Throughout the entire OVA, we only see five VF-2SS Valkyrie II's without their Super Armed Packs... the one in the eyecatch, and Sylvie's Faerie Team during the airshow they conduct for the Moon Festival. Every other scene with a VF-2SS in the series has it equipped with the Super Armed Pack. EVERY LAST ONE.

mind you i'm only refering the macross entertainment bible... which generally does not give sizes for anything

Sorry, but I'm calling BS... because it's so painfully obvious that you're not. Tell you what... tell us which one of the Macross Entertainment Bible books you're referencing. There are four. Cite page numbers for the claims you're making too... because I happen to have multiple copies of all four books, and I will know it if you lie.

(Here's a hint, I already know you're lying... I translated these books YEARS ago.)

Right... but in many other sources, they do not include zentraedi ships as being part of the UN spacy forces.

That's patently untrue... even going back as far as Macross: Perfect Memory for the original series, it has ALWAYS been mentioned that the UN Spacy has a large number of Zentradi ships in its forces. We see them VERY often... in Macross 2036, Macross: Eternal Love Song, Macross II: Lovers Again, Macross 7, Macross Frontier, and plenty of other titles besides.

Just what other "many" sources are you referring too? [...]

Ones that don't actually exist, I expect... because otherwise the creators of the DYRLverse and the primary Macross universe clearly haven't gotten the memo, what with Zentradi ships shown as part of the first colony fleet in Macross: Flashback 2012, the flagship of the UN Spacy fleet in Macross II prequel Macross 2036, the backbone of the entire UN Spacy in Macross II: Lovers Again, as updated and modernized escorts for the Macross-5 fleet in Macross 7, and as the entire fleet taskforce for the 33rd New UN Spacy Marines in Macross Frontier.

Mac II VFs would make good next gen fighter as well. Post Protoculture you just have to say the powerplants could not be made small enough thus the increase in size of the VFs themselves to accommodate the powerplants needed.

Considering the UEEF's newfound love of railguns in RTSC, you could pass the VF-2SS and other Macross II VFs off as post-2044 new developments... a Gamma fighter and so on, since they all have railguns for gunpods and the Valkyrie II's big cannon is an anti-ship railgun.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Considering the UEEF's newfound love of railguns in RTSC,

The RPG has them being in love with them since 1999... since the SDF-1 has them, as do the tri-stars.... its not a new love, its a love that keeps getting smaller....

[Seto Kaiba]

Considering the UEEF's newfound love of railguns in RTSC,

The RPG has them being in love with them since 1999... since the SDF-1 has them, as do the tri-stars.... its not a new love, its a love that keeps getting smaller....

True! They do love their railguns as capital ship weapons... the part that's "newfound" is their affectation for mounting them on their combat mecha instead of just warships. (Curiously enough, the UN Forces abandoned the railgun as a starship weapon in the DYRLverse... opting for beam spam on an epic scale.)

[Colonel Wolfe]

Considering the UEEF's newfound love of railguns in RTSC,

The RPG has them being in love with them since 1999... since the SDF-1 has them, as do the tri-stars.... its not a new love, its a love that keeps getting smaller....

True! They do love their railguns as capital ship weapons... the part that's "newfound" is their affectation for mounting them on their combat mecha instead of just warships. (Curiously enough, the UN Forces abandoned the railgun as a starship weapon in the DYRLverse... opting for beam spam on an epic scale.)

sadly, They decided not to include them on the UEEF Cap-ships.

[ShadowLogan]

Have you ever actually seen Macross II? Because with comments like that, I'm guessing the answer is "No". It's pretty obvious these Zentradi ships are not rogues, because they have large, friendly UN markings stenciled on their hulls, they launch Variable Fighters, and when we see their crews in the episode "Festival" they're wearing UN Forces uniforms.

1st I agree that the Zentraedi ships seen in the OVA/Movie are UN Spacy affiliated.

However, IIRC they do mention dealing with new waves of Zentraedi every 10years or so in dialogue (I'm pretty sure such a statement is also in the RPG). Not the same as seeing these "Rogue" Zentraedi ships, but they are said to exist (just like the DoZ and Space Pirates in RT).

Considering the UEEF's newfound love of railguns in RTSC, you could pass the VF-2SS and other Macross II VFs off as post-2044 new developments... a Gamma fighter and so on, since they all have railguns for gunpods and the Valkyrie II's big cannon is an anti-ship railgun.

I don't think the M2 VFs fit the post-2044 period, they would mostly fit in as alternate models for the existing VF-1 in the 2000s, maybe even into the 2010s as a stop gap solution while waiting the new mecha in development (VF-8, VFA-6, VF-X-5) given the limited changes that appear to have been done to the basic airframe on the VF-2/1MS.

So far though the UEEF's love of railguns seems to extend only to use by infantry forces (Cyclone/Silverback) and not full sized VFs or other mecha. Though it wouldn't be hard to see a gunpod for the larger mecha.

[jaymz]

Rappa - no offense but your "sources" are just plain wrong.

Furthermore citing the macross bible book when you cannot actually read what the books has written in it does not make it source but just a book with some nice pictures in it.

Not sure your "sources" got THEIR information but they are way off base

[Seto Kaiba]

Macross Entertainment bible 51 - Macross II lovers again, [...]

Well, you failed the trick question part of the exam... there's no such thing as a Macross Entertainment Bible. Those books are Bandai Entertainment Bibles. Entertainment Bible 51 does indeed feature some art from the Macross II: Lovers Again OVA, but its selection is fairly sparse and light on detail.

with spamy pages of japanese i don't read.

So... let me get this straight. You can't read Japanese, and you don't have any actual access to the original source material... but you somehow know what that original source material says? Uh-huh. Even if what you were saying didn't directly and obviously contradict the anime itself and every OSM publication out there, you will be still be reeking of the BS you're dispensing here.

Seriously man, give it up. Everybody can tell you're lying.

I'm referring to Web sources - they do NOT list UN spacy Zentraedi fleet as part of the Macross II fleet.

Assuming these web sources actually exist, and aren't just figments of your imagination, there's a simple and straightforward explanation. Whatever "web source" you're so strenuously trying to avoid actually citing was either incomplete, incorrect, or both.

I'm well aware of the zentraedi in the later macross series, but I am referring to ships from M2 only
and I've seen Macross II lots of times ,I just don't pay attention to ships since they don't appear much longer then a few SECONDS on screen.

The fun part here is that the people reading this thread don't even have to see the OVA to know that's a lie.

Even just from the screen captures in the Deck Plans books, it's bloody obvious that the UN Spacy fleet has many hundreds of Zentradi warships in it. The animation itself doesn't skimp on showing that the UN Spacy's fleet is MOSTLY Zentradi ships... they outnumber the human-built ones at least five to one. Hell, when they have a procession of the 12th Defense Fleet in the episode "Festival", the Gloria is the ONLY ship there that ISN'T Zentradi in origin. They're not a "blink and you'll miss it" affair, they're EVERYWHERE and show up quite often.

You clearly have not seen Macross II, despite your claims to the contrary.

The SAP isn't shown every scene with squires, infact they only show it about twice. The metal siren had more screen time.

I think I know the cause of your confusion here, but it just draws a massive line under the fact that you have no bloody idea what you're talking about. If you actually had a copy of Entertainment Bible 51, or even if you had read the RPG book, you would know that the "Super Armed Pack" (SAP) is the standard FAST pack which every single Valkyrie II is fitted with. It's right there, on pages 5 and 99 of EB51, and page 56 of the M2 RPG core book. The only times we ever see a VF-2SS without its Super Armed Pack are in the OP, the eyecatch, and the four brightly colored VF-2SS units that participating (unarmed) in the Moon Festival airshow.

You're probably confusing the stock Super Armed Pack with the "Nexx Custom" version that the RPG calls the "SAP Special", which sacrifices the four micro-missile ports on its right leg pack for a custom heavy gun pod.

The only VF ever shown to operate the "Squire" bits in Macross II is the VF-2SS w/ SAP.

in the rpg- ALL the space valks can use it. the earthbound valks can not for Obvious reasons (Ion drives do not fly in atmosphere)

Sorry, but this is wrong too. The RPG does not say that any space-use VF can use Squires. What it says in the short on page 65 is that the Squires can be used with the VF-2SS (which the RPG refers to as a "Valkyrie Space Fighter"), VF-2SS w/ SAP, and VF-2SS w/ SAP Special. It does not say that the VF-XX, or the Metal Siren can use the bits.

Furthermore, at no point does the Squire entry on page 65 say that Squires cannot be used in atmosphere.

Lastly, nothing in Macross uses an "ion drive"... not even the Squire. The RPG doesn't identify its main engine, but the OSM does.

and the first fight the UN spacy loses to the marduk shows Zent Ships in them as well.

Yes, it does... but you'll notice that the Mardook fleet's Zentradi ships are not just helpfully colored blue, not green, to set them apart, they also have design features unique to the Mardook which do not appear on the standard Zentradi ships the UN Spacy (like dorsal towers and spiked prows), as well as some different styling for their outer hulls. They're very distinctive and easy to tell apart from the regular Zentradi ships which the UN Spacy uses in their fleet.

Rappa - no offense but your "sources" are just plain wrong.

And the sources he's actually cited don't say what he claims they do... I might be one of the few who could check the Japanese publications, but everyone can check the M2 RPG and see he's full of it.

[Seto Kaiba]

1st I agree that the Zentraedi ships seen in the OVA/Movie are UN Spacy affiliated. [...]

It'd be kind of hard to argue otherwise, what with the great big UN Forces insignia and such...

However, IIRC they do mention dealing with new waves of Zentraedi every 10years or so in dialogue (I'm pretty sure such a statement is also in the RPG).

Indeed they do... Hibiki mentions that seeing the UN Spacy repulse the last Zentradi attack 10 years previous (in 2082, per the official timeline) was what inspired him to become a reporter, and the UN Spacy misidentifies the Mardook ships as another rogue Zentradi fleet because of their structural similarity to Zentradi ships. The backstory material in the official chronology does mention (small) rogue Zentradi fleets bumping into the Solar system's defenses every decade or so, though many are scattered remnants of the Boddole Zer main fleet or other scouting elements. Conflicts with larger, main fleets have been featured very prominently in titles from the Macross II alternate universe timeline... most notably in Macross 2036 and Macross: Eternal Love Song. Sukehiro Tomita's novelizations also talk about the 2054 main fleet (not named) that could be arguably called the second space war. (That conflict lasted the better part of a year, instead of just weeks).

I don't think the M2 VFs fit the post-2044 period, they would mostly fit in as alternate models for the existing VF-1 in the 2000s, maybe even into the 2010s as a stop gap solution while waiting the new mecha in development (VF-8, VFA-6, VF-X-5) given the limited changes that appear to have been done to the basic airframe on the VF-2/1MS.

Er... you might want to review the actual art there. While the VF-2SS is outwardly similar to the VF-1, there isn't much commonality otherwise. Its transformation is radically different, its engine configuration and FAST pack setup is a pretty radical departure from the VF-1's norm as well. With greater firepower than the Alpha, greater speed, better MDC in its standard configuration, and so on... it would make the Alpha's existence an uncomfortable step down if the VF-2SS was its predecessor rather than its successor. If one wanted to, it wouldn't be hard to draw a connection between the Valkyrie II's four-engine configuration and the Alpha's...

The Metal Siren is so radically different from the VF-1 that any connection there is tenuous at best.

[glitterboy2098]

so, in summary and in answer to the OP's post..

the Macross II RPG is a decent source of material to augment the 2nd edition robotech RPG. the only real changes that need ot be made are in terms of altering the fluff (story and background) to fit into the robotech setting, and changing the power sources to fit the 2nd ed robotech RPG's material. (protoculture or SLMH fusion). in general the material works better as mecha and ships developed in the late 2030's or in the 2040's.

however if used as a crossover from the macross II setting, the macross II RPG has many flaws which would need to be addressed, mostly in that the RPG's material does not accurately match the source shows developmental material that has been released since the RPG's publishing.

[glitterboy2098]

Yes. that's it exactly. (to match the upgrades, as said, +50% mdc, x2 dmg on most weapons, Railguns need a x 4 upgrade to match that they are indeed better then the 55mm Railgun )
and the default power source is fusion or nuclear (they list the outputs in horse power in the rpg)

actually, the only thing that needs to be changed is powersource. the macross II rpg's MDC values and weapons damage values fall within the range used in the 2nd ed robotech RPG. ultimately, game balance overcomes any personal subjective opinions about the relative nature of the technologies involved.

[Seto Kaiba]

i was referring to such sites such as Gundam sites mechahq which again, DOES NOT LIST ZENTRAEDI SHIPS as part of the UN Spacy fleet. [...]

Well, there's your problem... MAHQ is a very bare-bones website when it comes to its mecha coverage, it's more useful for episode summaries than anything else. They also misidentify some of the weapons on the Macross II VFs, and there's some other errors in there besides. Based on the specific errors made, MAHQ's Macross II coverage isn't coming from OSM sources... it's copied from a back issue of the English language magazine Mecha Press, which contains a great many errors and unfounded assumptions. I've got a copy.

i've seen the damn ova several times.

Your comments here don't bear that out. I'd recommend a rewatch. But then I love that show, so I'd recommend a rewatch for just about anything.

I did Miss the bit about SAP being the STandard armament for Valks, but being a space valkyrie, there's no reason at all they could not put squires on vFXXs and Metal Sirens.

Dunno how... it's so rare to see a VF-2SS without it that people were a bit confused when the 1/250 commemorative VF collection's VF-2SS was its "naked" configuration rather than with its standard Super Armed Pack.

As far as why they couldn't put Squires on the VF-XX Zentradi Valkyrie or VA-1SS Metal Siren... the first reason, from the OSM, is because the Squire bits are connected to the enlarged communications pod on the Super Armed Pack, so even a "naked" VF-2SS wouldn't be able to control them. That system isn't present on the older VF-XX, and the newer VA-1SS. RAW-wise, the specific wording used indicates that they mean the VF-2SS and up-armored versions of same. They don't say "Space Valkyrie", they say "Valkyrie space fighter", which is what they address the VF-2SS as earlier on.

infact, if the metal siren is so limited, just how the hell did one blow up a Marduk Cruiser with just it's onboard weapons?

There's a grand mystery... the effect that caused the Mardook battleship to blow up from the inside is some kind of energy wave, but that system isn't listed among the Metal Siren's weapons in its OSM coverage, and was also left out of the RPG's stats. I could offer a theory, based on canon Macross sources, but it would only be the most likely theory within the known technical base of the setting.

now quit being insulting next you'll be attacking people for not using T'zentradi spelling because that appeared in a comic.

Get your facts straight and don't make claims you can't back up, then people won't call you on it.

Incidentally, that ain't a Macross spelling you've got there... that's from the Robotech novels, which means it's actually not Robotech either (according to HG). Macross has used two different spellings officially... "Zentradi" and "Zjentohlauedy", the former being the one that's commonly used, the latter and more torturous one being the version written (in Zentradi characters) on the Zentradi Army's side of the big table at the truce announcement in Macross: Do You Remember Love?.

[Seto Kaiba]

the Macross II RPG is a decent source of material to augment the 2nd edition robotech RPG. the only real changes that need ot be made are in terms of altering the fluff (story and background) to fit into the robotech setting, and changing the power sources to fit the 2nd ed robotech RPG's material. (protoculture or SLMH fusion). in general the material works better as mecha and ships developed in the late 2030's or in the 2040's.

I agree regarding the part of the RT setting it's the best fit for, but I think that it would be best to boost the Valkyrie II's main body MDC by about 25-30% (bringing it up into the 400s) for compatibility with the RTSC-era mecha. I'd also advise that the Super Armed Pack's segments be treated as separate areas instead of boosting the local armor, like was done for the VF-1's FAST pack in RT2E's Macross Saga source book. That should make it much fairer, for importing into RT2E. I'd adopt the RT2E missile set, but either keep the M2 rule that all missiles are guided, or switch the VF-2SS from mini to SRM ordinance, and double the gun pod damage, and maybe replace the existing head gun stat with the standard coaxial laser rules. Pretty much otherwise give it the same spec and bonuses as the VF-1.

however if used as a crossover from the macross II setting, the macross II RPG has many flaws which would need to be addressed, mostly in that the RPG's material does not accurately match the source shows developmental material that has been released since the RPG's publishing.

And how! But to get to OSM territory stats wise, take the VF-1's RT2E stats and pretty much double everything weapons and MDC related, and triple the speeds.

[Colonel Wolfe]

now quit being insulting next you'll be attacking people for not using T'zentradi spelling because that appeared in a comic.

IDK, no one is silly enough to do that... that spelling was never canon.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Oh yeah? Check the boards here 3 years ago, that was exactly what was going on!

ok, nvm, someone is silly enough to, but that particular Fanatic is a Novels fan, and I'm sure you can find a you-tube video of him assaulting Tommy Yune, so don't take it seriously...

[jaymz]

Rappa - no offense but your "sources" are just plain wrong.

Furthermore citing the macross bible book when you cannot actually read what the books has written in it does not make it source but just a book with some nice pictures in it.

Not sure your "sources" got THEIR information but they are way off base

i was referring to such sites such as Gundam sites mechahq which again, DOES NOT LIST ZENTRAEDI SHIPS as part of the UN Spacy fleet.
They mention it offhand, but do NOT LIST THEM. They got lazy perhaps, they do not mention any diffirences between the various series zentraedi.
i've seen the damn ova several times.
I did Miss the bit about SAP being the STandard armament for Valks, but being a space valkyrie, there's no reason at all they could not put squires on vFXXs and Metal Sirens.

infact, if the metal siren is so limited, just how the hell did one blow up a Marduk Cruiser with just it's onboard weapons?

now quit being insulting next you'll be attacking people for not using T'zentradi spelling because that appeared in a comic.

If MechaHQ was your source then you haven't been paying close attention. That site is ok but no where near as detailed as it could be. They DO list the Zentraedi separately but guess what, if you WATCH the anime the only forces USING standard Zentraedi ships ARE the earth forces. Not rogues and not independent fleets but Earth. The Mardook ships as Seto already pointed out do have cosmetic differences to tell them apart.

Furthermore I wasn't the one that pointed out the SAP information or that the VF-XX and MS cannot use the Squires (they can't) that was Seto so to segway into the next point, I DIDN'T insult you. I merely am pointing out that your "sources" are lacking to the point of making look very uninformed. It is YOU who continues to use these sources as "proof" when even these sources don't have the information to say what you say just what they extrapolated. I've checked Mecha HQ on many occasions. It;s one of my tertiary sources for my research of Macross Material (and by extension Robotech to some degree), and to take them as such a high source as you have is just......well THAT's insulting considering how bare many of their other sections are for detailed information. So do me a favour if you want to rebut me make sure you rebut me and not someone else thinking it was me.

Lastly - IF you watch the OVA you see HOW the MS took out a ship. It is easily seen that some form of energy wave is emanated from the MS that runs through the ship causing to bubble and bulge before exploding. You can't miss it. Also if you paid attention you'll notice the MS didn't NEED to use squires. It did quite well onj it's own. As for the VF-XX.....it is seen ONCE in the entire OVA so other than printed materials saying otherwise there is likely no reason for IT to use squires either. It only stands to reason that the mainline fighter is the one using them not limited production (MS) and was is essentially special forces units (XX)

Edit - After checking the Mecha HQ site again.....Dude the Zentraedi ships are UNDER THE UN SPACY AS VEHICLES AND SUPPORT UNITS. Do you REALLY need it listed in their entries as being part of the UN Spacy when they are ALREADY listed under the UN Spacy on the main page FOR the OVA?

[Shawn Merrow]

i was referring to such sites such as Gundam sites mechahq which again, DOES NOT LIST ZENTRAEDI SHIPS as part of the UN Spacy fleet.

MAHQ - Super Dimension Fortress Macross II: Lovers, Again

U.N. Spacy

Mecha
AGA-1JF
Defender EX
Giant Monster
Phalanx Custom
Tomahawk II
VF-1MS Metal Siren
VF-2JA Icarus
VF-2SS Valkyrie II
VF-XX Zentran Valkyrie

Vehicles and Support Units
Corvette
Frigate
Gloria
Heracles
Macross Cannon
Macross class (Macross)
Nupetiet-Vergnitzs class
Picket
Quiltra-Queleual class
RC-4E Rabbit
Rescue Ship
Thuverl-Salan class

Put the Zentradi ships classes in bold for you.